Father_Son_Relationship

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavathi ji,Father-son is the only relationship where lords (1-5-9) have to be always natural friends and are also represented by the same sets of constellations. There is an inherent stronger bonding. May be nature has meant it this way. 4L and LL may or may not be friends and LL and 7L are never friends and if temporal friendship exists, at the most they'll become neutral, just endurance.

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ms. Bhagwathi_Hariharanji,

 

Sage Jamadagni married Princess Renuka, Ms. Renuka was daughter of King

Prasenjit. So it wqas a combination of Brahmin & Kshatriya. They

had five sons - Som, Krutvu,Turvasu, Megh & the youngest of them is Lord

Parashuram {my favorite}. All of them received vedic lessons from

their father Sage Jamadagni, the first four could not stand the test of

their father and hence, punished or cursed for lack of faith in him i.e.

Father is supposed to be Guru or Mentor those days.

 

Then came the D-day-time for Kid Parashuram, who when instructed by his

Father-Guru-Mentor{FMG}, slain his mother !! A highly satisfied FMG,

then on request of his son-disciple, restored her life again with his

yogic powers.

 

Sage Jamadagni was a powerful & highly learned Rishi of his times. He

knew that the Lord would be born to him as Parashuram. So do Kid

Parashuram had immense faith in his FMG & his wisdom-yogic powers.

So, understand that Sage Jamadagni could not have given that strange

instruction/command to his son-disciple, without his own confidence of

restoring her life, for she was his wife. Similarly, Kid Parashuram

had knowledge of his FMG.

 

Let us understand why this same strange instruction/command is NOT given

to the first four sons ?? The event that Ms. Renuka went to bath was

enamoured by a sky-roaming Gandharvas, got late in reaching her home,

there was a delay in conducting the daily pujas by Sage Jamadagni, who

still went on to do his work as usual, but on introspection he was

wanted to know the reason for the delay, instead of asking his wife

directly, to avoid & save her embarassment, he looked through his

divine eyes, got tickling of the incident, felt that she " lost " her

pativrata status, hence gave that strange command to Kid Parashuram to

slain her, later restored to life on Kid Parashuram request. This act

has removed the minor blemish of her momentary behavior... i.e. because

she was restored by Yogic power, she was supposed to be born again in

purified state.

 

So Lord Parashuram has the wisdom of Brahmin and ferocity of Kashtriya.

 

With regards,

 

Sreeram_Srinivas

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ms. Bhagavathi_Hariharan ji,

 

Lord Sri Ram did think about his new bride, but it was Ms. Sita, who as

per ideals, decide to follow her husband, who detested to the idea of

enjoying the Royal Palace in his absence. { In today's material world,

this is rarely seen !!}

 

Lord Sri Ram has respected his parents i.e. mother & father equally,

there is NO incidence in both Lord Parashuram or Lord Sri Ram to have

defied their respective mother's instructions anywhere !!! Actually in

my personal opinion, the mothers did NOT give any instructions...!!

 

With regards,

 

Sreeram_Srinivas

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ms. Bhavathi_Hariharan ji,

 

In case of Sage Jamadagni & Lord Parashuram case, the

instructions/commands were of extreme discipline type.

 

In case of King Dasharath & Lord Sri Ram case, the instructions/commands

were of a different kind. Actually it was a indirect command of Queen

Kaikeyi through King Dasharath, that Sri Ram was sent to forest. READ

it as an order from Mother than Father in this Lord Sri Ram case.

 

In Indian mythology as seen in Ramayana & Mahabharata, 12 yrs time

period is taken as a vital or critical or significant period. If there

is a NO communication or meeting in this period of 12 yrs. then the

connection or relation is supposed to be NULL & VOID. Hence, the same

is incorporated in Indian Legal Laws.

 

Adherence to discipline i.e. instructions from Mother or Father are

equally to be followed. Discipline is given predence to other

factors/aspects.

 

So there is NO compromise of Karakas here as inferred by you.....!!

