Vasya Signs - Logic behind (Edited Conversation)

April 11, 2009

Vasya Signs - Logic behind

Last Updated on Saturday, 11 April 2009 09:45

Written by Sreenadh OG, DW, Vinita, Pundit Arjun

Saturday, 11 April 2009 09:31Source URL: AIA Website: Vasya Signs - Login Behind

[Participants: Sreenadh OG, DW, Vinita, Pundit Arjun] [Editor: Sreenadh OG] Admin Note: Any editor preparing such write-ups based on AIA Group conversations are requested to follow the below guidelines. The participants and editors name should be mentioned at the top of the documentThe

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avoided. Always give the original thread URL as a reference, in the beginning of the document. [Thread URL: /message/3] [This is a conversation record write-up prepared based on a thread happened in AIA . (). Please note that, many points from the original discussion might have been omitted here to make this readable] Sreenadh: As per astrological classics, the following are the Vasya signs. Sign Vasya Sign Aries Leo and Scorpio Taurus Cancer and Libra Gemini Virgo Cancer Scorpio and Sagittarius Leo Libra Virgo Gemini and Pisces Libra Virgo and Capricorn Scorpio Cancer Sagittarius Pisces Capricorn Aquarius and Aries Aquarius Aries Pisces Capricorn What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to understand. For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign then the sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second sign could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is exalted in Taurus. Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled by the same planet Ve. For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the same planet. For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? Scorpio

- Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets debilitated in

Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that represent reptiles -

i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio gets debilitated in Cancer.

So there is a very strong connection between the two signs. Rule

: (3) The sign in which the lord of the first considered sign gets

debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets debilitated in Scorpio) Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of Sagittarius gets exalted in Cancer. For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets debilitated in Leo. For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the same planet Me. Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets debilitated in Piaces. For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated in Virgo. Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets exalted in Libra. For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets debilitated in Cancer. For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled by the same planet Ju. For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are ruled by the same planet Sa. Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted in Capricorn. For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets debilitated in Aries. Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are ruled by the same planet. Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without reason and Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! DW: What

does this posting tell us in terms of interpretation? What can be

learnt from this posting? Is there a spiritual revelation? pl. clarify.

For me vasya rearranged comes to vyasa and savya. Sreenadh: Thanks.

Coming to our subject of discussion, i.e. Vasya Signs- Vasya means,

mutual attraction. The classics talk about signs which have some kind

of mutual attraction. Put in other words, the people born in Vasya

signs (Asc or Moon sign)of each other gets attracted to each other,

either sexual attraction or friendship. Because of this Vasya relation

between the Lagna of the girl and boy. Vasya between the Moon signs of

girl and boy are considered. This concept is normally used while

horoscope matching for marriage. Vasya primarily indicates the

attraction we feel towards a person, just by seeing him/her, even

before knowing his/her abilities and qualities. It is the inherent

quality of the horoscope and the sign in which the person is born is

causing this attraction. The concept of Vasya (Mutual attraction) can

also be used: 1) In Marriage compatibility (This is the traditional use) 2) In selecting your business partner. 3) In selecting your girl friend. 4) In selecting friends etc Of

course we are not selecting friends/business_partners/girl_friends etc

after horoscope matching. But if we have some real relations, we can

check the horoscope to verify that, whether this principle of Vasya is

there at work causing the bond, and helping us to strengthen the

relation. I hope, though simple, having this sound and useful concept

in our wallet of astrological knowledge, would be useful also in

understanding the importance the great seers gave to the concept of

Exaltation and Debilitation. Vinita Kumar: The

subject of astrology excites me but I get very confused about the

basics. Sometimes I think I should just give it up - or I'm too old to

start acquiring this kind of knowledge. Why is it that I miss the big

picture - or have to struggle so much??? But maybe I find all this

struggle fun too - something like trying to solve a difficult puzzle

till I get the solution.

