The advantage of such studies

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Shri Shyamji has been kind enough to give us seemingly authentic data of children who died shortly after their births . Now since the study part is over after many having expressed their versions of analysis and finally we having come up to the actual malady which was present in those births to cause them such deaths, I put back a reverse question to all the participaing members, including Shri Shyamji as he initiated this thread -

In near future when would those planetary configurations which caused such malady and deaths, occur again, so as to cause similiar deaths to the new borns in that region. I am sure Shri Shyamji would be able to tell that Doctor of the nusring Home, so that he coul avoid or delay all such births during the few minutes when these configurations would persist ?

If this can be done, then we would surely have succeeded in all this analysis and take benefit out from the same and help mankind..

If this cannot be done, then would a similiar process involving study of such datas by astrologers prove worthwhile, is what I ask the members ?

best wishes,

Bhaskaran.

[Guest guest]

Congratulations Neelamji for the great analysis.

 

I agree with Bhaskaranji, I did watch the analysis with great

disappointment. What was the rationale for the exercise? What did

we gain? Why to diagnoze if we don't bother to treat?

 

Kansalji, we cannot draw fine lines between different branches of

science, people classified it for the convinience of study. What is

Science and what is the purpose of research? Only one answer is " for

the betterment of humanity " .

 

Our learned members have already mentioned that astrologers are the

middlemen between God and common men. Now that all of us cheered for

the success of prediction and move on and forgetting their mission.

 

 

Kansalji took so much pain to figure out the probelms and so on and

he should also take initiative to see that something is done as

remedy in the neighborhood otherswise what is use of him being a

medical astrologer.

 

I might sound unreal. I have seen many hospitals doing free service

for single cases (is it for publicity?), have seen bringing kids from

foreign countries and treat them free, then how come we cannot do a

preventive measure with much less expense so that many lives can be

saved from such disaster? If there is a will there is way.

 

Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings.

 

Jaya

 

, " Bhaskar "

<rajiventerprises wrote:

>

>

> Dear all,

>

> Shri Shyamji has been kind enough to give us seemingly authentic

data of

> children who died shortly after their births . Now since the study

part

> is over after many having expressed their versions of analysis and

> finally we having come up to the actual malady which was present in

> those births to cause them such deaths, I put back a reverse

question to

> all the participaing members, including Shri Shyamji as he initiated

> this thread -

>

> In near future when would those planetary configurations which

caused

> such malady and deaths, occur again, so as to cause similiar

deaths to

> the new borns in that region. I am sure Shri Shyamji would be able

to

> tell that Doctor of the nusring Home, so that he coul avoid or

delay all

> such births during the few minutes when these configurations would

> persist ?

>

> If this can be done, then we would surely have succeeded in all this

> analysis and take benefit out from the same and help mankind..

>

> If this cannot be done, then would a similiar process involving

study of

> such datas by astrologers prove worthwhile, is what I ask the

members ?

>

> best wishes,

>

> Bhaskaran.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, That was an excellent write-up! I have formatted the same uploaded the file at: Neelam%20Gupta/Astrology%20the%20guiding%20light.doc Love and regards,Sreenadh , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,> > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I agree with you, that> this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life yet, and appear futile.> I also agree with you that purpose of any research should be 'betterment of> humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied a little further> astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.> > There are two roads which also converge somewhere. Truth is also sought for> its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest for anything for its> own sake may not be interested in application. This is called basic research> or pure science. But that does not also mean that once they find something,> it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied science. Finding the> truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What was done is only a> miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.> > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:> > - Observation> - Hypotheses or theory> - Logical deduction or inference> - Experiments or tests> - Application> > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the first 3 points. After> establishing the three things, we need to test the hypothesis on good sample> sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No research can> absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can only falsify. This is> what Einstein meant when he said "No amount of experimentation can ever> prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong".All such exercises> are only little steps in the process of learning and research, and no step,> however small, can be called a waste. And never should a research-mind be> disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to success or failure.> > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and what is left with us> is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep ocean out there, and> no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in this ocean… no> astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives there. No astrologer> one can say that each of his prediction has been correct? But astrology does> seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen in retrospect. This> encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.> > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, and the one> that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no one should call himself> a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no diagnosis could be> made without the help of astrological information on the patient. Despite,> it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been accorded the status> it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the sound scientific> attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-equipped astrologers> thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and prove the worth of> astrology, and having done that, the second is to put it to good use. Unless> we are able to fully establish the first part, we won't even be allowed to> pilot the second part.> > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear in the astrological> studies also. A few decades back, even the the specialized medicare was> difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human body is a single> system and the study of and practice of medicine should be comprehensive and> not restricted to particular area of the anatomy. There were only general> practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe remedies for any ailment.> > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as that of the medicine> of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger canvass than any other> study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers. It would be good to> have specialists, and further specialists within each branch of astrology.> There could be researchers who come up with inferences and logics and> medical astrologers can test them extensively in field and if found correct> can start the application. For this a whole system must be generated where> multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making authorities at the helm> with astrolgers having their due status. Only possibilities of course… till> there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.> > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the bridge. So we have to go> on with the mission and welcome each little opportunity to learn and grow…> till we are able say Eureka!!> > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all end-all. e.g the point> about altering the time of births does not work as it goes against the basic> astrological principles. There have been many unsuccessful attempts also> when astrologers have recommended specific times of birth and the child has> chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says that each soul will> choose its time to take birth at a time when the planetary position make> possible his journey for his own suffering or enjoyment of karmas. Can> anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can, then we fool ourselves> and others.> > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a guiding light, and with a> more scientific approach it can be shown with more confidence, with better> focus and better illumination, for the betterment of humanity. And every> step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and adds to the knowledge> base.> > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but I am sure any> researcher would agree with me.> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jayaji,

I appreciate your honest mail. Neelamji has done her job. The rest of the astrologers on the forum have done their jobs. Now only 2 people remain, to respond, one is the Doctor of the Nursing Home in question, and the the other, is the Querist, Shri Shyam Kansalji.

He did not reveal the name of the disease even after his accepting that he knows it but in process of wishing to guage the knowledge of the astrologers, he did not reveal the same, which is okay and acceptable.

I understand that Shri Shyam Kansalji is also an astrologer, so i expect his own analysis and deductions , and subsequent conclusions on board.

Next - What steps would be taken now, for future births under such configurations , after one of the astrologers here has deducted the actual disease , which is what was required by the Querist ?

What did the Querist understand after one member has pointed out the disease ? I mean what was understood astrologically ? We would be obliged if that is enumerated pointwise in astrological knowledge and parlance, presented to the members .

Bhaskaran.

