Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Dear Sreenadhji, I am glad to hear that. I would feel highly rewarded by joining this group if discussions in this group tread into such conventional but neglected areas of Jyotish. Regards, P.N.Razdan , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Razdan ji, > As you correctly stated - the vedic system of astrology was almost > totally based on Nakshatras. There are many proofs that suggests that > in that ancient past, the Vedic people depended more on 'Nakshatra > Lagna' (A Nakshatra was considered as a Lagna) and 'Combination of > planets in Nakshatras' (A planetary combination was considered a > combination - only if it was within a Nakshatra span) etc. Yes, > Stellar astrology was a subject of much importance in the Vedic > period, and not much research went into the same yet - but here in > this group, we will try putting some systematic effort in to the same > later as the time permits. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " pnrazdan " > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mr Nair, > > Thanks for your post. > > While I too am hesitant to accept this as an explanation and propose > > to study it further, I am constrained to consider this possibility > > since there is no other explanation that is forthcoming based on the > > conventional Parasari knowledge. > > I have also a lurking doubt that we modern readers of Jyotish are > > making very little use of Nakshatras than our predecessors used to make. > > Regards, > > P.N.Razdan > > > > , " Balagurusurya " > > <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Razdan, > > > > > > Ref-Your posting in tlist msg No -3425 > > > > > > You say placement of Ju in the star of U. Bhadrapadha lorded by > Saturn > > > > > > Your conjecure this is a conventional explanation for the > cause of > > > Heart attack, is off the fact . > > > > > > The misconceived Planetary lordships , that is , equating Vimsottari > > > Dasha lords as Nakshatradhipathis (???) is of recent origin , to be > > > precise , during the turn of last century ; made popular by > > > Gopalakrishna Rao through his " Meena's Nadi " that later became the > > > genesis of KP , KB etc etc > > > > > > There is absolutely No evidence to prove that ancients Masters were > > > using planetary lordships to give prediction. Sreenadh says in " Prasna > > > Marga " a sloka is there , that could be streched to support > planetary > > > lordships.I have to disagree because if that is the case , in kerala > > > ,from where PM orginated , except a countable few who follows KP no > > > traditional astrologers well versed in PM , uses planetary lordship to > > > give prediction. > > > > > > The point is if you give credence to stellar lordship ,then it > won't be > > > in fitness of things to call it , a conventional explanation. > > > > > > Best > > > > > > M Nair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > I appreciate your desire to see my chart from all angles. I > thank you > > > > profusely for this effort. > > > > Like others, you have also taken yet another way to explain this > event > > > > i.e through a new Ayanmasha. While there are several who praise > > > > Chandra Hari's AM as it relates spirituality to jyotish, we have the > > > > practice of following the Lahiri AM in our daily work. Still I > did try > > > > to see how this AM fits into my chart for other events. Sadly the > > > > results were not helpful. For example I married my son in Nov. 2001 > > > > and the dasa it depicts at that time is Ju-Ve-Sat. Both Venus and > > > > Saturn would not be helpful in this good event. Again I got my > > > > promotion in office in Nov 1996 and the dasa it depicts is > Ju-Sat-Jup. > > > > A debilitated Sat would never have allowed this to happen.And if we > > > > take Lahiri AM into consideration, the dasas were Jup-Sun-Rah and > > > > Jup-Mer-Mars respectively, which nicely corroborate the two events. > > > > > > > > Even if we take your argument of Jup-Ra-Ve leading to the problem, > > > > this combination with a strong Jup would not have allowed this > > > > calamity to happen. You try to explain this by the Dasa Sandhi but I > > > > donot to the view that Jup dasa sandhi would take this > > > > benefic planet to this low level. Besides Sun the Karaka for > heart has > > > > been my greatest asset in life. As you would have marked above > it has > > > > given me nice things in its AD and therefore I to the > theory > > > > that Sun is best in an Upchaya house and not functionally malefic in > > > > my chart. > > > > Out of the many responses one that has struck me as the simplest and > > > > conventional interpretation is the linkage of Jupiter with > Uttarbhadra > > > > planet that is lorded by Saturn. This is something I propose to > study > > > > in the days to come and see if Jupiter in this nakshatra was > supposed > > > > to succumb to Saturnian influence in its dasa period. But there is a > > > > catch here too. Covnentionally again Sat in its own AD would not > have > > > > brought its malefic influence into play. > > > > Sorry for the long mail. > > > > Regards, > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > > I made a small mistake in my previous post (since I was doing it > > > > > from memory and was in office - in my office pc astrolgy softwares > > > > > are not installed). The Vimsottari dasa from moon running at the > > > time > > > > > of the event was Ju-Ra-Ve and not Ju-Ra-Su. But the same too > > > explains > > > > > the event (as discussed in the previous mail), all the other > things > > > > > remains the same. > > > > > You can check the Antar dasa periods etc I mentioned in JHora, > > > > > using True Ayanamsa of Chandra Hari; It is just 46 min more than > > > > > Chitrapaksaha (Lahari) Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > Note: I would like to know your response about the > 'explanation'; Do > > > > > you agree with it or not? Is it satisfactory enough? What do you > > > > > feel? As you know well, such discussion are just part of our (both > > > > > you and me) effort to understand ancient Indian astrology better > > > � > > > > > than to shed light on past or future. > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > > > I am using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari (That is what I always > > > > > use > > > > > > and trust), which is the Ayanamsa proposed by Surya > Sidhanta. The > > > > > > Year length used is 365.2425. Based on the above we will discuss > > > > > your > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > Actually I have seen your chart, before itself and half of the > > > > > > planetary position is there in mind (Now I am in office - I will > > > > > give > > > > > > a detailed response later). > > > > > > You had the heart Attack in Ju=>Ra=>Su. Why? As you know well - > > > > > > * Lagna = Sagittarius > > > > > > * Ju in Pisces (in 4th) in own house, with Ju navamsa in Libra > > > > > > * Ra in Libra (in 11th), with Ra navamsa in Capricorn > > > > > > * Ma in Capricorn (in 2nd), with Ma navamsa in Pisces > > > > > > * Sun and Me in 6th in Taurus. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the planetary position - I remember. The following > points > > > > > > should be noted - > > > > > > * In the above planetary position note that there is continuous > > > > > > cyclic relation between 3 planets Ju-Ra-Ma (Note down this antar > > > > > dasa) > > > > > > * Su and Me are in the house of disease, i.e. 6th house. As per > > > > > Moon > > > > > > Longitude at the time of heart attach), the dasa Ju-Ra-Su was > > > > > > running; As per Lagna longitude, the dasa Ju-Ra-Me was running. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now to the question - why the heart attack should happen - > when Ju > > > > > is > > > > > > in 4th in its own house?!!! OK - that is the major doubt. Let us > > > > > > analysis this chart in th simple way as a simple astrologer will > > > do > > > > > > (for sep. 2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > * Ju das is running was running - gave good results, but now the > > > > > Dasa > > > > > > is ending. It is " Dasa Sandhi " Ju Dasa, Ra Antar Dasa. Note that > > > Ju > > > > > > and Ra are in 6-8 axis to each other, a placement never positive > > > > > for > > > > > > the Dasa Antar Dasa lords to give good results. Some thing bad > > > > > could > > > > > > happen, especially related to health/body because Ju is Lagna > > > lord. > > > > > > * Ra is in 11th, aspected by malefic debilitated Sa (Sa is > in 5th, > > > > > > Aries) - but still being in 11th it is ok. But Ra Navamsa is > > > > > falling > > > > > > in 2nd house in that debilitated Saturn's sign itself - this is > > > > > bad. > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if Ra is in 2nd house, do a Mritunjaya > > > Pooja > > > > > > as soon as possible - if the same dasa or Antar Dasa happens. > > > Again > > > > > > the feeling - something bad should happen is emphasized. Sa > is the > > > > > > 2nd (maraka stana) and 3rd (longevity)lord, weak in > debilitation - > > > > > > did this Ra find only the navamsa of that Sa to sit?!! > > > > > > * Su is the natural significator of heart, and is placed in the > > > > > house > > > > > > of disease, i.e. 6th house along with another Maraka Me. Su owns > > > > > one > > > > > > of the body triangles (1-5-9), i.e. 9th. And the event struck. > > > > > > * But why heart?! Su is a significator of a thousand things > - why > > > > > > should be heart at all? In the chart the house indicating heart, > > > > > i.e. > > > > > > 4th house is very strong with Ju in own house - then why heart? > > > > > Hmm.. > > > > > > But not that with Ju dasa ending (4th, heart, came into > play), Ra > > > > > > having strong hold Ju can not be considered strong at this point > > > of > > > > > > time. But this explanation does not seems to be satisfactory. > > > > > > * Is there any indication in the chart that 4th house (heart) is > > > > > weak > > > > > > or that some trouble related to heart will happen at some > point of > > > > > > time? The straight question is what are the planets with a root > > > > > > connection is 4th house? > > > > > > 1) From Lagna (Pisces) = Me (Me's debilitation sign), Ve (Ve's > > > > > > exaltation sign - Note that Ra is supposed to give the > results of > > > > > Ve > > > > > > being placed in Libra), Ju (Ju's own sign) > > > > > > 2) From Aries (Cancer, Kalapurusha Chart)= Ma (Ma's debilitation > > > > > > sign), Ju (Ju's exaltation sign), Mo (Mo's own sign) > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 1st condition, (starting Vimsottari from Moon) note > > > > > that - > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (4th own sign - can indicate heart) > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation sign is > > > > > 4th, > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart) > > > > > > Paryantara = Su (Natural significator of heart) > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 2st condition, (considering Kalapurusha and starting > > > > > > Vimsottari from Lagna) note that - > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (has an exaltation is 4th of Kalapuruasha - can > indicate > > > > > > heart) > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation sign is > > > > > 4th, > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart) > > > > > > Paryantara = Me (Me's debilitation sign is 4th, Pisces; Me is > > > > > placed > > > > > > in 6th, i.e. house of disease - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > > > > But where is Ma? Ma's debilitation sign is Cancer (heart of > > > > > > Kalapurusha); Ma aspects 4th of Kalapurusha - heart; and Ma's > > > > > Navamsa > > > > > > falls in Pisces (4th from lagna) - heart!! Ke navamsa is in > Cancer > > > > > > (heart of Kalapurusha). Result derivation - possibility of a > > > minute > > > > > > hole in heart. Ok! Ra (counter part of Ke) should give this > > > result, > > > > > > and that means in Ju-Ra-Su is proper time for it to show its > > > > > effect! > > > > > > That is what happened. > > > > > > But what about Ma? We noted that there is a cyclic relation > > > > > between > > > > > > Ju-Ra-Ma. That is not a good time. Ma signifies, blood and > > > clotting > > > > > > of blood, and possibly a second problem due to that. You > have good > > > > > > longevity and it is not going to be harmful enough, and life > will > > > > > > continue....I am not trying to make any prediction regarding > > > > > > longevity - but know that there is a long time ahead. But you > > > know, > > > > > > by now that you have to take more care regarding health for > coming > > > > > > March/April 2008. It is Ju-Ra-Ma as per Vimsottari Dasa from > Moon. > > > > > > Now Transit - That we will consider in next mail. I know > > > > > > traditional astrology only - and nothing else. So please rest > > > > > assured > > > > > > that this analysis is based on traditional astrology only. > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to > > > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely > on the > > > > > > basis > > > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing > well now > > > > > > after > > > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > > > > > event > > > > > > as > > > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > (Date of > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and > > > > > Sun > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. > There is > > > > > no > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > > > responses > > > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a > mockery of > > > > > the > > > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as > > > to > > > > > > why > > > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological > > > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on > > > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Dear Mr. Kaul, Your efforts at debunking Vedic astrology is misdirected energy. Our forefathers without any aid of modern gadgets had the power to exactly calculate planetary movements up to second decimal place and eclipses to the last second. It is easy to act out of sheer ignorance. Even best of doctors are sometimes clueless why a patient suffers from particular symptoms. why? Is it because medical field is not oK? It is just that some cases are obvious and some others are obscure. For nayone to be fit to comment on a subject he must be knowledgeable in that field. Even then his comments may betray his ignorance or sheer bias. regards,udupaOn 10/12/07, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote: WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: Dear Razdan Sahib, Namaskar! I was amused to see your following post in forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so called Vedic astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart attack in your chart! Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would not have been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on repeating Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic astrology " these days! Regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan@> wrote: I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on the basis of ancient knowledge. I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well now after angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this event as my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. (Date of birth 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India 74E48,34N05) Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and Sun the Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There is no bad aspect to the fourth house. I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen responses interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery of the ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as to why has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on predictive aspect of Jyotish. --- End forwarded message --- Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest fraud on the Vedas! Dear Mr Kaul, Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and culture. The nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. There are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. New software has been developed which has demystified the knowledge greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the subject.If the Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the subject for fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government nor to any individual's whims. Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to prove VA theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for fame even through wrong reasons. If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to mark your posts as Spam. Regards, P.N.Razdan Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: Sir Thank you very much, In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a Tamil Hindu forum where it is creating ripples. i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our outlook which differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Namaste Razdan (Date of birth 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India 74E48,34N05) For what it is worth re:Heart attack I look at 5th Hse, 5th Lord, Sun and Leo sign affliction …. In your chart 5th Hse is heavily afflicted by Ketu, Debilitated Sat (2nd/3rd Lord), Ven (6th/11th Lord), Rahu and Exalted Mars (5th/12th Lord). 5th Lord (Mars) afflicted by Sat. Sun is placed in 6th Hse whilst Leo is afflicted by Exalted Mars ….. Looking at the Vim Dasa running for 1st Sept ‘2007 using JHora it is Jup/Rahu/Mars/Moon/Mer/Ven …. From the Dasa running it is obvious that something sudden will happen to your Health – more so re:Heart Attack due to Rahu’s & Mars direct involvement. Note Jup is Asc Lord hence will impact you directly and period involves All Disease impacting Houses/Lords eg 6th/11th (Ven,Sun,Mer & Rahu), 2nd (Sat & Mars), 7th (Mer), 8th (Moon in Asc), 12th (Mars in 2nd) ….. Hoping this helps you in answering your query (?) …….. Best wishes ….. Jai Sita Ram Ram P.S Re:Tob – what makes you think it was 53 secs past 9:41pm – seems very explicit? Didn’t know anyone in 1939 recorded Tob’s as precisely as this? On Behalf Of prabhat_shcil 13 October 2007 07:09 ancient indian astrology Re: Fwd: My heart attack d/a Mr Kaul is saying somethin which is his personal opinion , and he has given some logic to prove his point , if you have more stronger logic , facts to prove your point please put them on the forum . so at least one person agrees to other . Any open discussion and free flowing of idea only enhances our outlook and perspective of seeing things . If somebody has a heart attack - and there is no indication in his chart about this - i have two view . ( as i have very strong belief in astrology ) 1. His chart is wrong . or 2. We still do not have the capabilty to comprehend various permutation combination planatery influences. regards prabhat mishra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Dear Razdan Sahib, Namaskar! < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is treated by jyotishis> I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how ignorant you are about the real definition of jyotisha! Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating the position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into India only with the advent of the Greeks! It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when actually it is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced by any fraud in the world! To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya Sidhanta was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, he is one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed that planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . Even the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit to their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! These are already in the files section of this forum! Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " With regards, AKK , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Mr Kaul, > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost faith > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is treated > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient teaching in the > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up with > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto in their > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group approach, > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is altogether > absent. > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, broad > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far and that > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we define > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and not the > ancient knowledge. > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > Namaskar! > > I was amused to see your following post in > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so called Vedic > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart attack > > in your chart! > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would not have > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on repeating > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > astrology " these days! > > Regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > , " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on the basis > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well now > > after > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this event as > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. (Date of > > birth > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > 74E48,34N05) > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and Sun > > the > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There is no > > bad > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen responses > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery of the > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as to why > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest fraud on > > the Vedas! > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and culture. The > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. There > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. New > > software has been developed which has demystified the knowledge > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the subject.If the > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the subject for > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government nor to > > any individual's whims. > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to prove VA > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for fame even > > through wrong reasons. > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to mark your > > posts as Spam. > > Regards, > > P.N.Razdan > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a Tamil Hindu > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our outlook > > which > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Shri Haridas Udupa ji, Namaskar! <Our forefathers without any aid of modern gadgets had the power to exactly calculate planetary movements up to second decimal place and eclipses to the last second> Could you kindly give me list of those eclipses, with proofs, that had been recorded correctly prior to the advent of modern astronomy. Regards, AKK , " Haridas Udupa " <ahudupa wrote: > > Dear Mr. Kaul, > Your efforts at debunking Vedic astrology is misdirected energy. Our > forefathers without any aid of modern gadgets had the power to exactly > calculate planetary movements up to second decimal place and eclipses to the > last second. It is easy to act out of sheer ignorance. > Even best of doctors are sometimes clueless why a patient suffers from > particular symptoms. why? Is it because medical field is not oK? It is just > that some cases are obvious and some others are obscure. For nayone to be > fit to comment on a subject he must be knowledgeable in that field. Even > then his comments may betray his ignorance or sheer bias. > regards, > udupa > > > On 10/12/07, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote: > > > > WAVES-Vedic <WAVES-Vedic% 40>, > > " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > Namaskar! > > I was amused to see your following post in > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so called Vedic > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart attack > > in your chart! > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would not have > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on repeating > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > astrology " these days! > > Regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on the basis > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well now > > after > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this event as > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. (Date of > > birth > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > 74E48,34N05) > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and Sun > > the > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There is no > > bad > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen responses > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery of the > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as to why > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest fraud on > > the Vedas! > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and culture. The > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. There > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. New > > software has been developed which has demystified the knowledge > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the subject.If the > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the subject for > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government nor to > > any individual's whims. > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to prove VA > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for fame even > > through wrong reasons. > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to mark your > > posts as Spam. > > Regards, > > P.N.Razdan > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > hinducivilization <hinducivilization% 40>, > > " neelakandanaravindan " > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a Tamil Hindu > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our outlook > > which > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Namaste Sreenadhji and all the esteemed members of the forum, I am glad that the forum has grown and is graced by so many stalwarts in the field. In discussing the chart of heart attack, someone mentioned how third dreshkan was rising and so heart was 4th or 5th house. I always had question about dreshkan and body parts. So if 1st dreshkan is rising then 1house is so and so, the second so and so. If the second dreshkan rises then 1st is .. The question I have is, for a particular native only one of the dreshkan will be rising. So lets say 3rd is rising, Now what happens to the body parts mentioned for 1st or second dreshkan rising. Certainly they do not disappear. I will be interested in knowing the opinions of the esteemed members. Thanks .... On 10/10/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Philip ji,Astrological derivations are NO ULTIMATUM - they are just guidelines only. They may become true or may not be - with an individual with natural intelligence one SHOUDN'T depend too much on astrology and act MEARELY on behalf of that. Astrology is just guidance - just simple guidance without going to too much details. The details are NOT even in the hands of fate. Fate (Deterministic) and Free will (chance) are equally important - actually Free will is more important because - it is what later turns into fate. Without writing an exam you can not pass; without swimming you can not cross the river. Even if you are destined to pass, god will not come to write the exam for you; even if the river is flowing downwards you can swim and cross the river. Examples are thousands.Using astrology as a guidance, along with your actual knowledge and experience - is WISEDepending TOTALLY on astrology, and believing that some thing will come true even without effort - is just FOOLISH Razdan ji is a very knowledgeable individual with much experience and good knowledge of astrology, he must be knowing how to use it better than you and me. So don't worry about the same. Another point is that an analysis of a past event is usually done just to understand and to learn astrology and is usually done between two individuals who DOES KNOW astrology - that is why a clear presentation with Razdan ji who himself is an astrologer. Actually this is not a " reading " at all - and this group does not appreciate reading of consolations within the group. It is just a discussion between to astrologers - who knows how to weigh the derivations; or whether to value them at all! Love,Sreenadh , Philip Miller <pem218 wrote:>> Razdan's question and Sreenadh's reply lead me to make this posting. I apologize in advance that I am so new to Jyotish. Several years ago a Jyotishi gave me a reading in which he said I would be facing cardiac problems in May/June of 2006. Needless to say, the time came and passed and I seemed just fine. Then, on May 9, 2007, quite without prior warning or symptoms, a routine test revealed I needed three angioplasties. (In other words, I dodged the bullet.)> > The same reading predicted severe financial problems during the summer of 2006. This came to pass exactly as the Jyotishi said. > > So how might I reconcile these differences ,especially that one aspect was precisely a full year off?> > If anyone can hjelp shed light, I would be grateful. My details are as follows: 18 February 1945, at Providence RI (USA) [ 41.83N -71.41W] at approximately 16;00> > Many thanks> Philip Miller> > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Namaste Sreenadhji, I had posted this message, somehow it has not appeared on the list so posting again Thanks .... ------- Namaste Sreenadhji and all the esteemed members of the forum, I am glad that the forum has grown and is graced by so many stalwarts in the field. In discussing the chart of heart attack, someone mentioned how third dreshkan was rising and so heart was 4th or 5th house. I always had question about dreshkan and body parts. So if 1st dreshkan is rising then 1house is so and so, the second so and so. If the second dreshkan rises then 1st is .. The question I have is, for a particular native only one of the dreshkan will be rising. So lets say 3rd is rising, Now what happens to the body parts mentioned for 1st or second dreshkan rising. Certainly they do not disappear. I will be interested in knowing the opinions of the esteemed members. Thanks .... On 10/13/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Razdan ji,Yes, truly we intend to do that. We will start with 'Astrology inVatmiki Ramayana'.. A new thread - but expect a lots of blasts -which are usual in such discussions regarding 'conventional but neglected areas' of astrology. But since we are all just inquisitiveseekers of ancient knowledge. I will start a series of articles to prepare the initial ground fordiscussion on that subject (i.e. 'Astrology in Vatmiki Ramayana') - possibly one article per week. Since you are truly interested instellar astrology - please be on my side to defend the attacks thatmay come from all directions regarding this subject - once we stepinto it.. Kaul ji could be the one who is first feel offended and then others will follow the path – and you be in front and I will staybehind… Love and Hugs,Sreenadh , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> I am glad to hear that. I would feel highly rewarded by joining this> group if discussions in this group tread into such conventional but > neglected areas of Jyotish.> Regards,> P.N.Razdan> > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Razdan ji,> > As you correctly stated - the vedic system of astrology was almost > > totally based on Nakshatras. There are many proofs that suggests that> > in that ancient past, the Vedic people depended more on 'Nakshatra> > Lagna' (A Nakshatra was considered as a Lagna) and 'Combination of > > planets in Nakshatras' (A planetary combination was considered a> > combination - only if it was within a Nakshatra span) etc. Yes,> > Stellar astrology was a subject of much importance in the Vedic > > period, and not much research went into the same yet - but here in> > this group, we will try putting some systematic effort in to the same> > later as the time permits. > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Mr Nair,> > > Thanks for your post.> > > While I too am hesitant to accept this as an explanation and propose> > > to study it further, I am constrained to consider this possibility > > > since there is no other explanation that is forthcoming based on the> > > conventional Parasari knowledge.> > > I have also a lurking doubt that we modern readers of Jyotish are > > > making very little use of Nakshatras than our predecessors used to> make.> > > Regards,> > > P.N.Razdan> > > > > > , " Balagurusurya " > > > <balagurusurya@> wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > Razdan,> > > > > > > > Ref-Your posting in tlist msg No -3425> > > > > > > > You say placement of Ju in the star of U. Bhadrapadha lorded by > > Saturn> > > > > > > > Your conjecure this is a conventional explanation for the > > cause of> > > > Heart attack, is off the fact .> > > > > > > > The misconceived Planetary lordships , that is , equating Vimsottari> > > > Dasha lords as Nakshatradhipathis (???) is of recent origin ,> to be> > > > precise , during the turn of last century ; made popular by> > > > Gopalakrishna Rao through his " Meena's Nadi " that later became the > > > > genesis of KP , KB etc etc> > > > > > > > There is absolutely No evidence to prove that ancients Masters were> > > > using planetary lordships to give prediction. Sreenadh says in > " Prasna> > > > Marga " a sloka is there , that could be streched to support > > planetary> > > > lordships.I have to disagree because if that is the case , in kerala> > > > ,from where PM orginated , except a countable few who follows> KP no> > > > traditional astrologers well versed in PM , uses planetary> lordship to> > > > give prediction. > > > > > > > > The point is if you give credence to stellar lordship ,then it> > won't be> > > > in fitness of things to call it , a conventional explanation. > > > > > > > > Best> > > > > > > > M Nair> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > > I appreciate your desire to see my chart from all angles. I > > thank you> > > > > profusely for this effort.> > > > > Like others, you have also taken yet another way to explain this> > event> > > > > i.e through a new Ayanmasha. While there are several who praise> > > > > Chandra Hari's AM as it relates spirituality to jyotish, we> have the> > > > > practice of following the Lahiri AM in our daily work. Still I > > did try> > > > > to see how this AM fits into my chart for other events.Sadly the> > > > > results were not helpful. For example I married my son in Nov.> 2001 > > > > > and the dasa it depicts at that time is Ju-Ve-Sat. BothVenus and> > > > > Saturn would not be helpful in this good event. Again I got my> > > > > promotion in office in Nov 1996 and the dasa it depicts is > > Ju-Sat-Jup.> > > > > A debilitated Sat would never have allowed this to happen.And> if we> > > > > take Lahiri AM into consideration, the dasas wereJup-Sun-Rah and > > > > > Jup-Mer-Mars respectively, which nicely corroborate the two> events.> > > > >> > > > > Even if we take your argument of Jup-Ra-Ve leading to the problem,> > > > > this combination with a strong Jup would not have allowed this> > > > > calamity to happen. You try to explain this by the Dasa Sandhi> but I> > > > > donot to the view that Jup dasa sandhi would take this > > > > > benefic planet to this low level. Besides Sun the Karaka for> > heart has> > > > > been my greatest asset in life. As you would have marked above> > it has > > > > > given me nice things in its AD and therefore I to the> > theory> > > > > that Sun is best in an Upchaya house and not functionally> malefic in > > > > > my chart.> > > > > Out of the many responses one that has struck me as the> simplest and> > > > > conventional interpretation is the linkage of Jupiter with > > Uttarbhadra> > > > > planet that is lorded by Saturn. This is something I propose to> > study> > > > > in the days to come and see if Jupiter in this nakshatra was > > supposed> > > > > to succumb to Saturnian influence in its dasa period. But> there is a> > > > > catch here too. Covnentionally again Sat in its own AD would not > > have> > > > > brought its malefic influence into play.> > > > > Sorry for the long mail.