Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

May 4, 2008

Dear Renuji,

Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand its

depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. Mostly

these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because he

summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th cent

CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have become

available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific training

and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are

they to be taken as idols?

What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,

Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable

credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking studies

on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so we

have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi

manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some

prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete without

nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex of

the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it

without the aid of Swara.

What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a tantric

precept. But how it can be proved by research?

Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in Jyotisha

is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer should

not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for

astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational basis

of Jyotisha?

No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in

Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual

jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological studies.

It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the

limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing it

with a live Jyotisham.

Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,

experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath and

the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand to

make a living Jyotisham.

Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be

outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for

enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not claim of

any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice and

publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what

we missed in making such wrong analysis.

chandra hari

May 4, 2008

Dear Chandra Hari ji,

You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a true cause. I get your message.

What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his research was baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not for Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them that Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in this era of evil and of immorality?

In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify the past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I feel that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test to find out which ayanamsa is correct.

'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the chart of a dead person"

Ancient precepts reveal some sense.

"Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong analysis"

If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have a deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons life. Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for days and days just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an individual??? They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel that is what we miss here.

blessings

Renu

, "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote:>> > Dear Renuji,> > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand its> depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. Mostly> these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because he> summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th cent> CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have become> available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific training> and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are> they to be taken as idols?> > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,> Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable> credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking studies> on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so we> have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi> manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?> > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some> prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete without> nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex of> the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it> without the aid of Swara.> > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a tantric> precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in Jyotisha> is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer should> not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for> astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational basis> of Jyotisha?> > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in> Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual> jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological studies. > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the> limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing it> with a live Jyotisham.> > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,> experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath and> the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand to> make a living Jyotisham.> > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be> outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for> enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not claim of> any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice and> publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what> we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > chandra hari>

May 4, 2008

Dear Renuji,

People got mesmerised by the so called case studies - the hits that all

meet with in practising astrology. Most of the people having little

exposure to research methodology fell prey to Rao's gimmicks thinking

that he is giving full proof methods of prediction. But see now in the

group on a blind reading - none is able to give a clear prediction on

Career, marriage, kids and anything else. Where all the published

researches have gone into hiding?

Rao will never even dare to attempt a blind reading as he knows his so

called published researches are all cooked up stories on the hits -

theories and research articulated later to impress the public. People

will soon realize that the hit movie he released in astrology is a flop

show...

chandra hari

, " renunw " <renunw

wrote:

>

> Dear Chandra Hari ji,

>

> You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a true cause. I

> get your message.

>

> What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books

> became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his

research

> was baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not

for

> Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them

that

> Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in

this

> era of evil and of immorality?

>

> In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify

the

> past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote

> relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I

> feel that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's

> play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test to

> find out which ayanamsa is correct.

>

> 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the

chart

> of a dead person "

>

> Ancient precepts reveal some sense.

>

> " Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and

> analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong

> analysis "

>

> If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have a

> deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons

> life. Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for

> days and days just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of

> an individual??? They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and

> I feel that is what we miss here.

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

>

> , " chandra_hari18 "

> chandra_hari18@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Renuji,

> >

> > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand

its

> > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development.

Mostly

> > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because

he

> > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th

cent

> > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have

> become

> > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific

training

> > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are

> > they to be taken as idols?

> >

> > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,

> > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable

> > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking

> studies

> > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so

we

> > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi

> > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

> >

> > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some

> > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete

without

> > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex

> of

> > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it

> > without the aid of Swara.

> >

> > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a

tantric

> > precept. But how it can be proved by research?

> >

> > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in

Jyotisha

> > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer

should

> > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for

> > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational

> basis

> > of Jyotisha?

> >

> > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in

> > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual

> > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological

> studies.

> > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the

> > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing

it

> > with a live Jyotisham.

> >

> > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,

> > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath

and

> > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand

to

> > make a living Jyotisham.

> >

> > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be

> > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for

> > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not

claim

> of

> > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice

and

> > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to

> what

> > we missed in making such wrong analysis.