 

 

 

, "revati_n27" <revati_n27 wrote:>> Dear Neelamji:> > You are very clear in what you wanted to say as usual. But you know > my concern in none of that. > > First step of research> 1. Observation > > If I were to review the proposal for funding, I would deny the same > > > 1. It has been recognised as a birth defect during the early stage of > gestation and has been proven to prevent by providing folic acid to > expectant moms. So, best way is availability of health awareness and > nutritional supplements to expectant moms.> > 2. The defect occurs in the first three months of gestation and what > is the use of prdicting after the birth of the child who is already > born with the fatal defect. > > I was concerned that none was much bothered about the value of human > life here rather worried about how well we can utilize this > unfortunate situation.> > I may sound unreal, but I could not help. A child's life is very > precious, even if it is one day of gestation. We only understand > that when we put ourselves in that position. > > Neelamji, I have a ray of hope in my mind and am aware of your > generous deeds. My views are only about this particular case study. > > Thanks,> jaya> > , "neelam gupta" > neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,> > > > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I agree with you, > that> > this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life yet, and > appear futile.> > I also agree with you that purpose of any research should > be 'betterment of> > humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied a little > further> > astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.> > > > There are two roads which also converge somewhere. Truth is also > sought for> > its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest for anything > for its> > own sake may not be interested in application. This is called basic > research> > or pure science. But that does not also mean that once they find > something,> > it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied science. > Finding the> > truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What was done is > only a> > miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.> > > > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:> > > > - Observation> > - Hypotheses or theory> > - Logical deduction or inference> > - Experiments or tests> > - Application> > > > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the first 3 points. > After> > establishing the three things, we need to test the hypothesis on > good sample> > sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No research can> > absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can only > falsify. This is> > what Einstein meant when he said "No amount of experimentation can > ever> > prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong".All such > exercises> > are only little steps in the process of learning and research, and > no step,> > however small, can be called a waste. And never should a research-> mind be> > disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to success or > failure.> > > > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and what is left > with us> > is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep ocean out > there, and> > no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in this ocean… no> > astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives there. No > astrologer> > one can say that each of his prediction has been correct? But > astrology does> > seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen in > retrospect. This> > encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.> > > > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, and > the one> > that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no one should > call himself> > a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no diagnosis > could be> > made without the help of astrological information on the patient. > Despite,> > it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been accorded the > status> > it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the sound > scientific> > attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-equipped > astrologers> > thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and prove the > worth of> > astrology, and having done that, the second is to put it to good > use. Unless> > we are able to fully establish the first part, we won't even be > allowed to> > pilot the second part.> > > > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear in the > astrological> > studies also. A few decades back, even the the specialized medicare > was> > difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human body is a > single> > system and the study of and practice of medicine should be > comprehensive and> > not restricted to particular area of the anatomy. There were only > general> > practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe remedies for any > ailment.> > > > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as that of the > medicine> > of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger canvass than > any other> > study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers. It would be > good to> > have specialists, and further specialists within each branch of > astrology.> > There could be researchers who come up with inferences and logics > and> > medical astrologers can test them extensively in field and if found > correct> > can start the application. For this a whole system must be > generated where> > multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making authorities at > the helm> > with astrolgers having their due status. Only possibilities of > course… till> > there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.> > > > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the bridge. So we > have to go> > on with the mission and welcome each little opportunity to learn > and grow…> > till we are able say Eureka!!> > > > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all end-all. e.g > the point> > about altering the time of births does not work as it goes against > the basic> > astrological principles. There have been many unsuccessful attempts > also> > when astrologers have recommended specific times of birth and the > child has> > chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says that each > soul will> > choose its time to take birth at a time when the planetary position > make> > possible his journey for his own suffering or enjoyment of karmas. > Can> > anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can, then we fool > ourselves> > and others.> > > > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a guiding light, > and with a> > more scientific approach it can be shown with more confidence, with > better> > focus and better illumination, for the betterment of humanity. And > every> > step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and adds to the > knowledge> > base.> > > > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but I am sure any> > researcher would agree with me.> > > > Regards> > Neelam> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jaya ji, Bhakaran ji and group,Jaya ji, you do not sound unreal at all. Your

concern is real and concrete. And I am fully aware of the seriousness of this

issue. And as Bhaskaran ji has rightly stated, after this exercise, Kansal ji owes us an astrological reasoning and the doctors need to explain their role and responsibility in preventing these mishaps. What started as an academic interest in astrology has turned out a humanitarian concern.

 

What I said was from astrological point of

view and allied research only.

Medical science has clearly established

that many of the congenital disorders are caused by nutritional deficiencies during

pregnancy. It should be

made sure that all pregnant mothers are provided with adequate doses of

vitamins and minerals. This is just plain truth. Here, astrology doesn't even come into picture at all.

I am equally shocked to learn that in one area so

many infant deaths have occurred due to this deficiency in would-be mothers.

The data provided by Kansal ji is an indicator of the callous and careless attitude

of the concerned doctors, who are glorified as a couple working with the poor

population. What are they doing there? Trying to enter Guinness Book of Records

with maximum infant mortality with a disease which they knew how to prevent. For the past 2-3 years, this is happening and

they are saying they have many more such cases. Also note that Kansal ji has

said that not many deliveries take place in that clinic. That means the

percentage of infants born with congenital abnormalities is very high.

In fact, I was waiting for Kansal ji's mail

to come out with his own version on this and then I thought we could try and

see where this has happened. When this exercise started, we were not aware that

this was an issue which could be so ugly. There are many congenital aberrations

which are due to other factors, such as, mutations, environmental etc. Now that

we know it is because of something that could've been checked… it is most

horrifying.

I have started investigations in

Bulandshahr area to get the data form local-level health workers about such

happenings. The point is also that these vitamin supplements are available free

of cost from the Health Ministry / Anganbadi etc. They are very cheap and also

distributed by many philanthropic organisations, particularly when one knows of

such a big problem. All doctors recommend these supplements, but they should

also make sure that women are taking them regularly.

If these doctors have not taken any steps

to stop this repeated unfortunate happening in their area, they are worse than

criminals.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Neelam ji:

 

This is what I have been waiting to hear from you. I did not want to

specifically say anything about the querist or the doctor to avoid

any unnecessary remark from me which might affect the harmonious

group discussion indirectly.

 

I also have asked someone from the area to see how things work there

so that they can reach out to these unfortunate people. I am very

happy to know that you have already started doing something about it.

 

Jaya

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Jaya ji, Bhakaran ji and group,

>

> Jaya ji, you do not sound unreal at all. Your concern is real and

concrete.

> And I am fully aware of the seriousness of this issue. And as

Bhaskaran ji

> has rightly stated, after this exercise, Kansal ji owes us an

astrological

> reasoning and the doctors need to explain their role and

responsibility in

> preventing these mishaps. What started as an academic interest in

astrology

> has turned out a humanitarian concern.

>

> What I said was from astrological point of view and allied research

only.

>

> Medical science has clearly established that many of the congenital

> disorders are caused by nutritional deficiencies during pregnancy.

It should

> be made sure that all pregnant mothers are provided with adequate

doses of

> vitamins and minerals. This is just plain truth. Here, astrology

doesn't

> even come into picture at all.

>

> I am equally shocked to learn that in one area so many infant

deaths have

> occurred due to this deficiency in would-be mothers. The data

provided by

> Kansal ji is an indicator of the callous and careless attitude of

the

> concerned doctors, who are glorified as a couple working with the

poor

> population. What are they doing there? Trying to enter Guinness

Book of

> Records with maximum infant mortality with a disease which they

knew how to

> prevent. For the past 2-3 years, this is happening and they are

saying they

> have many more such cases. Also note that Kansal ji has said that

not many

> deliveries take place in that clinic. That means the percentage of

infants

> born with congenital abnormalities is very high.

