Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Dear All,Vinay ji said:==> Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika havenot survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand theintricacies of Indian astronomy. <==Chandra Hari ji said:==> Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak suchnonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. Withthe use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancienttimes, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then wasthe purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with theuse of cowries?<== I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda). Those who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to: Sreenadh%20OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in understanding the system I think: Chandra%20Hari/Vakyakarana.doc Love and regards,Sreenadh , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote:>> > To those who want to know the facts> > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the> ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on> computation of planets.> > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi,> Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in> Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise> computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because> he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in> astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the> assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained the> mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper published> in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on> Yuga system.> > 3.Aryabhata's works excelled all other texts in terms of their accuracy> and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old> age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave results> matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up his> own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata> siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha.> > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later> astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had called> Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of planets> without making actual observations.> > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such> nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the> use of cowries?> > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply> offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided by> this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with> such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing> "manners" with men making false claims and false propaganda.> > chandra hari> > > , "vinayjhaa16"> vinayjhaa16@ wrote:> >> > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different> > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a> > minor issue. let me show it :> >> > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the days> > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value of> > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call> > "new", because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of> > evolution).> >> > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the value> > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1,> > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of> > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga.> >> > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that> > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker> > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga> > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning> > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used> > only for making Tantra and Karana texts.> >> > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of> > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana-maan (revolutions per> > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using> > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all> > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana> > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset> > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results obtained> > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from> > tables on midnight.> >> > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge their> > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in> > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have> > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use> > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of south> > India.> >> > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are famous> > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of> > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions> > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years> > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says :> > "Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ..." which I have already quoted in a> > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not recognize> > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world> > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient Indian> > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before> > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist> > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries.> >> > -VJ> > =========== =========== =========== ===========> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 sreesog jee, I have provided concrete proofs of use of tables in ancient age after that reply of Mr Chandrahari which you are quoting and supporting. If you missed that reply from me, you should read it before refuting me. But if you deliberately ignore the proofs sent by me,as Chandrahari jee ignored, then I cannot help you. Chandrahari jee ignored everything which Burgess ignored. But truth cannot cannot be buried by ignoring. If you are really serious, please find and read that reply from me which Chandrahari jee ignored and you missed. -VJ , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear All, > Vinay ji said: > ==> > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the > intricacies of Indian astronomy. > <== > Chandra Hari ji said: > ==> > Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the > use of cowries? > <== > I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not > know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced > by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar > who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the > individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda). Those > who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of > Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to: > Sreenadh%20\ > OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf > <Sreenadh%2\ > 0OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf%20> > As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think > traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can > provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about > Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical > aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in > understanding the system I think: > Chandra%20H\ > ari/Vakyakarana.doc > <Chandra%20\ > Hari/Vakyakarana.doc%20> > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " chandra_hari18 " > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > To those who want to know the facts > > > > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the > > ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on > > computation of planets. > > > > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi, > > Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in > > Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise > > computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because > > he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in > > astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the > > assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained > the > > mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper > published > > in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on > > Yuga system. > > > > 3.Aryabhata's works excelled all other texts in terms of their > accuracy > > and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old > > age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave > results > > matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up > his > > own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata > > siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha. > > > > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later > > astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had > called > > Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of > planets > > without making actual observations. > > > > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak > such > > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With > > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have > > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient > > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was > > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with > the > > use of cowries? > > > > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply > > offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided > by > > this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with > > such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing > > " manners " with men making false claims and false propaganda. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 " > > vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different > > > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a > > > minor issue. let me show it : > > > > > > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the > days > > > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value > of > > > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call > > > " new " , because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of > > > evolution). > > > > > > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the > value > > > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1, > > > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of > > > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga. > > > > > > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that > > > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker > > > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga > > > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning > > > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used > > > only for making Tantra and Karana texts. > > > > > > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of > > > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana-maan (revolutions per > > > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using > > > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all > > > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana > > > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset > > > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results > obtained > > > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from > > > tables on midnight. > > > > > > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have > > > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by > > > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the > > > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge > their > > > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in > > > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have > > > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use > > > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of > south > > > India. > > > > > > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are > famous > > > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of > > > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions > > > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years > > > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says > : > > > " Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ... " which I have already quoted in a > > > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not > recognize > > > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world > > > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient > Indian > > > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before > > > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist > > > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries. > > > > > > -VJ > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Dear sreenadh jee, Given links not open the files message appear as 'The requested file or directory is not found on the server.' Please recheck it. Thanks, M.S.bohra , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear All, > Vinay ji said: > ==> > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the > intricacies of Indian astronomy. > <== > Chandra Hari ji said: > ==> > Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the > use of cowries? > <== > I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not > know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced > by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar > who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the > individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda). Those > who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of > Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to: > Sreenadh%20\ > OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf > <Sreenadh%2\ > 0OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf%20> > As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think > traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can > provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about > Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical > aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in > understanding the system I think: > Chandra%20H\ > ari/Vakyakarana.doc > <Chandra%20\ > Hari/Vakyakarana.doc%20> > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " chandra_hari18 " > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > To those who want to know the facts > > > > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the > > ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on > > computation of planets. > > > > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi, > > Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in > > Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise > > computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because > > he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in > > astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the > > assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained > the > > mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper > published > > in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on > > Yuga system. > > > > 3.Aryabhata's works excelled all other texts in terms of their > accuracy > > and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old > > age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave > results > > matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up > his > > own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata > > siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha. > > > > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later > > astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had > called > > Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of > planets > > without making actual observations. > > > > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak > such > > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With > > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have > > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient > > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was > > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with > the > > use of cowries? > > > > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply > > offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided > by > > this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with > > such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing > > " manners " with men making false claims and false propaganda. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 " > > vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different > > > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a > > > minor issue. let me show it : > > > > > > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the > days > > > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value > of > > > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call > > > " new " , because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of > > > evolution). > > > > > > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the > value > > > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1, > > > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of > > > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga. > > > > > > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that > > > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker > > > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga > > > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning > > > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used > > > only for making Tantra and Karana texts. > > > > > > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of > > > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana-maan (revolutions per > > > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using > > > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all > > > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana > > > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset > > > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results > obtained > > > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from > > > tables on midnight. > > > > > > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have > > > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by > > > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the > > > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge > their > > > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in > > > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have > > > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use > > > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of > south > > > India. > > > > > > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are > famous > > > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of > > > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions > > > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years > > > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says > : > > > " Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ... " which I have already quoted in a > > > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not > recognize > > > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world > > > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient > Indian > > > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before > > > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist > > > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries. > > > > > > -VJ > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji, I also experienced same problem. Hope you are recuperating after the bout of illness. Take care. warm regards, Col.Chandran--- On Thu, 1/15/09, msbohra62 <msbohra62 wrote: msbohra62 <msbohra62 Re: Use of Tables and Indian tradition Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:31 AM Dear sreenadh jee,Given links not open the files message appear as 'The requested fileor directory is not found on the server.'Please recheck it.Thanks,M.S.bohraancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"<sreesog > wrote:>> Dear All,> Vinay ji said:> ==>> Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> intricacies of Indian astronomy.> <==> Chandra Hari ji said:> ==>> Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such> nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the> use of cowries?> <==> I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not> know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced> by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar> who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the> individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda) . Those> who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of> Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to:>http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 20\> OG/Kawri-Maths. pdf ><http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 2\> 0OG/Kawri-Maths. pdf%20>> As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think> traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can> provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about> Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical> aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in> understanding the system I think:>http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20H\> ari/Vakyakarana. doc ><http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20\> Hari/Vakyakarana. doc%20>> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18"> <chandra_hari18@ > wrote:> >> >> > To those who want to know the facts> >> > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the> > ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on> > computation of planets.> >> > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi,> > Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in> > Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise> > computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because> > he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in> > astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the> > assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained> the> > mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper> published> > in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on> > Yuga system.> >> > 3.Aryabhata' s works excelled all other texts in terms of their> accuracy> > and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old> > age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave> results> > matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up> his> > own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata> > siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha.> >> > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later> > astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had> called> > Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of> planets> > without making actual observations.> >> > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak> such> > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with> the> > use of cowries?> >> > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply> > offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided> by> > this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with> > such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing> > "manners" with men making false claims and false propaganda.> >> > chandra hari> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "vinayjhaa16"> > vinayjhaa16@ wrote:> > >> > > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different> > > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a> > > minor issue. let me show it :> > >> > > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the> days> > > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value> of> > > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call> > > "new", because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of> > > evolution).