Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Sreeram ji, Thanks for the news and the details. I have done some research on combinations in a twin's chart. This case appears to have similar combination as well. My write-up will be published shortly. Regards, Krishna --- On Sun, 13/7/08, sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote: sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 Twins_Chart Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 1:31 PM Twins_Chart Dear members, For those with interests in glamour world......Bradpitt 's current wife  Angelina Jolie has given birth to a girl and a boy at Paris, France shortly before 20:00 hrs, Saturday night at NICE, Southern City of  France { 18:00 hrs  GMT or 04:00 hrs AEST Sunday}.   The first was a girl, then a boy - Ceasarian births. Longitude of Nice, France :  7 15 E Latitude of Nice, France   :  43 42 N Source: http://afp.google. com/article/ ALeqM5hvSqBTfV3u lUnPBDQS0eJoRXKo TQ Learning Lesson : 1) See for parents popularity reflection 2) See for parents financial status or inheritance of it 3) See for adopted co-borns, for the parents have been known to have adopted few orphans 4) The details of the co-born including adopted are Maddox, 6; Pax, 4; Zahara, 3, and       Shiloh, 2. { do not know for sure who are the adopted one's in these} With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite group at http://in.promos./groups/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Sreeram Ji and All, I am repeating my previous question for which i am trying find some answers from the learned members out here.. You wrote: //The first was a girl, then a boy - Ceasarian births.// If these were being born by caesarian birth, the 2nd one would have been removed from the uterus first and the first one later! That changes the birth order entirely! then how do we consider who is elder and who is younger? Regards Chandu2Chill , " sreeram srinivas " <sreeram64 wrote: > > Twins_Chart > > Dear members, > > For those with interests in glamour world......Bradpitt's current wife > Angelina Jolie <http://omg./celebs/angelina-jolie/2> has given > birth to a girl and a boy at Paris, France shortly before 20:00 hrs, > Saturday night at NICE, Southern City of France { 18:00 hrs GMT or > 04:00 hrs AEST Sunday}. The first was a girl, then a boy - Ceasarian > births. > > Longitude of Nice, France : 7 15 E > > Latitude of Nice, France : 43 42 N > > > Source: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvSqBTfV3ulUnPBDQS0eJoRXKoTQ > <http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvSqBTfV3ulUnPBDQS0eJoRXKoTQ> > > Learning Lesson : > > 1) See for parents popularity reflection > > 2) See for parents financial status or inheritance of it > > 3) See for adopted co-borns, for the parents have been known to have > adopted few orphans > > 4) The details of the co-born including adopted are Maddox, 6; Pax, 4; > Zahara, 3, and Shiloh, 2. { do not know for sure who are the > adopted one's in these} > > With regards, > > Sreeram_Srinivas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Namaste friends, Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval between births of twins as above? A.V.Pathi, sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:33:30 AM Re: Twins_Chart Namaste madam ji,In a caesarean, possible to have same time, may be some split seconddifference may be possible,... ..just stated the details available... restis for others to think and use.....with regards,Sreeram_Srinivasancient_indian_ astrology, "renunw" <renunwwrote:Dear Sreeram ji,Do you mean to say that the birth times of the twins are the same?blessingsRenu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Pathiji, Namaste. I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got through. The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where consensus is genrally not met with. But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets which throw them around. best wishes, Bhaskar. , venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote:>> Namaste friends,> > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval between births of twins as above?> > A.V.Pathi, > > > > > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64 > Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:33:30 AM> Re: Twins_Chart> > > > Namaste madam ji,> > In a caesarean, possible to have same time, may be some split second> difference may be possible,... ..just stated the details available... rest> is for others to think and use.....> > with regards,> > Sreeram_Srinivas> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "renunw" renunw@> wrote:> > Dear Sreeram ji,> > Do you mean to say that the birth times of the twins are the same?> > blessings> > Renu> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Chandu, Hello.The child who comes out first would naturally breath first,because there is a difference of few seconds betweenthe child coming out of the womb, severing the umblicalchord, and the first cry of the child, which is also its first breath ( It may not cry always, but breathing would start or be made to start by the Doctor) .So the child who comes out first is naturallyconsidered to be the elder ). For all astrological purpsoses the birth time of any bodywho is older, is considered as elder to the person born later. In the above, we remove the Padvi part. For example suppose I have a colleauge who is a girl and younger tome by a few months or 1-2 years. But as soon as she is married to my elder Brother, she becomes my Elder Bhabhi. But in astrology calculations are done on the time of Birth. The "Padvi" factor does not count in this determination. regards,Bhaskar. --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Mr. Chandu2Chill, As I said before My medical knowledge is limited to headache & use of disprin. To me the one who first comes into this world is the eldest. In this case of Angelina Jolie, the doctor who supervised the Ceasarean operation knows better, I just went with media reports and contents there in. With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , " Chandu2chill " <nanna_id2006 wrote: Dear Sreeram Ji and All, If these were being born by caesarian birth, the 2nd one would have been removed from the uterus first and the first one later! That changes the birth order entirely! then how do we consider who is elder and who is younger? Regards Chandu2Chill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Mr. Pathi.A.V. ji, I go by the fact that the one who comes out first from the mother's womb is the time. Rest medical doctors would be better to explain or hear from them. With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: Namaste friends, Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval between births of twins as above? A.V.Pathi, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Natal Rectification Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best when the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible. Meta Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a few minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.) The Natal Finder As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the importance of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the Natal Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each possible natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on the sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is not dominating the peak. To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The examples include people and groups with both well documented natal times and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to the list, please send the suggestions to mlc. An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing appropriate significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate for use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used then the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5 events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ± 45 minutes about the initial time. Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the Rectification Examples page and the list at the left. ============= My note to Mr. Bhaskar, Namaste The above I found from 'GOOGLE " www.metalifecycles.com. I will be pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath of the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time. Sound may come later. Regards. A.V.Pathi, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM Re: Twins_Chart Dear Pathiji, Namaste. I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got through. The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where consensus is genrally not met with. But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets which throw them around. best wishes, Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: > > Namaste friends, > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval between births of twins as above? > > A.V.Pathi, > > > > > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64@.. . > ancient_indian_ astrology > Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:33:30 AM > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart > > > > Namaste madam ji, > > In a caesarean, possible to have same time, may be some split second > difference may be possible,... ..just stated the details available... rest > is for others to think and use..... > > with regards, > > Sreeram_Srinivas > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " renunw " renunw@ > wrote: > > Dear Sreeram ji, > > Do you mean to say that the birth times of the twins are the same? > > blessings > > Renu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Shri Pathiji. Namaste. I visited the site, and it would take some time to read it and understand it, so commenting on it presently, would not be right from my side. For birth rectification we have a simple method taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth, through the Ruling Planets or the planetary configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer. There is no need here to verify any event from the natives side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of the native, whose chart is in consideration. This is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by the astrologer, and at other times it may take him 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the configurations when he first sat to rectify this birth time. I have been through these discussions with great masters, so I know that the first breath is considered as the right moment to be noted down as the actual Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill. Thanks for reverting back with this info. regards, Bhaskar. , venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: > > Natal Rectification > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best when the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible. Meta Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a few minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.) > The Natal Finder > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the importance of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the Natal Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each possible natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on the sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is not dominating the peak. > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The examples include people and groups with both well documented natal times and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to the list, please send the suggestions to mlc > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing appropriate significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate for use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used then the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5 events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ± 45 minutes about the initial time. > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the Rectification Examples page and the list at the left. > ============= > My note to Mr. Bhaskar, > Namaste > The above I found from 'GOOGLE " www.metalifecycles.com. I will be pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath of the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time. Sound may come later. Regards. > > > A.V.Pathi, > > > > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM > Re: Twins_Chart > > > Dear Pathiji, > Namaste. > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got through. > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where consensus is genrally not met with. > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets which throw them around. > best wishes, > Bhaskar. > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi pathiav@ wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval between births of twins as above? > > > > A.V.Pathi, > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64@ . > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:33:30 AM > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart > > > > > > > > Namaste madam ji, > > > > In a caesarean, possible to have same time, may be some split second > > difference may be possible,... ..just stated the details available... rest > > is for others to think and use..... > > > > with regards, > > > > Sreeram_Srinivas > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " renunw " renunw@ > > wrote: > > > > Dear Sreeram ji, > > > > Do you mean to say that the birth times of the twins are the same? > > > > blessings > > > > Renu > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Learned astrologers, Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of Astrology. " No need to verify Native's life events with rectified Birth Time " sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish the rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!! For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath of new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what is 1st breath is again a matter of controversy. Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous. the time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows ? how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal charts of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH. Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method / theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native. Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method of predictions. Naidu KP --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote: Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 10:26 PM Dear Shri Pathiji. Namaste. I visited the site, and it would take some time to read it and understand it, so commenting on it presently, would not be right from my side. For birth rectification we have a simple method taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth, through the Ruling Planets or the planetary configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer. There is no need here to verify any event from the natives side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of the native, whose chart is in consideration. This is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by the astrologer, and at other times it may take him 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the configurations when he first sat to rectify this birth time. I have been through these discussions with great masters, so I know that the first breath is considered as the right moment to be noted down as the actual Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill. Thanks for reverting back with this info. regards, Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi <pathiav > wrote: > > Natal Rectification > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best when the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible. Meta Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a few minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.) > The Natal Finder > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the importance of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the Natal Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each possible natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on the sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is not dominating the peak. > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The examples include people and groups with both well documented natal times and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to the list, please send the suggestions to mlc > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing appropriate significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate for use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used then the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5 events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ± 45 minutes about the initial time. > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the Rectification Examples page and the list at the left. > ============ = > My note to Mr. Bhaskar, > Namaste > The above I found from 'GOOGLE " www.metalifecycles. com. I will be pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath of the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time. Sound may come later. Regards. > > > A.V.Pathi, > > > > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ... > ancient_indian_ astrology > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart > > > Dear Pathiji, > Namaste. > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got through. > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where consensus is genrally not met with. > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets which throw them around. > best wishes, > Bhaskar. > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi pathiav@ wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval between births of twins as above? > > > > A.V.Pathi, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Shri KP Naidu, Sir Isaac newton , it is saidwas once ridiculed by someone for his belief in the predictive Branch. He cooly replied " I havestudied Astrology' You have not. Thats sums up Your negation of The Ruling Planets method of rectification of birth as " Not meaningful, not reasonable, Doubtful ". use of stehoscope in determining the first breath is a highly funny suggestion, never heard of, in any astrology debate, uptil now, by any of us. It is understood that if the child lives, then the first breath recorded, was perfect. There is No TRUTH as suggested by You. That is not the truth. If a person lives in a village whole is Life never having access to multistoreyed buildings, does not mean that there are no Ski Highy Scrapers of 110 Storeys in India. This may be a evolution process for you. But not to me, and thousands who have studied. Horary Charts are resorted to not just only because of incorrect birth times, but also because of temporary queries which cannotbe gauged from the Birth Chart. Logic must come before negation. Stating and judgements are not justified without Logic and a good experience in all the available facets of the approaches of this Divine science. Because I have not studied a particular approach, does not give me a right to negate it. I am sorry, Your mail stinks of some inferiority complexes and lack of discipline and better levels unacheived in this science .............. othersiw this negation would not have come. Please come back to me only after studying this approach with your judgements on this. Period. Bhaskar. , "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan wrote:>> > Dear Learned astrologers,> > > Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of Astrology. "No need to verify Native's life events with rectified Birth Time" sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish the rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!!> > > For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath of new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what is 1st breath is again a matter of controversy.> Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous. the time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows ?> > how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal charts of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH.> > Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method / theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native.> > Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method of predictions.> > Naidu KP> > --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises wrote:> > Bhaskar rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart> > Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 10:26 PM> > > Dear Shri Pathiji.> > Namaste.> > I visited the site, and it would take some time to> read it and understand it, so commenting on it> presently, would not be right from my side.> > For birth rectification we have a simple method> taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the> birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth,> through the Ruling Planets or the planetary> configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer.> There is no need here to verify any event from the natives> side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the> astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of> the native, whose chart is in consideration. This> is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise> by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At> times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by> the astrologer, and at other times it may take him> 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set> of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the> configurations when he first sat to> rectify this birth time.> > I have been through these discussions with great> masters, so I know that the first breath is considered> as the right moment to be noted down as the actual> Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which> I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill.> > Thanks for reverting back with this info.> > regards,> Bhaskar.> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> pathiav@ > wrote:> >> > Natal Rectification> > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best when> the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible. Meta> Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a few> minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.)> > The Natal Finder> > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the importance> of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been> created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the Natal> Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of> individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each possible> natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on the> sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a> persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to> the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is> not dominating the peak.> > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of> Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The> examples include people and groups with both well documented natal times> and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the> Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to the> list, please send the suggestions to mlc@> > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing appropriate> significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate for> use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events> page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used then> the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5> events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ± 45> minutes about the initial time.> > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the> Rectification Examples page and the list at the left.> >> ============ => > My note to Mr. Bhaskar,> > Namaste> > The above I found from 'GOOGLE" www.metalifecycles. com. I will be> pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke> Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath of> the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time.> Sound may come later. Regards.> >> >> > A.V.Pathi,> >> >> >> >> > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart> >> >> > Dear Pathiji,> > Namaste.> > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got> through.> > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where> consensus is genrally not met with.> > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when> the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the> atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets> which throw them around.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> pathiav@ wrote:> > >> > > Namaste friends,> > >> > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for> astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a> portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or> the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the> interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was> not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be> confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one> Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval> between births of twins as above?