Fw: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

The id " Jyotishi2001 " is not fake. It is commdendable that in reply to one

of my mails he boldly disclosed that his name is M.S.Menon. He was originally

from Chennai and presently stays with his children somewhere, which he did not

disclose. I found that his language was not abusive even when he does not

like any mail. He probably did not like my asking his name and he asked me back

as to why I do not ask everybody's name.

 

To my knowledge in West Bengal all Panjikas (Panchangas) use Suryasiddhanta

except for the time of the eclipses as the Suryasiddhantic calculations do not

give the time of the eclipses correct upto minutes, probably due to

the extremely small changes in the earth's movements and the Earth-Moon

distance since the time when the Suryasiddhanta was composed. Vinayji may not

agree to that but that seems to be the opinion of Hartley, who to my

knowledge, also did the eclipse calculations using the Suryasiddhanta and

found some very small differences in  time. The Panjika-makers there get the

eclipse data from the Positional Astronomy Centre at Kolkata.

 

To my knowledge AKK makes big claims regarding his software and that his

software is based on NASA materials but I would be curious to know if that

software been tested for its authenticity and certified by any scientific

authority like NASA. I think it is high time if AKK gets it checked by some

reputed authorities, if not already done and let that information also be

available to the public.

 

It is a pity that the " Siddhanta Darpana " , the great 18th century

work, has yet to get its due publicity till now probably because it is yet to

be translated to English. I understand that presently the English

translation is in press and we can hope to see that shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua wrote:

 

 

Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua

Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Sunday, May 31, 2009, 4:08 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

< This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

>

 

Go and check all mails are comeing from same source as server of is

there.Why are you making fool of yourself.

 

< Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault. >

 

When they are trying to correct itself with data from Kolkata observatory than

those are wrong.You himself claimed that in past Suryasidhanta was not able to

calculate the eclipse.That reply was to Sunil Bhattacharjya. Go and ask to him,

he will point that out.

 

< Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " . It has no

rationale, no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct

only for making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical

astronomy. >

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha...good writting...it has already been exposed by all.

 

< Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of

a vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of

computer softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya

Sidhanta.  >

 

Who told you this i think your limited world told you it.Everybody is now making

horoscope by software but your claim is awesome.

 

< I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest

in getting any program from spurious sources. >

 

Yes that is why you dowload software from all around and weeps all around from

all to download it.

 

< Onlu fools can make such programs, >

 

Everybody is aware of this on all groups

 

< because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! >

Oh interesting !Than why are you running all just by showing NASA's mail to

everybody that you have got certificate from there.

 

< Yoy are free to make such insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I

am unable to abuse you due to my principles. >

but just above this line you have written this " Onlu fools can make such

programs, "

so i should say you are an big idiot on this earth so it is also not abuse.Ha Ha

Ha Ha

 

< Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable. >

 

When you have no answers of anything than those automatically becomes self

defeating.See difference in years, you have written that figure in years is

1296000 yeras. Now tell me some paragraphs back you have written this " Surya

Sidhanta whose terms are mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta

Shiromani, but the text became extinct in ancient period, " but surya sidhat is

preserned with you even it could have been older that 1296000 years.Are you

serious ?? or making fool of your self.

 

< It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race. >

 

When you have not read anything except Suryasidhanta than all things will look

like invetion. Ha Ha Ha Ha...

 

< You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ? >

 

Your angerness is self defeating as it is being shown by your those lines.

 

< You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply >

 

Than why you dont join his forum why are you scared.If you are so confident than

join his forum.

 

< Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) >

 

You even doesnt not know name of Vedic Months, later you stolen from his mail

and now put in your mail itself and which backfired.

 

< I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and schools. Many

govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an expert, >

 

That is why ppl, there is problem.You have not read many things and you are

expert??

 

< I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum opened by

himself. >

 

You already have said that you are expert but you himself have not proved value

in front of him than imagine about his values.

 

By the way why you think that you are so great, have never come out from Patna

 

< Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations. >

Please waste some time as all are reading your mails and want to check your

mettle which you want to prove.So Join Hidu Calendar Forum.

 

 

--- On Sun, 31/5/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

vedic astrology

Sunday, 31 May, 2009, 1:15 PM

 

This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

 

<<< " BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga

based entirely on the Surya Sidhata " >>>

 

Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault.

 

<<< " Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the

Surya Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also

is based on the Surya Sidhanta! " >>>

 

I do not say, the first verse of Makaranda Saarani says that it is based on

Suryasiddhanta. All other extant versions of Suryasiddhanta are later works.

Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya is NOT based on the Surya Sidhanta, only its

Sun and Moon were taken from Suryasiddhanta. Try to study something before

posting wrong statements on public fora.

 

<<< " planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava and the Surya

Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts and

not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc " >>>

 

Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " . It has no rationale,

no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct only for

making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical astronomy. For

physical astronomy, there was a Drikpakshiya Surya Sidhanta whose terms are

mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta Shiromani, but the text became

extinct in ancient period, because it was not preserved due to its

inapplicability in astrology.

 

<<< " But it appears you are an exception since you are the only one who claims

to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis

left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with

other jyotishis first " >>>

 

Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of a

vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of computer

softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya Sidhanta.

For instance, only Hrikesha Panchanga of Varanasi sell 700,000 copies, whose

Tithi, Yoga, Rasi, Karana, Nakshatra, Sun and Moon are Suryasidhantic

(Makaranda) but other planets are from Grahalaaghava. Before declaring me to be

an exception, read the fourth item in this webpage ; Also read this item ; and

this too .

 

<<< " Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for

calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon

from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available

anywhere else in the world! After having downloaded those programs, you just

left that forum without any discussoin on any point! " >>>

 

I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest in

getting any program from spurious sources. Onlu fools can make such programs,

because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! Yoy are free to make such

insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I am unable to abuse you due to

my principles.

 

<<< " Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa king

Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years! " >>>

 

Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable.

 

<<< " Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) " >>>

 

It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race.

 

<<< " Varahamihria has called yavanas as mlechhas ....... (Maya) made a fool of

the Hindus " >>>

 

You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ?

 

<<< " You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " ,

that all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita

etc. etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! " >>>

 

I have already answered this point in detail : Manusmriti eulogises Jyotisha but

prohibits Nakshatrasoochakas. Nakshatrasoochakas were those persons, like you,

who " observed " the celestial bodies (physical planets) instead of relying upon

the Jyotisha-shaastra whose fundamental text is Suryasiddhanta.

 

<<< " Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum......you have been banned

from Hinducalendar forum " >>>

 

You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply.

 

<<< " Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it

yourself actually! ........ you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha

either...... ......jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave alone

the Vedas " >>>

 

Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and

schools. Many govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an

expert, I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum

opened by himself.

 

Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations.

 

-VJ

============ ========= ======= ====

 

____________ _________ _________ __

jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ >

vedic astrology

Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:36:58 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

 

Dear Vinayji,

BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga based

entirely on the Surya Sidhata, since it is a divine work according to them.

However, when it comes to calculating heliacal rising and setting of planets,

they get the data from PAC, Kolkatta!

Similarly, they cannot caluclate eclipses on their own. They get that

information also from PAC, who in turn get it from IMD, who in turn get it from

NASA/JPL!

Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the Surya

Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also is

based on the Surya Sidhanta!

In any case, it means that planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava

and the Surya Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth

charts and not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc.

The second question is that if the Surya Sidhanta longitudes are correct for

astrological purposes, this forum i.e. Vedic-astrology () and other

jyotisha forums must immediately switch over to those panchangas instead of

Lahiri panchangas! But it appears you are an exception since you are the only

one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas

other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul!

 

It is also news to me that Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum,

since I did not see any post from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum

only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the

planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free,

because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world!

It could also have been that you joined that forum to download some program for

calculating the mean places of all the important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030

AD for free since that type of program also is not available anywhere else!

After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any

discussoin on any point!

 

You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas already! Why don't you

give that information on this forum as well, since the name of this forum itself

is Vedic-astrology and it will augment its strength in arguing against the

" tirades " of Mr. Kaul, whom it has banned, instead of answering his questions!

Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is already a debate going on in

Abhinavagupta and other forums. It appears you just see only sone selected mails

from some forums!

Regarding the Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not

read it yourself actually! The Author of that work is Maya which is not an

Indian name! Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa

king Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years!

 

It appears you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either, since

Varahamoihria has called yavanas as mlechhas in his Brihat Samhita! And the fact

of the matter is that Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) jyotishi who took recourse

to lies and nothing but lies that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him by

Surya Bhagwan! He thus made a fool of the Hindus of India, thus proving himself

to be a stooge of the Greeks to mislead the Hindus by making them astro-buffs!

 

You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " , that

all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita etc.

etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! The famos Hindu

stalwart Vishnugupta Kautilya aka Chanakya also has advised that a king should

never run after nakshatras/nakshatr a-soochis since that way he will lose his

own 'lakshya'

The tragic fact is that jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave

alone the Vedas, but only books on phalita jyotisha, and all the jyotishis these

days vie with one another to prove such non-sense as based on the Vedas, when

actually " Vedic astrology " is really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Do you know that asstronomically zodiac is an aimaginary belt? That means that

the Rashichakras galore on which jyotishis are basing their predictions is

nothing but a fantassy of jyotishis! Being imaginary, any jyotishi can divide it

into any number of equal divisions, whether twenty-seven or twelve or even 360!

And all those divisions are thus imaginary! And the lordships of thos imaginary

divisions ascribed to Mars, Shani etc. also is as nothing but height of

imagination!

 

IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE REAL DEFINITIOPN OF ZODIAC, DO CONSULT ANY

DICTIONARY!

But then, we must not forget that jyotishis make correct predictions only from

incorrect data, especially if that data is imaginary, the predictioins will

naturally be " most accurate " .

With regards,

jyotishi2001

PS

What is also surprising is that on the one hand you say that you have been

banned from Hinducalendar forum but now you say that you have no time to join

that forum! What is the fact actually, Mr.. Vinay Jha?

jyotishi2001

vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ....> wrote:

>

> <<< " I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the

> Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even phalita-jyotisha shastras,

> as Mr. Kaul! " >>>

>

>

> I have already given references to Raashi in Vedas, yet Mr AKK & c

> neglect my messages and keep on harping that Raashi was unknown in

> Vedic period. I countered his wrong computations of ayanamsha, and instead

> of answering me he left the debate and is boycotting me since then, and

therafter Mr Prashant Pandey

> descended from somewhere to abuse me.

>

> Hindu Calendar does not need reforms from those who do not know how to compute

planetary positions. I do not need certificates from you.. I have first hand

experience of

> the " greatness " of Mr Kaul.

>

> Mr Kaul & c are abusing Siddhantic astronomy as " foreign " . It is sour grape

syndrome of ignorants. If the team of Mr Kaul gives an answer to a very simple

question from Siddhantic astronomy, which a 20-21 year year old student of

Jyotishaachaarya is expected to know, I vow I will become a slave of Mr Kaul in

all matters :

>

> Makaranda Tables are oldest tables (1478 AD) based on Suryasiddhanta, older

than the extant manuscripts of Ranganaatha and others. Please give give the

Suryasiddhantic equation of Makaranda Table of equation of centre (Manda Phala)

for any of the five planets from Mercury to Saturn. The first verse of Makaranda

Tablessays it is Suryasiddhantic.

>

> Or, give me the date of Vedaanga Jyotisha which Mr AKK claims to be of 1300

BCE. If Mr AKK proves his date right, even with a margin of eroor of many

centuries, I will become his disciple and slave.

>

> OK ???

>

> I cannot join all forums. There are only 24 hours in a day, and I have

> set foot outside my working place for two months due to overload of

> work.

>

> -VJ

> ============ ========= === ============ ====

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ ...>

> vedic astrology

> Saturday, May 30, 2009 2:44:14 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

> Why don't you join HinduCalendar forum and express your differences there

since, as far as I know, posts on that forum are not moderated and nobody has

been banned from that forum, unlike this Vedic-astrology forum, that has banned

Mr. Kaul.

> I know you will call me a stooge of Mr. Kaul, or even Kaul with a fake id, but

that does not matter, since I want you to find out for yourself certain facts

about the real Vedic culture, as I have yet to see anyone, including you, with

such a command over the Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even

phalita-jyotisha shastras, as Mr. Kaul! After all, he was not awarded

NOSTRADAMUS AWARD for correct predictions for nothing!

> Best regards,

> Jyotishi2001

>

> vedic astrology, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ .....>

wrote:

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey has been entrusted by the team of Mr AK Kaul to abuse

> > ancient Siddhaantas as works of Rakshasas (demons) and includes me among

> > demons : " Those Devils(Terrorists, Aatankwadi log) are still around and

> > roaming around,, even on internet- forums now-a-days " .

> >

> > Jyotisha has three skandhas from ancient times : Siddhaanta, Horaa, and

> > Samhitaa, and the team of Mr AKK is hell bent on declaring entire

> > Jyotisha as foreign, basing their fallacious arguments not upon original

> > Indian works but upon biased opinions of Hindu-haters like Wiztel. Mr

> > AKK and Mr Prashant Pandey believe in one part of anti-India propaganda

> > by abusing Jyotisha, esp Siddhanta, while keeps quiet about about

> > another part of this anti-India propaganda which regards all Rishis to

> > be descendants of beef eaters from Eastern Europe (Aryan Invasion

> > Theory).

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey can only abuse me because he and his guru AKK are

> > deficient in arguments. AKK & c do not know any skandha of Jyotisha,

> > Siddhaanta, Horaa or Samhitaa, and therefore they must abuse the grapes

> > as sour.

> >

> > This is an astrological forum which Mr Prashant Pandey is misusing for

> > abusing Indian astrology. Calling me a demon will not give these fellows

> > knowleable about Siddhanta.. Please ask them to solve the problem of

> > Vedanga Jyotisha dating which they are now putting in the category of

> > works influenced by foreigners : show here how it can be put around 1300

> > or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote. Borrowing Western garbage and abusing

> > Indian texts will not make them Hindus. Hence, please show here how

> > Vedanga Jyotisha can be put around 1300 or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote .

> > Instead of abusing, use some brains (if you have any) to solve this

> > problem. Witzel puts Vedanga Jyotisha around 300 BCE, neglecting the

> > astronomical conditions described. Colebrooke & c put it around 1400 BCE,

> > which AKK accepts. But both are wrong. Vedanga Jyotisha is a much

> > earlier work, and any honest discussion will faksify the claim of those

> > who regard any Veda or Vedanga as foreign.

> >

> > -Vinay Jha

> > ============ ======== =====

> > vedic astrology, Astrolearner Brazil

> > <astrolearner_ brazil@> wrote:

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 28/5/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@

> > > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: David Pingree's and Eric Forbes' papers

> > on Mesopotamian influence on Indian astronomy

> > > hinducalendar

> > > Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 7:45 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Abhinavagupta, " Sunthar Visuvalingam "

> > suntharv@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > You can find the full text of David Pingree's paper " The Mesopotamian

> > Origin

> > > of Early Indian Mathematical Astronomy " at

> > >

> > > http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu//full/ 1973JHA.. ...4....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l

> > > <http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu/full/ 1973JHA.. ....4....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l>

> > >

> > > and also another relevant paper (in PDF) by Eric G. Forbes,

> > " Mesopotamian

> > > and Greek influences on Ancient Indian Astronomy and on the work of

> > > ÂryabhaTa at

> > >

> > > http://www.new. dli.ernet. in/rawdataupload /upload/insa/

> > INSA_1/20005af8_ 150.pd

> > > f

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > > [Follow-up on my comment (below) on Francesco's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5047

> > >

> > > Rest of this thread at Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5051]

> > >

> > >

†" †" †" †" †" †" âââ€\

šÂ¬ " †" †" †" †" †" †"

> > >

> > > Francesco,

> > >

> > > I've temporarily changed the setting to allow members to upload files,

> > and

> > > will change it back to moderator only after you post the link to the

> > > uploaded file(s).