> > >> > > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the> value> > > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1,> > > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of> > > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga.> > >> > > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that> > > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker> > > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga> > > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning> > > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used> > > only for making Tantra and Karana texts.> > >> > > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of> > > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana- maan (revolutions per> > > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using> > > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all> > > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana> > > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset> > > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results> obtained> > > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from> > > tables on midnight.> > >> > > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge> their> > > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in> > > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have> > > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use> > > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of> south> > > India.> > >> > > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are> famous> > > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of> > > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions> > > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years> > > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says> :> > > "Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ..." which I have already quoted in a> > > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not> recognize> > > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world> > > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient> Indian> > > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before> > > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist> > > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries.> > >> > > -VJ> > > =========== =========== =========== ===========> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Dear Chandran ji and Bohra ji, There were only two links provided in the mail. 1) Link to the file named "Kawri-Maths. pdf " present inside the folder "Sreenadh" in the files section of this group. The link is: Sreenadh%20OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf 2) Link to the file named "Vakyakarana. doc" present inside the folder "Chandra Hari" in the files section of this group. The link is: Chandra%20Hari/Vakyakarana.doc Either use the links or if the links don't work due to any reason, then go to the said folders in the files section of the group and download those files. That is all to it. Note: If you have checked the link, you might have easly identified that they point to the files section of this group itself. :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , skm chandran <colchandran wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > I also experienced same problem. > > Hope you are recuperating after the bout of illness. Take care.> > warm regards,> Col.Chandran> > --- On Thu, 1/15/09, msbohra62 msbohra62 wrote:> > msbohra62 msbohra62 Re: Use of Tables and Indian tradition> > Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:31 AM> > > > > > > Dear sreenadh jee,> > Given links not open the files message appear as 'The requested file> or directory is not found on the server.'> > Please recheck it.> > Thanks,> > M.S.bohra> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ > wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > Vinay ji said:> > ==>> > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > intricacies of Indian astronomy.> > <==> > Chandra Hari ji said:> > ==>> > Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such> > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the> > use of cowries?> > <==> > I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not> > know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced> > by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar> > who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the> > individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda) . Those> > who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of> > Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to:> >> http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 20\> > OG/Kawri-Maths. pdf > >> <http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 2\> > 0OG/Kawri-Maths. pdf%20>> > As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think> > traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can> > provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about> > Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical> > aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in> > understanding the system I think:> >> http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20H\> > ari/Vakyakarana. doc > >> <http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20\> > Hari/Vakyakarana. doc%20>> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18"> > <chandra_hari18@ > wrote:> > >> > >> > > To those who want to know the facts> > >> > > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the> > > ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on> > > computation of planets.> > >> > > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi,> > > Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in> > > Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise> > > computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because> > > he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in> > > astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the> > > assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained> > the> > > mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper> > published> > > in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on> > > Yuga system.> > >> > > 3.Aryabhata' s works excelled all other texts in terms of their> > accuracy> > > and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old> > > age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave> > results> > > matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up> > his> > > own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata> > > siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha.> > >> > > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later> > > astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had> > called> > > Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of> > planets> > > without making actual observations.> > >> > > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak> > such> > > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with> > the> > > use of cowries?> > >> > > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply> > > offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided> > by> > > this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with> > > such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing> > > "manners" with men making false claims and false propaganda.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "vinayjhaa16"> > > vinayjhaa16@ wrote:> > > >> > > > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different> > > > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a> > > > minor issue. let me show it :> > > >> > > > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the> > days> > > > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value> > of> > > > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call> > > > "new", because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of> > > > evolution).