Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

January 11, 2009

Friends,The main issue is : Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

Now it is high time all

mess created by "unnecessary personal words match" , as one

member put, it should be put to a final end, which is wasting a great deal of

my time as well as of others.

What is being ignored

by some members here is the fact it it is not a case of "personal words match" (1) because

I have consistently refrained from any personal attacks on the abuser, (2)

because my sole aim was to bring to light some neglected aspects of Indian

astrology, and (3) because neither me nor Mr Chandra Hari has any personal loss

or gain from this whole drama. Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person and he

had no previous personal animosity against me, because he did not even

know me personally. The matter is far from being "personal", although

Mr Chandra Hari's "special style" of dealing with issues create an

impression of the matter being personal.

The problem arose

from his reluctance to allow any discussion on issues which does

not suit his personal views. Unfortunately, some members are not understanding

the impotance of those issues which gave rise to present controversy and define

this issue as "unnecessary personal" feud or having " no bearing to the pesent day

applications". Mr Chandra Hari also wants that I should not be allowed to

raise the issues I am raising. Some members have opposed his violent way of reacting,

but two members failed to see the importance of issues I want to get discussed,

and are therefore unconsciously siding with Mr Chandra Hari. If the issues I

regard paramount in astrology are not worth discussion and are

merely my "personal" matters, then there is no point in my continuance

in this forum .

The issue is which is

the mathematical theory most suitable for the purpose of predictive astrology,

physical astronomy or Suryasiddhanta. Those who eulogise Varaha Mihira and call

me his opponent forget that Varaha Mihira checked all theories and passed his

verdict in the favour of Suryasiddhanta. It is an important issue which must

not be censored. Only then many other important issues can be properly

discussed, such as tantric chakras & c.

One member clearly

told me that "members" of this forum do not know me and they know Mr

Chandra Hari as a well known scholar, and regarded Mr Chandra Hari to be the

competent authority to judge my views. Mr Chandra Hari passed his verdict

without discussing anything, and demanded my expulsion and even

"beheading", but later started discussing some points, but in a

biased and abusive manner, always calling me a "fraud". If I am

declared to be fraud my a senior member of this forum who is respected by some

other members who do not know me, the issues I am raising also become fraudulent

claims which ought to be excluded from agenda. The issues I deem

important are felt to be non-issues by those who doubt my credentials. Unless

they recognize me as a responsible person, they will not be seriously

interested in discussing the issues and views pertinent to crucial problems of

Indian astrology. It is, therefore, necessary to bring to light some facts

related to my credibility, without which I cannot discuss any issue here and

will be a target of abuses and ridicule by a handful of persons who are

ignorant of the importance of issues I raised. Hence, before discussing issues,

my credibility must be checked, which is under consistent and deliberate attack

here.

I did not want to

talk of modern science among astrologers. More, boasting of achievements is

against my nature, unless it is necessary to show something important for the

good of everyoneNow I am bound to show some concrete evidence about my

truthfulness. All interested members are requested to read the following webpage,

which will clear all doubts about me and about the issues I have raised :

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+accepted+by+CAOS%2C+IISc

Please do not form

any opinion in a hurry, the matter is serious, and read the whole page in this

link. You may also read another page, which presents evidences about

Suryasiddhantic method being forced upon a university through legal means,

which compelled the VC to organize conferences for examining my points :

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Credentials

If someone doubts

that I am a fraud to have fabricated these evidences, he may contact the

authorities whose addresses are clearly given and all well known. The

conclusions are :

(1) Wold's topmost

institutions of modern science (NASA, Royal Society, IISc...) recognized my works in weather forecasting and

IISc accepted my new approach (new theory) of FORECASTING , although I could

not elaborate all features of my theory in a single paper (I have provided the

link to this paper too , which contains the summary of my "new" theory and gives concrete evidences in favour

of some new discoveries by me, which were duly recognized by referees.

(2) Topmost

astrologers and heads of ALL Sanskrit universities of India unanimously decided, after 2 days

of debates, that Suryasiddhanta must be the basis of all panchangas of India, and recognized the reliability of

my free software.

(3) Mr Chandra Hari

claims to be a scientist, but in spite of my requests could not contact the

heads of those scientific establishments about my supposedly fraudulent claims,

and kept on abusing me calling me a "fraud" due to his jealousy. The

fact is "scholars" like Mr Chandra Hari would not get an entry into these

high grade scientific establishments which appreciated my works. Even IISc is

not free for all, NASA and Royal Society are distant dreams for

"scientists" like Mr Chandra Hari. Will Mr Chandra Hari labels all

institutions recognizing me as fraudulent , as he did recently !!!

(4) Now, after seeing

proofs of my soundness, Mr Chandra Hari and some of his associates may start

shouting that I am wasting the time of an astrological forum by pointing to

scientific topics. But it was Mr Chandra Hari who started claiming to be a

"scientist" and on that count ordered a fatwa to expel and behead me.

Mr Chandra Hari knows nothing about either science or astrology, all his

knowledge is superficial and bookish, based on a fallacious assumption that

whatever Westerners wrote about India is irrefutable and brahma-vaakya.

I repeat that Mr

Chandra Hari is a well educated person ; he knows how to cite from texts (and

how to neglect those portions of same texts which does not suit one's biases,

many "intellectuals" do so now-a-days). I must add that modern education

imparts mere bookish knowledge and not insight. Insight cannot be taught,

because it comes from lifelong devotion to any good cause. I did not raise any

family and did not join any career in spite of brilliant academic records in

both science and literature, just because I wanted all my time to be devoted to

a single cause : pursuit of knowledge of those those things which have lasting

value in this transient world. The very fact that I did not join any paid service

anywhere make me a fraud in the eyes of those who value worldly recognition

more than they value truth. Hence, I have disclosed some of my worldly

credentials here, for which beg apology from God, because a monk must never

boast of worldly achievements, unless it is necessitated by some higher cause.

Mr Chandra Hari has

passed his verdict on me : I am a fraud. Some other members have also said that

I am raising bogus issues. If the majority of members here regard me as a fraud

raising useless matters, my present mail may be treated as my last mail to this

forum and the moderator may be requested to cancel my membership. Let me see how a "majority" kills Truth once again, without a fair discussion. It has happened so many times. I do not care for false peoples.

Sincerely,

--Vinay Jha

===========

=========== =========== ===========

P.S. :

In my own horoscope,

Jupiter is in its moolatrikona with lagnesh Venus, and dashamesh Moon is in the

house of Dharma making a very strong gajakesari yoga in the service of Dharma

and Paraakrama. Moreover, this Jupiter is also lord of 6th house making

opponents of Truth always bite dust but not without abusing me falsely, with

many other good combinations, such as dharmesh mercury in 5th house and Saturn

being highly auspicious by dint of being lord of 4th and 5th houses and having

a yuti relation with Jupiter and Venus, and Rahu Ketu being in their own houses.

As a result, I cannot be defeated in any free and fair sahaastraartha by

bookish scholars in my fields of expertize, they can only silence me by

shoutings of an imaginary "majority" of a handful of persons who do

not even form a real majority, or "behead" me as Mr Chandra Hari has

incited you twice, or poison me as Socrates was done with, but remember,

friends, the killers of Socrates and their views died out and people even

forgot their names, but Socrates is still alive in me and in all of you, although

many members here may not see the inner flame within every human heart lit by

the deliberate self sacrifice of Socrates. This inner flame is fueled by a

rejection of all dogmatism, bias, incivility, etc etc, which all you already

know, but this very flame is dimmed by censorship of those ideas which a person

does not know or does not want to know. A person can be killed, but ideas are

invincivle and immortal. I live by idealism, subsisting on one meal a day for

11 years and donating all my savings to schools and sadhus, but worldly people

live by materialism, which compels them to visualize the grahas of jyotisha as

material planets of physical sciences. I have countless proofs in my favour,

but here I do not find a conducive environment to discuss even a single point

in detail. I started a topic on tantric astrology which was diverted to wine

and sex, and I was therefore compelled to leave that discussion, and now I am

told that I am not able to discuss anything about tantic chakras & c.

