Some thoughts on ancient Siva- Naga -Arya -Dravida Civilizations

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh-ji, Neelam-ji and others,

 

Please note that Naga of NAGALAND is quite distinct.

 

They are again a Sino-Burmese group who entered Assam

in 12-13th Century. As they used to pierece their Ears, they

were known as Naka (pierced ears) in local language. That got converted

to Naga later on. I don't think it has got anything to do with

Naked per se.

 

The Naga myth is quite different and has very less bearing

with our existing myths. If my memory is correct, the group

claims that there ancestors originated from caves.

 

Whether it has got anything to do with a chinese myth

that some group of people were interned in caves for

generations as a punishment..is not clear.

 

regards

 

chakraborty

 

 

 

 

Sreenadh [sreesog]

Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:50 PM

 

Re: Some thoughts on ancient Siva-Naga

-Arya -Dravida Civilizations

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

Thanks for the informative mail and pdf.

//> He says that during the Aryan invasion, the Native Nagas were pushed

towards

> the North-East. Their glorious rule of 2500 years ended.//

This I don't agree and seems to be totally wrong. Since -

1) The Nagas we are speaking about is NOT the so called Nagas of Nagaland

or the north eastern so called Naga tribe, but about the ancient indigenous

people of India. The term as ascribed to north eastern people is of recent

origin. The word Naga as used in Assam means 'Naked'. They the people of

planes applied this term to refer to many the tribes of north eastern hills

as a whole. The British people picked up this term as used by Assam ppl and

started using it to refer to the many tribes of north eastern hills. The

point to know from a historical perspective is - the North Eastern people

NEVER used to refer to themselves as Nagas in the ancient past but instead

used several other words to refer to themselves. So understand clearly that

the Naga and Naga cult we are speaking about in no way refer to or connected

to the tribes of the north eastern state Nagaland (erroniously named so).

We are speaking about a great tradition, an ancient culture, that built

numerous ancient cities such as Takshasila (in Pakistan), Karkotaka city (in

Kashmir), Padmavati (near Gwalior), Mahishmati, Bhogavati and so on. We are

speaking about a great culture that contributed legendary scholars like

Kapila Muni, Panini, Patanjali, Nagarguna and so on. We are speaking about a

great tradition in which the Kings of Kashmir, Vakataka kings, Pallavas,

Bhoja Raja etc was born or connected to. Please note this whole point and

difference clearly.

2) Their glories never ended and still continues! All the religions that

came to india got submerged in to the culture and tradition initiated or

caused by this great Naga tradition. The Naga tradition is at the

foundations of Indian Tantric tradition - assimilating everything into it.

It is the cult and culture of the people of India, the common mass. Even

though with ebb and flows, it survived till date and will continue to d0 so!

Of course it is true that these days may not be its golden days, now they

may not be the only cult, or the cult with an upper hand - but that is not

much important.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and group,

>

> Thank you Sreenadh ji for the interesting and though-provoking write up.

> Naga civilization seems to have its roots deeper than we can think of. The

> iconography all over India is a fair proof of that.

>

> There is a very interesting and indepth write up " Nagas in the Cultural

> Decorations of Early West Orissan temples by Sasanka Sekhar Panda. The

well

> presented article also throws light on the spread of Naga civilization

from

> the ancient times. All interested members must read this article. And if

> possible store a copy. It can be accessed online at

> http://orissagov.nic.in/e-magazine/Journal/jounalvol1/pdf/orhj-4.pdf

>

> There is another bit of historical info in modern searchlight that I'd

like

> to share. (I have not read the original research paper)

>

> A Prominent historian and scholar Dr Naval Viyogi, worked on a research

> project entitled 'History of the Indigenous People of India', and was also

> given Dr Ambedkar International Literary Award, 2002, for his book 'Nagas

-

> the Ancient Rules of India, their Origin and History' gives a good account

> in his works.

>

> //Dr Viyogi feels that Modern historians are distorting history and

writing

> history according to Brahmanical thoughts. No one has bothered to pay

> attention to the marvellous history of native people. He says that the

> native people, the Nagas, were great producers of varied products like

> pottery, weaving, tools and ornaments. Each individual was an adept

artisan.

> The Aryans who came later were non-productive. He says the distorted

history

> is a product of the Aryans who were invaders and 'barbarians in general'.