>

> In fact, I was waiting for Kansal ji's mail to come out with his

own version

> on this and then I thought we could try and see where this has

happened.

> When this exercise started, we were not aware that this was an

issue which

> could be so ugly. There are many congenital aberrations which are

due to

> other factors, such as, mutations, environmental etc. Now that we

know it is

> because of something that could've been checked… it is most

horrifying.

>

> I have started investigations in Bulandshahr area to get the data

form

> local-level health workers about such happenings. The point is also

that

> these vitamin supplements are available free of cost from the Health

> Ministry / Anganbadi etc. They are very cheap and also distributed

by many

> philanthropic organisations, particularly when one knows of such a

big

> problem. All doctors recommend these supplements, but they should

also make

> sure that women are taking them regularly.

>

> If these doctors have not taken any steps to stop this repeated

unfortunate

> happening in their area, they are worse than criminals.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Ji, Dear Sreenadh Ji,

 

Thank you Neelam Ji, for this simply wonderful write-up and to you

Sreenadh Ji for creating and your active contribution on this group.

I have the feeling i will learn easier Jyotish having such great

examples, such constructive discussions.For now i am only an active

reader of your posts and i hope soon i can give my contribution in

discussions.

Love and kind Regards,

Liana

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Neelam ji,

> That was an excellent write-up! I have formatted the same uploaded

> the file at:

>

Neelam%20Gu\

> pta/Astrology%20the%20guiding%20light.doc

>

<Neelam%20G\

> upta/Astrology%20the%20guiding%20light.doc>

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " neelam gupta "

> <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,

> >

> > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I agree with you,

> that

> > this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life yet, and appear

> futile.

> > I also agree with you that purpose of any research should be

> 'betterment of

> > humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied a little

> further

> > astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.

> >

> > There are two roads which also converge somewhere. Truth is also

> sought for

> > its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest for anything for

> its

> > own sake may not be interested in application. This is called basic

> research

> > or pure science. But that does not also mean that once they find

> something,

> > it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied science.

> Finding the

> > truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What was done is only

> a

> > miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.

> >

> > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:

> >

> > - Observation

> > - Hypotheses or theory

> > - Logical deduction or inference

> > - Experiments or tests

> > - Application

> >

> > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the first 3 points.

> After

> > establishing the three things, we need to test the hypothesis on good

> sample

> > sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No research can

> > absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can only falsify.

> This is

> > what Einstein meant when he said " No amount of experimentation can

> ever

> > prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong " .All such

> exercises

> > are only little steps in the process of learning and research, and no

> step,

> > however small, can be called a waste. And never should a research-mind

> be

> > disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to success or

> failure.

> >

> > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and what is left

> with us

> > is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep ocean out

> there, and

> > no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in this ocean…

> no

> > astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives there. No

> astrologer

> > one can say that each of his prediction has been correct? But

> astrology does

> > seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen in retrospect.

> This

> > encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.

> >

> > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, and the

> one

> > that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no one should call

> himself

> > a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no diagnosis

> could be

> > made without the help of astrological information on the patient.

> Despite,

> > it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been accorded the

> status

> > it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the sound

> scientific

> > attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-equipped

> astrologers

> > thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and prove the

> worth of

> > astrology, and having done that, the second is to put it to good use.

> Unless

> > we are able to fully establish the first part, we won't even be

> allowed to

> > pilot the second part.

> >

> > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear in the

> astrological

> > studies also. A few decades back, even the the specialized medicare

> was

> > difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human body is a

> single

> > system and the study of and practice of medicine should be

> comprehensive and

> > not restricted to particular area of the anatomy. There were only

> general

> > practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe remedies for any

> ailment.

> >

> > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as that of the

> medicine

> > of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger canvass than

> any other

> > study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers. It would be

> good to

> > have specialists, and further specialists within each branch of

> astrology.

> > There could be researchers who come up with inferences and logics and

> > medical astrologers can test them extensively in field and if found

> correct

> > can start the application. For this a whole system must be generated

> where

> > multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making authorities at the

> helm

> > with astrolgers having their due status. Only possibilities of

> course… till

> > there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.

> >

> > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the bridge. So we have

> to go

> > on with the mission and welcome each little opportunity to learn and

> grow…

> > till we are able say Eureka!!

> >

> > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all end-all. e.g the

> point

> > about altering the time of births does not work as it goes against the

> basic

> > astrological principles. There have been many unsuccessful attempts

> also

> > when astrologers have recommended specific times of birth and the

> child has

> > chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says that each soul

> will

> > choose its time to take birth at a time when the planetary position

> make

> > possible his journey for his own suffering or enjoyment of karmas. Can

> > anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can, then we fool

> ourselves

> > and others.

> >

> > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a guiding light, and

> with a

> > more scientific approach it can be shown with more confidence, with

> better

> > focus and better illumination, for the betterment of humanity. And

> every

> > step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and adds to the

> knowledge

> > base.

> >

> > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but I am sure any

> > researcher would agree with me.

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

I would like to inform you i uploaded a file called " The subtle causes

of diseases " , you can check it on:

 

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/cOumSNhnob8WV3VpPFOhx8AvghFGoVuqxDEafYS9Rqv\

Em0pNfS4b6TuGk6vg6XFSqmwMG_3MlKSDXpA_2gEfSwhpKXFPq94/Spirituality/Subtle\

%20cause%20of%20diseases.pdf

<http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/cOumSNhnob8WV3VpPFOhx8AvghFGoVuqxDEafYS9Rq\

vEm0pNfS4b6TuGk6vg6XFSqmwMG_3MlKSDXpA_2gEfSwhpKXFPq94/Spirituality/Subtl\

e%20cause%20of%20diseases.pdf>

 

I hope you will find a bit time to check it and think it might help.

Love and kind Regards,

 

Liana

 

 

, K Gopu <kgopu_24

wrote:

>

>

>

> dear Bhagawathiji and jaya ji,

>

>

>

>

> Medical services ( govt) are very poor in the states of Bihar, madhya

pradesh, Uttar pradesh and Orissa. ie the infrastructure may not be

available, large scale pilferage of medical supplies from the govt

hospital happens. this drives the illeterate patient seek the services

of the quacks particularly in districts. whereas the rest of india there

is a reasonably good medical services available to the poor even in govt

hospitals. U cant blame the govt hospitals because the average

attendance in an rural health centre will be at least 70-100 per day for

which there will be only one or two doctors attending to them. So that

is the pathetic condition in our country. all the major cities are

equipped with good private and govt hospitals where the treatment is

much better than what is offered in western countries.

>

>

> here a surgeon in a govt hospital will perform minimum of 3 major

surgeries a day which u cant expect a doctor in the western countries

will ever do. high population is one reason in our country which

neagates all the good systems available. Anyway the four abovementioned

states, their rulers shud wake up and take care of the poor people over

there, otherwise this pathetic state of mortality will be ever

increasing. This is totally a non astro subject but however this is a

true picture prevailing in our country.

>

> good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Liana,Thank you. We look forward to your active participation.RegardsNeelam2008/8/16 blulisan <blulisan

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam Ji, Dear Sreenadh Ji,

 

Thank you Neelam Ji, for this simply wonderful write-up and to you

Sreenadh Ji for creating and your active contribution on this group.