Both have their own signifance. It all depends on what perspective we

see things......

 

With regards,

 

Sreeram_Srinivas

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ms. Bhagvathi_Hariharan ji,

 

Lord Sri Ram handing over his wife Ms. Devi Sita to fire God Agni, as

they entered forest area is one act of safeguarding her in the wild

zone. Her exit through fire test-as all typical feminists call it {ill

informed or illiterate feminists}, was another case of original Ms. Devi

Sita coming back to join her husband.

 

How do we read the inconsistency in the story, for the first instance is

never reported in many Ramayana versions ??

 

Let us again go back to basics - Whenever, Lord " Mighty " Ravana {my

favorite}, tried to advance towards Ms. Devi Sita {except for at the

time of abduction through Maya}, he was warned by Utility Fire God Agni

that he will be burnt to ashes.....

 

Strange - Lord Mighty Ravana, who scored over all three worlds, who

" captured & caged " all Nine Navagrahas " { Navagrahas - 9 astrological

planets} including the defeated Utility Fire God Agni, now coming back

to warn him !! But this time, he held back..... that shows the wisdom

of Lord Mighty Ravana.

 

Interestingly, each time Lord Mighty Ravana tried to approach Ms. Devi

Sita, she took a straw grass, from that Ashoka Vanam- Parijat Garden {

Vanam - Park or forest area i.e. Green Area}, chants a mantra and

releases it as a weapon....which shields her from any other MALE

advances......

 

Did you ever know or seen, still in South Indian villages, there are few

genuine people who heal people through the mantras !! I have known few

such genuine people and seen it working. NO medicine.... unlike

those fishy stuff to cure diabetes like in Hyderabad.....

 

Air, Water = called Utility services in engineering field. I just added

Fire to it.

 

With regards,

 

Sreeram_Srinivas

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreeramji,

 

Thank you for the great explanation. Well, although the Lord

incarnated as Parusharama and Rama, they were in the human form only.

So they acted as humans only, because they had a purpose.

 

Sage Jamadagni could have realized Parashurama and he was aware of

restoring renuka, but the son only listened to his father. Here he

was under test, and he blindly followed his teacher-father. Now

another question arises, did he cut the " woman's head " , being

a " devoted student " or did he cut his " mother's head " , being

a " devoted son " .

 

Sri Ram was asked by his father to go to exile, he already promised

his father he would fulfill his wishes and then his wife came in the

picture. If Sitadevi was against his going to the forest, would Ram

listened to her? If Dasharath was not obliged to kaikeyi, Would he

yielded to her wishes?

 

So in my opinion, they were all devoted to " dharma " (ninth bhava)and

fulfilled dharma with their " karma " (tenth bhava, food for ninth).

So they never realized that they were devoted to their father or they

were doing injustice to their mother or wife. This remainds me of a

real life incident, when I told the story of alibaba to my child, he

started enacting the story, then he ran into the kitchen and came out

with a big knife, pointing towards me. He was involved in what he was

enacting and did not think, I was his mother, to him I was the Leader

of the thieves.

 

 

Regards,

 

bhagavathi

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunilji,

 

Here is my analysis:

 

From lagna-

 

9H has three planets, LL Sun, 6 and 7L Sat and 2 and 11L mer

Aspected by 5 and 8L Jupiter(vakri)

 

9L mars is in 10H with 3L and 10L venus

 

From Moon-

 

9H has Jupiter(vakri) a natural benefic

9H is aspected by a Sun, saturn and mercury (vakri)

Mercury is 2L and 11L, Saturn LL and 12L, Sun 7L

 

9L venus is well placed in 5H, joins 3L and 10L mars

 

From karaka

 

9H is free of any malefic influence

9L jupiter(vakri) is in 7H, aspected by mer, a debilitated sat and an

exalted sun, which is the karaka

 

The 9H and 9L are subject to minor afflictions only form lagna and

moon. The native could have a strong well placed and influential

father in his life.

