Fw: [VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedas

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Dear Sreenadhji,

 

Any comment?

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved[VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedasvedic_research_institute Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:54 AM

 

 

WAVES-Vedic, Avinash Sathaye <sohum wrote:After watching a long exchange between Sunil Bhattacharya (SB) and Avatar Krishna Kaul(AKK),I finally found something I can look into: an explicit reference to the rAshis in RV.The reference from SB was:) Vrshabha Rashi in Rig Veda (8.93.1). There are more Rashis in Rig Veda.2) Meena Rashi in Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha (Verse No. 5)3) Brahma Rashi in the Mahabharata had Abhijit Nakshatra. At that time the 28 Nakshatras were considered including Abhijt. Later on the Abhijit is dropped and 27 Nakshatras were counted and the Rashi containing Abhijit became the Makar Rashi.Any knowledgeable astrologer should know the earlier location of the Abhijit in the

ecliptic.I checked the first reference and found the following:The padapATha form in 8.93.1 gives (using ITRANS notation):ut | gha | it | abhi | shruta.amabham | vRRiShabham | narya.aapasam | astAram | eShi | sUryam || 1 ||sAyaNa seems to say that sUkta refers to Indra and says:" indro.api sUryAtmanA paThitaH " - Indra is counted among the 12 Suns.His translation gives no hint that a rAshi is involved here, he consider "bull" as a symbol of wealth.Here is his paraphrase transformed in English with Sanskrit in parenthesis:the best known form of wealth (shrutamagham sarvathA deyatvena vikhyAtadhanam ata ), thus the Bull, (vRRiShabham ) - showering on the people requesting (yAchamAnAnAm dhanasya varShitAram ), bes tower of beneficial things (narya.aapasam)etc.I don't see any reasonable way to interpret the vRRiShabha as a rAshi.If there is a different explanation, please enlighten

us.I tried to check the second reference. I could not find it.I possess a handwritten transcript of the text from the Chaukhamba book called yajuHshAstrIya jyotiSha and it contains 44 verses.The one numbered 5 ismAghashuklaprapanna sya pauShakRRiShNa samApinaH |yugasya pa~nchavarShasya kAlaj~nAnaM prachakShate ||I did not find the "Meena" rAshi yet.Somebody please give the verse and a convincing translation, unless it is clear.I do not possess the whole book, but if there is a convincing reference in it, I can get the relevant copy.I did not bother with mahabharata, since there is no concrete reference. The reference does not even claim that Makara rAshi is mentioned there, but only stipulates that any "knowledgeable astrologer" should know the earliest location of Abhijit.Since the references are to decide the date of introduction of rAshis, "the knowledge" of an astrologer

should be waived as partisan evidence.Now, I partly understand why AKK kept on insisting a reference with a translation( :-))P.S. I have one request for people who engage in long drawn out debates. Often, the messages and counter messages are all kept in the body and the author's response is hard to find. It is also hard to sort out the new arguments from the old.Please, quote only the relevant portions, indicating if you have omitted parts . The interested reader can always go back and review the messages from the past(:-))-- With Best Regards,Avinash SathayeWeb: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum--- End forwarded message ---

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Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, Give him the following references . If more references are required, that also is available. ============== AIA Website Article: Vendic Month Names Some preliminary evidence to prove the existence of Meshadi month names in Vedic period is given below – 1) Take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It reads as follows - Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) [Take

the sign count of Jupiter counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign),

....................etc] I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan

prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. That

proves the existence of signs like Meena, Mesha etc in Vedanga Jyotisha

period. 2) Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach the 11th sloka. It reads – Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun (Rk Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11) Please

notice the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern LAGNA; from the

eastern RISING SIGN) "Lagna" means, "Raseenam Udayo Lagna" (The SIGN

rising in the east is termed LAGNA). 3) Take

the copy of Boudhayana Sutra. In it you will find a quote that reads -

"Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The Vasanta Ritu could be

either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the period of time

and geographical location)] 4) Then

take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings such as -

"Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam" etc etc. 5) Take Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows – Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH [if two lunar months falls with a single sidereal solar month (Rasi; Sign) - i.e. if Sun

TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) - then that month is

known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the unclean month)] This quote proves that sidereal solar months where clearly in existence and use during Vedic period. 6) If

even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for you. So

take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs in all

of them, Such as in Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous other

Puranas.==============Love and regards,Sreenadh , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > Any comment?> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > --- On Tue, 5/26/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved wrote:> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved [VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedas> vedic_research_institute > Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:54 AM> > > > > > > > > WAVES-Vedic, Avinash Sathaye sohum@ wrote:> > After watching a long exchange between Sunil Bhattacharya (SB) and > Avatar Krishna Kaul(AKK),> I finally found something I can look into: an explicit reference to the > rAshis in RV.> > The reference from SB was:> ) Vrshabha Rashi in Rig Veda (8.93.1). There are more Rashis in Rig Veda.> > 2) Meena Rashi in Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha (Verse No. 5)> > 3) Brahma Rashi in the Mahabharata had Abhijit Nakshatra. At that time > the 28 Nakshatras were considered including Abhijt. Later on the > Abhijit is dropped and 27 Nakshatras were counted and the Rashi > containing Abhijit became the Makar Rashi.Any knowledgeable astrologer > should know the earlier location of the Abhijit in the ecliptic.> > I checked the first reference and found the following:> The padapATha form in 8.93.1 gives (using ITRANS notation):> ut | gha | it | abhi | shruta.amabham | vRRiShabham | narya.aapasam | > astAram | eShi | sUryam || 1 ||> sAyaNa seems to say that sUkta refers to Indra and says:" indro.api > sUryAtmanA paThitaH " - Indra is counted among the 12 Suns.> > His translation gives no hint that a rAshi is involved here, he consider > "bull" as a symbol of wealth.> Here is his paraphrase transformed in English with Sanskrit in parenthesis:> > the best known form of wealth (shrutamagham sarvathA deyatvena > vikhyAtadhanam ata ), thus the Bull, (vRRiShabham ) - showering on the > people requesting (yAchamAnAnAm dhanasya varShitAram ), bes tower of > beneficial things (narya.aapasam)> etc.> I don't see any reasonable way to interpret the vRRiShabha as a rAshi.> If there is a different explanation, please enlighten us.> > I tried to check the second reference. I could not find it.> I possess a handwritten transcript of the text from the Chaukhamba book > called yajuHshAstrIya jyotiSha and it contains 44 verses.> The one numbered 5 is> mAghashuklaprapanna sya pauShakRRiShNa samApinaH |> yugasya pa~nchavarShasya kAlaj~nAnaM prachakShate ||> > I did not find the "Meena" rAshi yet.> Somebody please give the verse and a convincing translation, unless it > is clear.> I do not possess the whole book, but if there is a convincing reference > in it, I can get the relevant copy.> > I did not bother with mahabharata, since there is no concrete reference. > The reference does not even claim that Makara rAshi is mentioned there, > but only stipulates that any "knowledgeable astrologer" should know the > earliest location of Abhijit.> Since the references are to decide the date of introduction of rAshis, > "the knowledge" of an astrologer should be waived as partisan evidence.> > Now, I partly understand why AKK kept on insisting a reference with a > translation( :-))> > P.S. I have one request for people who engage in long drawn out debates. > Often, the messages and counter messages are all kept in the body and > the author's response is hard to find. It is also hard to sort out the > new arguments from the old.Please, quote only the relevant portions, > indicating if you have omitted parts . The interested reader can always > go back and review the messages from the past(:-))> > > -- > > With Best Regards,> Avinash Sathaye> > Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum> > --- End forwarded message --->