He

> has been able to prove that native naga people were highly civilised. They

> had highly developed social, religious, economic and political systems.

They

> were warriors and ideal citizens. They founded the Indus Valley

> Civilisation, one of the oldest civilisations.

>

> He says that during the Aryan invasion, the Native Nagas were pushed

towards

> the North-East. Their glorious rule of 2500 years ended. He also says that

> with Aryans the Indians became non-productive. The people developed an

> attitude of no respect for work. No dignity of labour. The invaders that

> came later just exploited us.//

>

> Hope you'll find this useful.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji, //Please note that Naga of NAGALAND is quite distinct.They are again a Sino-Burmese group who entered Assamin 12-13th Century. As they used to pierce their Ears, theywere known as Naka (pierced ears) in local language. That got convertedto Naga later on. I don't think it has got anything to do withNaked per se.The Naga (of Nagaland) myth is quite different and has very less bearingwith our existing myths. If my memory is correct, the groupclaims that there ancestors originated from caves.// Thanks for the info and clarification. PC Kashyap in his book "Surviving Harappan civilization" states that in Assamese language "Naga" means "Naked". It was that statement, I was quoting. Naka = pierced ears, and the wrong pronunciation of Naka as Naga later sounds better and possible. True, most of the tribes in Nagaland have "Pierced ears" that too usually with large ornaments. Thanks for the info.//> Whether it has got anything to do with a chinese myth> that some group of people were interned in caves for> generations as a punishment..is not clear.// Yes, the north eastern people are more connected to Burmese or Chinese culture than with Indian; There myths too differ and more tribal in nature. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji, Neelam-ji and others,> > Please note that Naga of NAGALAND is quite distinct.> > They are again a Sino-Burmese group who entered Assam> in 12-13th Century. As they used to pierece their Ears, they> were known as Naka (pierced ears) in local language. That got converted> to Naga later on. I don't think it has got anything to do with> Naked per se.> > The Naga myth is quite different and has very less bearing> with our existing myths. If my memory is correct, the group> claims that there ancestors originated from caves.> > Whether it has got anything to do with a chinese myth> that some group of people were interned in caves for> generations as a punishment..is not clear.> > regards> > chakraborty> > > > > Sreenadh [sreesog]> Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:50 PM> > Re: Some thoughts on ancient Siva-Naga> -Arya -Dravida Civilizations> > > > Dear Neelam ji,> Thanks for the informative mail and pdf.> //> He says that during the Aryan invasion, the Native Nagas were pushed> towards> > the North-East. Their glorious rule of 2500 years ended.//> This I don't agree and seems to be totally wrong. Since -> 1) The Nagas we are speaking about is NOT the so called Nagas of Nagaland> or the north eastern so called Naga tribe, but about the ancient indigenous> people of India. The term as ascribed to north eastern people is of recent> origin. The word Naga as used in Assam means 'Naked'. They the people of> planes applied this term to refer to many the tribes of north eastern hills> as a whole. The British people picked up this term as used by Assam ppl and> started using it to refer to the many tribes of north eastern hills. The> point to know from a historical perspective is - the North Eastern people> NEVER used to refer to themselves as Nagas in the ancient past but instead> used several other words to refer to themselves. So understand clearly that> the Naga and Naga cult we are speaking about in no way refer to or connected> to the tribes of the north eastern state Nagaland (erroniously named so).> We are speaking about a great tradition, an ancient culture, that built> numerous ancient cities such as Takshasila (in Pakistan), Karkotaka city (in> Kashmir), Padmavati (near Gwalior), Mahishmati, Bhogavati and so on. We are> speaking about a great culture that contributed legendary scholars like> Kapila Muni, Panini, Patanjali, Nagarguna and so on. We are speaking about a> great tradition in which the Kings of Kashmir, Vakataka kings, Pallavas,> Bhoja Raja etc was born or connected to. Please note this whole point and> difference clearly.> 2) Their glories never ended and still continues! All the religions that> came to india got submerged in to the culture and tradition initiated or> caused by this great Naga tradition. The Naga tradition is at the> foundations of Indian Tantric tradition - assimilating everything into it.> It is the cult and culture of the people of India, the common mass. Even> though with ebb and flows, it survived till date and will continue to d0 so!> Of course it is true that these days may not be its golden days, now they> may not be the only cult, or the cult with an upper hand - but that is not> much important.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "neelam gupta"> neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh ji and group,> >> > Thank you Sreenadh ji for the interesting and though-provoking write up.> > Naga civilization seems to have its roots deeper than we can think of. The> > iconography all over India is a fair proof of that.> >> > There is a very interesting and indepth write up "Nagas in the Cultural> > Decorations of Early West Orissan temples by Sasanka Sekhar Panda. The> well> > presented article also throws light on the spread of Naga civilization> from> > the ancient times. All interested members must read this article. And if> > possible store a copy. It can be accessed online at> > http://orissagov.nic.in/e-magazine/Journal/jounalvol1/pdf/orhj-4.pdf> >> > There is another bit of historical info in modern searchlight that I'd> like> > to share. (I have not read the original research paper)> >> > A Prominent historian and scholar Dr Naval Viyogi, worked on a research> > project entitled 'History of the Indigenous People of India', and was also> > given Dr Ambedkar International Literary Award, 2002, for his book 'Nagas> -> > the Ancient Rules of India, their Origin and History' gives a good account> > in his works.> >> > //Dr Viyogi feels that Modern historians are distorting history and> writing> > history according to Brahmanical thoughts. No one has bothered to pay> > attention to the marvellous history of native people. He says that the> > native people, the Nagas, were great producers of varied products like> > pottery, weaving, tools and ornaments. Each individual was an adept> artisan.> > The Aryans who came later were non-productive. He says the distorted> history> > is a product of the Aryans who were invaders and 'barbarians in general'.> He> > has been able to prove that native naga people were highly civilised. They> > had highly developed social, religious, economic and political systems.> They> > were warriors and ideal citizens. They founded the Indus Valley> > Civilisation, one of the oldest civilisations.> >> > He says that during the Aryan invasion, the Native Nagas were pushed> towards> > the North-East. Their glorious rule of 2500 years ended. He also says that> > with Aryans the Indians became non-productive. The people developed an> > attitude of no respect for work. No dignity of labour. The invaders that> > came later just exploited us.//> >> > Hope you'll find this useful.> >> > Regards> > Neelam> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh-ji,