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > >

> > > Francesco Brighenti

> > > Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:07 AM

> > > Abhinavagupta

> > > [Abhinavagupta] Re: Secrets of the Earth

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Indeed, on pp. 72-74 of his paper uploaded at

> > >

> > > http://www.ejvs. laurasianacademy .com/ejvs0703/ ejvs0703article. pdf

> > ,

> > >

> > > Witzel therein supplies a terse yet dense discussion of the wrong

> > (according

> > > to his views) dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE. To this effect, he also

> > cites a

> > > paper by the well-known world espert of jyotihshastra (Sanskrit astral

> > and

> > > mathematical literature), David Pingree, which I have loaded on my PC

> > (D.

> > > Pingree, " The Mesopotamian Origin of Early Indian Mathematical

> > Astronomy, "

> > > _Journal for the History of Astronomy_ 4 [1973], pp. 1-12). I'd like

> > to

> > > upload a copy of this paper on the Files section of the Abhinavagupta

> > List,

> > > but, due to some restriction set up by the Moderator, this is not

> > allowed to

> > > me (and I cannot even attach it to a message to the List because I

> > don't use

> > > an e-mail program, but write my messages directly on the Web instead).

> > If

> > > Sunthar wants, I can e-mail a copy of this paper directly to him as a

> > PDF

> > > attachment, and he can then add it to the List's Files section. In the

> > > meanwhile, you can read Witzel's faithful summary of Pingree's

> > arguments

> > > against the dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE on p. 73 of the paper whose

> > link I

> > > have provided above.

> > >

> > > I'd like to see your detailed counter-arguments against Pingree &

> > Witzel's

> > > conclusions, Koenraad. Same w.r.t. Avtar Krishen Kaul's post archived

> > at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5036 ,

> > >

> > > for, as far as I can see, his " super-high " chronology for the Vedas

> > and the

> > > Mahabharata almost entirely rests on the assumption that the VJ was

> > composed

> > > circa 1400 BCE.

> > >

> > > Kindest regards,

> > >

> > > Francesco

> > >

> > > [Response to Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5044]

> > >

> > > ------------ --------

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with

> > India Travel http://in..travel. /

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sunil ji,

 

Mr jyotishi2001 says : " you are an exception since you are the only one who

claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other

jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul! "

 

It is a false and prejudiced statement. In a major part of India traditional

panchangas are still being made from manuals originally based on Suryasiddhanta.

Indian_kachua (Mr Prashant Pandey also makes a similarly false claim by saying

that all horoscopes are now made from softwares and not from panchangas ! He

imagines every Indian has a computer!! Mr jyotishi2001 is wrong in saying that I

am an exception.. It is inconceivable that he has not seen any traditional

panchanga !

 

Mr AK Kaul gave a wrong computation of Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in AIA, which I

refuted by explaining the method of computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in

detail : but Mr AKK left the discussion and later deployed Mr Prashant Pandey to

abuse me away or from forums or ban me. Now, Mr jyotishi2001 thinks AKK is the

" arbiter " of all matters related to astronomy, astrology and ancient texts !

 

Mr jyotishi2001 makes other false charges on me, eg " It is also news to me that

Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum, since I did not see any post

from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs

for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and

moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe

available anywhere else in the world! It could also have been that you joined

that forum to download some program for calculating the mean places of all the

important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD for free since that type of program

also is not available anywhere else! After having downloaded those programs, you

just left that forum without any discussoin on any point! "

 

I never became a member of Hindu Calendar or even tried to read any post by

anyone there , and a non-member cannot download any program. Mr jyotishi2001 is

simply taking a resort to false accusations for character assassination,. which

is the weapon of inferior people.

 

Mr Jyotishi2001 says " You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas

already! Why don't you give that information on this forum as well "

 

He does not read my postings. Let him ask Mr Prashant Pandey to whom I sent the

proofs, and got abuses in return.

 

Planetary equations of modern physicas cannot give reliable positions for remote

ages, because the higher order terms in differential equations increase in

proportion and it is difficult ti ascertain whether these higher order terms are

right or wrong, because science has data only of a few centuries. Hence, Mr

AKK's claims of having software for +/- 12000 year's is merely a hoax.

 

Mr Jyotishi2001 hates Vedic astrology but calls himself a " Jyotishi " , and

divines things about me : " Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is

already a debate going on in Abhinavagupta and other forums! "

 

I am not a member of Abhinavagupta forum. Why the team of Mr AKK cannot prove

the date of Vedanga Jyotisha HERE ?

 

He says " It appears you just see only sone selected mails from some forums "

 

Can Mr Jyotishi2001 cite which of my posts contain proofs of mt thefts from

other fora ? He is simply calling me a thief, yet Sunil ji concludes that Mr

Jyotishi2001 is not abusive. Mr Jyotishi says : " Regarding the Surya Sidhanta

being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it yourself

actually!......you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either " . Mr

Jyotishi2001 makwes false statement in my name : " you say that you have been

banned from Hinducalendar forum " . I never said so, because I never tried to

even apply for a membership in Hindu Calendar. I got the taste of Mr AKK's

scholarship in AIA, where he left the debate midway and later his shishyas

started abusing me.

 

-VJ

============================== ============

 

 

________________________________

" sunil_bhattacharjya " <sunil_bhattacharjya

 

Cc:

Monday, June 1, 2009 6:51:50 AM

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear All,

 

The id " Jyotishi2001 " is not fake. It is commdendable that in reply to one of my

mails he boldly disclosed that his name is M.S.Menon. He was originally from

Chennai and presently stays with his children somewhere, which he did not

disclose. I found that his language was not abusive even when he does not like

any mail. He probably did not like my asking his name and he asked me back as to

why I do not ask everybody's name.

 

To my knowledge in West Bengal all Panjikas (Panchangas) use Suryasiddhanta

except for the time of the eclipses as the Suryasiddhantic calculations do not

give the time of the eclipses correct upto minutes, probably due to the

extremely small changes in the earth's movements and the Earth-Moon distance

since the time when the Suryasiddhanta was composed. Vinayji may not agree to

that but that seems to be the opinion of Hartley, who to my knowledge, also did

the eclipse calculations using the Suryasiddhanta and found some very small

differences in time. The Panjika-makers there get the eclipse data from the

Positional Astronomy Centre at Kolkata.

 

To my knowledge AKK makes big claims regarding his software and that his

software is based on NASA materials but I would be curious to know if that

software been tested for its authenticity and certified by any scientific

authority like NASA. I think it is high time if AKK gets it checked by some

reputed authorities, if not already done and let that information also be

available to the public.

 

It is a pity that the " Siddhanta Darpana " , the great 18th century work, has yet

to get its due publicity till now probably because it is yet to be translated to

English. I understand that presently the English translation is in press and we

can hope to see that shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ > wrote:

 

Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ >

Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Sunday, May 31, 2009, 4:08 PM

 

< This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

>

 

Go and check all mails are comeing from same source as server of is

there.Why are you making fool of yourself.

 

< Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault. >

 

When they are trying to correct itself with data from Kolkata observatory than

those are wrong.You himself claimed that in past Suryasidhanta was not able to

calculate the eclipse.That reply was to Sunil Bhattacharjya. Go and ask to him,

he will point that out.

 

< Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " . It has no

rationale, no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct

only for making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical

astronomy. >

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha...good writting....it has already been exposed by all.

 

< Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of

a vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of

computer softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya

Sidhanta. >

 

Who told you this i think your limited world told you it.Everybody is now making

horoscope by software but your claim is awesome.

 

< I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest

in getting any program from spurious sources. >

 

Yes that is why you dowload software from all around and weeps all around from

all to download it.

 

< Onlu fools can make such programs, >

 

Everybody is aware of this on all groups

 

< because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! >

Oh interesting !Than why are you running all just by showing NASA's mail to

everybody that you have got certificate from there.

 

< Yoy are free to make such insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I

am unable to abuse you due to my principles. >

but just above this line you have written this " Onlu fools can make such

programs, "

so i should say you are an big idiot on this earth so it is also not abuse.Ha Ha

Ha Ha

 

< Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable. >

 

When you have no answers of anything than those automatically becomes self

defeating.See difference in years, you have written that figure in years is

1296000 yeras. Now tell me some paragraphs back you have written this " Surya

Sidhanta whose terms are mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta

Shiromani, but the text became extinct in ancient period, " but surya sidhat is

preserned with you even it could have been older that 1296000 years.Are you

serious ?? or making fool of your self.

 

< It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race. >

 

When you have not read anything except Suryasidhanta than all things will look

like invetion. Ha Ha Ha Ha...

 

< You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ? >

 

Your angerness is self defeating as it is being shown by your those lines.

 

< You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply >

 

Than why you dont join his forum why are you scared.If you are so confident than

join his forum.

 

< Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) >

 

You even doesnt not know name of Vedic Months, later you stolen from his mail

and now put in your mail itself and which backfired.

 

< I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and schools. Many

govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an expert, >

 

That is why ppl, there is problem.You have not read many things and you are

expert??

 

< I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum opened by

himself. >

 

You already have said that you are expert but you himself have not proved value

in front of him than imagine about his values.

 

By the way why you think that you are so great, have never come out from Patna

 

< Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations. >

Please waste some time as all are reading your mails and want to check your

mettle which you want to prove.So Join Hidu Calendar Forum.

 

 

--- On Sun, 31/5/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

vedic astrology

Sunday, 31 May, 2009, 1:15 PM

 

This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

 

<<< " BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga

based entirely on the Surya Sidhata " >>>

 

Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault.

 

<<< " Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the

Surya Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also

is based on the Surya Sidhanta! " >>>

 

I do not say, the first verse of Makaranda Saarani says that it is based on

Suryasiddhanta. All other extant versions of Suryasiddhanta are later works.

Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya is NOT based on the Surya Sidhanta, only its

Sun and Moon were taken from Suryasiddhanta. Try to study something before

posting wrong statements on public fora.

 

<<< " planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava and the Surya

Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts and

not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc " >>>

 

Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " . It has no rationale,

no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct only for

making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical astronomy. For

physical astronomy, there was a Drikpakshiya Surya Sidhanta whose terms are

mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta Shiromani, but the text became

extinct in ancient period, because it was not preserved due to its

inapplicability in astrology.

 

<<< " But it appears you are an exception since you are the only one who claims

to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis

left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with

other jyotishis first " >>>

 

Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of a

vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of computer

softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya Sidhanta.

For instance, only Hrikesha Panchanga of Varanasi sell 700,000 copies, whose

Tithi, Yoga, Rasi, Karana, Nakshatra, Sun and Moon are Suryasidhantic

(Makaranda) but other planets are from Grahalaaghava. Before declaring me to be

an exception, read the fourth item in this webpage ; Also read this item ; and

this too .

 

<<< " Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for

calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon

from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available

anywhere else in the world! After having downloaded those programs, you just

left that forum without any discussoin on any point! " >>>

 

I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest in

getting any program from spurious sources. Onlu fools can make such programs,

because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! Yoy are free to make such

insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I am unable to abuse you due to

my principles.

 

<<< " Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa king

Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years! " >>>

 

Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable.

 

<<< " Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) " >>>

 

It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race.

 

<<< " Varahamihria has called yavanas as mlechhas ....... (Maya) made a fool of

the Hindus " >>>

 

You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ?

 

<<< " You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " ,

that all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita

etc. etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! " >>>

 

I have already answered this point in detail : Manusmriti eulogises Jyotisha but

prohibits Nakshatrasoochakas. Nakshatrasoochakas were those persons, like you,

who " observed " the celestial bodies (physical planets) instead of relying upon

the Jyotisha-shaastra whose fundamental text is Suryasiddhanta.

 

<<< " Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum.......you have been banned

from Hinducalendar forum " >>>

 

You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply.

 

<<< " Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it

yourself actually! ........ you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha

either...... ......jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave alone

the Vedas " >>>

 

Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and

schools. Many govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an

expert, I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum

opened by himself.

 

Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations.

 

-VJ

============ ========= ======= ====

 

____________ _________ _________ __

jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ >

vedic astrology

Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:36:58 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

 

Dear Vinayji,

BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga based

entirely on the Surya Sidhata, since it is a divine work according to them.

However, when it comes to calculating heliacal rising and setting of planets,

they get the data from PAC, Kolkatta!

Similarly, they cannot caluclate eclipses on their own. They get that

information also from PAC, who in turn get it from IMD, who in turn get it from

NASA/JPL!

Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the Surya

Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also is

based on the Surya Sidhanta!

In any case, it means that planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava

and the Surya Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth

charts and not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc.

The second question is that if the Surya Sidhanta longitudes are correct for

astrological purposes, this forum i.e. Vedic-astrology () and other

jyotisha forums must immediately switch over to those panchangas instead of

Lahiri panchangas! But it appears you are an exception since you are the only

one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas

other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul!

 

It is also news to me that Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum,

since I did not see any post from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum

only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the

planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free,

because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world!

It could also have been that you joined that forum to download some program for

calculating the mean places of all the important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030

AD for free since that type of program also is not available anywhere else!

After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any

discussoin on any point!

 

You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas already! Why don't you

give that information on this forum as well, since the name of this forum itself

is Vedic-astrology and it will augment its strength in arguing against the

" tirades " of Mr. Kaul, whom it has banned, instead of answering his questions!

Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is already a debate going on in

Abhinavagupta and other forums. It appears you just see only sone selected mails

from some forums!

Regarding the Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not

read it yourself actually! The Author of that work is Maya which is not an

Indian name! Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa

king Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years!

 

It appears you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either, since

Varahamoihria has called yavanas as mlechhas in his Brihat Samhita! And the fact

of the matter is that Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) jyotishi who took recourse

to lies and nothing but lies that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him by

Surya Bhagwan! He thus made a fool of the Hindus of India, thus proving himself

to be a stooge of the Greeks to mislead the Hindus by making them astro-buffs!

 

You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " , that

all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita etc.

etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! The famos Hindu

stalwart Vishnugupta Kautilya aka Chanakya also has advised that a king should

never run after nakshatras/nakshatr a-soochis since that way he will lose his

own 'lakshya'

The tragic fact is that jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave

alone the Vedas, but only books on phalita jyotisha, and all the jyotishis these

days vie with one another to prove such non-sense as based on the Vedas, when

actually " Vedic astrology " is really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Do you know that asstronomically zodiac is an aimaginary belt? That means that

the Rashichakras galore on which jyotishis are basing their predictions is

nothing but a fantassy of jyotishis! Being imaginary, any jyotishi can divide it

into any number of equal divisions, whether twenty-seven or twelve or even 360!

And all those divisions are thus imaginary! And the lordships of thos imaginary

divisions ascribed to Mars, Shani etc. also is as nothing but height of

imagination!

 

IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE REAL DEFINITIOPN OF ZODIAC, DO CONSULT ANY

DICTIONARY!

But then, we must not forget that jyotishis make correct predictions only from

incorrect data, especially if that data is imaginary, the predictioins will

naturally be " most accurate " .

With regards,

jyotishi2001

PS

What is also surprising is that on the one hand you say that you have been

banned from Hinducalendar forum but now you say that you have no time to join

that forum! What is the fact actually, Mr.. Vinay Jha?

jyotishi2001

vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ....> wrote:

>

> <<< " I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the

> Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even phalita-jyotisha shastras,

> as Mr. Kaul! " >>>

>

>

> I have already given references to Raashi in Vedas, yet Mr AKK & c

> neglect my messages and keep on harping that Raashi was unknown in

> Vedic period.. I countered his wrong computations of ayanamsha, and instead

> of answering me he left the debate and is boycotting me since then, and

therafter Mr Prashant Pandey

> descended from somewhere to abuse me.