> >

> > chandra hari

> >

>

May 4, 2008

Dear All,We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji and Chandra Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options prescribed for making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also includes a list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always perplexed, first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many options for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great name in astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!

We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to make. Then how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will most vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that there are gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we should keep checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we can see both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own conclusions.

We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the native. We cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with this. I would request all those who have participated to give the ayanamsha they've used for analysis. When collating the results for correctness and precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha used also.

Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one event of her life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly correct parameters. Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal promise, we can ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one pratyantar only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views about such blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an open policy....

I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:1) ayanamsha used 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)RegardsNeelam

2008/5/4 renunw <renunw:

Dear Chandra Hari ji,

You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a true cause. I get your message.

What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his research was baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not for Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them that Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in this era of evil and of immorality?

In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify the past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I feel that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test to find out which ayanamsa is correct.

'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the chart of a dead person "

Ancient precepts reveal some sense.

" Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong analysis "

If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have a deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons life. Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for days and days just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an individual??? They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel that is what we miss here.

blessings

Renu

, " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote:

>> > Dear Renuji,> > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand its> depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. Mostly> these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because he

> summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th cent> CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have become> available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific training

> and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are> they to be taken as idols?> > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,> Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable

> credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking studies> on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so we> have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi

> manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?> > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some> prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete without

> nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex of> the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it> without the aid of Swara.> > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a tantric

> precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in Jyotisha> is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer should

> not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for> astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational basis> of Jyotisha?> > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in

> Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual> jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological studies. > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the

> limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing it> with a live Jyotisham.> > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,> experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath and

> the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand to> make a living Jyotisham.> > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be> outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for

> enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not claim of> any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice and> publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what

> we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > chandra hari>

May 4, 2008

Dear Neelamhji,

Any use of 360 days for year is simply ignorance of the very basics of astronomy and astrology. In sidereal astrology (nirayana) only choice for the year is 365.2563624 days. Every graha is bound to Sun and solar revolution is reference and the arc is 360 degree. Lagnas also take circle of 360 degrees and not days. In 360 days sun travels only 355 degrees and 5 degs are left out. How the dasa-bhuktis derived based on 360 degree revolutions of Moon and also involving 360 deg revls of planets, can manifest on an year less by 5 degrees?

If anybody is using 360 days, its shows some handicap in thinking and reading. Savana year has nothing to do with Jyotisham. Only sidereal solar year has to be used. Some guy in the past may have speculated for 360 days but it is wrong.

chandra hari

, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear All,> > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji and Chandra> Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...> > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options prescribed for> making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also includes a> list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always perplexed,> first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many options> for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great name in> astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!> > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to make. Then> how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will most> vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that there are> gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we should keep> checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we can see> both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own conclusions.> > We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the native. We> cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with this.> I would request all those who have participated to give the ayanamsha> they've used for analysis. When collating the results for correctness and> precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha used also.> > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one event of her> life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly correct> parameters.> > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal promise, we can> ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one pratyantar> only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views about such> blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an open> policy....> > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:> 1) ayanamsha used> 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)> > Regards> > Neelam> > > > > > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw:> > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,> >> > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true cause*. I> > get your message.> >> > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books> > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his research was> > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not for> > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them that> > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in this era> > of evil and of immorality?> >> > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify the> > past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote> > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I feel> > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's> > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test to find> > out which ayanamsa is correct.> >> > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the chart of> > a dead person"> >> > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.> >> > "Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and> > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong> > analysis"> >> > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have a> > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons life.> > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for days and days> > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an individual???> > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel that is what> > we miss here.> >> > blessings> >> > Renu> >> >> > , "chandra_hari18"> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Renuji,> > >> > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand its> > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. Mostly> > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because he> > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th cent> > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have become> > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific training> > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are> > > they to be taken as idols?> > >> > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,> > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable> > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking studies> > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so we> > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi> > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?> > >> > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some> > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete without> > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex of> > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it> > > without the aid of Swara.> > >> > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a tantric> > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > >> > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in Jyotisha> > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer should> > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for> > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational basis> > > of Jyotisha?> > >> > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in> > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual> > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological studies.> > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the> > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing it> > > with a live Jyotisham.> > >> > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,> > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath and> > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand to> > > make a living Jyotisham.> > >> > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be> > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for> > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not claim of> > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice and> > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what> > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > > >>

May 4, 2008

||Jai Ramakrishna||

Dear Learned Members,

I had been following this group for the past few days, barring my

humble contribution to the exercise of blind chart.

