who knows God?

July 29, 2008

Dear Friends,The debate about what is God, cannot lead anywhere. One can fill pages and pages on trying to explain what is God, yet not reach anywhere near the truth. God…the cosmic principle… the eternal energy… the driving force… the truth… give it whatever you may like, yet we are like blind men trying to see what an elephant looks like… all may be right, yet not right. All have a knowledge but yet do not know. What we call knowledge always comes from outside, whereas 'knowing' always comes from within. We can obtain the knowledge of God from books and sermons but not the "knowing" of God; that has to come from within. There is a difference between knowledge and knowing. Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only by knowing – knowing oneself.

This is the greatest problem in life: those who, know, need no explanation and there is no way of explaining to those who do not know. In trying to explain to the latter, more problems are created. What is known, is always known from within; and what is imparted, may only be superficial knowledge.

A man may read all the books on swimming. He may become an authority on all the information regarding swimming. He may even qualify to lecture on the subject – but do not ever push him into water, for whatever his qualifications, he cannot swim! To know swimming and to know about it, are two entirely different things. It is quite possible that one who knows swimming may be unable to explain it. He might say: "All I know is that I jump into water and – I swim! You too, will swim if you jump. If you insist on him larifying his statement, one will say: "How is it possible to speak about it? I can jump in the water and demonstrate. What discussion can there be in the matter of swimming?"

So also, we can know about God but that is not knowing God. There is a great number of such learned pundits amongst us who know about God, but where are those who "know" God?RegardsNeelam

July 29, 2008

Thanks for the best Post in these days.

I enjoyed reading and re-reading it . I cannot claim to Know God, with many inconsistencies in my system un- cleared uptil now, which need cleansing in time to come, but can feel Him and His presence in compassion and Love whenever it comes out from within the heart . And i feel Him many times when I am alone, or miss somebody or remember a person , listen to a beautiful song, or when the natures presents a lovely scenic panaroma to view, or the sounds of the birds . I feel Him a hundreds of times in a week, even when a good breeze blows through My face I feel Him ( This may sound funny ). I feel Him when the TV set is off, the fan is off, the AC is off, and there is no sound in the room but silence. I feel Him even in Silence. This cannot be explained but just felt.

Best wishes, for a good reading given to us,

Bhaskar.

, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > The debate about what is God, cannot lead anywhere. One can fill pages and> pages on trying to explain what is God, yet not reach anywhere near the> truth.> > God…the cosmic principle… the eternal energy… the driving force… the truth…> give it whatever you may like, yet we are like blind men trying to see what> an elephant looks like… all may be right, yet not right. All have a> knowledge but yet do not know. What we call knowledge always comes from> outside, whereas 'knowing' always comes from within. We can obtain the> knowledge of God from books and sermons but not the "knowing" of God; that> has to come from within. There is a difference between knowledge and> knowing. Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only by> knowing – knowing oneself.> > This is the greatest problem in life: those who, know, need no explanation> and there is no way of explaining to those who do not know. In trying to> explain to the latter, more problems are created. What is known, is always> known from within; and what is imparted, may only be superficial knowledge.> > A man may read all the books on swimming. He may become an authority on all> the information regarding swimming. He may even qualify to lecture on the> subject – but do not ever push him into water, for whatever his> qualifications, he cannot swim! To know swimming and to know about it, are> two entirely different things. It is quite possible that one who knows> swimming may be unable to explain it. He might say: "All I know is that I> jump into water and – I swim! You too, will swim if you jump. If you insist> on him larifying his statement, one will say: "How is it possible to speak> about it? I can jump in the water and demonstrate. What discussion can there> be in the matter of swimming?"> > So also, we can know about God but that is not knowing God. There is a great> number of such learned pundits amongst us who know about God, but where are> those who "know" God?> > Regards> Neelam>

July 29, 2008

dear friends

there are two beliefs viz. those who believe god exists elsewhere and

those who believe god is within. both are right in their own ways

but truth is known only to those who sees the god. for those who

have seen the god or know the truth or reality, nothing else is

required. many realised souls like adisankara and buddha preached

the soul as god.

here is what puranas say. the vital air lends consciousness to

creatures. the notion prevailing in the world that some external

power promotes the work is wrong. one shall know the essence of

purusha and prakriti.

this is the reason why the word " realisation of god " is used when

gurus advise one to go inwards. no one expalins searching of god or

seeing of god or knowing of god. realising god means knowing the god

who is already present but one is not aware of.