 

Sat-sun combination is not good for the relationship with father,in

general some clashes are expected. Further, from Karaka, the 9L is

considerably afflicted.

 

Hence the native could have had some differences with his father,

still the realtionship would have been average to good. The influence

of the 8L on 9th could have given separations from his father.

 

Hoping to hear from you

 

Regards,

 

bhagavathi

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenivas ji,Thank you for the interesting explanations in your inimitable style. It made good reading in the morning. We look forward to more such discourses from you.//Strange - Lord Mighty Ravana, who scored over all three worlds, who

 

" captured & caged " all Nine Navagrahas " { Navagrahas - 9 astrological

planets} including the defeated Utility Fire God Agni, now coming back

to warn him !! But this time, he held back..... that shows the wisdom

of Lord Mighty Ravana.//That was really hilarious. I think our bollywood remains greatly inspired by our mighty mythological characters and stories. I wonder if the tradition of making great stories is being carried over since then...

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ms. Bhagavathi_Hariharan ji,

//the Lord incarnated as Parusharama and Rama, they were in the human form only//

The Lord in his various human avatars, has acted in normal human behavior of that Yuga time. It is only when things went beyond certain point the Human Lord, assumed the Divine Form to impress or show his divinity through actions needed at that situation.

Example-1: Lord Krishna was in basic human elements, till his cousin Prince Sishupal went on hurling abuses, then Lord Krishna assumed his divine form, first to show the reality and then punish..... immediately, the Coronation activity of King Yudhistra went normal there on....

Example-2: Lord Krishna became the Peace Messenger for Pandavas, but Prince Duryodhana was unhappy with his delivery, ordered he be arrested.... then again, Lord Krishna assumed his divine form to Emperor Dhritarastra, to realise the result of war.... when he the God himself is on Pandavas side !!

// If Sitadevi was against his going to the forest, would Ram listened to her? If Dasharath was not obliged to kaikeyi, Would he yielded to her wishes?//

The answer lies in the hierarchy of importance. First parents then his own family. A spoken word as good as a written word in that Yuga. Infact in Indian History, spoken word is still given more importance than written word. It may be news to members, that it was Britishers who entered Indian through Gujarat or Gujaratis support, then tricked Emperor Akbar to sign the contract - from then onwards the written contract became a practise.

It is quite common even now in India, that a message is verbally communicated with a - I - BIG - I - am giving the assurance !! { here the person is putting his entire weight in - I i.e. Big-I}.

//Now another question arises, did he cut the "woman's head", being a "devoted student" or did he cut his "mother's head", being a "devoted son"//

During training, there is NO father or mother.... only Guru prevails. So read it as a Guru's instruction - in the Lord Parashuram case.

It was a brilliant command by Sage Jamadagni !! Why ?? !!!

Reason : In one shot, he tested the discipline of his son-disciple, also removed the karmic blemish on Ms. Renuka { refer my previous mail on the story}.

Evidence -1: Refer to the "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Sri Paramahansa Yogananda ji, there is a case referred - Sri Babaji asks a person seeking divine knowledge from him, else he says, the life has NO value and hence would die, ..... but Sri Babaji refused him,... true to his word the person jumps from mountain cliff..... Sri Babaji sends his disciples to bring his body back, revives him..... and initiates him to his fold....

Reason : In his previous form he cannot be accepted because of karma....now in changed form...he is eligible.....

Evidence-2: Sri Babaji during his discourse, hurts his disciple with fire-wood, leading to skin burns...

Reason: The law of karma has to be satisfied for further progress of the disciple..... so he hurts him..... then cures him with his yogic powers....

Conclusion : People acted as per the dharma.... no father or mother in between. It is our ignorance that cannot demarcate the fine lines in that mythological stories.

So, finally, we agree to each others perspective on this....!!! i..e. You are the leader of Ali Baba gang !! Interesting experience....

With regards,

Sreeram_Srinivas

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreeramji

 

//Conclusion : People acted as per the dharma.... no father or mother

in between. It is our ignorance that cannot demarcate the fine lines in

that mythological stories.

