Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh Ji, Neelam Ji,

 

Since 12th house is the house of bed pleasures, in my experience (Jyotish and personal), poorly placed Malefic (especially a planet not conducive to such pleasures like Saturn), will cause dissatisfaction in that area from the partner's point of view (12th from the 7th). Since Sa also aspects the 12th, the dissatisfaction is mutual.

 

With great respects to Neelam Ji I have to disagree with the concept of a Neecha planet aspecting the Exalted house producing better results. I have found the Neecha planet's aspect to be quite nasty in all cases. If we do agree with the above fact, shouldn't it also be true that an Uccha planet should be aspecting its neecha rashi and hence produce undesireable effects? Has Neelam Ji seen this in practice?

 

However, Neelam Ji was very perceptive in the analysis that Saturn is much less likely to actually separate but rather "prepares the couple to endure" this period.

 

My own chart is an actual example.. It is a very difficult chart. So here goes. Scorpio Lagna. Neecha Saturn in 6th house. Me and Sun in 7th, Mars and Venus in 8th, Moon in 9th, Rahu 4/Ketu 10, Jupiter in 12th. I just completed the dreaded Venus-Rahu period and started Venus-Jupiter recently.

 

I am sure learned members can construe that Rahu in 4th will give the results of dispositor Neecha Saturn in 6th. If Sreenadh Ji and Neelam Ji (and others are welcome) want to guess/analyze the mayhem created by this period, I can confirm with the true happenings.

 

-Manoj Chandran

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this debilitation!

Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as it is placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.

What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the futility of relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take an apparently nice route.

One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the clue is this:

Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4, d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.

Hope this helpsRegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj ji,

 

In your chart 7th house is in " papkritni-yoga " ,in 6th Saturn in 8th Mars along

with Venus.Where Venus is 7th lord again in 8th house and one more thing Sun in

7th house.These all indicate that you could not get pleasure by your

partner.Rahu in 4th have 5th sight on 8th house and similarly Ketu in 10th house

have 9th sight on 6th house.Jupiter in 12th house have the 7th & 9th sight on 6th

and 8th house respectively which have given some relief.But 7th house badly

effected so some problem about 7th house will remain in your life,

 

Venus-Jupiter Dasa will give you some good results about 7th house.Are you in

teaching line ?

 

It is my simple observations,please let me know how extend I am right or wrong.

 

Thanks,

 

M.S.Bohra

 

 

, Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh Ji, Neelam Ji,

>

> Since 12th house is the house of bed pleasures, in my experience (Jyotish and

personal), poorly placed Malefic (especially a planet not conducive to such

pleasures like Saturn), will cause dissatisfaction in that area from the

partner's point of view (12th from the 7th). Since Sa also aspects the 12th, the

dissatisfaction is mutual.

>

> With great respects to Neelam Ji I have to disagree with the concept of a

Neecha planet aspecting the Exalted house producing better results. I have found

the Neecha planet's aspect to be quite nasty in all cases. If we do agree with

the above fact, shouldn't it also be true that an Uccha planet should be

aspecting its neecha rashi and hence produce undesireable effects? Has Neelam Ji

seen this in practice?

>

> However, Neelam Ji was very perceptive in the analysis that Saturn is much

less likely to actually separate but rather " prepares the couple to endure " this

period.

>

> My own chart is an actual example. It is a very difficult chart. So here goes.

Scorpio Lagna. Neecha Saturn in 6th house. Me and Sun in 7th, Mars and Venus in

8th, Moon in 9th, Rahu 4/Ketu 10, Jupiter in 12th. I just completed the dreaded

Venus-Rahu period and started Venus-Jupiter recently.

>

> I am sure learned members can construe that Rahu in 4th will give the results

of dispositor Neecha Saturn in 6th. If Sreenadh Ji and Neelam Ji (and others are

welcome) want to guess/analyze the mayhem created by this period, I can confirm

with the true happenings.

>

> -Manoj Chandran

>

>  

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Sreenadh <sreesog

>

> Monday, June 1, 2009 11:25:46 PM

> Re: Saturn 3rd house Neecha in 6th for

Scorpio Lagna

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Manoj ji, Neelam ji,

>    You two really confused me with the following statement -

>

> Quote

> //Since 6th house is 12th from the 7th and due to Saturns aspect on the 12th

from the Lagna (as correctly pointed out by you), it also possible for married

people to be physically (or otherwise) separated fom their spouse. This is a

very difficult position for conjugal harmony, unless some exceptional

alleviating factors are present.//

> Just an extended thought on this, if you don't mind. Venus governs both 7H and

12H, Saturn being friendly to these houses for scorpio lagna, may act a little

differently I feel. What is not good for lagna, is good for 7H, isn't it?