> > > >> > > > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the> > value> > > > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1,> > > > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of> > > > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga.> > > >> > > > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that> > > > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker> > > > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga> > > > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning> > > > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used> > > > only for making Tantra and Karana texts.> > > >> > > > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of> > > > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana- maan (revolutions per> > > > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using> > > > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all> > > > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana> > > > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset> > > > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results> > obtained> > > > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from> > > > tables on midnight.> > > >> > > > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > > > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > > > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > > > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge> > their> > > > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in> > > > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have> > > > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use> > > > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of> > south> > > > India.> > > >> > > > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are> > famous> > > > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of> > > > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions> > > > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years> > > > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says> > :> > > > "Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ..." which I have already quoted in a> > > > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not> > recognize> > > > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world> > > > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient> > Indian> > > > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before> > > > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist> > > > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries.> > > >> > > > -VJ> > > > =========== =========== =========== ===========> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Dear Vinay ji, May be you have never witnessed the living tradition of siddhantic astrological calculations without using any tables or books; an unbroken tradition of astronomical computation methodologies that comes down from Vararuchi of 4th century AD to right to this 21st century. You should better go and see those many old Kerala astrology using Kawari Kriya (Kawri Maths) using the memorised Vakyas (mathematical aphorisms) alone. They don't need tables, and please don't forget the fact that, as per indian tradition, apart from actual observation of planets, Use of Vakyas based on a BASE YEAR was the fundamental tool used for ephemeris calculation. If you don't believe - simply just go and see it. If interested study it. We you see the living tradition - all these argumentation will stop. Whether it be Hari or me we are not giving much importance to you 'argument on use of tables etc', because we have witnessed and is witnessing the living tradition of that ancient system, and can easily see the lack of awareness about such a living tradition involved in your argument. So it doesn't matter. Anyway, you can ask to PK Srinivas about this system, and he may answer. It he chose to answer (I am not sure about his expertise in the use of English, and also about his free time and availability), then it would be much informative to all of us I believe. Please don't bother to answer this mail - it is not important. But if you really intent to answer, then please start from the beginning, by answering the questions such as - * What is the base year as you when the Sayana-Nirayna Zodiacs coincided? * What is the Ayanamsa value as per you for this year? * What is the rate of precession you believe is used by Surya Siddhanta? * What is the year length as you believe is used by Surya Siddhanta? * Where in Surya Siddhanta it is told to use 360 Tithi Year to calculate Dasas etc? Please don't come-up with the list of 22 Bija kriya (Samskara) sutras etc which in not included by Bargus etc. I too have a list of 25 Bija kriya (Samskara) sutras which was not included by Burgus or any other book. But the difference is that I know that those quotes are written by the scholar Parameswara. It is even possible that you are using the same quotes without knowing their origin! I don't know - we need to check - can you quote the starting and ending lines of the 22 Bija Kriya lines you have? I will tell you whether I have the same lines and will quote the other lines as well if you want. My major request to you is - please know this audiance if you want to interact with them, and start from where they expect you to start. Otherwise the yelling from roof-tops, bugging the group with too much mails with 'I', 'My' only or 'ChandarHari' only, or 'My software is supreme' mails is not going to help. Personally I am not interested in a software that just uses a different vimsottary year length, that doesn't even provide the planetary position correctly (your planetary position does not have anything to do with reality!), unsure about ayanamsa and zero year, will re-boot my matine numerous times but never will get installed! (I am using Windows 2000). We appreciate that you have a wet paint wiki site in your name, and also that some of your articles are present there. But please don't bug the group with too many links that always points to your site and your software. As a rule this group generally DOES NOT encourage advertising. The home page of the group itself reads - > * Any member advertising................... etc. So please be with the gruop, and keep the discussions within the group in a relaxed mood without too much I,I, My, My etc and share (take and give) knowedge instead of 'forcing' arguments. Hope I have made the point clear. You may ask the question, why not this strong attitude agaist Chandra Hari? It is true that he had used too much abusing instead of replying to your mails (even though with a reason). But his earlier authentic, systematic works and efforts are readly available to us. That generates special regard and reputation - and that is how he becomes an exception to an extend. If you too have done authentic works, if the same is available to us, if we are convinced - then you too may get similar reputation; but that is not the case yet. Love and regards, Sreenadh , "vinayjhaa16" <vinayjhaa16 wrote:>> sreesog jee,> I have provided concrete proofs of use of tables in ancient age after> that reply of Mr Chandrahari which you are quoting and supporting. If> you missed that reply from me, you should read it before refuting me.> But if you deliberately ignore the proofs sent by me,as Chandrahari> jee ignored, then I cannot help you. Chandrahari jee ignored> everything which Burgess ignored. But truth cannot cannot be buried by> ignoring. If you are really serious, please find and read that reply> from me which Chandrahari jee ignored and you missed.> -VJ> > , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > Vinay ji said:> > ==>> > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > intricacies of Indian astronomy.> > <==> > Chandra Hari ji said:> > ==>> > Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such> > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the> > use of cowries?