Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 dear sreenadh ji very good informativ post with lot of ideas . All vedic texts and allied litterature uses various months and yudadhi concepts in varying way and it may b reflecting the usage of those in the purticular context or happening till the day of composition .Also over yrs may b some interpolations by way of some missings even possible .Here i wonder abt the creed of ppl who criticise everything ( but they says they want re surrection of vedic culture ) and says i read everything frm cover to cover and then says their own misconcepts as the base of arguemnts and says it is wat rishies meant by it . But a serious sincere seeker has his own troubles ,limitations and even confusions .where as for them everything is easy so long as it is easy to misintrepret and if some one mentions some thing contradictory by quoting texts they will ask question to that poor soul in the manner to date the text or ask who is who etc and then shower all kinds of abuses on vedas and holy litterature and as if it is ur duty to clear their ignorence for them it is a bliss and blessing I know the main reason ,who ever supported western scholars only got awards ,rewards and even any funding ,who ever go strictly with traditions are always discarded by General public ,our Govtmnts and even all western medias so we hav to fight with this slumdog millinaire's too in our pursuit for clearing many ambiguities and they r paid and well equipped where as we spend our own hard earned wealth and time and result may b suffering in personal life too thanks and keep it up rgrds sunil nair , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Vedic Month Names> - Written by Sreenadh OG> Vedic Months> Types of Months> > Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of> unnamed months.> > The named month sequences are - Tapa, Magha, Mesha, Aruna and Baja.> > The un-named month sequences are – The Nakshatra month and the> Nityayoga month> > The month sequence can be –> > 1. Sidereal Lunar : like the Nakshtra month (Lunar)> 2. Luni-solar : like the Chaitradi months (Lunar)> 3. Tropical Solar : like the western solar tropical months> (Solar)> 4. Sidereal Solar : like the Meshadi months (Solar)> > These are the only four categories month names can belong to. While> speaking about months it is essential that we understand about what type> of month we are dealing with. Same is true for Vedic months as well.> > [Please note that the Gregorian solar months like January, February,> March etc that we use today do not belong to any of the above four> scientific categories – but just fixed name sequences for dividing> 365 days only.]> > > > Adhimasa and Mala masa> > Another general concept of importance is Adhimasa (extra month) and> Malamasa (impure month). They don't mean the same. Extra month is> always connected with Lunar months and Malamasa with Solar months.> > Extra Month (Adhi masa): Tithi or Nakshtra based Lunar months and the> Lunar year would be always small compared to the solar year. To adjust> the difference and make them tune with each other usually an extra Lunar> month is considered. This extra lunar month is termed `adhi> masa' (extra month).> > > > Impure Month (mala masa): If start of more than one lunar month occurs> with in a single solar month, then that solar month would be treated as> impure month (mala masa). For example in Amanta system (month start with> Sukla paksha pradipada, i.e. with first day after new moon), if two> Amavasi (no moon or new moon) occur with in a single solar month, then> that solar month would be considered as impure. In Pournamanta system> (month start with krishna paksha pradipada, i.e. with first day after> full moon) if two Paurnami (full moon) occur with in a single solar> month, then that solar month would be considered as impure (mala masa).> > Please note that we would be speaking about extra month (Adhimasa) only> in case of Lunar months and impure month (Malamasa) only in case of> Solar months.> > > > List of Months> > Firstly, without considering whether these months are sidereal lunar,> sidereal solar, tropical solar, lunar (luni-solar) – the vedic named> months are listed below –> > > > > > Sl> > 1.Chitradi> > 2.Madhuvadi> > 3.Arunadi> > 4.Bajadi> > 5.Meshadi> > 1> > Chaitra> > Madhu> > Aruna> > Baja> > Mesha> > 2> > Vaisakha> > Madhav> > Arunaraja> > Prasava> > Vrishabha> > 3> > Jyeshta> > Sukra> > Pundareeka> > Apija> > Mithuna> > 4> > Ashadha> > Suchi> > Viswajit> > Kratu> > Karkita> > 5> > Sravana> > Nabha> > Abhijit> > Vasu> > Simha> > 6> > Bhadrapada> > Nabhasya> > Ardra> > Aharpnati> > Kanya> > 7> > Asvina> > Isha> > Pinvaman> > Mugdhahra> > Tula> > 8> > Kartika> > Urja> > Annavan> > Vainamsina> > Vrischika> > 9> > Margaseersha> > Saha> > Rasavan> > Atyayana> > Dhanu> > 10> > Pausha> > Sahasya> > Iravan> > Bhauvana> > Makara> > 11> > Magha> > Tapa> > Sarvoshadha> > Bhuvanapati> > Kumbha> > 12> > Phalguna> > Tapasya> > Sambhara> > Adhipalaka> > Meena> > Extra/Impure Month> > Adhikamasa> > Maliplucha> > Mahasvan> > Prajapati> > Malamasa> > I will discuss these 5 unique vedic month sequences in detail as and> when required. Out of these five sequences due to the presence of extra> months - such as Adhikamasa in Chaitradi sequence and Mahasvan in> Arunadi sequence - it is evident that most possibly they are Lunar month> sequences. Similarly due to the presence of impure months – such as> Maliplucha in Madhavadi sequence and Malamasa in Meshadi sequence it is> evident that most possibly they are solar months. There is a good> possibility that Bajadi months are also solar in nature as evident from> the use of other names of Sun for naming months such as Kratu, Vasu etc.> Thus we have 5 Vedic month sequences such as –> > 1) Chaitradi (Lunar)> > 2) Madhavadi (Solar)> > 3) Arunadi (Lunar)> > 4) Bajadi (Solar)> > 5) Meshadi (Solar)> > But this vague understanding won't be enough if we want to approach> this subject in a scholarly way. So I will try to go further in our> effort to understand these Vedic month sequences.> > > > Differentiating Lunar and Solar Months> > Secondly, our effort should be to identify which of them are Lunar> (sidereal lunar, luni-solar) and which are solar (sidereal solar,> tropical solar). Two criteria we can use are –> > * If the month names uses Nakshatra names then definitely they> are Lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) in nature> * If the month sequence provides a special name for extra month> then definitely it is a lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) month> and not solar month.> > The Chaitradi month names clearly indicate that they are connected to> Nakshtras such as Chaitra, Vaisakha, Jyeshta etc and so definitely Lunar> (sidereal lunar or luni-solar). Similarly the Arunadi month names do> refer to Nakshatras such as Abhijit and Ardra and so most possibly> Lunar. To substantiate the argument, Chaitradi sequence do have an extra> month with the name Adhika masa or Adhi masa (meaning `extra> month') and Arunadi sequence do have an extra month with the name> Mahasvan (meaning `bright' or `great'). Therefore it is> certain that both Chaitradi and Arunadi sequences where Lunar (sidereal> lunar or luni-solar) in nature.> Lunar Months> Differentiating Sidereal Lunar and Luni-solar Months> > How would we identify whether a lunar month is, sidereal lunar or> luni-solar? This can usually be identified based on the definition of> the month itself. Further it should be noted that the popular Vedic> months are luni-solar in nature – since they are based on Tithi and> Full Moon or New Moon in various Nakshatras.> > Sidereal Lunar Months = 27 Nakshatras (27 1/3 solar days)> > Sidereal Lunar Year = 324 Nakshatra days = 27.333 x 12 = 327 solar days> > To make such months in tune with the Solar year of 365.2425 days more> than one extra month (Adhimasa) per year would be required in this case;> and the extra month should contain 365 – 327 = 38 days.> > Is it possible that the Arunadi sequence was Sidereal Lunar in nature -> especially because of the fact that the extra month is named Mahasvan> (meaning `bright' or `great')? Was this naming done> since the extra month was more than 38 days long? No - this do not seem> to be true. Why? If Arunadi months were sidereal lunar in nature they> will never get names which refer to Sun. The month names Aruna, Arunaja,> Iravan all refer to Sun. For this it is evident that, Arunadi month> sequence is luni-solar in nature. It is well known that the most popular> Vedic month sequence, the Madhavadi moths is also luni-solar in nature.> > Sidereal Lunar Months = 30 Tithis (29.5 solar days)> > Sidereal Lunar Year = 29.5 x 12 = 354 solar days> > To make such months in tune with the Solar year of 365.2425 days more> than one extra month (Adhimasa) per three years would be required in> this case; and the extra month should contain (365 – 354 = 11 days> per year) x 3 years = 33 days.> > This was the system of extra month followed in Chaitradi sequence and> Arunadi sequence.> > > > Chaitradi Months> > Let us understand what period of the year these months refer to> currently –> > Sl> > Chitradi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Condition: Full Moon in the Nakshatra -> > 1> > Chaitra> > Mar 21 – Apr 21> > Chitra> > 2> > Vaisakha> > Apr 21 – May 21> > Visakha> > 3> > Jyeshta> > May 21 – Jun 21> > Jyeshta> > 4> > Ashadha> > Jun 21 – Jul 21> > Purva Ashadha> > 5> > Sravana> > Jul 21 – Aug 21> > Sravana> > 6> > Bhadrapada> > Aug 21 – Sep 21> > Purva Bhadrapada> > 7> > Asvina> > Sep 21 – Oct 21> > Asvina> > 8> > Kartika> > Oct 21 – Nov 21> > Kartika> > 9> > Margaseersha> > Nov 21 – Dec 21> > Mrigaseersha> > 10> > Pausha> > Dec 21 – Jan 21> > Pushya> > 11> > Magha> > Jan 21 – Feb 21> > Magha> > 12> > Phalguna> > Feb 21 – Mar 21> > Uttara Phalguna> > When connected with seasons, usually for Chaitradi months the year (and> month counting) could start from either Chaitra (i.e. from vernal> equinox) or from Magha (i.e. from winter solstice). The other two> possible starting points such as Asvina (i.e. from autumnal equinox) and> Ashadha (i.e. from summer solstice) are not much known to have been in> use. But still many Vedic evidences points to the fact that, even when> the month names used remains the same, the year beginning could be in> any season – depending on locality, culture, religion, festivals and> so on.> > > > Arunadi Months> > Let us understand the period represented by Arunadi months also in the> same way. We get these month names from Tatireeya brahmana quote that> reads as follows –> > Aruno arunarajaH pundareeko visvajit abhijit ardraH> > Pinvamano annavan rasavan iravan sarvoshadhaH sambharo mahasvan> > (Taitireeya brahmana 1-10-1)> > [(The months are) Aruna, Arunaraja, Pundareeka, Viswajit, Abhijit,> Ardra, Pinnvamano, Annavan, Rasavan, Iravan, Sarvoshadha, Sambhara and> Mahasvan]> > > > But please note that 13 month names are listed here, indicating that the> sage is speaking about Lunar months. The listing starts with Aruna> indicating that the year started with this month itself. If we> `assume' that the year beginning was in tune with `vernal> equinox' (this is not certain or necessary, but only an assumption)> then the months would represent approximately the following period given> in the table below. It is also not certain, what were the pre-conditions> used to derive the span of the month. If we again `assume' that> Arunadi were months similar to Chaitradi, calculated based on the> presence of Full Moon within the month then possibly the situation was> as follows –> > > > Sl> > Arunadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Condition: Full Moon in the Nakshatra -> > 1> > Aruna> > Mar 21 – Apr 21> > Hasta> > 2> > Arunaraja> > Apr 21 – May 21> > Swati> > 3> > Pundareeka> > May 21 – Jun 21> > Anuradha> > 4> > Viswajit> > Jun 21 – Jul 21> > Mula> > 5> > Abhijit> > Jul 21 – Aug 21> > Abhijit> > 6> > Ardra> > Aug 21 – Sep 21> > Satabhishak> > 7> > Pinvaman> > Sep 21 – Oct 21> > Revati> > 8> > Annavan> > Oct 21 – Nov 21> > Bharani> > 9> > Rasavan> > Nov 21 – Dec 21> > Rohini> > 10> > Iravan> > Dec 21 – Jan 21> > Punarvasu> > 11> > Sarvoshadha> > Jan 21 – Feb 21> > Aslesha> > 12> > Sambhara> > Feb 21 – Mar 21> > Purva Phalguna> > Please note that the above listing is just an assumption and may not be> the truth. With the Nakshatra names Abhijit and Ardra coming so close to> each other, I am not even certain that these are Lunar month names. It> is also possible that these are Solar months names derived based on some> other condition. A some what common thread of – many month names> indicating Vishnu, many month names indicating some Vedic yagas, many> month indicating some connection with seasons etc are trends that are> visible in this month naming. But no single, solid, common clue which> can be used to decipher the secret of these month names is available. It> seems that here the month division is done based on the bright Nakshatra> Abhijit. It should be considered that in Nakshatra divisions (of 13 deg> 20 min) as well all the corresponding Yoga Taras (bright stars of the> division) falls within the Nakshatra division, only when Abhijit star is> considered as the starting point. Certainly as some point in the Vedic> past Abhijit star might have been made use of both in the Nakshatra> division as well as in Month division. The special name "Brahma> Rasi" (Sign of creation) given to Makara Rasi (Capricorn Sign) in> Mahabharata also serves as a supporting factor here. Please note that> Abhijit star is at the beginning of Makara Rasi (Capricorn sign).> Considering these scenarios it is even possible that these month names> are sidereal in nature. The fact is that – except the following two> points we are not sure about any thing related to this month sequence.> The points we are sure about are –> > * Arunadi month names were in use in the Vedic period> * Arunadi month sequence starts with the month of Aruna –> i.e. the year used to begin with the month of Aruna.> Solar Months> Differentiating Tropical Solar and Sidereal Solar Months> > Even if we identify that some month sequences are Solar (due the absence> of extra months, due to the presence of impure months etc), how can we> differentiate between the two types of Solar months – i.e. Tropical> Solar and Sidereal Solar? The only arguments that we can take help from> are as follows –> > * The tropical solar months will have names that reflect the> seasons which they represent. i.e. The meaning of the words used as> month names will point to the seasons they represent.> * For tropical month names - at all periods of time, people> would be referring to particular months with a particular season > with the same name itself.> * The sidereal month names will have names that associate them> with the stellar or Nakshatra belt.> * Just like the description about the movement of equinoxes or> solstices through Nakshtras, descriptions about the movement of> equinoxes or solstices through Sidereal Months (Signs) would be > available.> > It is in the absence of clear pointers as stated above that people fall> into the confusion of whether to consider some month sequences given in> Vedas as Tropical Solar or Sidereal Solar. The same happened with> Madhuvadi months and Bajadi months as well, even every one were certain> that Meshadi months are sidereal solar months in nature.> > > > The possible candidates for Solar Vedic months are Madhuvadi, Bajadi and> Meshadi months. Let us discuss them one by one.> > > > Madhuvadi> > Some people consider these month sequences as tropical and some as> sidereal. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean> seems to have originated from a single Taitireeya Brahmnama quote, which> states that "during that period spring season started with Madhu> masa". Some argue that one Rk Vedanga Jyotisha quote also> substantiates the above statement. The quote reads as follows –> > Madhuscha madhavascha vasantikavritu, Suktrascha suchischa graishmavritu> > Nabhascha nabhasyascha varshikavritu, Ishaschorjascha saradavritu> > Sahascha sahasyascha haimantikavritu, Tapascha tapasyascha saisiravritu> > (Taitireeya brahmana 4-4-11)> > [(During the period of Taitireeya brahmana) Vasanta ritu is composed of> Madhu and Madhava, Greeshma ritu is composed of Sukra and Suchi, Varsha> ritu is composed of Nabha and Nabhasya, Sarad ritu is composed of Isha> and Urja, Hemanta ritu is composed of Saha and Sahasya, Sisira ritu is> composed of Tapa and Tapasya]> > Now this quote can have two type of interpretation – one by> considering these Vedic months as tropical solar and other by> considering them as sidereal solar. The only possible third> interpretation would be of treating this quote as erroneous. Since it is> one of the rare evidences related Madhuvadi month sequences we have, let> us accept this quote as true and sincere and try to know the possible> interpretations.> > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Tropical Solar months> > The popular interpretation is of treating Madhuvadi months as Tropical> solar. This interpretation would mean that, what ever the time period be> – Madhu and Madhava would be the months of Vasanta ritu; Sukra and> Suchi would be the months of Greeshma ritu and so on. But then again> there are two opinions about where the vasanta ritu starts – as per> one tradition vernal equinox comes at the beginning of Vasanta ritu, and> as per the other it is in the middle of vasanta ritu. The first one is> popular in India, while is the second is popular in the west.> > > > a) Vernal equinox at the beginning of Vasanta Ritu> > Sl> > Madhuvadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Season> > 1> > Madhu> > Mar 21 – Apr 21> > Vasanta> > > > 2> > Madhav> > Apr 21 – May 21> > 3> > Sukra> > May 21 – Jun 21> > Greeshma> > 4> > Suchi> > Jun 21 – Jul 21> > 5> > Nabha> > Jul 21 – Aug 21> > Varsha> > 6> > Nabhasya> > Aug 21 – Sep 21> > 7> > Isha> > Sep 21 – Oct 21> > Sarat> > 8> > Urja> > Oct 21 – Nov 21> > 9> > Saha> > Nov 21 – Dec 21> > Hemanata> > 10> > Sahasya> > Dec 21 – Jan 21> > 11> > Tapa> > Jan 21 – Feb 21> > Sisira> > 12> > Tapasya> > Feb 21 – Mar 21> > > > b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu> > Sl> > Madhuvadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Season> > 1> > Madhu> > Mar 5 – Apr 5> > Vasanta> > > > 2> > Madhav> > Apr 5 – May 5> > 3> > Sukra> > May 5 – Jun 5> > Greeshma> > 4> > Suchi> > Jun 5 – Jul 5> > 5> > Nabha> > Jul 5 – Aug 5> > Varsha> > 6> > Nabhasya> > Aug 5 – Sep 5> > 7> > Isha> > Sep 5 – Oct 5> > Sarat> > 8> > Urja> > Oct 5 – Nov 5> > 9> > Saha> > Nov 5 – Dec 5> > Hemanata> > 10> > Sahasya> > Dec 5 – Jan 5> > 11> > Tapa> > Jan 5 – Feb 5> > Sisira> > 12> > Tapasya> > Feb 21 – Mar 21> > Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select any> one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the> popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not> seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points> –> > * If we accept this system we will have to accept that –> > * Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and> Tapasya mean hot)> * Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky> seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky')> * Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot> seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic> holds good for all month names.> * Even though throughout the sequence there is only one month> name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will> have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead> Madhu masa.> > These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of> considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the> popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes> that these months are Tropical solar in nature.> > [[but then again question remains – Why then the BC 1400 text Rk> Vedanga Jyotisha text also refer to the month of Tapa and tell as that> it is in tune with Vedic Magha? Does it not point to the fact that> Madhuvadi months are Tropical Solar itself? I don't have an answer> to this question as of now – and so move forward, in order to> consider the other possibilities.]]> > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months> > What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the> above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that period> the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would be> helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, provided> we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu,> Madhava etc.> > But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the first> reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons with> the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves> through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different> months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any such> evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references.> > 1) Linga Purana> > (Source:> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madh\> u+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0\> & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#\> PPA39,M1> <http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=mad\> hu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz\> 0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3\> #PPA39,M1> ) Ref to page 39.> > The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana –> > "According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are> months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of> Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and> Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta"> > > > 2) Taitireeya Brahmana> > According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of> Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja of> Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira.> > > > The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from> Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same> seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in> nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months!> > > > Now I am equipped with the following info –> > * These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only> month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning)> * These Vedic months are sidereal in nature> > > > With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption> –> > * Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - > Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal> location. That should be the very reason for listing these months> starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual> starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been > Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence –> > > > Sl> > Ishadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Tuladi> > 1> > Isha> > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > Tula> > 2> > Urja> > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > Virschika> > 3> > Saha> > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > Dhanu> > 4> > Sahasya> > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > Makara> > 5> > Tapa> > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > Kumbha> > 6> > Tapasya> > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > Meena> > 7> > Madhu> > Apr 14 – May 14> > Mesha> > 8> > Madhav> > May 14 – Jun 14> > Vrishabha> > 9> > Sukra> > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > Mithuna> > 10> > Suchi> > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > Karkitaka> > 11> > Nabha> > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > Simha> > 12> > Nabhasya> > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > Kanya> > > > So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence that> was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, Madhuvadi> sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table.