Saturn would be like a foolish friend! Misguiding the partner may be! When

Saturn is neecha in 6H, it could even suppress the 6H results of actual

separation and by its aspect on its exalted sign of libra, it could, in a way

support the 12H. Some harder lessons there for the Venusian spouses?

> Unquote

>   * Manoj ji: Saturn in 6th (i..e. 12th from 7th) is supposed to cause harm to

7th - but is it that as separation from husband?

>    * Neelam ji: A planet in debilitation will have to certainly aspect its

house of exaltation: But does that mean that it will give benefic results

related to the house of exaltation? Satun in 6th in debilitation aspecting 12th

from lagna (saturn's house of exaltation) is supposed to suppresss actual

seperation (between husband and wife)?

>   I am not convinced by both these arguments, and does not feel like agreeing

with both the above points.  Dear all, Can any one come with a real chart and

explain the reality to me based on his actual experience?

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology@ .. com, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Manoj ji,

> >

> > Dear Manoj ji,

> >

> > Glad that your attention drifted and it's a pleasure to share this platform

> > with the learned and knowledgeable. We welcome you on board, please share

> > freely whether we agree or disagree, its learning both ways.

> >

> > //Since 6th house is 12th from the 7th and due to Saturns aspect on the 12th

> > from the Lagna (as correctly pointed out by you), it also possible for

> > married people to be physically (or otherwise) separated fom their spouse.

> > This is a very difficult position for conjugal harmony, unless some

> > exceptional alleviating factors are present.//

> >

> > Just an extended thought on this, if you don't mind. Venus governs both 7H

> > and 12H, Saturn being friendly to these houses for scorpio lagna, may act a

> > little differently I feel. What is not good for lagna, is good for 7H, isn't

> > it? Saturn would be like a foolish friend! Misguiding the partner may be!

> > When Saturn is neecha in 6H, it could even suppress the 6H results of actual

> > separation and by its aspect on its exalted sign of libra, it could, in a

> > way support the 12H. Some harder lessons there for the Venusian spouses?

> >

> > Thanks for sharing, I agree with you.

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, Thanks for the informative mail. I liked the presentation but do not agree to some of the points presented. For example -//> What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? ..........So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take > an apparently nice route.// Debilitated Saturn in 6th will make the native spiritual?!!! I thought that will make him criminal! (provided the dasa of Saturn comes). Of course I am making this statement while remembering that respected Manoj Chandran ji is running Saturn dasa (Saturn debilitated in 6th for Scorpio lagna). My opinion is that - having an idea for whom we predict should not distort our derivations. What are the results to be predicted for Saturn in 6th in Aries in debilitation for Scorpio lagna? What the classics say? Dear Neelam ji, can you collect the reference and quote? Note: I have already expressed my opinion on 'debilitated planet aspecting exaltation argument - whether in bhava or bahavat bhava'; so don't want to take it up again.Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,> > In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to> illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you> get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this> debilitation!> Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn> by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as> it is placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on> libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn> would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H> and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.> > What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt> fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not> only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive> the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse> disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if> venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every> result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the> futility of relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his> spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram> straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take> an apparently nice route.> > One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most> important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus> test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the> clue is this:> > Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4,> d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations> of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly> tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.> > Hope this helps> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Debilated Saturn will aspect Libra in 12th house. The debilitation in 6th house will lead to negation in its results in terms of debts, servants and enemies.

Please inform a little bit about the maternal uncle - if any.