In the same spirit I tried to find the logic behind the Vasya signs and

got even more confused. Applying the 2 rules that Sreenadh mentioned

(and expanding the rule of exaltation to cover debilitation also) I

have the following questions: For

Aries - Leo and Scorpio are the Vasya signs following the 2 rules. But

following the same rules why should Cancer and Capricorn not be VAsya

signs since the ruler of Aries gets debilitated in Cancer and exalted

in Capricorn.{By the same logic, for instance) Aries is the Vasya sign

for Capricorn and Aquarius and Libra is the Vasya sign for Taurus) For any Vasya sign at least 2-3 additional signs meet the rules but they are not the Vasya signs. Why? Sreenadh: This

is one of the mails I was longing to see when I posted that message on

Vasya signs. Congratulations first for logically trying to analyze

and study things in a systematic way. First of all let me clarify

one thing. When I tried to understand the logic behind Vasya signs, I

found not just 3 rules, but 5 rules, and a sign gets accepted as a

Vasya sign if at least according to 2 of those rules that sign becomes

a Vasya sign!!! This well explains the fact why some of the signs are

not considered as Vasya signs as well, even though some relations exist

between them. Yes, you guessed it. The earlier message on Vasya

signs was a simplified version, just indicating only the most important

rules. One more thing, these are NOT the rules that are given in

classics, but the result of our thought, why Vasya relationship is

ascribed to these signs only? Exercise:

There is 5 possible rules that are considered in Vasya sign

determination, and that a sign gets accepted as vasya sign if at least

2 of them supports it) have a try yourself, and who knows we may find

and wonder some more new and interpreting things as well. [Editor:

The answer to this exercise never came up, and it seemed that the

thread died out. But some forwards from other groups and some branching

discussions kept it alive for some more time and helped in new

knowledge imparting] Sreenadh: I

am posting here a message that I have posted on another forum, while

discussing the same. Hope this would generate some valuable discussion

in this forum as well. Here it follows – Vasya

attraction between the Lagna signs or Moon signs is one of the

criterion for determining the mutual attraction between two

individuals. It is NOT the lone criterion for determining the same! The

are other systems that are used for the same purpose such as the one

known as "Rana_Ranee Bhava" compatibility in marriage compatibility,

which also speak about the placement of Lagna lord, 7th lord, Lagna

and Moon Navamsa etc. There is another system called "Rasi vasyam" to

have a primary understanding about the sexual attraction (and

compatibility) between people born on different signs. As you know

there are some Nakshatra based rules as well to do the same. It is due

to the existence of these many authentic rules, which gives prime

importance to different factors that, we consider all of them in

the marriage compatibility (along with other rules to validate the

future incidents in life) and come to a conclusion almost in a

statistical manner!! Yes, I agree, it is not the statistics but the

understanding of the astrologer about the future events in store for

the couple is more important. But the well founded rules like Vasya

really needs consideration, and should be appreciated. The

period of influence for any YOGA in horoscope is determined by DASA and

supporting GOCHARA. YOGA could be 1) Sign based, 2) Bhava based, 3)

Planet based, 4) Sign-Bhava based, 5) Sign-Planet based, 6)

Bhava-Planet based, or 7)Sign-Bhava-Planet based. You can rephrase the

above terminology based on Nakshatra as well. But the Vasya I told is

not a YOGA! It is more related to the basic nature of the sign itself.