 

I agree to most of your points and would like to stop here.

However, I don't agree to your last comment. I rather see

the myths quite relevant to Indian myths. (Only question

is how we define 'Indian')

 

Regards

 

chakraborty

 

 

 

 

Sreenadh [sreesog]

Friday, October 03, 2008 11:08 AM

 

Re: Some thoughts on ancient Siva- Naga

-Arya -Dravida Civilizations

 

 

 

 

Dear Chakraborty ji,

//Please note that Naga of NAGALAND is quite distinct.

 

They are again a Sino-Burmese group who entered Assam

in 12-13th Century. As they used to pierce their Ears, they

were known as Naka (pierced ears) in local language. That got converted

to Naga later on. I don't think it has got anything to do with

Naked per se.

 

The Naga (of Nagaland) myth is quite different and has very less bearing

with our existing myths. If my memory is correct, the group

claims that there ancestors originated from caves.//

Thanks for the info and clarification. PC Kashyap in his book " Surviving

Harappan civilization " states that in Assamese language " Naga " means

" Naked " . It was that statement, I was quoting. Naka = pierced ears, and the

wrong pronunciation of Naka as Naga later sounds better and possible. True,

most of the tribes in Nagaland have " Pierced ears " that too usually with

large ornaments.

Thanks for the info.

//> Whether it has got anything to do with a chinese myth

> that some group of people were interned in caves for

> generations as a punishment..is not clear.//

Yes, the north eastern people are more connected to Burmese or Chinese

culture than with Indian; There myths too differ and more tribal in nature.

 

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh-ji, Neelam-ji and others,

>

> Please note that Naga of NAGALAND is quite distinct.

>

> They are again a Sino-Burmese group who entered Assam

> in 12-13th Century. As they used to pierece their Ears, they

> were known as Naka (pierced ears) in local language. That got converted

> to Naga later on. I don't think it has got anything to do with

> Naked per se.

>

> The Naga myth is quite different and has very less bearing

> with our existing myths. If my memory is correct, the group

> claims that there ancestors originated from caves.

>

> Whether it has got anything to do with a chinese myth

> that some group of people were interned in caves for

> generations as a punishment..is not clear.

>

> regards

>

> chakraborty.