VJ - To Everyone Interested in Genuine Discussion

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Dear Vinay ij, Uh! That was a very long post! I will go though it later. Just re-posting with a new subject line it for my own reference. :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "vinayjhaa16" <vinayjhaa16 wrote:>> To Everyone Interested in Genuine Discussion about Ancient Indian> Astrology !> > Internet is free for persons who rejoice in abusing others without> feeling the need to argue logically before rushing to any conclusion.> I've seen elsewhere that Mr Chandra Hari is not incapable of arguing> logically, but he is completely illogical and abusive this time,> because he is incapable of imagining that anything in the world can> exist beyond what he already knows. I am not exaggerating this trait> in Mr Chandra Hari : he has some misconceptions about 'scientific> astrology', and he is too intolerant to hear anything against his> preconceived notions. I am adding comments of PVR Narasimha Rao jee> (maker of jhora) and Sanjay Rath jee about Mr Chandra Hari at the> bottom of this post. I hope my comments will be reviewed in good> spirit, because I want a real discussion on some important issues, and> do not want to waste my time, as well as of others, in baseless> allegations and abuses as Mr Chandra Hari is resorting to.> > Mr Chandra Hari has passed a verdict on me before asking for proofs or> arguing with me, and is calling me names. It is his "scientific> method". Another member Neelam jee has used similar words about me,> which I do not want to answer due to intellectual "competence" of that> mailer in these matters (calling me a mouse before the "warrior" cat> Chandra Hari) . Chandra Hari's comments on me are fit for a libel> suit which I will never pray for : "Such people needs treatment. This> is the indication of a disease (mental disease, not physical, ie, a> lunatic)." His message to me was : "I think you are another fraud> into the business of astrology and seeking a market for your product."> In another post he labelled me, without naming, as a "seller". Have> I ever asked for any price for my softwares or for my consultations in> my life? My only fault is that I adhere to the order of scriptures,> and that is why some commercially minded astrologers do not tolerate> my existence upon this planet. Mr Chandra Hari could have pointed at> my faults, if any. He compares me with A_Satyam computers, without> specifying what I have robbed others of. It is sheer dishonesty to> level false charges of selling my products or robbing others. > > Everyone who knows me or my software knows that I have never sold any> software or asked for any fees for consultations in my life. My> postings and websites declare my software to be a freeware, giving> everyone all rights to copy and distribute it freely. Hence, the false> charge of fraudulence Mr Chandra Hari is levelling against me is a> deliberate invention, not without a purpose. Even a murderer gets a> chance to defend himself/herself. But Mr Chandra Hari is too much in a> haste to pass a verdict against me. I can prove that the reason of his> haste and bias in rushing to conclusions about me without a debate is> his incompetence in astrology as well as in mathematics. He claims :> " I have been in the field of Jyotihsastra during the last 22 years ".> I will not like to point out that he wasted his 22 years in vain.> Persons like Mr Chandra Hari are deliberately misleading everyone here> by posing as an expert of astrology (or science ?). > > I can show proofs of his incompetence if he prefers a sane discussion> instead of abusing me insanely, although I fear he will never argue> like a gentleman, because he said 90% of members in this group are> monkeys (because the remaining 10% are like him). Those who differ> with him are animals. It is not possible to engage such a person in> any meaningful dialogue ; either you must support all his views> blindly, or you are a monkey, a fraud, a lunatic, etc.> > He warns others against me : "Wherefrom you have suddenly descended> must be a subject of inquiry. Group must take care to see the man> identified. This guy may be a proxy taking the group for a ride with> false claims."> > My website contains references to the university which accepted me as> an authority after a high court order to probe into the charges of> incompetence levelled against by me against the former HOD of Jyotisha> of that university (who was subsequently removed). My website also> contains references to some topmost institutions of the world where my> scientific works have been verified views ( cf.