(Only the real bhaktas can defeat me but such

a situation can never arise, because I surrender before all real bhaktas

without arguing ; arguments are needed among the worldly folks because they do

not have any alternative.)

-VJ

==================================================================

January 11, 2009

Dear vinay jee,

I have downloaded already your software " Kundlee " but it will take

time to test.Are you talking only for this software or some thing else

new theories about Astrology?

I have given the example of Sh.Ravishankarjee for easy discussion and

properly understanding of you views between the forum,please don't

express arrogantly about Pt.Ravishankar jee he is also master of his

subject,we have to talk respectfully about other master.

I am interested to get some knowledge only,no personal matter about

any one.If you are Bhramchari it is your personal choice that is not

matter at least for me,i am interested about your experiences and

knowledge of Astrology only which you desire to share with all

members.I respect yours devotion and efforts about the Indian Astrology.

I respect every individual.

Thanks,

M.S.Bohra

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Bohra jee

> [ answer to his message at :

> /message/17368 ]

>

> I tested all major ancient and modern theories of computing (Ganita)

> planetary positions, lagna, etc, on the criterion of accuracy of

> predictive part of astrology (Phalita), while others do not even care

> to bother about this problem and blindly assume that modern scientific

> astronomy is perfectly suited for astrology. Such persons call this

> blind faith on science as their " scientific attitude " , forgetting the

> fact that modern science does not recognize the validity of astrology,

> because no property of matter has ever been attested to be associated

> with astrological effects. Material properties are proportianal to the

> quantity of matter, but astrological planets do not exhibit

> astrological effects in proportion to their mass or other known

> properties. Hence we must dive into the Unknown !

> Over 99% astrologers have no concern with such problems, they want

> readymade solutions. I give them such a freeware which I claim will

> give accurate astrological results. Instead of testing this software,

> a pseudo-scientist came and issued Fatwas against me, in spite of the

> fact that I had provided names of world's topmost scientific

> institutions like NASA and IISc (CAOS) where my scientific works have

> already been verified. Why these institutions were not asked about my

> credentials before abusing me ?

>

> The proof of my assertions is the accuracy of my software, which needs

> practical astrologers who can test my software. But Mr Chandra Hari

> could not test my software due to his intense hatred for

> Suryasiddhanta and for all such persons who become brahmachaaris.

> Unless my software is tested, I cannot prove myself to be true. The

> only alternative was my credentials, which I presented at my website.

> Instead of asking those institutions about me, I was abused as a

> fraud, because persons like Mr Chandra Hari believe that brahmachaaris

> must be frauds and only lechers can be honest people. I have no cure

> for such biases. Maybe Pt Ravishankar can play beena or sitar before a

> buffalo, but I am a not a genius like Pt Ravishankar. why not test the

> readymade solution : Kundalee software , which is free and accurate ?

>

> -VJ

> ========== ============ ==============

> , " vinayjhaa16 "

> <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> >

> > Friends,

> >

> > The main issue is : Which is the Best Mathematical Method for

Predictive

> > Astrology ??

> >

> > Now it is high time all mess created by " unnecessary personal words

> > match " , as one member put, it should be put to a final end, which is

> > wasting a great deal of my time as well as of others.

> >

> > What is being ignored by some members here is the fact it it is not a

> > case of " personal words match " (1) because I have consistently

> > refrained from any personal attacks on the abuser, (2) because my sole

> > aim was to bring to light some neglected aspects of Indian astrology,

> > and (3) because neither me nor Mr Chandra Hari has any personal

loss or

> > gain from this whole drama. Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person

> > and he had no previous personal animosity against me, because he did

> > not even know me personally. The matter is far from being " personal " ,

> > although Mr Chandra Hari's " special style " of dealing with issues

create

> > an impression of the matter being personal.

> >

> > The problem arose from his reluctance to allow any discussion on

issues

> > which does not suit his personal views. Unfortunately, some

members are

> > not understanding the impotance of those issues which gave rise to

> > present controversy and define this issue as " unnecessary

personal " feud

> > or having " no bearing to the pesent day applications " . Mr Chandra

Hari

> > also wants that I should not be allowed to raise the issues I am

> > raising. Some members have opposed his violent way of reacting,

but two

> > members failed to see the importance of issues I want to get

discussed,

> > and are therefore unconsciously siding with Mr Chandra Hari. If the

> > issues I regard paramount in astrology are not worth discussion

and are

> > merely my " personal " matters, then there is no point in my continuance

> > in this forum .

> >

> > The issue is which is the mathematical theory most suitable for the

> > purpose of predictive astrology, physical astronomy or Suryasiddhanta.

> > Those who eulogise Varaha Mihira and call me his opponent forget that

> > Varaha Mihira checked all theories and passed his verdict in the

favour

> > of Suryasiddhanta. It is an important issue which must not be

censored.

> > Only then many other important issues can be properly discussed,

such as

> > tantric chakras & c.

> >

> > One member clearly told me that " members " of this forum do not know me

> > and they know Mr Chandra Hari as a well known scholar, and regarded Mr

> > Chandra Hari to be the competent authority to judge my views. Mr

Chandra

> > Hari passed his verdict without discussing anything, and demanded my

> > expulsion and even " beheading " , but later started discussing some

> > points, but in a biased and abusive manner, always calling me a

" fraud " .

> > If I am declared to be fraud my a senior member of this forum who is

> > respected by some other members who do not know me, the issues I am

> > raising also become fraudulent claims which ought to be excluded from

> > agenda. The issues I deem important are felt to be non-issues by those

> > who doubt my credentials. Unless they recognize me as a responsible

> > person, they will not be seriously interested in discussing the issues

> > and views pertinent to crucial problems of Indian astrology. It is,

> > therefore, necessary to bring to light some facts related to my

> > credibility, without which I cannot discuss any issue here and

will be a

> > target of abuses and ridicule by a handful of persons who are ignorant

> > of the importance of issues I raised. Hence, before discussing issues,

> > my credibility must be checked, which is under consistent and

deliberate

> > attack here.

> >

> > I did not want to talk of modern science among astrologers. More,

> > boasting of achievements is against my nature, unless it is

necessary to

> > show something important for the good of everyoneNow I am bound to

show

> > some concrete evidence about my truthfulness. All interested

members are

> > requested to read the following webpage, which will clear all doubts

> > about me and about the issues I have raised :

> >

>

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+acc\

> > epted+by+CAOS%2C+IISc

> >

>

<http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+ac\

> > cepted+by+CAOS%2C+IISc>

> >

> > Please do not form any opinion in a hurry, the matter is serious, and

> > read the whole page in this link. You may also read another page,

which

> > presents evidences about Suryasiddhantic method being forced upon a

> > university through legal means, which compelled the VC to organize

> > conferences for examining my points :

> >

> > http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Credentials

> > <http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Credentials>

> >

> > If someone doubts that I am a fraud to have fabricated these

evidences,

> > he may contact the authorities whose addresses are clearly given

and all

> > well known. The conclusions are :

> >

> > (1) Wold's topmost institutions of modern science (NASA, Royal

Society,

> > IISc...) recognized my works in weather forecasting and IISc accepted

> > my new approach (new theory) of FORECASTING , although I could not

> > elaborate all features of my theory in a single paper (I have provided

> > the link to this paper too , which contains the summary of my " new "

> > theory and gives concrete evidences in favour of some new

discoveries by

> > me, which were duly recognized by referees.

> >

> > (2) Topmost astrologers and heads of ALL Sanskrit universities of

> > India unanimously decided, after 2 days of debates, that

Suryasiddhanta

> > must be the basis of all panchangas of India, and recognized the

> > reliability of my free software.

> >

> > (3) Mr Chandra Hari claims to be a scientist, but in spite of my

> > requests could not contact the heads of those scientific

establishments

> > about my supposedly fraudulent claims, and kept on abusing me

calling me

> > a " fraud " due to his jealousy. The fact is " scholars " like Mr Chandra

> > Hari would not get an entry into these high grade scientific

> > establishments which appreciated my works. Even IISc is not free for

> > all, NASA and Royal Society are distant dreams for " scientists "

like Mr

> > Chandra Hari. Will Mr Chandra Hari labels all institutions recognizing

> > me as fraudulent , as he did recently !!!