>

> Hindu Calendar does not need reforms from those who do not know how to compute

planetary positions. I do not need certificates from you.. I have first hand

experience of

> the " greatness " of Mr Kaul.

>

> Mr Kaul & c are abusing Siddhantic astronomy as " foreign " . It is sour grape

syndrome of ignorants. If the team of Mr Kaul gives an answer to a very simple

question from Siddhantic astronomy, which a 20-21 year year old student of

Jyotishaachaarya is expected to know, I vow I will become a slave of Mr Kaul in

all matters :

>

> Makaranda Tables are oldest tables (1478 AD) based on Suryasiddhanta, older

than the extant manuscripts of Ranganaatha and others. Please give give the

Suryasiddhantic equation of Makaranda Table of equation of centre (Manda Phala)

for any of the five planets from Mercury to Saturn. The first verse of Makaranda

Tablessays it is Suryasiddhantic.

>

> Or, give me the date of Vedaanga Jyotisha which Mr AKK claims to be of 1300

BCE. If Mr AKK proves his date right, even with a margin of eroor of many

centuries, I will become his disciple and slave.

>

> OK ???

>

> I cannot join all forums. There are only 24 hours in a day, and I have

> set foot outside my working place for two months due to overload of

> work.

>

> -VJ

> ============ ========= === ============ ====

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ ...>

> vedic astrology

> Saturday, May 30, 2009 2:44:14 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

> Why don't you join HinduCalendar forum and express your differences there

since, as far as I know, posts on that forum are not moderated and nobody has

been banned from that forum, unlike this Vedic-astrology forum, that has banned

Mr. Kaul.

> I know you will call me a stooge of Mr. Kaul, or even Kaul with a fake id, but

that does not matter, since I want you to find out for yourself certain facts

about the real Vedic culture, as I have yet to see anyone, including you, with

such a command over the Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even

phalita-jyotisha shastras, as Mr. Kaul! After all, he was not awarded

NOSTRADAMUS AWARD for correct predictions for nothing!

> Best regards,

> Jyotishi2001

>

> vedic astrology, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ .....>

wrote:

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey has been entrusted by the team of Mr AK Kaul to abuse

> > ancient Siddhaantas as works of Rakshasas (demons) and includes me among

> > demons : " Those Devils(Terrorists, Aatankwadi log) are still around and

> > roaming around,, even on internet- forums now-a-days " .

> >

> > Jyotisha has three skandhas from ancient times : Siddhaanta, Horaa, and

> > Samhitaa, and the team of Mr AKK is hell bent on declaring entire

> > Jyotisha as foreign, basing their fallacious arguments not upon original

> > Indian works but upon biased opinions of Hindu-haters like Wiztel. Mr

> > AKK and Mr Prashant Pandey believe in one part of anti-India propaganda

> > by abusing Jyotisha, esp Siddhanta, while keeps quiet about about

> > another part of this anti-India propaganda which regards all Rishis to

> > be descendants of beef eaters from Eastern Europe (Aryan Invasion

> > Theory).

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey can only abuse me because he and his guru AKK are

> > deficient in arguments. AKK & c do not know any skandha of Jyotisha,

> > Siddhaanta, Horaa or Samhitaa, and therefore they must abuse the grapes

> > as sour.

> >

> > This is an astrological forum which Mr Prashant Pandey is misusing for

> > abusing Indian astrology. Calling me a demon will not give these fellows

> > knowleable about Siddhanta.. Please ask them to solve the problem of

> > Vedanga Jyotisha dating which they are now putting in the category of

> > works influenced by foreigners : show here how it can be put around 1300

> > or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote. Borrowing Western garbage and abusing

> > Indian texts will not make them Hindus. Hence, please show here how

> > Vedanga Jyotisha can be put around 1300 or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote .

> > Instead of abusing, use some brains (if you have any) to solve this

> > problem. Witzel puts Vedanga Jyotisha around 300 BCE, neglecting the

> > astronomical conditions described. Colebrooke & c put it around 1400 BCE,

> > which AKK accepts. But both are wrong. Vedanga Jyotisha is a much

> > earlier work, and any honest discussion will faksify the claim of those

> > who regard any Veda or Vedanga as foreign.

> >

> > -Vinay Jha

> > ============ ======== =====

> > vedic astrology, Astrolearner Brazil

> > <astrolearner_ brazil@> wrote:

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 28/5/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@

> > > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: David Pingree's and Eric Forbes' papers

> > on Mesopotamian influence on Indian astronomy

> > > hinducalendar

> > > Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 7:45 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Abhinavagupta, " Sunthar Visuvalingam "

> > suntharv@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > You can find the full text of David Pingree's paper " The Mesopotamian

> > Origin

> > > of Early Indian Mathematical Astronomy " at

> > >

> > > http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu//full/ 1973JHA.. ...4....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l

> > > <http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu/full/ 1973JHA.. ....4....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l>

> > >

> > > and also another relevant paper (in PDF) by Eric G. Forbes,

> > " Mesopotamian

> > > and Greek influences on Ancient Indian Astronomy and on the work of

> > > ÂryabhaTa at

> > >

> > > http://www.new. dli.ernet. in/rawdataupload /upload/insa/

> > INSA_1/20005af8_ 150.pd

> > > f

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > > [Follow-up on my comment (below) on Francesco's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5047

> > >

> > > Rest of this thread at Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5051]

> > >

> > >

†" †" †" †" †" †" âââ€\

šÂ¬ " †" †" †" †" †" †"

> > >

> > > Francesco,

> > >

> > > I've temporarily changed the setting to allow members to upload files,

> > and

> > > will change it back to moderator only after you post the link to the

> > > uploaded file(s).

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > >

> > > Francesco Brighenti

> > > Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:07 AM

> > > Abhinavagupta

> > > [Abhinavagupta] Re: Secrets of the Earth

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Indeed, on pp. 72-74 of his paper uploaded at

> > >

> > > http://www.ejvs. laurasianacademy .com/ejvs0703/ ejvs0703article. pdf

> > ,

> > >

> > > Witzel therein supplies a terse yet dense discussion of the wrong

> > (according

> > > to his views) dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE. To this effect, he also

> > cites a

> > > paper by the well-known world espert of jyotihshastra (Sanskrit astral

> > and

> > > mathematical literature), David Pingree, which I have loaded on my PC

> > (D.

> > > Pingree, " The Mesopotamian Origin of Early Indian Mathematical

> > Astronomy, "

> > > _Journal for the History of Astronomy_ 4 [1973], pp. 1-12). I'd like

> > to

> > > upload a copy of this paper on the Files section of the Abhinavagupta

> > List,

> > > but, due to some restriction set up by the Moderator, this is not

> > allowed to

> > > me (and I cannot even attach it to a message to the List because I

> > don't use

> > > an e-mail program, but write my messages directly on the Web instead).

> > If

> > > Sunthar wants, I can e-mail a copy of this paper directly to him as a

> > PDF

> > > attachment, and he can then add it to the List's Files section. In the

> > > meanwhile, you can read Witzel's faithful summary of Pingree's

> > arguments

> > > against the dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE on p. 73 of the paper whose

> > link I

> > > have provided above.

> > >

> > > I'd like to see your detailed counter-arguments against Pingree &

> > Witzel's

> > > conclusions, Koenraad. Same w.r.t. Avtar Krishen Kaul's post archived

> > at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5036 ,

> > >

> > > for, as far as I can see, his " super-high " chronology for the Vedas

> > and the

> > > Mahabharata almost entirely rests on the assumption that the VJ was

> > composed

> > > circa 1400 BCE.

> > >

> > > Kindest regards,

> > >

> > > Francesco

> > >

> > > [Response to Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5044]

> > >

> > > ------------ --------

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with

> > India Travel http://in..travel. /

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Vinayji,

 

1)

I said I understand, which means I came to know from the Panchanga-makers of West Bengal, that they use Suryasiddhanta for making the Panchanga but for the eclipses they still get the data from PAC, Kolkata. I am not saying that they do any Saurapakshiya calculations either. I am not a Panchanga-maker myself so I do not have the first hand experience in Panchanga-making and have to go by what the Panchanga-makers say.

 

2)

How are you so sure that Indian Kachua is Mr. Prashant Pandey?

 

3)

AKK's sole agenda is to remove the predictive astrology alongwith predictions. Calendar making for him is just a ruse to attract attention. Astrology and Astronomy constitute Jyotishsashtra. So he wants to break the astrology-arm of the Jyotishsashtra, which is a Vedanga (Veda + Anga or part). Thus he is attacking Hinduism. Manu in the highest Dharmasashtra wants the kings (rulers) to consult astrology but AKK says that astrology should not be consulted. Now that he was shown that the rashis are in the Veda, be prepared to hear from him that the Vedas have come from Greece.

 

As regards AKK's software I have already expressed my apprehensions.

 

4)

Vinayji, Kindly remember that I do not condone anybody abusing you even though I may not agree with everything you say on Jyotishsashtra. You are right when you say that I do not know much of the phalita jyotisha. I do not charge people for astrological guidance as I am not a professional astrologer but I find that many people find my predictions coming correct even though I am yet to know all the nuances of astrology. As regards the Suryasiddhanta I did read the translation by Burgess but did not do any of the detailed calculations. I am expecting the English translation of the Siddhanta Darpan to come out by the end of this year, as the scholar translating that had himself told me. Once I become free from my present preoccupations, after a couple of years, then God willing I shall do some calculations etc. in Hindu astronomy. Have you noticed that in Suryasiddhanta (1.47) Burgess gives a

figure of 1,953,720,000 years elapsed in the kalpa till the end of the Satyayuga of the present Mahayuga. If you calculate the span of the 6 earlier Manvantaras with 71 Mahayugas in each of them plus the 27 Mahayugas of the 7th Manu ie for (6 X 71) + 27 = 453 Mahayugas then the number of years comes out to be (253 X 12,000 X 360) = 1,956,960,000 years + the span of the Satya yuga of the present Mahayuga. You can see that this figure is higher than the figure given in the translation by Burgess. It appears to me that there are some grey areas in that which need careful study.

 

If Jyotishi2001 made false accusations against you and called you a thief undeservedly then it is highly condemnable and I am sure all the members of the forum will condemn that. Since I do not know much about the events that Jyotishi2001 is referring to I will rather not make any comment on the specific events. You have already asked Jyotishi2001 to give the proofs of the thefts from the fora. However one has also to keep in mind that if one learns something from a forum legitimately and do not use it when required then what is the use of that learning.

 

- SKB

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:34 PM

 

 

Sunil ji,Mr jyotishi2001 says : "you are an exception since you are the only one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of Mr. Kaul!"It is a false and prejudiced statement. In a major part of India traditional panchangas are still being made from manuals originally based on Suryasiddhanta. Indian_kachua (Mr Prashant Pandey also makes a similarly false claim by saying that all horoscopes are now made from softwares and not from panchangas ! He imagines every Indian has a computer!! Mr jyotishi2001 is wrong in saying that I am an exception.. It is inconceivable that he has not seen any traditional panchanga ! Mr AK Kaul gave a wrong computation of Suryasiddhantic

ayanamsha in AIA, which I refuted by explaining the method of computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in detail : but Mr AKK left the discussion and later deployed Mr Prashant Pandey to abuse me away or from forums or ban me. Now, Mr jyotishi2001 thinks AKK is the "arbiter" of all matters related to astronomy, astrology and ancient texts !Mr jyotishi2001 makes other false charges on me, eg "It is also news to me that Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum, since I did not see any post from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world! It could also have been that you joined that forum to download some program for calculating the mean places of all the important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD for free since that type of

program also is not available anywhere else! After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any discussoin on any point!"I never became a member of Hindu Calendar or even tried to read any post by anyone there , and a non-member cannot download any program. Mr jyotishi2001 is simply taking a resort to false accusations for character assassination, . which is the weapon of inferior people.Mr Jyotishi2001 says "You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas already! Why don't you give that information on this forum as well"He does not read my postings. Let him ask Mr Prashant Pandey to whom I sent the proofs, and got abuses in return.Planetary equations of modern physicas cannot give reliable positions for remote ages, because the higher order terms in differential equations increase in proportion and it is difficult ti ascertain whether these higher order terms are right or wrong,

because science has data only of a few centuries. Hence, Mr AKK's claims of having software for +/- 12000 year's is merely a hoax.Mr Jyotishi2001 hates Vedic astrology but calls himself a "Jyotishi", and divines things about me : "Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is already a debate going on in Abhinavagupta and other forums!"I am not a member of Abhinavagupta forum. Why the team of Mr AKK cannot prove the date of Vedanga Jyotisha HERE ?He says "It appears you just see only sone selected mails from some forums"Can Mr Jyotishi2001 cite which of my posts contain proofs of mt thefts from other fora ? He is simply calling me a thief, yet Sunil ji concludes that Mr Jyotishi2001 is not abusive. Mr Jyotishi says : "Regarding the Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it yourself actually!... ...you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either". Mr Jyotishi2001 makwes false statement

in my name :"you say that you have been banned from Hinducalendar forum". I never said so, because I never tried to even apply for a membership in Hindu Calendar. I got the taste of Mr AKK's scholarship in AIA, where he left the debate midway and later his shishyas started abusing me.-VJ============ ========= ========= ============____________ _________ _________ __"sunil_bhattacharjya @" <sunil_bhattacharjya @>Cc: ancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, June 1, 2009 6:51:50 AMRe: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's HeritageDear All,The id "Jyotishi2001" is not fake. It is commdendable that in reply to one of my mails he boldly disclosed that his name is M.S.Menon. He was originally from Chennai and presently stays with his children somewhere, which he did not disclose. I found that his language was not abusive even when he does not like any mail. He probably did not like my asking his name and he asked me back as to why I do not ask everybody's name. To my knowledge in West Bengal all Panjikas (Panchangas) use Suryasiddhanta except for the time of the eclipses as the Suryasiddhantic calculations do not give the time of the eclipses correct upto minutes, probably due to the extremely small changes in the

earth's movements and the Earth-Moon distance since the time when the Suryasiddhanta was composed. Vinayji may not agree to that but that seems to be the opinion of Hartley, who to my knowledge, also did the eclipse calculations using the Suryasiddhanta and found some very small differences in time. The Panjika-makers there get the eclipse data from the Positional Astronomy Centre at Kolkata.To my knowledge AKK makes big claims regarding his software and that his software is based on NASA materials but I would be curious to know if that software been tested for its authenticity and certified by any scientific authority like NASA. I think it is high time if AKK gets it checked by some reputed authorities, if not already done and let that information also be available to the public.It is a pity that the "Siddhanta Darpana", the great 18th century work, has yet to get its due publicity till now probably because it is yet to be translated to