There are some confusing topics in astrology:-

(1)Birthtime--Which time be considered be the time of birth?????When

the newborn cries for the first time??When he opens his eyes??When

the umbilicial cord is cut(thus getting a new identity)??

(2)Ayanamsha--Which ayanamsha to follow??Chitrapaksha or Raman??

There are 40 registered Ayanamshas in India & unregistered so

many.People having their own are claiming that only their ayanamsha

is working, rest are nothing but " s**t " .I just smile at all these &

recollect as once Shree Ramakrishna said, " Everyone in this world

considers that only his watch is showing the right time, while

others are incorrect. " He added, " The wise one adjusts the watch

according to the movement of Sun " .Everyone is having their own

Ayanamsha & trying to advocate them to others.

I personally follow CHitrapaksha Ayanamsha, & I dont i will change

from it, unless the almighty gives me a vision or any such events

happen.

(3)Year Lenghth of Vimshottari Dasa---how many days???365 days of

gregorian calendar or 360 days of indian solar calendar???or lunar

calendar??

We dont have any clue to it??Is that the reason why the results dont

fructify as per the prescribed time period??

(4)Replicable Researches--Which research is Replicable??Shree KN

Rao, I do respect him & appreciate his take against misconceptions

like KSY etc. But what about his criticism about others like Shree

BV Raman. It is he who requested Rao to write, & using that

platform, Rao is well know.But when Raman is dead & will not pounce

back, Rao started criticising Raman, & the reason was Ayanamsha.

Rao attimes considers himself as the best astrologer; we mortals are

no one to compare one astrologer to another, neither we are not

authorised to criticise others. Can we change those people by

criticising them????If the almighty wants, only then it will happen.

Who are subjected to the orders of almighty. We should follow our

duty as given to us.

(5)Birth Horoscope--- Many astrologers consider that India " was

born " on 15th August, 1947. Tell me onething, dint exist for 1000s

of years with its rich history & culture??Or suddenly it came up in

the world map???

Thank you,

http://gauravastro.150m.com

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji

and Chandra

> Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...

>

> We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options

prescribed for

> making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also

includes a

> list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always

perplexed,

> first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many

options

> for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great

name in

> astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!

>

> We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to

make. Then

> how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will

most

> vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that

there are

> gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we

should keep

> checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we

can see

> both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own

conclusions.

>

> We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the

native. We

> cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with

this.

> I would request all those who have participated to give the

ayanamsha

> they've used for analysis. When collating the results for

correctness and

> precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha

used also.

>

> Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one

event of her

> life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly

correct

> parameters.

>

> Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal

promise, we can

> ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one

pratyantar

> only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views

about such

> blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an

open

> policy....

>

> I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:

> 1) ayanamsha used

> 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)

>

> Regards

>

> Neelam

>

2008/5/4 renunw <renunw:

>

> > Dear Chandra Hari ji,

> >

> > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true

cause*. I

> > get your message.

> >

> > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his

books

> > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his

research was

> > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not

for

> > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside

them that

> > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled

in this era

> > of evil and of immorality?

> >

> > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to

clarify the

> > past events because one way or the other one can find even a

remote

> > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything.

Hence I feel

> > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's

> > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate

test to find

> > out which ayanamsa is correct.

> >

> > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch

the chart of

> > a dead person "

> >

> > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.

> >

> > " Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions

and

> > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such

wrong

> > analysis "

> >

> > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should

have a

> > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a

persons life.

> > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for

days and days

> > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an

individual???

> > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel

that is what

> > we miss here.

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

> > , " chandra_hari18 "

> > <chandra_hari18@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Renuji,

> > >

> > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not

understand its

> > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development.