I have the feeling i will learn easier Jyotish having such great

examples, such constructive discussions.For now i am only an active

reader of your posts and i hope soon i can give my contribution in

discussions.

Love and kind Regards,

Liana

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Neelam ji,

> That was an excellent write-up! I have formatted the same uploaded

> the file at:

>

Neelam%20Gu\

> pta/Astrology%20the%20guiding%20light.doc

>

<Neelam%20G\

> upta/Astrology%20the%20guiding%20light.doc>

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " neelam gupta "

> <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,

> >

> > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I agree with you,

> that

> > this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life yet, and appear

> futile.

> > I also agree with you that purpose of any research should be

> 'betterment of

> > humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied a little

> further

> > astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.

> >

> > There are two roads which also converge somewhere. Truth is also

> sought for

> > its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest for anything for

> its

> > own sake may not be interested in application. This is called basic

> research

> > or pure science. But that does not also mean that once they find

> something,

> > it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied science.

> Finding the

> > truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What was done is only

> a

> > miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.

> >

> > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:

> >

> > - Observation

> > - Hypotheses or theory

> > - Logical deduction or inference

> > - Experiments or tests

> > - Application

> >

> > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the first 3 points.

> After

> > establishing the three things, we need to test the hypothesis on good

> sample

> > sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No research can

> > absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can only falsify.

> This is

> > what Einstein meant when he said " No amount of experimentation can

> ever

> > prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong " .All such

> exercises

> > are only little steps in the process of learning and research, and no

> step,

> > however small, can be called a waste. And never should a research-mind

> be

> > disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to success or

> failure.

> >

> > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and what is left

> with us

> > is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep ocean out

> there, and

> > no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in this ocean…

> no

> > astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives there. No

> astrologer

> > one can say that each of his prediction has been correct? But

> astrology does

> > seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen in retrospect.

> This

> > encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.

> >

> > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, and the

> one

> > that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no one should call

> himself

> > a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no diagnosis

> could be

> > made without the help of astrological information on the patient.

> Despite,

> > it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been accorded the

> status

> > it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the sound

> scientific

> > attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-equipped

> astrologers

> > thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and prove the

> worth of

> > astrology, and having done that, the second is to put it to good use.

> Unless

> > we are able to fully establish the first part, we won't even be

> allowed to

> > pilot the second part.

> >

> > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear in the

> astrological

> > studies also. A few decades back, even the the specialized medicare

> was

> > difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human body is a

> single

> > system and the study of and practice of medicine should be

> comprehensive and

> > not restricted to particular area of the anatomy. There were only

> general

> > practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe remedies for any

> ailment.

> >

> > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as that of the

> medicine

> > of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger canvass than

> any other

> > study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers. It would be

> good to

> > have specialists, and further specialists within each branch of

> astrology.

> > There could be researchers who come up with inferences and logics and

> > medical astrologers can test them extensively in field and if found

> correct

> > can start the application. For this a whole system must be generated

> where

> > multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making authorities at the

> helm

> > with astrolgers having their due status. Only possibilities of

> course… till

> > there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.

> >

> > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the bridge. So we have

> to go

> > on with the mission and welcome each little opportunity to learn and

> grow…

> > till we are able say Eureka!!

> >

> > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all end-all. e.g the

> point

> > about altering the time of births does not work as it goes against the

> basic

> > astrological principles. There have been many unsuccessful attempts

> also

> > when astrologers have recommended specific times of birth and the

> child has

> > chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says that each soul

> will

> > choose its time to take birth at a time when the planetary position

> make

> > possible his journey for his own suffering or enjoyment of karmas. Can

> > anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can, then we fool

> ourselves

> > and others.

> >

> > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a guiding light, and

> with a

> > more scientific approach it can be shown with more confidence, with

> better

> > focus and better illumination, for the betterment of humanity. And

> every

> > step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and adds to the

> knowledge

> > base.

> >

> > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but I am sure any

> > researcher would agree with me.

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji:

 

The message in blue can never go unseen even across the globe. So I

am just acknowledging you that it is received loud and clear.

 

For few days I thought of us as a group of human beings without any

groupism within. Sorry, for the unnessecary discussion and waste of

time.

 

Best,

Jaya

 

 

s , " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Jaya ji,

> We are NOT trying to cure the disease of a child (that is NOT the

> purpose of this forum) but trying to improve our understanding of

> astrology and prediction skills (that is what this forum is for).

So

> these horoscopes (whether blind charts or chart of kids with some

> specific disease or the chart of a still born child) serves well the

> purpose of " improving our understanding of astrological principles

and

> their practical application " ; actually that is really the purpose of

> such exercises. Don't expect the unintended (such as how to cure

all

> those mothers and kids ; how to avoid all such diseases etc)

results

> from such discussions, because all those " expectations " are outside

the

> intention of such discussions in an astrology group.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " revati_n27 "

> <revati_n27@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskaran ji:

> >

> > My concern could be due to my ignorance and please bear with me.

> > There is a saying in Malayalam " chatha kunjinte jathakam enthinu

> > ezhuthunnu " literally meaning " why to write the horoscope of a

still-

> > born child " meant for the unnecessary discussion on something that

> > has already happened.

> >

> > Neelam ji has done an exemplorary job in pinpointing the exact

> > disease without knowing anything about it. That is great, I

> > understood.

> >

> > But in practical life, kids are already born with the disease and

I

> > don't understand the meaning of " prediction " anymore. I won't

write

> > on this anymore.

> >

> > Jaya

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > rajiventerprises@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Jayaji,

> > >

> > > I appreciate your honest mail. Neelamji has done her job. The

rest

> > of

> > > the astrologers on the forum have done their jobs. Now only 2

people

> > > remain, to respond, one is the Doctor of the Nursing Home in

> > question,

> > > and the the other, is the Querist, Shri Shyam Kansalji.

> > >

> > > He did not reveal the name of the disease even after his

accepting

> > that

> > > he knows it but in process of wishing to guage the knowledge of

the

> > > astrologers, he did not reveal the same, which is okay and

> > acceptable.

> > >

> > > I understand that Shri Shyam Kansalji is also an astrologer, so

i

> > expect

> > > his own analysis and deductions , and subsequent conclusions on

> > board.

> > >

> > > Next - What steps would be taken now, for future births under

such

> > > configurations , after one of the astrologers here has deducted

the

> > > actual disease , which is what was required by the Querist ?

> > >

> > > What did the Querist understand after one member has pointed

out the

> > > disease ? I mean what was understood astrologically ? We would

be

> > > obliged if that is enumerated pointwise in astrological

knowledge

> > and

> > > parlance, presented to the members .

> > >

> > > Bhaskaran.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " revati_n27 "

> > > <revati_n27@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Neelamji:

> > > >

> > > > You are very clear in what you wanted to say as usual. But you

> > know

> > > > my concern in none of that.

> > > >

> > > > First step of research

> > > > 1. Observation

> > > >

> > > > If I were to review the proposal for funding, I would deny the

> > same

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1. It has been recognised as a birth defect during the early

> > stage of

> > > > gestation and has been proven to prevent by providing folic

acid

> > to

> > > > expectant moms. So, best way is availability of health

awareness

> > and

> > > > nutritional supplements to expectant moms.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The defect occurs in the first three months of gestation

and

> > what

> > > > is the use of prdicting after the birth of the child who is

> > already

> > > > born with the fatal defect.