12th house results will get magnified but it will be at cost of 6th and the two houses owned by Saturn.Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

Sreenadh <sreesog Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna Date: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009, 3:42 PM

 

 

Dear Neelam ji, Thanks for the informative mail. I liked the presentation but do not agree to some of the points presented. For example -//> What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? ..........So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take > an apparently nice route.// Debilitated Saturn in 6th will make the native spiritual?!! ! I thought that will make him criminal! (provided the dasa of Saturn comes). Of course I am making this statement while remembering that respected Manoj Chandran ji is running Saturn dasa (Saturn debilitated in 6th for Scorpio lagna). My opinion is that - having an idea for whom we predict should not distort our derivations. What are the results to be predicted for Saturn in 6th in Aries in debilitation for

Scorpio lagna? What the classics say? Dear Neelam ji, can you collect the reference and quote? Note: I have already expressed my opinion on 'debilitated planet aspecting exaltation argument - whether in bhava or bahavat bhava'; so don't want to take it up again.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,> > In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to> illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you> get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this> debilitation!> Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn> by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as> it is placed in inimical sign, but that is

good. By its friendly aspect on> libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn> would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H> and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.> > What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt> fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not> only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive> the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse> disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if> venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every> result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the> futility of relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his> spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by

going to an ashram> straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take> an apparently nice route.> > One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most> important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus> test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the> clue is this:> > Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4,> d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45.. I need not state the implications and derivations> of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly> tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.> > Hope this helps> > Regards> Neelam>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

I understand that Shani is the king when it comes to spirituality. You are 100% about the effect of Saturn in my life. Lord Saturn has pummelled me into spiritual submission in the most incredible ways. He has hit me where it hurts the most, ripped out the carpet from under my feet (so to speak), forced me to re-evaluate my life completely and effectively come to the conclusion about the futility of materialistic cravings. However I always had such inclinations since my childhood, but the unabated recent suffering has altered the course of my evolution suddenly and violently, but firmly.

 

That is the other dilemma I have as to when to call a planet "good" or "bad". Invariably "materially" bad becomes "spiritually good" since it takes the soul towards moksha.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 1:10:37 AMRe: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this debilitation!

 

Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as it is placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the futility of

relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take an apparently nice route.One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the clue is this:Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4, d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.

 

Hope this helps

Regards

Neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr MS Bohra,

 

You are correct in your fundamental observations so far. However I am not in teaching line (atleast not yet ). I am an Engineer and I design computer chips.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

msbohra62 <msbohra62 Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 1:18:07 AM Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Manoj ji,In your chart 7th house is in "papkritni-yoga" ,in 6th Saturn in 8th Mars along with Venus.Where Venus is 7th lord again in 8th house and one more thing Sun in 7th house.These all indicate that you could not get pleasure by your partner.Rahu in 4th have 5th sight on 8th house and similarly Ketu in 10th house have 9th sight on 6th house.Jupiter in 12th house have the 7th & 9th sight on 6th and 8th house respectively which have given some relief.But 7th house badly effected so some problem about 7th house will remain in your life,Venus-Jupiter Dasa will give you some good results about 7th house.Are you in teaching line ?It is my simple observations, please let me know how extend I am right or wrong.Thanks,M.S.Bohraancient_indian_

astrology, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh Ji, Neelam Ji,> > Since 12th house is the house of bed pleasures, in my experience (Jyotish and personal), poorly placed Malefic (especially a planet not conducive to such pleasures like Saturn), will cause dissatisfaction in that area from the partner's point of view (12th from the 7th). Since Sa also aspects the 12th, the dissatisfaction is mutual.> > With great respects to Neelam Ji I have to disagree with the concept of a Neecha planet aspecting the Exalted house producing better results. I have found the Neecha planet's aspect to be quite nasty in all cases. If we do agree with the above fact, shouldn't it also be true that an Uccha planet should be aspecting its neecha rashi and hence produce undesireable effects? Has Neelam Ji seen this in practice?> > However, Neelam Ji was very perceptive in

the analysis that Saturn is much less likely to actually separate but rather "prepares the couple to endure" this period.> > My own chart is an actual example. It is a very difficult chart. So here goes. Scorpio Lagna. Neecha Saturn in 6th house. Me and Sun in 7th, Mars and Venus in 8th, Moon in 9th, Rahu 4/Ketu 10, Jupiter in 12th. I just completed the dreaded Venus-Rahu period and started Venus-Jupiter recently.> > I am sure learned members can construe that Rahu in 4th will give the results of dispositor Neecha Saturn in 6th. If Sreenadh Ji and Neelam Ji (and others are welcome) want to guess/analyze the mayhem created by this period, I can confirm with the true happenings.> > -Manoj Chandran> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Sreenadh <sreesog >> ancient_indian_ astrology> Monday, June 1, 2009 11:25:46 PM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Saturn 3rd house Neecha in 6th for Scorpio Lagna> > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, Neelam ji,> You two really confused me with the following statement -> > Quote> //Since 6th house is 12th from the 7th and due to Saturns aspect on the 12th from the Lagna (as correctly pointed out by you), it also possible for married people to be physically (or otherwise) separated fom their spouse. This is a very difficult position for conjugal harmony, unless some exceptional alleviating factors are present.//> Just an extended thought on this, if you don't mind. Venus governs both 7H and 12H, Saturn being friendly to these houses for scorpio lagna, may act a