> > >> > > A.V.Pathi,> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 hare rama krishna dear K P Naidu ji Your name also has KP in it ,still u hav aversion for KP astrology . Any way diffrnt acharyas asked us to take diffrnt time as BT some says first breath ,some says first cry ,some say bhoo sparsha and some says cuttin of ambilical cord . But that is not the core of discussion here .As every one can find his own truth and follow it and its wat is happening in india where we hav 100s of dasa systems even . Here wat bhaskar ji mentioned is no need to go and verify every time the events in life means he has perfected a method which is giving him results . If u hav a SW and u find 1000s of time it givs correct planetary positions will u go and re check every time with panchanga and do all calculations manualy 1001 th time too . hope u got the essense of discussion and my post we giv respect to all systems which is of indian origin and pls think KP system is also offshoot of indian astrological science. ( Tho i am a traditional astrologer ) regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah . , "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan wrote:>> > Dear Learned astrologers,> > > Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of Astrology. "No need to verify Native's life events with rectified Birth Time" sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish the rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!!> > > For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath of new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what is 1st breath is again a matter of controversy.> Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous. the time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows ?> > how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal charts of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH.> > Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method / theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native.> > Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method of predictions.> > Naidu KP> > --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises wrote:> > Bhaskar rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart> > Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 10:26 PM> > > Dear Shri Pathiji.> > Namaste.> > I visited the site, and it would take some time to> read it and understand it, so commenting on it> presently, would not be right from my side.> > For birth rectification we have a simple method> taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the> birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth,> through the Ruling Planets or the planetary> configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer.> There is no need here to verify any event from the natives> side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the> astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of> the native, whose chart is in consideration. This> is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise> by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At> times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by> the astrologer, and at other times it may take him> 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set> of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the> configurations when he first sat to> rectify this birth time.> > I have been through these discussions with great> masters, so I know that the first breath is considered> as the right moment to be noted down as the actual> Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which> I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill.> > Thanks for reverting back with this info.> > regards,> Bhaskar.> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> pathiav@ > wrote:> >> > Natal Rectification> > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best when> the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible. Meta> Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a few> minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.)> > The Natal Finder> > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the importance> of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been> created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the Natal> Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of> individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each possible> natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on the> sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a> persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to> the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is> not dominating the peak.> > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of> Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The> examples include people and groups with both well documented natal times> and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the> Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to the> list, please send the suggestions to mlc@> > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing appropriate> significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate for> use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events> page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used then> the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5> events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ± 45> minutes about the initial time.> > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the> Rectification Examples page and the list at the left.> >> ============ => > My note to Mr. Bhaskar,> > Namaste> > The above I found from 'GOOGLE" www.metalifecycles. com. I will be> pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke> Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath of> the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time.> Sound may come later. Regards.> >> >> > A.V.Pathi,> >> >> >> >> > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart> >> >> > Dear Pathiji,> > Namaste.> > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got> through.> > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where> consensus is genrally not met with.> > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when> the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the> atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets> which throw them around.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> pathiav@ wrote:> > >> > > Namaste friends,> > >> > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for> astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a> portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or> the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the> interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was> not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be> confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one> Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval> between births of twins as above?> > >> > > A.V.Pathi,> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear all, I have used the Ruling Planets approach from the KP system, liberally and illustrated with Live examples to the natives coming in with Queries on the various Forums. those who are interested may search for these mails on the various Forums. But i do not have to prove anything to anybody. before we negate any system or approach, it is advisable to study it before commenting negatively on it. I never comment on the jamini analysis given by many Gurus, because i am not a Master in jamini. But what I put here as my experience, i can challenge anyone to argue with me on the same, provided the person comes with some level of expertise. But I cannot argue from ABC with a person who has not even opened the books and tried to study. There must be no aversion from any of us to any method, ebven western progressions, on whch I ill discuss next year with all the members, as all approaches have something to offer, and as a good astrologer we must be open to all approaches of prognistications. By the way KP is just a offshoot of the Vedic and nothing else. It is the churned cream from the Vedic , which is the Milk. So no one must have any aversions to the same. best wishes, Bhaskar. , "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan wrote:>> > Dear Learned astrologers,> > > Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of Astrology. "No need to verify Native's life events with rectified Birth Time" sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish the rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!!> > > For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath of new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what is 1st breath is again a matter of controversy.> Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous. the time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows ?> > how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal charts of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH.> > Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method / theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native.> > Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method of predictions.> > Naidu KP> > --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises wrote:> > Bhaskar rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart> > Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 10:26 PM> > > Dear Shri Pathiji.> > Namaste.> > I visited the site, and it would take some time to> read it and understand it, so commenting on it> presently, would not be right from my side.> > For birth rectification we have a simple method> taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the> birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth,> through the Ruling Planets or the planetary> configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer.> There is no need here to verify any event from the natives> side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the> astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of> the native, whose chart is in consideration. This> is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise> by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At> times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by> the astrologer, and at other times it may take him> 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set> of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the> configurations when he first sat to> rectify this birth time.> > I have been through these discussions with great> masters, so I know that the first breath is considered> as the right moment to be noted down as the actual> Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which> I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill.> > Thanks for reverting back with this info.> > regards,> Bhaskar.> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> pathiav@ > wrote:> >> > Natal Rectification> > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best when> the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible. Meta> Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a few> minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.)> > The Natal Finder> > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the importance> of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been> created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the Natal> Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of> individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each possible> natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on the> sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a> persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to> the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is> not dominating the peak.> > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of> Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The> examples include people and groups with both well documented natal times> and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the> Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to the> list, please send the suggestions to mlc@> > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing appropriate> significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate for> use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events> page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used then> the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5> events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ± 45> minutes about the initial time.> > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the> Rectification Examples page and the list at the left.> >> ============ => > My note to Mr. Bhaskar,> > Namaste> > The above I found from 'GOOGLE" www.metalifecycles. com. I will be> pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke> Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath of> the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time.> Sound may come later. Regards.> >> >> > A.V.Pathi,> >> >> >> >> > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart> >> >> > Dear Pathiji,> > Namaste.> > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got> through.> > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where> consensus is genrally not met with.> > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when> the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the> atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets> which throw them around.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> pathiav@ wrote:> > >> > > Namaste friends,> > >> > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for> astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a> portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth' or> the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the> interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above, was> not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be> confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one> Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval> between births of twins as above?> > >> > > A.V.Pathi,> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Shri Sunilji, I have been the only astrologer on these Internet Forums, who initiated, who has at hundreds of times, reprimanded the querists for asking too many queries and has asked the astrologers tomantain their dignity. I have been the only astrologer who has shared his secrets openly and publicly without worrying that the other astrologer would learn and become better than me. Because i knowthis secret of nature, that those who impart and share, Nature gives them back multifold. When i say that the Birth rectification can be done by a astrologer without referring to the native, I would never talk without substance in this assembly of astrologers, and open myself for attacks, unless I am sure about what I am talking. Here I am trying to suggest the astrologers what I have found good, and sharing it, and a member comes up negating the same, unecessarily without any weight and any tarka-kutarka. . It is not to my advantage but to the advantage of the others who have not been using this system, to gain from it. Which is what I am trying to suggest. These astrologers who are reading this would have a confirmation from one of them ( Myself ), that yes when this fellow says it is good, then we must try it. Which is what is my attempt.To share what gives me good results. i also have some techniques where within a moment one can say without looking at a chart, whether this native is suffering from preta Badha or some Pitru Shraap or whether all their family members running with same negativeness. All this I have learnt from My guru, but if receptiveness is not there and negativity and hostility is shown to such messages without any base, then how would I have the guts to share all this knowledge which would benefit all my colleaugues ? My hard work in sharing would be clearly seen in my previous posts by me, but if no one benefits from the same, then I would refrain from doing so. I would talk only on what is commonly acceptable and known to be right. regards,bhaskar. , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear all,> > I have used the Ruling Planets approach from the KP system, liberally> and illustrated with Live examples to the natives coming in with Queries> on the various Forums. those who are interested may search for these> mails on the various Forums. But i do not have to prove anything to> anybody. before we negate any system or approach, it is advisable to> study it before commenting negatively on it. I never comment on the> jamini analysis given by many Gurus, because i am not a Master in> jamini. But what I put here as my experience, i can challenge anyone to> argue with me on the same, provided the person comes with some level of> expertise. But I cannot argue from ABC with a person who has not even> opened the books and tried to study. There must be no aversion from any> of us to any method, ebven western progressions, on whch I ill discuss> next year with all the members, as all approaches have something to> offer, and as a good astrologer we must be open to all approaches of> prognistications.> > By the way KP is just a offshoot of the Vedic and nothing else. It is> the churned cream from the Vedic , which is the Milk. So no one must> have any aversions to the same.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > , "K. P. Naidu"> konathalan@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Learned astrologers,> >> >> > Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by> sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of> Astrology. "No need to verify Native's life events with rectified Birth> Time" sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish theÂ> rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified> Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!!> >> >> > For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath of> new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what is> 1st breath is again a matter of controversy.> > Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous. the> time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows ?> >> > how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal charts> of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH.> >> > Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary> process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed> to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method /> theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native.> >> > Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method> of predictions.> >> > Naidu KP> >> > --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ wrote:> >> > Bhaskar rajiventerprises@> > Re: Twins_Chart> > > > Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 10:26 PM> >> >> > Dear Shri Pathiji.> >> > Namaste.> >> > I visited the site, and it would take some time to> > read it and understand it, so commenting on it> > presently, would not be right from my side.> >> > For birth rectification we have a simple method> > taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the> > birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth,> > through the Ruling Planets or the planetary> > configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer.> > There is no need here to verify any event from the natives> > side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the> > astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of> > the native, whose chart is in consideration. This> > is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise> > by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At> > times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by> > the astrologer, and at other times it may take him> > 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set> > of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the> > configurations when he first sat to> > rectify this birth time.> >> > I have been through these discussions with great> > masters, so I know that the first breath is considered> > as the right moment to be noted down as the actual> > Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which> > I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill.> >> > Thanks for reverting back with this info.> >> > regards,> > Bhaskar.> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala pathi> > pathiav@ > wrote:> > >> > > Natal Rectification> > > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best> when> > the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible.> Meta> > Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a> few> > minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.)> > > The Natal Finder> > > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the> importance> > of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been> > created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the> Natal> > Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of> > individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each> possible> > natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on> the> > sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a> > persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds to> > the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event is> > not dominating the peak.> > > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of> > Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples. The> > examples include people and groups with both well documented natal> times> > and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of the> > Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to> the> > list, please send the suggestions to mlc@> > > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing> appropriate> > significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate> for> > use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification Events> > page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used> then> > the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5> > events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e. ±> 45> > minutes about the initial time.> > > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the> > Rectification Examples page and the list at the left.> > >> > ============ => > > My note to Mr. Bhaskar,> > > Namaste> > > The above I found from 'GOOGLE" www.metalifecycles. com. I will be> > pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke> > Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath> of> > the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth time.> > Sound may come later. Regards.> > >> > >> > > A.V.Pathi,> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart> > >> > >> > > Dear Pathiji,> > > Namaste.> > > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one got> > through.> > > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where> > consensus is genrally not met with.> > > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is when> > the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in the> > atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets> > which throw them around.> > > best wishes,> > > Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala> pathi> > pathiav@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Namaste friends,> > > >> > > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for> > astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a> > portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of birth'> or> > the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the> > interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above,> was> > not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be> > confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one> > Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval> > between births of twins as above?