 

So, finally, we agree to each others perspective on this....!!! i..e.

You are the leader of Ali Baba gang !! Interesting experience....//

 

All is well that ends well!! Thank you

 

The best

 

bhagavathi

[Guest guest]

Hare rama krishna

dear bhagavathi ji and gopu ji and other memebrs

 

thanks for trying the chart ,i was trying wheter we can get result frm one chart it self ,not comparing both charts ,as some parents devlps some affinity towards one son or daugher and goes out of the way to help them even ,at times other siblings also being discarded ,so in the absense of correct principles i thought better to see childrens charts to see the realtionships .

if some one has any pointers we can discuss too ,how to arrive at good results as olden days may b 10 or 12 children .

 

also how to see proseperity of kids ( each one seperate ) frm parents chart without going to purticular chart

 

i am requesting every one to just try this chart and i will come out with my answers later

 

regrds sunil nair

 

om shreem mahalaxmai namah

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,

Thanks for the lovely and educative write-up.

Just a querie which you can calrify, I'm sure.

 

'Varga charts of both father and son. Saptamsha is seen for children (son); the Saptamsha Lagna will represent the self of son and its 9H will indicate details regarding the father of Saptamsha lagna (son). Dwadamsha is seen for parents (father); its Lagna will represent the father of the person whose Dwadamsha it is; and its 5H will represent the son of this father. "

Let me assume we are considering A, the father's chart. Then A's Saptamsha Lagna will represent B, the son of A. 9H of Saptamsha chart of A will represent A. OK...got it. What about if A has more than 1 son or more than one kid, including daughters? Then would Saptamsha Lagna of A represent all these children? But that is not possible..I am confused.

Now we take another native, son X. His dwadasamsa Lagna will indicate his father Y. Then which house in D12 chart represents his mother?

Kindly clarify...please...thanks.