little differently I feel. What is not good for lagna, is good for 7H, isn't it? Saturn would be like a foolish friend! Misguiding the partner may be! When Saturn is neecha in 6H, it could even suppress the 6H results of actual separation and by its aspect on its exalted sign of libra, it could, in a way support the 12H. Some harder lessons there for the Venusian spouses?> Unquote> * Manoj ji: Saturn in 6th (i..e. 12th from 7th) is supposed to cause harm to 7th - but is it that as separation from husband?> * Neelam ji: A planet in debilitation will have to certainly aspect its house of exaltation: But does that mean that it will give benefic results related to the house of exaltation? Satun in 6th in debilitation aspecting 12th from lagna (saturn's house of exaltation) is supposed to suppresss actual seperation (between husband and wife)?> I am not convinced by both these arguments, and does

not feel like agreeing with both the above points. Dear all, Can any one come with a real chart and explain the reality to me based on his actual experience?> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . . com, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Manoj ji,> >> > Dear Manoj ji,> >> > Glad that your attention drifted and it's a pleasure to share this platform> > with the learned and knowledgeable. We welcome you on board, please share> > freely whether we agree or disagree, its learning both ways.> >> > //Since 6th house is 12th from the 7th and due to Saturns aspect on the 12th> > from the Lagna (as correctly pointed out by you), it also possible for> > married people to be physically (or otherwise) separated fom their spouse.> > This is a

very difficult position for conjugal harmony, unless some> > exceptional alleviating factors are present.//> >> > Just an extended thought on this, if you don't mind. Venus governs both 7H> > and 12H, Saturn being friendly to these houses for scorpio lagna, may act a> > little differently I feel. What is not good for lagna, is good for 7H, isn't> > it? Saturn would be like a foolish friend! Misguiding the partner may be!> > When Saturn is neecha in 6H, it could even suppress the 6H results of actual> > separation and by its aspect on its exalted sign of libra, it could, in a> > way support the 12H. Some harder lessons there for the Venusian spouses?> >> > Thanks for sharing, I agree with you.> >> > Regards> > Neelam> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh Ji,

 

I agree 100% that while learning and analyzing one should not be influenced by familiarity. But I want to confirm if you have the correct calculation because I am running Venus Dasha and not Saturn Dasha.And unfortunately for me I am not clever enough to be a criminal. As a matter of fact I am very frequently "taken for a ride" by others to exploit my kindness and take advantage of it. I am very averse to confrontation and hence allow some times such unkind people to take advantage of me.

 

Just to let you know that philosophically I am non-judgemental and take a morally neutral stance when it comes to Jyotish. After all, one has to wash all the inherent Vasanas and cleanse it in the ocean of samsara, one time or the other.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 3:12:08 AM Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Neelam ji, Thanks for the informative mail. I liked the presentation but do not agree to some of the points presented. For example -//> What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? ...........So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take > an apparently nice route.// Debilitated Saturn in 6th will make the native spiritual?!! ! I thought that will make him criminal! (provided the dasa of Saturn comes). Of course I am making this statement while remembering that respected Manoj Chandran ji is running Saturn dasa (Saturn debilitated in 6th for Scorpio lagna). My opinion is that - having an idea for whom we predict should not distort our derivations. What are the results to be predicted for Saturn in 6th in Aries in debilitation for

Scorpio lagna? What the classics say? Dear Neelam ji, can you collect the reference and quote? Note: I have already expressed my opinion on 'debilitated planet aspecting exaltation argument - whether in bhava or bahavat bhava'; so don't want to take it up again.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,> > In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to> illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you> get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this> debilitation!> Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn> by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as> it is placed in inimical sign, but that is

good. By its friendly aspect on> libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn> would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H> and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.> > What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt> fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not> only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive> the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse> disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if> venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every> result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the> futility of relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his> spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by

going to an ashram> straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take> an apparently nice route.> > One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most> important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus> test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the> clue is this:> > Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4,> d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45.. I need not state the implications and derivations> of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly> tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.> > Hope this helps> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chirnjiv Ji,

 

Interesting. I have no debts (except for mortgage ofcourse) (except for a short period of two years where I had to repay student loans), have not had servants here in the US, genreally speaking I dont have any enemies since I get along well with most people.