when one does antaryatra, the native realises that the lifeforce

within is nothing but god. when we say the omnipresent, all

pervading, all permeating god dwells in all sentient beings, it is

the lifeforce or atma or soul which has no shape and is nirakar. the

same atma lies in all creatures including humans. when chandala

enlightens adisankara in kasi about the same atma (god) existing in

both, adisankara bows to the shiva in the chandala. similarly, same

god dwells in all humans including kings and bandits, holy pontiffs

and terrorists.

positive and negative are the two ways of extracting energy and like

the same power (nirakar) works in all utilities notwithstanding these

utilities used for positive or negative purpose.

in a manufacturing unit, one finds procurement or purchase department

which gets materials or ingredients and then the production

department creates a product, the logicstics department ensures its

transportation to user locations, sales and marketing ensures its

saleability, finance reporting sales and sharing profits etc.

similary the creator, preserver and destroyer are the three areas or

functions of the whole mechanism and all are equally important. it

is irony that creator (brahma) is least worshipped and the destroyer

(shiva) is more worshipped. it is wrong to assume that the creater

writes the entire future on the forehead at the time of birth. as

far as modern day creation is concerned, australia announced 500

dollars to each newborn to promote more births whereas china imposes

fines and punishments for giving birth to more than one child. one

religion makes it mandatory to allow n number of births without any

control whereas others follow restrictions after one or two or three

births wilfully. some couples dont get any child at all and they

resort to cloning and having surrogates. a person doing a job or

doing a business and earning feeds and preserves his dependants.

similarly a thief, bandit and a dacoit too feeds and preserves his

dependents. while most people get death naturally due to aging or

diseases, some impose death on themselves by committing suicide

whereas some terrorists impose death on others by their choice of

attacks.

according to smritis, a king is equated to god since he has the power

to grant death or clemency at his will. even today a king can fix

the time of hanging or cancel death sentence. here the death is not

written in the charts or dictated by the planets but is ordered by

the king. similary a person after getting death sentence or is

undergoing a life imprisonment gets clemency and gets freed by the

king. in such circumstances, propitiating the king and seeking his

blessings are matter of life and death for the native. it is with

the same notion that natives mollify planets and worshipg gods to get

boons and blessings.

an adage goes yatha raja, tatha praja which is why some countries are

rich and give loans to all others and some countries are poor and

live and survive only on loans.

when the seed is formed during eclipse, the child is born with cut

nose and lips. here the fault lies with the parents for which the

child is suffering. when the parents have aids or other contagious

diseases, the child too inherits. if the mother is weak and could

not feed with milk, the child too becomes fragile and weak. here the

child is suffering because of the mother. some children wish to go

to school and study but their father force them to work in mechanic

shops and roadside restaurants as chotu or helper. here the child is

suffering because of father. one person having conjunctivitis can

pass it to all those who come in his contact. here others are

suffering because of him. similarly viral and contagious diseases

come from others.

freewill can be exercised by all humans alike but less than one

percent of the population exercises it. there are stories of various

people born in poverty becoming great personalities by their own

freewill. adisankara exercised his freewill at tender age to

renounce and become a saint even when his parents disagreed.

there is nothing like destiny or fate. if you stay inside a room and

lock yourself and say that if do vakt ka roti is written in your

fate, it will come searching for you, it never comes and you starve

inside. if after completion of studies one sits idle at home and say

that if a job is written in his destiny, it comes on its own, he

remains unemployed. a person doing a job believing in destiny says

that a promotion may happen as per destiny or fate, then like in

government it may come after 10 or 15 years of working in same

position whereas there are instances of those who are proactive and

do value addition getting a promotion a year.

there are many pull and push drivers of any native's future (besides

astrology) and the natives have to weigh all options to have things

going his way.

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> The debate about what is God, cannot lead anywhere. One can fill

pages and

> pages on trying to explain what is God, yet not reach anywhere near

the

> truth.

>

> God…the cosmic principle… the eternal energy… the driving force…

the truth…

> give it whatever you may like, yet we are like blind men trying to

see what

> an elephant looks like… all may be right, yet not right. All have a

> knowledge but yet do not know. What we call knowledge always comes

from

> outside, whereas 'knowing' always comes from within. We can obtain

the

> knowledge of God from books and sermons but not the " knowing " of

God; that

> has to come from within. There is a difference between knowledge and

> knowing. Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes

only by

> knowing – knowing oneself.

>

> This is the greatest problem in life: those who, know, need no

explanation

> and there is no way of explaining to those who do not know. In

trying to

> explain to the latter, more problems are created. What is known, is

always

> known from within; and what is imparted, may only be superficial

knowledge.