> > Sl> > Madhuvadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Meshadi> > 1> > Madhu> > Apr 14 – May 14> > Mesha> > 2> > Madhav> > May 14 – Jun 14> > Vrishabha> > 3> > Sukra> > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > Mithuna> > 4> > Suchi> > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > Karkitaka> > 5> > Nabha> > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > Simha> > 6> > Nabhasya> > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > Kanya> > 7> > Isha> > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > Tula> > 8> > Urja> > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > Virschika> > 9> > Saha> > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > Dhanu> > 10> > Sahasya> > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > Makara> > 11> > Tapa> > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > Kumbha> > 12> > Tapasya> > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > Meena> > > > Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually I> am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I> think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due> to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was in> use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have been> in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra> sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared a> common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these> references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or> falsehood of my assumption.> > > > Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana> > Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the> Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have?> > Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half of> first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that> period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280).> True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was> composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our derived> information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with> modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic> texts as well.> > > > What about the period referred to by Linga Purana?> > Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava> is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun> 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view,> Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu –> possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox> to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is> referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin> than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better> understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal> months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident> from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of> astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of> later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva traditional> teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the> traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by> Linga Purana –> > > > Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two> apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on the> Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the> seasons are given below.> > a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya and> pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala and> Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. Uraga> and Vasuki.> > b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and> Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and> Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka and> one other (name not mentioned)> > c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus and> Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha> and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and> Shankhapala> > d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja> an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji> and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an> Iravan.> > e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and> Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and> Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and> Karkataka.> > f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, Jamadagni> and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the> Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and Yakshopeta;> the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara.> > (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself)> > Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and> the knowledge it shares is always like that!> > > > (To be continued……)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Vedic Month Names - Written by Sreenadh OG Vedic Months Types of Months Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of unnamed months. The named month sequences are - Chaitra, Aruna, Baja, Madhu and Mesha, The un-named month sequences are – The Nakshatra month and the Nityayoga month The month sequence can be – Sidereal Lunar : like the Nakshtra month (Lunar)Luni-solar : like the Chaitradi months (Lunar)Tropical Solar : like the western solar tropical months (Solar)Sidereal Solar : like the Meshadi months (Solar) These are the only four categories month names can belong to. While speaking about months it is essential that we understand about what type of month we are dealing with. Same is true for Vedic months as well. [Please note that the Gregorian solar months like January, February, March etc that we use today do not belong to any of the above four scientific categories – but just fixed name sequences for dividing 365 days only.] Adhimasa and Mala masa Another general concept of importance is Adhimasa (extra month) and Malamasa (impure month). They don't mean the same. Extra month is always connected with Lunar months and Malamasa with Solar months. Extra Month (Adhi masa): Tithi or Nakshtra based Lunar months and the Lunar year would be always small compared to the solar year. To adjust the difference and make them tune with each other usually an extra Lunar month is considered. This extra lunar month is termed `adhi masa' (extra month). Impure Month (mala masa): If start of more than one lunar month occurs with in a single solar month, then that solar month would be treated as impure month (mala masa). For example in Amanta system (month start with Sukla paksha pradipada, i.e. with first day after new moon), if two Amavasi (no moon or new moon) occur with in a single solar month, then that solar month would be considered as impure. In Pournamanta system (month start with krishna paksha pradipada, i.e. with first day after full moon) if two Paurnami (full moon) occur with in a single solar month, then that solar month would be considered as impure (mala masa). Please note that we would be speaking about extra month (Adhimasa) only in case of Lunar months and impure month (Malamasa) only in case of Solar months. List of Months Firstly, without considering whether these months are sidereal lunar, sidereal solar, tropical solar, lunar (luni-solar) – the vedic named months are listed below – Sl 1.Chitradi 2.Madhuvadi 3.Arunadi 4.Bajadi 5.Meshadi 1 Chaitra Madhu Aruna Baja Mesha 2 Vaisakha Madhav Arunaraja Prasava Vrishabha 3 Jyeshta Sukra Pundareeka Apija Mithuna 4 Ashadha Suchi Viswajit Kratu Karkita 5 Sravana Nabha Abhijit Vasu Simha 6 Bhadrapada Nabhasya Ardra Aharpnati Kanya 7 Asvina Isha Pinvaman Mugdhahra Tula 8 Kartika Urja Annavan Vainamsina Vrischika 9 Margaseersha Saha Rasavan Atyayana Dhanu 10 Pausha Sahasya Iravan Bhauvana Makara 11 Magha Tapa Sarvoshadha Bhuvanapati Kumbha 12 Phalguna Tapasya Sambhara Adhipalaka Meena Extra/Impure Month Adhikamasa Maliplucha Mahasvan Prajapati Malamasa I will discuss these 5 unique vedic month sequences in detail as and when required. Out of these five sequences due to the presence of extra months - such as Adhikamasa in Chaitradi sequence and Mahasvan in Arunadi sequence - it is evident that most possibly they are Lunar month sequences. Similarly due to the presence of impure months – such as Maliplucha in Madhavadi sequence and Malamasa in Meshadi sequence it is evident that most possibly they are solar months. There is a good possibility that Bajadi months are also solar in nature as evident from the use of other names of Sun for naming months such as Kratu, Vasu etc. It is also possible that they are Lunar in nature as evident from the month name `Baja meaning Vaja (= horse, Aswini Nakshatra). Thus we have 5 Vedic month sequences such as – 1) Chaitradi (Lunar) – month names based on Nakshatra position of Moon 2) Arunadi (Lunar) – month names based on Nakshatra position of Moon 3) Bajadi (Lunar) – month names based on Nakshatra position of Sun 4) Madhavadi (Solar Sidereal) 5) Meshadi (Solar Sidereal) Thus possibly the Vedic people used only two types of months – first, Lunar (i.e. Luni-solar, Tithi based) months and second, Solar Sidereal months. It seems that no Tropical month sequence was in use in Vedic period, even though seasons were in extensive use. This vague understanding won't be enough if we want to approach this subject in a scholarly way. So I will try to go further in our effort to understand these Vedic month sequences. Differentiating Lunar and Solar Months Secondly, our effort should be to identify which of them are Lunar (sidereal lunar, luni-solar) and which are solar (sidereal solar, tropical solar). Two criteria we can use are – If the month names uses Nakshatra names then definitely they are Lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) in natureIf the month sequence provides a special name for extra month then definitely it is a lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) month and not solar month. The Chaitradi month names clearly indicate that they are connected to Nakshtras such as Chaitra, Vaisakha, Jyeshta etc and so definitely Lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar). Similarly the Arunadi month names do refer to Nakshatras such as Abhijit and Ardra and so most possibly Lunar. To substantiate the argument, Chaitradi sequence do have an extra month with the name Adhika masa or Adhi masa (meaning `extra month') and Arunadi sequence do have an extra month with the name Mahasvan (meaning `bright' or `great'). Therefore it is certain that both Chaitradi and Arunadi sequences where Lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) in nature. Lunar Months Differentiating Sidereal Lunar and Luni-solar Months How would we identify whether a lunar month is, sidereal lunar or luni-solar? This can usually be identified based on the definition of the month itself. Further it should be noted that the popular Vedic months are luni-solar in nature – since they are based on Tithi and Full Moon or New Moon in various Nakshatras. Sidereal Lunar Months = 27 Nakshatras (27 1/3 solar days) Sidereal Lunar Year = 324 Nakshatra days = 27.333 x 12 = 327 solar days To make such months in tune with the Solar year of 365.2425 days more than one extra month (Adhimasa) per year would be required in this case; and the extra month should contain 365 – 327 = 38 days. Is it possible that the Arunadi sequence was Sidereal Lunar in nature - especially because of the fact that the extra month is named Mahasvan (meaning `bright' or `great')? Was this naming done since the extra month was more than 38 days long? No - this do not seem to be true. Why? If Arunadi months were sidereal lunar in nature they will never get names which refer to Sun. The month names Aruna, Arunaja, Iravan all refer to Sun. For this it is evident that, Arunadi month sequence is luni-solar in nature. It is well known that the most popular Vedic month sequence, the Madhavadi moths is also luni-solar in nature. Sidereal Lunar Months = 30 Tithis (29.5 solar days) Sidereal Lunar Year = 29.5 x 12 = 354 solar days To make such months in tune with the Solar year of 365.2425 days more than one extra month (Adhimasa) per three years would be required in this case; and the extra month should contain (365 – 354 = 11 days per year) x 3 years = 33 days. This was the system of extra month followed in Chaitradi sequence and Arunadi sequence. Chaitradi Months Let us understand what period of the year these months refer to currently – Sl Chitradi Gregorian Date (approx) Condition: Full Moon in the Nakshatra - 1 Chaitra Mar 21 – Apr 21 Chitra 2 Vaisakha Apr 21 – May 21 Visakha 3 Jyeshta May 21 – Jun 21 Jyeshta 4 Ashadha Jun 21 – Jul 21 Purva Ashadha 5 Sravana Jul 21 – Aug 21 Sravana 6 Bhadrapada Aug 21 – Sep 21 Purva Bhadrapada 7 Asvina Sep 21 – Oct 21 Asvina 8 Kartika Oct 21 – Nov 21 Kartika 9 Margaseersha Nov 21 – Dec 21 Mrigaseersha 10 Pausha Dec 21 – Jan 21 Pushya 11 Magha Jan 21 – Feb 21 Magha 12 Phalguna Feb 21 – Mar 21 Uttara Phalguna When connected with seasons, usually for Chaitradi months the year (and month counting) could start from either Chaitra (i.e. from vernal equinox) or from Magha (i.e. from winter solstice). The other two possible starting points such as Asvina (i.e. from autumnal equinox) and Ashadha (i.e. from summer solstice) are not much known to have been in use. But still many Vedic evidences points to the fact that, even when the month names used remains the same, the year beginning could be in any season – depending on locality, culture, religion, festivals and so on. Arunadi Months Let us understand the period represented by Arunadi months also in the same way. We get these month names from Tatireeya brahmana quote that reads as follows – Aruno arunarajaH pundareeko visvajit abhijit ardraH Pinvamano annavan rasavan iravan sarvoshadhaH sambharo mahasvan (Taitireeya brahmana 1-10-1) [(The months are) Aruna, Arunaraja, Pundareeka, Viswajit, Abhijit, Ardra, Pinnvamano, Annavan, Rasavan, Iravan, Sarvoshadha, Sambhara and Mahasvan] But please note that 13 month names are listed here, indicating that the sage is speaking about Lunar months. The listing starts with Aruna indicating that the year started with this month itself. If we `assume' that the year beginning was in tune with `vernal equinox' (this is not certain or necessary, but only an assumption) then the months would represent approximately the following period given in the table below. It is also not certain, what were the pre-conditions used to derive the span of the month. If we again `assume' that Arunadi were months similar to Chaitradi, calculated based on the presence of Full Moon within the month then possibly the situation was as follows – Sl Arunadi Gregorian Date (approx) Condition: Full Moon in the Nakshatra - 1 Aruna Mar 21 – Apr 21 Hasta 2 Arunaraja Apr 21 – May 21 Swati 3 Pundareeka May 21 – Jun 21 Anuradha 4 Viswajit Jun 21 – Jul 21 Mula 5 Abhijit Jul 21 – Aug 21 Abhijit 6 Ardra Aug 21 – Sep 21 Satabhishak 7 Pinvaman Sep 21 – Oct 21 Revati 8 Annavan Oct 21 – Nov 21 Bharani 9 Rasavan Nov 21 – Dec 21 Rohini 10 Iravan Dec 21 – Jan 21 Punarvasu 11 Sarvoshadha Jan 21 – Feb 21 Aslesha 12 Sambhara Feb 21 – Mar 21 Purva Phalguna Please note that the above listing is just an assumption and may not be the truth. With the Nakshatra names Abhijit and Ardra coming so close to each other, I am not even certain that these are Lunar month names. It is also possible that these are Solar months names derived based on some other condition. A some what common thread of – many month names indicating Vishnu, many month names indicating some Vedic yagas, many month indicating some connection with seasons etc are trends that are visible in this month naming. But no single, solid, common clue which can be used to decipher the secret of these month names is available. It seems that here the month division is done based on the bright Nakshatra Abhijit. It should be considered that in Nakshatra divisions (of 13 deg 20 min) as well all the corresponding Yoga Taras (bright stars of the division) falls within the Nakshatra division, only when Abhijit star is considered as the starting point. Certainly as some point in the Vedic past Abhijit star might have been made use of both in the Nakshatra division as well as in Month division. The special name "Brahma Rasi" (Sign of creation) given to Makara Rasi (Capricorn Sign) in Mahabharata also serves as a supporting factor here. Please note that Abhijit star is at the beginning of Makara Rasi (Capricorn sign). Considering these scenarios it is even possible that these month names are sidereal in nature. The fact is that – except the following two points we are not sure about any thing related to this month sequence. The points we are sure about are – Arunadi month names were in use in the Vedic periodArunadi month sequence starts with the month of Aruna – i.e. the year used to begin with the month of Aruna. Bajadi The 13th month in Bajadi sequence is termed `Prajapati' (ruler of the people). This term do not provide any clue to understand whether this 13th month was an `extra month' (lunar) or an `impure month' (solar). As mentioned earlier, it is only the presence of words such as Kratu, Vasu etc with the same meaning as `Sun' that indicate that these month names could be Solar in nature. If these are solar months then, `Prajapati' should be the `impure month' (mala masa). Even if it is assumed that Bajadi months are solar, the question remains – was this Bajadi months sidereal solar or tropical solar in nature? But is it right even to assume that Bajadi months are solar – can't they be lunar? Even the starting month name `Baja' (Vaja=horse=Aswini Nakahstra) indicate that these month names could be lunar in nature. If so then, `Prajapati' should be the `extra month' (adhi masa). To improve our understanding, in an effort get rid of the confusion let us try to look more closely on these month names. After looking at the meaning of the words used as month names, I feel more in tune with considering Bajadi as Lunar months, but for which month naming is done based on the position of Sun in some Nakshatra. This complexity must be a result of some ancient effort to correlate both Lunar and Sidereal solar months. The Bajadi month names with possible word meanings and notes are given below - Sl Bajadi Notes 1 Baja Baja means `Vaja' (horse). Aswini Nakshatra. Possibly points to Sun in Aswini. 2 Prasava Birth, thrown tree, cut, cruelty, fruit, wonder. Sun in Krittika. 3 Apija Sun in Mrigasira?. The lunar month of Jyeshta and sidereal month Mithuna as per Sanskrit dictionary. Apija means `the one which took re-birth', the one who took birth later; younger one. 4 Kratu Sun in Pushya? Lunar month of Ashadha as per Sanskrit dictionary. Yaga, Vishnu, one among Saptarshis, praise, worship 5 Vasu Sun in Magha? Sun, Fire, Rays, Siva, Kubera (millionaire), One of the daughters of Daksha (27 Nakshatras are considered as daughters of Daksha Prajapati), money, gold. 6 Aharpnati Sun in Uttara Phalguni? The one that is composed of days (i.e. year). The one which cannot be divided. Year. The one that cannot be taken away. Lord of the day (Sun) 7 Mugdhahra Sun in Chitra? The one with beautiful days. Dumb, handsome, pure. 8 Vainamsina Sun in Vaisakha? The vessel used take Ghee in Homa. The one who cause destruction. (Is it due to Sun's debilitation in Libra?) 9 Atyayana Sun in Jyeshta? The one which cause destruction, loss and sadness. Maleficial. 10 Bhauvana Sun in Purva Ashadha? Viswakarma. Bhu or Bhuvana - one among the three – viz. Bhur (Earth), Bhuva (Atmosphere), Swa (Sky). Bhuvana – world or earth. Bhauvana – the one connected to world or earth; worldly or earthly. 11 Bhuvanapati Sun in Sravana? Lord of people – Leader. Lord of the atmosphere. 12 Adhipalaka Sun in Purva Bhadrapada? The one with ultimate power. The ultimate soul – Paramatma. 13 Prajapati Extra month (Adhikamasa). Brahma, Vishnu, Siva. King, Viswakarma, Yaga, Linga. The above study gives us the feeling that the month names are given based on the Nakshatra position of Sun, even though the above months are Lunar in nature. From the Apija-Jyeshta mapping found in Sanskrit dictionaries, it seems that these months can be directly mapped to the Chaitradi Lunar months as follows - Sl Bajadi Gregorian Date (approx) Chaitradi 1 Baja Mar 21 – Apr 21 Chaitra 2 Prasava Apr 21 – May 21 Vaisakha 3 Apija May 21 – Jun 21 Jyeshta 4 Kratu Jun 21 – Jul 21 Ashadha 5 Vasu Jul 21 – Aug 21 Sravana 6 Aharpnati Aug 21 – Sep 21 Bhadrapada 7 Mugdhahra Sep 21 – Oct 21 Asvina 8 Vainamsina Oct 21 – Nov 21 Kartika 9 Atyayana Nov 21 – Dec 21 Margaseersha 10 Bhauvana Dec 21 – Jan 21 Pausha 11 Bhuvanapati Jan 21 – Feb 21 Magha 12 Adhipalaka Feb 21 – Mar 21 Phalguna 13 Prajapati Once in 3 years Adhikamasa Thus it is clear that the both Chaitradi and Bajadi months are Lunar in nature with the difference that Chaitra is named so based on the position of Full Moon in Chitra Nakshatra, where as Baja is named so (for the same month) based on the position of Sun in Aswini (and Full Moon in Chitra itself). Thus Chaitra and Baja mean the same except for the fact that the month entry condition differ for both of them. Possibly – The Lunar month Chaitra starts with suklapaksha pratipada (and Full Moon falls in the middle of the month in Chitra nakshatra)The Lunar month Baja starts with the entry of Sun into Aswini Nakshatra (and Full Moon happening somewhere opposite, either in Chitra or swati nakshtra) This is only a learned guess, I am taking based on the limited info available about Bajadi month names and not a conclusion arrived at based on solid facts. So keep it only as a base for further study and investigation about these month names. Solar Months Differentiating Tropical Solar and Sidereal Solar Months Even if we identify that some month sequences are Solar (due the absence of extra months, due to the presence of impure months etc), how can we differentiate between the two types of Solar months – i.e. Tropical Solar and Sidereal Solar? The only arguments that we can take help from are as follows – The tropical solar months will have names that reflect the seasons which they represent. i.e. The meaning of the words used as month names will point to the seasons they represent. For tropical month names - at all periods of time, people would be referring to particular months with a particular season with the same name itself.The sidereal month names will have names that associate them with the stellar or Nakshatra belt. Just like the description about the movement of equinoxes or solstices through Nakshtras, descriptions about the movement of equinoxes or solstices through Sidereal Months (Signs) would be available. It is in the absence of clear pointers as stated above that people fall into the confusion of whether to consider some month sequences given in Vedas as Tropical Solar or Sidereal Solar. The same happened with Madhuvadi months and Bajadi months as well, even every one were certain that Meshadi months are sidereal solar months in nature. The possible candidates for Solar Vedic months are Madhuvadi, Bajadi and Meshadi months. Let us discuss them one by one. Madhuvadi Some people consider these month sequences as tropical and some as sidereal. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have originated from a single Taitireeya Brahmnama quote, which states that "during that period spring season started with Madhu masa". Some argue that one Rk Vedanga Jyotisha quote also substantiates the above statement. The quote reads as follows – Madhuscha madhavascha vasantikavritu, Suktrascha suchischa graishmavritu Nabhascha nabhasyascha varshikavritu, Ishaschorjascha saradavritu Sahascha sahasyascha haimantikavritu, Tapascha tapasyascha saisiravritu (Taitireeya brahmana 4-4-11) [(During the period of Taitireeya brahmana) Vasanta ritu is composed of Madhu and Madhava, Greeshma ritu is composed of Sukra and Suchi, Varsha ritu is composed of Nabha and Nabhasya, Sarad ritu is composed of Isha and Urja, Hemanta ritu is composed of Saha and Sahasya, Sisira ritu is composed of Tapa and Tapasya] Now this quote can have two type of interpretation – one by considering these Vedic months as tropical solar and other by considering them as sidereal solar. The only possible third interpretation would be of treating this quote as erroneous. Since it is one of the rare evidences related Madhuvadi month sequences we have, let us accept this quote as true and sincere and try to know the possible interpretations. Interpreting Madhuvadi as Tropical Solar months The popular interpretation is of treating Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar. This interpretation would mean that, what ever the time period be – Madhu and Madhava would be the months of Vasanta ritu; Sukra and Suchi would be the months of Greeshma ritu and so on. But then again there are two opinions about where the vasanta ritu starts – as per one tradition vernal equinox comes at the beginning of Vasanta ritu, and as per the other it is in the middle of vasanta ritu. The first one is popular in India, while is the second is popular in the west. a) Vernal equinox at the beginning of Vasanta Ritu Sl Madhuvadi Gregorian Date (approx) Season 1 Madhu Mar 21 – Apr 21 Vasanta 2 Madhav Apr 21 – May 21 3 Sukra May 21 – Jun 21 Greeshma 4 Suchi Jun 21 – Jul 21 5 Nabha Jul 21 – Aug 21 Varsha 6 Nabhasya Aug 21 – Sep 21 7 Isha Sep 21 – Oct 21 Sarat 8 Urja Oct 21 – Nov 21 9 Saha Nov 21 – Dec 21 Hemanata 10 Sahasya Dec 21 – Jan 21 11 Tapa Jan 21 – Feb 21 Sisira 12 Tapasya Feb 21 – Mar 21 b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu Sl Madhuvadi Gregorian Date (approx) Season 1 Madhu Mar 5 – Apr 5 Vasanta 2 Madhav Apr 5 – May 5 3 Sukra May 5 – Jun 5 Greeshma 4 Suchi Jun 5 – Jul 5 5 Nabha Jul 5 – Aug 5 Varsha 6 Nabhasya Aug 5 – Sep 5 7 Isha Sep 5 – Oct 5 Sarat 8 Urja Oct 5 – Nov 5 9 Saha Nov 5 – Dec 5 Hemanata 10 Sahasya Dec 5 – Jan 5 11 Tapa Jan 5 – Feb 5 Sisira 12 Tapasya Feb 5 – Mar 5 Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select any one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points – If we accept this system we will have to accept that –Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and Tapasya mean hot)Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky')Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic holds good for all month names. Even though throughout the sequence there is only one month name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead Madhu masa. These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes that these months are Tropical solar in nature. Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that period the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would be helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, provided we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu, Madhava etc. But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the first reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons with the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any such evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references. 1) Linga Purana (Source: http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madhu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#PPA39,M1) Ref to page 39. The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana – "According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta" 2) Taitireeya Brahmana According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja of Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira. The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months! Now I am equipped with the following info – These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning) These Vedic months are sidereal in nature With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption – Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal location. That should be the very reason for listing these months starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence – Sl Ishadi Gregorian Date (approx) Tuladi 1 Isha Oct 14 – Nov 14 Tula 2 Urja Nov 14 – Dec 14 Virschika 3 Saha Dec 14 – Jan 14 Dhanu 4 Sahasya Jan 14 – Feb 14 Makara 5 Tapa Feb 14 – Mar 14 Kumbha 6 Tapasya Mar 14 – Apr 14 Meena 7 Madhu Apr 14 – May 14 Mesha 8 Madhav May 14 – Jun 14 Vrishabha 9 Sukra Jun 14 – Jul 14 Mithuna 10 Suchi Jul 14 – Aug 14 Karkitaka 11 Nabha Aug 14 – Sep 14 Simha 12 Nabhasya Sep 14 – Oct 14 Kanya So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence that was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, Madhuvadi sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table. Sl Madhuvadi Gregorian Date (approx) Meshadi 1 Madhu Apr 14 – May 14 Mesha 2 Madhav May 14 – Jun 14 Vrishabha 3 Sukra Jun 14 – Jul 14 Mithuna 4 Suchi Jul 14 – Aug 14 Karkitaka 5 Nabha Aug 14 – Sep 14 Simha 6 Nabhasya Sep 14 – Oct 14 Kanya 7 Isha Oct 14 – Nov 14 Tula 8 Urja Nov 14 – Dec 14 Virschika 9 Saha Dec 14 – Jan 14 Dhanu 10 Sahasya Jan 14 – Feb 14 Makara 11 Tapa Feb 14 – Mar 14 Kumbha 12 Tapasya Mar 14 – Apr 14 Meena Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually I am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was in use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have been in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared a common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or falsehood of my assumption. Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have? Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half of first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280). True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our derived information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic texts as well. What about the period referred to by Linga Purana? Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view, Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu – possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva traditional teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by Linga Purana – Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on the Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the seasons are given below. a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya and pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala and Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. Uraga and Vasuki. b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka and one other (name not mentioned) c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus and Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and Shankhapala d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an Iravan. e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and Karkataka. f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, Jamadagni and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and Yakshopeta; the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara. (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself) Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and the knowledge it shares is always like that! Rk Vedanga Jyotisha and a secret encoded With this much clear understanding about Madhuvadi Vedic months, let us turn to the people who argue in favor of tropical solar months, quoting the following – Swarakramete somarkau yada sarkam savasavau Syat tadadi yugam maghascha tapa suklo(a)yanam hyudak (Verse 6 Vedanga jyotish) [When the sun and the moon rise together in Dhanistha Nakshatra, then the five year yuga, Maagha, Tapa, Sukla pakshya and Uttarayana start together] This statement is absolutely true for the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha period of BC 1400. But still it does not prove that Madhuvadi months are Tropical but only substantiate the argument that Tapa is a sidereal month in tune with Makara. Actually this quote even gives us a clue to deny all arguments in favor of Vedic tropical months itself, and to clarify the luni-solar (Chaitradi, Arunadi) and Sidereal (Madhuvadi, Aswinyadi, Meshadi) base of the Vedic calendar system! How? I will explain. When we say that - "Equinox traverse through Nakshatras" what we mean? Do we mean that the "The starting point of Nakshatras change with the movement of vernal equinox" or that "The position of Equinox change but Nakshatras remain fixed"? Ofcourse we know that it is the second - i.e. The Nakshatras remain fixed (27 Nakshatras having 13 deg 28 min each), and the equinox traverse through them gradually" - right? I know that you will not disagree on the fact that based on equinoxes and solstices seasons can be measured. Now if I say - Seasons (represented by seasons or equinox) started with Vasanta Ritu in Madhu Masa what will you interpret? In the absence of any other poof regarding whether Madhu Masa is sidereal solar or tropical solar, you may have two choices - 1) Consider that "the starting point of Months change with the movement of vernal equinox" (The erroneous argument in the case of Nakshatras as mentioned earlier!) 2) Consider that "The position of Equinox change but Moths remain fixed"! (The correct argument in the case of Nakshatras as exemplified earlier!) Now in presence of the proof from Linga Purana to show that `Seasons move through Madhuvadi months' we are left with no other choice but to accept the truth regarding Vedic Nakshatras and Madhuvadi months– they both are sidereal in nature. Enough of our time already wasted by many erroneously trying to prove that Maghuvadi vedic months are tropical solar (or some fools even coin a new tern `tropical lunar'!) – a view supported neither by Vedas nor by logic. So what do you say - whether this Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc are sidereal solar or tropical solar? After all these proofs as supporting arguments, do we have a choice, except to accept that Madhuvadi are sidereal in nature? By providing the info that winter solstice was at Dhanishta Nakshatra (and thus that it was moving through Nakshatras), Rk Vedanga Jyotisha is providing us with a clear clue for the fact that many systems it speak about is of sidereal in nature. The same is true for sidereal lunar Aswinyadi Nakshatras, and the same is true for Madhuvadi sidereal solar vedic month sequence. Meshadi There are many proofs available to state that just like the various other month names sequences, Meshadi month names were also in extensive use during Vedic period itself. Actually it is be less popularity of Madhu-Madhavadi months, and the systematic approach of connecting sidereal month names with stellar constellations visible in sky that made caused the popularity of Meshadi month names. In the same way Chaitradi month names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Moon), Meshadi month names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Sun). This is the very reason for both Chaitradi Lunar months and Meshadi Solar Sidereal months becoming much popular than any other system in the course of time – it was just the survival of the best and the fittest system. Sl Meshadi Gregorian Date (approx) Madhuvadi 1 Mesha Apr 14 – May 14 Madhu 2 Vrishabha May 14 – Jun 14 Madhav 3 Mithuna Jun 14 – Jul 14 Sukra 4 Karkitaka Jul 14 – Aug 14 Suchi 5 Simha Aug 14 – Sep 14 Nabha 6 Kanya Sep 14 – Oct 14 Nabhasya 7 Tula Oct 14 – Nov 14 Isha 8 Virschika Nov 14 – Dec 14 Urja 9 Dhanu Dec 14 – Jan 14 Saha 10 Makara Jan 14 – Feb 14 Sahasya 11 Kumbha Feb 14 – Mar 14 Tapa 12 Meena Mar 14 – Apr 14 Tapasya Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month names in Vedic period is given below – 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It reads as follows - Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) [Take the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign), ....................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. That proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga Jyotisha period. 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach the 11th sloka. It reads – Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun (Rk Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11) Please notice the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern LAGNA; from the eastern RISING SIGN) "Lagna" means, "Raseenam Udayo Lagna" (The SIGN rising in the east is termed LAGNA). 3) Take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote that reads - "Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The Vasanta Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the period of time and geographical location)] 4) Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings such as - "Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam" etc etc. 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows – Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi; Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) - then that month is known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the unclean month)] This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in existence and use during Vedic period. 6) If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs in all of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous other Puranas. Other type of Months Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were ascribed to them. Conclusion In this article I tried to discuss the various month name sequences used in Vedic period, and tried to decipher the nature of those months in detail. The general understanding arrived at is that – only Lunar (luni-solar) and Solar Sidereal months were in used during Vedic period in India and no tropical month sequences were in use in Vedic period in India In other words all tropical month sequences are imported and not all Indian or Vedic in nature. The Kaulians who argue in favor of existence of Tropical month names in Vedas are totally baseless and lack even the basic understanding of month name sequences used in Vedas. - 0 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 (Continued from previous mail..............) 12 Tapasya Feb 21 – Mar 21 b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu Sl Madhuvadi Gregorian Date (approx) Season 1 Madhu Mar 5 – Apr 5 Vasanta 2 Madhav Apr 5 – May 5 3 Sukra May 5 – Jun 5 Greeshma 4 Suchi Jun 5 – Jul 5 5 Nabha Jul 5 – Aug 5 Varsha 6 Nabhasya Aug 5 – Sep 5 7 Isha Sep 5 – Oct 5 Sarat 8 Urja Oct 5 – Nov 5 9 Saha Nov 5 – Dec 5 Hemanata 10 Sahasya Dec 5 – Jan 5 11 Tapa Jan 5 – Feb 5 Sisira 12 Tapasya Feb 5 – Mar 5 Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select any one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points – If we accept this system we will have to accept that –Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and Tapasya mean hot)Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky')Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic holds good for all month names. Even though throughout the sequence there is only one month name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead Madhu masa. These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes that these months are Tropical solar in nature. Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that period the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would be helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, provided we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu, Madhava etc. But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the first reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons with the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any such evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references. 1) Linga Purana (Source: http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madhu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#PPA39,M1) Ref to page 39. The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana – "According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta" 2) Taitireeya Brahmana According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja of Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira. The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months! Now I am equipped with the following info – These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning) These Vedic months are sidereal in nature With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption – Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal location. That should be the very reason for listing these months starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence – Sl Ishadi Gregorian Date (approx) Tuladi 1 Isha Oct 14 – Nov 14 Tula 2 Urja Nov 14 – Dec 14 Virschika 3 Saha Dec 14 – Jan 14 Dhanu 4 Sahasya Jan 14 – Feb 14 Makara 5 Tapa Feb 14 – Mar 14 Kumbha 6 Tapasya Mar 14 – Apr 14 Meena 7 Madhu Apr 14 – May 14 Mesha 8 Madhav May 14 – Jun 14 Vrishabha 9 Sukra Jun 14 – Jul 14 Mithuna 10 Suchi Jul 14 – Aug 14 Karkitaka 11 Nabha Aug 14 – Sep 14 Simha 12 Nabhasya Sep 14 – Oct 14 Kanya So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence that was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, Madhuvadi sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table. Sl Madhuvadi Gregorian Date (approx) Meshadi 1 Madhu Apr 14 – May 14 Mesha 2 Madhav May 14 – Jun 14 Vrishabha 3 Sukra Jun 14 – Jul 14 Mithuna 4 Suchi Jul 14 – Aug 14 Karkitaka 5 Nabha Aug 14 – Sep 14 Simha 6 Nabhasya Sep 14 – Oct 14 Kanya 7 Isha Oct 14 – Nov 14 Tula 8 Urja Nov 14 – Dec 14 Virschika 9 Saha Dec 14 – Jan 14 Dhanu 10 Sahasya Jan 14 – Feb 14 Makara 11 Tapa Feb 14 – Mar 14 Kumbha 12 Tapasya Mar 14 – Apr 14 Meena Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually I am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was in use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have been in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared a common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or falsehood of my assumption. Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have? Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half of first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280). True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our derived information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic texts as well. What about the period referred to by Linga Purana? Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view, Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu – possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva traditional teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by Linga Purana – Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on the Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the seasons are given below. a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya and pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala and Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. Uraga and Vasuki. b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka and one other (name not mentioned) c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus and Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and Shankhapala d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an Iravan. e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and Karkataka. f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, Jamadagni and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and Yakshopeta; the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara. (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself) Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and the knowledge it shares is always like that! Rk Vedanga Jyotisha and a secret encoded With this much clear understanding about Madhuvadi Vedic months, let us turn to the people who argue in favor of tropical solar months, quoting the following – Swarakramete somarkau yada sarkam savasavau Syat tadadi yugam maghascha tapa suklo(a)yanam hyudak (Verse 6 Vedanga jyotish) [When the sun and the moon rise together in Dhanistha Nakshatra, then the five year yuga, Maagha, Tapa, Sukla pakshya and Uttarayana start together] This statement is absolutely true for the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha period of BC 1400. But still it does not prove that Madhuvadi months are Tropical but only substantiate the argument that Tapa is a sidereal month in tune with Makara. Actually this quote even gives us a clue to deny all arguments in favor of Vedic tropical months itself, and to clarify the luni-solar (Chaitradi, Arunadi) and Sidereal (Madhuvadi, Aswinyadi, Meshadi) base of the Vedic calendar system! How? I will explain. When we say that - "Equinox traverse through Nakshatras" what we mean? Do we mean that the "The starting point of Nakshatras change with the movement of vernal equinox" or that "The position of Equinox change but Nakshatras remain fixed"? Ofcourse we know that it is the second - i.e. The Nakshatras remain fixed (27 Nakshatras having 13 deg 28 min each), and the equinox traverse through them gradually" - right? I know that you will not disagree on the fact that based on equinoxes and solstices seasons can be measured. Now if I say - Seasons (represented by seasons or equinox) started with Vasanta Ritu in Madhu Masa what will you interpret? In the absence of any other poof regarding whether Madhu Masa is sidereal solar or tropical solar, you may have two choices - 1) Consider that "the starting point of Months change with the movement of vernal equinox" (The erroneous argument in the case of Nakshatras as mentioned earlier!) 2) Consider that "The position of Equinox change but Moths remain fixed"! (The correct argument in the case of Nakshatras as exemplified earlier!) Now in presence of the proof from Linga Purana to show that `Seasons move through Madhuvadi months' we are left with no other choice but to accept the truth regarding Vedic Nakshatras and Madhuvadi months– they both are sidereal in nature. Enough of our time already wasted by many erroneously trying to prove that Maghuvadi vedic months are tropical solar (or some fools even coin a new tern `tropical lunar'!) – a view supported neither by Vedas nor by logic. So what do you say - whether this Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc are sidereal solar or tropical solar? After all these proofs as supporting arguments, do we have a choice, except to accept that Madhuvadi are sidereal in nature? By providing the info that winter solstice was at Dhanishta Nakshatra (and thus that it was moving through Nakshatras), Rk Vedanga Jyotisha is providing us with a clear clue for the fact that many systems it speak about is of sidereal in nature. The same is true for sidereal lunar Aswinyadi Nakshatras, and the same is true for Madhuvadi sidereal solar vedic month sequence. Meshadi There are many proofs available to state that just like the various other month names sequences, Meshadi month names were also in extensive use during Vedic period itself. Actually it is be less popularity of Madhu-Madhavadi months, and the systematic approach of connecting sidereal month names with stellar constellations visible in sky that made caused the popularity of Meshadi month names. In the same way Chaitradi month names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Moon), Meshadi month names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Sun). This is the very reason for both Chaitradi Lunar months and Meshadi Solar Sidereal months becoming much popular than any other system in the course of time – it was just the survival of the best and the fittest system. Sl Meshadi Gregorian Date (approx) Madhuvadi 1 Mesha Apr 14 – May 14 Madhu 2 Vrishabha May 14 – Jun 14 Madhav 3 Mithuna Jun 14 – Jul 14 Sukra 4 Karkitaka Jul 14 – Aug 14 Suchi 5 Simha Aug 14 – Sep 14 Nabha 6 Kanya Sep 14 – Oct 14 Nabhasya 7 Tula Oct 14 – Nov 14 Isha 8 Virschika Nov 14 – Dec 14 Urja 9 Dhanu Dec 14 – Jan 14 Saha 10 Makara Jan 14 – Feb 14 Sahasya 11 Kumbha Feb 14 – Mar 14 Tapa 12 Meena Mar 14 – Apr 14 Tapasya Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month names in Vedic period is given below – 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It reads as follows - Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) [Take the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign), ....................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. That proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga Jyotisha period. 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach the 11th sloka. It reads – Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun (Rk Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11) Please notice the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern LAGNA; from the eastern RISING SIGN) "Lagna" means, "Raseenam Udayo Lagna" (The SIGN rising in the east is termed LAGNA). 3) Take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote that reads - "Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The Vasanta Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the period of time and geographical location)] 4) Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings such as - "Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam" etc etc. 