> >

> > (4) Now, after seeing proofs of my soundness, Mr Chandra Hari and some

> > of his associates may start shouting that I am wasting the time of an

> > astrological forum by pointing to scientific topics. But it was Mr

> > Chandra Hari who started claiming to be a " scientist " and on that

count

> > ordered a fatwa to expel and behead me. Mr Chandra Hari knows nothing

> > about either science or astrology, all his knowledge is

superficial and

> > bookish, based on a fallacious assumption that whatever Westerners

wrote

> > about India is irrefutable and brahma-vaakya.

> >

> > I repeat that Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person ; he knows how

> > to cite from texts (and how to neglect those portions of same texts

> > which does not suit one's biases, many " intellectuals " do so

> > now-a-days). I must add that modern education imparts mere bookish

> > knowledge and not insight. Insight cannot be taught, because it comes

> > from lifelong devotion to any good cause. I did not raise any

family and

> > did not join any career in spite of brilliant academic records in both

> > science and literature, just because I wanted all my time to be

devoted

> > to a single cause : pursuit of knowledge of those those things which

> > have lasting value in this transient world. The very fact that I

did not

> > join any paid service anywhere make me a fraud in the eyes of

those who

> > value worldly recognition more than they value truth. Hence, I have

> > disclosed some of my worldly credentials here, for which beg apology

> > from God, because a monk must never boast of worldly achievements,

> > unless it is necessitated by some higher cause.

> >

> > Mr Chandra Hari has passed his verdict on me : I am a fraud. Some

other

> > members have also said that I am raising bogus issues. If the majority

> > of members here regard me as a fraud raising useless matters, my

present

> > mail may be treated as my last mail to this forum and the

moderator may

> > be requested to cancel my membership. Let me see how a " majority "

kills

> > Truth once again, without a fair discussion. It has happened so many

> > times. I do not care for false peoples.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > --Vinay Jha

> >

> > =========== =========== =========== ===========

> >

> > P.S. :

> >

> > In my own horoscope, Jupiter is in its moolatrikona with lagnesh

Venus,

> > and dashamesh Moon is in the house of Dharma making a very strong

> > gajakesari yoga in the service of Dharma and Paraakrama. Moreover,

this

> > Jupiter is also lord of 6th house making opponents of Truth always

bite

> > dust but not without abusing me falsely, with many other good

> > combinations, such as dharmesh mercury in 5th house and Saturn being

> > highly auspicious by dint of being lord of 4th and 5th houses and

having

> > a yuti relation with Jupiter and Venus, and Rahu Ketu being in

their own

> > houses. As a result, I cannot be defeated in any free and fair

> > sahaastraartha by bookish scholars in my fields of expertize, they can

> > only silence me by shoutings of an imaginary " majority " of a

handful of

> > persons who do not even form a real majority, or " behead " me as Mr

> > Chandra Hari has incited you twice, or poison me as Socrates was done

> > with, but remember, friends, the killers of Socrates and their views

> > died out and people even forgot their names, but Socrates is still

alive

> > in me and in all of you, although many members here may not see the

> > inner flame within every human heart lit by the deliberate self

> > sacrifice of Socrates. This inner flame is fueled by a rejection

of all

> > dogmatism, bias, incivility, etc etc, which all you already know, but

> > this very flame is dimmed by censorship of those ideas which a person

> > does not know or does not want to know. A person can be killed, but

> > ideas are invincivle and immortal. I live by idealism, subsisting

on one

> > meal a day for 11 years and donating all my savings to schools and

> > sadhus, but worldly people live by materialism, which compels them to

> > visualize the grahas of jyotisha as material planets of physical

> > sciences. I have countless proofs in my favour, but here I do not

find a

> > conducive environment to discuss even a single point in detail. I

> > started a topic on tantric astrology which was diverted to wine

and sex,

> > and I was therefore compelled to leave that discussion, and now I am

> > told that I am not able to discuss anything about tantic chakras & c.

> >

> > (Only the real bhaktas can defeat me but such a situation can never

> > arise, because I surrender before all real bhaktas without arguing ;

> > arguments are needed among the worldly folks because they do not have

> > any alternative.)

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> > ==================================================================

> >

> > ==================================================================

> >

>

January 12, 2009

Dear Vinayji, QuoteMaterial properties are proportianal to the quantity of matter, but astrological planets do not exhibit astrological effects in proportion to their mass or other known properties.UnquoteThere is fuzzy logic as there are many factors and one most important factor among them is the combined effect of the variable distance of a planet from the earth, the Moon, the other planets and from the Sun. Even at the physical level, the gravitational effect, however small, exerted by a planet on the earth will depend on all these factors and not on the mass of the planet. It is because of this the astrological planet if somewhat different from the physical planet. This does not mean that the physical positions of the planets have no bearing on astrology.Sorry I used the term "fuzzy logic". Any friend

from the member may simplify my statement without using the term "fuzzy logic"Regards,SKB--- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 Re: Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ?? Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 6:48 AM

Bohra jee

[ answer to his message at :

http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology /message/ 17368 ]

I tested all major ancient and modern theories of computing (Ganita)

planetary positions, lagna, etc, on the criterion of accuracy of

predictive part of astrology (Phalita), while others do not even care

to bother about this problem and blindly assume that modern scientific

astronomy is perfectly suited for astrology. Such persons call this

blind faith on science as their "scientific attitude", forgetting the

fact that modern science does not recognize the validity of astrology,

because no property of matter has ever been attested to be associated

with astrological effects. Material properties are proportianal to the

quantity of matter, but astrological planets do not exhibit

astrological effects in proportion to their mass or other known

properties. Hence we must dive into the Unknown !

Over 99% astrologers have no concern with such problems, they want

readymade solutions. I give them such a freeware which I claim will

give accurate astrological results. Instead of testing this software,

a pseudo-scientist came and issued Fatwas against me, in spite of the

fact that I had provided names of world's topmost scientific

institutions like NASA and IISc (CAOS) where my scientific works have

already been verified. Why these institutions were not asked about my

credentials before abusing me ?

The proof of my assertions is the accuracy of my software, which needs

practical astrologers who can test my software. But Mr Chandra Hari

could not test my software due to his intense hatred for

Suryasiddhanta and for all such persons who become brahmachaaris.

Unless my software is tested, I cannot prove myself to be true. The

only alternative was my credentials, which I presented at my website.

Instead of asking those institutions about me, I was abused as a

fraud, because persons like Mr Chandra Hari believe that brahmachaaris

must be frauds and only lechers can be honest people. I have no cure

for such biases. Maybe Pt Ravishankar can play beena or sitar before a

buffalo, but I am a not a genius like Pt Ravishankar. why not test the

readymade solution : Kundalee software , which is free and accurate ?

-VJ

========== ============ ============ ==

ancient_indian_ astrology, "vinayjhaa16"

<vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Friends,

>

> The main issue is : Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive

> Astrology ??

>

> Now it is high time all mess created by "unnecessary personal words

> match" , as one member put, it should be put to a final end, which is

> wasting a great deal of my time as well as of others.

>

> What is being ignored by some members here is the fact it it is not a

> case of "personal words match" (1) because I have consistently

> refrained from any personal attacks on the abuser, (2) because my sole

> aim was to bring to light some neglected aspects of Indian astrology,

> and (3) because neither me nor Mr Chandra Hari has any personal loss or

> gain from this whole drama. Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person

> and he had no previous personal animosity against me, because he did

> not even know me personally. The matter is far from being "personal",

> although Mr Chandra Hari's "special style" of dealing with issues create

> an impression of the matter being personal.

>

> The problem arose from his reluctance to allow any discussion on issues

> which does not suit his personal views. Unfortunately, some members are

> not understanding the impotance of those issues which gave rise to

> present controversy and define this issue as "unnecessary personal" feud

> or having " no bearing to the pesent day applications" . Mr Chandra Hari

> also wants that I should not be allowed to raise the issues I am

> raising. Some members have opposed his violent way of reacting, but two

> members failed to see the importance of issues I want to get discussed,

> and are therefore unconsciously siding with Mr Chandra Hari. If the

> issues I regard paramount in astrology are not worth discussion and are

> merely my "personal" matters, then there is no point in my continuance

> in this forum .