English. I understand that presently the English translation is in press and we can hope to see that shortly.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ > wrote:Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ > Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's HeritageSunday, May 31, 2009, 4:08 PM< This message from the fake ID "jyotishi2001" was traced to the same source Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.>Go and check all mails are comeing from same source as server of is there.Why are you making fool of

yourself.< Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a correct panchanga, it is not my fault. >When they are trying to correct itself with data from Kolkata observatory than those are wrong.You himself claimed that in past Suryasidhanta was not able to calculate the eclipse.That reply was to Sunil Bhattacharjya. Go and ask to him, he will point that out.< Grahalghava is a "laaghava" work, which means a "shortcut". It has no rationale, no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical astronomy. >Ha Ha Ha Ha...good writting.... it has already been exposed by all.< Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or

indirect basis of a vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of computer softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya Sidhanta. >Who told you this i think your limited world told you it.Everybody is now making horoscope by software but your claim is awesome.< I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest in getting any program from spurious sources. >Yes that is why you dowload software from all around and weeps all around from all to download it.< Onlu fools can make such programs, >Everybody is aware of this on all groups < because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! >Oh interesting !Than why are you running all just by showing NASA's mail to everybody that you have got certificate from there.< Yoy are free to make such insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I am

unable to abuse you due to my principles. >but just above this line you have written this "Onlu fools can make such programs, "so i should say you are an big idiot on this earth so it is also not abuse.Ha Ha Ha Ha< Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable. >When you have no answers of anything than those automatically becomes self defeating.See difference in years, you have written that figure in years is 1296000 yeras. Now tell me some paragraphs back you have written this "Surya Sidhanta whose terms are mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta Shiromani, but the text

became extinct in ancient period, " but surya sidhat is preserned with you even it could have been older that 1296000 years.Are you serious ?? or making fool of your self.< It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras did not form a distinct race. >When you have not read anything except Suryasidhanta than all things will look like invetion. Ha Ha Ha Ha...< You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were "befooled" by Maya, why are you quoting "fools" like Varahamihria ? >Your angerness is self defeating as it is being shown by your those

lines.< You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it. Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in astrological forums, I have to reply >Than why you dont join his forum why are you scared.If you are so confident than join his forum. < Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said "I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such discussions. ) >You even doesnt not know name of Vedic Months, later you stolen from his mail and now put in your mail itself and which backfired.< I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and schools. Many

govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an expert, >That is why ppl, there is problem.You have not read many things and you are expert??< I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum opened by himself. >You already have said that you are expert but you himself have not proved value in front of him than imagine about his values.By the way why you think that you are so great, have never come out from Patna< Please do not waste my time with your "scholarship" in abuses and false citations. >Please waste some time as all are reading your mails and want to check your mettle which you want to prove.So Join Hidu Calendar Forum.--- On Sun, 31/5/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's

Heritagevedic astrologySunday, 31 May, 2009, 1:15 PMThis message from the fake ID "jyotishi2001" was traced to the same source Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.<<< "BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga based entirely on the Surya Sidhata" >>>Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a correct panchanga, it is not my fault.<<< "Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the Surya Sidhanta! You must know that even

Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also is based on the Surya Sidhanta! " >>>I do not say, the first verse of Makaranda Saarani says that it is based on Suryasiddhanta. All other extant versions of Suryasiddhanta are later works. Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya is NOT based on the Surya Sidhanta, only its Sun and Moon were taken from Suryasiddhanta. Try to study something before posting wrong statements on public fora. <<< "planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava and the Surya Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts and not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc" >>>Grahalghava is a "laaghava" work, which means a "shortcut". It has no rationale, no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical astronomy. For physical astronomy, there was a Drikpakshiya

Surya Sidhanta whose terms are mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta Shiromani, but the text became extinct in ancient period, because it was not preserved due to its inapplicability in astrology.<<< "But it appears you are an exception since you are the only one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with other jyotishis first " >>>Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of a vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of computer softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya Sidhanta. For instance, only Hrikesha Panchanga of Varanasi sell 700,000 copies, whose Tithi, Yoga, Rasi, Karana, Nakshatra, Sun and Moon are Suryasidhantic (Makaranda) but other planets are from Grahalaaghava. Before declaring me to be

an exception, read the fourth item in this webpage ; Also read this item ; and this too .<<< "Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world! After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any discussoin on any point!">>>I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest in getting any program from spurious sources. Onlu fools can make such programs, because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! Yoy are free to make such insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I am unable to abuse you due to my principles.<<< "Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa king Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana

and neither of them had claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about, Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years!" >>>Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable.<<< "Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) ">>>It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was an Asura. So was

Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras did not form a distinct race.<<< "Varahamihria has called yavanas as mlechhas ....... (Maya) made a fool of the Hindus">>>You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were "befooled" by Maya, why are you quoting "fools" like Varahamihria ?<<< "You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other "Vedic astrologers" , that all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita etc. etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis!">>>I have already answered this point in detail : Manusmriti eulogises Jyotisha but prohibits Nakshatrasoochakas.

Nakshatrasoochakas were those persons, like you, who "observed" the celestial bodies (physical planets) instead of relying upon the Jyotisha-shaastra whose fundamental text is Suryasiddhanta.<<< "Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum....... you have been banned from Hinducalendar forum" >>>You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it. Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in astrological forums, I have to reply.<<< "Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it yourself actually! ........ you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either...... ......jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave alone the Vedas" >>>Thanks

for your abusive remarks. You earlier said "I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such discussions. ) I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and schools. Many govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an expert, I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum opened by himself.Please do not waste my time with your "scholarship" in abuses and false citations.-VJ============ ========= ======= ====____________ _________ _________ __jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ >vedic astrologySunday, May 31, 2009 2:36:58 PM[vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's HeritageDear Vinayji,BHU, the world famous university of

Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga based entirely on the Surya Sidhata, since it is a divine work according to them. However, when it comes to calculating heliacal rising and setting of planets, they get the data from PAC, Kolkatta!Similarly, they cannot caluclate eclipses on their own. They get that information also from PAC, who in turn get it from IMD, who in turn get it from NASA/JPL! Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the Surya Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also is based on the Surya Sidhanta!In any case, it means that planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava and the Surya Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts and not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc.The second question is that if the Surya Sidhanta longitudes are correct for astrological purposes, this forum i.e. Vedic-astrology () and

other jyotisha forums must immediately switch over to those panchangas instead of Lahiri panchangas! But it appears you are an exception since you are the only one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of Mr. Kaul!It is also news to me that Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum, since I did not see any post from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world!It could also have been that you joined that forum to download some program for calculating the

mean places of all the important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD for free since that type of program also is not available anywhere else! After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any discussoin on any point!You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas already! Why don't you give that information on this forum as well, since the name of this forum itself is Vedic-astrology and it will augment its strength in arguing against the "tirades" of Mr. Kaul, whom it has banned, instead of answering his questions!Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is already a debate going on in Abhinavagupta and other forums. It appears you just see only sone selected mails from some forums!Regarding the Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it yourself actually! The Author of that work is Maya which is not an Indian name! Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of

Rakshasa king Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about, Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years!It appears you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either, since Varahamoihria has called yavanas as mlechhas in his Brihat Samhita! And the fact of the matter is that Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) jyotishi who took recourse to lies and nothing but lies that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him by Surya Bhagwan! He thus made a fool of the Hindus of India, thus proving himself to be a stooge of the Greeks to mislead the Hindus by making them astro-buffs!You are also blissfully unaware,

like all the other "Vedic astrologers" , that all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita etc. etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! The famos Hindu stalwart Vishnugupta Kautilya aka Chanakya also has advised that a king should never run after nakshatras/nakshatr a-soochis since that way he will lose his own 'lakshya'The tragic fact is that jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave alone the Vedas, but only books on phalita jyotisha, and all the jyotishis these days vie with one another to prove such non-sense as based on the Vedas, when actually "Vedic astrology" is really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!Do you know that asstronomically zodiac is an aimaginary belt? That means that the Rashichakras galore on which jyotishis are basing their predictions is nothing but a fantassy of jyotishis! Being imaginary, any jyotishi can divide it into any number of equal divisions, whether

twenty-seven or twelve or even 360! And all those divisions are thus imaginary! And the lordships of thos imaginary divisions ascribed to Mars, Shani etc. also is as nothing but height of imagination!IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE REAL DEFINITIOPN OF ZODIAC, DO CONSULT ANY DICTIONARY!But then, we must not forget that jyotishis make correct predictions only from incorrect data, especially if that data is imaginary, the predictioins will naturally be "most accurate".With regards,jyotishi2001PS What is also surprising is that on the one hand you say that you have been banned from Hinducalendar forum but now you say that you have no time to join that forum! What is the fact actually, Mr.. Vinay Jha?jyotishi2001vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ....> wrote:>> <<< "I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the> Vedas, Puranas,

Sidhantas etc. etc. and even phalita-jyotisha shastras,> as Mr. Kaul!">>>> > > I have already given references to Raashi in Vedas, yet Mr AKK & c> neglect my messages and keep on harping that Raashi was unknown in> Vedic period.. I countered his wrong computations of ayanamsha, and instead> of answering me he left the debate and is boycotting me since then, and therafter Mr Prashant Pandey> descended from somewhere to abuse me.> > Hindu Calendar does not need reforms from those who do not know how to compute planetary positions. I do not need certificates from you.. I have first hand experience of> the "greatness" of Mr Kaul. > > Mr Kaul & c are abusing Siddhantic astronomy as "foreign". It is sour grape syndrome of ignorants. If the team of Mr Kaul gives an answer to a very simple question from Siddhantic astronomy, which a 20-21 year year old

student of Jyotishaachaarya is expected to know, I vow I will become a slave of Mr Kaul in all matters :> > Makaranda Tables are oldest tables (1478 AD) based on Suryasiddhanta, older than the extant manuscripts of Ranganaatha and others. Please give give the Suryasiddhantic equation of Makaranda Table of equation of centre (Manda Phala) for any of the five planets from Mercury to Saturn. The first verse of Makaranda Tablessays it is Suryasiddhantic.> > Or, give me the date of Vedaanga Jyotisha which Mr AKK claims to be of 1300 BCE. If Mr AKK proves his date right, even with a margin of eroor of many centuries, I will become his disciple and slave.> > OK ???> > I cannot join all forums. There are only 24 hours in a day, and I have> set foot outside my working place for two months due to overload of> work.> > -VJ> ============ ========= === ============

====> > > ____________ _________ _________ __> jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ ...>> vedic astrology> Saturday, May 30, 2009 2:44:14 PM> [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage> > > > > > Dear Vinayji,> Why don't you join HinduCalendar forum and express your differences there since, as far as I know, posts on that forum are not moderated and nobody has been banned from that forum, unlike this Vedic-astrology forum, that has banned Mr. Kaul.> I know you will call me a stooge of Mr. Kaul, or even Kaul with a fake id, but that does not matter, since I want you to find out for yourself certain facts about the real Vedic culture, as I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even

phalita-jyotisha shastras, as Mr. Kaul! After all, he was not awarded NOSTRADAMUS AWARD for correct predictions for nothing!> Best regards,> Jyotishi2001> > vedic astrology, "vinayjhaa16" <vinayjhaa16@ .....> wrote:> >> > Mr Prashant Pandey has been entrusted by the team of Mr AK Kaul to abuse> > ancient Siddhaantas as works of Rakshasas (demons) and includes me among> > demons : "Those Devils(Terrorists, Aatankwadi log) are still around and> > roaming around,, even on internet- forums now-a-days".> > > > Jyotisha has three skandhas from ancient times : Siddhaanta, Horaa, and> > Samhitaa, and the team of Mr AKK is hell bent on declaring entire> > Jyotisha as foreign, basing their fallacious arguments not upon original> > Indian works but upon biased opinions of Hindu-haters like Wiztel. Mr>

> AKK and Mr Prashant Pandey believe in one part of anti-India propaganda> > by abusing Jyotisha, esp Siddhanta, while keeps quiet about about> > another part of this anti-India propaganda which regards all Rishis to> > be descendants of beef eaters from Eastern Europe (Aryan Invasion> > Theory).> > > > Mr Prashant Pandey can only abuse me because he and his guru AKK are> > deficient in arguments. AKK & c do not know any skandha of Jyotisha,> > Siddhaanta, Horaa or Samhitaa, and therefore they must abuse the grapes> > as sour.> > > > This is an astrological forum which Mr Prashant Pandey is misusing for> > abusing Indian astrology. Calling me a demon will not give these fellows> > knowleable about Siddhanta.. Please ask them to solve the problem of> > Vedanga Jyotisha dating which they are now putting in the

category of> > works influenced by foreigners : show here how it can be put around 1300> > or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote. Borrowing Western garbage and abusing> > Indian texts will not make them Hindus. Hence, please show here how> > Vedanga Jyotisha can be put around 1300 or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote .> > Instead of abusing, use some brains (if you have any) to solve this> > problem. Witzel puts Vedanga Jyotisha around 300 BCE, neglecting the> > astronomical conditions described. Colebrooke & c put it around 1400 BCE,> > which AKK accepts. But both are wrong. Vedanga Jyotisha is a much> > earlier work, and any honest discussion will faksify the claim of those> > who regard any Veda or Vedanga as foreign.> > > > -Vinay Jha> > ============ ======== =====> > vedic astrology, Astrolearner

Brazil> > <astrolearner_ brazil@> wrote:> > >> > > --- On Thu, 28/5/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@ wrote:> > >> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@> > > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: David Pingree's and Eric Forbes' papers> > on Mesopotamian influence on Indian astronomy> > > hinducalendar> > > Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 7:45 AM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Abhinavagupta, "Sunthar Visuvalingam"> > suntharv@ .> wrote:> > >> > > You can find the full text of David Pingree's paper "The Mesopotamian> > Origin> > > of Early Indian Mathematical Astronomy" at> > >> > > http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu//full/ 1973JHA.. ...4....1P/> > 0000001.000. htm> > > l> > > <http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu/full/ 1973JHA.. ....4....1P/> > 0000001.000. htm> > > l>> > >> > > and also another relevant paper (in PDF) by Eric G. Forbes,> > "Mesopotamian> > > and Greek influences on Ancient Indian Astronomy and on the work of> > > ÂryabhaTa at> > >> > > http://www.new. dli.ernet. in/rawdataupload /upload/insa/> > INSA_1/20005af8_ 150.pd> > > f> > >> > > Sunthar> > >> > > [Follow-up on my comment (below) on Francesco's post (26 May 2009) at>

> >> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5047> > >> > > Rest of this thread at Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at> > >> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5051]> > >> > > â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"â€"> > >> > > Francesco,> > >> > > I've temporarily changed the setting to allow members to upload files,> > and> > > will change it back to moderator only after you post the link to the> > > uploaded file(s).> > >> > > >> > >> > >

>> > >> > > Sunthar> > >> > > > > > Francesco Brighenti> > > Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:07 AM> > > Abhinavagupta> > > [Abhinavagupta] Re: Secrets of the Earth> > >> > > >> > >> > > Indeed, on pp. 72-74 of his paper uploaded at> > >> > > http://www.ejvs. laurasianacademy .com/ejvs0703/ ejvs0703article. pdf> > ,> > >> > > Witzel therein supplies a terse yet dense discussion of the wrong> > (according> > > to his views) dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE. To this effect, he also> > cites a> > > paper by the well-known world espert of jyotihshastra (Sanskrit astral>

> and> > > mathematical literature), David Pingree, which I have loaded on my PC> > (D.> > > Pingree, "The Mesopotamian Origin of Early Indian Mathematical> > Astronomy,"> > > _Journal for the History of Astronomy_ 4 [1973], pp. 1-12). I'd like> > to> > > upload a copy of this paper on the Files section of the Abhinavagupta> > List,> > > but, due to some restriction set up by the Moderator, this is not> > allowed to> > > me (and I cannot even attach it to a message to the List because I> > don't use> > > an e-mail program, but write my messages directly on the Web instead).> > If> > > Sunthar wants, I can e-mail a copy of this paper directly to him as a> > PDF> > > attachment, and he can then add it to the List's Files section. In the> > >

meanwhile, you can read Witzel's faithful summary of Pingree's> > arguments> > > against the dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE on p. 73 of the paper whose> > link I> > > have provided above.> > >> > > I'd like to see your detailed counter-arguments against Pingree & > > Witzel's> > > conclusions, Koenraad. Same w.r.t. Avtar Krishen Kaul's post archived> > at> > >> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5036 ,> > >> > > for, as far as I can see, his "super-high" chronology for the Vedas> > and the> > > Mahabharata almost entirely rests on the assumption that the VJ was> > composed> > > circa 1400 BCE.> > >> > > Kindest regards,> > >>

> > Francesco> > >> > > [Response to Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at> > >> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5044]> > >> > > ------------ --------> > >> > > --- End forwarded message ---> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with > > India Travel http://in..travel. /> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> > >> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Sunil Da,

 

This is your first message (after a long time) in which I seem to be a human

being deserving any civil rights and civil behaviour (no sarcasm intended). You

had serious misgivings about my integrity and credibility, in spite on my

insistence to discuss all areas of differences fairly and cordially. When the

language becomes offensive, real discussion does not take place.