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows – Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi; Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) - then that month is known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the unclean month)] This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in existence and use during Vedic period. 6) If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs in all of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous other Puranas. Other type of Months Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were ascribed to them. Conclusion In this article I tried to discuss the various month name sequences used in Vedic period, and tried to decipher the nature of those months in detail. The general understanding arrived at is that – only Lunar (luni-solar) and Solar Sidereal months were in used during Vedic period in India and no tropical month sequences were in use in Vedic period in India In other words all tropical month sequences are imported and not all Indian or Vedic in nature. The Kaulians who argue in favor of existence of Tropical month names in Vedas are totally baseless and lack even the basic understanding of month name sequences used in Vedas. - 0 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 dear sreenadh ji very good excellent work indeed ,This has blown out all of the so called calender reformists arguemnts ( who uses it as cover to proselyte hindus saying all the astrological knowledge got frm other culture by infucing inferiority complex and same time getting support frm some religious hardlines who is ignorent of all this concepts and hidden agenda is total destruction of full hindu culture ) arguemtns against there is no rasi concept in jyothisha ,there is no predictiv astrology or even astronomy etc in vedas etc ,and even goes to the extent that all rasies and astrological references clearly said in all purnas and allied vedic litterature is interpolation after india influenced by one maya the mlecha ( he was givn status of greek by them to support their views where as it is clearly said his name was Mayasura )and Same time some so called vedic astrologers saying sayana tropical zodiac is what mentioned in vedas and there is no proof of siderial nakshtra zodiac or the concept is doubtful ,so we shud adopt and use sayana tropical zodiac as they dont blv in subjuctiv reality so thanks for this brilliant article it need further efforts to clarify some points which we neeed some more time and i am sure we can dig out more truth and reality ,so long we respect rishi vkyas and anchored with their imparted knowldge we will hav their blessing too for any future endevours in jyothisha and will come out as diamonds which has gone tru polishing keep it up regrds sunil nair , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> (Continued from previous mail..............)> > > 12> > Tapasya> > Feb 21 – Mar 21> > > > b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu> > Sl> > Madhuvadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Season> > 1> > Madhu> > Mar 5 – Apr 5> > Vasanta> > > > 2> > Madhav> > Apr 5 – May 5> > 3> > Sukra> > May 5 – Jun 5> > Greeshma> > 4> > Suchi> > Jun 5 – Jul 5> > 5> > Nabha> > Jul 5 – Aug 5> > Varsha> > 6> > Nabhasya> > Aug 5 – Sep 5> > 7> > Isha> > Sep 5 – Oct 5> > Sarat> > 8> > Urja> > Oct 5 – Nov 5> > 9> > Saha> > Nov 5 – Dec 5> > Hemanata> > 10> > Sahasya> > Dec 5 – Jan 5> > 11> > Tapa> > Jan 5 – Feb 5> > Sisira> > 12> > Tapasya> > Feb 5 – Mar 5> > Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select any> one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the> popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not> seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points> –> > * If we accept this system we will have to accept that –> > * Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and> Tapasya mean hot)> * Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky> seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky')> * Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot> seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic> holds good for all month names.> * Even though throughout the sequence there is only one month> name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will> have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead> Madhu masa.> > These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of> considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the> popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes> that these months are Tropical solar in nature.> > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months> > What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the> above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that period> the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would be> helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, provided> we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu,> Madhava etc.> > But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the first> reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons with> the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves> through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different> months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any such> evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references.> > 1) Linga Purana> > (Source:> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madh\> u+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0\> & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#\> PPA39,M1> <http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=mad\> hu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz\> 0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3\> #PPA39,M1> ) Ref to page 39.> > The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana –> > "According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are> months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of> Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and> Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta"> > > > 2) Taitireeya Brahmana> > According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of> Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja of> Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira.> > > > The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from> Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same> seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in> nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months!> > > > Now I am equipped with the following info –> > * These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only> month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning)> * These Vedic months are sidereal in nature> > > > With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption> –> > * Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - > Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal> location. That should be the very reason for listing these months> starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual> starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been > Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence –> > > > Sl> > Ishadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Tuladi> > 1> > Isha> > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > Tula> > 2> > Urja> > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > Virschika> > 3> > Saha> > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > Dhanu> > 4> > Sahasya> > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > Makara> > 5> > Tapa> > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > Kumbha> > 6> > Tapasya> > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > Meena> > 7> > Madhu> > Apr 14 – May 14> > Mesha> > 8> > Madhav> > May 14 – Jun 14> > Vrishabha> > 9> > Sukra> > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > Mithuna> > 10> > Suchi> > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > Karkitaka> > 11> > Nabha> > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > Simha> > 12> > Nabhasya> > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > Kanya> > > > So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence that> was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, Madhuvadi> sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table.> > Sl> > Madhuvadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Meshadi> > 1> > Madhu> > Apr 14 – May 14> > Mesha> > 2> > Madhav> > May 14 – Jun 14> > Vrishabha> > 3> > Sukra> > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > Mithuna> > 4> > Suchi> > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > Karkitaka> > 5> > Nabha> > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > Simha> > 6> > Nabhasya> > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > Kanya> > 7> > Isha> > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > Tula> > 8> > Urja> > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > Virschika> > 9> > Saha> > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > Dhanu> > 10> > Sahasya> > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > Makara> > 11> > Tapa> > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > Kumbha> > 12> > Tapasya> > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > Meena> > > > Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually I> am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I> think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due> to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was in> use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have been> in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra> sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared a> common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these> references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or> falsehood of my assumption.> > > > Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana> > Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the> Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have?> > Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half of> first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that> period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280).> True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was> composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our derived> information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with> modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic> texts as well.> > > > What about the period referred to by Linga Purana?> > Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava> is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun> 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view,> Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu –> possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox> to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is> referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin> than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better> understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal> months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident> from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of> astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of> later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva traditional> teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the> traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by> Linga Purana –> > > > Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two> apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on the> Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the> seasons are given below.> > a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya and> pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala and> Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. Uraga> and Vasuki.> > b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and> Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and> Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka and> one other (name not mentioned)> > c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus and> Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha> and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and> Shankhapala> > d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja> an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji> and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an> Iravan.> > e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and> Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and> Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and> Karkataka.> > f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, Jamadagni> and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the> Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and Yakshopeta;> the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara.> > (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself)> > Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and> the knowledge it shares is always like that!> > > > Rk Vedanga Jyotisha and a secret encoded> > With this much clear understanding about Madhuvadi Vedic months, let us> turn to the people who argue in favor of tropical solar months, quoting> the following –> > Swarakramete somarkau yada sarkam savasavau> > Syat tadadi yugam maghascha tapa suklo(a)yanam hyudak> > > > (Verse 6 Vedanga jyotish)> > [When the sun and the moon rise together in Dhanistha Nakshatra, then> the five year yuga, Maagha, Tapa, Sukla pakshya and Uttarayana start> together]> > > > This statement is absolutely true for the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha period of> BC 1400. But still it does not prove that Madhuvadi months are Tropical> but only substantiate the argument that Tapa is a sidereal month in> tune with Makara.> > Actually this quote even gives us a clue to deny all arguments in favor> of Vedic tropical months itself, and to clarify the luni-solar> (Chaitradi, Arunadi) and Sidereal (Madhuvadi, Aswinyadi, Meshadi) base> of the Vedic calendar system! How? I will explain.> > > > When we say that - "Equinox traverse through Nakshatras" what we mean?> Do we mean that the "The starting point of Nakshatras change with the> movement of vernal equinox" or that "The position of Equinox change but> Nakshatras remain fixed"? Ofcourse we know that it is the second - i.e.> The Nakshatras remain fixed (27 Nakshatras having 13 deg 28 min each),> and the equinox traverse through them gradually" - right? I know that> you will not disagree on the fact that based on equinoxes and solstices> seasons can be measured.> > Now if I say - Seasons (represented by seasons or equinox) started with> Vasanta Ritu in Madhu Masa what will you interpret? In the absence of> any other poof regarding whether Madhu Masa is sidereal solar or> tropical solar, you may have two choices -> > 1) Consider that "the starting point of Months change with the> movement of vernal equinox" (The erroneous argument in the case of> Nakshatras as mentioned earlier!)> > 2) Consider that "The position of Equinox change but Moths remain> fixed"! (The correct argument in the case of Nakshatras as exemplified> earlier!)> > > > Now in presence of the proof from Linga Purana to show that `Seasons> move through Madhuvadi months' we are left with no other choice but> to accept the truth regarding Vedic Nakshatras and Madhuvadi months–> they both are sidereal in nature. Enough of our time already wasted by> many erroneously trying to prove that Maghuvadi vedic months are> tropical solar (or some fools even coin a new tern `tropical> lunar'!) – a view supported neither by Vedas nor by logic. So> what do you say - whether this Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc are> sidereal solar or tropical solar? After all these proofs as supporting> arguments, do we have a choice, except to accept that Madhuvadi are> sidereal in nature?> > > > By providing the info that winter solstice was at Dhanishta Nakshatra> (and thus that it was moving through Nakshatras), Rk Vedanga Jyotisha is> providing us with a clear clue for the fact that many systems it speak> about is of sidereal in nature. The same is true for sidereal lunar> Aswinyadi Nakshatras, and the same is true for Madhuvadi sidereal solar> vedic month sequence.> > > Meshadi> There are many proofs available to state that just like the various> other month names sequences, Meshadi month names were also in extensive> use during Vedic period itself. Actually it is be less popularity of> Madhu-Madhavadi months, and the systematic approach of connecting> sidereal month names with stellar constellations visible in sky that> made caused the popularity of Meshadi month names. In the same way> Chaitradi month names are scientific and systematic (since they> associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Moon), Meshadi month> names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal> Nakshatras with the movement of Sun). This is the very reason for both> Chaitradi Lunar months and Meshadi Solar Sidereal months becoming much> popular than any other system in the course of time – it was just> the survival of the best and the fittest system.> > > > Sl> > Meshadi> > Gregorian Date> > (approx)> > Madhuvadi> > 1> > Mesha> > Apr 14 – May 14> > Madhu> > 2> > Vrishabha> > May 14 – Jun 14> > Madhav> > 3> > Mithuna> > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > Sukra> > 4> > Karkitaka> > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > Suchi> > 5> > Simha> > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > Nabha> > 6> > Kanya> > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > Nabhasya> > 7> > Tula> > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > Isha> > 8> > Virschika> > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > Urja> > 9> > Dhanu> > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > Saha> > 10> > Makara> > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > Sahasya> > 11> > Kumbha> > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > Tapa> > 12> > Meena> > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > Tapasya> > > > Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month names> in Vedic period is given below –> > 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It> reads as follows -> > Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH> > te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH> > (Yajur> Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5)> > [Take the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign),> ...................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan> prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. That> proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga Jyotisha> period.> > 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach> the 11th sloka. It reads –> > Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset> > Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun> > (Rk> Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11)> > Please notice the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern LAGNA; from> the eastern RISING SIGN) "Lagna" means, "Raseenam Udayo Lagna" (The SIGN> rising in the east is termed LAGNA).> > 3) Take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote> that reads - "Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The Vasanta> Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the> period of time and geographical location)]> > 4) Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings> such as - "Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam"> etc etc.> > 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows> –> > Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH> > masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH> > [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi;> Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) -> then that month is known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the unclean> month)]> > This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in existence> and use during Vedic period.> > 6) If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for> you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs> in all of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous other> Puranas.> > > > Other type of Months> > Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and> Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were ascribed> to them.> > > > Conclusion> > In this article I tried to discuss the various month name sequences used> in Vedic period, and tried to decipher the nature of those months in> detail. The general understanding arrived at is that –> > * only Lunar (luni-solar) and Solar Sidereal months were in used> during Vedic period in India and> * no tropical month sequences were in use in Vedic period in> India> > In other words all tropical month sequences are imported and not all> Indian or Vedic in nature. The Kaulians who argue in favor of existence> of Tropical month names in Vedas are totally baseless and lack even the> basic understanding of month name sequences used in Vedas.