blessings

Renu

, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sreeram ji and group,> > Father son is one of the most important of the human relations.> > Father and son have a very unique relationship. A birth of a son is the> happiest event in life of a father. Son, as he grows up and becomes aware of> his surroundings, considers his father as most perfect man, because he sees> everything through the eyes of his father. This relationship goes on> changing as the son grows old and a set pattern is formed. This relationship> could be very cordial and respectful; however it could also deteriorate and> become very inimical. This relationship also depends upon the external> factors which one faces in one's life and the *Samskars *one receives from> his elders. In our civilisation there is very close bondage between father> and son. *Desha Kal and Patra *also has played an important role in> evolution of this relationship.> > Our Indian history is full of dutiful sons. Our favourite hero, Lord Ram> happily went to *Banvasa* to enable his father, *Dshratha* to keep his> promise, which he had made to his beautiful wife *Keykai *in the battlefield> when she had saved his life during the battle. *S**haravan* carried his> parents in a *Palaki* slung on his shoulders for pilgrimage to religious> places.> > There are many examples of devoted fathers who would do anything to see> their son happy. Dhratrashtra, the blind King, the father of *Kauravas,* due> to his unfathomed love for his son, Duryodhan, accepted all the evil demands> of his son, which ultimately resulted in bloody war between the Pandavas and> the Kauravas, the Great Mahabharata.> > There are many examples of cruel and bad fathers. Hirnakashyap, who tortured> his son endlessly as he wanted that his son, *Prahalad* to worship him only> and not the Almighty. Yet another case when *Vajsravas, *the father in fit> of anger offered his son, *Nachiketa *to *Yamraj. *> > Then came a time, when Mughal princes mostly came to power after eliminating> their father Kings, either by killing him or confining him in the jail.> > In the modern world, the relationship of father and son is becoming daunting> challenge the dictum of *Desh, Kal, and Patra.* Due to the effect of Western> Culture and the unitary form of family unit, the father son relationship is> fast changing. A child is left to himself to face the hard facts of life and> evolve his principles and rules of life without the protection of his> parents.> > A child needs the help of father to satisfy of his emotional and physical> needs as he is young and is groping in the unknown world alone without any> help. He is lucky if he finds help from his parents and other family member> such as grand parents. As the time passes the scene changes and the parents> in the old age when they are physically and mentally not so strong, need> help from their children. The protective role in the father and son> relationship changes. In India, the father and son are enter-dependent> emotionally and at times physically on each other.> > To my mind, these are the important points of consideration for this> relationship:> > 1. In a chart*,* Lagna represents the self and 5H represents son and the> *poorva Janam Kramas.* One gets the good or bad children based on> the *Poorva> Janam Karmas. *9H represents father and *Prarabdha Karmas *and gets birth> from a father as indicated by one's *Prarabdha karmas*. Therefore one> becomes father and son only if their past *Karmas *are such which they> are destined to enjoy or suffer in this *Janama.*> 2. So 1-5-9 houses are the important houses to the subject at hand.> Basically, for all Lagna's the Lords of the 1st, 5th and 9th Houses are> natural friends. It is the wish of God! that an individual (the Lagna), his> child (the 5H) and father ( the 9H), have a cordial relationship and live> happily. The 1H, the 5H and the 9H represent the 'Trines' and the trines are> the abode of Goddess Lakshmi, who rules prosperity. They are therefore> considered to be the best Houses in a horoscope. In addition, these Houses> do not go bad very easily.> 3. In Hindu way of life, there are four purushaarths: Dharma,> Artha, Kamaand Moksha. The first Trikona is the Dharma and is> represented by 1> st, 5th and 9th Houses. Here, if 1H means character, 5H his intelligence> and 9H his sense of righteousness. These trines of duty, will show us how> one follows Dharma – the first purpose of human existence.> 4. The principle of '*Bhavat Bhavam*' states that the 5th H is the> 9thfrom the 9> thH and the 9th H is the 5th from the 5th H.> 5. *Karakas*: The karaka for the 1H is Sun, for the 5H – Jupiter and the> 9H – Jupiter and Sun. They are both sattwic planets and are natural friends.> The Karaka for Father is Sun and for Son is Jupiter. In kalapurusha kundli,> the Sun owns the 5H and Jupiter the 9H.> 6. It therefore follows that when you deal with 3 good houses and 2> sattwic planets, who are both - the significators for Father and Son and the> karakas of the 1st, 5th and 9th Houses in a horoscope, you are obviously> handling something of great importance and significance.> 7. *Varga charts* of both father and son. Saptamsha is seen for children> (son); the Saptamsha Lagna will represent the self of son and its 9H will> indicate details regarding the father of Saptamsha lagna (son). Dwadamsha> is seen for parents (father); its Lagna will represent the father of the> person whose Dwadamsha it is; and its 5H will represent the son of this> father.> 8. *Dashas:* The pattern of dashas and transits will further unfold the> facets of this relationship and depict the fluctuations and swings that crop> up from time to time.> > A comparative study of all these elements in two charts can give a good view> of this unique relationship.> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear Renu ji,Saptamsha of father is seen for children (son); now with the changing kaal and patras, we can also extend it to daughters. The Saptamsha Lagna will represent the self of son/daughter and its 9H will indicate details regarding the father of Saptamsha lagna.

Inherently parents are said to have equal feelings for all their children, which is also observed in practice. A good father is good and bad may be equally bad for all children. Apparently, the differences may be superficial and may show up as reaction to the child's behaviour.

To see the subtle differences in father's relations with each child, one has to see the charts of children also. Father has only one saptamsha, but each child has his own chart with karak sun and planets, and a dwadshamsha. A comparison of father's D-1 and D-7 with each child's D-1 and D-12 can give clues for differences. Otherwise, only general disposition of father towards his children could be observed.

Similarly Dwadamsha of son is seen for parents (father); now in new scenario, let us take it as parents. Its lagna will represent the father/mother of the person whose Dwadamsha it is; and its 5H willrepresent the son/daughter of this father.