 

Here is the address of Brown university's website which you could not find :

http://www.wilbourhall.org/

 

It will give you a lot of rare texts, and a lot of pleasure.

 

Following are my answers to points raised by you :

 

1)

I do not want to discuss eclipses with all and sundry, because it is not

possible to convince everyone that astrological planets are different from

physical planets. It is a good thing you know phalit. Within a day or two, you

will get something from me.

 

2)

Mr. Prashant Pandey had himself told me, in an email, that he is using fake IDs

(much after he attacked you taking my side without my knowledge). Moreover, I

know how to use Email Tracer software, which I used to locate you in Sidney (it

is simple and you can learn it in a minute). Thirdly, the language and topics

are help in recognition. Fourthly, it is a useless topic.

 

3)

Your points about AKK are valid.

 

4)

" I do not know much about the events that Jyotishi2001 is referring to "

 

He did not refer to any specific event, he simply levelled avgue charges merely

to defame me. I have never tried to read any mesaage or file or program in Hindu

calendar or posted any message in that forum, I only opened that forum twice to

send private messages to Mr AK Kaul & c that his followers are abusing me , and

got no replies excepting more abuses.

 

According to Suryasiddhanta, Brahmaa Ji took 47600 divya years ( * 360 to get

solar years) in creating the Creation (Srishti). This is the gap between start

of Kalpa and start of Srishti. Since the beginning of Srishti, 1955880000 years

elapsed when present Kaliyuga began, add 5109 years more to get 2009 AD.

 

" I may not agree with everything you say on Jyotishsashtra. "

 

It is natural. How can a scientist forget all his learning just after getting

few words from me ? But you did not allow any fair discussion on 61-year cycle

and tried to create an impression that I cheated IISc ( & NASA). Perhaps you

could not believe that an " astrologer " could be invited by IISc ! But you could

ask IISc instead of raising doubts abouts about my credibility and integrity.

If you can find time, you should analyze my paper on 61-year (solar) cycle.

This paper was not written for publication and was therefore very concise.

Moreover, 615 out of 814 participants at IISc conference had already read that

paper, hence my aim was merely to state salient points and not to elaborate on

things well known to experts. You are not an expert of weather science, hence

you did not know the significance of many important concepts in my paper. 60

Jovian years make a different cycle which is not related to 61 solar year cycle.

I refused to explain the

reasons behind 61-year weather cycle in discussions at IISc, and said that I do

not know the " physics " behind it. Actually, there is no " physics " behind it at

all ; the cause is Suryasiddhantic, which I could not discuss at IISc. A great

fact is being buried due to prejudices against Suryasiddhanta. This prejudice

will not harm me. I can give you intermediate files needed for properly

understanding my paper on 61-year cycle.

 

Whatever phalita jyotisha you know is more than enough for testing the absolute

accuracy of Suryasiddhanta ; please do not waste your time in resting

Suryasiddhanta PHYSICALLY, the result will be disappointment.

 

You do not understant the dilemma you have put me in by declaring your ideas

about tolas. I have no wish to offend you. Had you not discussind this thing and

kept the discussion strictly to astrology, I would have revealed everything I

know. But I cannot go against canons because I want moksha. Please try to

understand my problem.

 

Your younger brother,

 

-Vinay Jha

============================ =====

 

 

________________________________

" sunil_bhattacharjya " <sunil_bhattacharjya

 

Cc:

Monday, June 1, 2009 5:33:20 PM

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vinayji,

 

1)

I said I understand, which means I came to know from the Panchanga-makers of

West Bengal, that they use Suryasiddhanta for making the Panchanga but for the

eclipses they still get the data from PAC, Kolkata. I am not saying that they do

any Saurapakshiya calculations either. I am not a Panchanga-maker myself so I do

not have the first hand experience in Panchanga-making and have to go by what

the Panchanga-makers say.

 

2)

How are you so sure that Indian Kachua is Mr. Prashant Pandey?

 

3)

AKK's sole agenda is to remove the predictive astrology alongwith predictions.

Calendar making for him is just a ruse to attract attention. Astrology and

Astronomy constitute Jyotishsashtra. So he wants to break the astrology-arm of

the Jyotishsashtra, which is a Vedanga (Veda + Anga or part). Thus he is

attacking Hinduism. Manu in the highest Dharmasashtra wants the kings (rulers)

to consult astrology but AKK says that astrology should not be consulted. Now

that he was shown that the rashis are in the Veda, be prepared to hear from him

that the Vedas have come from Greece.

 

As regards AKK's software I have already expressed my apprehensions.

 

4)

Vinayji, Kindly remember that I do not condone anybody abusing you even though I

may not agree with everything you say on Jyotishsashtra. You are right when you

say that I do not know much of the phalita jyotisha. I do not charge people for

astrological guidance as I am not a professional astrologer but I find that many

people find my predictions coming correct even though I am yet to know all the

nuances of astrology. As regards the Suryasiddhanta I did read the translation

by Burgess but did not do any of the detailed calculations. I am expecting the

English translation of the Siddhanta Darpan to come out by the end of this

year, as the scholar translating that had himself told me. Once I become free

from my present preoccupations, after a couple of years, then God willing I

shall do some calculations etc. in Hindu astronomy. Have you noticed that in

Suryasiddhanta (1.47) Burgess gives a figure of 1,953,720,000 years elapsed in

the

kalpa till the end of the Satyayuga of the present Mahayuga. If you calculate

the span of the 6 earlier Manvantaras with 71 Mahayugas in each of them plus

the 27 Mahayugas of the 7th Manu ie for (6 X 71) + 27 = 453 Mahayugas then the

number of years comes out to be (253 X 12,000 X 360) = 1,956,960,000 years +

the span of the Satya yuga of the present Mahayuga. You can see that this

figure is higher than the figure given in the translation by Burgess. It appears

to me that there are some grey areas in that which need careful study.

 

If Jyotishi2001 made false accusations against you and called you a thief

undeservedly then it is highly condemnable and I am sure all the members of the

forum will condemn that. Since I do not know much about the events that

Jyotishi2001 is referring to I will rather not make any comment on the specific

events. You have already asked Jyotishi2001 to give the proofs of the thefts

from the fora. However one has also to keep in mind that if one learns something

from a forum legitimately and do not use it when required then what is the use

of that learning.

 

- SKB

 

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:34 PM

 

Sunil ji,

 

Mr jyotishi2001 says : " you are an exception since you are the only one who

claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other

jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul! "

 

It is a false and prejudiced statement. In a major part of India traditional

panchangas are still being made from manuals originally based on Suryasiddhanta.

Indian_kachua (Mr Prashant Pandey also makes a similarly false claim by saying

that all horoscopes are now made from softwares and not from panchangas ! He

imagines every Indian has a computer!! Mr jyotishi2001 is wrong in saying that I

am an exception.. It is inconceivable that he has not seen any traditional

panchanga !

 

Mr AK Kaul gave a wrong computation of Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in AIA, which I

refuted by explaining the method of computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in

detail : but Mr AKK left the discussion and later deployed Mr Prashant Pandey to

abuse me away or from forums or ban me. Now, Mr jyotishi2001 thinks AKK is the

" arbiter " of all matters related to astronomy, astrology and ancient texts !

 

Mr jyotishi2001 makes other false charges on me, eg " It is also news to me that

Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum, since I did not see any post

from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs

for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and

moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe

available anywhere else in the world! It could also have been that you joined

that forum to download some program for calculating the mean places of all the

important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD for free since that type of program

also is not available anywhere else! After having downloaded those programs, you

just left that forum without any discussoin on any point! "

 

I never became a member of Hindu Calendar or even tried to read any post by

anyone there , and a non-member cannot download any program. Mr jyotishi2001 is

simply taking a resort to false accusations for character assassination, . which

is the weapon of inferior people.

 

Mr Jyotishi2001 says " You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas

already! Why don't you give that information on this forum as well "

 

He does not read my postings. Let him ask Mr Prashant Pandey to whom I sent the

proofs, and got abuses in return.

 

Planetary equations of modern physicas cannot give reliable positions for remote

ages, because the higher order terms in differential equations increase in

proportion and it is difficult ti ascertain whether these higher order terms are

right or wrong, because science has data only of a few centuries. Hence, Mr

AKK's claims of having software for +/- 12000 year's is merely a hoax.

 

Mr Jyotishi2001 hates Vedic astrology but calls himself a " Jyotishi " , and

divines things about me : " Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is

already a debate going on in Abhinavagupta and other forums! "

 

I am not a member of Abhinavagupta forum. Why the team of Mr AKK cannot prove

the date of Vedanga Jyotisha HERE ?

 

He says " It appears you just see only sone selected mails from some forums "

 

Can Mr Jyotishi2001 cite which of my posts contain proofs of mt thefts from

other fora ? He is simply calling me a thief, yet Sunil ji concludes that Mr

Jyotishi2001 is not abusive. Mr Jyotishi says : " Regarding the Surya Sidhanta

being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it yourself actually!...

....you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either " . Mr Jyotishi2001 makwes

false statement in my name : " you say that you have been banned from

Hinducalendar forum " . I never said so, because I never tried to even apply for a

membership in Hindu Calendar. I got the taste of Mr AKK's scholarship in AIA,

where he left the debate midway and later his shishyas started abusing me.

 

-VJ

============ ========= ========= ============

 

____________ _________ _________ __

" sunil_bhattacharjy a @ " <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>

 

Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology

Monday, June 1, 2009 6:51:50 AM

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Dear All,

 

The id " Jyotishi2001 " is not fake. It is commdendable that in reply to one of my

mails he boldly disclosed that his name is M.S.Menon. He was originally from

Chennai and presently stays with his children somewhere, which he did not

disclose. I found that his language was not abusive even when he does not like

any mail. He probably did not like my asking his name and he asked me back as to

why I do not ask everybody's name.

 

To my knowledge in West Bengal all Panjikas (Panchangas) use Suryasiddhanta

except for the time of the eclipses as the Suryasiddhantic calculations do not

give the time of the eclipses correct upto minutes, probably due to the

extremely small changes in the earth's movements and the Earth-Moon distance

since the time when the Suryasiddhanta was composed. Vinayji may not agree to

that but that seems to be the opinion of Hartley, who to my knowledge, also did

the eclipse calculations using the Suryasiddhanta and found some very small

differences in time. The Panjika-makers there get the eclipse data from the

Positional Astronomy Centre at Kolkata.

 

To my knowledge AKK makes big claims regarding his software and that his

software is based on NASA materials but I would be curious to know if that

software been tested for its authenticity and certified by any scientific

authority like NASA. I think it is high time if AKK gets it checked by some

reputed authorities, if not already done and let that information also be

available to the public.

 

It is a pity that the " Siddhanta Darpana " , the great 18th century work, has yet

to get its due publicity till now probably because it is yet to be translated to

English. I understand that presently the English translation is in press and we

can hope to see that shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ > wrote:

 

Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ >

Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Sunday, May 31, 2009, 4:08 PM

 

< This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

>

 

Go and check all mails are comeing from same source as server of is

there.Why are you making fool of yourself.

 

< Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault. >

 

When they are trying to correct itself with data from Kolkata observatory than

those are wrong.You himself claimed that in past Suryasidhanta was not able to

calculate the eclipse.That reply was to Sunil Bhattacharjya. Go and ask to him,

he will point that out.

 

< Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " .. It has no

rationale, no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct

only for making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical

astronomy. >

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha...good writting.... it has already been exposed by all.

 

< Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of

a vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of

computer softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya

Sidhanta. >

 

Who told you this i think your limited world told you it.Everybody is now making

horoscope by software but your claim is awesome.

 

< I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest

in getting any program from spurious sources. >

 

Yes that is why you dowload software from all around and weeps all around from

all to download it.

 

< Onlu fools can make such programs, >

 

Everybody is aware of this on all groups

 

< because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! >

Oh interesting !Than why are you running all just by showing NASA's mail to

everybody that you have got certificate from there.

 

< Yoy are free to make such insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I

am unable to abuse you due to my principles. >

but just above this line you have written this " Onlu fools can make such

programs, "

so i should say you are an big idiot on this earth so it is also not abuse.Ha Ha

Ha Ha

 

< Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable. >

 

When you have no answers of anything than those automatically becomes self

defeating.See difference in years, you have written that figure in years is

1296000 yeras. Now tell me some paragraphs back you have written this " Surya

Sidhanta whose terms are mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta

Shiromani, but the text became extinct in ancient period, " but surya sidhat is

preserned with you even it could have been older that 1296000 years.Are you

serious ?? or making fool of your self.

 

< It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race. >

 

When you have not read anything except Suryasidhanta than all things will look

like invetion. Ha Ha Ha Ha...

 

< You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ? >

 

Your angerness is self defeating as it is being shown by your those lines.

 

< You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply >

 

Than why you dont join his forum why are you scared.If you are so confident than

join his forum..

 

< Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) >

 

You even doesnt not know name of Vedic Months, later you stolen from his mail

and now put in your mail itself and which backfired.

 

< I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and schools. Many

govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an expert, >

 

That is why ppl, there is problem.You have not read many things and you are

expert??

 

< I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum opened by

himself. >

 

You already have said that you are expert but you himself have not proved value

in front of him than imagine about his values.

 

By the way why you think that you are so great, have never come out from Patna

 

< Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations. >

Please waste some time as all are reading your mails and want to check your

mettle which you want to prove.So Join Hidu Calendar Forum.

 

--- On Sun, 31/5/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

vedic astrology

Sunday, 31 May, 2009, 1:15 PM

 

This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

 

<<< " BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga

based entirely on the Surya Sidhata " >>>

 

Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault.

 

<<< " Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the

Surya Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also

is based on the Surya Sidhanta! " >>>

 

I do not say, the first verse of Makaranda Saarani says that it is based on

Suryasiddhanta. All other extant versions of Suryasiddhanta are later works..

Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya is NOT based on the Surya Sidhanta, only its

Sun and Moon were taken from Suryasiddhanta. Try to study something before

posting wrong statements on public fora.

 

<<< " planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava and the Surya

Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts and

not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc " >>>

 

Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " . It has no rationale,

no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct only for

making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical astronomy. For

physical astronomy, there was a Drikpakshiya Surya Sidhanta whose terms are

mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta Shiromani, but the text became

extinct in ancient period, because it was not preserved due to its

inapplicability in astrology.

 

<<< " But it appears you are an exception since you are the only one who claims

to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis

left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with

other jyotishis first " >>>

 

Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of a

vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of computer

softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya Sidhanta.

For instance, only Hrikesha Panchanga of Varanasi sell 700,000 copies, whose

Tithi, Yoga, Rasi, Karana, Nakshatra, Sun and Moon are Suryasidhantic

(Makaranda) but other planets are from Grahalaaghava. Before declaring me to be

an exception, read the fourth item in this webpage ; Also read this item ; and

this too .

 

<<< " Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for

calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon

from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available

anywhere else in the world! After having downloaded those programs, you just

left that forum without any discussoin on any point! " >>>

 

I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest in

getting any program from spurious sources. Onlu fools can make such programs,

because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! Yoy are free to make such

insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I am unable to abuse you due to

my principles.

 

<<< " Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa king

Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years! " >>>

 

Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable.

 

<<< " Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) " >>>

 

It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race.

 

<<< " Varahamihria has called yavanas as mlechhas ....... (Maya) made a fool of

the Hindus " >>>

 

You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ?

 

<<< " You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " ,

that all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita

etc. etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! " >>>

 

I have already answered this point in detail : Manusmriti eulogises Jyotisha but

prohibits Nakshatrasoochakas. Nakshatrasoochakas were those persons, like you,

who " observed " the celestial bodies (physical planets) instead of relying upon

the Jyotisha-shaastra whose fundamental text is Suryasiddhanta.