Mostly

> > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi

because he

> > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times

(6th cent

> > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers

have become

> > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific

training

> > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming

Vachaspati. Are

> > > they to be taken as idols?

> > >

> > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla,

Munjala,

> > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of

unimaginable

> > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through

painstaking studies

> > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people

and so we

> > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some

hi-fi

> > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

> > >

> > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can

see some

> > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete

without

> > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict

the sex of

> > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted

it

> > > without the aid of Swara.

> > >

> > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a

tantric

> > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?

> > >

> > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in

Jyotisha

> > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer

should

> > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only

way for

> > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal,

operational basis

> > > of Jyotisha?

> > >

> > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding

studies in

> > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and

pseudospiritual

> > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological

studies.

> > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on

the

> > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of

replacing it

> > > with a live Jyotisham.

> > >

> > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and

time,

> > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the

breath and

> > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in

hand to

> > > make a living Jyotisham.

> > >

> > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must

be

> > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for

> > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should

not claim of

> > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the

practice and

> > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand

as to what

> > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.

> > >

> > > chandra hari

> > >

> >

>

May 4, 2008

Dear Chandra hari ji,If I am not mistaken, I think Sreenadh ji uses savana year for dasha calculations. He might like to clarify this. RegardsNeelam2008/5/4 chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18:

Dear Neelamhji,

Any use of 360 days for year is simply ignorance of the very basics of astronomy and astrology. In sidereal astrology (nirayana) only choice for the year is 365.2563624 days. Every graha is bound to Sun and solar revolution is reference and the arc is 360 degree. Lagnas also take circle of 360 degrees and not days. In 360 days sun travels only 355 degrees and 5 degs are left out. How the dasa-bhuktis derived based on 360 degree revolutions of Moon and also involving 360 deg revls of planets, can manifest on an year less by 5 degrees?

If anybody is using 360 days, its shows some handicap in thinking and reading. Savana year has nothing to do with Jyotisham. Only sidereal solar year has to be used. Some guy in the past may have speculated for 360 days but it is wrong.

chandra hari

, " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>> Dear All,> > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji and Chandra> Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...> > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options prescribed for

> making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also includes a> list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always perplexed,> first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many options

> for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great name in> astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!> > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to make. Then

> how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will most> vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that there are> gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we should keep

> checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we can see> both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own conclusions.> > We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the native. We

> cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with this.> I would request all those who have participated to give the ayanamsha> they've used for analysis. When collating the results for correctness and

> precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha used also.> > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one event of her> life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly correct

> parameters.> > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal promise, we can> ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one pratyantar> only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views about such

> blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an open> policy....> > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:> 1) ayanamsha used> 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)

> > Regards> > Neelam> > > > > > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw:> > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,

> >> > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true cause*. I> > get your message.> >> > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books> > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his research was

> > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not for> > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them that> > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in this era

> > of evil and of immorality?> >> > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify the> > past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote> > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I feel

> > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's> > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test to find> > out which ayanamsa is correct.> >

> > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the chart of> > a dead person " > >> > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.> >> > " Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and

> > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong> > analysis " > >> > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have a> > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons life.

> > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for days and days> > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an individual???> > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel that is what

> > we miss here.> >> > blessings> >> > Renu> >> >> > , " chandra_hari18 "

> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Renuji,> > >> > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand its> > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. Mostly

> > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because he> > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th cent> > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have become

> > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific training> > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are> > > they to be taken as idols?> > >

> > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,> > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable> > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking studies

> > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so we> > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi> > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?

> > >> > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some> > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete without> > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex of

> > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it> > > without the aid of Swara.> > >> > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a tantric

> > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > >> > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in Jyotisha> > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer should

> > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for> > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational basis> > > of Jyotisha?> > >

> > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in> > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual> > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological studies.

> > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the> > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing it> > > with a live Jyotisham.> > >

> > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,> > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath and> > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand to

> > > make a living Jyotisham.> > >> > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be> > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for

> > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not claim of> > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice and> > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what

> > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > > >>

May 4, 2008

Dear Chandra Hari ji,

i understand your angst at non-scientific approaches to astrology.