> http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Vinay+Jha ). He challenges the> credibility of all these reputed institutions and universities> supporting my views , and feels himself to be the sole Führer. I do> not need certificates from unbalanced persons like Mr Chandra Hari who> are incapable of normal human behaviour and are calling others> "monkeys" & c, just because some members of this forum have faith in> religious practices which Mr Hari thinks to be unscientific ("if the> Siva-Saktipithams have any potence beyond public toilets..." : this> comment of Mr Hari is again fit for a legal action ; he is abusing> Siva-Saktipithams in a foul language). > > He brushes all my works in a single sentence : "All that you talk> don't have an iota of truth." He does not want a discussion, and> passes verdicts like a dictator ruling over his fiefdom of Astrology.> Who gave him this right ? Does any recognized university accepts him> as an astrologer or a scientist ? Who is this Chandra Hari, as far as> acedamic records go ??? I searched internet for this fellow, and> found only one site, which referred to this persons as a "biased" man> who wants to impose his own ayanamsha upon others in an "aggressive"> manner (cf. the comments below by PVR and Pt Sanjay Rath).> > He says :"Science has a method. When someone speaks of Varahamihiar as> a poor mathematician - please exercise your wisdom to ask the> credentials of the guy."> > Mr Hari knows this forum is not being regulated by any legal> machinery, and is therefore free to say whatever he likes. Whether> Varahamihiar as a poor or a sound mathematician cannot be proven> unless we undertake an impartial enquiry, without taking resort to> personal attacks and abuses. Mr Chandra Hari asks about me :"(He is)> Authority in what?" I cannot prove my truthfulness to those who are> dishonest (cf. his false charges of selling software, fraud, etc). If> some members of this group are really desirous of seeking a real and> scholarly discussion which will certainly be good for us all, they> must compel Mr Chandra Hari to stop behaving like a führer and if Mr> Chandra Hari has any respect for truth as well as for himself, please> ask him to enter into a Shhaastraartha here and now. In my post I had> admired Varaha Mihira on many counts, but said that his mathematics> was poor. Even Rishi Parashara or anyone else, excepting Varaha> Mihira, never wrote on all skandhas of Jyotisha, although there might> have been many rishis knowing all three skandhas. Varaha Mihira tried> his hand in all skandhas. He was a sincere person, but could not> understand the puzzles of Tantra in which Suryasiddhantic tables were> prepared and are still being preserved and used. Mr Hari and many> others at this forum do not understand the significance of Tantra> here, and confuse the Tantra of Jyotisha with tantras of philosophy.> There are mant texts of philosophical tantras as well which are> indespensable in Jyotisha. Mr Hari's inability to understand the basis> of Kaliyuga's horoscope did not induce him to ask for the rationale,> because he is beyond rationality. But those members of this group who> may be misled by this biased person to think otherwise are requested> to see> http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/World+Economy+%3A+Apr+2009-Mar+2010,> where same method has been used the Head of Dept of Jyotisha of KSD> Sanskrit University to make an astrological economic forecast for> 2009-20. I may condone Mr Hari for abusing me, but this HOD may not> forgive if he is abused in an insane language. There are codes of> conduct which ought to be observed in a civil society. > > I wanted to argue against western methods being applied to Indian> astrology, not against Indian scholars. But let the inevitable happen.> There are jyotishis in India who worship Varaha Mihira, and many of> them regard Varaha Mihira as their intellectual ancestor. Some of them> are by best friends. They may all gang up against me now, that is what> Mr Chandra Hari wants. He is raising an emotional appeal to raise the> sentiments against a "fraudulent" person who calls Varaha Mihira poor> in mathematics. The option of discussing the causes behind my opinions> did not occur to Mr Chandra Hari, because he has no interest in the> real issue : exploration of all actual mathematical methods used by> ancient and modern scholars, to which I devoted my entire life. I> tested all modern and ancient methods of Ganita Jyotisha in order to> find out the best method suited to the needs of predictive astrology> mainly based upon BPHS (Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra) and related> texts of Phalita. For this lifelong research, Mr Chandra Hari declares> me a fraud without any discussion ! Aversion of free and fair> discussion is his brand of "scientific method" ; Mr PVR Narasimha Rao> and Pt Sanjay Rath have also noted this bias and aggressiveness in Mr> Hari.