I will elaborate little further: Point -1 The nature of a sign is determined based on divisions such as: 1) Kalapurusha (1 fold) 2) The Male-Female classification (2 fold) 3) Chara-Stira-Ubhaya, Srishti-Stiti-Samhara etc (3 fold) 4) Satya-Dwapara-Treta-Kali Yogadi etc (4 fold) 5) Earth-Water-Fire-Air-Sky (Pancha bhootadi)etc (5 fold) etc. Point -2 The

nature of the sign is further clarified based on the following or

similar concepts which fundamentally depends on the underlying concepts

noted as point -1. They are: 1) Rasyadhipatya 2) Exaltation-Debilitation 3) Human-Watery-Reptail-Quadrapad etc Point -3 The concepts that are based on concepts noted under point 1 or point 2 or similar ones. 1) Rasi Vasya and RasiBhava vasya 2) Preeti signs etc etc. Actually

concepts noted under points 2 and 3, which are fundamentally based on

the primary concepts or in turn on the secondary concepts needs to be

pondered more, logically, so as to bringout the essential logic used by

Rishis in designing them. Point -4 All

of these are not YOGAS since the YOGA concept came into existence only

in the horoscope. But here (in Vasya etc) we are actually speaking

about the nature of the sign, rather than the horoscope itself!! I

think the point is clear at least to an extend, and expects more inputs

from the leaned members. [Editor: No response

came for this message and it seemed that either none is interested in

this subject or that nobody is aware of this subject. Then came a

detailed response from Arjun ji causing the thread to branch out to

other areas of knowledge such as Marriage compatibility as well] Pundit Arjun: Firstly

my sincere appreciation of the deep insight given to one factor

considered in matching two charts for compatibility. This reconfirms

the fact that the knowledge of astrology is like a ocean and one birth

is not sufficient to master all. at least I would die at a student

level only.

Dinam, ganam, mahendram, dheergham, yoni, rasi, rasyadhipati, vasyam,

rajju, vedha or dosham, gothram, nakshatram, pakshi, bhootam and others

are all listed for measuring each parameter of compatibility required

in any relation between two individuals. To add to these, manglik

dosham, kaalasarpa dosham, grahana dosham, besides various modern men

researched or invented doshams are all there.

Unfortunately, the various measuring tools mentioned in various

medieval classics have some inherent contradictions. However, in my

personal experience, after studying all these things, when I learnt

Lalkitab and its simplistic one chart based predictive technique, I am

not focusing on these micro level comprehensive analysis based on

various measuring tools. also while stars and planets are existing in nature, signs are mythical in nature.

Under vasya matching we see which Sign is amenable and affable to

another. This is seen both from the boy's sign to girl's sign and also

vice versa. However, two signs of the same planet are not mutually

vasya viz. Aries to Scorpio, Sagittarius to Pisces, Capricorn to Aquarius and Taurus to Libra whereas Gemini and Virgo are mutually vasya. This sounds illogical.

In Sarvartha Chintamani, the Pachakadi measuring system is a simple

tool to predict the relative strength of each planet in a chart both in

relation to other planets as well as houses by categorizing Pachak,

Bodhak, Karak and Vedhak. here also we see some contradictions.

My humble submission is that in astrology there is no one single

measuring tool to come to a conclusive observation on one parameter due

to so many overriding rules. This is where a practicing astrologer if

follows saatvik lifestyle and develops divine intuition, due to the

vaak suddhi and vaak siddhi, the reading, analysis and prediction

become simpler in an unscientific manner. Albeit this sounds illogical

to scientific community, i have been healing and predicting this way.

over and above, we have astrology derived from Hindu mythology. While

according to mythology we treat planets including satellite moon as

gods and worship their personalities, astronomy and science paints them

as balls of some mass. while the science says how moon waxes and wanes,

all Puranas says how moon was cursed with kshaya roga (one modern

researcher attributed AIDS to moon saying kshaya and AIDS both makes

the native lose energy)due to his neglecting of his 27 wives, how the

modern man perceives these contradictions - to see stars

as wives and planets as husbands or just balls of some light. Still the

quest for knowing more continues and we keep reading, knowing and

learning more with continued consistency. May Jupiter's light shine on

all of us. Sreenadh: Thanks

for the good mail. I highly appreciate those sincere thoughts. I feel

that it is unsystematic (i.e. non-classified) view of the concepts

presented, is causing us the trouble in understanding the (actually

well classified!!) ideas put forward by saints and acharyas. I will

clarify:- Let

us approach the first confusion encountered by any one approaching and

trying to use marriage compatibility. You stated it nicely. Quote Dinam, ganam, mahendram, dheergham, yoni, rasi, rasyadhipati, vasyam, rajju, vedha or dosham, gothram, nakshatram, pakshi,bhootam and others are all listed for measuring each parameter of compatibility