> > > >

> > > > I was concerned that none was much bothered about the value of

> > human

> > > > life here rather worried about how well we can utilize this

> > > > unfortunate situation.

> > > >

> > > > I may sound unreal, but I could not help. A child's life is

very

> > > > precious, even if it is one day of gestation. We only

understand

> > > > that when we put ourselves in that position.

> > > >

> > > > Neelamji, I have a ray of hope in my mind and am aware of your

> > > > generous deeds. My views are only about this particular case

> > study.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > jaya

> > > >

> > > > , " neelam

gupta "

> > > > neelamgupta07@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,

> > > > >

> > > > > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I agree

with

> > you,

> > > > that

> > > > > this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life yet,

and

> > > > appear futile.

> > > > > I also agree with you that purpose of any research should

> > > > be 'betterment of

> > > > > humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied a

little

> > > > further

> > > > > astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.

> > > > >

> > > > > There are two roads which also converge somewhere. Truth is

also

> > > > sought for

> > > > > its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest for

> > anything

> > > > for its

> > > > > own sake may not be interested in application. This is

called

> > basic

> > > > research

> > > > > or pure science. But that does not also mean that once they

find

> > > > something,

> > > > > it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied

science.

> > > > Finding the

> > > > > truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What was

done

> > is

> > > > only a

> > > > > miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.

> > > > >

> > > > > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:

> > > > >

> > > > > - Observation

> > > > > - Hypotheses or theory

> > > > > - Logical deduction or inference

> > > > > - Experiments or tests

> > > > > - Application

> > > > >

> > > > > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the first 3

> > points.

> > > > After

> > > > > establishing the three things, we need to test the

hypothesis on

> > > > good sample

> > > > > sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No

> > research can

> > > > > absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can only

> > > > falsify. This is

> > > > > what Einstein meant when he said " No amount of

experimentation

> > can

> > > > ever

> > > > > prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong " .All

such

> > > > exercises

> > > > > are only little steps in the process of learning and

research,

> > and

> > > > no step,

> > > > > however small, can be called a waste. And never should a

> > research-

> > > > mind be

> > > > > disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to

success or

> > > > failure.

> > > > >

> > > > > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and what

is

> > left

> > > > with us

> > > > > is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep

ocean

> > out

> > > > there, and

> > > > > no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in this

> ocean…

> > > no

> > > > > astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives

there.

> > No

> > > > astrologer

> > > > > one can say that each of his prediction has been correct?

But

> > > > astrology does

> > > > > seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen in

> > > > retrospect. This

> > > > > encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.

> > > > >

> > > > > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of

Medicine,

> > and

> > > > the one

> > > > > that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no one

should

> > > > call himself

> > > > > a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no

> > diagnosis

> > > > could be

> > > > > made without the help of astrological information on the

> > patient.

> > > > Despite,

> > > > > it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been

accorded

> > the

> > > > status

> > > > > it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the

sound

> > > > scientific

> > > > > attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-equipped

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and

prove

> > the

> > > > worth of

> > > > > astrology, and having done that, the second is to put it to

good

> > > > use. Unless

> > > > > we are able to fully establish the first part, we won't

even be

> > > > allowed to

> > > > > pilot the second part.

> > > > >

> > > > > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear in the

> > > > astrological

> > > > > studies also. A few decades back, even the the specialized

> > medicare

> > > > was

> > > > > difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human body

is a

> > > > single

> > > > > system and the study of and practice of medicine should be

> > > > comprehensive and

> > > > > not restricted to particular area of the anatomy. There were

> > only

> > > > general

> > > > > practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe remedies for

any

> > > > ailment.

> > > > >

> > > > > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as that

of

> > the

> > > > medicine

> > > > > of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger canvass

> > > than

> > > > any other

> > > > > study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers. It

> would

> > > be

> > > > good to

> > > > > have specialists, and further specialists within each

branch of

> > > > astrology.

> > > > > There could be researchers who come up with inferences and

> > logics

> > > > and

> > > > > medical astrologers can test them extensively in field and

if

> > found

> > > > correct

> > > > > can start the application. For this a whole system must be

> > > > generated where

> > > > > multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making

authorities

> > at

> > > > the helm

> > > > > with astrolgers having their due status. Only possibilities

of

> > > > course… till

> > > > > there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.

> > > > >

> > > > > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the bridge.

So we

> > > > have to go

> > > > > on with the mission and welcome each little opportunity to

learn

> > > > and grow…

> > > > > till we are able say Eureka!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all end-

all.

> > e.g

> > > > the point

> > > > > about altering the time of births does not work as it goes

> > against

> > > > the basic

> > > > > astrological principles. There have been many unsuccessful

> > attempts

> > > > also

> > > > > when astrologers have recommended specific times of birth

and

> > the

> > > > child has

> > > > > chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says that

each

> > > > soul will

> > > > > choose its time to take birth at a time when the planetary

> > position

> > > > make

> > > > > possible his journey for his own suffering or enjoyment of

> > karmas.

> > > > Can

> > > > > anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can, then we

fool

> > > > ourselves

> > > > > and others.

> > > > >

> > > > > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a guiding

light,

> > > > and with a

> > > > > more scientific approach it can be shown with more

confidence,

> > with

> > > > better

> > > > > focus and better illumination, for the betterment of

humanity.

> > And

> > > > every

> > > > > step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and adds

to

> > the

> > > > knowledge

> > > > > base.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but I am

sure

> > any

> > > > > researcher would agree with me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Neelam