>

> A man may read all the books on swimming. He may become an

authority on all

> the information regarding swimming. He may even qualify to lecture

on the

> subject – but do not ever push him into water, for whatever his

> qualifications, he cannot swim! To know swimming and to know about

it, are

> two entirely different things. It is quite possible that one who

knows

> swimming may be unable to explain it. He might say: " All I know is

that I

> jump into water and – I swim! You too, will swim if you jump. If

you insist

> on him larifying his statement, one will say: " How is it possible

to speak

> about it? I can jump in the water and demonstrate. What discussion

can there

> be in the matter of swimming? "

>

> So also, we can know about God but that is not knowing God. There

is a great

> number of such learned pundits amongst us who know about God, but

where are

> those who " know " God?

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

July 29, 2008

Dear Neelam ji,

Thanks for the lovely post. Yes, this would not lead anywhere. I have heard various concepts of 'god'. If people talk so much about god, they should have some idea of the same. I was & am totally ignorant as to this. Hence wanted to get some knowledge.

It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing. The question of belief arises when there is no seeing - seeing in every sense of the word. The moment you see, the question of belief disappears. Then you are convinced.

What I wanted to point out is whatever the meaning given to the concept of 'god', there is one Truth in this world. This Truth need no labels. It is neither, Budddhist, Hindu, Jainism, Christian nor Islam. It is not a monopoly of anybody.

If we take charity, there is no Buddhist charity, Christian charity, Hindu charity etc. etc. Charity is charity. The love of a mother to her child is simply mother love. It does not need any relgious labels. This is the truth. In fact, in order to understand the Truth, it is not necessary even to know the source of the teaching. What is essential is seeing the Truth and understanding it.

"Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only by knowing – knowing oneself."

That was beautiful.

If one knows what is unwholesome [akusala] and avoids it......... and what is wholesome [kusala] and practises it, wisdom will come to him naturally.

blessings

Renu

, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > The debate about what is God, cannot lead anywhere. One can fill pages and> pages on trying to explain what is God, yet not reach anywhere near the> truth.> > God…the cosmic principle… the eternal energy… the driving force… the truth…> give it whatever you may like, yet we are like blind men trying to see what> an elephant looks like… all may be right, yet not right. All have a> knowledge but yet do not know. What we call knowledge always comes from> outside, whereas 'knowing' always comes from within. We can obtain the> knowledge of God from books and sermons but not the "knowing" of God; that> has to come from within. There is a difference between knowledge and> knowing. Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only by> knowing – knowing oneself.> > This is the greatest problem in life: those who, know, need no explanation> and there is no way of explaining to those who do not know. In trying to> explain to the latter, more problems are created. What is known, is always> known from within; and what is imparted, may only be superficial knowledge.> > A man may read all the books on swimming. He may become an authority on all> the information regarding swimming. He may even qualify to lecture on the> subject – but do not ever push him into water, for whatever his> qualifications, he cannot swim! To know swimming and to know about it, are> two entirely different things. It is quite possible that one who knows> swimming may be unable to explain it. He might say: "All I know is that I> jump into water and – I swim! You too, will swim if you jump. If you insist> on him larifying his statement, one will say: "How is it possible to speak> about it? I can jump in the water and demonstrate. What discussion can there> be in the matter of swimming?"> > So also, we can know about God but that is not knowing God. There is a great> number of such learned pundits amongst us who know about God, but where are> those who "know" God?> > Regards> Neelam>

July 29, 2008

Dear Renuji,

Now before you read further remember that we are just discussing and nothing personal and not to be taken as challenge or forced impositions. i am just enjoying tarka-kutarka and engaging in the same. I also wish you take the same view.

// If people talk so much about god, they should have some idea of the same //

Yes we have idea of the same. We know God is there. I have felt felt his Presence, seen his grace, seen Him manifesting through people etc.

// It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing. The question of belief arises when there is no seeing - seeing in every sense of the word. The moment you see, the question of belief disappears. Then you are convinced. //

Then how are you convinced that he is your father who has given birth to you ? Did You see ..................to believe ? And not you, for that matter none of us have seen it to believe it. many matters are to be believed because the elders

say it. they kNOW so we have to believe.

There are millions who say " I Love You ' to their partners in Love. Have you seen Love ? Some one feels unhappy. Have you seen unhappiness ? Is it a tangible substance to see ? Of these millions who say i love you, do you read when one partner dies , the other has also jumped in the funeral pyre ? Do we read in the newspapers of so many partners dying when their loved one dies ? so what

happened to their love then ?