>

> The issue is which is the mathematical theory most suitable for the

> purpose of predictive astrology, physical astronomy or Suryasiddhanta.

> Those who eulogise Varaha Mihira and call me his opponent forget that

> Varaha Mihira checked all theories and passed his verdict in the favour

> of Suryasiddhanta. It is an important issue which must not be censored.

> Only then many other important issues can be properly discussed, such as

> tantric chakras & c.

>

> One member clearly told me that "members" of this forum do not know me

> and they know Mr Chandra Hari as a well known scholar, and regarded Mr

> Chandra Hari to be the competent authority to judge my views. Mr Chandra

> Hari passed his verdict without discussing anything, and demanded my

> expulsion and even "beheading", but later started discussing some

> points, but in a biased and abusive manner, always calling me a "fraud".

> If I am declared to be fraud my a senior member of this forum who is

> respected by some other members who do not know me, the issues I am

> raising also become fraudulent claims which ought to be excluded from

> agenda. The issues I deem important are felt to be non-issues by those

> who doubt my credentials. Unless they recognize me as a responsible

> person, they will not be seriously interested in discussing the issues

> and views pertinent to crucial problems of Indian astrology. It is,

> therefore, necessary to bring to light some facts related to my

> credibility, without which I cannot discuss any issue here and will be a

> target of abuses and ridicule by a handful of persons who are ignorant

> of the importance of issues I raised. Hence, before discussing issues,

> my credibility must be checked, which is under consistent and deliberate

> attack here.

>

> I did not want to talk of modern science among astrologers. More,

> boasting of achievements is against my nature, unless it is necessary to

> show something important for the good of everyoneNow I am bound to show

> some concrete evidence about my truthfulness. All interested members are

> requested to read the following webpage, which will clear all doubts

> about me and about the issues I have raised :

>

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s+ Report%3B+ %26+my+Paper+ acc\

> epted+by+CAOS% 2C+IISc

>

<http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s+ Report%3B+ %26+my+Paper+ ac\

> cepted+by+CAOS% 2C+IISc>

>

> Please do not form any opinion in a hurry, the matter is serious, and

> read the whole page in this link. You may also read another page, which

> presents evidences about Suryasiddhantic method being forced upon a

> university through legal means, which compelled the VC to organize

> conferences for examining my points :

>

> http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials

> <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials>

>

> If someone doubts that I am a fraud to have fabricated these evidences,

> he may contact the authorities whose addresses are clearly given and all

> well known. The conclusions are :

>

> (1) Wold's topmost institutions of modern science (NASA, Royal Society,

> IISc...) recognized my works in weather forecasting and IISc accepted

> my new approach (new theory) of FORECASTING , although I could not

> elaborate all features of my theory in a single paper (I have provided

> the link to this paper too , which contains the summary of my "new"

> theory and gives concrete evidences in favour of some new discoveries by

> me, which were duly recognized by referees.

>

> (2) Topmost astrologers and heads of ALL Sanskrit universities of

> India unanimously decided, after 2 days of debates, that Suryasiddhanta

> must be the basis of all panchangas of India, and recognized the

> reliability of my free software.

>

> (3) Mr Chandra Hari claims to be a scientist, but in spite of my

> requests could not contact the heads of those scientific establishments

> about my supposedly fraudulent claims, and kept on abusing me calling me

> a "fraud" due to his jealousy. The fact is "scholars" like Mr Chandra

> Hari would not get an entry into these high grade scientific

> establishments which appreciated my works. Even IISc is not free for

> all, NASA and Royal Society are distant dreams for "scientists" like Mr

> Chandra Hari. Will Mr Chandra Hari labels all institutions recognizing

> me as fraudulent , as he did recently !!!

>

> (4) Now, after seeing proofs of my soundness, Mr Chandra Hari and some

> of his associates may start shouting that I am wasting the time of an

> astrological forum by pointing to scientific topics. But it was Mr

> Chandra Hari who started claiming to be a "scientist" and on that count

> ordered a fatwa to expel and behead me. Mr Chandra Hari knows nothing

> about either science or astrology, all his knowledge is superficial and

> bookish, based on a fallacious assumption that whatever Westerners wrote

> about India is irrefutable and brahma-vaakya.

>

> I repeat that Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person ; he knows how

> to cite from texts (and how to neglect those portions of same texts

> which does not suit one's biases, many "intellectuals" do so

> now-a-days). I must add that modern education imparts mere bookish

> knowledge and not insight. Insight cannot be taught, because it comes

> from lifelong devotion to any good cause. I did not raise any family and

> did not join any career in spite of brilliant academic records in both

> science and literature, just because I wanted all my time to be devoted

> to a single cause : pursuit of knowledge of those those things which

> have lasting value in this transient world. The very fact that I did not

> join any paid service anywhere make me a fraud in the eyes of those who

> value worldly recognition more than they value truth. Hence, I have

> disclosed some of my worldly credentials here, for which beg apology

> from God, because a monk must never boast of worldly achievements,

> unless it is necessitated by some higher cause.

>

> Mr Chandra Hari has passed his verdict on me : I am a fraud. Some other

> members have also said that I am raising bogus issues. If the majority

> of members here regard me as a fraud raising useless matters, my present

> mail may be treated as my last mail to this forum and the moderator may

> be requested to cancel my membership. Let me see how a "majority" kills

> Truth once again, without a fair discussion. It has happened so many

> times. I do not care for false peoples.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> --Vinay Jha

>

> =========== =========== =========== ===========

>

> P.S. :

>

> In my own horoscope, Jupiter is in its moolatrikona with lagnesh Venus,

> and dashamesh Moon is in the house of Dharma making a very strong

> gajakesari yoga in the service of Dharma and Paraakrama. Moreover, this

> Jupiter is also lord of 6th house making opponents of Truth always bite

> dust but not without abusing me falsely, with many other good

> combinations, such as dharmesh mercury in 5th house and Saturn being

> highly auspicious by dint of being lord of 4th and 5th houses and having

> a yuti relation with Jupiter and Venus, and Rahu Ketu being in their own

> houses. As a result, I cannot be defeated in any free and fair

> sahaastraartha by bookish scholars in my fields of expertize, they can

> only silence me by shoutings of an imaginary "majority" of a handful of

> persons who do not even form a real majority, or "behead" me as Mr

> Chandra Hari has incited you twice, or poison me as Socrates was done

> with, but remember, friends, the killers of Socrates and their views

> died out and people even forgot their names, but Socrates is still alive

> in me and in all of you, although many members here may not see the

> inner flame within every human heart lit by the deliberate self

> sacrifice of Socrates. This inner flame is fueled by a rejection of all

> dogmatism, bias, incivility, etc etc, which all you already know, but

> this very flame is dimmed by censorship of those ideas which a person

> does not know or does not want to know. A person can be killed, but

> ideas are invincivle and immortal. I live by idealism, subsisting on one

> meal a day for 11 years and donating all my savings to schools and

> sadhus, but worldly people live by materialism, which compels them to

> visualize the grahas of jyotisha as material planets of physical

> sciences. I have countless proofs in my favour, but here I do not find a

> conducive environment to discuss even a single point in detail. I

> started a topic on tantric astrology which was diverted to wine and sex,

> and I was therefore compelled to leave that discussion, and now I am

> told that I am not able to discuss anything about tantic chakras & c.

>

> (Only the real bhaktas can defeat me but such a situation can never

> arise, because I surrender before all real bhaktas without arguing ;

> arguments are needed among the worldly folks because they do not have

> any alternative. )

>

> -VJ

>

> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =========

>

> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =========

>

January 12, 2009

Sunil jee,

(1)

You said : " If you want us to believe in your opinion you have to

prove that to us..... exact reference to any existing literature which

proves your point. "

I have just begun to translate my works into English, but it is not a

part of my plan nor in my capacity to rewrite the entire history of

science. An overwhelming majority of the writers of history of Vedas

and Vedangas (incl. Jyotisha) have written histories from Eurocentric

and materialistic points of view. I am devoting my energies towards

the fulfilment of a more practically useful project, in which you have

no interest due to your preoccupations : establishment of astrology as

a " science " (but not as a " materialistic " science). I will certainly

expose wrong opinions deliberately propagated by these Western

historians of science and their native supporters, one of which is

about ayanamsha.