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jaya ji, We are a group of compassionate human beings with our own limitations, but still with a heart to break the limitations if there is a call from within. You are absolutely right and I have a high regards for your knowledge and compaction. When the discussion was taking an unintended turn, I was just guiding it to drive it to the purpose/interest due to which we are here for. Going tangential happens at times, and is certainly ok, regarding our astro discussions, but someone should be there to pull the strings back to the area of interest. When looked from the compassionate human perspective, you are right and I am wrong. So don't worry about it at all. Certainly it is NOT a waste of time; a compassionate heart is much valuable than anything else. I was just playing the contextual role (of a moderator guiding the thread right in an astro forum); but otherwise agree to you completely.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "revati_n27" <revati_n27 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji:> > The message in blue can never go unseen even across the globe. So I > am just acknowledging you that it is received loud and clear. > > For few days I thought of us as a group of human beings without any > groupism within. Sorry, for the unnessecary discussion and waste of > time. > > Best,> Jaya> > > s , "Sreenadh" > sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear Jaya ji,> > We are NOT trying to cure the disease of a child (that is NOT the> > purpose of this forum) but trying to improve our understanding of> > astrology and prediction skills (that is what this forum is for). > So> > these horoscopes (whether blind charts or chart of kids with some> > specific disease or the chart of a still born child) serves well the> > purpose of "improving our understanding of astrological principles > and> > their practical application"; actually that is really the purpose of> > such exercises. Don't expect the unintended (such as how to cure > all> > those mothers and kids ; how to avoid all such diseases etc) > results> > from such discussions, because all those "expectations" are outside > the> > intention of such discussions in an astrology group.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "revati_n27"> > <revati_n27@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskaran ji:> > >> > > My concern could be due to my ignorance and please bear with me.> > > There is a saying in Malayalam "chatha kunjinte jathakam enthinu> > > ezhuthunnu" literally meaning "why to write the horoscope of a > still-> > > born child" meant for the unnecessary discussion on something that> > > has already happened.> > >> > > Neelam ji has done an exemplorary job in pinpointing the exact> > > disease without knowing anything about it. That is great, I> > > understood.> > >> > > But in practical life, kids are already born with the disease and > I> > > don't understand the meaning of "prediction" anymore. I won't > write> > > on this anymore.> > >> > > Jaya> > >> > > , "Bhaskar"> > > rajiventerprises@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Jayaji,> > > >> > > > I appreciate your honest mail. Neelamji has done her job. The > rest> > > of> > > > the astrologers on the forum have done their jobs. Now only 2 > people> > > > remain, to respond, one is the Doctor of the Nursing Home in> > > question,> > > > and the the other, is the Querist, Shri Shyam Kansalji.> > > >> > > > He did not reveal the name of the disease even after his > accepting> > > that> > > > he knows it but in process of wishing to guage the knowledge of > the> > > > astrologers, he did not reveal the same, which is okay and> > > acceptable.> > > >> > > > I understand that Shri Shyam Kansalji is also an astrologer, so > i> > > expect> > > > his own analysis and deductions , and subsequent conclusions on> > > board.> > > >> > > > Next - What steps would be taken now, for future births under > such> > > > configurations , after one of the astrologers here has deducted > the> > > > actual disease , which is what was required by the Querist ?> > > >> > > > What did the Querist understand after one member has pointed > out the> > > > disease ? I mean what was understood astrologically ? We would > be> > > > obliged if that is enumerated pointwise in astrological > knowledge> > > and> > > > parlance, presented to the members .> > > >> > > > Bhaskaran.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "revati_n27"> > > > <revati_n27@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Neelamji:> > > > >> > > > > You are very clear in what you wanted to say as usual. But you> > > know> > > > > my concern in none of that.> > > > >> > > > > First step of research> > > > > 1. Observation> > > > >> > > > > If I were to review the proposal for funding, I would deny the> > > same> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > 1. It has been recognised as a birth defect during the early> > > stage of> > > > > gestation and has been proven to prevent by providing folic > acid> > > to> > > > > expectant moms. So, best way is availability of health > awareness> > > and> > > > > nutritional supplements to expectant moms.> > > > >> > > > > 2. The defect occurs in the first three months of gestation > and> > > what> > > > > is the use of prdicting after the birth of the child who is> > > already> > > > > born with the fatal defect.> > > > >> > > > > I was concerned that none was much bothered about the value of> > > human> > > > > life here rather worried about how well we can utilize this> > > > > unfortunate situation.> > > > >> > > > > I may sound unreal, but I could not help. A child's life is > very> > > > > precious, even if it is one day of gestation. We only > understand> > > > > that when we put ourselves in that position.> > > > >> > > > > Neelamji, I have a ray of hope in my mind and am aware of your> > > > > generous deeds. My views are only about this particular case> > > study.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > > jaya> > > > >> > > > > , "neelam > gupta"> > > > > neelamgupta07@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,> > > > > >> > > > > > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I agree > with> > > you,> > > > > that> > > > > > this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life yet, > and> > > > > appear futile.> > > > > > I also agree with you that purpose of any research should> > > > > be 'betterment of> > > > > > humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied a > little> > > > > further> > > > > > astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.> > > > > >> > > > > > There are two roads which also converge somewhere. Truth is > also> > > > > sought for> > > > > > its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest for> > > anything> > > > > for its> > > > > > own sake may not be interested in application. This is > called> > > basic> > > > > research> > > > > > or pure science. But that does not also mean that once they > find> > > > > something,> > > > > > it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied > science.> > > > > Finding the> > > > > > truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What was > done> > > is> > > > > only a> > > > > > miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.> > > > > >> > > > > > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:> > > > > >> > > > > > - Observation> > > > > > - Hypotheses or theory> > > > > > - Logical deduction or inference> > > > > > - Experiments or tests> > > > > > - Application> > > > > >> > > > > > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the first 3> > > points.> > > > > After> > > > > > establishing the three things, we need to test the > hypothesis on> > > > > good sample> > > > > > sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No> > > research can> > > > > > absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can only> > > > > falsify. This is> > > > > > what Einstein meant when he said "No amount of > experimentation> > > can> > > > > ever> > > > > > prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong".All > such> > > > > exercises> > > > > > are only little steps in the process of learning and > research,> > > and> > > > > no step,> > > > > > however small, can be called a waste. And never should a> > > research-> > > > > mind be> > > > > > disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to > success or> > > > > failure.> > > > > >> > > > > > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and what > is> > > left> > > > > with us> > > > > > is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep > ocean> > > out> > > > > there, and> > > > > > no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in this> > ocean…> > > > no> > > > > > astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives > there.> > > No> > > > > astrologer> > > > > > one can say that each of his prediction has been correct? > But> > > > > astrology does> > > > > > seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen in> > > > > retrospect. This> > > > > > encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.> > > > > >> > > > > > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of > Medicine,> > > and> > > > > the one> > > > > > that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no one > should> > > > > call himself> > > > > > a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no> > > diagnosis> > > > > could be> > > > > > made without the help of astrological information on the> > > patient.> > > > > Despite,> > > > > > it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been > accorded> > > the> > > > > status> > > > > > it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the > sound> > > > > scientific> > > > > > attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-equipped> > > > > astrologers> > > > > > thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and > prove> > > the> > > > > worth of> > > > > > astrology, and having done that, the second is to put it to > good> > > > > use. Unless> > > > > > we are able to fully establish the first part, we won't > even be> > > > > allowed to> > > > > > pilot the second part.> > > > > >> > > > > > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear in the> > > > > astrological> > > > > > studies also. A few decades back, even the the specialized> > > medicare> > > > > was> > > > > > difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human body > is a> > > > > single> > > > > > system and the study of and practice of medicine should be> > > > > comprehensive and> > > > > > not restricted to particular area of the anatomy. There were> > > only> > > > > general> > > > > > practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe remedies for > any> > > > > ailment.> > > > > >> > > > > > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as that > of> > > the> > > > > medicine> > > > > > of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger canvass> > > > than> > > > > any other> > > > > > study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers. It> > would> > > > be> > > > > good to> > > > > > have specialists, and further specialists within each > branch of> > > > > astrology.> > > > > > There could be researchers who come up with inferences and> > > logics> > > > > and> > > > > > medical astrologers can test them extensively in field and > if> > > found> > > > > correct> > > > > > can start the application. For this a whole system must be> > > > > generated where> > > > > > multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making > authorities> > > at> > > > > the helm> > > > > > with astrolgers having their due status. Only possibilities > of> > > > > course… till> > > > > > there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.> > > > > >> > > > > > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the bridge. > So we> > > > > have to go> > > > > > on with the mission and welcome each little opportunity to > learn> > > > > and grow…> > > > > > till we are able say Eureka!!> > > > > >> > > > > > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all end-> all.> > > e.g> > > > > the point> > > > > > about altering the time of births does not work as it goes> > > against> > > > > the basic> > > > > > astrological principles. There have been many unsuccessful> > > attempts> > > > > also> > > > > > when astrologers have recommended specific times of birth > and> > > the> > > > > child has> > > > > > chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says that > each> > > > > soul will> > > > > > choose its time to take birth at a time when the planetary> > > position> > > > > make> > > > > > possible his journey for his own suffering or enjoyment of> > > karmas.> > > > > Can> > > > > > anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can, then we > fool> > > > > ourselves> > > > > > and others.> > > > > >> > > > > > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a guiding > light,> > > > > and with a> > > > > > more scientific approach it can be shown with more > confidence,> > > with> > > > > better> > > > > > focus and better illumination, for the betterment of > humanity.> > > And> > > > > every> > > > > > step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and adds > to> > > the> > > > > knowledge> > > > > > base.> > > > > >> > > > > > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but I am > sure> > > any> > > > > > researcher would agree with me.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Neelam> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