> > - 0 -> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Shri Sreenadhji and Shri Sunil Nairji, This is just to acknolwedge that Your articles and write ups are much awaited and appreciated, though we may not respond to every article due to numerous reasons, but they are certainly noticed, read and the hard work and efforts observed nevertheless. Sreenadhji I know you keep late hours at night and were busy working at 1.15am too last night approving mails, and same with Shri Nairji, and Neelamji. All this does not go unnoticed. Sunilji your last articles on Nadi and Samkhya were read by me with deep interest and wished to reply, but then if I had begun writing then I know there was much to write and would have covered many pages. So I held myself back. Thank You for making this Group what it is. best wishes, Bhaskar. -- In , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > dear sreenadh ji > > very good excellent work indeed , > > This has blown out all of the so called calender reformists arguemnts > ( who uses it as cover to proselyte hindus saying all the astrological > knowledge got frm other culture by infucing inferiority complex and same > time getting support frm some religious hardlines who is ignorent of all > this concepts and hidden agenda is total destruction of full hindu > culture ) arguemtns against there is no rasi concept in jyothisha > ,there is no predictiv astrology or even astronomy etc in vedas etc ,and > even goes to the extent that all rasies and astrological references > clearly said in all purnas and allied vedic litterature is > interpolation after india influenced by one maya the mlecha ( he was > givn status of greek by them to support their views where as it is > clearly said his name was Mayasura ) > > and > > Same time some so called vedic astrologers saying sayana tropical zodiac > is what mentioned in vedas and there is no proof of siderial nakshtra > zodiac or the concept is doubtful ,so we shud adopt and use sayana > tropical zodiac as they dont blv in subjuctiv reality > > so thanks for this brilliant article > > it need further efforts to clarify some points which we neeed some more > time and i am sure we can dig out more truth and reality ,so long we > respect rishi vkyas and anchored with their imparted knowldge we will > hav their blessing too for any future endevours in jyothisha and will > come out as diamonds which has gone tru polishing > > keep it up > > regrds sunil nair > > > > , " Sreenadh " > sreesog@ wrote: > > > > (Continued from previous mail..............) > > > > > > 12 > > > > Tapasya > > > > Feb 21 – Mar 21 > > > > > > > > b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu > > > > Sl > > > > Madhuvadi > > > > Gregorian Date > > > > (approx) > > > > Season > > > > 1 > > > > Madhu > > > > Mar 5 – Apr 5 > > > > Vasanta > > > > > > > > 2 > > > > Madhav > > > > Apr 5 – May 5 > > > > 3 > > > > Sukra > > > > May 5 – Jun 5 > > > > Greeshma > > > > 4 > > > > Suchi > > > > Jun 5 – Jul 5 > > > > 5 > > > > Nabha > > > > Jul 5 – Aug 5 > > > > Varsha > > > > 6 > > > > Nabhasya > > > > Aug 5 – Sep 5 > > > > 7 > > > > Isha > > > > Sep 5 – Oct 5 > > > > Sarat > > > > 8 > > > > Urja > > > > Oct 5 – Nov 5 > > > > 9 > > > > Saha > > > > Nov 5 – Dec 5 > > > > Hemanata > > > > 10 > > > > Sahasya > > > > Dec 5 – Jan 5 > > > > 11 > > > > Tapa > > > > Jan 5 – Feb 5 > > > > Sisira > > > > 12 > > > > Tapasya > > > > Feb 5 – Mar 5 > > > > Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select > any > > one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the > > popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not > > seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points > > – > > > > * If we accept this system we will have to accept that – > > > > * Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa > and > > Tapasya mean hot) > > * Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky > > seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky') > > * Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot > > seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic > > holds good for all month names. > > * Even though throughout the sequence there is only one > month > > name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will > > have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead > > Madhu masa. > > > > These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of > > considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the > > popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who > assumes > > that these months are Tropical solar in nature. > > > > > > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months > > > > What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the > > above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that > period > > the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would > be > > helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, > provided > > we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu, > > Madhava etc. > > > > But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the > first > > reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons > with > > the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves > > through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different > > months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any > such > > evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references. > > > > 1) Linga Purana > > > > (Source: > > > http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madh\ \ > \ > > > u+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0\ \ > \ > > > & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#\ \ > \ > > PPA39,M1 > > > <http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=mad\ \ > \ > > > hu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz\ \ > \ > > > 0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3\ \ > \ > > #PPA39,M1> ) Ref to page 39. > > > > The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana – > > > > " According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are > > months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of > > Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and > > Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta " > > > > > > > > 2) Taitireeya Brahmana > > > > According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of > > Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja > of > > Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira. > > > > > > > > The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from > > Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same > > seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in > > nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months! > > > > > > > > Now I am equipped with the following info – > > > > * These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only > > month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning) > > * These Vedic months are sidereal in nature > > > > > > > > With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption > > – > > > > * Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - > > Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal > > location. That should be the very reason for listing these months > > starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual > > starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been > > Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence – > > > > > > > > Sl > > > > Ishadi > > > > Gregorian Date > > > > (approx) > > > > Tuladi > > > > 1 > > > > Isha > > > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > > > Tula > > > > 2 > > > > Urja > > > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > > > Virschika > > > > 3 > > > > Saha > > > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > > > Dhanu > > > > 4 > > > > Sahasya > > > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > > > Makara > > > > 5 > > > > Tapa > > > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > > > Kumbha > > > > 6 > > > > Tapasya > > > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > > > Meena > > > > 7 > > > > Madhu > > > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > > > Mesha > > > > 8 > > > > Madhav > > > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > > > Vrishabha > > > > 9 > > > > Sukra > > > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > > > Mithuna > > > > 10 > > > > Suchi > > > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > > > Karkitaka > > > > 11 > > > > Nabha > > > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > > > Simha > > > > 12 > > > > Nabhasya > > > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > > > Kanya > > > > > > > > So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence > that > > was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, > Madhuvadi > > sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table. > > > > Sl > > > > Madhuvadi > > > > Gregorian Date > > > > (approx) > > > > Meshadi > > > > 1 > > > > Madhu > > > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > > > Mesha > > > > 2 > > > > Madhav > > > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > > > Vrishabha > > > > 3 > > > > Sukra > > > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > > > Mithuna > > > > 4 > > > > Suchi > > > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > > > Karkitaka > > > > 5 > > > > Nabha > > > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > > > Simha > > > > 6 > > > > Nabhasya > > > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > > > Kanya > > > > 7 > > > > Isha > > > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > > > Tula > > > > 8 > > > > Urja > > > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > > > Virschika > > > > 9 > > > > Saha > > > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > > > Dhanu > > > > 10 > > > > Sahasya > > > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > > > Makara > > > > 11 > > > > Tapa > > > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > > > Kumbha > > > > 12 > > > > Tapasya > > > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > > > Meena > > > > > > > > Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually > I > > am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I > > think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due > > to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was > in > > use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have > been > > in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra > > sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared > a > > common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these > > references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or > > falsehood of my assumption. > > > > > > > > Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana > > > > Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the > > Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have? > > > > Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half > of > > first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that > > period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280). > > True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was > > composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our > derived > > information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with > > modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic > > texts as well. > > > > > > > > What about the period referred to by Linga Purana? > > > > Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava > > is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun > > 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view, > > Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu – > > possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox > > to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is > > referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin > > than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better > > understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal > > months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident > > from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of > > astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of > > later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva > traditional > > teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the > > traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by > > Linga Purana – > > > > > > > > Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two > > apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on > the > > Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the > > seasons are given below. > > > > a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya > and > > pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala > and > > Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. > Uraga > > and Vasuki. > > > > b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and > > Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and > > Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka > and > > one other (name not mentioned) > > > > c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus > and > > Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha > > and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and > > Shankhapala > > > > d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja > > an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji > > and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an > > Iravan. > > > > e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and > > Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and > > Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and > > Karkataka. > > > > f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, > Jamadagni > > and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the > > Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and > Yakshopeta; > > the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara. > > > > (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself) > > > > Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and > > the knowledge it shares is always like that! > > > > > > > > Rk Vedanga Jyotisha and a secret encoded > > > > With this much clear understanding about Madhuvadi Vedic months, let > us > > turn to the people who argue in favor of tropical solar months, > quoting > > the following – > > > > Swarakramete somarkau yada sarkam savasavau > > > > Syat tadadi yugam maghascha tapa suklo(a)yanam hyudak > > > > > > > > (Verse 6 Vedanga jyotish) > > > > [When the sun and the moon rise together in Dhanistha Nakshatra, then > > the five year yuga, Maagha, Tapa, Sukla pakshya and Uttarayana start > > together] > > > > > > > > This statement is absolutely true for the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha period > of > > BC 1400. But still it does not prove that Madhuvadi months are > Tropical > > but only substantiate the argument that Tapa is a sidereal month in > > tune with Makara. > > > > Actually this quote even gives us a clue to deny all arguments in > favor > > of Vedic tropical months itself, and to clarify the luni-solar > > (Chaitradi, Arunadi) and Sidereal (Madhuvadi, Aswinyadi, Meshadi) base > > of the Vedic calendar system! How? I will explain. > > > > > > > > When we say that - " Equinox traverse through Nakshatras " what we mean? > > Do we mean that the " The starting point of Nakshatras change with the > > movement of vernal equinox " or that " The position of Equinox change > but > > Nakshatras remain fixed " ? Ofcourse we know that it is the second - > i.e. > > The Nakshatras remain fixed (27 Nakshatras having 13 deg 28 min each), > > and the equinox traverse through them gradually " - right? I know that > > you will not disagree on the fact that based on equinoxes and > solstices > > seasons can be measured. > > > > Now if I say - Seasons (represented by seasons or equinox) started > with > > Vasanta Ritu in Madhu Masa what will you interpret? In the absence of > > any other poof regarding whether Madhu Masa is sidereal solar or > > tropical solar, you may have two choices - > > > > 1) Consider that " the starting point of Months change with the > > movement of vernal equinox " (The erroneous argument in the case of > > Nakshatras as mentioned earlier!) > > > > 2) Consider that " The position of Equinox change but Moths remain > > fixed " ! (The correct argument in the case of Nakshatras as exemplified > > earlier!) > > > > > > > > Now in presence of the proof from Linga Purana to show that `Seasons > > move through Madhuvadi months' we are left with no other choice but > > to accept the truth regarding Vedic Nakshatras and Madhuvadi > months– > > they both are sidereal in nature. Enough of our time already wasted by > > many erroneously trying to prove that Maghuvadi vedic months are > > tropical solar (or some fools even coin a new tern `tropical > > lunar'!) – a view supported neither by Vedas nor by logic. So > > what do you say - whether this Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc are > > sidereal solar or tropical solar? After all these proofs as supporting > > arguments, do we have a choice, except to accept that Madhuvadi are > > sidereal in nature? > > > > > > > > By providing the info that winter solstice was at Dhanishta Nakshatra > > (and thus that it was moving through Nakshatras), Rk Vedanga Jyotisha > is > > providing us with a clear clue for the fact that many systems it speak > > about is of sidereal in nature. The same is true for sidereal lunar > > Aswinyadi Nakshatras, and the same is true for Madhuvadi sidereal > solar > > vedic month sequence. > > > > > > Meshadi > > There are many proofs available to state that just like the various > > other month names sequences, Meshadi month names were also in > extensive > > use during Vedic period itself. Actually it is be less popularity of > > Madhu-Madhavadi months, and the systematic approach of connecting > > sidereal month names with stellar constellations visible in sky that > > made caused the popularity of Meshadi month names. In the same way > > Chaitradi month names are scientific and systematic (since they > > associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Moon), Meshadi > month > > names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal > > Nakshatras with the movement of Sun). This is the very reason for both > > Chaitradi Lunar months and Meshadi Solar Sidereal months becoming much > > popular than any other system in the course of time – it was just > > the survival of the best and the fittest system. > > > > > > > > Sl > > > > Meshadi > > > > Gregorian Date > > > > (approx) > > > > Madhuvadi > > > > 1 > > > > Mesha > > > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > > > Madhu > > > > 2 > > > > Vrishabha > > > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > > > Madhav > > > > 3 > > > > Mithuna > > > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > > > Sukra > > > > 4 > > > > Karkitaka > > > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > > > Suchi > > > > 5 > > > > Simha > > > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > > > Nabha > > > > 6 > > > > Kanya > > > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > > > Nabhasya > > > > 7 > > > > Tula > > > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > > > Isha > > > > 8 > > > > Virschika > > > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > > > Urja > > > > 9 > > > > Dhanu > > > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > > > Saha > > > > 10 > > > > Makara > > > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > > > Sahasya > > > > 11 > > > > Kumbha > > > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > > > Tapa > > > > 12 > > > > Meena > > > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > > > Tapasya > > > > > > > > Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month > names > > in Vedic period is given below – > > > > 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. > It > > reads as follows - > > > > Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH > > > > te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH > > > > (Yajur > > Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) > > > > [Take the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces > Sign), > > ...................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan > > prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. That > > proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga > Jyotisha > > period. > > > > 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to > reach > > the 11th sloka. It reads – > > > > Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset > > > > Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun > > > > (Rk > > Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11) > > > > Please notice the words - " Prag vilangnan " (From the eastern LAGNA; > from > > the eastern RISING SIGN) " Lagna " means, " Raseenam Udayo Lagna " (The > SIGN > > rising in the east is termed LAGNA). > > > > 3) Take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote > > that reads - " Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH " [The Vasanta > > Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the > > period of time and geographical location)] > > > > 4) Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the > wordings > > such as - " Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya " , " Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam " > > etc etc. > > > > 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows > > – > > > > Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH > > > > masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH > > > > [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi; > > Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) - > > then that month is known with the special name " Maliplucha " (the > unclean > > month)] > > > > This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in > existence > > and use during Vedic period. > > > > 6) If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better > for > > you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to > Signs > > in all of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous > other > > Puranas. > > > > > > > > Other type of Months > > > > Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and > > Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were > ascribed > > to them. > > > > > > > > Conclusion > > > > In this article I tried to discuss the various month name sequences > used > > in Vedic period, and tried to decipher the nature of those months in > > detail. The general understanding arrived at is that – > > > > * only Lunar (luni-solar) and Solar Sidereal months were in > used > > during Vedic period in India and > > * no tropical month sequences were in use in Vedic period in > > India > > > > In other words all tropical month sequences are imported and not all > > Indian or Vedic in nature. The Kaulians who argue in favor of > existence > > of Tropical month names in Vedas are totally baseless and lack even > the > > basic understanding of month name sequences used in Vedas. > > > > - 0 - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Bhaskar ji, Thanks. You are right and the effort went into the recent articles by Sunil ji should be appreciated much.Love and Regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear Shri Sreenadhji and Shri Sunil Nairji,> > This is just to acknolwedge that Your articles and write ups are much> awaited and appreciated, though we may not respond to every article due> to numerous reasons, but they are certainly noticed, read and the hard> work and efforts observed nevertheless.> > Sreenadhji I know you keep late hours at night and were busy working at> 1.15am too last night approving mails, and same with Shri Nairji, and> Neelamji. All this does not go unnoticed.> > Sunilji your last articles on Nadi and Samkhya were read by me with> deep interest and wished to reply, but then if I had begun writing then> I know there was much to write and would have covered many pages. So I> held myself back.> > Thank You for making this Group what it is.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji, Not only Dear Sunilji, but I appreciate your articles and writeups too. My mail was meant for both of you. Love and regards, Bhaskar. , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > Thanks. You are right and the effort went into the recent articles by > Sunil ji should be appreciated much. > Love and Regards, > Sreenadh > > , " Bhaskar " > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri Sreenadhji and Shri Sunil Nairji, > > > > This is just to acknolwedge that Your articles and write ups are much > > awaited and appreciated, though we may not respond to every article > due > > to numerous reasons, but they are certainly noticed, read and the hard > > work and efforts observed nevertheless. > > > > Sreenadhji I know you keep late hours at night and were busy working > at > > 1.15am too last night approving mails, and same with Shri Nairji, and > > Neelamji. All this does not go unnoticed. > > > > Sunilji your last articles on Nadi and Samkhya were read by me with > > deep interest and wished to reply, but then if I had begun writing > then > > I know there was much to write and would have covered many pages. So I > > held myself back. > > > > Thank You for making this Group what it is. > > > > best wishes, > > > > Bhaskar. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji, Thank you for putting the MONTH-mania in the right perspective. It can now serve as an important reference document which can be used to straighten many issues which keep cropping up from time-to-time. Hope some would see the light, and live and let live! Regards Neelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Bhaskar ji, Thanks. It is just due to modesty that I kept away from responding to the same. But if you force me to - then Thanks, certainly I noticed it. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > Not only Dear Sunilji, but I appreciate your articles and writeups too.> My mail was meant for both of you.> > Love and regards,> > Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji, I appreciate the articles written by yourself and Sunil Nairji and these are really very timely. This shows the depth of our group. Thanks and regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Sreenadh <sreesog Re: Vedic Month Names Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:37 AM Dear Bhaskar ji, Thanks. It is just due to modesty that I kept away from responding to the same. But if you force me to - then Thanks, certainly I noticed it. Love and regards, Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ....> wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh ji, > > Not only Dear Sunilji, but I appreciate your articles and writeups too. > My mail was meant for both of you. > > Love and regards, > > Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Sreenadh-ji, This is brilliant! Thanks for sharing! Regards Souvik , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Vedic Month Names > - Written by Sreenadh OG > Vedic Months > Types of Months > > Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of > unnamed months. > > The named month sequences are - Tapa, Magha, Mesha, Aruna and Baja. > > The un-named month sequences are – The Nakshatra month and the > Nityayoga month > > The month sequence can be – > > 1. Sidereal Lunar : like the Nakshtra month (Lunar) > 2. Luni-solar : like the Chaitradi months (Lunar) > 3. Tropical Solar : like the western solar tropical months > (Solar) > 4. Sidereal Solar : like the Meshadi months (Solar) > > These are the only four categories month names can belong to. While > speaking about months it is essential that we understand about what type > of month we are dealing with. Same is true for Vedic months as well. > > [Please note that the Gregorian solar months like January, February, > March etc that we use today do not belong to any of the above four > scientific categories – but just fixed name sequences for dividing > 365 days only.] > > > > Adhimasa and Mala masa > > Another general concept of importance is Adhimasa (extra month) and > Malamasa (impure month). They don't mean the same. Extra month is > always connected with Lunar months and Malamasa with Solar months. > > Extra Month (Adhi masa): Tithi or Nakshtra based Lunar months and the > Lunar year would be always small compared to the solar year. To adjust > the difference and make them tune with each other usually an extra Lunar > month is considered. This extra lunar month is termed `adhi > masa' (extra month). > > > > Impure Month (mala masa): If start of more than one lunar month occurs > with in a single solar month, then that solar month would be treated as > impure month (mala masa). For example in Amanta system (month start with > Sukla paksha pradipada, i.e. with first day after new moon), if two > Amavasi (no moon or new moon) occur with in a single solar month, then > that solar month would be considered as impure. In Pournamanta system > (month start with krishna paksha pradipada, i.e. with first day after > full moon) if two Paurnami (full moon) occur with in a single solar > month, then that solar month would be considered as impure (mala masa). > > Please note that we would be speaking about extra month (Adhimasa) only > in case of Lunar months and impure month (Malamasa) only in case of > Solar months. > > > > List of Months > > Firstly, without considering whether these months are sidereal lunar, > sidereal solar, tropical solar, lunar (luni-solar) – the vedic named > months are listed below – > > > > > > Sl > > 1.Chitradi > > 2.Madhuvadi > > 3.Arunadi > > 4.Bajadi > > 5.Meshadi > > 1 > > Chaitra > > Madhu > > Aruna > > Baja > > Mesha > > 2 > > Vaisakha > > Madhav > > Arunaraja > > Prasava > > Vrishabha > > 3 > > Jyeshta > > Sukra > > Pundareeka > > Apija > > Mithuna > > 4 > > Ashadha > > Suchi > > Viswajit > > Kratu > > Karkita > > 5 > > Sravana > > Nabha > > Abhijit > > Vasu > > Simha > > 6 > > Bhadrapada > > Nabhasya > > Ardra > > Aharpnati > > Kanya > > 7 > > Asvina > > Isha > > Pinvaman > > Mugdhahra > > Tula > > 8 > > Kartika > > Urja > > Annavan > > Vainamsina > > Vrischika > > 9 > > Margaseersha > > Saha > > Rasavan > > Atyayana > > Dhanu > > 10 > > Pausha > > Sahasya > > Iravan > > Bhauvana > > Makara > > 11 > > Magha > > Tapa > > Sarvoshadha > > Bhuvanapati > > Kumbha > > 12 > > Phalguna > > Tapasya > > Sambhara > > Adhipalaka > > Meena > > Extra/Impure Month > > Adhikamasa > > Maliplucha > > Mahasvan > > Prajapati > > Malamasa > > I will discuss these 5 unique vedic month sequences in detail as and > when required. Out of these five sequences due to the presence of extra > months - such as Adhikamasa in Chaitradi sequence and Mahasvan in > Arunadi sequence - it is evident that most possibly they are Lunar month > sequences. Similarly due to the presence of impure months – such as > Maliplucha in Madhavadi sequence and Malamasa in Meshadi sequence it is > evident that most possibly they are solar months. There is a good > possibility that Bajadi months are also solar in nature as evident from > the use of other names of Sun for naming months such as Kratu, Vasu etc. > Thus we have 5 Vedic month sequences such as – > > 1) Chaitradi (Lunar) > > 2) Madhavadi (Solar) > > 3) Arunadi (Lunar) > > 4) Bajadi (Solar) > > 5) Meshadi (Solar) > > But this vague understanding won't be enough if we want to approach > this subject in a scholarly way. So I will try to go further in our > effort to understand these Vedic month sequences. > > > > Differentiating Lunar and Solar Months > > Secondly, our effort should be to identify which of them are Lunar > (sidereal lunar, luni-solar) and which are solar (sidereal solar, > tropical solar). Two criteria we can use are – > > * If the month names uses Nakshatra names then definitely they > are Lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) in nature > * If the month sequence provides a special name for extra month > then definitely it is a lunar (sidereal lunar or luni-solar) month > and not solar month. > > The Chaitradi month names clearly indicate that they are connected to > Nakshtras such as Chaitra, Vaisakha, Jyeshta etc and so definitely Lunar > (sidereal lunar or luni-solar). Similarly the Arunadi month names do > refer to Nakshatras such as Abhijit and Ardra and so most possibly > Lunar. To substantiate the argument, Chaitradi sequence do have an extra > month with the name Adhika masa or Adhi masa (meaning `extra > month') and Arunadi sequence do have an extra month with the name > Mahasvan (meaning `bright' or `great'). Therefore it is > certain that both Chaitradi and Arunadi sequences where Lunar (sidereal > lunar or luni-solar) in nature. > Lunar Months > Differentiating Sidereal Lunar and Luni-solar Months > > How would we identify whether a lunar month is, sidereal lunar or > luni-solar? This can usually be identified based on the definition of > the month itself. Further it should be noted that the popular Vedic > months are luni-solar in nature – since they are based on Tithi and > Full Moon or New Moon in various Nakshatras. > > Sidereal Lunar Months = 27 Nakshatras (27 1/3 solar days) > > Sidereal Lunar Year = 324 Nakshatra days = 27.333 x 12 = 327 solar days > > To make such months in tune with the Solar year of 365.2425 days more > than one extra month (Adhimasa) per year would be required in this case; > and the extra month should contain 365 – 327 = 38 days. > > Is it possible that the Arunadi sequence was Sidereal Lunar in nature - > especially because of the fact that the extra month is named Mahasvan > (meaning `bright' or `great')? Was this naming done > since the extra month was more than 38 days long? No - this do not seem > to be true. Why? If Arunadi months were sidereal lunar in nature they > will never get names which refer to Sun. The month names Aruna, Arunaja, > Iravan all refer to Sun. For this it is evident that, Arunadi month > sequence is luni-solar in nature. It is well known that the most popular > Vedic month sequence, the Madhavadi moths is also luni-solar in nature. > > Sidereal Lunar Months = 30 Tithis (29.5 solar days) > > Sidereal Lunar Year = 29.5 x 12 = 354 solar days > > To make such months in tune with the Solar year of 365.2425 days more > than one extra month (Adhimasa) per three years would be required in > this case; and the extra month should contain (365 – 354 = 11 days > per year) x 3 years = 33 days. > > This was the system of extra month followed in Chaitradi sequence and > Arunadi sequence. > > > > Chaitradi Months > > Let us understand what period of the year these months refer to > currently – > > Sl > > Chitradi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Condition: Full Moon in the Nakshatra - > > 1 > > Chaitra > > Mar 21 – Apr 21 > > Chitra > > 2 > > Vaisakha > > Apr 21 – May 21 > > Visakha > > 3 > > Jyeshta > > May 21 – Jun 21 > > Jyeshta > > 4 > > Ashadha > > Jun 21 – Jul 21 > > Purva Ashadha > > 5 > > Sravana > > Jul 21 – Aug 21 > > Sravana > > 6 > > Bhadrapada > > Aug 21 – Sep 21 > > Purva Bhadrapada > > 7 > > Asvina > > Sep 21 – Oct 21 > > Asvina > > 8 > > Kartika > > Oct 21 – Nov 21 > > Kartika > > 9 > > Margaseersha > > Nov 21 – Dec 21 > > Mrigaseersha > > 10 > > Pausha > > Dec 21 – Jan 21 > > Pushya > > 11 > > Magha > > Jan 21 – Feb 21 > > Magha > > 12 > > Phalguna > > Feb 21 – Mar 21 > > Uttara Phalguna > > When connected with seasons, usually for Chaitradi months the year (and > month counting) could start from either Chaitra (i.e. from vernal > equinox) or from Magha (i.e. from winter solstice). The other two > possible starting points such as Asvina (i.e. from autumnal equinox) and > Ashadha (i.e. from summer solstice) are not much known to have been in > use. But still many Vedic evidences points to the fact that, even when > the month names used remains the same, the year beginning could be in > any season – depending on locality, culture, religion, festivals and > so on. > > > > Arunadi Months > > Let us understand the period represented by Arunadi months also in the > same way. We get these month names from Tatireeya brahmana quote that > reads as follows – > > Aruno arunarajaH pundareeko visvajit abhijit ardraH > > Pinvamano annavan rasavan iravan sarvoshadhaH sambharo mahasvan > > (Taitireeya brahmana 1-10-1) > > [(The months are) Aruna, Arunaraja, Pundareeka, Viswajit, Abhijit, > Ardra, Pinnvamano, Annavan, Rasavan, Iravan, Sarvoshadha, Sambhara and > Mahasvan] > > > > But please note that 13 month names are listed here, indicating that the > sage is speaking about Lunar months. The listing starts with Aruna > indicating that the year started with this month itself. If we > `assume' that the year beginning was in tune with `vernal > equinox' (this is not certain or necessary, but only an assumption) > then the months would represent approximately the following period given > in the table below. It is also not certain, what were the pre-conditions > used to derive the span of the month. If we again `assume' that > Arunadi were months similar to Chaitradi, calculated based on the > presence of Full Moon within the month then possibly the situation was > as follows – > > > > Sl > > Arunadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Condition: Full Moon in the Nakshatra - > > 1 > > Aruna > > Mar 21 – Apr 21 > > Hasta > > 2 > > Arunaraja > > Apr 21 – May 21 > > Swati > > 3 > > Pundareeka > > May 21 – Jun 21 > > Anuradha > > 4 > > Viswajit > > Jun 21 – Jul 21 > > Mula > > 5 > > Abhijit > > Jul 21 – Aug 21 > > Abhijit > > 6 > > Ardra > > Aug 21 – Sep 21 > > Satabhishak > > 7 > > Pinvaman > > Sep 21 – Oct 21 > > Revati > > 8 > > Annavan > > Oct 21 – Nov 21 > > Bharani > > 9 > > Rasavan > > Nov 21 – Dec 21 > > Rohini > > 10 > > Iravan > > Dec 21 – Jan 21 > > Punarvasu > > 11 > > Sarvoshadha > > Jan 21 – Feb 21 > > Aslesha > > 12 > > Sambhara > > Feb 21 – Mar 21 > > Purva Phalguna > > Please note that the above listing is just an assumption and may not be > the truth. With the Nakshatra names Abhijit and Ardra coming so close to > each other, I am not even certain that these are Lunar month names. It > is also possible that these are Solar months names derived based on some > other condition. A some what common thread of – many month names > indicating Vishnu, many month names indicating some Vedic yagas, many > month indicating some connection with seasons etc are trends that are > visible in this month naming. But no single, solid, common clue which > can be used to decipher the secret of these month names is available. It > seems that here the month division is done based on the bright Nakshatra > Abhijit. It should be considered that in Nakshatra divisions (of 13 deg > 20 min) as well all the corresponding Yoga Taras (bright stars of the > division) falls within the Nakshatra division, only when Abhijit star is > considered as the starting point. Certainly as some point in the Vedic > past Abhijit star might have been made use of both in the Nakshatra > division as well as in Month division. The special name " Brahma > Rasi " (Sign of creation) given to Makara Rasi (Capricorn Sign) in > Mahabharata also serves as a supporting factor here. Please note that > Abhijit star is at the beginning of Makara Rasi (Capricorn sign). > Considering these scenarios it is even possible that these month names > are sidereal in nature. The fact is that – except the following two > points we are not sure about any thing related to this month sequence. > The points we are sure about are – > > * Arunadi month names were in use in the Vedic period > * Arunadi month sequence starts with the month of Aruna – > i.e. the year used to begin with the month of Aruna. > Solar Months > Differentiating Tropical Solar and Sidereal Solar Months > > Even if we identify that some month sequences are Solar (due the absence > of extra months, due to the presence of impure months etc), how can we > differentiate between the two types of Solar months – i.e. Tropical > Solar and Sidereal Solar? The only arguments that we can take help from > are as follows – > > * The tropical solar months will have names that reflect the > seasons which they represent. i.e. The meaning of the words used as > month names will point to the seasons they represent. > * For tropical month names - at all periods of time, people > would be referring to particular months with a particular season > with the same name itself. > * The sidereal month names will have names that associate them > with the stellar or Nakshatra belt. > * Just like the description about the movement of equinoxes or > solstices through Nakshtras, descriptions about the movement of > equinoxes or solstices through Sidereal Months (Signs) would be > available. > > It is in the absence of clear pointers as stated above that people fall > into the confusion of whether to consider some month sequences given in > Vedas as Tropical Solar or Sidereal Solar. The same happened with > Madhuvadi months and Bajadi months as well, even every one were certain > that Meshadi months are sidereal solar months in nature. > > > > The possible candidates for Solar Vedic months are Madhuvadi, Bajadi and > Meshadi months. Let us discuss them one by one. > > > > Madhuvadi > > Some people consider these month sequences as tropical and some as > sidereal. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean > seems to have originated from a single Taitireeya Brahmnama quote, which > states that " during that period spring season started with Madhu > masa " . Some argue that one Rk Vedanga Jyotisha quote also > substantiates the above statement. The quote reads as follows – > > Madhuscha madhavascha vasantikavritu, Suktrascha suchischa graishmavritu > > Nabhascha nabhasyascha varshikavritu, Ishaschorjascha saradavritu > > Sahascha sahasyascha haimantikavritu, Tapascha tapasyascha saisiravritu > > (Taitireeya brahmana 4-4-11) > > [(During the period of Taitireeya brahmana) Vasanta ritu is composed of > Madhu and Madhava, Greeshma ritu is composed of Sukra and Suchi, Varsha > ritu is composed of Nabha and Nabhasya, Sarad ritu is composed of Isha > and Urja, Hemanta ritu is composed of Saha and Sahasya, Sisira ritu is > composed of Tapa and Tapasya] > > Now this quote can have two type of interpretation – one by > considering these Vedic months as tropical solar and other by > considering them as sidereal solar. The only possible third > interpretation would be of treating this quote as erroneous. Since it is > one of the rare evidences related Madhuvadi month sequences we have, let > us accept this quote as true and sincere and try to know the possible > interpretations. > > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Tropical Solar months > > The popular interpretation is of treating Madhuvadi months as Tropical > solar. This interpretation would mean that, what ever the time period be > – Madhu and Madhava would be the months of Vasanta ritu; Sukra and > Suchi would be the months of Greeshma ritu and so on. But then again > there are two opinions about where the vasanta ritu starts – as per > one tradition vernal equinox comes at the beginning of Vasanta ritu, and > as per the other it is in the middle of vasanta ritu. The first one is > popular in India, while is the second is popular in the west. > > > > a) Vernal equinox at the beginning of Vasanta Ritu > > Sl > > Madhuvadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Season > > 1 > > Madhu > > Mar 21 – Apr 21 > > Vasanta > > > > 2 > > Madhav > > Apr 21 – May 21 > > 3 > > Sukra > > May 21 – Jun 21 > > Greeshma > > 4 > > Suchi > > Jun 21 – Jul 21 > > 5 > > Nabha > > Jul 21 – Aug 21 > > Varsha > > 6 > > Nabhasya > > Aug 21 – Sep 21 > > 7 > > Isha > > Sep 21 – Oct 21 > > Sarat > > 8 > > Urja > > Oct 21 – Nov 21 > > 9 > > Saha > > Nov 21 – Dec 21 > > Hemanata > > 10 > > Sahasya > > Dec 21 – Jan 21 > > 11 > > Tapa > > Jan 21 – Feb 21 > > Sisira > > 12 > > Tapasya > > Feb 21 – Mar 21 > > > > b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu > > Sl > > Madhuvadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Season > > 1 > > Madhu > > Mar 5 – Apr 5 > > Vasanta > > > > 2 > > Madhav > > Apr 5 – May 5 > > 3 > > Sukra > > May 5 – Jun 5 > > Greeshma > > 4 > > Suchi > > Jun 5 – Jul 5 > > 5 > > Nabha > > Jul 5 – Aug 5 > > Varsha > > 6 > > Nabhasya > > Aug 5 – Sep 5 > > 7 > > Isha > > Sep 5 – Oct 5 > > Sarat > > 8 > > Urja > > Oct 5 – Nov 5 > > 9 > > Saha > > Nov 5 – Dec 5 > > Hemanata > > 10 > > Sahasya > > Dec 5 – Jan 5 > > 11 > > Tapa > > Jan 5 – Feb 5 > > Sisira > > 12 > > Tapasya > > Feb 21 – Mar 21 > > Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select any > one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the > popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not > seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points > – > > * If we accept this system we will have to accept that – > > * Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and > Tapasya mean hot) > * Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky > seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky') > * Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot > seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic > holds good for all month names. > * Even though throughout the sequence there is only one month > name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will > have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead > Madhu masa. > > These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of > considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the > popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes > that these months are Tropical solar in nature. > > [[but then again question remains – Why then the BC 1400 text Rk > Vedanga Jyotisha text also refer to the month of Tapa and tell as that > it is in tune with Vedic Magha? Does it not point to the fact that > Madhuvadi months are Tropical Solar itself? I don't have an answer > to this question as of now – and so move forward, in order to > consider the other possibilities.]] > > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months > > What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the > above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that period > the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would be > helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, provided > we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu, > Madhava etc. > > But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the first > reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons with > the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves > through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different > months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any such > evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references. > > 1) Linga Purana > > (Source: > http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madh\ > u+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0\ > & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#\ > PPA39,M1 > <http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=mad\ > hu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz\ > 0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3\ > #PPA39,M1> ) Ref to page 39. > > The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana – > > " According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are > months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of > Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and > Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta " > > > > 2) Taitireeya Brahmana > > According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of > Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja of > Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira. > > > > The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from > Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same > seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in > nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months! > > > > Now I am equipped with the following info – > > * These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only > month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning) > * These Vedic months are sidereal in nature > > > > With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption > – > > * Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - > Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal > location. That should be the very reason for listing these months > starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual > starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been > Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence – > > > > Sl > > Ishadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Tuladi > > 1 > > Isha > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > Tula > > 2 > > Urja > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > Virschika > > 3 > > Saha > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > Dhanu > > 4 > > Sahasya > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > Makara > > 5 > > Tapa > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > Kumbha > > 6 > > Tapasya > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > Meena > > 7 > > Madhu > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > Mesha > > 8 > > Madhav > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > Vrishabha > > 9 > > Sukra > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > Mithuna > > 10 > > Suchi > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > Karkitaka > > 11 > > Nabha > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > Simha > > 12 > > Nabhasya > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > Kanya > > > > So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence that > was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, Madhuvadi > sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table. > > Sl > > Madhuvadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Meshadi > > 1 > > Madhu > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > Mesha > > 2 > > Madhav > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > Vrishabha > > 3 > > Sukra > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > Mithuna > > 4 > > Suchi > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > Karkitaka > > 5 > > Nabha > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > Simha > > 6 > > Nabhasya > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > Kanya > > 7 > > Isha > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > Tula > > 8 > > Urja > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > Virschika > > 9 > > Saha > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > Dhanu > > 10 > > Sahasya > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > Makara > > 11 > > Tapa > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > Kumbha > > 12 > > Tapasya > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > Meena > > > > Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually I > am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I > think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due > to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was in > use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have been > in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra > sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared a > common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these > references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or > falsehood of my assumption. > > > > Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana > > Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the > Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have? > > Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half of > first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that > period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280). > True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was > composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our derived > information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with > modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic > texts as well. > > > > What about the period referred to by Linga Purana? > > Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava > is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun > 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view, > Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu – > possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox > to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is > referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin > than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better > understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal > months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident > from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of > astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of > later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva traditional > teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the > traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by > Linga Purana – > > > > Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two > apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on the > Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the > seasons are given below. > > a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya and > pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala and > Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. Uraga > and Vasuki. > > b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and > Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and > Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka and > one other (name not mentioned) > > c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus and > Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha > and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and > Shankhapala > > d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja > an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji > and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an > Iravan. > > e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and > Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and > Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and > Karkataka. > > f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, Jamadagni > and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the > Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and Yakshopeta; > the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara. > > (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself) > > Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and > the knowledge it shares is always like that! > > > > (To be continued……) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Sreenadh-ji, One request, if not already done by you, please put is brilliant article on the group website. Regards Souvik , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > (Continued from previous mail..............) > > > 12 > > Tapasya > > Feb 21 – Mar 21 > > > > b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu > > Sl > > Madhuvadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Season > > 1 > > Madhu > > Mar 5 – Apr 5 > > Vasanta > > > > 2 > > Madhav > > Apr 5 – May 5 > > 3 > > Sukra > > May 5 – Jun 5 > > Greeshma > > 4 > > Suchi > > Jun 5 – Jul 5 > > 5 > > Nabha > > Jul 5 – Aug 5 > > Varsha > > 6 > > Nabhasya > > Aug 5 – Sep 5 > > 7 > > Isha > > Sep 5 – Oct 5 > > Sarat > > 8 > > Urja > > Oct 5 – Nov 5 > > 9 > > Saha > > Nov 5 – Dec 5 > > Hemanata > > 10 > > Sahasya > > Dec 5 – Jan 5 > > 11 > > Tapa > > Jan 5 – Feb 5 > > Sisira > > 12 > > Tapasya > > Feb 5 – Mar 5 > > Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select any > one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is the > popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do not > seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points > – > > * If we accept this system we will have to accept that – > > * Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and > Tapasya mean hot) > * Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky > seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky') > * Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot > seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic > holds good for all month names. > * Even though throughout the sequence there is only one month > name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will > have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead > Madhu masa. > > These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of > considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the > popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes > that these months are Tropical solar in nature. > > > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months > > What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then the > above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that period > the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would be > helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well, provided > we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as Madhu, > Madhava etc. > > But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the first > reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons with > the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves > through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different > months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any such > evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such references. > > 1) Linga Purana > > (Source: > http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madh\ > u+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0\ > & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#\ > PPA39,M1 > <http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=mad\ > hu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz\ > 0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3\ > #PPA39,M1> ) Ref to page 39. > > The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana – > > " According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are > months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of > Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and > Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta " > > > > 2) Taitireeya Brahmana > > According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of > Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha, Isha-Urja of > Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira. > > > > The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other from > Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same > seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in > nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal months! > > > > Now I am equipped with the following info – > > * These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only > month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning) > * These Vedic months are sidereal in nature > > > > With this much understanding, I daringly add the following assumption > – > > * Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi - > Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal > location. That should be the very reason for listing these months > starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual > starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been > Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence – > > > > Sl > > Ishadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Tuladi > > 1 > > Isha > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > Tula > > 2 > > Urja > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > Virschika > > 3 > > Saha > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > Dhanu > > 4 > > Sahasya > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > Makara > > 5 > > Tapa > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > Kumbha > > 6 > > Tapasya > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > Meena > > 7 > > Madhu > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > Mesha > > 8 > > Madhav > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > Vrishabha > > 9 > > Sukra > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > Mithuna > > 10 > > Suchi > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > Karkitaka > > 11 > > Nabha > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > Simha > > 12 > > Nabhasya > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > Kanya > > > > So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence that > was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi, Madhuvadi > sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table. > > Sl > > Madhuvadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Meshadi > > 1 > > Madhu > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > Mesha > > 2 > > Madhav > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > Vrishabha > > 3 > > Sukra > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > Mithuna > > 4 > > Suchi > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > Karkitaka > > 5 > > Nabha > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > Simha > > 6 > > Nabhasya > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > Kanya > > 7 > > Isha > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > Tula > > 8 > > Urja > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > Virschika > > 9 > > Saha > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > Dhanu > > 10 > > Sahasya > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > Makara > > 11 > > Tapa > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > Kumbha > > 12 > > Tapasya > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > Meena > > > > Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha? Actually I > am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So I > think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially due > to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence was in > use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have been > in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal Nakshatra > sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have shared a > common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these > references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or > falsehood of my assumption. > > > > Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga Purana > > Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the > Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have? > > Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half of > first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that > period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD 280). > True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was > composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our derived > information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune with > modern historical and literary understanding about the period of Vedic > texts as well. > > > > What about the period referred to by Linga Purana? > > Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where Madhu-Madhava > is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till Jun > 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view, > Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu – > possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal equinox > to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is > referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later origin > than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better > understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal > months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident > from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of > astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text of > later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva traditional > teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the > traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided by > Linga Purana – > > > > Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two > apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on the > Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the > seasons are given below. > > a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya and > pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala and > Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,. Uraga > and Vasuki. > > b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and > Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and > Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka and > one other (name not mentioned) > > c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus and > Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras, Pramlocha > and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra and > Shankhapala > > d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja > an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras, Gritaji > and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an > Iravan. > > e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and > Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani and > Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma and > Karkataka. > > f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages, Jamadagni > and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the > Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and Yakshopeta; > the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara. > > (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself) > > Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and > the knowledge it shares is always like that! > > > > Rk Vedanga Jyotisha and a secret encoded > > With this much clear understanding about Madhuvadi Vedic months, let us > turn to the people who argue in favor of tropical solar months, quoting > the following – > > Swarakramete somarkau yada sarkam savasavau > > Syat tadadi yugam maghascha tapa suklo(a)yanam hyudak > > > > (Verse 6 Vedanga jyotish) > > [When the sun and the moon rise together in Dhanistha Nakshatra, then > the five year yuga, Maagha, Tapa, Sukla pakshya and Uttarayana start > together] > > > > This statement is absolutely true for the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha period of > BC 1400. But still it does not prove that Madhuvadi months are Tropical > but only substantiate the argument that Tapa is a sidereal month in > tune with Makara. > > Actually this quote even gives us a clue to deny all arguments in favor > of Vedic tropical months itself, and to clarify the luni-solar > (Chaitradi, Arunadi) and Sidereal (Madhuvadi, Aswinyadi, Meshadi) base > of the Vedic calendar system! How? I will explain. > > > > When we say that - " Equinox traverse through Nakshatras " what we mean? > Do we mean that the " The starting point of Nakshatras change with the > movement of vernal equinox " or that " The position of Equinox change but > Nakshatras remain fixed " ? Ofcourse we know that it is the second - i.e. > The Nakshatras remain fixed (27 Nakshatras having 13 deg 28 min each), > and the equinox traverse through them gradually " - right? I know that > you will not disagree on the fact that based on equinoxes and solstices > seasons can be measured. > > Now if I say - Seasons (represented by seasons or equinox) started with > Vasanta Ritu in Madhu Masa what will you interpret? In the absence of > any other poof regarding whether Madhu Masa is sidereal solar or > tropical solar, you may have two choices - > > 1) Consider that " the starting point of Months change with the > movement of vernal equinox " (The erroneous argument in the case of > Nakshatras as mentioned earlier!) > > 2) Consider that " The position of Equinox change but Moths remain > fixed " ! (The correct argument in the case of Nakshatras as exemplified > earlier!) > > > > Now in presence of the proof from Linga Purana to show that `Seasons > move through Madhuvadi months' we are left with no other choice but > to accept the truth regarding Vedic Nakshatras and Madhuvadi months– > they both are sidereal in nature. Enough of our time already wasted by > many erroneously trying to prove that Maghuvadi vedic months are > tropical solar (or some fools even coin a new tern `tropical > lunar'!) – a view supported neither by Vedas nor by logic. So > what do you say - whether this Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc are > sidereal solar or tropical solar? After all these proofs as supporting > arguments, do we have a choice, except to accept that Madhuvadi are > sidereal in nature? > > > > By providing the info that winter solstice was at Dhanishta Nakshatra > (and thus that it was moving through Nakshatras), Rk Vedanga Jyotisha is > providing us with a clear clue for the fact that many systems it speak > about is of sidereal in nature. The same is true for sidereal lunar > Aswinyadi Nakshatras, and the same is true for Madhuvadi sidereal solar > vedic month sequence. > > > Meshadi > There are many proofs available to state that just like the various > other month names sequences, Meshadi month names were also in extensive > use during Vedic period itself. Actually it is be less popularity of > Madhu-Madhavadi months, and the systematic approach of connecting > sidereal month names with stellar constellations visible in sky that > made caused the popularity of Meshadi month names. In the same way > Chaitradi month names are scientific and systematic (since they > associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Moon), Meshadi month > names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal > Nakshatras with the movement of Sun). This is the very reason for both > Chaitradi Lunar months and Meshadi Solar Sidereal months becoming much > popular than any other system in the course of time – it was just > the survival of the best and the fittest system. > > > > Sl > > Meshadi > > Gregorian Date > > (approx) > > Madhuvadi > > 1 > > Mesha > > Apr 14 – May 14 > > Madhu > > 2 > > Vrishabha > > May 14 – Jun 14 > > Madhav > > 3 > > Mithuna > > Jun 14 – Jul 14 > > Sukra > > 4 > > Karkitaka > > Jul 14 – Aug 14 > > Suchi > > 5 > > Simha > > Aug 14 – Sep 14 > > Nabha > > 6 > > Kanya > > Sep 14 – Oct 14 > > Nabhasya > > 7 > > Tula > > Oct 14 – Nov 14 > > Isha > > 8 > > Virschika > > Nov 14 – Dec 14 > > Urja > > 9 > > Dhanu > > Dec 14 – Jan 14 > > Saha > > 10 > > Makara > > Jan 14 – Feb 14 > > Sahasya > > 11 > > Kumbha > > Feb 14 – Mar 14 > > Tapa > > 12 > > Meena > > Mar 14 – Apr 14 > > Tapasya > > > > Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month names > in Vedic period is given below – > > 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It > reads as follows - > > Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH > > te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH > > (Yajur > Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) > > [Take the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign), > ...................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan > prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. That > proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga Jyotisha > period. > > 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach > the 11th sloka. It reads – > > Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset > > Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun > > (Rk > Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11) > > Please notice the words - " Prag vilangnan " (From the eastern LAGNA; from > the eastern RISING SIGN) " Lagna " means, " Raseenam Udayo Lagna " (The SIGN > rising in the east is termed LAGNA). > > 3) Take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote > that reads - " Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH " [The Vasanta > Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the > period of time and geographical location)] > > 4) Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings > such as - " Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya " , " Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam " > etc etc. > > 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows > – > > Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH > > masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH > > [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi; > Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) - > then that month is known with the special name " Maliplucha " (the unclean > month)] > > This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in existence > and use during Vedic period. > > 6) If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for > you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs > in all of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous other > Puranas. > > > > Other type of Months > > Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and > Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were ascribed > to them. > > > > Conclusion > > In this article I tried to discuss the various month name sequences used > in Vedic period, and tried to decipher the nature of those months in > detail. The general understanding arrived at is that – > > * only Lunar (luni-solar) and Solar Sidereal months were in used > during Vedic period in India and > * no tropical month sequences were in use in Vedic period in > India > > In other words all tropical month sequences are imported and not all > Indian or Vedic in nature. The Kaulians who argue in favor of existence > of Tropical month names in Vedas are totally baseless and lack even the > basic understanding of month name sequences used in Vedas. > > - 0 - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 respected Bhaskar ji many thanks for ur good words i know u r reading those articles as u expressed also many times over phone to me thanks and rgrds sunil nair , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear Shri Sreenadhji and Shri Sunil Nairji,> > This is just to acknolwedge that Your articles and write ups are much> awaited and appreciated, though we may not respond to every article due> to numerous reasons, but they are certainly noticed, read and the hard> work and efforts observed nevertheless.> > Sreenadhji I know you keep late hours at night and were busy working at> 1.15am too last night approving mails, and same with Shri Nairji, and> Neelamji. All this does not go unnoticed.> > Sunilji your last articles on Nadi and Samkhya were read by me with> deep interest and wished to reply, but then if I had begun writing then> I know there was much to write and would have covered many pages. So I> held myself back.> > Thank You for making this Group what it is.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > > -- In , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> >> > dear sreenadh ji> >> > very good excellent work indeed ,> >> > This has blown out all of the so called calender reformists arguemnts> > ( who uses it as cover to proselyte hindus saying all the astrological> > knowledge got frm other culture by infucing inferiority complex and> same> > time getting support frm some religious hardlines who is ignorent of> all> > this concepts and hidden agenda is total destruction of full hindu> > culture ) arguemtns against there is no rasi concept in jyothisha> > ,there is no predictiv astrology or even astronomy etc in vedas etc> ,and> > even goes to the extent that all rasies and astrological references> > clearly said in all purnas and allied vedic litterature is> > interpolation after india influenced by one maya the mlecha ( he was> > givn status of greek by them to support their views where as it is> > clearly said his name was Mayasura )> >> > and> >> > Same time some so called vedic astrologers saying sayana tropical> zodiac> > is what mentioned in vedas and there is no proof of siderial nakshtra> > zodiac or the concept is doubtful ,so we shud adopt and use sayana> > tropical zodiac as they dont blv in subjuctiv reality> >> > so thanks for this brilliant article> >> > it need further efforts to clarify some points which we neeed some> more> > time and i am sure we can dig out more truth and reality ,so long we> > respect rishi vkyas and anchored with their imparted knowldge we will> > hav their blessing too for any future endevours in jyothisha and will> > come out as diamonds which has gone tru polishing> >> > keep it up> >> > regrds sunil nair> >> >> >> > , "Sreenadh"> > sreesog@ wrote:> > >> > > (Continued from previous mail..............)