 

Maternal uncles' lives are all miserable though. Relationship with my brother's family is also strained (but not terrible).

 

12th house results attributed to Saturn (like spirituality) has indeed been magnified tremendously.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 3:33:40 AMRe: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

 

 

 

 

Debilated Saturn will aspect Libra in 12th house. The debilitation in 6th house will lead to negation in its results in terms of debts, servants and enemies.

Please inform a little bit about the maternal uncle - if any.

12th house results will get magnified but it will be at cost of 6th and the two houses owned by Saturn.Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote:

Sreenadh <sreesog >[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagnaancient_indian_ astrologyTuesday, 2 June, 2009, 3:42 PM

 

 

Dear Neelam ji, Thanks for the informative mail. I liked the presentation but do not agree to some of the points presented. For example -//> What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? ..........So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take > an apparently nice route.// Debilitated Saturn in 6th will make the native spiritual?!! ! I thought that will make him criminal! (provided the dasa of Saturn comes). Of course I am making this statement while remembering that respected Manoj Chandran ji is running Saturn dasa (Saturn debilitated in 6th for Scorpio lagna). My opinion is that - having an idea for whom we predict should not distort our derivations. What are the results to be predicted for Saturn in 6th in Aries in debilitation for

Scorpio lagna? What the classics say? Dear Neelam ji, can you collect the reference and quote? Note: I have already expressed my opinion on 'debilitated planet aspecting exaltation argument - whether in bhava or bahavat bhava'; so don't want to take it up again.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,> > In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to> illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you> get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this> debilitation!> Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn> by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as> it is placed in inimical sign, but that is

good. By its friendly aspect on> libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn> would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H> and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.> > What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt> fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not> only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive> the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse> disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if> venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every> result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the> futility of relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his> spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by

going to an ashram> straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take> an apparently nice route.> > One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most> important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus> test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the> clue is this:> > Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4,> d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45... I need not state the implications and derivations> of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly> tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.> > Hope this helps> > Regards> Neelam>

 

Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel Click here!

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji,I agree with Manoj about his observations on Shani being the king when it comes to spirituality.I have exalted shani as lord of 10th and 11th. I met guru when I was 5 years in to my shani mahadasa which I am still running. Yes, shani has made me work hard, I have had to sacrifice a lot in life, ( may be because shani is combust Being accompanied by sun) but it has done wonders to me in my spiritual quest. Surprisingly I have made more advances in my spiritual and internal growth since my sade sati started in 2007 july. Shani deb or exalted appears to give same results. FInancially we are comfortable ( cant say RICH) but then I do not expect a lot of luxury in life.regards,Anita--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:Manoj Chandran <chandran_manojRe: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio LagnaDate: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009, 10:55 AM

 

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

I understand that Shani is the king when it comes to spirituality. You are 100% about the effect of Saturn in my life. Lord Saturn has pummelled me into spiritual submission in the most incredible ways. He has hit me where it hurts the most, ripped out the carpet from under my feet (so to speak), forced me to re-evaluate my life completely and effectively come to the conclusion about the futility of materialistic cravings. However I always had such inclinations since my childhood, but the unabated recent suffering has altered the course of my evolution suddenly and violently, but firmly.

 

That is the other dilemma I have as to when to call a planet "good" or "bad". Invariably "materially" bad becomes "spiritually good" since it takes the soul towards moksha.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>ancient_indian_ astrologyTuesday, June 2, 2009 1:10:37 AMRe: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this debilitation!

 

Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as it is placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the futility of

relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take an apparently nice route.One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the clue is this:Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4, d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.

 

Hope this helps

Regards

Neelam

 

Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel Click here!