> > > >> > > > A.V.Pathi,> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear Bhaskar ji we hav no doubt what u r saying and we know atleast when it comes to astrology ,u r talking frm depth ,ur exprnce and so many yrs of sweat behind it .So u dont need to proov anything in frnt of us as many knows u also . Western progressions are used in Nadi astrology and i think sri sheshadri iyyer has demonstrted it to public also when he revealed some secrets of nadi ( which he was taught -as so many nadi sistems r there too ) . Other wise western astrology is frm Tagika arab or muslim astrology which they took frm india while their interaction with india .This is not my opinion but opinion of arab scholar s only .I know one jesuit preist who has latin version of indian astrology but arab one ( where he says they got it frm arabs and then translated it into latin ) the yogas they use r iqabali ,musharaffa ,isaraff,radha like this on applying or seperating aspect of planets . since he has original version he also told me abt the connection between indian astrology ,tagik and european or western astrology . other wise frm where they get this rahu and ketu ,but offcource they r adding many more planets into 9 planets scheme and now may b 12 planets ( and good amnt of reserch is done by them too ) ,where as we hav tertiary planets ,non luminous planets and nava grahas .Because original is original and its difficult to out smart it . U r welcome to write abt western progressions and i will lov to read and learn abt it regrds sunil nair Om shreem mahalaxmai namah . , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear all,> > I have used the Ruling Planets approach from the KP system, liberally> and illustrated with Live examples to the natives coming in with Queries> on the various Forums. those who are interested may search for these> mails on the various Forums. But i do not have to prove anything to> anybody. before we negate any system or approach, it is advisable to> study it before commenting negatively on it. I never comment on the> jamini analysis given by many Gurus, because i am not a Master in> jamini. But what I put here as my experience, i can challenge anyone to> argue with me on the same, provided the person comes with some level of> expertise. But I cannot argue from ABC with a person who has not even> opened the books and tried to study. There must be no aversion from any> of us to any method, ebven western progressions, on whch I ill discuss> next year with all the members, as all approaches have something to> offer, and as a good astrologer we must be open to all approaches of> prognistications.> > By the way KP is just a offshoot of the Vedic and nothing else. It is> the churned cream from the Vedic , which is the Milk. So no one must> have any aversions to the same.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > , "K. P. Naidu"> konathalan@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Learned astrologers,> >> >> > Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by> sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of> Astrology. "No need to verify Native's life events with rectified Birth> Time" sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish theÂ> rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified> Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!!> >> >> > For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath of> new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what is> 1st breath is again a matter of controversy.> > Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous. the> time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows ?> >> > how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal charts> of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH.> >> > Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary> process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed> to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method /> theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native.> >> > Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method> of predictions.> >> > Naidu KP> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear bhaskar ji All this is part of our profession ( we get more abuse than gratitude) .I hope u will not deterred frm ur main mission in life here we r gathered to share/discuss/lern astrology .if some member may b out of ignorence write some thing let us not vlaue it more than a question on a his doubt . Let us move on rgds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah . , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear Shri Sunilji,> > I have been the only astrologer on these Internet Forums, who initiated,> who has at hundreds of times,> reprimanded the querists for asking too many queries and has asked the> astrologers to> mantain their dignity. I have been the only astrologer who has shared> his secrets openly and publicly without worrying that the other> astrologer would learn and become better than me. Because i know> this secret of nature, that those who impart and share, Nature gives> them back multifold. When i say that the Birth rectification can be> done by a astrologer without referring to the native, I would never talk> without substance in this assembly of astrologers, and open myself for> attacks, unless I am sure about what I am talking.> > Here I am trying to suggest the astrologers what I have found good, and> sharing it, and a member comes up negating the same, unecessarily > without any weight and any tarka-kutarka. . It is not to my advantage> but to the advantage of the others who have not been using this system,> to gain from it. Which is what I am trying to suggest. These> astrologers who are reading this would have a confirmation from one of> them ( Myself ), that yes when this fellow says it is good, then we must> try it. Which is what is my attempt.> To share what gives me good results.> > i also have some techniques where within a moment one can say without> looking at a chart, whether this native is suffering from preta Badha or> some Pitru Shraap or whether all their family members running with same> negativeness. All this I have learnt from My guru, but if receptiveness> is not there and negativity and hostility is shown to such messages> without any base, then how would I have the guts to share all this> knowledge which would benefit all my colleaugues ?> > My hard work in sharing would be clearly seen in my previous posts by> me, but if no one benefits from the same, then I would refrain from> doing so. I would talk only on what is commonly acceptable and known to> be right.> > regards,> bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > > > , "Bhaskar"> rajiventerprises@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear all,> >> > I have used the Ruling Planets approach from the KP system, liberally> > and illustrated with Live examples to the natives coming in with> Queries> > on the various Forums. those who are interested may search for these> > mails on the various Forums. But i do not have to prove anything to> > anybody. before we negate any system or approach, it is advisable to> > study it before commenting negatively on it. I never comment on the> > jamini analysis given by many Gurus, because i am not a Master in> > jamini. But what I put here as my experience, i can challenge anyone> to> > argue with me on the same, provided the person comes with some level> of> > expertise. But I cannot argue from ABC with a person who has not even> > opened the books and tried to study. There must be no aversion from> any> > of us to any method, ebven western progressions, on whch I ill discuss> > next year with all the members, as all approaches have something to> > offer, and as a good astrologer we must be open to all approaches of> > prognistications.> >> > By the way KP is just a offshoot of the Vedic and nothing else. It is> > the churned cream from the Vedic , which is the Milk. So no one must> > have any aversions to the same.> >> > best wishes,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> >> >> >> > , "K. P. Naidu"> > konathalan@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Learned astrologers,> > >> > >> > > Rectification of Birth Time on Ruling Planets theory as suggested by> > sri Bhaskar, is I think is in the KP (Krishnamurti Paddathi) system of> > Astrology. "No need to verify Native's life events with rectified> Birth> > Time" sounds not reasonable nor meaningful. How to establish theÂ> > rectified  Birth Time is correct / accurate. Is the rectified> > Birth Time is the time of 1st breath of the native ? DOUBTFUL !!!> > >> > >> > > For theoritical discussions it is very easy to state the 1st breath> of> > new born shall be taken as Birth Time. Is it practically easy ? what> is> > 1st breath is again a matter of controversy.> > > Stethoscope examination tells about hear beat which is continuous.> the> > time recorded may of 2nd, 3rd or ....... so on of breath who knows> ?> > >> > > how many astrologers have seen in their routine practice natal> charts> > of 1st breath Birth Time ? doubtful. Let us boldly admit the TRUTH.> > >> > > Birth Time verification / rectification is still in evolutionary> > process. so many theories are evoloved. every theory theory is claimed> > to be best, but truly speaking there is no pool proof method /> > theory of BTR. God only knows the exact Birth Time of a native.> > >> > > Due to the above problem, astrologers safely resort to Horary method> > of predictions.> > >> > > Naidu KP> > >> > > --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ wrote:> > >> > > Bhaskar rajiventerprises@> > > Re: Twins_Chart> > > > > > Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 10:26 PM> > >> > >> > > Dear Shri Pathiji.> > >> > > Namaste.> > >> > > I visited the site, and it would take some time to> > > read it and understand it, so commenting on it> > > presently, would not be right from my side.> > >> > > For birth rectification we have a simple method> > > taught to us by the gurus, where one can rectify the> > > birth time to few seconds difference of actual birth,> > > through the Ruling Planets or the planetary> > > configurations at the time of judgement by the astrologer.> > > There is no need here to verify any event from the natives> > > side, on the contrary the Planets in the sky guide the> > > astrologer perfectly , to the right birth time of> > > the native, whose chart is in consideration. This> > > is not so hard as it may sound. Just needs practise> > > by a willing astrologer and a seeker of truth. At> > > times the birth may be rectified in a few minutes by> > > the astrologer, and at other times it may take him> > > 2-3 sittings to do the same, though the set> > > of Ruling Planets to be used, would be the> > > configurations when he first sat to> > > rectify this birth time.> > >> > > I have been through these discussions with great> > > masters, so I know that the first breath is considered> > > as the right moment to be noted down as the actual> > > Birth. Yes the cry at times may come later, which> > > I have already mentioned in my mail to Chandu 2 chill.> > >> > > Thanks for reverting back with this info.> > >> > > regards,> > > Bhaskar.> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala> pathi> > > pathiav@ > wrote:> > > >> > > > Natal Rectification> > > > Meta Life Cycles charts and astrology charts in general are best> > when> > > the time of birth or natal time is known as accurately as possible.> > Meta> > > Life Cycles charts are best when the natal time is known to within a> > few> > > minutes and at least to ± 10 minutes. (See below.)> > > > The Natal Finder> > > > As an adjunct to the Meta Life Cycles charts and due to the> > importance> > > of an having an accurate natal time, a very advanced tool has been> > > created to verify or discover natal times. The tool is called the> > Natal> > > Finder. What the Natal Finder tool does is integrate a multitude of> > > individual factors to calculate a Rectification Level for each> > possible> > > natal time under consideration. The individual factors are based on> > the> > > sensitivity of the natal time to multiple significant events in a> > > persons life. The highest Rectification Level typically corresponds> to> > > the natal time though care must be taken to be sure a single event> is> > > not dominating the peak.> > > > To demonstrate the usefulness of the Natal Finder, a number of> > > Rectification Level scans are presented as Rectification Examples.> The> > > examples include people and groups with both well documented natal> > times> > > and poorly documented natal times so you can observe the power of> the> > > Natal Finder. Astrologers, if you have suggestions for additions to> > the> > > list, please send the suggestions to mlc@> > > > An important aspect of using the Natal Finder is providing> > appropriate> > > significant events. For individuals, the types of events appropriate> > for> > > use in rectifying natal times are provided on the Rectification> Events> > > page. One important consideration is that if fewer events are used> > then> > > the valid range of times to scan is less. For example, with 4 or 5> > > events it is best not to scan more than an hour and a half, i.e.> ±> > 45> > > minutes about the initial time.> > > > Examples of results of using the Natal Finder are shown on the> > > Rectification Examples page and the list at the left.> > > >> > > ============ => > > > My note to Mr. Bhaskar,> > > > Namaste> > > > The above I found from 'GOOGLE" www.metalifecycles. com. I will be> > > pleased to have your comments. I refered to famous Doctors in Duke> > > Hospital here, who agreed with your contention that the first breath> > of> > > the child when it relases both hands from the sides as the birth> time.> > > Sound may come later. Regards.