What you call " my opinion " is actually the unanimous decision of ALL

Sanskrit universities at a mammoth conference (cf. bottom of the

webpage

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+accepted+by\

+CAOS%2C+IISc

)

You should not refer to Bhaskaracharya's Siddhanta Siromani while

discussing precession or ayanamsha ; Siddhanta Siromani mentions

others but did not give his own opinion at all. But Colebrooke falsely

quoted Bhaskaracharya's own view (cf. As.Res., xii. 209, etc, ii. 374,

etc) at many places and discussed it in detail, forgetting that he was

quoting wrongly, and Burgess relied on Colebrooke's wrong allusion to

Bhaskaracharya instead of consulting Siddhanta Siromani directly,

although Lancelot Wilkinson had translated Siddhanta Siromani before

Burgess finished his translation of Suryasiddhanta. The reason was

that Burgess knew the Suryasiddhantic method and definition of

ayanamsha, but he wanted to ridicule Suryasiddhanta for which he

needed real or imaginary evidences.

Hence, please read the original Siddhanta Siromani, Suryasiddhanta,

etc . But the historians of science do not even quote the mainstream

academics of Sanskrit universities, who are regarded as useless

remnants of an extinct specie (that extinct specie is " Vedic... " ). You

also rely upon " Astronomer-Jyotishis and not of the

Astrologer-Jyotishis " . In which category do you put me? Why being an

astrologer is a sign of stupidity ?? If some astrologers are stupid,

are not some scientists (not you) also stupid ?? I will soon show you

how modern astronomical constants can be deduced from Suryasiddhantic

theories, although you will not be able to believe in it, but you may

not be able to brush aside of astonishing results.

(2)

You say " I know the mystery. The mystery is the precessional movement

of the earth... " . Varaha Mihira explicitly spoke of the " mystery " of

" beeja " , which you misinterpret as precession of equinoxes.

The term " beeja " has never been used for precession by any

ancient/modern Indian/foreigh authur ; it is your personal opinion,

which will not be able to substantiate by means of well documentary

evidences. Please refer to the original texts before arguing. I

request you to read :

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Beeja+Correction+(Samskaara)

I know you are well intentiioned, but so mush of filth has been piled

up by misguided foreign commentators that it is very difficult to

understand original texts, and it is almost impossible if one relies

on commentaries without consulting the original.

As per your wishes, I have provided the link of my paper on rain

forecasting at

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+accepted+by\

+CAOS%2C+IISc

I request you to have some patience and give me some time to expalin.

-VJ

=============== =============== =============== ===============

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> Quote

>

> Material properties are proportianal to the quantity of matter, but

astrological planets do not exhibit astrological effects in proportion

to their mass or other known properties.

>

> Unquote

>

> There is fuzzy logic as there are many factors and one most

important factor among them is the combined effect of the variable

distance of a planet from the earth, the Moon, the other planets and

from the Sun. Even at the physical level, the gravitational effect,

however small, exerted by a planet on the earth will depend on all

these factors and not on the mass of the planet. It is because of this

the astrological planet if somewhat different from the physical

planet. This does not mean that the physical positions of the planets

have no bearing on astrology.

>

> Sorry I used the term " fuzzy logic " . Any friend from the member may

simplify my statement without using the term " fuzzy logic "

>

> Regards,

>

> SKB

>

> --- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

> Re: Which is the Best

Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

>

> Sunday, January 11, 2009, 6:48 AM

>

Bohra jee

>

> [ answer to his message at :

>

> http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology /message/

17368 ]

>

> I tested all major ancient and modern theories of computing (Ganita)

>

> planetary positions, lagna, etc, on the criterion of accuracy of

>

> predictive part of astrology (Phalita), while others do not even care

>

> to bother about this problem and blindly assume that modern scientific

>

> astronomy is perfectly suited for astrology. Such persons call this

>

> blind faith on science as their " scientific attitude " , forgetting the

>

> fact that modern science does not recognize the validity of astrology,

>

> because no property of matter has ever been attested to be associated

>

> with astrological effects. Material properties are proportianal to the

>

> quantity of matter, but astrological planets do not exhibit

>

> astrological effects in proportion to their mass or other known

>

> properties. Hence we must dive into the Unknown !

>

> Over 99% astrologers have no concern with such problems, they want

>

> readymade solutions. I give them such a freeware which I claim will

>

> give accurate astrological results. Instead of testing this software,

>

> a pseudo-scientist came and issued Fatwas against me, in spite of the

>

> fact that I had provided names of world's topmost scientific

>

> institutions like NASA and IISc (CAOS) where my scientific works have

>

> already been verified. Why these institutions were not asked about my

>

> credentials before abusing me ?

>

> The proof of my assertions is the accuracy of my software, which needs

>

> practical astrologers who can test my software. But Mr Chandra Hari

>

> could not test my software due to his intense hatred for

>

> Suryasiddhanta and for all such persons who become brahmachaaris.

>

> Unless my software is tested, I cannot prove myself to be true. The

>

> only alternative was my credentials, which I presented at my website.

>

> Instead of asking those institutions about me, I was abused as a

>

> fraud, because persons like Mr Chandra Hari believe that brahmachaaris

>

> must be frauds and only lechers can be honest people. I have no cure

>

> for such biases. Maybe Pt Ravishankar can play beena or sitar before a

>

> buffalo, but I am a not a genius like Pt Ravishankar. why not test the

>

> readymade solution : Kundalee software , which is free and accurate ?

>

> -VJ

>

> ========== ============ ============ ==

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, " vinayjhaa16 "

>

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Friends,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > The main issue is : Which is the Best Mathematical Method for

Predictive

>

> > Astrology ??

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Now it is high time all mess created by " unnecessary personal words

>

> > match " , as one member put, it should be put to a final end, which is

>

> > wasting a great deal of my time as well as of others.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > What is being ignored by some members here is the fact it it is not a

>

> > case of " personal words match " (1) because I have consistently

>

> > refrained from any personal attacks on the abuser, (2) because my sole

>

> > aim was to bring to light some neglected aspects of Indian astrology,

>

> > and (3) because neither me nor Mr Chandra Hari has any personal

loss or

>

> > gain from this whole drama. Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person

>

> > and he had no previous personal animosity against me, because he did

>

> > not even know me personally. The matter is far from being " personal " ,

>

> > although Mr Chandra Hari's " special style " of dealing with issues

create

>

> > an impression of the matter being personal.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > The problem arose from his reluctance to allow any discussion on

issues

>

> > which does not suit his personal views. Unfortunately, some

members are

>

> > not understanding the impotance of those issues which gave rise to

>

> > present controversy and define this issue as " unnecessary

personal " feud

>

> > or having " no bearing to the pesent day applications " . Mr

Chandra Hari

>

> > also wants that I should not be allowed to raise the issues I am

>

> > raising. Some members have opposed his violent way of reacting,

but two

>

> > members failed to see the importance of issues I want to get

discussed,

>

> > and are therefore unconsciously siding with Mr Chandra Hari. If the

>

> > issues I regard paramount in astrology are not worth discussion

and are

>

> > merely my " personal " matters, then there is no point in my continuance

>

> > in this forum .

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > The issue is which is the mathematical theory most suitable for the

>

> > purpose of predictive astrology, physical astronomy or Suryasiddhanta.

>

> > Those who eulogise Varaha Mihira and call me his opponent forget that

>

> > Varaha Mihira checked all theories and passed his verdict in the

favour

>

> > of Suryasiddhanta. It is an important issue which must not be

censored.

>

> > Only then many other important issues can be properly discussed,

such as

>

> > tantric chakras & c.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > One member clearly told me that " members " of this forum do not know me

>

> > and they know Mr Chandra Hari as a well known scholar, and regarded Mr

>

> > Chandra Hari to be the competent authority to judge my views. Mr

Chandra

>

> > Hari passed his verdict without discussing anything, and demanded my

>

> > expulsion and even " beheading " , but later started discussing some

>

> > points, but in a biased and abusive manner, always calling me a

" fraud " .