But then there are so many techniques, so many branches, so many

streams in this subject, that the approach of one may appear to be

un-scientific to the other.

i have met k.n. rao ji once at his residence around 4 yrs back. my

knowledge of astrology was as limited then as it is now. What

appealed to me was his very simple style of living. He looked almost

like an ascetic. He told me how during meditation one can

experience " separatedness " from the body. i think he said this in

all simplicity, without any boastfullness. he told me about the

importance of sadhana. He said astrology was not a subject worth

pursuing and it was spiritual pursuits that alone were important. He

also mentioned that had it not been for his guru he would not have

pursued astrology.

He was tapping away at his computer while talking....and though i

had not gone to him with any request for chart reading i don't

remember the sequence of events that led to casting of my chart on

the computer. i did not have any specific queries so he started

asking me questions. He wanted to know about the number of houses i

possessed. this took me a little by surprise, as i did not know what

prompted him to ask me this question. when i gave him the answer he

told be that it was not correct. he said i should have an ancenstral

property which i was not taking in the reckoning.

There was an ancestral house where two of my brothers resided. Since

i was the only sister among four brothers the thought never occured

to me that i too could be an owner of this property. When K.N. Rao

ji said that i would inherit money from this property it appeared

something of an impossibility.

As it happened, there was a sudden turn of events and within one

year or so his prediction came out to be absolutely true.

i am still flummoxed how he managed to predict so accurately and

without any specific query from me.

this was certainly not a postmortem analysis!!!

i consider myself fortunate to have had this experience. i am not

saying in the least that k.n. Rao jis's predictions may always be

right, or his techniques may be the most scientific ones. Even on

this forum there are instances when people have made absolutely

correct predictions following whatever ayanamsha or system or

technique they choose to follow. Obviously, there is no one method

or technique in astrology.

So let us find some space in our heart for others and not condemn

them as charlatans no matter how unscientific their methods may

appear to be.

Afterall, though some may have torches brighter than others, these

are only artificial sources of light that make shadows dance even

more vigorously distracting us from the one and only source of light

that is worth pursuing....

In your very own words this is none other than Shiva / Shivani.

Regards

May 4, 2008

Dear Vintaji,

Your experience is fine. I have a different experience of someone whom

you describe as ascetic.

1. It was Sri KN Rao who introduced me and my study in BVB classes in

early 1990s.

2. I have passed 18 years since then studying astrology and astronomy

and I have some good publications including Panchanga published in

Malayalam with remarkable annual predictions which came true.

3. My work on ayanamsa is not speculations as with other cases. My proof

based on Suryasiddhanta for Muladhara Chakra and my antithesis on

Lahiri-Saha work have been published in scientific journals.

4. 23 year old guy who is into making money from Jyotisha (in his

infancy in astrology) has the indolence to criticise me on ayanamsa

without caring to read or putting any effort to understand as to what

really is the Zodiac. With such people I can't discuss ayanamsa problem.

But Sri KN Rao was one man who could have understood my work and

realized that it is the truth. But he never replied to my

communications, never gave his opinion on my works - because he could

not have denied this and he wanted to keep my work out of the reaches of

BVB students.

5. Rao's antagonism to my works had its source in my criticism of his

researches which got published once in AM and others which I have

communicated to him directly. He never replied or admitted that some

mistake has occurred.

6. Someone who adds spurious contents to a topic like Jyotisha and an

astrologer claiming to be the biggest researcher closing his eyes to my

scientific papers on ayanamsa is a mystery. Real factor that made him

averse to my work is the fact that the true ayanamsa will make an expose

of many of the so called researches he has published.

7. When I mailed him the MBhaga research and implications of true

ayanamsa he had given me a mail and desired that more such studies may

be made.

8. But when I approached him with my work to have a lecture at BVB, he

said, you write a book on Jyotisha also and then come. What do you

think of his suggestion? I could disprove the CRC report under which his

ayanamsa was born and publish a paper and to present the same he wanted

me to write a book on postmortem analysis. How funny is his scientific

mind?

9. I am in this field of astrology and I know how many people handle

Jyotisha with the mind of an ascetic.