Certain matters are to be felt, known and experienced. One cannot showcase them.

Can a ordinary man meet the Prime Minister whenever he wishes ? Does he not have be worthy enough to meet the Prime Minister ? How can we say that because i have not met the Prime Minister, he is not there ?

How can I say that I have not visited the Naigara falls so it is not there ? Many others have been there, and we have to believe them . Is it not ? We are ordinary 5 watt bulbs. And God may be said to be a 100watt Power. How can a 100watt power be thrown in a 5 watt bulb ? Would it not burst ?

So even You can meet God if you become worthy enough to meet Him. till the time you do not become worthy enough, You can feel Him and experience Him. But if You follow a religion where they say God does not exist then

no amount of explaining would be enough.

// What I wanted to point out is whatever the meaning given to the concept > of 'god', there is one Truth in this world. This Truth need no labels. > It is neither, Budddhist, Hindu, Jainism, Christian nor Islam. It is not> a monopoly of anybody. //

Perfectly said. I am little mandbuddhi with a combust and retro Mercury, so do not feel otherwise. just enjoying the discussion.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> > Dear Neelam ji,> > Thanks for the lovely post. Yes, this would not lead anywhere. I have> heard various concepts of 'god'. If people talk so much about god, they> should have some idea of the same. I was & am totally ignorant as to> this. Hence wanted to get some knowledge.> > It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of> believing. The question of belief arises when there is no seeing -> seeing in every sense of the word. The moment you see, the question of> belief disappears. Then you are convinced.> > What I wanted to point out is whatever the meaning given to the concept> of 'god', there is one Truth in this world. This Truth need no labels.> It is neither, Budddhist, Hindu, Jainism, Christian nor Islam. It is not> a monopoly of anybody.> > If we take charity, there is no Buddhist charity, Christian charity,> Hindu charity etc. etc. Charity is charity. The love of a mother to her> child is simply mother love. It does not need any relgious labels. This> is the truth. In fact, in order to understand the Truth, it is not> necessary even to know the source of the teaching. What is essential is> seeing the Truth and understanding it.> > "Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only by> knowing – knowing oneself."> > That was beautiful.> > If one knows what is unwholesome [akusala] and avoids it......... and> what is wholesome [kusala] and practises it, wisdom will come to him> naturally.> > blessings> > Renu> > > > > > > > > , "neelam gupta"> neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear Friends,> >> > The debate about what is God, cannot lead anywhere. One can fill pages> and> > pages on trying to explain what is God, yet not reach anywhere near> the> > truth.> >> > God…the cosmic principle… the eternal energy… the driving> force… the truth…> > give it whatever you may like, yet we are like blind men trying to see> what> > an elephant looks like… all may be right, yet not right. All have> a> > knowledge but yet do not know. What we call knowledge always comes> from> > outside, whereas 'knowing' always comes from within. We can obtain the> > knowledge of God from books and sermons but not the "knowing" of God;> that> > has to come from within. There is a difference between knowledge and> > knowing. Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only> by> > knowing – knowing oneself.> >> > This is the greatest problem in life: those who, know, need no> explanation> > and there is no way of explaining to those who do not know. In trying> to> > explain to the latter, more problems are created. What is known, is> always> > known from within; and what is imparted, may only be superficial> knowledge.> >> > A man may read all the books on swimming. He may become an authority> on all> > the information regarding swimming. He may even qualify to lecture on> the> > subject – but do not ever push him into water, for whatever his> > qualifications, he cannot swim! To know swimming and to know about it,> are> > two entirely different things. It is quite possible that one who knows> > swimming may be unable to explain it. He might say: "All I know is> that I> > jump into water and – I swim! You too, will swim if you jump. If> you insist> > on him larifying his statement, one will say: "How is it possible to> speak> > about it? I can jump in the water and demonstrate. What discussion can> there> > be in the matter of swimming?"> >> > So also, we can know about God but that is not knowing God. There is a> great> > number of such learned pundits amongst us who know about God, but> where are> > those who "know" God?> >> > Regards> > Neelam> >>

July 29, 2008

Dear All,

Sankhya Sutra says that God cannot be proved. So Sankhya does not talk about God

and for the same reason Lord Buddha also did not talk about God. However he did

believe in a cause.

Thus Sankhya and Buddhism are both Godless but not atheistic. According to the

Svetasvatara upanishad only the most advanced students of Sankhya are taught

about Brahman. For the higher students Lord Buddha also talked about Bodhakaya.