 

<<< " Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum....... you have been banned

from Hinducalendar forum " >>>

 

You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply.

 

<<< " Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it

yourself actually! ........ you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha

either...... ......jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave alone

the Vedas " >>>

 

Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and

schools. Many govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an

expert, I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum

opened by himself.

 

Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations.

 

-VJ

============ ========= ======= ====

 

____________ _________ _________ __

jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ >

vedic astrology

Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:36:58 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

 

Dear Vinayji,

BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga based

entirely on the Surya Sidhata, since it is a divine work according to them.

However, when it comes to calculating heliacal rising and setting of planets,

they get the data from PAC, Kolkatta!

Similarly, they cannot caluclate eclipses on their own. They get that

information also from PAC, who in turn get it from IMD, who in turn get it from

NASA/JPL!

Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the Surya

Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also is

based on the Surya Sidhanta!

In any case, it means that planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava

and the Surya Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth

charts and not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc.

The second question is that if the Surya Sidhanta longitudes are correct for

astrological purposes, this forum i.e. Vedic-astrology () and other

jyotisha forums must immediately switch over to those panchangas instead of

Lahiri panchangas! But it appears you are an exception since you are the only

one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas

other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul!

 

It is also news to me that Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum,

since I did not see any post from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum

only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc.. and the

planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free,

because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world!

It could also have been that you joined that forum to download some program for

calculating the mean places of all the important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030

AD for free since that type of program also is not available anywhere else!

After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any

discussoin on any point!

 

You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas already! Why don't you

give that information on this forum as well, since the name of this forum itself

is Vedic-astrology and it will augment its strength in arguing against the

" tirades " of Mr. Kaul, whom it has banned, instead of answering his questions!

Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is already a debate going on in

Abhinavagupta and other forums. It appears you just see only sone selected mails

from some forums!

Regarding the Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not

read it yourself actually! The Author of that work is Maya which is not an

Indian name! Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa

king Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years!

 

It appears you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either, since

Varahamoihria has called yavanas as mlechhas in his Brihat Samhita! And the fact

of the matter is that Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) jyotishi who took recourse

to lies and nothing but lies that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him by

Surya Bhagwan! He thus made a fool of the Hindus of India, thus proving himself

to be a stooge of the Greeks to mislead the Hindus by making them astro-buffs!

 

You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " , that

all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita etc.

etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! The famos Hindu

stalwart Vishnugupta Kautilya aka Chanakya also has advised that a king should

never run after nakshatras/nakshatr a-soochis since that way he will lose his

own 'lakshya'

The tragic fact is that jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave

alone the Vedas, but only books on phalita jyotisha, and all the jyotishis these

days vie with one another to prove such non-sense as based on the Vedas, when

actually " Vedic astrology " is really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Do you know that asstronomically zodiac is an aimaginary belt? That means that

the Rashichakras galore on which jyotishis are basing their predictions is

nothing but a fantassy of jyotishis! Being imaginary, any jyotishi can divide it

into any number of equal divisions, whether twenty-seven or twelve or even 360!

And all those divisions are thus imaginary! And the lordships of thos imaginary

divisions ascribed to Mars, Shani etc. also is as nothing but height of

imagination!

 

IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE REAL DEFINITIOPN OF ZODIAC, DO CONSULT ANY

DICTIONARY!

But then, we must not forget that jyotishis make correct predictions only from

incorrect data, especially if that data is imaginary, the predictioins will

naturally be " most accurate " .

With regards,

jyotishi2001

PS

What is also surprising is that on the one hand you say that you have been

banned from Hinducalendar forum but now you say that you have no time to join

that forum! What is the fact actually, Mr.. Vinay Jha?

jyotishi2001

vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ....> wrote:

>

> <<< " I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the

> Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even phalita-jyotisha shastras,

> as Mr. Kaul! " >>>

>

>

> I have already given references to Raashi in Vedas, yet Mr AKK & c

> neglect my messages and keep on harping that Raashi was unknown in

> Vedic period.. I countered his wrong computations of ayanamsha, and instead

> of answering me he left the debate and is boycotting me since then, and

therafter Mr Prashant Pandey

> descended from somewhere to abuse me.

>

> Hindu Calendar does not need reforms from those who do not know how to compute

planetary positions. I do not need certificates from you.. I have first hand

experience of

> the " greatness " of Mr Kaul.

>

> Mr Kaul & c are abusing Siddhantic astronomy as " foreign " . It is sour grape

syndrome of ignorants. If the team of Mr Kaul gives an answer to a very simple

question from Siddhantic astronomy, which a 20-21 year year old student of

Jyotishaachaarya is expected to know, I vow I will become a slave of Mr Kaul in

all matters :

>

> Makaranda Tables are oldest tables (1478 AD) based on Suryasiddhanta, older

than the extant manuscripts of Ranganaatha and others. Please give give the

Suryasiddhantic equation of Makaranda Table of equation of centre (Manda Phala)

for any of the five planets from Mercury to Saturn. The first verse of Makaranda

Tablessays it is Suryasiddhantic.

>

> Or, give me the date of Vedaanga Jyotisha which Mr AKK claims to be of 1300

BCE. If Mr AKK proves his date right, even with a margin of eroor of many

centuries, I will become his disciple and slave.

>

> OK ???

>

> I cannot join all forums. There are only 24 hours in a day, and I have

> set foot outside my working place for two months due to overload of

> work.

>

> -VJ

> ============ ========= === ============ ====

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ ...>

> vedic astrology

> Saturday, May 30, 2009 2:44:14 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

> Why don't you join HinduCalendar forum and express your differences there

since, as far as I know, posts on that forum are not moderated and nobody has

been banned from that forum, unlike this Vedic-astrology forum, that has banned

Mr. Kaul.

> I know you will call me a stooge of Mr. Kaul, or even Kaul with a fake id, but

that does not matter, since I want you to find out for yourself certain facts

about the real Vedic culture, as I have yet to see anyone, including you, with

such a command over the Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even

phalita-jyotisha shastras, as Mr. Kaul! After all, he was not awarded

NOSTRADAMUS AWARD for correct predictions for nothing!

> Best regards,

> Jyotishi2001

>

> vedic astrology, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ .....>

wrote:

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey has been entrusted by the team of Mr AK Kaul to abuse

> > ancient Siddhaantas as works of Rakshasas (demons) and includes me among

> > demons : " Those Devils(Terrorists, Aatankwadi log) are still around and

> > roaming around,, even on internet- forums now-a-days " .

> >

> > Jyotisha has three skandhas from ancient times : Siddhaanta, Horaa, and

> > Samhitaa, and the team of Mr AKK is hell bent on declaring entire

> > Jyotisha as foreign, basing their fallacious arguments not upon original

> > Indian works but upon biased opinions of Hindu-haters like Wiztel. Mr

> > AKK and Mr Prashant Pandey believe in one part of anti-India propaganda

> > by abusing Jyotisha, esp Siddhanta, while keeps quiet about about

> > another part of this anti-India propaganda which regards all Rishis to

> > be descendants of beef eaters from Eastern Europe (Aryan Invasion

> > Theory).

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey can only abuse me because he and his guru AKK are

> > deficient in arguments. AKK & c do not know any skandha of Jyotisha,

> > Siddhaanta, Horaa or Samhitaa, and therefore they must abuse the grapes

> > as sour.

> >

> > This is an astrological forum which Mr Prashant Pandey is misusing for

> > abusing Indian astrology. Calling me a demon will not give these fellows

> > knowleable about Siddhanta.. Please ask them to solve the problem of

> > Vedanga Jyotisha dating which they are now putting in the category of

> > works influenced by foreigners : show here how it can be put around 1300

> > or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote. Borrowing Western garbage and abusing

> > Indian texts will not make them Hindus. Hence, please show here how

> > Vedanga Jyotisha can be put around 1300 or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote .

> > Instead of abusing, use some brains (if you have any) to solve this

> > problem. Witzel puts Vedanga Jyotisha around 300 BCE, neglecting the

> > astronomical conditions described. Colebrooke & c put it around 1400 BCE,

> > which AKK accepts. But both are wrong. Vedanga Jyotisha is a much

> > earlier work, and any honest discussion will faksify the claim of those

> > who regard any Veda or Vedanga as foreign.

> >

> > -Vinay Jha

> > ============ ======== =====

> > vedic astrology, Astrolearner Brazil

> > <astrolearner_ brazil@> wrote:

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 28/5/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@

> > > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: David Pingree's and Eric Forbes' papers

> > on Mesopotamian influence on Indian astronomy

> > > hinducalendar

> > > Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 7:45 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Abhinavagupta, " Sunthar Visuvalingam "

> > suntharv@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > You can find the full text of David Pingree's paper " The Mesopotamian

> > Origin

> > > of Early Indian Mathematical Astronomy " at

> > >

> > > http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu//full/ 1973JHA.. ...4....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l

> > > <http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu/full/ 1973JHA.. ....4.....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l>

> > >

> > > and also another relevant paper (in PDF) by Eric G. Forbes,

> > " Mesopotamian

> > > and Greek influences on Ancient Indian Astronomy and on the work of

> > > ÂryabhaTa at

> > >

> > > http://www.new. dli.ernet. in/rawdataupload /upload/insa/

> > INSA_1/20005af8_ 150.pd

> > > f

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > > [Follow-up on my comment (below) on Francesco's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5047

> > >

> > > Rest of this thread at Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5051]

> > >

> > >

†" †" †" †" †" †" âââ€\

šÂ¬ " †" †" †" †" †" †"

> > >

> > > Francesco,

> > >

> > > I've temporarily changed the setting to allow members to upload files,

> > and

> > > will change it back to moderator only after you post the link to the

> > > uploaded file(s).

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > >

> > > Francesco Brighenti

> > > Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:07 AM

> > > Abhinavagupta

> > > [Abhinavagupta] Re: Secrets of the Earth

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Indeed, on pp. 72-74 of his paper uploaded at

> > >

> > > http://www.ejvs. laurasianacademy .com/ejvs0703/ ejvs0703article. pdf

> > ,

> > >

> > > Witzel therein supplies a terse yet dense discussion of the wrong

> > (according

> > > to his views) dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE. To this effect, he also

> > cites a

> > > paper by the well-known world espert of jyotihshastra (Sanskrit astral

> > and

> > > mathematical literature), David Pingree, which I have loaded on my PC

> > (D.

> > > Pingree, " The Mesopotamian Origin of Early Indian Mathematical

> > Astronomy, "

> > > _Journal for the History of Astronomy_ 4 [1973], pp. 1-12). I'd like

> > to

> > > upload a copy of this paper on the Files section of the Abhinavagupta

> > List,

> > > but, due to some restriction set up by the Moderator, this is not

> > allowed to

> > > me (and I cannot even attach it to a message to the List because I

> > don't use

> > > an e-mail program, but write my messages directly on the Web instead).

> > If

> > > Sunthar wants, I can e-mail a copy of this paper directly to him as a

> > PDF

> > > attachment, and he can then add it to the List's Files section. In the

> > > meanwhile, you can read Witzel's faithful summary of Pingree's

> > arguments

> > > against the dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE on p. 73 of the paper whose

> > link I

> > > have provided above.

> > >

> > > I'd like to see your detailed counter-arguments against Pingree &

> > Witzel's

> > > conclusions, Koenraad. Same w.r.t. Avtar Krishen Kaul's post archived

> > at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5036 ,

> > >

> > > for, as far as I can see, his " super-high " chronology for the Vedas

> > and the

> > > Mahabharata almost entirely rests on the assumption that the VJ was

> > composed

> > > circa 1400 BCE.

> > >

> > > Kindest regards,

> > >

> > > Francesco

> > >

> > > [Response to Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5044]

> > >

> > > ------------ --------

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with

> > India Travel http://in..travel. /

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinay,

 

1) 

Thank you for sending the link for the Brown University website. Incidentally I

found that out this morning myself. Anywy thank you for that.

 

2)

Good that you confirm that Prashant Pandey is Indian Kachua.  Ha ha ha ha

ha.   He is a very dirty shameless fellow. Uchka sanskar dekhiye. Read what he

wrote to me on 13th April last.

 

Quote

Deleted by Moderator.

 

Unquote

 

3)

Inspite of my giving the Vedic reference as to where Rashi occurs in Veda this

person is incompetent to look up the Vedic verse and this proves that he really

does not want to know the facts as in that case his friend AKK's position will

be precarious. He and his likes believe that Indians did not know Rashi and that

the Greeks taught us about Rashi because AKK told them so. They do not have

guts to question AKK. 

 

If it is proved that the Rashi is there in the Veda they try to say that the

whole Hindu Community will be endangered. They want the Hindu community to

disown the Rashis so that these anti-Hindu people can rejoice. They will tell

you that one great jyotishi did not find rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha but do not

have guts to name that Jyotishi. In the first century CE Ptolemy was the first

Greek to say that the rashis have the fixed stars. Indians knew it from the

Vedic days. These  people  think that  Pingree is a scholar and the Hindus

are buffoons.

 

4)

As regards the Yuga let agree to disagree as I prefer to go by what Bhagavata

purana says about the Span of the yugas and also by the definition of Divya

Varsha as Solar year  given in the Vayu Purana. To my knowledge Bhagavata

Purana has the status of the fifth veda and Suryasiddhanta does not have that

status. You can follow your views and I shall follow mine and let us not argue

about it.

 

5)

Regarding the 61- year Monsoon cycle , which  according to you this is based

on Surya siddhanta, let us agree to disagree. You believe in 61- yera cycle and

on the other hand there are papers by scientists showing the validity od the

60-year cycle and the 30- year half-cycle. The Scientific paper cincides with

the Jupiter cycle an 30-year cycle within the 60-year cycle corresponds the

cycle of Saturn. Please do not insist on me to accept your view and I will not

insist on you to accept my view..

 

I have no objection to whatever opinion AKK holds but he cannot criticise the

religious-minded Hindus.. But he would not let others to have their own views.

He will tell you that the Hindus are doing the wrong things without giving any

proof. He is behaving like the missionaries.

 

Talking about Suryasiddhanta is not that erasy for anybody. What changes

Aryabhatta made in that and then what changes Varahamihira made in that and then

what further changes Brahmagupta made in that are to be studied. Then

there were more than half a dozen great scholars, who came subsequently. The

Makaranda's equation can be found out by the reverse calculations and though

that is not a big thing to do,  all these will require time and as I  told

you I am quite tied up for the next couple of years. May be some other scholars

will take up these studies earlier than that. The INSA scholars seem to have

been influenced by the views of the western scholars.

 

Best wishes,

 

Sunil KI. Bhattacharjya

 

 

--- On Mon, 6/1/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

 

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Monday, June 1, 2009, 9:08 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Da,

 

This is your first message (after a long time) in which I seem to be a human

being deserving any civil rights and civil behaviour (no sarcasm intended). You

had serious misgivings about my integrity and credibility, in spite on my

insistence to discuss all areas of differences fairly and cordially. When the

language becomes offensive, real discussion does not take place.

 

Here is the address of Brown university's website which you could not find :

http://www.wilbourh all.org/

 

It will give you a lot of rare texts, and a lot of pleasure.

 

Following are my answers to points raised by you :

 

1)

I do not want to discuss eclipses with all and sundry, because it is not

possible to convince everyone that astrological planets are different from

physical planets. It is a good thing you know phalit. Within a day or two, you

will get something from me.

 

2)

Mr. Prashant Pandey had himself told me, in an email, that he is using fake IDs

(much after he attacked you taking my side without my knowledge). Moreover, I

know how to use Email Tracer software, which I used to locate you in Sidney (it

is simple and you can learn it in a minute). Thirdly, the language and topics

are help in recognition. Fourthly, it is a useless topic.

 

3)

Your points about AKK are valid.