> > >> > >> > > 12> > >> > > Tapasya> > >> > > Feb 21 – Mar 21> > >> > >> > >> > > b) Vernal equinox at the middle of Vasanta Ritu> > >> > > Sl> > >> > > Madhuvadi> > >> > > Gregorian Date> > >> > > (approx)> > >> > > Season> > >> > > 1> > >> > > Madhu> > >> > > Mar 5 – Apr 5> > >> > > Vasanta> > >> > >> > >> > > 2> > >> > > Madhav> > >> > > Apr 5 – May 5> > >> > > 3> > >> > > Sukra> > >> > > May 5 – Jun 5> > >> > > Greeshma> > >> > > 4> > >> > > Suchi> > >> > > Jun 5 – Jul 5> > >> > > 5> > >> > > Nabha> > >> > > Jul 5 – Aug 5> > >> > > Varsha> > >> > > 6> > >> > > Nabhasya> > >> > > Aug 5 – Sep 5> > >> > > 7> > >> > > Isha> > >> > > Sep 5 – Oct 5> > >> > > Sarat> > >> > > 8> > >> > > Urja> > >> > > Oct 5 – Nov 5> > >> > > 9> > >> > > Saha> > >> > > Nov 5 – Dec 5> > >> > > Hemanata> > >> > > 10> > >> > > Sahasya> > >> > > Dec 5 – Jan 5> > >> > > 11> > >> > > Tapa> > >> > > Jan 5 – Feb 5> > >> > > Sisira> > >> > > 12> > >> > > Tapasya> > >> > > Feb 5 – Mar 5> > >> > > Some one who considers Madhuvadi months as Tropical solar can select> > any> > > one of these opinions. Let us consider the first opinion (which is> the> > > popular one), and try to understand the same. Madhuvadi months do> not> > > seem to be `Tropical months' considering the following points> > > –> > >> > > * If we accept this system we will have to accept that –> > >> > > * Vedic sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa> > and> > > Tapasya mean hot)> > > * Vedic sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky> > > seasons! (Nabha and Nabhasya mean `clean sky')> > > * Similarly we will have to wonder why they named the hot> > > seasons as white (sukra) and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic> > > holds good for all month names.> > > * Even though throughout the sequence there is only one> > month> > > name with the meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will> > > have to accept that Isha is not the beginning month but instead> > > Madhu masa.> > >> > > These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility of> > > considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the> > > popular opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who> > assumes> > > that these months are Tropical solar in nature.> > >> > >> > >> > > Interpreting Madhuvadi as Sidereal Solar months> > >> > > What if we treat these month names as Sidereal Solar months? Then> the> > > above Taitireeya brahmana quote will simply mean that during that> > period> > > the seasons were in tune with those sidereal months. This info would> > be> > > helpful to us even in dating Taitireeya brahmana text as well,> > provided> > > we know which area of the sky is indicated by the names such as> Madhu,> > > Madhava etc.> > >> > > But to strongly argue that these months are Sidereal in nature the> > first> > > reference we need is that of somebody associating different seasons> > with> > > the same month names. i.e. Since the solstices and equinoxes moves> > > through the sidereal months at different periods of time, different> > > months should get associated with the same seasons. Do we have any> > such> > > evidence to quote? Yes – We do! Let me share two such> references.> > >> > > 1) Linga Purana> > >> > > (Source:> > >> >> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=madh\> \> > \> > >> >> u+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz0\> \> > \> > >> >> & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3#\> \> > \> > > PPA39,M1> > >> >> <http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zhIbyxoxHMgC & pg=PA39 & lpg=PA39 & dq=mad\> \> > \> > >> >> hu+madhav+months & source=bl & ots=twVTTMeRgn & sig=AWXpO1U14AJrYADzYdEvqtbbJz\> \> > \> > >> >> 0 & hl=en & ei=p23sSfG_LMuUkAXe7JyoCA & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=3\> \> > \> > > #PPA39,M1> ) Ref to page 39.> > >> > > The above link provides the following info from Linga Purana –> > >> > > "According to this account (i.e Linga purana) Madhu and Madhava are> > > months of Greeshma, Sukra and Suchi of Varsha, Nabha and Nabhasya of> > > Sharata, Isha and Urja of Hemanta, Saha and Sahasya of Sheeta and> > > Tapa-Tapasya of Vasanta"> > >> > >> > >> > > 2) Taitireeya Brahmana> > >> > > According to Taitireeya Brahmana Madhu-Madhava are the months of> > > Vasanta, Sukra-Suchi of Greeshma, Nabha-Nabhasya of Varsha,> Isha-Urja> > of> > > Sarat, Saha-Sahasya of Hemanta and Tapa-Tapasya of Sisira.> > >> > >> > >> > > The above two accounts – one from Linga purana and the other> from> > > Taitireeya Brahmana – associates different months with the same> > > seasons; a clear evidence to prove that those months are sidereal in> > > nature and that the seasons are moving through those sidereal> months!> > >> > >> > >> > > Now I am equipped with the following info –> > >> > > * These Vedic months starts with Isha (since it is the only> > > month in the sequence with the meaning repeating or beginning)> > > * These Vedic months are sidereal in nature> > >> > >> > >> > > With this much understanding, I daringly add the following> assumption> > > –> > >> > > * Just like the other sidereal month sequence Meshadi -> > > Madhuvadi must also have been starting on the same sidereal> > > location. That should be the very reason for listing these months> > > starting from Madhu masa instead of Isha which is the actual> > > starting point of this month sequence. Then Ishadi must have been> > > Tuladi month sequence itself. Thus I get the following sequence> –> > >> > >> > >> > > Sl> > >> > > Ishadi> > >> > > Gregorian Date> > >> > > (approx)> > >> > > Tuladi> > >> > > 1> > >> > > Isha> > >> > > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > >> > > Tula> > >> > > 2> > >> > > Urja> > >> > > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > >> > > Virschika> > >> > > 3> > >> > > Saha> > >> > > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > >> > > Dhanu> > >> > > 4> > >> > > Sahasya> > >> > > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > >> > > Makara> > >> > > 5> > >> > > Tapa> > >> > > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > >> > > Kumbha> > >> > > 6> > >> > > Tapasya> > >> > > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > >> > > Meena> > >> > > 7> > >> > > Madhu> > >> > > Apr 14 – May 14> > >> > > Mesha> > >> > > 8> > >> > > Madhav> > >> > > May 14 – Jun 14> > >> > > Vrishabha> > >> > > 9> > >> > > Sukra> > >> > > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > >> > > Mithuna> > >> > > 10> > >> > > Suchi> > >> > > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > >> > > Karkitaka> > >> > > 11> > >> > > Nabha> > >> > > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > >> > > Simha> > >> > > 12> > >> > > Nabhasya> > >> > > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > >> > > Kanya> > >> > >> > >> > > So this was the original Vedic Ishadi sidereal solar month sequence> > that> > > was in use! What if I arrange it just like the normal Meshadi,> > Madhuvadi> > > sidereal month sequence? Then I will get the following table.> > >> > > Sl> > >> > > Madhuvadi> > >> > > Gregorian Date> > >> > > (approx)> > >> > > Meshadi> > >> > > 1> > >> > > Madhu> > >> > > Apr 14 – May 14> > >> > > Mesha> > >> > > 2> > >> > > Madhav> > >> > > May 14 – Jun 14> > >> > > Vrishabha> > >> > > 3> > >> > > Sukra> > >> > > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > >> > > Mithuna> > >> > > 4> > >> > > Suchi> > >> > > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > >> > > Karkitaka> > >> > > 5> > >> > > Nabha> > >> > > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > >> > > Simha> > >> > > 6> > >> > > Nabhasya> > >> > > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > >> > > Kanya> > >> > > 7> > >> > > Isha> > >> > > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > >> > > Tula> > >> > > 8> > >> > > Urja> > >> > > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > >> > > Virschika> > >> > > 9> > >> > > Saha> > >> > > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > >> > > Dhanu> > >> > > 10> > >> > > Sahasya> > >> > > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > >> > > Makara> > >> > > 11> > >> > > Tapa> > >> > > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > >> > > Kumbha> > >> > > 12> > >> > > Tapasya> > >> > > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > >> > > Meena> > >> > >> > >> > > Am I certain about the fact that Madhu is in tune with Mesha?> Actually> > I> > > am not. But I am certain that the Madhu is sidereal solar month. So> I> > > think, I can daringly take the risk of this assumption, especially> due> > > to the fact that both the Madhuvadi sequence and Meshadi sequence> was> > in> > > use during Vedic times – if both were sidereal, they must have> > been> > > in tune with each other. The same was true for the sidereal> Nakshatra> > > sequence Aswinyadi as well – all sidereal systems must have> shared> > a> > > common starting point. Further the dating of text in which these> > > references occur also should help me to evaluate the truthfulness or> > > falsehood of my assumption.> > >> > >> > >> > > Dating the references provided by Taitireeya Brahmana and Linga> Purana> > >> > > Now how can this whole understanding help us in interpreting the> > > Tatireeya Brahmana quote we have?> > >> > > Modern scholars consider Taitireeya brahmana as a text of first half> > of> > > first millennium BC – i.e. between BC 500 to 1 BC. During that> > > period the vernal equinox was in Aswini Nakshatra (BC 680 to AD> 280).> > > True, during the period of Taitireeya brahmana, Vasanta ritu was> > > composed of Madhu-Madhava (Mesha-Vrishabha). This means that our> > derived> > > information about the Madhuvadi sidereal solar months is in tune> with> > > modern historical and literary understanding about the period of> Vedic> > > texts as well.> > >> > >> > >> > > What about the period referred to by Linga Purana?> > >> > > Linga purana is referring to the current scenario, where> Madhu-Madhava> > > is in tune with the Greeshama season (hot season from Apr 14 till> Jun> > > 14). Where would be Vansanta Ritu? As per linga purana view,> > > Tapa-Tapasya (Feb 14th to Apr 14th) indicate the Vasanta ritu –> > > possibly pointing to the fact that Linga purana assumes vernal> equinox> > > to be at the middle of Vasanta ritu. This means that Linga Purana is> > > referring to the current scenario itself and is a text of later> origin> > > than Taitireeya Brahmana. But it does seems to contain better> > > understanding about the usefulness and application of these sidereal> > > months (than the lone quote of Taitireeya Brahmana) – as evident> > > from the detailed correlation of seasons and many other factors of> > > astrological predictive usefulness. Linga purana even though a text> of> > > later day origin, seems to have preserved the original Saiva> > traditional> > > teachings and the connected Tantric wisdom. Any one could feel the> > > traditional roots of this wisdom from the following words provided> by> > > Linga Purana –> > >> > >> > >> > > Every season has two adityas (gods), two sages, two gandharvas, two> > > apsaras, two rakshasas (demons), and two nagas (snakes) that ride on> > the> > > Sun's chariot to keep the Sun company. Their names along with the> > > seasons are given below.> > >> > > a) Greeshma: The Adityas, Dhata and Aryama; the sages, pulastya> > and> > > pulaha; the gandharvas, Tumburu and Narada; the Apsaras, Kritasthala> > and> > > Punjikasthala; the Rakshasas, Raksholeti and Prabeti; the Nagas,.> > Uraga> > > and Vasuki.> > >> > > b) Varsha: The Adityas, Mitra and Varuna; the sages, Atri and> > > Vashishtha; the Gandharvas, Haha and Huhu; The Apsaras, Menaka and> > > Sahajanya, the Rakshasas, Paurucheya and Vadha; the Nagas, Takshaka> > and> > > one other (name not mentioned)> > >> > > c) Sharat: The Adityas Indra and Vivasvana; the sages, Angirus> > and> > > Bhrigu; the Gandharvas, Vishvavasu and Ugasha; the Apsaras,> Pramlocha> > > and Arumlocha; the Rakshasas, Sarpa and Vyagha; the Nagas Elapatra> and> > > Shankhapala> > >> > > d) Hemanta: The Adityas Parjanya and Pusha; the sages, Bharadwaja> > > an Gautama; the Gandharvas, Suruchi and Paravasu; the Apsaras,> Gritaji> > > and Vishvachi; the Rakshasas, Ape and vata; the Nagas, Dhananjaya an> > > Iravan.> > >> > > e) Sheeta: The Adityas, Anshu and Bhaga; the sages, Kasyapa and> > > Kratu; the Gandharvas, Chitrasena and Urnayu; the Apsaras, Urvani> and> > > Purvachitti, the Rakshasas, Vidyuta and Diva; the Nagas, Mahapadma> and> > > Karkataka.> > >> > > f) Vasanta: The Adityas, Twashta and Vishnu; the sages,> > Jamadagni> > > and Viswamitra; the Gandharvas, Dhritarashtra and Suryavarcha, the> > > Apsaras, Tilottama and Rambha; the Rakshasas, Brahmopeta and> > Yakshopeta;> > > the Nagas, Kambana and Ashvatara.> > >> > > (Source: Quoted from the earlier Linga purana reference itself)> > >> > > Wasn't that informative and useful? The Saiva tantric tradition and> > > the knowledge it shares is always like that!> > >> > >> > >> > > Rk Vedanga Jyotisha and a secret encoded> > >> > > With this much clear understanding about Madhuvadi Vedic months, let> > us> > > turn to the people who argue in favor of tropical solar months,> > quoting> > > the following –> > >> > > Swarakramete somarkau yada sarkam savasavau> > >> > > Syat tadadi yugam maghascha tapa suklo(a)yanam hyudak> > >> > >> > >> > > (Verse 6 Vedanga jyotish)> > >> > > [When the sun and the moon rise together in Dhanistha Nakshatra,> then> > > the five year yuga, Maagha, Tapa, Sukla pakshya and Uttarayana start> > > together]> > >> > >> > >> > > This statement is absolutely true for the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha period> > of> > > BC 1400. But still it does not prove that Madhuvadi months are> > Tropical> > > but only substantiate the argument that Tapa is a sidereal month in> > > tune with Makara.> > >> > > Actually this quote even gives us a clue to deny all arguments in> > favor> > > of Vedic tropical months itself, and to clarify the luni-solar> > > (Chaitradi, Arunadi) and Sidereal (Madhuvadi, Aswinyadi, Meshadi)> base> > > of the Vedic calendar system! How? I will explain.> > >> > >> > >> > > When we say that - "Equinox traverse through Nakshatras" what we> mean?> > > Do we mean that the "The starting point of Nakshatras change with> the> > > movement of vernal equinox" or that "The position of Equinox change> > but> > > Nakshatras remain fixed"? Ofcourse we know that it is the second -> > i.e.> > > The Nakshatras remain fixed (27 Nakshatras having 13 deg 28 min> each),> > > and the equinox traverse through them gradually" - right? I know> that> > > you will not disagree on the fact that based on equinoxes and> > solstices> > > seasons can be measured.> > >> > > Now if I say - Seasons (represented by seasons or equinox) started> > with> > > Vasanta Ritu in Madhu Masa what will you interpret? In the absence> of> > > any other poof regarding whether Madhu Masa is sidereal solar or> > > tropical solar, you may have two choices -> > >> > > 1) Consider that "the starting point of Months change with the> > > movement of vernal equinox" (The erroneous argument in the case of> > > Nakshatras as mentioned earlier!)> > >> > > 2) Consider that "The position of Equinox change but Moths remain> > > fixed"! (The correct argument in the case of Nakshatras as> exemplified> > > earlier!)> > >> > >> > >> > > Now in presence of the proof from Linga Purana to show that `Seasons> > > move through Madhuvadi months' we are left with no other choice but> > > to accept the truth regarding Vedic Nakshatras and Madhuvadi> > months–> > > they both are sidereal in nature. Enough of our time already wasted> by> > > many erroneously trying to prove that Maghuvadi vedic months are> > > tropical solar (or some fools even coin a new tern `tropical> > > lunar'!) – a view supported neither by Vedas nor by logic. So> > > what do you say - whether this Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc are> > > sidereal solar or tropical solar? After all these proofs as> supporting> > > arguments, do we have a choice, except to accept that Madhuvadi are> > > sidereal in nature?> > >> > >> > >> > > By providing the info that winter solstice was at Dhanishta> Nakshatra> > > (and thus that it was moving through Nakshatras), Rk Vedanga> Jyotisha> > is> > > providing us with a clear clue for the fact that many systems it> speak> > > about is of sidereal in nature. The same is true for sidereal lunar> > > Aswinyadi Nakshatras, and the same is true for Madhuvadi sidereal> > solar> > > vedic month sequence.> > >> > >> > > Meshadi> > > There are many proofs available to state that just like the various> > > other month names sequences, Meshadi month names were also in> > extensive> > > use during Vedic period itself. Actually it is be less popularity of> > > Madhu-Madhavadi months, and the systematic approach of connecting> > > sidereal month names with stellar constellations visible in sky that> > > made caused the popularity of Meshadi month names. In the same way> > > Chaitradi month names are scientific and systematic (since they> > > associate sidereal Nakshatras with the movement of Moon), Meshadi> > month> > > names are scientific and systematic (since they associate sidereal> > > Nakshatras with the movement of Sun). This is the very reason for> both> > > Chaitradi Lunar months and Meshadi Solar Sidereal months becoming> much> > > popular than any other system in the course of time – it was> just> > > the survival of the best and the fittest system.> > >> > >> > >> > > Sl> > >> > > Meshadi> > >> > > Gregorian Date> > >> > > (approx)> > >> > > Madhuvadi> > >> > > 1> > >> > > Mesha> > >> > > Apr 14 – May 14> > >> > > Madhu> > >> > > 2> > >> > > Vrishabha> > >> > > May 14 – Jun 14> > >> > > Madhav> > >> > > 3> > >> > > Mithuna> > >> > > Jun 14 – Jul 14> > >> > > Sukra> > >> > > 4> > >> > > Karkitaka> > >> > > Jul 14 – Aug 14> > >> > > Suchi> > >> > > 5> > >> > > Simha> > >> > > Aug 14 – Sep 14> > >> > > Nabha> > >> > > 6> > >> > > Kanya> > >> > > Sep 14 – Oct 14> > >> > > Nabhasya> > >> > > 7> > >> > > Tula> > >> > > Oct 14 – Nov 14> > >> > > Isha> > >> > > 8> > >> > > Virschika> > >> > > Nov 14 – Dec 14> > >> > > Urja> > >> > > 9> > >> > > Dhanu> > >> > > Dec 14 – Jan 14> > >> > > Saha> > >> > > 10> > >> > > Makara> > >> > > Jan 14 – Feb 14> > >> > > Sahasya> > >> > > 11> > >> > > Kumbha> > >> > > Feb 14 – Mar 14> > >> > > Tapa> > >> > > 12> > >> > > Meena> > >> > > Mar 14 – Apr 14> > >> > > Tapasya> > >> > >> > >> > > Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month> > names> > > in Vedic period is given below –> > >> > > 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka.> > It> > > reads as follows -> > >> > > Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH> > >> > > te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH> > >> > > (Yajur> > > Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5)> > >> > > [Take the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces> > Sign),> > > ...................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan> > > prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)].> That> > > proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga> > Jyotisha> > > period.> > >> > > 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to> > reach> > > the 11th sloka. It reads –> > >> > > Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset> > >> > > Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun> > >> > > (Rk> > > Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11)> > >> > > Please notice the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern LAGNA;> > from> > > the eastern RISING SIGN) "Lagna" means, "Raseenam Udayo Lagna" (The> > SIGN> > > rising in the east is termed LAGNA).> > >> > > 3) Take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote> > > that reads - "Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The> Vasanta> > > Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per> the> > > period of time and geographical location)]> > >> > > 4) Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the> > wordings> > > such as - "Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya> pradhayaschakramekam"> > > etc etc.> > >> > > 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows> > > –> > >> > > Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH> > >> > > masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH> > >> > > [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi;> > > Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) -> > > then that month is known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the> > unclean> > > month)]> > >> > > This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in> > existence> > > and use during Vedic period.> > >> > > 6) If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better> > for> > > you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to> > Signs> > > in all of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous> > other> > > Puranas.> > >> > >> > >> > > Other type of Months> > >> > > Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and> > > Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were> > ascribed> > > to them.> > >> > >> > >> > > Conclusion> > >> > > In this article I tried to discuss the various month name sequences> > used> > > in Vedic period, and tried to decipher the nature of those months in> > > detail. The general understanding arrived at is that –> > >> > > * only Lunar (luni-solar) and Solar Sidereal months were in> > used> > > during Vedic period in India and> > > * no tropical month sequences were in use in Vedic period in> > > India> > >> > > In other words all tropical month sequences are imported and not all> > > Indian or Vedic in nature. The Kaulians who argue in favor of> > existence> > > of Tropical month names in Vedas are totally baseless and lack even> > the> > > basic understanding of month name sequences used in Vedas.> > >> > > - 0 -> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 dear sunil bhattacharjya ji There is a correction ,This article on vedic Months is individual effort of shri sreenadh ji I thank u for ur appreciation and support u extented always to us .Knowledgeable ppl like u r our strnght and asset to any group .with rgrds sunil nair , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > I appreciate the articles written by yourself and Sunil Nairji and these are really very timely. This shows the depth of our group.> > Thanks and regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Sreenadh sreesog wrote:> > Sreenadh sreesog Re: Vedic Month Names> > Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:37 AM> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> Thanks. It is just due to modesty that I kept away from responding to the same. But if you force me to - then Thanks, certainly I noticed it.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> >> > Dear Sreenadh ji,> >> > Not only Dear Sunilji, but I appreciate your articles and writeups too.> > My mail was meant for both of you.> >> > Love and regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Dear Souvik ji, It is already done. The article is available at: AIA Website: Vedic Month Names Love and regards, Sreenadh , "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji,> > One request, if not already done by you, please put is brilliant article on the group website.> > Regards> > Souvik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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