> > <==> > I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not> > know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced> > by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar> > who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the> > individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda). Those> > who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of> > Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to:> >> Sreenadh%20\> > OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf > >> <Sreenadh%2\> > 0OG/Kawri-Maths.pdf%20>> > As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think> > traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can> > provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about> > Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical> > aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in> > understanding the system I think:> >> Chandra%20H\> > ari/Vakyakarana.doc > >> <Chandra%20\> > Hari/Vakyakarana.doc%20>> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "chandra_hari18"> > <chandra_hari18@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > To those who want to know the facts> > >> > > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the> > > ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on> > > computation of planets.> > >> > > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi,> > > Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in> > > Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise> > > computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because> > > he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in> > > astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the> > > assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained> > the> > > mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper> > published> > > in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on> > > Yuga system.> > >> > > 3.Aryabhata's works excelled all other texts in terms of their> > accuracy> > > and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old> > > age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave> > results> > > matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up> > his> > > own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata> > > siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha.> > >> > > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later> > > astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had> > called> > > Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of> > planets> > > without making actual observations.> > >> > > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak> > such> > > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with> > the> > > use of cowries?> > >> > > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply> > > offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided> > by> > > this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with> > > such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing> > > "manners" with men making false claims and false propaganda.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > >> > > , "vinayjhaa16"> > > vinayjhaa16@ wrote:> > > >> > > > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different> > > > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a> > > > minor issue. let me show it :> > > >> > > > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the> > days> > > > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value> > of> > > > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call> > > > "new", because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of> > > > evolution).> > > >> > > > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the> > value> > > > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1,> > > > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of> > > > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga.> > > >> > > > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that> > > > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker> > > > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga> > > > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning> > > > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used> > > > only for making Tantra and Karana texts.> > > >> > > > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of> > > > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana-maan (revolutions per> > > > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using> > > > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all> > > > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana> > > > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset> > > > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results> > obtained> > > > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from> > > > tables on midnight.> > > >> > > > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > > > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > > > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > > > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge> > their> > > > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in> > > > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have> > > > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use> > > > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of> > south> > > > India.> > > >> > > > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are> > famous> > > > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of> > > > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions> > > > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years> > > > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says> > :> > > > "Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ..." which I have already quoted in a> > > > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not> > recognize> > > > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world> > > > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient> > Indian> > > > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before> > > > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist> > > > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries.> > > >> > > > -VJ> > > > =========== =========== =========== ===========> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji, Thanks. Got through. Regards, Col.Chandran--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Sreenadh <sreesog Re: Use of Tables and Indian tradition Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 12:47 PM Dear Chandran ji and Bohra ji, There were only two links provided in the mail. 1) Link to the file named "Kawri-Maths. pdf " present inside the folder "Sreenadh" in the files section of this group. The link is: http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 20OG/Kawri- Maths.pdf 2) Link to the file named "Vakyakarana. doc" present inside the folder "Chandra Hari" in the files section of this group. The link is: http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20Hari/Vakyakara na.doc Either use the links or if the links don't work due to any reason, then go to the said folders in the files section of the group and download those files. That is all to it. Note: If you have checked the link, you might have easly identified that they point to the files section of this group itself. :)Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, skm chandran <colchandran@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > I also experienced same problem. > > Hope you are recuperating after the bout of illness. Take care.> > warm regards,> Col.Chandran> > --- On Thu, 1/15/09, msbohra62 msbohra62@.. . wrote:> > msbohra62 msbohra62@.. .> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Use of Tables and Indian tradition> ancient_indian_ astrology> Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:31 AM> > > > > > > Dear sreenadh jee,> > Given links not open the files message appear as 'The requested file> or directory is not found on the server.'