 

Thanks...I know you have an illuminated soul

 

blessings

 

Renu

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Renu ji,

> Agreed. [] You are right. []

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " renunw " <renunw@>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji,

> >

> > Charge me for trespassing...but allow me to say a few words.

> >

> > Agreed. This is an astrology discussion forum and the priority

should

> be

> > discussions relative to the subject matter. But still a

compassionate

> > heart of a mother would be deeply concerned when she comes

across such

> > preventable cases of infant deaths...merely due to the

negligence of

> the

> > doctor. Hence I personally feel that Jaya ji was not wrong in

coming

> > out with her genuine feelings regarding this particular case.

> >

> > A voice for the needy should never go unheard.

> >

> > blessings

> >

> > Renu

> >

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > sreesog@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jaya ji,

> > > We are NOT trying to cure the disease of a child (that is NOT

the

> > > purpose of this forum) but trying to improve our understanding

of

> > > astrology and prediction skills (that is what this forum is

for). So

> > > these horoscopes (whether blind charts or chart of kids with

some

> > > specific disease or the chart of a still born child) serves

well the

> > > purpose of " improving our understanding of astrological

principles

> and

> > > their practical application " ; actually that is really the

purpose of

> > > such exercises. Don't expect the unintended (such as how to

cure all

> > > those mothers and kids ; how to avoid all such diseases etc)

results

> > > from such discussions, because all those " expectations " are

outside

> > the

> > > intention of such discussions in an astrology group.

> > > Love and regards,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " revati_n27 "

> > > revati_n27@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhaskaran ji:

> > > >

> > > > My concern could be due to my ignorance and please bear with

me.

> > > > There is a saying in Malayalam " chatha kunjinte jathakam

enthinu

> > > > ezhuthunnu " literally meaning " why to write the horoscope of

a

> > still-

> > > > born child " meant for the unnecessary discussion on

something that

> > > > has already happened.

> > > >

> > > > Neelam ji has done an exemplorary job in pinpointing the

exact

> > > > disease without knowing anything about it. That is great, I

> > > > understood.

> > > >

> > > > But in practical life, kids are already born with the

disease and

> I

> > > > don't understand the meaning of " prediction " anymore. I won't

> write

> > > > on this anymore.

> > > >

> > > > Jaya

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > rajiventerprises@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Jayaji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I appreciate your honest mail. Neelamji has done her job.

The

> rest

> > > > of

> > > > > the astrologers on the forum have done their jobs. Now

only 2

> > people

> > > > > remain, to respond, one is the Doctor of the Nursing Home

in

> > > > question,

> > > > > and the the other, is the Querist, Shri Shyam Kansalji.

> > > > >

> > > > > He did not reveal the name of the disease even after his

> accepting

> > > > that

> > > > > he knows it but in process of wishing to guage the

knowledge of

> > the

> > > > > astrologers, he did not reveal the same, which is okay and

> > > > acceptable.

> > > > >

> > > > > I understand that Shri Shyam Kansalji is also an

astrologer, so

> i

> > > > expect

> > > > > his own analysis and deductions , and subsequent

conclusions on

> > > > board.

> > > > >

> > > > > Next - What steps would be taken now, for future births

under

> such

> > > > > configurations , after one of the astrologers here has

deducted

> > the

> > > > > actual disease , which is what was required by the

Querist ?

> > > > >

> > > > > What did the Querist understand after one member has

pointed out

> > the

> > > > > disease ? I mean what was understood astrologically ? We

would

> be

> > > > > obliged if that is enumerated pointwise in astrological

> knowledge

> > > > and

> > > > > parlance, presented to the members .

> > > > >

> > > > > Bhaskaran.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

, " revati_n27 "

> > > > > <revati_n27@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Neelamji:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are very clear in what you wanted to say as usual.

But you

> > > > know

> > > > > > my concern in none of that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First step of research

> > > > > > 1. Observation

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If I were to review the proposal for funding, I would

deny the

> > > > same

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. It has been recognised as a birth defect during the

early

> > > > stage of

> > > > > > gestation and has been proven to prevent by providing

folic

> acid

> > > > to

> > > > > > expectant moms. So, best way is availability of health

> awareness

> > > > and

> > > > > > nutritional supplements to expectant moms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. The defect occurs in the first three months of

gestation

> and

> > > > what

> > > > > > is the use of prdicting after the birth of the child who

is

> > > > already

> > > > > > born with the fatal defect.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was concerned that none was much bothered about the

value of

> > > > human

> > > > > > life here rather worried about how well we can utilize

this

> > > > > > unfortunate situation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I may sound unreal, but I could not help. A child's life

is

> very

> > > > > > precious, even if it is one day of gestation. We only

> understand

> > > > > > that when we put ourselves in that position.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Neelamji, I have a ray of hope in my mind and am aware

of your

> > > > > > generous deeds. My views are only about this particular

case

> > > > study.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > jaya

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " neelam

> gupta "

> > > > > > neelamgupta07@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Jaya ji and Bhaskaran ji and group,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know what you mean and understand your concern. I

agree

> with

> > > > you,

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > this exercise may not come to the rescue of any life

yet,

> and

> > > > > > appear futile.

> > > > > > > I also agree with you that purpose of any research

should

> > > > > > be 'betterment of

> > > > > > > humanity'. It is only an observation which was studied

a

> > little

> > > > > > further

> > > > > > > astrologically. It is not yet ready for application.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are two roads which also converge somewhere.

Truth is

> > also

> > > > > > sought for

> > > > > > > its own sake. And those who are engaged in the quest

for

> > > > anything

> > > > > > for its

> > > > > > > own sake may not be interested in application. This is

> called

> > > > basic

> > > > > > research

> > > > > > > or pure science. But that does not also mean that once

they

> > find

> > > > > > something,

> > > > > > > it cannot be put to good use which comes under applied

> > science.

> > > > > > Finding the

> > > > > > > truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough. What

was

> done

> > > > is

> > > > > > only a

> > > > > > > miniscule part of any scientific approach or method.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are 5 steps in any research methodology:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - Observation

> > > > > > > - Hypotheses or theory

> > > > > > > - Logical deduction or inference

> > > > > > > - Experiments or tests

> > > > > > > - Application

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here, in this case, we are only lurking within the

first 3

> > > > points.