>

> > If I am declared to be fraud my a senior member of this forum who is

>

> > respected by some other members who do not know me, the issues I am

>

> > raising also become fraudulent claims which ought to be excluded from

>

> > agenda. The issues I deem important are felt to be non-issues by those

>

> > who doubt my credentials. Unless they recognize me as a responsible

>

> > person, they will not be seriously interested in discussing the issues

>

> > and views pertinent to crucial problems of Indian astrology. It is,

>

> > therefore, necessary to bring to light some facts related to my

>

> > credibility, without which I cannot discuss any issue here and

will be a

>

> > target of abuses and ridicule by a handful of persons who are ignorant

>

> > of the importance of issues I raised. Hence, before discussing issues,

>

> > my credibility must be checked, which is under consistent and

deliberate

>

> > attack here.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I did not want to talk of modern science among astrologers. More,

>

> > boasting of achievements is against my nature, unless it is

necessary to

>

> > show something important for the good of everyoneNow I am bound to

show

>

> > some concrete evidence about my truthfulness. All interested

members are

>

> > requested to read the following webpage, which will clear all doubts

>

> > about me and about the issues I have raised :

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s+ Report%3B+

%26+my+Paper+ acc\

>

> > epted+by+CAOS% 2C+IISc

>

> >

>

> <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s+ Report%3B+

%26+my+Paper+ ac\

>

> > cepted+by+CAOS% 2C+IISc>

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Please do not form any opinion in a hurry, the matter is serious, and

>

> > read the whole page in this link. You may also read another page,

which

>

> > presents evidences about Suryasiddhantic method being forced upon a

>

> > university through legal means, which compelled the VC to organize

>

> > conferences for examining my points :

>

> >

>

> > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials

>

> > <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials>

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > If someone doubts that I am a fraud to have fabricated these

evidences,

>

> > he may contact the authorities whose addresses are clearly given

and all

>

> > well known. The conclusions are :

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > (1) Wold's topmost institutions of modern science (NASA, Royal

Society,

>

> > IISc...) recognized my works in weather forecasting and IISc accepted

>

> > my new approach (new theory) of FORECASTING , although I could not

>

> > elaborate all features of my theory in a single paper (I have provided

>

> > the link to this paper too , which contains the summary of my " new "

>

> > theory and gives concrete evidences in favour of some new

discoveries by

>

> > me, which were duly recognized by referees.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > (2) Topmost astrologers and heads of ALL Sanskrit universities of

>

> > India unanimously decided, after 2 days of debates, that

Suryasiddhanta

>

> > must be the basis of all panchangas of India, and recognized the

>

> > reliability of my free software.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > (3) Mr Chandra Hari claims to be a scientist, but in spite of my

>

> > requests could not contact the heads of those scientific

establishments

>

> > about my supposedly fraudulent claims, and kept on abusing me

calling me

>

> > a " fraud " due to his jealousy. The fact is " scholars " like Mr Chandra

>

> > Hari would not get an entry into these high grade scientific

>

> > establishments which appreciated my works. Even IISc is not free for

>

> > all, NASA and Royal Society are distant dreams for " scientists "

like Mr

>

> > Chandra Hari. Will Mr Chandra Hari labels all institutions recognizing

>

> > me as fraudulent , as he did recently !!!

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > (4) Now, after seeing proofs of my soundness, Mr Chandra Hari and some

>

> > of his associates may start shouting that I am wasting the time of an

>

> > astrological forum by pointing to scientific topics. But it was Mr

>

> > Chandra Hari who started claiming to be a " scientist " and on that

count

>

> > ordered a fatwa to expel and behead me. Mr Chandra Hari knows nothing

>

> > about either science or astrology, all his knowledge is

superficial and

>

> > bookish, based on a fallacious assumption that whatever Westerners

wrote

>

> > about India is irrefutable and brahma-vaakya.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I repeat that Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person ; he knows how

>

> > to cite from texts (and how to neglect those portions of same texts

>

> > which does not suit one's biases, many " intellectuals " do so

>

> > now-a-days). I must add that modern education imparts mere bookish

>

> > knowledge and not insight. Insight cannot be taught, because it comes

>

> > from lifelong devotion to any good cause. I did not raise any

family and

>

> > did not join any career in spite of brilliant academic records in both

>

> > science and literature, just because I wanted all my time to be

devoted

>

> > to a single cause : pursuit of knowledge of those those things which

>

> > have lasting value in this transient world. The very fact that I

did not

>

> > join any paid service anywhere make me a fraud in the eyes of

those who

>

> > value worldly recognition more than they value truth. Hence, I have

>

> > disclosed some of my worldly credentials here, for which beg apology

>

> > from God, because a monk must never boast of worldly achievements,

>

> > unless it is necessitated by some higher cause.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Mr Chandra Hari has passed his verdict on me : I am a fraud. Some

other

>

> > members have also said that I am raising bogus issues. If the majority

>

> > of members here regard me as a fraud raising useless matters, my

present

>

> > mail may be treated as my last mail to this forum and the

moderator may

>

> > be requested to cancel my membership. Let me see how a " majority "

kills

>

> > Truth once again, without a fair discussion. It has happened so many

>

> > times. I do not care for false peoples.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Sincerely,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --Vinay Jha

>

> >

>

> > =========== =========== =========== ===========

>

> >

>

> > P.S. :

>

> >

>

> > In my own horoscope, Jupiter is in its moolatrikona with lagnesh

Venus,

>

> > and dashamesh Moon is in the house of Dharma making a very strong

>

> > gajakesari yoga in the service of Dharma and Paraakrama. Moreover,

this

>

> > Jupiter is also lord of 6th house making opponents of Truth always

bite

>

> > dust but not without abusing me falsely, with many other good

>

> > combinations, such as dharmesh mercury in 5th house and Saturn being

>

> > highly auspicious by dint of being lord of 4th and 5th houses and

having

>

> > a yuti relation with Jupiter and Venus, and Rahu Ketu being in

their own

>

> > houses. As a result, I cannot be defeated in any free and fair

>

> > sahaastraartha by bookish scholars in my fields of expertize, they can

>

> > only silence me by shoutings of an imaginary " majority " of a

handful of

>

> > persons who do not even form a real majority, or " behead " me as Mr

>

> > Chandra Hari has incited you twice, or poison me as Socrates was done

>

> > with, but remember, friends, the killers of Socrates and their views

>

> > died out and people even forgot their names, but Socrates is still

alive

>

> > in me and in all of you, although many members here may not see the

>

> > inner flame within every human heart lit by the deliberate self

>

> > sacrifice of Socrates. This inner flame is fueled by a rejection

of all

>

> > dogmatism, bias, incivility, etc etc, which all you already know, but

>

> > this very flame is dimmed by censorship of those ideas which a person

>

> > does not know or does not want to know. A person can be killed, but

>

> > ideas are invincivle and immortal. I live by idealism, subsisting

on one

>

> > meal a day for 11 years and donating all my savings to schools and

>

> > sadhus, but worldly people live by materialism, which compels them to

>

> > visualize the grahas of jyotisha as material planets of physical

>

> > sciences. I have countless proofs in my favour, but here I do not

find a

>

> > conducive environment to discuss even a single point in detail. I

>

> > started a topic on tantric astrology which was diverted to wine

and sex,

>

> > and I was therefore compelled to leave that discussion, and now I am

>

> > told that I am not able to discuss anything about tantic chakras & c.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > (Only the real bhaktas can defeat me but such a situation can never

>

> > arise, because I surrender before all real bhaktas without arguing ;

>

> > arguments are needed among the worldly folks because they do not have

>

> > any alternative. )

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > -VJ

>

> >

>

> > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========

=========

>

> >

>

> > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========

=========

>

> >

>

January 12, 2009

Dear Friends,

The ongoing discussion in this topic is, unfortunately, creating

more mails of less values.

What I have understood so far that Shri Jha-ji and Sri ChandraHari-ji

have different understanding of very basics of astrology. And they

are arguing. So far so good.

But apparently, both of them has fixation regarding the others and

calling / mentioning others name where that is not required.