> > > > > Regards,> > > > > P.N.Razdan> > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Razdan ji,> > > > > > I made a small mistake in my previous post (since I wasdoing it> > > > > > from memory and was in office - in my office pc astrolgy > softwares> > > > > > are not installed). The Vimsottari dasa from moon runningat the> > > > time> > > > > > of the event was Ju-Ra-Ve and not Ju-Ra-Su. But the same too > > > > explains> > > > > > the event (as discussed in the previous mail), all the other> > things> > > > > > remains the same.> > > > > > You can check the Antar dasa periods etc I mentioned in JHora, > > > > > > using True Ayanamsa of Chandra Hari; It is just 46 minmore than> > > > > > Chitrapaksaha (Lahari) Ayanamsa.> > > > > >> > > > > > Note: I would like to know your response about the > > 'explanation'; Do> > > > > > you agree with it or not? Is it satisfactory enough? Whatdo you> > > > > > feel? As you know well, such discussion are just part of our > (both> > > > > > you and me) effort to understand ancient Indian astrologybetter> > > > � > > > > > > than to shed light on past or future.> > > > > >> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > >> > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji,> > > > > > > I am using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari (That is what I always> > > > > > use> > > > > > > and trust), which is the Ayanamsa proposed by Surya> > Sidhanta. The> > > > > > > Year length used is 365.2425. Based on the above we will> discuss> > > > > > your> > > > > > > chart.> > > > > > > Actually I have seen your chart, before itself and half of the> > > > > > > planetary position is there in mind (Now I am in office -> I will> > > > > > give> > > > > > > a detailed response later). > > > > > > > You had the heart Attack in Ju=>Ra=>Su. Why? As you know> well -> > > > > > > * Lagna = Sagittarius> > > > > > > * Ju in Pisces (in 4th) in own house, with Ju navamsa in Libra> > > > > > > * Ra in Libra (in 11th), with Ra navamsa in Capricorn> > > > > > > * Ma in Capricorn (in 2nd), with Ma navamsa in Pisces> > > > > > > * Sun and Me in 6th in Taurus. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > This is the planetary position - I remember. The following> > points> > > > > > > should be noted -> > > > > > > * In the above planetary position note that there is > continuous> > > > > > > cyclic relation between 3 planets Ju-Ra-Ma (Note down this> antar> > > > > > dasa)> > > > > > > * Su and Me are in the house of disease, i.e. 6th house.> As per> > > > > > Moon> > > > > > > Longitude at the time of heart attach), the dasaJu-Ra-Su was> > > > > > > running; As per Lagna longitude, the dasa Ju-Ra-Me was > running.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now to the question - why the heart attack should happen -> > when Ju> > > > > > is> > > > > > > in 4th in its own house?!!! OK - that is the major doubt. > Let us> > > > > > > analysis this chart in th simple way as a simple> astrologer will> > > > do> > > > > > > (for sep. 2007).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Ju das is running was running - gave good results, but> now the> > > > > > Dasa> > > > > > > is ending. It is " Dasa Sandhi " Ju Dasa, Ra Antar Dasa. > Note that> > > > Ju> > > > > > > and Ra are in 6-8 axis to each other, a placement never> positive> > > > > > for> > > > > > > the Dasa Antar Dasa lords to give good results. Some thing bad> > > > > > could> > > > > > > happen, especially related to health/body because Ju isLagna> > > > lord.> > > > > > > * Ra is in 11th, aspected by malefic debilitated Sa (Sa is > > in 5th,> > > > > > > Aries) - but still being in 11th it is ok. But Ra Navamsa is> > > > > > falling> > > > > > > in 2nd house in that debilitated Saturn's sign itself - > this is> > > > > > bad.> > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if Ra is in 2nd house, do aMritunjaya> > > > Pooja> > > > > > > as soon as possible - if the same dasa or Antar Dasa happens.> > > > Again> > > > > > > the feeling - something bad should happen is emphasized. Sa> > is the> > > > > > > 2nd (maraka stana) and 3rd (longevity)lord, weak in > > debilitation -> > > > > > > did this Ra find only the navamsa of that Sa to sit?!!> > > > > > > * Su is the natural significator of heart, and is placed> in the > > > > > > house> > > > > > > of disease, i.e. 6th house along with another Maraka Me.> Su owns> > > > > > one> > > > > > > of the body triangles (1-5-9), i.e. 9th. And the eventstruck.> > > > > > > * But why heart?! Su is a significator of a thousand things> > - why> > > > > > > should be heart at all? In the chart the house indicating > heart,> > > > > > i.e.> > > > > > > 4th house is very strong with Ju in own house - then why> heart?> > > > > > Hmm..> > > > > > > But not that with Ju dasa ending (4th, heart, came into > > play), Ra> > > > > > > having strong hold Ju can not be considered strong at this> point> > > > of> > > > > > > time. But this explanation does not seems to be satisfactory.> > > > > > > * Is there any indication in the chart that 4th house> (heart) is> > > > > > weak> > > > > > > or that some trouble related to heart will happen at some > > point of> > > > > > > time? The straight question is what are the planets with a> root> > > > > > > connection is 4th house?> > > > > > > 1) From Lagna (Pisces) = Me (Me's debilitation sign), Ve (Ve's> > > > > > > exaltation sign - Note that Ra is supposed to give the> > results of> > > > > > Ve> > > > > > > being placed in Libra), Ju (Ju's own sign) > > > > > > > 2) From Aries (Cancer, Kalapurusha Chart)= Ma (Ma's> debilitation> > > > > > > sign), Ju (Ju's exaltation sign), Mo (Mo's own sign)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 1st condition, (starting Vimsottari fromMoon) note> > > > > > that -> > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (4th own sign - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltationsign is> > > > > > 4th,> > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart)> > > > > > > Paryantara = Su (Natural significator of heart) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Taking the 2st condition, (considering Kalapurusha and> starting> > > > > > > Vimsottari from Lagna) note that - > > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (has an exaltation is 4th of Kalapuruasha - can> > indicate> > > > > > > heart)> > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation sign is> > > > > > 4th,> > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart)> > > > > > > Paryantara = Me (Me's debilitation sign is 4th, Pisces;Me is > > > > > > placed> > > > > > > in 6th, i.e. house of disease - can indicate heart)> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But where is Ma? Ma's debilitation sign is Cancer (heart of > > > > > > > Kalapurusha); Ma aspects 4th of Kalapurusha - heart; andMa's> > > > > > Navamsa> > > > > > > falls in Pisces (4th from lagna) - heart!! Ke navamsa is in > > Cancer> > > > > > > (heart of Kalapurusha). Result derivation - possibility of a> > > > minute> > > > > > > hole in heart. Ok! Ra (counter part of Ke) should give this > > > > result,> > > > > > > and that means in Ju-Ra-Su is proper time for it to show its> > > > > > effect!> > > > > > > That is what happened. > > > > > > > But what about Ma? We noted that there is a cyclic relation> > > > > > between> > > > > > > Ju-Ra-Ma. That is not a good time. Ma signifies, blood and > > > > clotting> > > > > > > of blood, and possibly a second problem due to that. You> > have good> > > > > > > longevity and it is not going to be harmful enough, and life > > will> > > > > > > continue....I am not trying to make any prediction regarding> > > > > > > longevity - but know that there is a long time ahead.But you > > > > know,> > > > > > > by now that you have to take more care regarding health for> > coming> > > > > > > March/April 2008. It is Ju-Ra-Ma as per Vimsottari Dasa from > > Moon.> > > > > > > Now Transit - That we will consider in next mail. I know> > > > > > > traditional astrology only - and nothing else. So pleaserest > > > > > > assured> > > > > > > that this analysis is based on traditional astrology only.> > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > >> > > > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be > able to> > > > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely> > on the> > > > > > > basis> > > > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing> > well now> > > > > > > after> > > > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this> > > > > > event> > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment.> > (Date of> > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India> > > > > > > 74E48,34N05)> > > > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very > strong, and> > > > > > Sun> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart.> > There is > > > > > > no> > > > > > > bad> > > > > > > > aspect to the fourth house.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > > > > responses> > > > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a> > mockery of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my > query as> > > > to> > > > > > > why> > > > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which> is a> > > > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise> astrological > > > > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost> faith on> > > > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Pandit ji, Being an unmoderated list, all the messages posted in the group should appear in the group instentaneously. If the message posted by you didn't appear (the same happened with Srinivas ji as well), it could be due three reasons - * The mail account you used to post the message failed in some way, or blocked the message due to some technical error. (This is what happened in the case of Srinivas ji - his satyam account was causing problems) * For the past 1 week is experiencing some problems. Yesterday I tried to login at least 25 times using my id and password, (through the group, through the mail page, through messenger etc) but I couldn't!! When password recovery is tried, was asking for some credit card information as well and I was wonder struck! I was damn sure that my id and password is correct and still the problems. I came to know that many other people are experiencing the same problem with - at times they fail to login, at times the posted messages won't appear etc. Today I was worried, thinking that whether I would have to create a new id etc and today I could login without any difficulty!! So possibly the problem could be at end itself. * Or there could be some other network problems involved. In any case there is no moderation or other issues involved. Me too experienced the problem of my message not getting posted in the group 2 or 3 times, even after posting it - this seems to be an problem at end. Love, Sreenadh , Panditji <navagraha wrote: > > Namaste Sreenadhji, > > I had posted this message, somehow it has not appeared on the list so > posting again > > Thanks > > ... > > ------- > Namaste Sreenadhji and all the esteemed members of the forum, > > I am glad that the forum has grown and is graced by so many stalwarts in the > field. > > In discussing the chart of heart attack, someone mentioned how third > dreshkan was rising and so > heart was 4th or 5th house. I always had question about dreshkan and body > parts. > > So if 1st dreshkan is rising then 1house is so and so, the second so and so. > > If the second dreshkan rises then 1st is .. > > The question I have is, for a particular native only one of the dreshkan > will be rising. So lets say 3rd is rising, > > Now what happens to the body parts mentioned for 1st or second dreshkan > rising. Certainly they do not disappear. > > I will be interested in knowing the opinions of the esteemed members. > > Thanks > > ... > > > > > > On 10/13/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > Yes, truly we intend to do that. We will start with 'Astrology in > > Vatmiki Ramayana'.. A new thread - but expect a lots of blasts - > > which are usual in such discussions regarding 'conventional but > > neglected areas' of astrology. But since we are all just inquisitive > > seekers of ancient knowledge. > > I will start a series of articles to prepare the initial ground for > > discussion on that subject (i.e. 'Astrology in Vatmiki Ramayana') - > > possibly one article per week. Since you are truly interested in > > stellar astrology - please be on my side to defend the attacks that > > may come from all directions regarding this subject - once we step > > into it.. Kaul ji could be the one who is first feel offended and > > then others will follow the path – and you be in front and I will stay > > behind… > > Love and Hugs, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > > I am glad to hear that. I would feel highly rewarded by joining this > > > group if discussions in this group tread into such conventional but > > > neglected areas of Jyotish. > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > As you correctly stated - the vedic system of astrology was almost > > > > totally based on Nakshatras. There are many proofs that suggests that > > > > in that ancient past, the Vedic people depended more on 'Nakshatra > > > > Lagna' (A Nakshatra was considered as a Lagna) and 'Combination of > > > > planets in Nakshatras' (A planetary combination was considered a > > > > combination - only if it was within a Nakshatra span) etc. Yes, > > > > Stellar astrology was a subject of much importance in the Vedic > > > > period, and not much research went into the same yet - but here in > > > > this group, we will try putting some systematic effort in to the same > > > > later as the time permits. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Nair, > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > While I too am hesitant to accept this as an explanation and propose > > > > > to study it further, I am constrained to consider this possibility > > > > > since there is no other explanation that is forthcoming based on the > > > > > conventional Parasari knowledge. > > > > > I have also a lurking doubt that we modern readers of Jyotish are > > > > > making very little use of Nakshatras than our predecessors used to > > > make. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " Balagurusurya " > > > > > <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Razdan, > > > > > > > > > > > > Ref-Your posting in tlist msg No -3425 > > > > > > > > > > > > You say placement of Ju in the star of U. Bhadrapadha lorded by > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > Your conjecure this is a conventional explanation for the > > > > cause of > > > > > > Heart attack, is off the fact . > > > > > > > > > > > > The misconceived Planetary lordships , that is , equating > > Vimsottari > > > > > > Dasha lords as Nakshatradhipathis (???) is of recent origin , > > > to be > > > > > > precise , during the turn of last century ; made popular by > > > > > > Gopalakrishna Rao through his " Meena's Nadi " that later became the > > > > > > genesis of KP , KB etc etc > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely No evidence to prove that ancients > > Masters were > > > > > > using planetary lordships to give prediction. Sreenadh says in > > > " Prasna > > > > > > Marga " a sloka is there , that could be streched to support > > > > planetary > > > > > > lordships.I have to disagree because if that is the case , in > > kerala > > > > > > ,from where PM orginated , except a countable few who follows > > > KP no > > > > > > traditional astrologers well versed in PM , uses planetary > > > lordship to > > > > > > give prediction. > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if you give credence to stellar lordship ,then it > > > > won't be > > > > > > in fitness of things to call it , a conventional explanation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > > > > M Nair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " pnrazdan " > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > > > > I appreciate your desire to see my chart from all angles. I > > > > thank you > > > > > > > profusely for this effort. > > > > > > > Like others, you have also taken yet another way to explain this > > > > event > > > > > > > i.e through a new Ayanmasha. While there are several who praise > > > > > > > Chandra Hari's AM as it relates spirituality to jyotish, we > > > have the > > > > > > > practice of following the Lahiri AM in our daily work. Still I > > > > did try > > > > > > > to see how this AM fits into my chart for other events. > > Sadly the > > > > > > > results were not helpful. For example I married my son in Nov. > > > 2001 > > > > > > > and the dasa it depicts at that time is Ju-Ve-Sat. Both > > Venus and > > > > > > > Saturn would not be helpful in this good event. Again I got my > > > > > > > promotion in office in Nov 1996 and the dasa it depicts is > > > > Ju-Sat-Jup. > > > > > > > A debilitated Sat would never have allowed this to happen.And > > > if we > > > > > > > take Lahiri AM into consideration, the dasas were > > Jup-Sun-Rah and > > > > > > > Jup-Mer-Mars respectively, which nicely corroborate the two > > > events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we take your argument of Jup-Ra-Ve leading to the > > problem, > > > > > > > this combination with a strong Jup would not have allowed this > > > > > > > calamity to happen. You try to explain this by the Dasa Sandhi > > > but I > > > > > > > donot to the view that Jup dasa sandhi would take this > > > > > > > benefic planet to this low level. Besides Sun the Karaka for > > > > heart has > > > > > > > been my greatest asset in life. As you would have marked above > > > > it has > > > > > > > given me nice things in its AD and therefore I to the > > > > theory > > > > > > > that Sun is best in an Upchaya house and not functionally > > > malefic in > > > > > > > my chart. > > > > > > > Out of the many responses one that has struck me as the > > > simplest and > > > > > > > conventional interpretation is the linkage of Jupiter with > > > > Uttarbhadra > > > > > > > planet that is lorded by Saturn. This is something I propose to > > > > study > > > > > > > in the days to come and see if Jupiter in this nakshatra was > > > > supposed > > > > > > > to succumb to Saturnian influence in its dasa period. But > > > there is a > > > > > > > catch here too. Covnentionally again Sat in its own AD would not > > > > have > > > > > > > brought its malefic influence into play. > > > > > > > Sorry for the long mail. > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > > > > > I made a small mistake in my previous post (since I was > > doing it > > > > > > > > from memory and was in office - in my office pc astrolgy > > > softwares > > > > > > > > are not installed). The Vimsottari dasa from moon running > > at the > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > of the event was Ju-Ra-Ve and not Ju-Ra-Su. But the same too > > > > > > explains > > > > > > > > the event (as discussed in the previous mail), all the other > > > > things > > > > > > > > remains the same. > > > > > > > > You can check the Antar dasa periods etc I mentioned in JHora, > > > > > > > > using True Ayanamsa of Chandra Hari; It is just 46 min > > more than > > > > > > > > Chitrapaksaha (Lahari) Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: I would like to know your response about the > > > > 'explanation'; Do > > > > > > > > you agree with it or not? Is it satisfactory enough? What > > do you > > > > > > > > feel? As you know well, such discussion are just part of our > > > (both > > > > > > > > you and me) effort to understand ancient Indian astrology > > better > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > than to shed light on past or future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > > > > > > I am using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari (That is what I > > always > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > and trust), which is the Ayanamsa proposed by Surya > > > > Sidhanta. The > > > > > > > > > Year length used is 365.2425. Based on the above we will > > > discuss > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > Actually I have seen your chart, before itself and half > > of the > > > > > > > > > planetary position is there in mind (Now I am in office - > > > I will > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > a detailed response later). > > > > > > > > > You had the heart Attack in Ju=>Ra=>Su. Why? As you know > > > well - > > > > > > > > > * Lagna = Sagittarius > > > > > > > > > * Ju in Pisces (in 4th) in own house, with Ju navamsa in > > Libra > > > > > > > > > * Ra in Libra (in 11th), with Ra navamsa in Capricorn > > > > > > > > > * Ma in Capricorn (in 2nd), with Ma navamsa in Pisces > > > > > > > > > * Sun and Me in 6th in Taurus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the planetary position - I remember. The following > > > > points > > > > > > > > > should be noted - > > > > > > > > > * In the above planetary position note that there is > > > continuous > > > > > > > > > cyclic relation between 3 planets Ju-Ra-Ma (Note down this > > > antar > > > > > > > > dasa) > > > > > > > > > * Su and Me are in the house of disease, i.e. 6th house. > > > As per > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > Longitude at the time of heart attach), the dasa > > Ju-Ra-Su was > > > > > > > > > running; As per Lagna longitude, the dasa Ju-Ra-Me was > > > running. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now to the question - why the heart attack should happen - > > > > when Ju > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > in 4th in its own house?!!! OK - that is the major doubt. > > > Let us > > > > > > > > > analysis this chart in th simple way as a simple > > > astrologer will > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > (for sep. 2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Ju das is running was running - gave good results, but > > > now the > > > > > > > > Dasa > > > > > > > > > is ending. It is " Dasa Sandhi " Ju Dasa, Ra Antar Dasa. > > > Note that > > > > > > Ju > > > > > > > > > and Ra are in 6-8 axis to each other, a placement never > > > positive > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > the Dasa Antar Dasa lords to give good results. Some > > thing bad > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > happen, especially related to health/body because Ju is > > Lagna > > > > > > lord. > > > > > > > > > * Ra is in 11th, aspected by malefic debilitated Sa (Sa is > > > > in 5th, > > > > > > > > > Aries) - but still being in 11th it is ok. But Ra Navamsa is > > > > > > > > falling > > > > > > > > > in 2nd house in that debilitated Saturn's sign itself - > > > this is > > > > > > > > bad. > > > > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if Ra is in 2nd house, do a > > Mritunjaya > > > > > > Pooja > > > > > > > > > as soon as possible - if the same dasa or Antar Dasa > > happens. > > > > > > Again > > > > > > > > > the feeling - something bad should happen is emphasized. Sa > > > > is the > > > > > > > > > 2nd (maraka stana) and 3rd (longevity)lord, weak in > > > > debilitation - > > > > > > > > > did this Ra find only the navamsa of that Sa to sit?!! > > > > > > > > > * Su is the natural significator of heart, and is placed > > > in the > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > of disease, i.e. 6th house along with another Maraka Me. > > > Su owns > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > of the body triangles (1-5-9), i.e. 9th. And the event > > struck. > > > > > > > > > * But why heart?! Su is a significator of a thousand things > > > > - why > > > > > > > > > should be heart at all? In the chart the house indicating > > > heart, > > > > > > > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > 4th house is very strong with Ju in own house - then why > > > heart? > > > > > > > > Hmm.. > > > > > > > > > But not that with Ju dasa ending (4th, heart, came into > > > > play), Ra > > > > > > > > > having strong hold Ju can not be considered strong at this > > > point > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > time. But this explanation does not seems to be > > satisfactory. > > > > > > > > > * Is there any indication in the chart that 4th house > > > (heart) is > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > or that some trouble related to heart will happen at some > > > > point of > > > > > > > > > time? The straight question is what are the planets with a > > > root > > > > > > > > > connection is 4th house? > > > > > > > > > 1) From Lagna (Pisces) = Me (Me's debilitation sign), Ve > > (Ve's > > > > > > > > > exaltation sign - Note that Ra is supposed to give the > > > > results of > > > > > > > > Ve > > > > > > > > > being placed in Libra), Ju (Ju's own sign) > > > > > > > > > 2) From Aries (Cancer, Kalapurusha Chart)= Ma (Ma's > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > > sign), Ju (Ju's exaltation sign), Mo (Mo's own sign) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 1st condition, (starting Vimsottari from > > Moon) note > > > > > > > > that - > > > > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (4th own sign - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation > > sign is > > > > > > > > 4th, > > > > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > Paryantara = Su (Natural significator of heart) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 2st condition, (considering Kalapurusha and > > > starting > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari from Lagna) note that - > > > > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (has an exaltation is 4th of Kalapuruasha - can > > > > indicate > > > > > > > > > heart) > > > > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation > > sign is > > > > > > > > 4th, > > > > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > Paryantara = Me (Me's debilitation sign is 4th, Pisces; > > Me is > > > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > > > in 6th, i.e. house of disease - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where is Ma? Ma's debilitation sign is Cancer (heart of > > > > > > > > > Kalapurusha); Ma aspects 4th of Kalapurusha - heart; and > > Ma's > > > > > > > > Navamsa > > > > > > > > > falls in Pisces (4th from lagna) - heart!! Ke navamsa is in > > > > Cancer > > > > > > > > > (heart of Kalapurusha). Result derivation - possibility of a > > > > > > minute > > > > > > > > > hole in heart. Ok! Ra (counter part of Ke) should give this > > > > > > result, > > > > > > > > > and that means in Ju-Ra-Su is proper time for it to show its > > > > > > > > effect! > > > > > > > > > That is what happened. > > > > > > > > > But what about Ma? We noted that there is a cyclic relation > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Ju-Ra-Ma. That is not a good time. Ma signifies, blood and > > > > > > clotting > > > > > > > > > of blood, and possibly a second problem due to that. You > > > > have good > > > > > > > > > longevity and it is not going to be harmful enough, and life > > > > will > > > > > > > > > continue....I am not trying to make any prediction regarding > > > > > > > > > longevity - but know that there is a long time ahead. > > But you > > > > > > know, > > > > > > > > > by now that you have to take more care regarding health for > > > > coming > > > > > > > > > March/April 2008. It is Ju-Ra-Ma as per Vimsottari Dasa from > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > Now Transit - That we will consider in next mail. I know > > > > > > > > > traditional astrology only - and nothing else. So please > > rest > > > > > > > > assured > > > > > > > > > that this analysis is based on traditional astrology only. > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40.\ com>, > > " pnrazdan " > > > > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > basis > > > > > > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing > > > > well now > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light > > on this > > > > > > > > event > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > > > > (Date of > > > > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very > > > strong, and > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. > > > > There is > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > > > > > > responses > > > > > > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a > > > > mockery of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my > > > query as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost > > > faith on > > > > > > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Pandit ji, ==> > The question I have is, for a particular native only one of the > dreshkan will be rising. So lets say 3rd is rising, > Now what happens to the body parts mentioned for 1st or second > dreshkan rising. Certainly they do not disappear. <== As you have rightly mentioned all the 3 drekkanas signify the body parts - as per the slokas. BUT the DISEASE/TROUBLE should be predicted ONLY to that drekkana related body part in which the lagna is rising. Or in other words the rising drekkana just helps us in locating one of the body parts that is most susceptible to damage or diseases. This is my understanding. Note: I am no stalwart - pardon me for responding to a question addressed to them.. Love, Sreenadh , Panditji <navagraha wrote: > > Namaste Sreenadhji and all the esteemed members of the forum, > > I am glad that the forum has grown and is graced by so many stalwarts in the > field. > > In discussing the chart of heart attack, someone mentioned how third > dreshkan was rising and so > heart was 4th or 5th house. I always had question about dreshkan and body > parts. > > So if 1st dreshkan is rising then 1house is so and so, the second so and so. > > If the second dreshkan rises then 1st is .. > > The question I have is, for a particular native only one of the dreshkan > will be rising. So lets say 3rd is rising, > > Now what happens to the body parts mentioned for 1st or second dreshkan > rising. Certainly they do not disappear. > > I will be interested in knowing the opinions of the esteemed members. > > Thanks > > ... > > > On 10/10/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Philip ji, > > Astrological derivations are NO ULTIMATUM - they are just > > guidelines only. They may become true or may not be - with an > > individual with natural intelligence one SHOUDN'T depend too much on > > astrology and act MEARELY on behalf of that. Astrology is just > > guidance - just simple guidance without going to too much details. > > The details are NOT even in the hands of fate. Fate (Deterministic) > > and Free will (chance) are equally important - actually Free will is > > more important because - it is what later turns into fate. > > Without writing an exam you can not pass; without swimming you can > > not cross the river. Even if you are destined to pass, god will not > > come to write the exam for you; even if the river is flowing > > downwards you can swim and cross the river. Examples are thousands. > > Using astrology as a guidance, along with your actual knowledge and > > experience - is WISE > > Depending TOTALLY on astrology, and believing that some thing will > > come true even without effort - is just FOOLISH > > > > Razdan ji is a very knowledgeable individual with much experience > > and good knowledge of astrology, he must be knowing how to use it > > better than you and me. So don't worry about the same. > > Another point is that an analysis of a past event is usually done > > just to understand and to learn astrology and is usually done between > > two individuals who DOES KNOW astrology - that is why a clear > > presentation with Razdan ji who himself is an astrologer. Actually > > this is not a " reading " at all - and this group does not appreciate > > reading of consolations within the group. It is just a discussion > > between to astrologers - who knows how to weigh the derivations; or > > whether to value them at all! > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > Philip Miller > > <pem218@> wrote: > > > > > > Razdan's question and Sreenadh's reply lead me to make this > > posting. I apologize in advance that I am so new to Jyotish. Several > > years ago a Jyotishi gave me a reading in which he said I would be > > facing cardiac problems in May/June of 2006. Needless to say, the > > time came and passed and I seemed just fine. Then, on May 9, 2007, > > quite without prior warning or symptoms, a routine test revealed I > > needed three angioplasties. (In other words, I dodged the bullet.) > > > > > > The same reading predicted severe financial problems during the > > summer of 2006. This came to pass exactly as the Jyotishi said. > > > > > > So how might I reconcile these differences ,especially that one > > aspect was precisely a full year off? > > > > > > If anyone can hjelp shed light, I would be grateful. My details > > are as follows: 18 February 1945, at Providence RI (USA) [41.83N - > > 71.41W] at approximately 16;00 > > > > > > Many thanks > > > Philip Miller > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: > > mail, news, photos & more. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Pandit ji, The message has appeared in the group already as: 3498. The delay must have been caused by , or the network. Love, Sreenadh , Panditji <navagraha wrote: > > Namaste Sreenadhji, > > I had posted this message, somehow it has not appeared on the list so > posting again > > Thanks > > ... > > ------- > Namaste Sreenadhji and all the esteemed members of the forum, > > I am glad that the forum has grown and is graced by so many stalwarts in the > field. > > In discussing the chart of heart attack, someone mentioned how third > dreshkan was rising and so > heart was 4th or 5th house. I always had question about dreshkan and body > parts. > > So if 1st dreshkan is rising then 1house is so and so, the second so and so. > > If the second dreshkan rises then 1st is .. > > The question I have is, for a particular native only one of the dreshkan > will be rising. So lets say 3rd is rising, > > Now what happens to the body parts mentioned for 1st or second dreshkan > rising. Certainly they do not disappear. > > I will be interested in knowing the opinions of the esteemed members. > > Thanks > > ... > > > > > > On 10/13/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > Yes, truly we intend to do that. We will start with 'Astrology in > > Vatmiki Ramayana'.. A new thread - but expect a lots of blasts - > > which are usual in such discussions regarding 'conventional but > > neglected areas' of astrology. But since we are all just inquisitive > > seekers of ancient knowledge. > > I will start a series of articles to prepare the initial ground for > > discussion on that subject (i.e. 'Astrology in Vatmiki Ramayana') - > > possibly one article per week. Since you are truly interested in > > stellar astrology - please be on my side to defend the attacks that > > may come from all directions regarding this subject - once we step > > into it.. Kaul ji could be the one who is first feel offended and > > then others will follow the path – and you be in front and I will stay > > behind… > > Love and Hugs, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > > I am glad to hear that. I would feel highly rewarded by joining this > > > group if discussions in this group tread into such conventional but > > > neglected areas of Jyotish. > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > As you correctly stated - the vedic system of astrology was almost > > > > totally based on Nakshatras. There are many proofs that suggests that > > > > in that ancient past, the Vedic people depended more on 'Nakshatra > > > > Lagna' (A Nakshatra was considered as a Lagna) and 'Combination of > > > > planets in Nakshatras' (A planetary combination was considered a > > > > combination - only if it was within a Nakshatra span) etc. Yes, > > > > Stellar astrology was a subject of much importance in the Vedic > > > > period, and not much research went into the same yet - but here in > > > > this group, we will try putting some systematic effort in to the same > > > > later as the time permits. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Nair, > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > While I too am hesitant to accept this as an explanation and propose > > > > > to study it further, I am constrained to consider this possibility > > > > > since there is no other explanation that is forthcoming based on the > > > > > conventional Parasari knowledge. > > > > > I have also a lurking doubt that we modern readers of Jyotish are > > > > > making very little use of Nakshatras than our predecessors used to > > > make. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Balagurusurya " > > > > > <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Razdan, > > > > > > > > > > > > Ref-Your posting in tlist msg No -3425 > > > > > > > > > > > > You say placement of Ju in the star of U. Bhadrapadha lorded by > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > Your conjecure this is a conventional explanation for the > > > > cause of > > > > > > Heart attack, is off the fact . > > > > > > > > > > > > The misconceived Planetary lordships , that is , equating > > Vimsottari > > > > > > Dasha lords as Nakshatradhipathis (???) is of recent origin , > > > to be > > > > > > precise , during the turn of last century ; made popular by > > > > > > Gopalakrishna Rao through his " Meena's Nadi " that later became the > > > > > > genesis of KP , KB etc etc > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely No evidence to prove that ancients > > Masters were > > > > > > using planetary lordships to give prediction. Sreenadh says in > > > " Prasna > > > > > > Marga " a sloka is there , that could be streched to support > > > > planetary > > > > > > lordships.I have to disagree because if that is the case , in > > kerala > > > > > > ,from where PM orginated , except a countable few who follows > > > KP no > > > > > > traditional astrologers well versed in PM , uses planetary > > > lordship to > > > > > > give prediction. > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is if you give credence to stellar lordship ,then it > > > > won't be > > > > > > in fitness of things to call it , a conventional explanation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > > > > M Nair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " pnrazdan " > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > > > > I appreciate your desire to see my chart from all angles. I > > > > thank you > > > > > > > profusely for this effort. > > > > > > > Like others, you have also taken yet another way to explain this > > > > event > > > > > > > i.e through a new Ayanmasha. While there are several who praise > > > > > > > Chandra Hari's AM as it relates spirituality to jyotish, we > > > have the > > > > > > > practice of following the Lahiri AM in our daily work. Still I > > > > did try > > > > > > > to see how this AM fits into my chart for other events. > > Sadly the > > > > > > > results were not helpful. For example I married my son in Nov. > > > 2001 > > > > > > > and the dasa it depicts at that time is Ju-Ve-Sat. Both > > Venus and > > > > > > > Saturn would not be helpful in this good event. Again I got my > > > > > > > promotion in office in Nov 1996 and the dasa it depicts is > > > > Ju-Sat-Jup. > > > > > > > A debilitated Sat would never have allowed this to happen.And > > > if we > > > > > > > take Lahiri AM into consideration, the dasas were > > Jup-Sun-Rah and > > > > > > > Jup-Mer-Mars respectively, which nicely corroborate the two > > > events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if we take your argument of Jup-Ra-Ve leading to the > > problem, > > > > > > > this combination with a strong Jup would not have allowed this > > > > > > > calamity to happen. You try to explain this by the Dasa Sandhi > > > but I > > > > > > > donot to the view that Jup dasa sandhi would take this > > > > > > > benefic planet to this low level. Besides Sun the Karaka for > > > > heart has > > > > > > > been my greatest asset in life. As you would have marked above > > > > it has > > > > > > > given me nice things in its AD and therefore I to the > > > > theory > > > > > > > that Sun is best in an Upchaya house and not functionally > > > malefic in > > > > > > > my chart. > > > > > > > Out of the many responses one that has struck me as the > > > simplest and > > > > > > > conventional interpretation is the linkage of Jupiter with > > > > Uttarbhadra > > > > > > > planet that is lorded by Saturn. This is something I propose to > > > > study > > > > > > > in the days to come and see if Jupiter in this nakshatra was > > > > supposed > > > > > > > to succumb to Saturnian influence in its dasa period. But > > > there is a > > > > > > > catch here too. Covnentionally again Sat in its own AD would not > > > > have > > > > > > > brought its malefic influence into play. > > > > > > > Sorry for the long mail. > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > > > > > I made a small mistake in my previous post (since I was > > doing it > > > > > > > > from memory and was in office - in my office pc astrolgy > > > softwares > > > > > > > > are not installed). The Vimsottari dasa from moon running > > at the > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > of the event was Ju-Ra-Ve and not Ju-Ra-Su. But the same too > > > > > > explains > > > > > > > > the event (as discussed in the previous mail), all the other > > > > things > > > > > > > > remains the same. > > > > > > > > You can check the Antar dasa periods etc I mentioned in JHora, > > > > > > > > using True Ayanamsa of Chandra Hari; It is just 46 min > > more than > > > > > > > > Chitrapaksaha (Lahari) Ayanamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: I would like to know your response about the > > > > 'explanation'; Do > > > > > > > > you agree with it or not? Is it satisfactory enough? What > > do you > > > > > > > > feel? As you know well, such discussion are just part of our > > > (both > > > > > > > > you and me) effort to understand ancient Indian astrology > > better > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > than to shed light on past or future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan ji, > > > > > > > > > I am using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari (That is what I > > always > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > and trust), which is the Ayanamsa proposed by Surya > > > > Sidhanta. The > > > > > > > > > Year length used is 365.2425. Based on the above we will > > > discuss > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > Actually I have seen your chart, before itself and half > > of the > > > > > > > > > planetary position is there in mind (Now I am in office - > > > I will > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > a detailed response later). > > > > > > > > > You had the heart Attack in Ju=>Ra=>Su. Why? As you know > > > well - > > > > > > > > > * Lagna = Sagittarius > > > > > > > > > * Ju in Pisces (in 4th) in own house, with Ju navamsa in > > Libra > > > > > > > > > * Ra in Libra (in 11th), with Ra navamsa in Capricorn > > > > > > > > > * Ma in Capricorn (in 2nd), with Ma navamsa in Pisces > > > > > > > > > * Sun and Me in 6th in Taurus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the planetary position - I remember. The following > > > > points > > > > > > > > > should be noted - > > > > > > > > > * In the above planetary position note that there is > > > continuous > > > > > > > > > cyclic relation between 3 planets Ju-Ra-Ma (Note down this > > > antar > > > > > > > > dasa) > > > > > > > > > * Su and Me are in the house of disease, i.e. 6th house. > > > As per > > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > > Longitude at the time of heart attach), the dasa > > Ju-Ra-Su was > > > > > > > > > running; As per Lagna longitude, the dasa Ju-Ra-Me was > > > running. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now to the question - why the heart attack should happen - > > > > when Ju > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > in 4th in its own house?!!! OK - that is the major doubt. > > > Let us > > > > > > > > > analysis this chart in th simple way as a simple > > > astrologer will > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > (for sep. 2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Ju das is running was running - gave good results, but > > > now the > > > > > > > > Dasa > > > > > > > > > is ending. It is " Dasa Sandhi " Ju Dasa, Ra Antar Dasa. > > > Note that > > > > > > Ju > > > > > > > > > and Ra are in 6-8 axis to each other, a placement never > > > positive > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > the Dasa Antar Dasa lords to give good results. Some > > thing bad > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > happen, especially related to health/body because Ju is > > Lagna > > > > > > lord. > > > > > > > > > * Ra is in 11th, aspected by malefic debilitated Sa (Sa is > > > > in 5th, > > > > > > > > > Aries) - but still being in 11th it is ok. But Ra Navamsa is > > > > > > > > falling > > > > > > > > > in 2nd house in that debilitated Saturn's sign itself - > > > this is > > > > > > > > bad. > > > > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if Ra is in 2nd house, do a > > Mritunjaya > > > > > > Pooja > > > > > > > > > as soon as possible - if the same dasa or Antar Dasa > > happens. > > > > > > Again > > > > > > > > > the feeling - something bad should happen is emphasized. Sa > > > > is the > > > > > > > > > 2nd (maraka stana) and 3rd (longevity)lord, weak in > > > > debilitation - > > > > > > > > > did this Ra find only the navamsa of that Sa to sit?!! > > > > > > > > > * Su is the natural significator of heart, and is placed > > > in the > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > of disease, i.e. 6th house along with another Maraka Me. > > > Su owns > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > of the body triangles (1-5-9), i.e. 9th. And the event > > struck. > > > > > > > > > * But why heart?! Su is a significator of a thousand things > > > > - why > > > > > > > > > should be heart at all? In the chart the house indicating > > > heart, > > > > > > > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > 4th house is very strong with Ju in own house - then why > > > heart? > > > > > > > > Hmm.. > > > > > > > > > But not that with Ju dasa ending (4th, heart, came into > > > > play), Ra > > > > > > > > > having strong hold Ju can not be considered strong at this > > > point > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > time. But this explanation does not seems to be > > satisfactory. > > > > > > > > > * Is there any indication in the chart that 4th house > > > (heart) is > > > > > > > > weak > > > > > > > > > or that some trouble related to heart will happen at some > > > > point of > > > > > > > > > time? The straight question is what are the planets with a > > > root > > > > > > > > > connection is 4th house? > > > > > > > > > 1) From Lagna (Pisces) = Me (Me's debilitation sign), Ve > > (Ve's > > > > > > > > > exaltation sign - Note that Ra is supposed to give the > > > > results of > > > > > > > > Ve > > > > > > > > > being placed in Libra), Ju (Ju's own sign) > > > > > > > > > 2) From Aries (Cancer, Kalapurusha Chart)= Ma (Ma's > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > > sign), Ju (Ju's exaltation sign), Mo (Mo's own sign) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 1st condition, (starting Vimsottari from > > Moon) note > > > > > > > > that - > > > > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (4th own sign - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation > > sign is > > > > > > > > 4th, > > > > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > Paryantara = Su (Natural significator of heart) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking the 2st condition, (considering Kalapurusha and > > > starting > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari from Lagna) note that - > > > > > > > > > Dasa = Ju (has an exaltation is 4th of Kalapuruasha - can > > > > indicate > > > > > > > > > heart) > > > > > > > > > Antara = Ra (placed in the sign of Ve, Ve's exaltation > > sign is > > > > > > > > 4th, > > > > > > > > > Pisces - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > Paryantara = Me (Me's debilitation sign is 4th, Pisces; > > Me is > > > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > > > in 6th, i.e. house of disease - can indicate heart) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where is Ma? Ma's debilitation sign is Cancer (heart of > > > > > > > > > Kalapurusha); Ma aspects 4th of Kalapurusha - heart; and > > Ma's > > > > > > > > Navamsa > > > > > > > > > falls in Pisces (4th from lagna) - heart!! Ke navamsa is in > > > > Cancer > > > > > > > > > (heart of Kalapurusha). Result derivation - possibility of a > > > > > > minute > > > > > > > > > hole in heart. Ok! Ra (counter part of Ke) should give this > > > > > > result, > > > > > > > > > and that means in Ju-Ra-Su is proper time for it to show its > > > > > > > > effect! > > > > > > > > > That is what happened. > > > > > > > > > But what about Ma? We noted that there is a cyclic relation > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Ju-Ra-Ma. That is not a good time. Ma signifies, blood and > > > > > > clotting > > > > > > > > > of blood, and possibly a second problem due to that. You > > > > have good > > > > > > > > > longevity and it is not going to be harmful enough, and life > > > > will > > > > > > > > > continue....I am not trying to make any prediction regarding > > > > > > > > > longevity - but know that there is a long time ahead. > > But you > > > > > > know, > > > > > > > > > by now that you have to take more care regarding health for > > > > coming > > > > > > > > > March/April 2008. It is Ju-Ra-Ma as per Vimsottari Dasa from > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > Now Transit - That we will consider in next mail. I know > > > > > > > > > traditional astrology only - and nothing else. So please > > rest > > > > > > > > assured > > > > > > > > > that this analysis is based on traditional astrology only. > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " pnrazdan " > > > > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > basis > > > > > > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing > > > > well now > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light > > on this > > > > > > > > event > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > > > > (Date of > > > > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very > > > strong, and > > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. > > > > There is > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > > > > > > responses > > > > > > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a > > > > mockery of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my > > > query as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost > > > faith on > > > > > > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Mr Kaul, You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others by mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right perspective:- To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy which also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct that his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. But the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the grandson of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got this knowledge from Brahma The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when this branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent origin and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much earlier and are full of predictive tecniques. Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as an ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! Regards, P.N.Razdan , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > Namaskar! > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > treated by jyotishis> > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how ignorant > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating the > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into India > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when actually it > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced by > any fraud in the world! > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya Sidhanta > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, he is > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed that > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . Even > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit to > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! These > are already in the files section of this forum! > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > With regards, > AKK > , " pnrazdan " > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > faith > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > treated > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient teaching in > the > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up with > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto in > their > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group approach, > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > altogether > > absent. > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, broad > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far and > that > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we > define > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and not > the > > ancient knowledge. > > Regards, > > P.N.Razdan > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > Namaskar! > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so called > Vedic > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > attack > > > in your chart! > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would not > have > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > repeating > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > > astrology " these days! > > > Regards, > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on the > basis > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well now > > > after > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > event as > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. (Date of > > > birth > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and > Sun > > > the > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There is > no > > > bad > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen responses > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery of > the > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as > to why > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > fraud on > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and culture. > The > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > There > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. New > > > software has been developed which has demystified the knowledge > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the subject.If > the > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the subject > for > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government nor > to > > > any individual's whims. > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to prove > VA > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for fame > even > > > through wrong reasons. > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to mark > your > > > posts as Spam. > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a Tamil > Hindu > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our outlook > > > which > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Razdan ji, There are several points in your mail which I don't agree with, and can possibly point to some further references. ==> > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the > grandson of Sage Vasisth <== The sage parasara who wrote BPHS is a later day sage lived around BC 1400 (as evident from his quotes on Uttarayana and Dakshiniayana in his period in Parasara Samhita). Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Saunaka etc are sages who wrote Hora texts quotes from which are avialble even today. Actually Parasara is blamed by some as Yavana because he mixed the true Arsha school of astrology with the teachings of Yavaneswara who lived prior to BC 1400. Please refer to the articles such as 'Arsha School of Astrology', 'Jain school of astrology' and 'Yavana school of astrology' in the document Sreenadh/ Introduction%20to%20Essence%20of%20Astrology.pdf You will find this document in side the folder " Sreenadh " in the files section of the group. ==> > Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which followed Vedas a > thousand years later. <== The currently available Ramayana is written around AD 2nd centaury, many proofs for which is clearly present in Ramayana itself. One such instance is discussed in the following document. Sreenadh/ Ramayana%20and%20Budha.pdf ==> > Tajik astrology when this branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim > rule. <== Tajik astrology came from Tajikistan as the name suggests and was not originally related to Muslims. The Muslims had only a role of mediators in knowledge transfer (as merchants of commodities) from Tajikistan to India (especially to Kashmir) as far as this system is concerned. Assuming that 'Tajik System' is 'Muslim astrology' is wrong. The credit of Tajik system goes to the original tradition that created who lived in Tajikistan (Russia). This system came from Tajikistan via Persia through the Muslims to Kashmir and spread in north india. I agree to all other statement in the mail especially to the beautiful, but sarcastic statement at the end, such as - ==> > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as > an ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! <== Lol...I wonder when Kaul ji is going have a retrospect of his own foolishness caused by his ego, and self (?) conditioning through all these years. Love, Sreenadh , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Mr Kaul, > You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others by > mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right perspective:- > To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy which > also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct that > his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy > (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. But > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the grandson > of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which > followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got this > knowledge from Brahma > The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when this > branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive > techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent origin > and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much earlier and > are full of predictive tecniques. > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as an > ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > Namaskar! > > > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > treated by jyotishis> > > > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how ignorant > > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating the > > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and > > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the > > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into India > > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest > > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it > > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most > > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when actually it > > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced by > > any fraud in the world! > > > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya Sidhanta > > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, he is > > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed that > > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . Even > > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit to > > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! These > > are already in the files section of this forum! > > > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > > With regards, > > AKK > > , " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > faith > > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > treated > > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient teaching in > > the > > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up with > > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto in > > their > > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group approach, > > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > > altogether > > > absent. > > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, broad > > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far and > > that > > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we > > define > > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and not > > the > > > ancient knowledge. > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > > Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so called > > Vedic > > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > > attack > > > > in your chart! > > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would not > > have > > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > > repeating > > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > > > astrology " these days! > > > > Regards, > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on the > > basis > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well now > > > > after > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > > event as > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. (Date of > > > > birth > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and > > Sun > > > > the > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There is > > no > > > > bad > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen responses > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery of > > the > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as > > to why > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > > fraud on > > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and culture. > > The > > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > > There > > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. New > > > > software has been developed which has demystified the knowledge > > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the subject.If > > the > > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the subject > > for > > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government nor > > to > > > > any individual's whims. > > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to prove > > VA > > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for fame > > even > > > > through wrong reasons. > > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to mark > > your > > > > posts as Spam. > > > > Regards, > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > --- In hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a Tamil > > Hindu > > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our outlook > > > > which > > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Razdan Sahib, Namaskar! 1. Please read Koshur6.doc. We can compare notes again. 2. Anybody who makes correct predictions from incorrect data is definitely a charlatan and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest charlatan since he is supposed to have made correct predictions from the planetary data based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha! No wonder people like you bow before him after one and a half millenium! 3. In the last century itself we had also the " Greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century " . He also made correct predictions from incorrect data! Witness his " Notable Horoscopes " - - almost not even a single horoscope, including that of the " greatest astrologer himself " in that book is correct! That is why people bow before him even today! 4. Tha half a dozen Parasharis that are floating around in the market these days are the worst possible concoctions! The earliest printed edition of Brihat Prashari (Venkateshwar Press, Bombay) available as on date advises us to use Grahalaghava Ayanamsha. I only hope you know when Grahlaghava was composed! Thus uou seem to be ignorant of even the basic literature of the so called phalita Jyotishashastra about which you are having a shastra- artha! That is the real hall mark of " successful Vedic astrologers " . Keep it up! With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul , " pnrazdan " <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Mr Kaul, > You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others by > mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right perspective:- > To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy which > also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct that > his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy > (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. But > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the grandson > of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which > followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got this > knowledge from Brahma > The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when this > branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive > techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent origin > and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much earlier and > are full of predictive tecniques. > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as an > ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! > Regards, > P.N.Razdan > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > Namaskar! > > > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > treated by jyotishis> > > > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how ignorant > > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating the > > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and > > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the > > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into India > > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest > > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it > > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most > > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when actually it > > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced by > > any fraud in the world! > > > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya Sidhanta > > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, he is > > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed that > > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . Even > > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit to > > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! These > > are already in the files section of this forum! > > > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > > With regards, > > AKK > > , " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that what I > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > faith > > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > treated > > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient teaching in > > the > > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up with > > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto in > > their > > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group approach, > > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > > altogether > > > absent. > > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, broad > > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far and > > that > > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we > > define > > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and not > > the > > > ancient knowledge. > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > > Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so called > > Vedic > > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > > attack > > > > in your chart! > > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would not > > have > > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > > repeating > > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > > > astrology " these days! > > > > Regards, > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able to > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on the > > basis > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well now > > > > after > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > > event as > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. (Date of > > > > birth > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, and > > Sun > > > > the > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There is > > no > > > > bad > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen responses > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery of > > the > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query as > > to why > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise astrological > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith on > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > > fraud on > > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and culture. > > The > > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > > There > > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. New > > > > software has been developed which has demystified the knowledge > > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the subject.If > > the > > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the subject > > for > > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government nor > > to > > > > any individual's whims. > > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to prove > > VA > > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for fame > > even > > > > through wrong reasons. > > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to mark > > your > > > > posts as Spam. > > > > Regards, > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > --- In hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a Tamil > > Hindu > > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our outlook > > > > which > > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Kaul ji, Please learn to be creative and innovative - for how many years you are parroting the same words again and again - without even changing the wordings!!! Suggestions: * Even if you are presenting the same idea, try using different wordings and new information. * But it is better to be more innovative and come out with new ideas even from old info and present in new inner light. But alas - your parroting seems to miss both these points and it is becoming downright boring as the day goes by - since not even the words and sentences change!! Thanks, Sreenadh , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > Namaskar! > 1. Please read Koshur6.doc. We can compare notes again. > 2. Anybody who makes correct predictions from incorrect data is > definitely a charlatan and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest > charlatan since he is supposed to have made correct predictions > from the planetary data based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta > by Maya the mlechha! No wonder people like you bow before him after > one and a half millenium! > 3. In the last century itself we had also the " Greatest Vedic > astrologer of the twentieth century " . He also made correct > predictions from incorrect data! Witness his " Notable Horoscopes " - > - almost not even a single horoscope, including that of > the " greatest astrologer himself " in that book is correct! That is > why people bow before him even today! > 4. Tha half a dozen Parasharis that are floating around in the > market these days are the worst possible concoctions! The earliest > printed edition of Brihat Prashari (Venkateshwar Press, Bombay) > available as on date advises us to use Grahalaghava Ayanamsha. I > only hope you know when Grahlaghava was composed! > Thus uou seem to be ignorant of even the basic literature of the so > called phalita Jyotishashastra about which you are having a shastra- > artha! That is the real hall mark of " successful Vedic > astrologers " . Keep it up! > > With regards, > Avtar Krishen Kaul > , " pnrazdan " > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others by > > mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right > perspective:- > > To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy > which > > also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct > that > > his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy > > (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. > But > > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the > grandson > > of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which > > followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got > this > > knowledge from Brahma > > The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when this > > branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive > > techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent > origin > > and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much earlier > and > > are full of predictive tecniques. > > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as > an > > ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! > > Regards, > > P.N.Razdan > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > what I > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge > is > > > treated by jyotishis> > > > > > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how > ignorant > > > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > > > > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating > the > > > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and > > > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > > > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the > > > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > > > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into > India > > > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > > > > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest > > > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it > > > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most > > > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when > actually it > > > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced > by > > > any fraud in the world! > > > > > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya > Sidhanta > > > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, > he is > > > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed > that > > > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . > Even > > > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit > to > > > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > > > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > > > > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > > > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! > These > > > are already in the files section of this forum! > > > > > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > > > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > > > With regards, > > > AKK > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > what I > > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent > lost > > > faith > > > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > > treated > > > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient > teaching in > > > the > > > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up > with > > > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto > in > > > their > > > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group > approach, > > > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > > > altogether > > > > absent. > > > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, > broad > > > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far > and > > > that > > > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we > > > define > > > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and > not > > > the > > > > ancient knowledge. > > > > Regards, > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > , " Avtar > Krishen > > > Kaul " > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so > called > > > Vedic > > > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > > > attack > > > > > in your chart! > > > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would > not > > > have > > > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > > > repeating > > > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > > > > astrology " these days! > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able > to > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on > the > > > basis > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well > now > > > > > after > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > > > event as > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > (Date of > > > > > birth > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, > and > > > Sun > > > > > the > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There > is > > > no > > > > > bad > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > responses > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery > of > > > the > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query > as > > > to why > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise > astrological > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith > on > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > > > fraud on > > > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and > culture. > > > The > > > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > > > There > > > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. > New > > > > > software has been developed which has demystified the > knowledge > > > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the > subject.If > > > the > > > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the > subject > > > for > > > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government > nor > > > to > > > > > any individual's whims. > > > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to > prove > > > VA > > > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for > fame > > > even > > > > > through wrong reasons. > > > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to > mark > > > your > > > > > posts as Spam. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > --- In > hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a > Tamil > > > Hindu > > > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our > outlook > > > > > which > > > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Shri Sreenadhji, Namaskar! Shri P. N. Razdan appears to be a new entrant into the field of phalit-jyotish! Let him, as such, come to grips with the hackneyed phrases and words that are boring for " past-masters " like you! Regards, AKK PS " Phalit jyotish is based on Tantra-shastra " etc. has also become a boring and hackneyed phrase/statement by now! Why not be innovative by claiming something like " It is based on the Vedas " ! AKK , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kaul ji, > Please learn to be creative and innovative - for how many years you > are parroting the same words again and again - without even changing > the wordings!!! > > Suggestions: > > * Even if you are presenting the same idea, try using different > wordings and new information. > * But it is better to be more innovative and come out with new ideas > even from old info and present in new inner light. > > But alas - your parroting seems to miss both these points and it is > becoming downright boring as the day goes by - since not even the > words and sentences change!! > > Thanks, > Sreenadh > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > Namaskar! > > 1. Please read Koshur6.doc. We can compare notes again. > > 2. Anybody who makes correct predictions from incorrect data is > > definitely a charlatan and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest > > charlatan since he is supposed to have made correct predictions > > from the planetary data based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta > > by Maya the mlechha! No wonder people like you bow before him > after > > one and a half millenium! > > 3. In the last century itself we had also the " Greatest Vedic > > astrologer of the twentieth century " . He also made correct > > predictions from incorrect data! Witness his " Notable > Horoscopes " - > > - almost not even a single horoscope, including that of > > the " greatest astrologer himself " in that book is correct! That is > > why people bow before him even today! > > 4. Tha half a dozen Parasharis that are floating around in the > > market these days are the worst possible concoctions! The earliest > > printed edition of Brihat Prashari (Venkateshwar Press, Bombay) > > available as on date advises us to use Grahalaghava Ayanamsha. I > > only hope you know when Grahlaghava was composed! > > Thus uou seem to be ignorant of even the basic literature of the so > > called phalita Jyotishashastra about which you are having a shastra- > > artha! That is the real hall mark of " successful Vedic > > astrologers " . Keep it up! > > > > With regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > , " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others > by > > > mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right > > perspective:- > > > To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy > > which > > > also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct > > that > > > his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy > > > (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. > > But > > > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the > > grandson > > > of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas > which > > > followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got > > this > > > knowledge from Brahma > > > The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when > this > > > branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive > > > techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent > > origin > > > and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much > earlier > > and > > > are full of predictive tecniques. > > > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I > as > > an > > > ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > > Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > > what I > > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent > lost > > > > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge > > is > > > > treated by jyotishis> > > > > > > > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how > > ignorant > > > > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > > > > > > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating > > the > > > > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar > and > > > > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > > > > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is > the > > > > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > > > > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into > > India > > > > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > > > > > > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the > greatest > > > > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him > it > > > > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the > most > > > > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when > > actually it > > > > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced > > by > > > > any fraud in the world! > > > > > > > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya > > Sidhanta > > > > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, > > he is > > > > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed > > that > > > > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . > > Even > > > > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit > > to > > > > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > > > > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > > > > > > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > > > > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! > > These > > > > are already in the files section of this forum! > > > > > > > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > > > > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > > > > With regards, > > > > AKK > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > > what I > > > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent > > lost > > > > faith > > > > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > > > treated > > > > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient > > teaching in > > > > the > > > > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up > > with > > > > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto > > in > > > > their > > > > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group > > approach, > > > > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > > > > altogether > > > > > absent. > > > > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, > > broad > > > > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > > > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far > > and > > > > that > > > > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as > we > > > > define > > > > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and > > not > > > > the > > > > > ancient knowledge. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar > > Krishen > > > > Kaul " > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > > > > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so > > called > > > > Vedic > > > > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > > > > attack > > > > > > in your chart! > > > > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would > > not > > > > have > > > > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > > > > repeating > > > > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for > getting > > > > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known > as " Vedic > > > > > > astrology " these days! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > --- In , " pnrazdan " > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able > > to > > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on > > the > > > > basis > > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing > well > > now > > > > > > after > > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on > this > > > > event as > > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > > (Date of > > > > > > birth > > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, > > and > > > > Sun > > > > > > the > > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. > There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > bad > > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > > responses > > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a > mockery > > of > > > > the > > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query > > as > > > > to why > > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is > a > > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise > > astrological > > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost > faith > > on > > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > > > > fraud on > > > > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and > > culture. > > > > The > > > > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > > > > There > > > > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western > cities. > > New > > > > > > software has been developed which has demystified the > > knowledge > > > > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the > > subject.If > > > > the > > > > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the > > subject > > > > for > > > > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any > government > > nor > > > > to > > > > > > any individual's whims. > > > > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to > > prove > > > > VA > > > > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for > > fame > > > > even > > > > > > through wrong reasons. > > > > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to > > mark > > > > your > > > > > > posts as Spam. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In > > hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a > > Tamil > > > > Hindu > > > > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our > > outlook > > > > > > which > > > > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Dear Mr. Avtar Krishen Kaul, >>...and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest charlatan since he is supposed to have made correct predictions from the planetary data based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha!...<< And this is no doubt the greatest postulate of all times - and undocumented too... >>...also the " Greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century " . He also made correct predictions from incorrect data! Witness his " Notable Horoscopes " ...<< I guess you are talking about the late Dr. B.V. Raman here and the fact that he used the Raman-Ayanamsa. I have actually met Dr. B.V. Raman in person and had a long conversation with him, but you never met him, I guess... I wonder why you are showing so much disrespect and arrogance towards great hindu astrologers like these. You almost sound like a skeptic. Perhaps one of the followers of the American magician, James Randi. There is a debating-forum specially designed by James Randi for skeptics like you. Maybe you should try it! Very friendly, Finn Wandahl , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > Namaskar! > 1. Please read Koshur6.doc. We can compare notes again. > 2. Anybody who makes correct predictions from incorrect data is > definitely a charlatan and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest > charlatan since he is supposed to have made correct predictions > from the planetary data based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta > by Maya the mlechha! No wonder people like you bow before him after > one and a half millenium! > 3. In the last century itself we had also the " Greatest Vedic > astrologer of the twentieth century " . He also made correct > predictions from incorrect data! Witness his " Notable Horoscopes " - > - almost not even a single horoscope, including that of > the " greatest astrologer himself " in that book is correct! That is > why people bow before him even today! > 4. Tha half a dozen Parasharis that are floating around in the > market these days are the worst possible concoctions! The earliest > printed edition of Brihat Prashari (Venkateshwar Press, Bombay) > available as on date advises us to use Grahalaghava Ayanamsha. I > only hope you know when Grahlaghava was composed! > Thus uou seem to be ignorant of even the basic literature of the so > called phalita Jyotishashastra about which you are having a shastra- > artha! That is the real hall mark of " successful Vedic > astrologers " . Keep it up! > > With regards, > Avtar Krishen Kaul > , " pnrazdan " > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others by > > mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right > perspective:- > > To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy > which > > also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct > that > > his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy > > (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. > But > > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the > grandson > > of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which > > followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got > this > > knowledge from Brahma > > The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when this > > branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive > > techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent > origin > > and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much earlier > and > > are full of predictive tecniques. > > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as > an > > ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! > > Regards, > > P.N.Razdan > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > what I > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge > is > > > treated by jyotishis> > > > > > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how > ignorant > > > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > > > > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating > the > > > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and > > > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > > > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the > > > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > > > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into > India > > > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > > > > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest > > > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it > > > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most > > > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when > actually it > > > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced > by > > > any fraud in the world! > > > > > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya > Sidhanta > > > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, > he is > > > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed > that > > > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . > Even > > > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit > to > > > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > > > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > > > > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > > > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! > These > > > are already in the files section of this forum! > > > > > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > > > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > > > With regards, > > > AKK > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > what I > > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent > lost > > > faith > > > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > > treated > > > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient > teaching in > > > the > > > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up > with > > > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto > in > > > their > > > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group > approach, > > > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > > > altogether > > > > absent. > > > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, > broad > > > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far > and > > > that > > > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we > > > define > > > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and > not > > > the > > > > ancient knowledge. > > > > Regards, > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > , " Avtar > Krishen > > > Kaul " > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so > called > > > Vedic > > > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > > > attack > > > > > in your chart! > > > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would > not > > > have > > > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > > > repeating > > > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > > > > astrology " these days! > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able > to > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on > the > > > basis > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well > now > > > > > after > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > > > event as > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > (Date of > > > > > birth > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, > and > > > Sun > > > > > the > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There > is > > > no > > > > > bad > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > responses > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery > of > > > the > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query > as > > > to why > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise > astrological > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith > on > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > > > fraud on > > > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and > culture. > > > The > > > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > > > There > > > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. > New > > > > > software has been developed which has demystified the > knowledge > > > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the > subject.If > > > the > > > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the > subject > > > for > > > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government > nor > > > to > > > > > any individual's whims. > > > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to > prove > > > VA > > > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for > fame > > > even > > > > > through wrong reasons. > > > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to > mark > > > your > > > > > posts as Spam. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > --- In > hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a > Tamil > > > Hindu > > > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our > outlook > > > > > which > > > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Shri Finn Wandahl ji, Namaskar! <You almost sound like a skeptic. Perhaps one of the followers of the American magician, James Randi.> This is the only epithet that was not bestowwed on me till date though I have been dubbed as an Aryasamaji, a heretic and what not! Thanks for this new one! Anyway, it appears you have neither read the Surya Sidhanta nor the Brihat (Varahi) Samhita (of Varahamihira) nor Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram either! Once you go through them, you will come to know their " intrinsice value " -- which is not actually worth the paper they have been written on! In spite of claiming that " Vedic astrology (sic!) " was practised over the last several thousand years, these " Vedic astrologers " have yet to decide as to what ayanamsha serves as the real " proof of pudding " -- as the " greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century " used to say! I know " Vedic astrologers " will arrive at the corret ayanamsha, but may be it will take only about another million years! These " Vedic astrologers " may, therefore, catch larks when the sky falls! They must thus use some " Vedic astrology " to find out as to when the sky will fall so that they could cath some larks! Regards, AKK PS I may mention in the passing that I had the " good fortune " of seeing almost all the leading astrologers in person! However, I must admit I have yet to see you, which is not likely to happen in the near future! AKK , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl wrote: > > Dear Mr. Avtar Krishen Kaul, > > >>...and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest charlatan since he is > supposed to have made correct predictions from the planetary data > based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha!...<< > > And this is no doubt the greatest postulate of all times - and > undocumented too... > > >>...also the " Greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century " . He > also made correct predictions from incorrect data! Witness his > " Notable Horoscopes " ...<< > > I guess you are talking about the late Dr. B.V. Raman here and the > fact that he used the Raman-Ayanamsa. I have actually met Dr. B.V. > Raman in person and had a long conversation with him, but you never > met him, I guess... > > I wonder why you are showing so much disrespect and arrogance towards > great hindu astrologers like these. You almost sound like a skeptic. > Perhaps one of the followers of the American magician, James Randi. > There is a debating-forum specially designed by James Randi for > skeptics like you. Maybe you should try it! > > Very friendly, > Finn Wandahl > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > Namaskar! > > 1. Please read Koshur6.doc. We can compare notes again. > > 2. Anybody who makes correct predictions from incorrect data is > > definitely a charlatan and Varahamihira was certainly the greatest > > charlatan since he is supposed to have made correct predictions > > from the planetary data based on the most incorrect Surya Sidhanta > > by Maya the mlechha! No wonder people like you bow before him after > > one and a half millenium! > > 3. In the last century itself we had also the " Greatest Vedic > > astrologer of the twentieth century " . He also made correct > > predictions from incorrect data! Witness his " Notable Horoscopes " - > > - almost not even a single horoscope, including that of > > the " greatest astrologer himself " in that book is correct! That is > > why people bow before him even today! > > 4. Tha half a dozen Parasharis that are floating around in the > > market these days are the worst possible concoctions! The earliest > > printed edition of Brihat Prashari (Venkateshwar Press, Bombay) > > available as on date advises us to use Grahalaghava Ayanamsha. I > > only hope you know when Grahlaghava was composed! > > Thus uou seem to be ignorant of even the basic literature of the so > > called phalita Jyotishashastra about which you are having a shastra- > > artha! That is the real hall mark of " successful Vedic > > astrologers " . Keep it up! > > > > With regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > , " pnrazdan " > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > You seem to be either confused yourself or try to confuse others by > > > mixing up things. Let me put pieces in your mail in right > > perspective:- > > > To Sage Logadha is mainly attributed the knowledge of astronomy > > which > > > also serves as the basis of framing birth charts. It is correct > > that > > > his knowledge forms part of the Vedangas and reflects on astronomy > > > (and partly astrology) as a part of man’s holistic environment. > > But > > > the real knowledge of Jyotish comes from Rishi Parashara, the > > grandson > > > of Sage Vasisth of Ramayana period much earlier than Vedangas which > > > followed Vedas a thousand years later. Parashara reportedly got > > this > > > knowledge from Brahma > > > The Greek touch you refer is probably the Tajik astrology when this > > > branch of jyotish erupted in the muslim rule. Their predictive > > > techniques include the Varsha Phal and Suham. This is of recent > > origin > > > and bears no link to Sage Parashara's work which came much earlier > > and > > > are full of predictive tecniques. > > > Only a person of your prominence can call Varahmihra a fraud. I as > > an > > > ignorant person on this earth, bow before his knowledge ! > > > Regards, > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > > Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > > > < Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > > what I > > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent lost > > > > faith on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge > > is > > > > treated by jyotishis> > > > > > > > > I am surprised to read your statement which shows as to how > > ignorant > > > > you are about the real definition of jyotisha! > > > > > > > > Jyoisha as a Vedanga is meant as a methodology of caluclating > > the > > > > position of the Sun and Moon so that tithi, nkashtara, solar and > > > > lunar months could be caluclated properly for deciding proper > > > > timings of yajnyas! Acharya Lagadha's " Vedanga Jyotisha " is the > > > > firsst and the only indigenous work of this type calculated in > > > > Kashmir in 14th century BCE! Predictive gimmkicks came into > > India > > > > only with the advent of the Greeks! > > > > > > > > It may be news to you that Varhamahira was actually the greatest > > > > charlatan that India has ever produced since according to him it > > > > was " Spashtataro Savitrah " i.e. " The Surya Sidhanta is the most > > > > accurate work for calculating planetary longitudes " when > > actually it > > > > is the most inaccurate work that could ever have been produced > > by > > > > any fraud in the world! > > > > > > > > To crown it all, Maya the mlechha has said that the Surya > > Sidhanta > > > > was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan himself! In other words, > > he is > > > > one of the greatest liars since no Hindu Rishi has ever claimed > > that > > > > planetary longitudes were ever revealed to him by any " god " . > > Even > > > > the sidhanta-karas like Brahmagupta etc. have given due credit > > to > > > > their predecessor, but Maya the mlechha has misled the Hindu > > > > community by nose! And yo are no exception in being misled! > > > > > > > > I suggest yo go through some of my papers like " Koshur6.doc " ; > > > > rashi5.doc, rotary.doc etc. etc. to get a complete picture! > > These > > > > are already in the files section of this forum! > > > > > > > > Let me end this note with the famouse Kashmiri saying > > > > " Peeru kartam yariyah yeti paanu yeeru asakh " > > > > With regards, > > > > AKK > > > > , " pnrazdan " > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > > Had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that > > what I > > > > > said was about the predictive aspect of astrology. I havent > > lost > > > > faith > > > > > on this science but I do object to the way this knowledge is > > > > treated > > > > > by jyotishis. Instead of trying to explore the ancient > > teaching in > > > > the > > > > > way it was given by the sages, modern jyotishis are coming up > > with > > > > > bizarre and new theories trying to explain events post facto > > in > > > > their > > > > > own ways. A scientific approach to astrology like group > > approach, > > > > > model building, exploring statistical relationships etc. is > > > > altogether > > > > > absent. > > > > > Jyotish is wonderful in explaining the personality traits, > > broad > > > > > events of life, relationships and a host of other things but > > > > > unfortunately it has not stood the test of prediction so far > > and > > > > that > > > > > is the reason it is not getting into the scientific fold as we > > > > define > > > > > it presently. The fault lies in lack of our understanding and > > not > > > > the > > > > > ancient knowledge. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar > > Krishen > > > > Kaul " > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Razdan Sahib, > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > I was amused to see your following post in > > > > > > > > > > forum, admitting that you have lost all faith in the so > > called > > > > Vedic > > > > > > astrology since it had beeen unable to " foresee " your heart > > > > attack > > > > > > in your chart! > > > > > > Had these predictive gimmicks been really Vedic, you would > > not > > > > have > > > > > > been let dwon by " Vedic astrology " . > > > > > > Instead of running after jyotishis, I suggest you go on > > > > repeating > > > > > > Mahamrityunjaya Mantra daily at least 1008 times for getting > > > > > > amelioration and also waking up to the fraud known as " Vedic > > > > > > astrology " these days! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > --- In , " pnrazdan " > > > > > > <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I joined this group to-day in the hope that I shall be able > > to > > > > > > participate in the discussions on Vedic Astrology purely on > > the > > > > basis > > > > > > of ancient knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a heart attack on 1st. of Sept. 2007 but am doing well > > now > > > > > > after > > > > > > angioplasty. I would like the members to throw light on this > > > > event as > > > > > > my birth chart does not support any such heart ailment. > > (Date of > > > > > > birth > > > > > > 4th June 1939, Time 21:41:53 Place Srinagar Kashmir India > > > > > > 74E48,34N05) > > > > > > Fourth house the Kalpurusha defining heart is very strong, > > and > > > > Sun > > > > > > the > > > > > > Karaka for heart is the strongest planet in the chart. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > bad > > > > > > aspect to the fourth house. > > > > > > > > > > > > I put this question on a popular VA website but a dozen > > responses > > > > > > interpreted the event each in their own way making a mockery > > of > > > > the > > > > > > ancient astrology. I would like a simple answer to my query > > as > > > > to why > > > > > > has this basic conventional knowledge failed in my chart. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please make no predictions on my age and longevity which is a > > > > > > sensitive matter for me this time. Even otherwise > > astrological > > > > > > predictions are never correct and I have already lost faith > > on > > > > > > predictive aspect of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the greatest > > > > fraud on > > > > > > the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > > > > > Why are you hell bent on defaming Jyotisha? > > > > > > Vedic Astrology is a part of rich Hindu tradtion and > > culture. > > > > The > > > > > > nuances of VA have now been appreciated all the world over. > > > > There > > > > > > are VA associations in UK, America and other western cities. > > New > > > > > > software has been developed which has demystified the > > knowledge > > > > > > greatly and a lot of research is taking place on the > > subject.If > > > > the > > > > > > Congress and Leftists in India are not serious about the > > subject > > > > for > > > > > > fear of displeasing the minorities, it does not mean its > > > > > > irrelevance. Sanatan Dharam is not captive to any government > > nor > > > > to > > > > > > any individual's whims. > > > > > > Your posts are somewhat childish and an immature effort to > > prove > > > > VA > > > > > > theories as fuzzy. It smells of some unfulfilled wish for > > fame > > > > even > > > > > > through wrong reasons. > > > > > > If you continue to do the same, I shall be constrained to > > mark > > > > your > > > > > > posts as Spam. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > P.N.Razdan > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In > > hinducivilization , " neelakandanaravindan " > > > > > > <neelakandanaravindan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir Thank you very much, > > > > > > In fact another friend of mine has posted your msg in a > > Tamil > > > > Hindu > > > > > > forum where it is creating ripples. > > > > > > i am happy we Hindus are so diverse and pluralist in our > > outlook > > > > > > which > > > > > > differentiates us from memetic clones of Abrahamic cults > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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