> > > > > > After

> > > > > > > establishing the three things, we need to test the

> hypothesis

> > on

> > > > > > good sample

> > > > > > > sizes and then try to apply for any further success. No

> > > > research can

> > > > > > > absolutely verify or prove the truth, if at all it can

only

> > > > > > falsify. This is

> > > > > > > what Einstein meant when he said " No amount of

> experimentation

> > > > can

> > > > > > ever

> > > > > > > prove me right; a single experiment can prove me

wrong " .All

> > such

> > > > > > exercises

> > > > > > > are only little steps in the process of learning and

> research,

> > > > and

> > > > > > no step,

> > > > > > > however small, can be called a waste. And never should

a

> > > > research-

> > > > > > mind be

> > > > > > > disappointed by doing any probe, whether it leads to

success

> > or

> > > > > > failure.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our knowledge of ancient astrology is largely lost and

what

> is

> > > > left

> > > > > > with us

> > > > > > > is incomplete and fragmented. Astrology is a vast, deep

> ocean

> > > > out

> > > > > > there, and

> > > > > > > no one can claim to know all the treasures hidden in

this

> > > ocean…

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > astrologer can come up with a pearl every time he dives

> there.

> > > > No

> > > > > > astrologer

> > > > > > > one can say that each of his prediction has been

correct?

> But

> > > > > > astrology does

> > > > > > > seem to provide an answer to every happening when seen

in

> > > > > > retrospect. This

> > > > > > > encourages us to go on with our treasure hunt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Very few people know that Hippocrates, the Father of

> Medicine,

> > > > and

> > > > > > the one

> > > > > > > that medical doctors take an oath from, said that no

one

> > should

> > > > > > call himself

> > > > > > > a doctor unless he/she was also an a astrologer; for no

> > > > diagnosis

> > > > > > could be

> > > > > > > made without the help of astrological information on

the

> > > > patient.

> > > > > > Despite,

> > > > > > > it remains also a fact that astrology has not yet been

> > accorded

> > > > the

> > > > > > status

> > > > > > > it deserves, may be because we have not yet adopted the

> sound

> > > > > > scientific

> > > > > > > attitude and methodology in solving problems. Well-

equipped

> > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > thus, have a two pronged struggle, one to safeguard and

> prove

> > > > the

> > > > > > worth of

> > > > > > > astrology, and having done that, the second is to put

it to

> > good

> > > > > > use. Unless

> > > > > > > we are able to fully establish the first part, we

won't even

> > be

> > > > > > allowed to

> > > > > > > pilot the second part.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Once this is done, some method is expected to appear

in the

> > > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > studies also. A few decades back, even the the

specialized

> > > > medicare

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > difficult to comprehend. The notion was that the human

body

> is

> > a

> > > > > > single

> > > > > > > system and the study of and practice of medicine

should be

> > > > > > comprehensive and

> > > > > > > not restricted to particular area of the anatomy.

There were

> > > > only

> > > > > > general

> > > > > > > practitioners who would diagnose and prescribe

remedies for

> > any

> > > > > > ailment.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The subject of astrology is in a similar situation as

that

> of

> > > > the

> > > > > > medicine

> > > > > > > of those days. Astrology is a vast subject… a larger

> > canvass

> > > > > than

> > > > > > any other

> > > > > > > study…. But still we have mostly general astrologers.

It

> > > would

> > > > > be

> > > > > > good to

> > > > > > > have specialists, and further specialists within each

branch

> > of

> > > > > > astrology.

> > > > > > > There could be researchers who come up with inferences

and

> > > > logics

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > medical astrologers can test them extensively in field

and

> if

> > > > found

> > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > can start the application. For this a whole system

must be

> > > > > > generated where

> > > > > > > multidisciplinary committees can be decision-making

> > authorities

> > > > at

> > > > > > the helm

> > > > > > > with astrolgers having their due status. Only

possibilities

> of

> > > > > > course… till

> > > > > > > there is a consolidated approach to achieve this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We cannot hope to reach the bank till we cross the

bridge.

> So

> > we

> > > > > > have to go

> > > > > > > on with the mission and welcome each little

opportunity to

> > learn

> > > > > > and grow…

> > > > > > > till we are able say Eureka!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology is a great tool, but it can't be the be-all

> end-all.

> > > > e.g

> > > > > > the point

> > > > > > > about altering the time of births does not work as it

goes

> > > > against

> > > > > > the basic

> > > > > > > astrological principles. There have been many

unsuccessful

> > > > attempts

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > when astrologers have recommended specific times of

birth

> and

> > > > the

> > > > > > child has

> > > > > > > chosen its own time to descend. The Law of Karma says

that

> > each

> > > > > > soul will

> > > > > > > choose its time to take birth at a time when the

planetary

> > > > position

> > > > > > make

> > > > > > > possible his journey for his own suffering or

enjoyment of

> > > > karmas.

> > > > > > Can

> > > > > > > anyone, then, alter that time? If we think we can,

then we

> > fool

> > > > > > ourselves

> > > > > > > and others.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In conclusion, I can only say that astrology is a

guiding

> > light,

> > > > > > and with a

> > > > > > > more scientific approach it can be shown with more

> confidence,

> > > > with

> > > > > > better

> > > > > > > focus and better illumination, for the betterment of

> humanity.

> > > > And

> > > > > > every

> > > > > > > step, small or big, taken here or anywhere, counts and

adds

> to

> > > > the

> > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > base.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hope I haven't bored you all with this long mail, but

I am

> > sure

> > > > any

> > > > > > > researcher would agree with me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam jiI am out of my home town since last three days. I am occasionally able to check my mails on some one else's system, whenever I find an opportunity while on the move. But you may understand that it is not always possible to participate in discussions in this situation.However, I am continually reading your and Bhaskar ji's excellent mails on the current subject. I wanted to remain an active participant in current discussion but my out-station visit has interrupted.I find that a simple astrological exercise, aimed to test and sharpen our knowledge, has taken other dimensions and has turned into a humanitarian cause. My intention was simply to put forward a data-set, received from a doctor (which I considered valuable from astrological point of view) before this forum of intelligent astrologers. I found unable to analyze that data myself due pre-occupation with the astrological programming. The data was lying with me since several months and I could not find time to work on it. Instead of sitting duck on it, I thought it better to share this data with this forum.I find that serious questions have been raised on concerned doctor's professional integrity.\\but a series of cases, happening under the nose of medical practitioners, who are aware of the problem and know how it could be avoided. The question is, why did they not take any step to prevent these abnormalities in the infants. As doctors. they could've taken many steps to stop this malady, which they didn't bother to take it seems.\\Neelam ji, your accusations are not correct. I would like to make you aware of the real situation. Unlike big cities or educated local populace of this small city, most of the delivery cases come from rural areas at the last moment to the doctor to avoid any emergencies at home, which might emerge during delivery. The poor doctor has not been consulted by these rural women at any stage prior to the last days of pregnancy. His expertise is hired to ensure a safe delivery only. That's all. In such a situation, how the doctor can advise about the avoidable vitamin deficiency to the concerned women? Lack of awareness in rural women about regular check-ups during pregnancy is the real culprit. I am really amazed on the turn of a pure astrological discussion to a social cause which is beyond the scope and capacity of we, the astrologers and the poor doctor.