Jyotisha is divine wisdom and none have any copy right on it. Just

because some classical principles are twisted and stretched one does not

become Rishi. In fact such people sow confusion by adding spurious

contents to Arsha wisdom. Let us not worship false Gods - we can learn

Jyotisha by the grace of Bhavani and she is the Great Mother and Guru. I

want that this must go into the young minds...

chandra hari

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Dear Chandra Hari ji,

>

> i understand your angst at non-scientific approaches to astrology.

> But then there are so many techniques, so many branches, so many

> streams in this subject, that the approach of one may appear to be

> un-scientific to the other.

>

> i have met k.n. rao ji once at his residence around 4 yrs back. my

> knowledge of astrology was as limited then as it is now. What

> appealed to me was his very simple style of living. He looked almost

> like an ascetic. He told me how during meditation one can

> experience " separatedness " from the body. i think he said this in

> all simplicity, without any boastfullness. he told me about the

> importance of sadhana. He said astrology was not a subject worth

> pursuing and it was spiritual pursuits that alone were important. He

> also mentioned that had it not been for his guru he would not have

> pursued astrology.

>

> He was tapping away at his computer while talking....and though i

> had not gone to him with any request for chart reading i don't

> remember the sequence of events that led to casting of my chart on

> the computer. i did not have any specific queries so he started

> asking me questions. He wanted to know about the number of houses i

> possessed. this took me a little by surprise, as i did not know what

> prompted him to ask me this question. when i gave him the answer he

> told be that it was not correct. he said i should have an ancenstral

> property which i was not taking in the reckoning.

>

> There was an ancestral house where two of my brothers resided. Since

> i was the only sister among four brothers the thought never occured

> to me that i too could be an owner of this property. When K.N. Rao

> ji said that i would inherit money from this property it appeared

> something of an impossibility.

>

> As it happened, there was a sudden turn of events and within one

> year or so his prediction came out to be absolutely true.

>

> i am still flummoxed how he managed to predict so accurately and

> without any specific query from me.

>

> this was certainly not a postmortem analysis!!!

>

> i consider myself fortunate to have had this experience. i am not

> saying in the least that k.n. Rao jis's predictions may always be

> right, or his techniques may be the most scientific ones. Even on

> this forum there are instances when people have made absolutely

> correct predictions following whatever ayanamsha or system or

> technique they choose to follow. Obviously, there is no one method

> or technique in astrology.

>

> So let us find some space in our heart for others and not condemn

> them as charlatans no matter how unscientific their methods may

> appear to be.

>

> Afterall, though some may have torches brighter than others, these

> are only artificial sources of light that make shadows dance even

> more vigorously distracting us from the one and only source of light

> that is worth pursuing....

>

> In your very own words this is none other than Shiva / Shivani.

>

> Regards

>

May 4, 2008

5)Birth Horoscope--- Many astrologers consider that India "wasborn" on 15th August, 1947. Tell me onething, dint exist for 1000sof years with its rich history & culture??Or suddenly it came up inthe world map???

What about you Gaurav? You have suddenly appeared on the world map as ?

May be you are also eternal but still you celebrate your birthday?

Same logic people apply to Indian Democratic Republic and they make chart for the muhurtha of political transformation from British India to Independent India.

Regarding other questions you have, to understand the answers please have a sound reading in all related areas. Do you have the potential to understand ayanamsa issue? If yes, I can give you the answer now. But then you must study and present the pros and cons/merits of the work truthfully before the public. I will give you papers published in scientific journals after refereeing by best of professors. Are you ready to make an attempt?