required in any relation between two individuals. toadd to these,

manglik dosham, kaalasarpa dosham, grahana dosham, besides various modern man researched or invented doshams are all there. Unfortunately, the various measuring tools mentioned in various medieval classics have some inherent contradictions. Unquote I

agree. It would be the prime view that would be felt by any sincere

person approaching marriage compatibility. But the point is that- The

Acharyas have classified compatibility considerations stated above by

you (dinam, ganam etc..) as ("Agoodha Goodha Bhedena dwidha hi khadana

gunai"): I. Agoodha (Non-hidden) marriage compatibility considerations Eg: Rasi, Rasyadhipa, Vasya, Gana, Mahendra, Yoni, etc...... II. Goodha (Hidden) marriage compatibility considerations Eg:

Drishti (Liking), Mana (Love), Deha (Health and Body), Vidya-Vinaya

(Education), Stanabhijatya (Status & Position), Vaya (Age) etc Now the Non-hidden (Agoodha) marriage compatibility considerations are again classified into four. 1) Sign Based Eg: Rasi, Rasi-vasya, Rasi-Yoni, Rasi-Bhoota, Rasi-Varna etc 2) Sign-lord Based Eg: Rasyadhipa, Rasi-bhava vasya (The logic of which I have described earlier in this forum) etc 3)Star Based Eg: Gana, Dina, Mahendra, Strideerkha, Nakshatra-Yoni etc. 4) Star related (Not important) Eg: Nakshatra-bhoota, Nakshatra-Pakshi, Nakshatra-Mriga, Nakshatra-Linga, Tara-Maitri, Rina-dhana etc. Of

the above four the first 4 are direct "application" of some ancient

concepts in marriage compatibility. (The marriage compatibility system

originated later only compared to those concepts). The compatibility

considerations given as Nakshatra- related are may of still later

application of some Nakshatra related concepts into compatibility, and

many acharyas have told us that they should not be given much

importance. Now comes the considering the star based Doshas. Yes,

except one of them (i.e. Vedha) all of these are star based, and

therefore the importance is to that extent only. 1) Nakshatra-Vedha

: Though the word Nakshatra is there in the name, it is actually a

method for locating star combinations, that fall in the Shashtashtama

(6-8 axis) signs that cause the most trouble. So in essence it

considers Sign and Nakshatra. 2) Nakshatra varga vedha 3) Rajju Dosha etc But

till now, except the general qualities of sign and star, the planetary

placement in horoscope is not considered. So let us consider if the

planetary placement supports/indicates marriage between those 2 people,

by using, 1) Rana-Ranee

Bhava (Structural compatibility between horoscopes) and Now let us

compare the placement of malefic in the horoscope in a 'general'

manner, by using, 2) Papa samya (Mangala dosha is just something comes with in this) Actually

all the systems said above are child's play, and the real ability and

understanding of the astrologer in understanding the horoscope, is used

from here onwards. i.e. Now we have to check for: · Chance for having children · Death/Divorce · Poverty and scope for economic success · Possible Health problems in future · Lesbian/Gay nature of male/female Yes,