To see the differences for father and mother, karakas become very important. So a comparison of sun and moon with natal chart, and their placement will assume importance.Then also, in a child's chart for mother a comparison will be made with 4H, not 9H.

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji,

 

I think the relationship between the native and the father is

fine.....though the native has 3 planets debilitated in his D12

Chart. Born in Jupiter Dasa, Jupiter aspects 9H and also 9HL as it

is retrograde, and also Jupiter is in 9HL Mars's nakshastra. Jupiter

is natural 9HL. The father plays a major role in this native's

life.

 

9HL Mars is in 10H conjunct with 10HL Venus. In Navamsa there is an

exchange between these two planets. 9HL Mars is vargottama.

 

If the native is 'Sun' as the lord of Leo lagna and father is 'Mars'

the lord of 9H, they are mutual friends. I have noticed that

normally Leo natives have a healthy relationship with their dads.

Though Sun- Mars is in 2/12 position in Lagna chart, it has improved

in Navamsa chart to 5/9 postion.

 

Sun and Saturn conjunction does not have to create issues between

father and son...at least not always. I know a Leo Lagna native,

with Sun and Saturn in Lagna having an excellent rapport between

them. Anyway I am not sure about this particular case.....waiting

for Sunil ji's reply

 

blessings

 

Renu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Hare rama krishna

>

> dear grp members

>

>

>

> here a data analyse the relation with parents .

>

> Male

>

> Natal Chart

>

> May 1, 1970

> Time: 15:04:00

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 79 E 57' 00 " , 23 N 10' 00 "

> Jabalpur, India

regrds sunil nair

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah .

>

>

> , " sreeram srinivas "

> <sreeram64@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear members,

> >

> > Indian Society has been a unique one and much appreciated for its

> family

> > bindings and still a subject of deep studies elsewhere. Father

> > invests in children, in return, children take care of parents in

old

> > age. Insurance, old age homes...etc.. are all products of western

> > civilization.

> >

> > The thread started by Ms. Neelamji on " Friendly Charts " ..... is

an

> > extension of the above. Relationships exist every where,

including

> > Husband/Wife. We all have discussed first & second marriages,

did few

> > blind charts earlier.

> >

> > Now in changing society and loose morals, influence of external

> > environment more, social fabric of society is under threat of

> > breaking..... let us explore some charts of Father-Son, {for in

India

> > son's are expected to take care of parents as per norms} and see

the

> > combinations.

> >

> > Would request members to post birth data of : Father-Son, where

the

> > relationship has either soured or still sweet...etc..

> >

> > With regards,

> >

> > Sreeram_Srinivas

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,

 

Thanks so much...now it is clear:)

 

blessings

 

Renu

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Renu ji,

>

> Saptamsha of father is seen for children (son); now with the

changing kaal

> and patras, we can also extend it to daughters. The Saptamsha

Lagna will

> represent the self of son/daughter and its 9H will indicate details

> regarding the father of Saptamsha lagna.

>

> Inherently parents are said to have equal feelings for all their

children,

> which is also observed in practice. A good father is good and bad

may be

> equally bad for all children. Apparently, the differences may be

superficial

> and may show up as reaction to the child's behaviour.

>

> To see the subtle differences in father's relations with each

child, one has

> to see the charts of children also. Father has only one saptamsha,

but each

> child has his own chart with karak sun and planets, and a

dwadshamsha. A

> comparison of father's D-1 and D-7 with each child's D-1 and D-12

can give

> clues for differences. Otherwise, only general disposition of

father towards

> his children could be observed.

>

> Similarly Dwadamsha of son is seen for parents (father); now in new

> scenario, let us take it as parents. Its lagna will represent the

> father/mother of the person whose Dwadamsha it is; and its 5H will

> represent the son/daughter of this father.

>

> To see the differences for father and mother, karakas become very

important.

> So a comparison of sun and moon with natal chart, and their

placement will

> assume importance.

> Then also, in a child's chart for mother a comparison will be made

with 4H,

> not 9H.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>