chandra hari

, "" <gaurav.ghosh wrote:>> ||Jai Ramakrishna||> Dear Learned Members,> I had been following this group for the past few days, barring my > humble contribution to the exercise of blind chart.> There are some confusing topics in astrology:-> (1)Birthtime--Which time be considered be the time of birth?????When > the newborn cries for the first time??When he opens his eyes??When > the umbilicial cord is cut(thus getting a new identity)??> (2)Ayanamsha--Which ayanamsha to follow??Chitrapaksha or Raman??> There are 40 registered Ayanamshas in India & unregistered so > many.People having their own are claiming that only their ayanamsha > is working, rest are nothing but "s**t".I just smile at all these & > recollect as once Shree Ramakrishna said, "Everyone in this world > considers that only his watch is showing the right time, while > others are incorrect." He added,"The wise one adjusts the watch > according to the movement of Sun".Everyone is having their own > Ayanamsha & trying to advocate them to others.> I personally follow CHitrapaksha Ayanamsha, & I dont i will change > from it, unless the almighty gives me a vision or any such events > happen.> (3)Year Lenghth of Vimshottari Dasa---how many days???365 days of > gregorian calendar or 360 days of indian solar calendar???or lunar > calendar??> We dont have any clue to it??Is that the reason why the results dont > fructify as per the prescribed time period??> (4)Replicable Researches--Which research is Replicable??Shree KN > Rao, I do respect him & appreciate his take against misconceptions > like KSY etc. But what about his criticism about others like Shree > BV Raman. It is he who requested Rao to write, & using that > platform, Rao is well know.But when Raman is dead & will not pounce > back, Rao started criticising Raman, & the reason was Ayanamsha.> Rao attimes considers himself as the best astrologer; we mortals are > no one to compare one astrologer to another, neither we are not > authorised to criticise others. Can we change those people by > criticising them????If the almighty wants, only then it will happen. > Who are subjected to the orders of almighty. We should follow our > duty as given to us.> (5)Birth Horoscope--- Many astrologers consider that India "was > born" on 15th August, 1947. Tell me onething, dint exist for 1000s > of years with its rich history & culture??Or suddenly it came up in > the world map???> Thank you,> > http://gauravastro.150m.com> , "neelam gupta" > neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > > > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji > and Chandra> > Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...> > > > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options > prescribed for> > making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also > includes a> > list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always > perplexed,> > first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many > options> > for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great > name in> > astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!> > > > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to > make. Then> > how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will > most> > vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that > there are> > gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we > should keep> > checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we > can see> > both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own > conclusions.> > > > We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the > native. We> > cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with > this.> > I would request all those who have participated to give the > ayanamsha> > they've used for analysis. When collating the results for > correctness and> > precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha > used also.> > > > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one > event of her> > life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly > correct> > parameters.> > > > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal > promise, we can> > ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one > pratyantar> > only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views > about such> > blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an > open> > policy....> > > > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:> > 1) ayanamsha used> > 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)> > > > Regards> > > > Neelam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw@:> > > > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,> > >> > > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true > cause*. I> > > get your message.> > >> > > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his > books> > > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his > research was> > > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not > for> > > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside > them that> > > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled > in this era> > > of evil and of immorality?> > >> > > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to > clarify the> > > past events because one way or the other one can find even a > remote> > > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. > Hence I feel> > > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's> > > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate > test to find> > > out which ayanamsa is correct.> > >> > > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch > the chart of> > > a dead person"> > >> > > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.> > >> > > "Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions > and> > > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such > wrong> > > analysis"> > >> > > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should > have a> > > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a > persons life.> > > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for > days and days> > > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an > individual???> > > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel > that is what> > > we miss here.> > >> > > blessings> > >> > > Renu> > >> > >> > > , "chandra_hari18"> > > <chandra_hari18@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Renuji,> > > >> > > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not > understand its> > > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. > Mostly> > > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi > because he> > > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times > (6th cent> > > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers > have become> > > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific > training> > > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming > Vachaspati. Are> > > > they to be taken as idols?> > > >> > > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, > Munjala,> > > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of > unimaginable> > > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through > painstaking studies> > > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people > and so we> > > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some > hi-fi> > > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?> > > >> > > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can > see some> > > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete > without> > > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict > the sex of> > > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted > it> > > > without the aid of Swara.> > > >> > > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a > tantric> > > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > > >> > > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in > Jyotisha> > > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer > should> > > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only > way for> > > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, > operational basis> > > > of Jyotisha?> > > >> > > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding > studies in> > > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and > pseudospiritual> > > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological > studies.> > > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on > the> > > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of > replacing it> > > > with a live Jyotisham.> > > >> > > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and > time,> > > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the > breath and> > > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in > hand to> > > > make a living Jyotisham.> > > >> > > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must > be> > > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for> > > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should > not claim of> > > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the > practice and> > > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand > as to what> > > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > > >> > > > chandra hari> > > >> > > > > >> >>

May 5, 2008

||Jai Ramakrishna||

Dear Shree Chandrahariji,

Yes, the mortal body suddenly appeared in the world map, but the soul is

eternal. The world is also mortal thats why Adi Shankaracharya said in

half sloka, " Brahma satya, jaganmitthya, jivo brahmaiva naapara " .