May I request both of you as well as other learned members that

let us put our ego aside for a single day and discuss different

ideas with a really OPEN mind..with a clean slate and let's see

where it takes us.

I understand that both Jha-ji and C Hari-ji are highly knowledgeable

and it will be a pity if their discussion turns in to such a poor shape.

regards

Chakraborty

vinayjhaa16 [vinayjhaa16]Monday, January 12, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: Re: Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

Sunil jee,(1)You said : "If you want us to believe in your opinion you have toprove that to us..... exact reference to any existing literature whichproves your point."I have just begun to translate my works into English, but it is not apart of my plan nor in my capacity to rewrite the entire history ofscience. An overwhelming majority of the writers of history of Vedasand Vedangas (incl. Jyotisha) have written histories from Eurocentricand materialistic points of view. I am devoting my energies towardsthe fulfilment of a more practically useful project, in which you haveno interest due to your preoccupations : establishment of astrology asa "science" (but not as a "materialistic" science). I will certainlyexpose wrong opinions deliberately propagated by these Westernhistorians of science and their native supporters, one of which isabout ayanamsha.What you call "my opinion" is actually the unanimous decision of ALLSanskrit universities at a mammoth conference (cf. bottom of thewebpagehttp://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+accepted+by+CAOS%2C+IISc)You should not refer to Bhaskaracharya's Siddhanta Siromani whilediscussing precession or ayanamsha ; Siddhanta Siromani mentionsothers but did not give his own opinion at all. But Colebrooke falselyquoted Bhaskaracharya's own view (cf. As.Res., xii. 209, etc, ii. 374,etc) at many places and discussed it in detail, forgetting that he wasquoting wrongly, and Burgess relied on Colebrooke's wrong allusion toBhaskaracharya instead of consulting Siddhanta Siromani directly,although Lancelot Wilkinson had translated Siddhanta Siromani beforeBurgess finished his translation of Suryasiddhanta. The reason wasthat Burgess knew the Suryasiddhantic method and definition ofayanamsha, but he wanted to ridicule Suryasiddhanta for which heneeded real or imaginary evidences.Hence, please read the original Siddhanta Siromani, Suryasiddhanta,etc . But the historians of science do not even quote the mainstreamacademics of Sanskrit universities, who are regarded as uselessremnants of an extinct specie (that extinct specie is "Vedic..."). Youalso rely upon "Astronomer-Jyotishis and not of theAstrologer-Jyotishis". In which category do you put me? Why being anastrologer is a sign of stupidity ?? If some astrologers are stupid,are not some scientists (not you) also stupid ?? I will soon show youhow modern astronomical constants can be deduced from Suryasiddhantictheories, although you will not be able to believe in it, but you maynot be able to brush aside of astonishing results.(2)You say "I know the mystery. The mystery is the precessional movementof the earth...". Varaha Mihira explicitly spoke of the "mystery" of"beeja" , which you misinterpret as precession of equinoxes.The term "beeja" has never been used for precession by anyancient/modern Indian/foreigh authur ; it is your personal opinion,which will not be able to substantiate by means of well documentaryevidences. Please refer to the original texts before arguing. Irequest you to read :http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Beeja+Correction+(Samskaara)I know you are well intentiioned, but so mush of filth has been piledup by misguided foreign commentators that it is very difficult tounderstand original texts, and it is almost impossible if one relieson commentaries without consulting the original.As per your wishes, I have provided the link of my paper on rainforecasting athttp://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s+Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+accepted+by+CAOS%2C+IIScI request you to have some patience and give me some time to expalin.-VJ=============== =============== =============== =============== , Sunil Bhattacharjya<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Vinayji, > > Quote> > Material properties are proportianal to the quantity of matter, butastrological planets do not exhibit astrological effects in proportionto their mass or other known properties.> > Unquote> > There is fuzzy logic as there are many factors and one mostimportant factor among them is the combined effect of the variabledistance of a planet from the earth, the Moon, the other planets andfrom the Sun. Even at the physical level, the gravitational effect,however small, exerted by a planet on the earth will depend on allthese factors and not on the mass of the planet. It is because of thisthe astrological planet if somewhat different from the physicalplanet. This does not mean that the physical positions of the planetshave no bearing on astrology.> > Sorry I used the term "fuzzy logic". Any friend from the member maysimplify my statement without using the term "fuzzy logic"> > Regards,> > SKB> > > > > --- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16> Re: Which is the BestMathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??> > Sunday, January 11, 2009, 6:48 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > Bohra jee> > [ answer to his message at :> > http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology /message/17368 ]> > > > I tested all major ancient and modern theories of computing (Ganita)> > planetary positions, lagna, etc, on the criterion of accuracy of> > predictive part of astrology (Phalita), while others do not even care> > to bother about this problem and blindly assume that modern scientific> > astronomy is perfectly suited for astrology. Such persons call this> > blind faith on science as their "scientific attitude", forgetting the> > fact that modern science does not recognize the validity of astrology,> > because no property of matter has ever been attested to be associated> > with astrological effects. Material properties are proportianal to the> > quantity of matter, but astrological planets do not exhibit> > astrological effects in proportion to their mass or other known> > properties. Hence we must dive into the Unknown !> > Over 99% astrologers have no concern with such problems, they want> > readymade solutions. I give them such a freeware which I claim will> > give accurate astrological results. Instead of testing this software,> > a pseudo-scientist came and issued Fatwas against me, in spite of the> > fact that I had provided names of world's topmost scientific> > institutions like NASA and IISc (CAOS) where my scientific works have> > already been verified. Why these institutions were not asked about my> > credentials before abusing me ?> > > > The proof of my assertions is the accuracy of my software, which needs> > practical astrologers who can test my software. But Mr Chandra Hari> > could not test my software due to his intense hatred for> > Suryasiddhanta and for all such persons who become brahmachaaris.> > Unless my software is tested, I cannot prove myself to be true. The> > only alternative was my credentials, which I presented at my website.> > Instead of asking those institutions about me, I was abused as a> > fraud, because persons like Mr Chandra Hari believe that brahmachaaris> > must be frauds and only lechers can be honest people. I have no cure> > for such biases. Maybe Pt Ravishankar can play beena or sitar before a> > buffalo, but I am a not a genius like Pt Ravishankar. why not test the> > readymade solution : Kundalee software , which is free and accurate ?> > > > -VJ> > ========== ============ ============ ==> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "vinayjhaa16"> > <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > > > > Friends,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main issue is : Which is the Best Mathematical Method forPredictive> > > Astrology ??> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now it is high time all mess created by "unnecessary personal words> > > match" , as one member put, it should be put to a final end, which is> > > wasting a great deal of my time as well as of others.> > > > > > > > > > > > What is being ignored by some members here is the fact it it is not a> > > case of "personal words match" (1) because I have consistently> > > refrained from any personal attacks on the abuser, (2) because my sole> > > aim was to bring to light some neglected aspects of Indian astrology,> > > and (3) because neither me nor Mr Chandra Hari has any personalloss or> > > gain from this whole drama. Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person> > > and he had no previous personal animosity against me, because he did> > > not even know me personally. The matter is far from being "personal",> > > although Mr Chandra Hari's "special style" of dealing with issuescreate> > > an impression of the matter being personal.> > > > > > > > > > > > The problem arose from his reluctance to allow any discussion onissues> > > which does not suit his personal views. Unfortunately, somemembers are> > > not understanding the impotance of those issues which gave rise to> > > present controversy and define this issue as "unnecessarypersonal" feud> > > or having " no bearing to the pesent day applications" . MrChandra Hari> > > also wants that I should not be allowed to raise the issues I am> > > raising. Some members have opposed his violent way of reacting,but two> > > members failed to see the importance of issues I want to getdiscussed,> > > and are therefore unconsciously siding with Mr Chandra Hari. If the> > > issues I regard paramount in astrology are not worth discussionand are> > > merely my "personal" matters, then there is no point in my continuance> > > in this forum .