 

4)

" I do not know much about the events that Jyotishi2001 is referring to "

 

He did not refer to any specific event, he simply levelled avgue charges merely

to defame me. I have never tried to read any mesaage or file or program in Hindu

calendar or posted any message in that forum, I only opened that forum twice to

send private messages to Mr AK Kaul & c that his followers are abusing me , and

got no replies excepting more abuses.

 

According to Suryasiddhanta, Brahmaa Ji took 47600 divya years ( * 360 to get

solar years) in creating the Creation (Srishti). This is the gap between start

of Kalpa and start of Srishti. Since the beginning of Srishti, 1955880000 years

elapsed when present Kaliyuga began, add 5109 years more to get 2009 AD.

 

" I may not agree with everything you say on Jyotishsashtra. "

 

It is natural. How can a scientist forget all his learning just after getting

few words from me ? But you did not allow any fair discussion on 61-year cycle

and tried to create an impression that I cheated IISc ( & NASA). Perhaps you

could not believe that an " astrologer " could be invited by IISc ! But you could

ask IISc instead of raising doubts abouts about my credibility and integrity. If

you can find time, you should analyze my paper on 61-year (solar) cycle. This

paper was not written for publication and was therefore very concise. Moreover,

615 out of 814 participants at IISc conference had already read that paper,

hence my aim was merely to state salient points and not to elaborate on things

well known to experts. You are not an expert of weather science, hence you did

not know the significance of many important concepts in my paper. 60 Jovian

years make a different cycle which is not related to 61 solar year cycle. I

refused to explain the

reasons behind 61-year weather cycle in discussions at IISc, and said that I do

not know the " physics " behind it. Actually, there is no " physics " behind it at

all ; the cause is Suryasiddhantic, which I could not discuss at IISc. A great

fact is being buried due to prejudices against Suryasiddhanta. This prejudice

will not harm me. I can give you intermediate files needed for properly

understanding my paper on 61-year cycle.

 

Whatever phalita jyotisha you know is more than enough for testing the absolute

accuracy of Suryasiddhanta ; please do not waste your time in resting

Suryasiddhanta PHYSICALLY, the result will be disappointment.

 

You do not understant the dilemma you have put me in by declaring your ideas

about tolas. I have no wish to offend you. Had you not discussind this thing and

kept the discussion strictly to astrology, I would have revealed everything I

know. But I cannot go against canons because I want moksha. Please try to

understand my problem.

 

Your younger brother,

 

-Vinay Jha

============ ========= ======= =====

 

____________ _________ _________ __

" sunil_bhattacharjya @ " <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

 

Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology

Monday, June 1, 2009 5:33:20 PM

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Vinayji,

 

1)

I said I understand, which means I came to know from the Panchanga-makers of

West Bengal, that they use Suryasiddhanta for making the Panchanga but for the

eclipses they still get the data from PAC, Kolkata. I am not saying that they do

any Saurapakshiya calculations either. I am not a Panchanga-maker myself so I do

not have the first hand experience in Panchanga-making and have to go by what

the Panchanga-makers say.

 

2)

How are you so sure that Indian Kachua is Mr. Prashant Pandey?

 

3)

AKK's sole agenda is to remove the predictive astrology alongwith predictions.

Calendar making for him is just a ruse to attract attention. Astrology and

Astronomy constitute Jyotishsashtra. So he wants to break the astrology-arm of

the Jyotishsashtra, which is a Vedanga (Veda + Anga or part). Thus he is

attacking Hinduism. Manu in the highest Dharmasashtra wants the kings (rulers)

to consult astrology but AKK says that astrology should not be consulted. Now

that he was shown that the rashis are in the Veda, be prepared to hear from him

that the Vedas have come from Greece.

 

As regards AKK's software I have already expressed my apprehensions.

 

4)

Vinayji, Kindly remember that I do not condone anybody abusing you even though I

may not agree with everything you say on Jyotishsashtra. You are right when you

say that I do not know much of the phalita jyotisha. I do not charge people for

astrological guidance as I am not a professional astrologer but I find that many

people find my predictions coming correct even though I am yet to know all the

nuances of astrology. As regards the Suryasiddhanta I did read the translation

by Burgess but did not do any of the detailed calculations. I am expecting the

English translation of the Siddhanta Darpan to come out by the end of this year,

as the scholar translating that had himself told me. Once I become free from my

present preoccupations, after a couple of years, then God willing I shall do

some calculations etc. in Hindu astronomy. Have you noticed that in

Suryasiddhanta (1.47) Burgess gives a figure of 1,953,720,000 years elapsed in

the

kalpa till the end of the Satyayuga of the present Mahayuga. If you calculate

the span of the 6 earlier Manvantaras with 71 Mahayugas in each of them plus the

27 Mahayugas of the 7th Manu ie for (6 X 71) + 27 = 453 Mahayugas then the

number of years comes out to be (253 X 12,000 X 360) = 1,956,960,000 years + the

span of the Satya yuga of the present Mahayuga. You can see that this figure is

higher than the figure given in the translation by Burgess. It appears to me

that there are some grey areas in that which need careful study.

 

If Jyotishi2001 made false accusations against you and called you a thief

undeservedly then it is highly condemnable and I am sure all the members of the

forum will condemn that. Since I do not know much about the events that

Jyotishi2001 is referring to I will rather not make any comment on the specific

events. You have already asked Jyotishi2001 to give the proofs of the thefts

from the fora. However one has also to keep in mind that if one learns something

from a forum legitimately and do not use it when required then what is the use

of that learning.

 

- SKB

 

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Sunday, May 31, 2009, 11:34 PM

 

Sunil ji,

 

Mr jyotishi2001 says : " you are an exception since you are the only one who

claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other

jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul! "

 

It is a false and prejudiced statement. In a major part of India traditional

panchangas are still being made from manuals originally based on Suryasiddhanta.

Indian_kachua (Mr Prashant Pandey also makes a similarly false claim by saying

that all horoscopes are now made from softwares and not from panchangas ! He

imagines every Indian has a computer!! Mr jyotishi2001 is wrong in saying that I

am an exception.. It is inconceivable that he has not seen any traditional

panchanga !

 

Mr AK Kaul gave a wrong computation of Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in AIA, which I

refuted by explaining the method of computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha in

detail : but Mr AKK left the discussion and later deployed Mr Prashant Pandey to

abuse me away or from forums or ban me. Now, Mr jyotishi2001 thinks AKK is the

" arbiter " of all matters related to astronomy, astrology and ancient texts !

 

Mr jyotishi2001 makes other false charges on me, eg " It is also news to me that

Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum, since I did not see any post

from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs

for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and

moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe

available anywhere else in the world! It could also have been that you joined

that forum to download some program for calculating the mean places of all the

important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD for free since that type of program

also is not available anywhere else! After having downloaded those programs, you

just left that forum without any discussoin on any point! "

 

I never became a member of Hindu Calendar or even tried to read any post by

anyone there , and a non-member cannot download any program. Mr jyotishi2001 is

simply taking a resort to false accusations for character assassination, . which

is the weapon of inferior people.

 

Mr Jyotishi2001 says " You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas

already! Why don't you give that information on this forum as well "

 

He does not read my postings. Let him ask Mr Prashant Pandey to whom I sent the

proofs, and got abuses in return.

 

Planetary equations of modern physicas cannot give reliable positions for remote

ages, because the higher order terms in differential equations increase in

proportion and it is difficult ti ascertain whether these higher order terms are

right or wrong, because science has data only of a few centuries. Hence, Mr

AKK's claims of having software for +/- 12000 year's is merely a hoax.

 

Mr Jyotishi2001 hates Vedic astrology but calls himself a " Jyotishi " , and

divines things about me : " Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is

already a debate going on in Abhinavagupta and other forums! "

 

I am not a member of Abhinavagupta forum. Why the team of Mr AKK cannot prove

the date of Vedanga Jyotisha HERE ?

 

He says " It appears you just see only sone selected mails from some forums "

 

Can Mr Jyotishi2001 cite which of my posts contain proofs of mt thefts from

other fora ? He is simply calling me a thief, yet Sunil ji concludes that Mr

Jyotishi2001 is not abusive. Mr Jyotishi says : " Regarding the Surya Sidhanta

being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it yourself actually!...

....you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either " . Mr Jyotishi2001 makwes

false statement in my name : " you say that you have been banned from

Hinducalendar forum " . I never said so, because I never tried to even apply for a

membership in Hindu Calendar. I got the taste of Mr AKK's scholarship in AIA,

where he left the debate midway and later his shishyas started abusing me.

 

-VJ

============ ========= ========= ============

 

____________ _________ _________ __

" sunil_bhattacharjy a @ " <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>

 

Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology

Monday, June 1, 2009 6:51:50 AM

Re: Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Dear All,

 

The id " Jyotishi2001 " is not fake. It is commdendable that in reply to one of my

mails he boldly disclosed that his name is M.S.Menon. He was originally from

Chennai and presently stays with his children somewhere, which he did not

disclose. I found that his language was not abusive even when he does not like

any mail. He probably did not like my asking his name and he asked me back as to

why I do not ask everybody's name.

 

To my knowledge in West Bengal all Panjikas (Panchangas) use Suryasiddhanta

except for the time of the eclipses as the Suryasiddhantic calculations do not

give the time of the eclipses correct upto minutes, probably due to the

extremely small changes in the earth's movements and the Earth-Moon distance

since the time when the Suryasiddhanta was composed. Vinayji may not agree to

that but that seems to be the opinion of Hartley, who to my knowledge, also did

the eclipse calculations using the Suryasiddhanta and found some very small

differences in time. The Panjika-makers there get the eclipse data from the

Positional Astronomy Centre at Kolkata.

 

To my knowledge AKK makes big claims regarding his software and that his

software is based on NASA materials but I would be curious to know if that

software been tested for its authenticity and certified by any scientific

authority like NASA. I think it is high time if AKK gets it checked by some

reputed authorities, if not already done and let that information also be

available to the public.

 

It is a pity that the " Siddhanta Darpana " , the great 18th century work, has yet

to get its due publicity till now probably because it is yet to be translated to

English. I understand that presently the English translation is in press and we

can hope to see that shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ > wrote:

 

Indian Kachuaa <indian_kachua@ >

Fw: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd:

Mesopotamian influence : Disowning One's Heritage

 

Sunday, May 31, 2009, 4:08 PM

 

< This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

>

 

Go and check all mails are comeing from same source as server of is

there.Why are you making fool of yourself.

 

< Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault. >

 

When they are trying to correct itself with data from Kolkata observatory than

those are wrong.You himself claimed that in past Suryasidhanta was not able to

calculate the eclipse.That reply was to Sunil Bhattacharjya. Go and ask to him,

he will point that out.

 

< Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " .. It has no

rationale, no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct

only for making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical

astronomy. >

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha...good writting.... it has already been exposed by all.

 

< Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of

a vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of

computer softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya

Sidhanta. >

 

Who told you this i think your limited world told you it.Everybody is now making

horoscope by software but your claim is awesome.

 

< I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest

in getting any program from spurious sources. >

 

Yes that is why you dowload software from all around and weeps all around from

all to download it.

 

< Onlu fools can make such programs, >

 

Everybody is aware of this on all groups

 

< because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! >

Oh interesting !Than why are you running all just by showing NASA's mail to

everybody that you have got certificate from there.

 

< Yoy are free to make such insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I

am unable to abuse you due to my principles. >

but just above this line you have written this " Onlu fools can make such

programs, "

so i should say you are an big idiot on this earth so it is also not abuse.Ha Ha

Ha Ha

 

< Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable. >

 

When you have no answers of anything than those automatically becomes self

defeating.See difference in years, you have written that figure in years is

1296000 yeras. Now tell me some paragraphs back you have written this " Surya

Sidhanta whose terms are mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta

Shiromani, but the text became extinct in ancient period, " but surya sidhat is

preserned with you even it could have been older that 1296000 years.Are you

serious ?? or making fool of your self.

 

< It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race. >

 

When you have not read anything except Suryasidhanta than all things will look

like invetion. Ha Ha Ha Ha...

 

< You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ? >

 

Your angerness is self defeating as it is being shown by your those lines.

 

< You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply >

 

Than why you dont join his forum why are you scared.If you are so confident than

join his forum..

 

< Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) >

 

You even doesnt not know name of Vedic Months, later you stolen from his mail

and now put in your mail itself and which backfired.

 

< I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and schools. Many

govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an expert, >

 

That is why ppl, there is problem.You have not read many things and you are

expert??

 

< I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum opened by

himself. >

 

You already have said that you are expert but you himself have not proved value

in front of him than imagine about his values.

 

By the way why you think that you are so great, have never come out from Patna

 

< Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations. >

Please waste some time as all are reading your mails and want to check your

mettle which you want to prove.So Join Hidu Calendar Forum.

 

--- On Sun, 31/5/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

vedic astrology

Sunday, 31 May, 2009, 1:15 PM

 

This message from the fake ID " jyotishi2001 " was traced to the same source

Sunnydale in California from where all real and fake messages of Mr Prashant

Pandy are coming. He uses some IDs for abusing and some others for posing as an

expert, but actually knows nothing. Here are some of his new falsehoods.

 

<<< " BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga

based entirely on the Surya Sidhata " >>>

 

Vishva Panchanga is based on the faulty commentary of Christian priest E

Burgess. Its Tithi, Nakshatra, Yoga, etc in the upper table have a difference of

upto three hours from the Sun and Moon in lower table. If they cannot make a

correct panchanga, it is not my fault.

 

<<< " Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the

Surya Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also

is based on the Surya Sidhanta! " >>>

 

I do not say, the first verse of Makaranda Saarani says that it is based on

Suryasiddhanta. All other extant versions of Suryasiddhanta are later works..

Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya is NOT based on the Surya Sidhanta, only its

Sun and Moon were taken from Suryasiddhanta. Try to study something before

posting wrong statements on public fora.

 

<<< " planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava and the Surya

Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth charts and

not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc " >>>

 

Grahalghava is a " laaghava " work, which means a " shortcut " . It has no rationale,

no siddhanta. Surya Sidhanta and other texts based on it are correct only for

making correct pedictions from birth charts but not for physical astronomy. For

physical astronomy, there was a Drikpakshiya Surya Sidhanta whose terms are

mentioned in many ancient texts such as Siddhanta Shiromani, but the text became

extinct in ancient period, because it was not preserved due to its

inapplicability in astrology.

 

<<< " But it appears you are an exception since you are the only one who claims

to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas other jyotishis

left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your position with

other jyotishis first " >>>

 

Your world is limited. Surya Sidhanta is still the direct or indirect basis of a

vast majority of traditional panchangas all over India and in spite of computer

softwares most of Indian horoscopes are still being made from Surya Sidhanta.

For instance, only Hrikesha Panchanga of Varanasi sell 700,000 copies, whose

Tithi, Yoga, Rasi, Karana, Nakshatra, Sun and Moon are Suryasidhantic

(Makaranda) but other planets are from Grahalaaghava. Before declaring me to be

an exception, read the fourth item in this webpage ; Also read this item ; and

this too .

 

<<< " Maybe you had joined that forum only to donwload the programs for

calculating tithi, nakshatra etc. and the planetary position of the sun and moon

from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free, because there is no such programe available

anywhere else in the world! After having downloaded those programs, you just

left that forum without any discussoin on any point! " >>>

 

I do not know whether Hindu Calendar has any programs, and I have no interest in

getting any program from spurious sources. Onlu fools can make such programs,

because even NASA scientists cannot make such claims ! Yoy are free to make such

insulting and baseless remarks about me, because I am unable to abuse you due to

my principles.

 

<<< " Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa king

Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years! " >>>

 

Your arguments are childish and self defeating. According to you, Maya of

Mahabharata was different from Maya of Suryasiddhanta, then how Maya of Ramayana

could be the Maya of Suryasiddhanta ? The father of Mandodari belonged to end of

Treta Yuga, while the Maya of Suryasiddhanta belonged to end of Satyuga : the

difference is of 1296000 years ! Your mathematics and logic is pitiable.