FYI....i dont celebrate my birthday!!cause its the birth of the mortal

body, not the atman!!Atman is nitya, buddha, mukta & shuddha.

Regarding ayanamsha issue, you jus misunderstood considering that I

criticised you. You are much older than me, so why shall I criticise

you??I humbly said that I follow chitrapaksha ayanamsha, & unless some

circumstances arise, I will continue such practise.

What you noticed frm my website is jus commercialisation of Jyotish

(i.e. offering paid services) & termed it as infancy. You are free to

tell anything & whatever you want to speak. You always have the liberty

as Article 21 of Indian COnstitution granted you that right. But before

making any comment, remember that i told you the reason for paid service

through our private mails.

Thank you,

, " chandra_hari18 "

<chandra_hari18 wrote:

>

> 5)Birth Horoscope--- Many astrologers consider that India " was

> born " on 15th August, 1947. Tell me onething, dint exist for 1000s

> of years with its rich history & culture??Or suddenly it came up in

> the world map???

>

> What about you Gaurav? You have suddenly appeared on the world map as

> ?

>

> May be you are also eternal but still you celebrate your birthday?

>

> Same logic people apply to Indian Democratic Republic and they make

> chart for the muhurtha of political transformation from British India

to

> Independent India.

>

> Regarding other questions you have, to understand the answers please

> have a sound reading in all related areas. Do you have the potential

to

> understand ayanamsa issue? If yes, I can give you the answer now. But

> then you must study and present the pros and cons/merits of the work

> truthfully before the public. I will give you papers published in

> scientific journals after refereeing by best of professors. Are you

> ready to make an attempt?

>

> chandra hari

>

May 5, 2008

Dear Neelam ji,

I also feel that we should keep checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we can see both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own conclusions.

An excellent suggestion.......application will be the only mode of checking which ayanamsha is correct. Hope the blind chart given by you will lead us to some conclusion regarding this as we know both ayanamsas have been used for analyses.

I have used Lahiri Ayansamsa and 365.2425 days.

blessings

Renu---

May 5, 2008

Dear Vinita ji & Chandra Hari ji,

I understand that you both have good material to support your views

for/against Sri K. N. Rao. I have read most of Rao ji's books and if I

may use Chandra Hari ji's words....I was mesmerised by the contents. I

have got predictions for my son and daughter from him regarding their

professions....and my daughter's has come true. Yet to see my son's. I

am far away from India and I have not had the opportunity of meeting

him, like both of you....hence I cannot say anything about him other

than what his writings reveal. I have seen his humility through his

writings. I have also seen his one specific weakness too, which kept me

wondering at times. But of course, none are perfect in this world.

On the other hand I clearly get the message that Chandra Hari ji is

trying to give us. I admire Chandra Hari ji, your spirit and dedication.

I like your boldness and sincerity. I agree with you when you say that a

good astrologer would never boast about his correct predictions. Now let

me reveal my weakness as a mother too. I use Lahiri Ayanamsa. But if I

use Chandra Hari Ayanamsa, my daughter's both Venus and Saturn get

exalted and also my son's debilitated Venus in navamsa gets back to Leo

sign. So I wish that Chandra Hari ayanamsa is more accurate:))

Sorry....for bringing out something personal....I just wanted to show

how weak at times we can be as mortals and especially as mothers.

Anyway this is not a battle between Rao ji Vs. Chandra Hari ji. If any

advancement is brought to the subject of astrology by anyone, that

should be our concern.

'Time' is a good test to reveal the truth at the end. Let's work for

that as Neelam ji has suggested and wait patiently till the dawn of that

day. Hope we will not have to wait till eternity:)