> > Let Mr Chandra Hari prove his point. Too many points have been raised> at once, and I think the best point to start with is Varah Mihir's> description of Surya Siddhanta in Panchsiddhantika, because under this> topic many other points can be discussed at once. Unfortunately, need> of moderation will arise, to check members from levelling abuses> against each other.> > Mr Chandra Hari asks about my scientific papers. I can send scanned> copies of acceptance letters of my paper and verification reports of> my work by world's leading scientific institutions to all those> persons here who want to view the proofs (through email), but not to> Chandra Hari because he has not qualified himself to be a gentleman.> The Mr Chandra Hari is repelled by my credentials at my website which> reads " A lifelong brahmach & #257;ri ( recluse, monk), software developer,> astrologer, weather scientist, etc". He could not believe a person> could be a scientist and an a recluse brahmach & #257;ri at the same time,> and decided to "finish" me literally, without any trial. He does not> know the power of real brahmach & #257;rya. It he is a real warrior, as he> declares himself to be, he must prove it : please invite this fellow> into a shaastrartha about the mathematics of Varaha Mihira in Panch> Siddhantika. He is free to abuse me, I do not care, but please ask him> to argue like a human being and not like a monkey. If he relapses into> insane talks, I will refuse to respond.> > Mr Chandra Hari views my statements as an "attempt to eulogize the so> called Vedic past that did not exist as indigenous before 1500 BC". He> puts me in the category of "the author of fraudulent Vedic> Mathematics, Sankaracharya Bharati Krishna". To cap it all, he abuses> Shiva and Shakti, as cited above. One who abuses not only a> Shankaracharya, but also Shiva and Shakti, cannot spare a monk, the> softest of all targets.> > Following remarks by PVR and Pt Rath show that Mr Chandra Hari is> highly eccentric : he uses " Yogic breathing and what not" for "> proving his ayanamsa", and prides himself of following the "scientific> method" , accepting Eurocentric vision of Indian history ! Mr Chandra> Hari's aggressiveness is related to some deeper malady prevalent in> Indian society, which has divided even scholars into opposite camps> irrationally.> > My last comment is : if Mr Hari is really desirous of any meaningful> dialogue, he must not be aggressive and abusive. The secrets of> Jyotisha cannot be taught to those who abuse you, it is a sin to> impart Jyotisha to such persons. I had hoped members of this forum> will ask me to elaborate the reasons behind Kali-kundali & c. Instead,> I am receiving abuses.> > -VJ> - - - - > Following is the remark of PVR Narasimha Rao about Chandra Hari (> cf.> http://jyotish-blog.blogspot.com/2005/11/brief-account-of-chandra-hari-ayanamsa.html)> : > > "Chandra Hari talks of Yogic breathing and what not. All that is fine,> but it does not prove his ayanamsa. For example, zodiac has 21,600> minutes irrespective of where the zodiac starts. Thus, a long> exposition on the significance of 21,600, breahting and Sun does not> prove any ayanamsa..... Though he gives long-winding Yogic/Tantric> discourses, a discering reader will find all of them irrelevant, as> far as proving his ayanamsa is concerned.> > ('Mooladhara chakram of Kala Purusha is in Moola nakshatram....') ..in> my view, this crucial axiom of Chandra Hari does not stand a> reasonable scrutiny.> > I am afraid Chandra Hari is biased ...... Even the explanations of> events given in his examples such as Tagore are totally unconvincing.> ... there are several strong followers of Chandra Hari ayanamsa on> this list. They are quite aggressive in dismissing other people and> sometimes they even ridicule the views of other schools in various> matters..... We cannot change them. ... I will give my final judgment> after perusing all the material kindly sent to me by Chandra Hari and> his followers. My judgment is that one is better off ignoring Chandra> Hari ayanamsa. The correct ayanamsa is between Lahiri ayanamsa and> Krishnamoorthy ayanamsa. In my judgment, Chandra Hari ayanamsa is way off.> > Following is the remark of Sanjay Rath about PVR Narasimha Rao's> comments on Chandra Hari: "Please peruse this (above) mail of Ch. PVR> Narasimha Rao. I fully endorse this view point."> ======= ======= ======= ======= ======= =======>