 

<<< " Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) " >>>

 

It is an invention by Mr AKK & c, there is no ancient reference to it. Maya was

an Asura. So was Kamsa, the maternal uncle of Lord Krishna. But Lord Krishna or

his mother Devaki were not Asuras. Hence, a single family had one person Asura

and the other Aryan. Do not impose your racist ideas on Indian history : Asuras

did not form a distinct race.

 

<<< " Varahamihria has called yavanas as mlechhas ....... (Maya) made a fool of

the Hindus " >>>

 

You have not read Varahamihria ; he ascribed Suryasiddhanta directly to Lord

Surya. If Varahamihria was also a fool, like all Indian scholars whi were

" befooled " by Maya, why are you quoting " fools " like Varahamihria ?

 

<<< " You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " ,

that all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita

etc. etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! " >>>

 

I have already answered this point in detail : Manusmriti eulogises Jyotisha but

prohibits Nakshatrasoochakas. Nakshatrasoochakas were those persons, like you,

who " observed " the celestial bodies (physical planets) instead of relying upon

the Jyotisha-shaastra whose fundamental text is Suryasiddhanta.

 

<<< " Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum....... you have been banned

from Hinducalendar forum " >>>

 

You read more than I write. The discussion took place in AIA, which he left

instead of answering. In Hindu Calendar, I posted to him privately, but got no

response. I never joined or will join Hindu Calendar. I am not interested in it.

Let them do what they like. But when anti-astrological falsities appear in

astrological forums, I have to reply.

 

<<< " Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not read it

yourself actually! ........ you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha

either...... ......jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave alone

the Vedas " >>>

 

Thanks for your abusive remarks. You earlier said " I have yet to see anyone,

including you, with such a command over the Vedas, merely in reply to your

childish points, actually I have much nobler tasks than to waste my time on such

discussions. ) I am the trustee and secretary of many Sanskrit colleges and

schools. Many govt and non-govt institutions and universities accept me as an

expert, I do not which institute values Mt AK Kaul, excepting a forum

opened by himself.

 

Please do not waste my time with your " scholarship " in abuses and false

citations.

 

-VJ

============ ========= ======= ====

 

____________ _________ _________ __

jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ >

vedic astrology

Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:36:58 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

 

Dear Vinayji,

BHU, the world famous university of Varanasi, is publishing a panchanga based

entirely on the Surya Sidhata, since it is a divine work according to them.

However, when it comes to calculating heliacal rising and setting of planets,

they get the data from PAC, Kolkatta!

Similarly, they cannot caluclate eclipses on their own. They get that

information also from PAC, who in turn get it from IMD, who in turn get it from

NASA/JPL!

Now you say that Makaranada is the oldest work, even if it is based on the Surya

Sidhanta! You must know that even Grahalaghava by Ganesha Daivajnya also is

based on the Surya Sidhanta!

In any case, it means that planetary longitudes as per Makranada and Grahalghava

and the Surya Sidhanta are correct only for making correct pedictions from birth

charts and not for any astronomical purpose like ecliplses etc.

The second question is that if the Surya Sidhanta longitudes are correct for

astrological purposes, this forum i.e. Vedic-astrology () and other

jyotisha forums must immediately switch over to those panchangas instead of

Lahiri panchangas! But it appears you are an exception since you are the only

one who claims to make correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta, whereas

other jyotishis left it several centuries back! As such, please reconcile your

position with other jyotishis first and then subject the topic of the accuracy

of surya sidhanta longitudes even for predictive astrology to the arbitration of

Mr. Kaul!

 

It is also news to me that Mr. Kaul boycotted you from Hndu calendar forum,

since I did not see any post from you there! Maybe you had joined that forum

only to donwload the programs for calculating tithi, nakshatra etc.. and the

planetary position of the sun and moon from 10000 BC to 12030 AD, for free,

because there is no such programe available anywhere else in the world!

It could also have been that you joined that forum to download some program for

calculating the mean places of all the important stars from 10000 BCE to 12030

AD for free since that type of program also is not available anywhere else!

After having downloaded those programs, you just left that forum without any

discussoin on any point!

 

You say you have given references of Rashis in the Vedas already! Why don't you

give that information on this forum as well, since the name of this forum itself

is Vedic-astrology and it will augment its strength in arguing against the

" tirades " of Mr. Kaul, whom it has banned, instead of answering his questions!

Regarding the date of Vedanga Jyotisha, there is already a debate going on in

Abhinavagupta and other forums. It appears you just see only sone selected mails

from some forums!

Regarding the Surya Sidhanta being an indigenous work, it appears you have not

read it yourself actually! The Author of that work is Maya which is not an

Indian name! Maya was actually the father of Mandodari, the wife of Rakshasa

king Ravana! Maya was thus the father in law of Ravana and neither of them had

claimed to be of Indian origin! Maya has claimed that the planetary knowledge

was revealed to him at the fag end of the last Satya-yuga! That thus precludes

any possibility of it being the same Maya as has been referred to in the

Mahabharata, since as per the same Surya Sidhanta that you are talking about,

Treta-yuga lasted for hundreds of thousands of years!

 

It appears you do not know much about Phalita jyotisha either, since

Varahamoihria has called yavanas as mlechhas in his Brihat Samhita! And the fact

of the matter is that Maya was some Greek (Yavana!) jyotishi who took recourse

to lies and nothing but lies that the planetary knowledge was revealed to him by

Surya Bhagwan! He thus made a fool of the Hindus of India, thus proving himself

to be a stooge of the Greeks to mislead the Hindus by making them astro-buffs!

 

You are also blissfully unaware, like all the other " Vedic astrologers " , that

all the shastras, including the Manusmriti and the MBh and Atri Samhita etc.

etc. are dead against nakshatra-soochis/ nakshatra- jeevis! The famos Hindu

stalwart Vishnugupta Kautilya aka Chanakya also has advised that a king should

never run after nakshatras/nakshatr a-soochis since that way he will lose his

own 'lakshya'

The tragic fact is that jyotishis like you do not read dharmashastras, leave

alone the Vedas, but only books on phalita jyotisha, and all the jyotishis these

days vie with one another to prove such non-sense as based on the Vedas, when

actually " Vedic astrology " is really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Do you know that asstronomically zodiac is an aimaginary belt? That means that

the Rashichakras galore on which jyotishis are basing their predictions is

nothing but a fantassy of jyotishis! Being imaginary, any jyotishi can divide it

into any number of equal divisions, whether twenty-seven or twelve or even 360!

And all those divisions are thus imaginary! And the lordships of thos imaginary

divisions ascribed to Mars, Shani etc. also is as nothing but height of

imagination!

 

IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE REAL DEFINITIOPN OF ZODIAC, DO CONSULT ANY

DICTIONARY!

But then, we must not forget that jyotishis make correct predictions only from

incorrect data, especially if that data is imaginary, the predictioins will

naturally be " most accurate " .

With regards,

jyotishi2001

PS

What is also surprising is that on the one hand you say that you have been

banned from Hinducalendar forum but now you say that you have no time to join

that forum! What is the fact actually, Mr.. Vinay Jha?

jyotishi2001

vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ....> wrote:

>

> <<< " I have yet to see anyone, including you, with such a command over the

> Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even phalita-jyotisha shastras,

> as Mr. Kaul! " >>>

>

>

> I have already given references to Raashi in Vedas, yet Mr AKK & c

> neglect my messages and keep on harping that Raashi was unknown in

> Vedic period.. I countered his wrong computations of ayanamsha, and instead

> of answering me he left the debate and is boycotting me since then, and

therafter Mr Prashant Pandey

> descended from somewhere to abuse me.

>

> Hindu Calendar does not need reforms from those who do not know how to compute

planetary positions. I do not need certificates from you.. I have first hand

experience of

> the " greatness " of Mr Kaul.

>

> Mr Kaul & c are abusing Siddhantic astronomy as " foreign " . It is sour grape

syndrome of ignorants. If the team of Mr Kaul gives an answer to a very simple

question from Siddhantic astronomy, which a 20-21 year year old student of

Jyotishaachaarya is expected to know, I vow I will become a slave of Mr Kaul in

all matters :

>

> Makaranda Tables are oldest tables (1478 AD) based on Suryasiddhanta, older

than the extant manuscripts of Ranganaatha and others. Please give give the

Suryasiddhantic equation of Makaranda Table of equation of centre (Manda Phala)

for any of the five planets from Mercury to Saturn. The first verse of Makaranda

Tablessays it is Suryasiddhantic.

>

> Or, give me the date of Vedaanga Jyotisha which Mr AKK claims to be of 1300

BCE. If Mr AKK proves his date right, even with a margin of eroor of many

centuries, I will become his disciple and slave.

>

> OK ???

>

> I cannot join all forums. There are only 24 hours in a day, and I have

> set foot outside my working place for two months due to overload of

> work.

>

> -VJ

> ============ ========= === ============ ====

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> jyotishi2001 <jyotishi2001@ ...>

> vedic astrology

> Saturday, May 30, 2009 2:44:14 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Mesopotamian influence :

Disowning One's Heritage

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

> Why don't you join HinduCalendar forum and express your differences there

since, as far as I know, posts on that forum are not moderated and nobody has

been banned from that forum, unlike this Vedic-astrology forum, that has banned

Mr. Kaul.

> I know you will call me a stooge of Mr. Kaul, or even Kaul with a fake id, but

that does not matter, since I want you to find out for yourself certain facts

about the real Vedic culture, as I have yet to see anyone, including you, with

such a command over the Vedas, Puranas, Sidhantas etc. etc. and even

phalita-jyotisha shastras, as Mr. Kaul! After all, he was not awarded

NOSTRADAMUS AWARD for correct predictions for nothing!

> Best regards,

> Jyotishi2001

>

> vedic astrology, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ .....>

wrote:

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey has been entrusted by the team of Mr AK Kaul to abuse

> > ancient Siddhaantas as works of Rakshasas (demons) and includes me among

> > demons : " Those Devils(Terrorists, Aatankwadi log) are still around and

> > roaming around,, even on internet- forums now-a-days " .

> >

> > Jyotisha has three skandhas from ancient times : Siddhaanta, Horaa, and

> > Samhitaa, and the team of Mr AKK is hell bent on declaring entire

> > Jyotisha as foreign, basing their fallacious arguments not upon original

> > Indian works but upon biased opinions of Hindu-haters like Wiztel. Mr

> > AKK and Mr Prashant Pandey believe in one part of anti-India propaganda

> > by abusing Jyotisha, esp Siddhanta, while keeps quiet about about

> > another part of this anti-India propaganda which regards all Rishis to

> > be descendants of beef eaters from Eastern Europe (Aryan Invasion

> > Theory).

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey can only abuse me because he and his guru AKK are

> > deficient in arguments. AKK & c do not know any skandha of Jyotisha,

> > Siddhaanta, Horaa or Samhitaa, and therefore they must abuse the grapes

> > as sour.

> >

> > This is an astrological forum which Mr Prashant Pandey is misusing for

> > abusing Indian astrology. Calling me a demon will not give these fellows

> > knowleable about Siddhanta.. Please ask them to solve the problem of

> > Vedanga Jyotisha dating which they are now putting in the category of

> > works influenced by foreigners : show here how it can be put around 1300

> > or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote. Borrowing Western garbage and abusing

> > Indian texts will not make them Hindus. Hence, please show here how

> > Vedanga Jyotisha can be put around 1300 or 1400 BCE as Mr AKK wrote .

> > Instead of abusing, use some brains (if you have any) to solve this

> > problem. Witzel puts Vedanga Jyotisha around 300 BCE, neglecting the

> > astronomical conditions described. Colebrooke & c put it around 1400 BCE,

> > which AKK accepts. But both are wrong. Vedanga Jyotisha is a much

> > earlier work, and any honest discussion will faksify the claim of those

> > who regard any Veda or Vedanga as foreign.

> >

> > -Vinay Jha

> > ============ ======== =====

> > vedic astrology, Astrolearner Brazil

> > <astrolearner_ brazil@> wrote:

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 28/5/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul jyotirved@

> > > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: David Pingree's and Eric Forbes' papers

> > on Mesopotamian influence on Indian astronomy

> > > hinducalendar

> > > Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 7:45 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Abhinavagupta, " Sunthar Visuvalingam "

> > suntharv@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > You can find the full text of David Pingree's paper " The Mesopotamian

> > Origin

> > > of Early Indian Mathematical Astronomy " at

> > >

> > > http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu//full/ 1973JHA.. ...4....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l

> > > <http://articles. adsabs.harvard. edu/full/ 1973JHA.. ....4.....1P/

> > 0000001.000. htm

> > > l>

> > >

> > > and also another relevant paper (in PDF) by Eric G. Forbes,

> > " Mesopotamian

> > > and Greek influences on Ancient Indian Astronomy and on the work of

> > > ÂryabhaTa at

> > >

> > > http://www.new. dli.ernet. in/rawdataupload /upload/insa/

> > INSA_1/20005af8_ 150.pd

> > > f

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > > [Follow-up on my comment (below) on Francesco's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5047

> > >

> > > Rest of this thread at Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5051]

> > >

> > >

†" †" †" †" †" †" âââ€\

šÂ¬ " †" †" †" †" †" †"

> > >

> > > Francesco,

> > >

> > > I've temporarily changed the setting to allow members to upload files,

> > and

> > > will change it back to moderator only after you post the link to the

> > > uploaded file(s).

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Sunthar

> > >

> > >

> > > Francesco Brighenti

> > > Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:07 AM

> > > Abhinavagupta

> > > [Abhinavagupta] Re: Secrets of the Earth

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Indeed, on pp. 72-74 of his paper uploaded at

> > >

> > > http://www.ejvs. laurasianacademy .com/ejvs0703/ ejvs0703article. pdf

> > ,

> > >

> > > Witzel therein supplies a terse yet dense discussion of the wrong

> > (according

> > > to his views) dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE. To this effect, he also

> > cites a

> > > paper by the well-known world espert of jyotihshastra (Sanskrit astral

> > and

> > > mathematical literature), David Pingree, which I have loaded on my PC

> > (D.

> > > Pingree, " The Mesopotamian Origin of Early Indian Mathematical

> > Astronomy, "

> > > _Journal for the History of Astronomy_ 4 [1973], pp. 1-12). I'd like

> > to

> > > upload a copy of this paper on the Files section of the Abhinavagupta

> > List,

> > > but, due to some restriction set up by the Moderator, this is not

> > allowed to

> > > me (and I cannot even attach it to a message to the List because I

> > don't use

> > > an e-mail program, but write my messages directly on the Web instead).

> > If

> > > Sunthar wants, I can e-mail a copy of this paper directly to him as a

> > PDF

> > > attachment, and he can then add it to the List's Files section. In the

> > > meanwhile, you can read Witzel's faithful summary of Pingree's

> > arguments

> > > against the dating of the VJ at 1400 BCE on p. 73 of the paper whose

> > link I

> > > have provided above.

> > >

> > > I'd like to see your detailed counter-arguments against Pingree &

> > Witzel's

> > > conclusions, Koenraad. Same w.r.t. Avtar Krishen Kaul's post archived

> > at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5036 ,

> > >

> > > for, as far as I can see, his " super-high " chronology for the Vedas

> > and the

> > > Mahabharata almost entirely rests on the assumption that the VJ was

> > composed

> > > circa 1400 BCE.

> > >

> > > Kindest regards,

> > >

> > > Francesco

> > >

> > > [Response to Koenraad's post (26 May 2009) at

> > >

> > > http://groups. / group/Abhinavagu pta/message/ 5044]

> > >

> > > ------------ --------

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

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> > >

> > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with

> > India Travel http://in..travel. /

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