> > Please recheck it.> > Thanks,> > M.S.bohra> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ > wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > Vinay ji said:> > ==>> > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > intricacies of Indian astronomy.> > <==> > Chandra Hari ji said:> > ==>> > Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak such> > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with the> > use of cowries?> > <==> > I support the views of Chandra Hari ji in this. To those who do not> > know about the Vakya Panchanga tradition, Katapayadi system introduced> > by the 4th century scholar Vararuchi, etc I am introducing a scholar> > who is expert in Kawri Maths named - PK Srinivasan from Kerala (the> > individual who started discussion of the chart of Vivekananda) . Those> > who want to get a bigginner's understanding about the age old system of> > Kawri Kriya used by the ancient indian scholers for calculation ref to:> >> http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 20\> > OG/Kawri-Maths. pdf > >> <http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Sreenadh% 2\> > 0OG/Kawri-Maths. pdf%20>> > As far as Vakya Panchanga etc traditions are concerned, I think> > traditional scholers like Satya Narayana Gupta, Sreenivas PK etc can> > provide us with much info. If you are interested to know more about> > Vakya Karana (Calculation of planatary longitudes based on mathamatical> > aphorisms) then the following document can be of some help in> > understanding the system I think:> >> http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20H\> > ari/Vakyakarana. doc > >> <http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Chandra% 20\> > Hari/Vakyakarana. doc%20>> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18"> > <chandra_hari18@ > wrote:> > >> > >> > > To those who want to know the facts> > >> > > 1. Discussion is a beating around the bush taking advantage of the> > > ignorance of the people on the implications of Siddhanta and Tantra on> > > computation of planets.> > >> > > 2. Aryabhatiya even though had its zero mean epoch as Kaliyugadi,> > > Aryabhata had given specific mention of the beginning at Krtayuga in> > > Dasagitika. In fact Aryabhata used a better Yuga model to have precise> > > computations by taking all Yugas as 1/4 of Mahayuga. He did so because> > > he knew that the Yuga concept is of no historical value and is used in> > > astronomy only to derive reasonably accurate mean longitudes from the> > > assumption of super-conjunctions at certain epochs. I have explained> > the> > > mathematics of the Yuga model and mean longitudes in my paper> > published> > > in IJHS and it has been quoted by authorities in their discussion on> > > Yuga system.> > >> > > 3.Aryabhata' s works excelled all other texts in terms of their> > accuracy> > > and taht is why even a critic like Brahmagupta had to write in his old> > > age (680 AD or so) a treatise Khandakhadyaka (karana) which gave> > results> > > matching with Aryardharatra siddhanta. Brahmagupta obviously gave up> > his> > > own Siddhanta which had kalpadi computation in favor of Aryabhata> > > siddhanta based on Ardharatrapaksha.> > >> > > 4. Aryabhata's supreme calibre can be found to be extolled by later> > > astronomers like Lalla, Munjala and Vatesvara etc. Vatesvara had> > called> > > Brahmagupta a manipulator - one who cooked up the revolutions of> > planets> > > without making actual observations.> > >> > > 5. Use of tables is a comparatively later practice. Those who speak> > such> > > nonsense does not know the ABCD of Indian astronomical tradition. With> > > the use of Cowries no tables were required. How many tables could have> > > an astronomer carried in ancient times? Can you imagine in ancient> > > times, a teacher teaching astronomy in terms of Tables? What then was> > > the purpose of byhearting the verses and numbers in Katapayadi with> > the> > > use of cowries?> > >> > > It is not my aim to discuss anything with any fraud. I am simply> > > offering my clarification so that genuine students are not misguided> > by> > > this man of pseudo-scholastic air. I lack manners when dealing with> > > such people. I don't expect any genuine lovers of Jyotihsastra playing> > > "manners" with men making false claims and false propaganda.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "vinayjhaa16"> > > vinayjhaa16@ wrote:> > > >> > > > My short article on Aryabhatta is indeed based on two different> > > > theories, one from midnight and the other from sunrise. But it is a> > > > minor issue. let me show it :> > > >> > > > The crude Suryasiddhanta mentioned in Panchasiddhantika gives the> > days> > > > from mahayuga's beginning as 1577917800 (against the accurate value> > of> > > > 1577917828 mentioned in real Suryasiddhanta which Britishers call> > > > "new", because they wanted to prove that accuracy was a result of> > > > evolution).> > > >> > > > Aryabhatiya uses a value 1577917500 , which is 300 less than the> > value> > > > cited by Varaha Mihira. The ratio of 300 days to 6 hours is 1200:1,> > > > which is equal to the ratio 4320000:3600. The latter is the ratio of> > > > years in a mahayuga to years elapsed since the onset of Kaliyuga.> > > >> > > > Aryabhatiya is a Tantra text. In Ganita Jyotisha, Tantra is that> > > > method of preparing tables for handy reference of a panchanga maker> > > > which gives data from the beginning of previous sub-period, Kaliyuga> > > > in this case. Siddhaanta, on the other hand, computes from beginning> > > > of Creation, and is not used by panchanga-makers. Siddhaanta is used> > > > only for making Tantra and Karana texts.> > > >> > > > While prepering a Tantra manual for panchanga-makers, the author of> > > > Aryabhatiya had to modify the mahayuga-bhagana- maan (revolutions per> > > > mahayuga) so that people could compute from onset of Kaliyuga using> > > > sunrise time, instead of midnight time which is used in all> > > > Siddhaantas. Therefore, he substracted 300 days in mahayuga-ahargana> > > > and added 6 hours in current time as reckoned from Kaliyuga's onset> > > > and not from mahayuga's or Shristi's onset. Thus, the results> > obtained> > > > from tables based on sunrise will be same as those obtained from> > > > tables on midnight.> > > >> > > > Actual computational tables of Aryabhatiya or Panchsiddhantika have> > > > not survived, which is leading to so much confusion created by> > > > self-proclaimed expaerts like Burgess who did not understand the> > > > intricacies of Indian astronomy. Panchanga-makers do not divulge> > their> > > > secrets to others due to business reasons. This secrecy resulted in> > > > loss of ancient tables. But ancient tables of Suryasiddhanta have> > > > survived due to the fact that Suryasiddhanta remained in use> > > > continuously over a wide part of north India and some regions of> > south> > > > India.> > > >> > > > Burgess had an access to these Suryasiddhantic tables which are> > famous> > > > as Makaranda Tables, but Burgess read only the published version of> > > > Benteley. Burgess perhaps did not read the non-mathematical portions> > > > of Makaranda Tables or had no access to them in spite of his 8 years> > > > spent in these endeavours. The first verse of Makaranda Tables says> > :> > > > "Shree Suryasiddhaanta matena ..." which I have already quoted in a> > > > previous message. Unfortunately, followers of Burgess do not> > recognize> > > > the living tradition of India and live in a make-believe world> > > > assuming Burgess to be the final world in the foeld of ancient> > Indian> > > > astronomy. Such persons should read Makaranda Tables in whole before> > > > arguing in favour of Burgess. Makaranda Tables precede the earlist> > > > existing commentary on Suryasiddhanta by 14 centuries.> > > >> > > > -VJ> > > > =========== =========== =========== ===========> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.