> > > >> > > >> > > > A.V.Pathi,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:09:28 AM> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Pathiji,> > > > Namaste.> > > > I am rewriting this message as am not sure, whether the last one> got> > > through.> > > > The Birth time what must be taken as right, is a matter where> > > consensus is genrally not met with.> > > > But the actual Birth time which must be reccorded as right, is> when> > > the child takes in the first breath, and is exposed to the air in> the> > > atmosphere which holds in all the Cosmic rays of the various Planets> > > which throw them around.> > > > best wishes,> > > > Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, venkatachala> > pathi> > > pathiav@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste friends,> > > > >> > > > > Which is time taken for calculations that it is time for> > > astrological purposes? When the child is exposed to solar rays as a> > > portion of the body of the child is out of womb to be 'time of> birth'> > or> > > the time at which child in full is delivered? I gather that the> > > interval time between the time of birth, in either catagories above,> > was> > > not within 3 Mts and 20 seconds between twins, and this should be> > > confirmed by learned doctors. Is there any relationship between one> > > Padha of a Star being equal to 3 degrees 20 mts and time interval> > > between births of twins as above?> > > > >> > > > > A.V.Pathi,> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Dear shri Bhaskar Ji, I am not negating Ruling Planet method as I am believer in KP system. In fact i am not negating any system of Astrology. I have no intention of offending experienced astrologers like you. I respect the rich experiences. Normally the need for BTR arises when the Birth Time is doubtful as to accuracy / exactness, due to failure of predictions based upon such natal chart and when the native's major life events could not be verified / confirmed with such Birth Time. The rectified Birth Time supposed to confirm the life events of the native. In that I context I said the rectified birth time if need not confirm life events of the native is meaningless. I have not suggested to use stethoscope to record Birth time of 1st breath. In KP system the time of 1st breath of the new born is regarded as Birth Time. I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record the time of 1st breath. There are varied theories and divergent opinions on BTR. Each theory claims to be accurate and successful in giving results. This is absolute Truth. We are living in Dynamic world. Astrology, Divine science, is a great ocean. What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of with speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. This is not creticism nor negation of any theory / experience / opinion. Hope what is said above is taken in right and proper perspective and in sportive spirit. Regards, naidu KP K. P. Naidu, --- On Sun, 13/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote: Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart Sunday, 13 July, 2008, 11:54 PM Dear Shri KP Naidu, Sir Isaac newton , it is saidwas once ridiculed by someone for his belief in the predictive Branch. He cooly replied " I havestudied Astrology' You have not. Thats sums up Your negation of The Ruling Planets method of rectification of birth as " Not meaningful, not reasonable, Doubtful " . use of stehoscope in determining the first breath is a highly funny suggestion, never heard of, in any astrology debate, uptil now, by any of us. It is understood that if the child lives, then the first breath recorded, was perfect. There is No TRUTH as suggested by You. That is not the truth. If a person lives in a village whole is Life never having access to multistoreyed buildings, does not mean that there are no Ski Highy Scrapers of 110 Storeys in India. This may be a evolution process for you. But not to me, and thousands who have studied. Horary Charts are resorted to not just only because of incorrect birth times, but also because of temporary queries which cannotbe gauged from the Birth Chart. Logic must come before negation. Stating and judgements are not justified without Logic and a good experience in all the available facets of the approaches of this Divine science. Because I have not studied a particular approach, does not give me a right to negate it. I am sorry, Your mail stinks of some inferiority complexes and lack of discipline and better levels unacheived in this science ............ .. othersiw this negation would not have come. Please come back to me only after studying this approach with your judgements on this. Period. Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear shri Bhaskar Ji, I agree with your views. I request your clarification on the following :- 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the Birth Time ? 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified BT. with Best wishes, Naidu KP K. P. Naidu, .. --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote: Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM Dear Shri KP Naiduji, I endorse Your views in this mail. // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record the time of 1st breath. // This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified in 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock would show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show another time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show another time in its settings. When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be busy in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, the subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, or warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to record the correct time ? For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and quality of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to predict properly. // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of with speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. // i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that every Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his being born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree, every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same. Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up very fast. best wishes, bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Shri Naidu ji, My clarifications to You as under in Blue - 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Someastrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always beconsidered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean thechild is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. I have mantained my view in many previous mails, that the child may cry late, and the cry is not the criteria for the birth time, but the first breath is, as explicitly mentiond I think to one member Chandu 2 chill, and repeated thereafter I suppose several times in replies to You. In no way that it does not mean that the child is not breathing before the first cry in all cases. In fact when the child is not breathing, then the Doctor would tap on its back to make it utter its first cry and take the air in.2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation,immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the BirthTime ? His first breath would be the time of Birth time.3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions yousaid. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may betest to verify the correctness of rectified BT. Of course after rectification is done, the astrologer would immediately verify the correctness of this rectification by exchange of conversations with the Native whose chart is under discussion. Best wishes, Bhaskar. , "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan wrote:>> > > Dear shri Bhaskar Ji,> > I agree with your views.> > > I request your clarification on the following :-> > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry.> > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the Birth Time ?> > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified BT.> > with Best wishes,> > Naidu KP > > K. P. Naidu,> .> > --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises wrote:> > Bhaskar rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart> > Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM> > > Dear Shri KP Naiduji,> > I endorse Your views in this mail.> > // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record> the time of 1st breath. //> > This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified in> 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are> sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock would> show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show another> time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show> another time in its settings.> > When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be busy> in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses> present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, the> subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, or> warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to> record the correct time ?> > For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they> have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all> predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very> fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and quality> of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to> predict properly.> > // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of with> speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. //> > i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that every> Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his being> born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS> Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree,> every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree> given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be> proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is> confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same.> > Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I> apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up> very fast.> > best wishes,> > bhaskar.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji and Naidu ji, I request you both to kindly permit me to intrude and give the information gathered. The leading doctors opine, that the child releases the hands, immediately it comes out of the mother's womb. This is an indication to the doctor that the child is alive and takes in the breadth, which is its first experience to accept the atmospheric air pressure. This becomes easier when the nose is cleaned. But, the very act of release of hands indicate the child is 'Born', and need not wait for a cry, as it could come later when the child is 'drawn' upside down and 'sensitiveness' is created by 'shakes' or light pat to cause 'vibration' etc. Then, to answer Mr. Naidu, I am directed by a most eminent doctor, that the shake of hand could indicate the 'birth of child' and the cry would only will follow as it takes air through mouth, (perhaps in seconds) to 'prove' that the child is born. Now the inference of the birth time is in your hands! A.V.Pathi, K. P. Naidu <konathalan Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:33:58 AM Re: Twins_Chart Dear shri Bhaskar Ji, I agree with your views. I request your clarification on the following :- 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the Birth Time ? 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified BT. with Best wishes, Naidu KP K. P. Naidu, .. --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises@ hathway.com> wrote: Bhaskar <rajiventerprises@ hathway.com> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart ancient_indian_ astrology Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM Dear Shri KP Naiduji, I endorse Your views in this mail. // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record the time of 1st breath. // This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified in 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock would show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show another time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show another time in its settings. When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be busy in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, the subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, or warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to record the correct time ? For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and quality of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to predict properly. // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of with speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. // i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that every Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his being born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree, every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same. Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up very fast. best wishes, bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Shri Pathiji, Exactly Sir. You echo my own views. kind regards, Bhaskar. , venkatachala pathi <pathiav wrote: > > > Dear Bhaskar ji and Naidu ji, > > I request you both to kindly permit me to intrude and give the information gathered. The leading doctors opine, that the child releases the hands, immediately it comes out of the mother's womb. This is an indication to the doctor that the child is alive and takes in the breadth, which is its first experience to accept the atmospheric air pressure. This becomes easier when the nose is cleaned. But, the very act of release of hands indicate the child is 'Born', and need not wait for a cry, as it could come later when the child is 'drawn' upside down and 'sensitiveness' is created by 'shakes' or light pat to cause 'vibration' etc. > Then, to answer Mr. Naidu, I am directed by a most eminent doctor, that the shake of hand could indicate the 'birth of child' and the cry would only will follow as it takes air through mouth, (perhaps in seconds) to 'prove' that the child is born. Now the inference of the birth time is in your hands! > > A.V.Pathi, > > > > K. P. Naidu konathalan > > Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:33:58 AM > Re: Twins_Chart > > > > > Dear shri Bhaskar Ji, > > I agree with your views. > > I request your clarification on the following :- > > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. > > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the Birth Time ? > > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified BT. > > with Best wishes, > > Naidu KP > > K. P. Naidu, > . > > --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises@ hathway.com> wrote: > > Bhaskar <rajiventerprises@ hathway.com> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart > ancient_indian_ astrology > Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM > > Dear Shri KP Naiduji, > > I endorse Your views in this mail. > > // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record > the time of 1st breath. // > > This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified in > 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are > sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock would > show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show another > time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show > another time in its settings. > > When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be busy > in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses > present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, the > subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, or > warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to > record the correct time ? > > For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they > have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all > predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very > fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and quality > of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to > predict properly. > > // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of with > speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. // > > i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that every > Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his being > born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS > Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree, > every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree > given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be > proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is > confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same. > > Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I > apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up > very fast. > > best wishes, > > bhaskar. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear learned memebers, I am sorry to intervene, little off astrology, the first cry of the baby is heard only by the mother and nobody else. It is very feeble. So when the baby is born, the cry is definitely not the first. This is out of my own experience. Interestingly, 95% women are either in great pain or lack consciousness to even notice the cry. I was 100% awake and talking with the doctor throughout my process, although in great pain. When I delivered my baby, he cried as he just came out, it was a wonderful experience for me (it is still in my ears), I told the doctor, she said she did not hear any cry, the two nurses did not either and neither my husband who was in the labor room. After he actually came out,he was shaking his hands, then they cut the chord, then the doctor put him in his dad's arms, that was the time he cried. The doctor also continuously monior heartbeat of the baby to see that the baby is alive. Hence, it is normal for a baby to cry late because he or she already cried and the mother did not realize while others did not hear at all The first cry was heard only by me, I saw the time myself, the cry time it was 00.51.00hrs, when he came out it was 00.52.30hrs, the hosiptal recorded as 00.53.00hrs. Regards, bhagavathi , " Bhaskar " <rajiventerprises wrote: > > > Dear Shri Naidu ji, > > My clarifications to You as under in Blue - > > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child > cry. Some > astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always > be > considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean > the > child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. > I have mantained my view in many previous mails, that the child may cry > late, and the cry is not the criteria for the birth time, but the first > breath is, as explicitly mentiond I think to one member Chandu 2 chill, > and repeated thereafter I suppose several times in replies to You. In > no way that it does not mean that the child is not breathing before the > first cry in all cases. In fact when the child is not breathing, then > the Doctor would tap on its back to make it utter its first cry and take > the air in. > > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian > operation, > immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the > Birth > Time ? His first breath would be the time of Birth time. > > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions > you > said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this > may be > test to verify the correctness of rectified BT. Of course after > rectification is done, the astrologer would immediately verify the > correctness of this rectification by exchange of conversations with the > Native whose chart is under discussion. Best wishes, > Bhaskar. > > > > , " K. P. Naidu " > <konathalan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear shri Bhaskar Ji, > > > > I agree with your views. > > > > > > I request your clarification on the following :- > > > > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child > cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need > not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That > does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. > > > > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian > operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here > what is the Birth Time ? > > > > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful > predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of > the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified > BT. > > > > with Best wishes, > > > > Naidu KP > > > > K. P. Naidu, > > . > > > > --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ wrote: > > > > Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ > > Re: Twins_Chart > > > > Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM > > > > > > Dear Shri KP Naiduji, > > > > I endorse Your views in this mail. > > > > // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record > > the time of 1st breath. // > > > > This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified > in > > 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are > > sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock > would > > show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show > another > > time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show > > another time in its settings. > > > > When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be > busy > > in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses > > present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, > the > > subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, > or > > warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to > > record the correct time ? > > > > For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they > > have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all > > predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very > > fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and > quality > > of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to > > predict properly. > > > > // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of > with > > speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. // > > > > i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that > every > > Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his > being > > born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS > > Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree, > > every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree > > given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be > > proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is > > confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same. > > > > Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I > > apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up > > very fast. > > > > best wishes, > > > > bhaskar. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hare rama krishna, dear Bhagavathi ji That was a very interesting information and just now i asked my wife also ,she told me she also heard it but never she thought abt the part u said ,as its audible only to mother .She thought every one in labour room might hav heard it . any way thanks for this gr8 information . yes some rishis recommend sirodarshana as the possible birth time too . So this cry is happening may b when the kid enteres to new world which he was not familiar all this days ( means may b head is out ) thank u regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "bhagavathi_hariharan" <bhagavathi_hariharan wrote:>> Dear learned memebers,> > I am sorry to intervene, little off astrology, the first cry of the > baby is heard only by the mother and nobody else. It is very feeble. > So when the baby is born, the cry is definitely not the first. This > is out of my own experience. Interestingly, 95% women are either in > great pain or lack consciousness to even notice the cry.> > I was 100% awake and talking with the doctor throughout my process, > although in great pain. When I delivered my baby, he cried as he just > came out, it was a wonderful experience for me (it is still in my > ears), I told the doctor, she said she did not hear any cry, the two > nurses did not either and neither my husband who was in the labor > room. After he actually came out,he was shaking his hands, then they > cut the chord, then the doctor put him in his dad's arms, that was > the time he cried. The doctor also continuously monior heartbeat of > the baby to see that the baby is alive. Hence, it is normal for a > baby to cry late because he or she already cried and the mother did > not realize while others did not hear at all > > The first cry was heard only by me, I saw the time myself, the cry > time it was 00.51.00hrs, when he came out it was 00.52.30hrs, the > hosiptal recorded as 00.53.00hrs. > > > Regards,> > bhagavathi > > , "Bhaskar" > rajiventerprises@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Shri Naidu ji,> > > > My clarifications to You as under in Blue -> > > > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the > child> > cry. Some> > astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not > always> > be> > considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not > mean> > the> > child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry.> > I have mantained my view in many previous mails, that the child may > cry> > late, and the cry is not the criteria for the birth time, but the > first> > breath is, as explicitly mentiond I think to one member Chandu 2 > chill,> > and repeated thereafter I suppose several times in replies to You. > In> > no way that it does not mean that the child is not breathing before > the> > first cry in all cases. In fact when the child is not breathing, > then> > the Doctor would tap on its back to make it utter its first cry and > take> > the air in.> > > > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian> > operation,> > immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is > the> > Birth> > Time ? His first breath would be the time of Birth time.> > > > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful > predictions> > you> > said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? > this> > may be> > test to verify the correctness of rectified BT. Of course after> > rectification is done, the astrologer would immediately verify the> > correctness of this rectification by exchange of conversations with > the> > Native whose chart is under discussion. Best wishes,> > Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Thank you shri Bhaskar Ji.Best wishes,Naidu KPK. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Tue, 15/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote:Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: Twins_Chart Date: Tuesday, 15 July, 2008, 8:46 PM Dear Shri Naidu ji, My clarifications to You as under in Blue - 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Someastrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always beconsidered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean thechild is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. I have mantained my view in many previous mails, that the child may cry late, and the cry is not the criteria for the birth time, but the first breath is, as explicitly mentiond I think to one member Chandu 2 chill, and repeated thereafter I suppose several times in replies to You. In no way that it does not mean that the child is not breathing before the first cry in all cases. In fact when the child is not breathing, then the Doctor would tap on its back to make it utter its first cry and take the air in.2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation,immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the BirthTime ? His first breath would be the time of Birth time.3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions yousaid. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may betest to verify the correctness of rectified BT. Of course after rectification is done, the astrologer would immediately verify the correctness of this rectification by exchange of conversations with the Native whose chart is under discussion. Best wishes, Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@. ..> wrote:>> > > Dear shri Bhaskar Ji,> > I agree with your views.> > > I request your clarification on the following :-> > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry.> > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the Birth Time ?> > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified BT.> > with Best wishes,> > Naidu KP > > K. P. Naidu,> .> > --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ ... wrote:> > Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ ...> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart> ancient_indian_ astrology> Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM> > > Dear Shri KP Naiduji,> > I endorse Your views in this mail.> > // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record> the time of 1st breath. //> > This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified in> 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are> sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock would> show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show another> time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show> another time in its settings.> > When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be busy> in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses> present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, the> subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, or> warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to> record the correct time ?> > For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they> have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all> predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very> fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and quality> of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to> predict properly.> > // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of with> speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. //> > i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that every> Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his being> born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS> Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree,> every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree> given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be> proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is> confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same.> > Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I> apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up> very fast.> > best wishes,> > bhaskar.> Explore your hobbies and interests. 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Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Thank you smt.Bhagvate Ji for your interesting experience.Best Wishes,Naidu KPK. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Tue, 15/7/08, bhagavathi_hariharan <bhagavathi_hariharan wrote:bhagavathi_hariharan <bhagavathi_hariharan Re: Twins_Chart Date: Tuesday, 15 July, 2008, 9:42 PM Dear learned memebers, I am sorry to intervene, little off astrology, the first cry of the baby is heard only by the mother and nobody else. It is very feeble. So when the baby is born, the cry is definitely not the first. This is out of my own experience. Interestingly, 95% women are either in great pain or lack consciousness to even notice the cry. I was 100% awake and talking with the doctor throughout my process, although in great pain. When I delivered my baby, he cried as he just came out, it was a wonderful experience for me (it is still in my ears), I told the doctor, she said she did not hear any cry, the two nurses did not either and neither my husband who was in the labor room. After he actually came out,he was shaking his hands, then they cut the chord, then the doctor put him in his dad's arms, that was the time he cried. The doctor also continuously monior heartbeat of the baby to see that the baby is alive. Hence, it is normal for a baby to cry late because he or she already cried and the mother did not realize while others did not hear at all The first cry was heard only by me, I saw the time myself, the cry time it was 00.51.00hrs, when he came out it was 00.52.30hrs, the hosiptal recorded as 00.53.00hrs. Regards, bhagavathi ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises@ ...> wrote: > > > Dear Shri Naidu ji, > > My clarifications to You as under in Blue - > > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child > cry. Some > astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need not always > be > considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That does not mean > the > child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. > I have mantained my view in many previous mails, that the child may cry > late, and the cry is not the criteria for the birth time, but the first > breath is, as explicitly mentiond I think to one member Chandu 2 chill, > and repeated thereafter I suppose several times in replies to You. In > no way that it does not mean that the child is not breathing before the > first cry in all cases. In fact when the child is not breathing, then > the Doctor would tap on its back to make it utter its first cry and take > the air in. > > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian > operation, > immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here what is the > Birth > Time ? His first breath would be the time of Birth time. > > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful predictions > you > said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of the native ? this > may be > test to verify the correctness of rectified BT. Of course after > rectification is done, the astrologer would immediately verify the > correctness of this rectification by exchange of conversations with the > Native whose chart is under discussion. Best wishes, > Bhaskar. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "K. P. Naidu" > <konathalan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear shri Bhaskar Ji, > > > > I agree with your views. > > > > > > I request your clarification on the following :- > > > > 1. The gynaecologist always tries after child birth to make the child > cry. Some astrologers expressed their view that the new born cry need > not always be considered as 1st cry. sometimes the child cry late. That > does not mean the child is not breathing from bierth to 1st cry. > > > > 2. My grand daughter, prematurely born, taken out by caeserian > operation, immediately put under oxygen, kept for 10 days in ICU. Here > what is the Birth Time ? > > > > 3. Rectified / corrected BT is used for correct / successful > predictions you said. How to confirm / verify the past life events of > the native ? this may be test to verify the correctness of rectified > BT. > > > > with Best wishes, > > > > Naidu KP > > > > K. P. Naidu, > > . > > > > --- On Mon, 14/7/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ wrote: > > > > Bhaskar rajiventerprises@ > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Twins_Chart > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > Monday, 14 July, 2008, 10:14 PM > > > > > > Dear Shri KP Naiduji, > > > > I endorse Your views in this mail. > > > > // I expressed my opinion that it is not so easy practically to record > > the time of 1st breath. // > > > > This is precisely the reason why the Birth time needs to be rectified > in > > 90% of the cases. Because if You check in Your own room where You are > > sitting now, the wrist watch would show some time, the wall clock > would > > show another time, the wrist watch on your wifes hands may show > another > > time, the Cell phone may show another time, and the Computer may show > > another time in its settings. > > > > When the baby comes out of the womb, i am sure the Doctor would be > busy > > in making it utter its first cry, or its first breath, the nurses > > present may be busy in attention to attend to any emergency if any, > the > > subordinate staff may be ready with the sterlised water for washing, > or > > warm clothes or whatever may be needed. So how can we expect them to > > record the correct time ? > > > > For the KP practioners if they have to do their work sincerely, they > > have to mandatorily check and rectify the Birth times, as all > > predictions are based on the Sub Lord. And the Sub lord changes very > > fast, and is also the most important pointer for the events and > quality > > of the same. It is not done to record the first breath. It is done to > > predict properly. > > > > // What man knows is speck in the ocean. One need not feel proud of > with > > speck of knowledge since unknown science is vast. // > > > > i agree with the former sentence. For the latter I would say that > every > > Indian must be proud of his Birth, evey Hindu must be proud of his > being > > born in a Vaishnava family, every Doctor must be proud of his MBBS > > Certificate, every Chartered accountant must be proud of his degree, > > every daughter given in marriage must be proud of even a single saree > > given to her by her poor father to her, and every Astrologer must be > > proud of the speck of knowledge given to him by his Gurus if he is > > confident of the benefic results arriving on application of the same. > > > > Do not worry about my outbursts. If You feel offended by same, then I > > apologise. I am just not refined in my expressions and get worked up > > very fast. > > > > best wishes, > > > > bhaskar. > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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