> > > > > > > > > > > > The issue is which is the mathematical theory most suitable for the> > > purpose of predictive astrology, physical astronomy or Suryasiddhanta.> > > Those who eulogise Varaha Mihira and call me his opponent forget that> > > Varaha Mihira checked all theories and passed his verdict in thefavour> > > of Suryasiddhanta. It is an important issue which must not becensored.> > > Only then many other important issues can be properly discussed,such as> > > tantric chakras & c.> > > > > > > > > > > > One member clearly told me that "members" of this forum do not know me> > > and they know Mr Chandra Hari as a well known scholar, and regarded Mr> > > Chandra Hari to be the competent authority to judge my views. MrChandra> > > Hari passed his verdict without discussing anything, and demanded my> > > expulsion and even "beheading", but later started discussing some> > > points, but in a biased and abusive manner, always calling me a"fraud".> > > If I am declared to be fraud my a senior member of this forum who is> > > respected by some other members who do not know me, the issues I am> > > raising also become fraudulent claims which ought to be excluded from> > > agenda. The issues I deem important are felt to be non-issues by those> > > who doubt my credentials. Unless they recognize me as a responsible> > > person, they will not be seriously interested in discussing the issues> > > and views pertinent to crucial problems of Indian astrology. It is,> > > therefore, necessary to bring to light some facts related to my> > > credibility, without which I cannot discuss any issue here andwill be a> > > target of abuses and ridicule by a handful of persons who are ignorant> > > of the importance of issues I raised. Hence, before discussing issues,> > > my credibility must be checked, which is under consistent anddeliberate> > > attack here.> > > > > > > > > > > > I did not want to talk of modern science among astrologers. More,> > > boasting of achievements is against my nature, unless it isnecessary to> > > show something important for the good of everyoneNow I am bound toshow> > > some concrete evidence about my truthfulness. All interestedmembers are> > > requested to read the following webpage, which will clear all doubts> > > about me and about the issues I have raised :> > > > > > > > > > > >> > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s+ Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+ acc\> > > epted+by+CAOS% 2C+IISc> > >> > <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s+ Report%3B+%26+my+Paper+ ac\> > > cepted+by+CAOS% 2C+IISc>> > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not form any opinion in a hurry, the matter is serious, and> > > read the whole page in this link. You may also read another page,which> > > presents evidences about Suryasiddhantic method being forced upon a> > > university through legal means, which compelled the VC to organize> > > conferences for examining my points :> > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials> > > <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials>> > > > > > > > > > > > If someone doubts that I am a fraud to have fabricated theseevidences,> > > he may contact the authorities whose addresses are clearly givenand all> > > well known. The conclusions are :> > > > > > > > > > > > (1) Wold's topmost institutions of modern science (NASA, RoyalSociety,> > > IISc...) recognized my works in weather forecasting and IISc accepted> > > my new approach (new theory) of FORECASTING , although I could not> > > elaborate all features of my theory in a single paper (I have provided> > > the link to this paper too , which contains the summary of my "new" > > > theory and gives concrete evidences in favour of some newdiscoveries by> > > me, which were duly recognized by referees.> > > > > > > > > > > > (2) Topmost astrologers and heads of ALL Sanskrit universities of> > > India unanimously decided, after 2 days of debates, thatSuryasiddhanta> > > must be the basis of all panchangas of India, and recognized the> > > reliability of my free software.> > > > > > > > > > > > (3) Mr Chandra Hari claims to be a scientist, but in spite of my> > > requests could not contact the heads of those scientificestablishments> > > about my supposedly fraudulent claims, and kept on abusing mecalling me> > > a "fraud" due to his jealousy. The fact is "scholars" like Mr Chandra> > > Hari would not get an entry into these high grade scientific> > > establishments which appreciated my works. Even IISc is not free for> > > all, NASA and Royal Society are distant dreams for "scientists"like Mr> > > Chandra Hari. Will Mr Chandra Hari labels all institutions recognizing> > > me as fraudulent , as he did recently !!!> > > > > > > > > > > > (4) Now, after seeing proofs of my soundness, Mr Chandra Hari and some> > > of his associates may start shouting that I am wasting the time of an> > > astrological forum by pointing to scientific topics. But it was Mr> > > Chandra Hari who started claiming to be a "scientist" and on thatcount> > > ordered a fatwa to expel and behead me. Mr Chandra Hari knows nothing> > > about either science or astrology, all his knowledge issuperficial and> > > bookish, based on a fallacious assumption that whatever Westernerswrote> > > about India is irrefutable and brahma-vaakya.> > > > > > > > > > > > I repeat that Mr Chandra Hari is a well educated person ; he knows how> > > to cite from texts (and how to neglect those portions of same texts> > > which does not suit one's biases, many "intellectuals" do so> > > now-a-days). I must add that modern education imparts mere bookish> > > knowledge and not insight. Insight cannot be taught, because it comes> > > from lifelong devotion to any good cause. I did not raise anyfamily and> > > did not join any career in spite of brilliant academic records in both> > > science and literature, just because I wanted all my time to bedevoted> > > to a single cause : pursuit of knowledge of those those things which> > > have lasting value in this transient world. The very fact that Idid not> > > join any paid service anywhere make me a fraud in the eyes ofthose who> > > value worldly recognition more than they value truth. Hence, I have> > > disclosed some of my worldly credentials here, for which beg apology> > > from God, because a monk must never boast of worldly achievements,> > > unless it is necessitated by some higher cause.> > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandra Hari has passed his verdict on me : I am a fraud. Someother> > > members have also said that I am raising bogus issues. If the majority> > > of members here regard me as a fraud raising useless matters, mypresent> > > mail may be treated as my last mail to this forum and themoderator may> > > be requested to cancel my membership. Let me see how a "majority"kills> > > Truth once again, without a fair discussion. It has happened so many> > > times. I do not care for false peoples.> > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > > > > --Vinay Jha> > > > > > =========== =========== =========== ===========> > > > > > P.S. :> > > > > > In my own horoscope, Jupiter is in its moolatrikona with lagneshVenus,> > > and dashamesh Moon is in the house of Dharma making a very strong> > > gajakesari yoga in the service of Dharma and Paraakrama. Moreover,this> > > Jupiter is also lord of 6th house making opponents of Truth alwaysbite> > > dust but not without abusing me falsely, with many other good> > > combinations, such as dharmesh mercury in 5th house and Saturn being> > > highly auspicious by dint of being lord of 4th and 5th houses andhaving> > > a yuti relation with Jupiter and Venus, and Rahu Ketu being intheir own> > > houses. As a result, I cannot be defeated in any free and fair> > > sahaastraartha by bookish scholars in my fields of expertize, they can> > > only silence me by shoutings of an imaginary "majority" of ahandful of> > > persons who do not even form a real majority, or "behead" me as Mr> > > Chandra Hari has incited you twice, or poison me as Socrates was done> > > with, but remember, friends, the killers of Socrates and their views> > > died out and people even forgot their names, but Socrates is stillalive> > > in me and in all of you, although many members here may not see the> > > inner flame within every human heart lit by the deliberate self> > > sacrifice of Socrates. This inner flame is fueled by a rejectionof all> > > dogmatism, bias, incivility, etc etc, which all you already know, but> > > this very flame is dimmed by censorship of those ideas which a person> > > does not know or does not want to know. A person can be killed, but> > > ideas are invincivle and immortal. I live by idealism, subsistingon one> > > meal a day for 11 years and donating all my savings to schools and> > > sadhus, but worldly people live by materialism, which compels them to> > > visualize the grahas of jyotisha as material planets of physical> > > sciences. I have countless proofs in my favour, but here I do notfind a> > > conducive environment to discuss even a single point in detail. I> > > started a topic on tantric astrology which was diverted to wineand sex,> > > and I was therefore compelled to leave that discussion, and now I am> > > told that I am not able to discuss anything about tantic chakras & c.> > > > > > > > > > > > (Only the real bhaktas can defeat me but such a situation can never> > > arise, because I surrender before all real bhaktas without arguing ;> > > arguments are needed among the worldly folks because they do not have> > > any alternative. )> > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ==================> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ==================> > >>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

January 12, 2009

Vinayji,

Please take your own time to prove your point. I hope it will not take long

time.

SKB

--- On Mon, 1/12/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

Re: Which is the Best Mathematical Method

for Predictive Astrology ??

Monday, January 12, 2009, 1:11 AM