All of these together it is popularly known as Jataka Poruta (meaning

'Horoscope Matching') which indicates that this is the most important

considerations in horoscope matching and also that these are to be

looked IN HOROSCOPE rather than in the mere name of sign or star. Now

consider the Agoodha compatibility options as well based on our

understanding of the family, education, status, health etc of male and

female and their family! The relatives of bride and groom will do this,

even if the astrologer is not doing it. So we don't have to worry much

about it. This

is the well-classified system put forward by the Acharyas. Can we call

it un-scientific, or unsystematic?! We follow it or not, the situations

allow us to do it or not, etc are all our trouble and the Acharyas

should not be blamed for that!! Quote This

is where a practicing astrologer if follows saatvik lifestyle and

develops divine intuition, due to the vaak suddhi and vaak siddhi, the

reading, analysis and prediction become simpler Unquote Yes,

yes, all this is necessary, and I agree completely. But would like to

add that, we should add it up to the above (systematic understanding of

the system put forward by the Acharyas) for the best results. Quote Stars and planets are existing in nature, signs are mythical in nature. Unquote I disagree!! Why? I will explain. 1) Stars:

They are also mythical (following your terminology) since we are

talking about stellar divisions and NOT Yoga taras. Our star (i.e.

Nakshatra) is 'an area in sky', a stellar division, covering 13 deg 20

min. Thus become mythological due to the same reason you ascribed to

rasi. 2) Rasis (Signs) : They are also mythological (following your terminology) since they represent 'an area in sky' covering 30 deg. 3) Planets:

They are also mythological, since in astrology, we are not talking

about the planets that physical entities having no special qualities

and significance 9we ascribe to them in astrology). But instead we are

talking about Sun that is Father and Atma karaka, Moon that is mother

and water, Mars that is warrior etc!!! If not mythological how will you

understand it scientifically!! I will better agree upon using the word

'concept' or 'hypothetical construct' rather than the word

'mythological'. In astrology 1) Signs 2) Nakshatras 3) Planets 4)

Bhavas(Houses) become concepts!!! Actually these are the basic

'constructs' in astrology (similar to 'Vata-Pita-Kapha' in Ayurveda and

'Vital force' in naturopathy) and that is why significance is assigned

to these 4 categories only. I think you will support this view which

helps us much, in understanding the logical system called astrology,

and understanding it as a system that fits into 'holistic approach'. Quote Over and above, we have astrology derived from Hindu mythology. While according to mythology we treat planets including satellite moon as gods and worship their personalities, astronomy and science paints them as balls of some mass. while the science says how moon waxes and wanes, all puranas says how moon was cursed with kshaya roga due to his neglecting of his 27 wives, how the modern man perceives these contradictions - to see stars as wives and planets as husbands or just balls of some light. Unquote Here

also the problem is with understanding the views of ancient Rishi's in

there own light, I mean the system provided by they themselves. I will

explain: In their holistic approach to subjects under study, the

ancient Rishis from the period of Vedas itself, uses approaches such as- 1) Adhi-Bhowtika 2) Adhi-Daivika etc. Ascribing

human nature or thinking that a divine god/goddess with a particular

shape/body/qualities is present within 'each and every material' (They

left nothing! It was a system of study!) is a method utilized by the

saints in study!! But, yes, I should agree that, this lead to too many

misunderstandings and confusions. But we should also understand that,

this system of study is beautifully utilized in astrology which negates

this disqualification ascribed to it. Just see how beautifully we can

picturize things, when we see- Sun - as a king, with a strong and matured body Moon - as a queen, with a motherly nature Venus - as the beautiful lady Gulika - as the snake etc !! The same system is in use, when we see - Aries - as Ram Taurus - as Ox etc as well!! It

is better to have a closer look at the logical systems used by the

Rishis, such as Adhi-Bhowtika, Adhi-Daivika etc and also to have a

closer look at the holistic system of study, before jumping into

conclusions. It

is easy to ascribe/accept everything as part of mythology, but I would

add that, it does not help much in understanding the systematic

approach of our ancient seers. Understanding the system they

followed, in their own terms, is what we lacked till date, and better

than late to save our ancient knowledge in good shape, let us try to do

that. PS: It

is the bigger picture, and the exact understanding of outlines of the

subject under scrutiny is of importance in any study. That makes our