[Guest guest]

Dear Anita Ji,

 

Take it from experience that one would rather have Exalted Saturn teaching

spirituality rather than Deb Saturn. The difference is exalted Saturn will nudge

you and guide you. Deb Saturn cuts you arms and legs off and throws you into the

spiritual realm, kicking and screaming. !!!

 

I want to give every one some more time to analyse and then I will detail the

event that was precipated by Rahu that changed my life over night.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Anita R <ash.rsh55

 

Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:11:24 AM

Re: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Neelamji,

I agree with Manoj about his observations on Shani being the king when it comes

to spirituality.

I have exalted shani as lord of 10th and 11th. I met guru when I was 5 years in

to my shani mahadasa which I am still running. Yes, shani has made me work hard,

I have had to sacrifice a lot in life, ( may be because shani is combust Being

accompanied by sun) but it has done wonders to me in my spiritual quest.

Surprisingly I have made more advances in my spiritual and internal growth since

my sade sati started in 2007 july. Shani deb or exalted appears to give same

results. FInancially we are comfortable ( cant say RICH) but then I do not

expect a lot of luxury in life.

regards,

Anita

 

--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:

 

 

Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ >

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

ancient_indian_ astrology@ . .com

Tuesday, 2 June, 2009, 10:55 AM

 

 

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

I understand that Shani is the king when it comes to spirituality. You are 100%

about the effect of Saturn in my life. Lord Saturn has pummelled me into

spiritual submission in the most incredible ways. He has hit me where it hurts

the most, ripped out the carpet from under my feet (so to speak), forced me to

re-evaluate my life completely and effectively come to the conclusion about the

futility of materialistic cravings. However I always had such inclinations since

my childhood, but the unabated recent suffering has altered the course of my

evolution suddenly and violently, but firmly.

 

That is the other dilemma I have as to when to call a planet " good " or " bad " .

Invariably " materially " bad becomes " spiritually good " since it takes the soul

towards moksha.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

________________________________

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>

ancient_indian_ astrology

Tuesday, June 2, 2009 1:10:37 AM

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,

 

In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to

illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you get

everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this debilitation!

 

Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn by

virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as it is

placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on libra, it

should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn would support

will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H and 12L lord. This

has to be balanced.

 

What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt fair

means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not only bed

pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive the native

towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse disinterested in conjugal

bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if venus is also afflicted. That

will make the native develop a Virakti. Every result has to have a cause. The

spouse would make the native realise the futility of relationships and marriage

and this will be conducive to his spiritual growth. So instead of taking

sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this

would not take an apparently nice route.

 

One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most important

to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus test being

provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the clue is this:

 

Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4, d-9,

d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations of this

as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly tells us where

a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Regards

Neelam

 

________________________________

Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel

Click here!

[Guest guest]

Sani is like blacksmith - heat - forge - heat forge etc.

In my experience it is the anticipation ( of yet another bout of heating & forging ) which is unnerving.

The trial by fire if borne with sincerity and ethics does purify you.

I think that is spiritualism.Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:

Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj Re: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna Date: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009, 7:50 PM

 

 

Dear Anita Ji,Take it from experience that one would rather have Exalted Saturn teaching spirituality rather than Deb Saturn. The difference is exalted Saturn will nudge you and guide you. Deb Saturn cuts you arms and legs off and throws you into the spiritual realm, kicking and screaming. !!!I want to give every one some more time to analyse and then I will detail the event that was precipated by Rahu that changed my life over night.-Manoj____________ _________ _________ __Anita R <ash.rsh55 >ancient_indian_ astrologyTuesday,

June 2, 2009 5:11:24 AMRe: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb..Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio LagnaDear Neelamji,I agree with Manoj about his observations on Shani being the king when it comes to spirituality.I have exalted shani as lord of 10th and 11th. I met guru when I was 5 years in to my shani mahadasa which I am still running. Yes, shani has made me work hard, I have had to sacrifice a lot in life, ( may be because shani is combust Being accompanied by sun) but it has done wonders to me in my spiritual quest. Surprisingly I have made more advances in my spiritual and internal growth since my sade sati started in 2007 july. Shani deb or exalted appears to give same results. FInancially we are comfortable ( cant say RICH) but then I do not expect a lot of luxury in life.regards,Anita--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@

>Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagnaancient_indian_ astrology@ . .comTuesday, 2 June, 2009, 10:55 AMDear Neelam Ji,I understand that Shani is the king when it comes to spirituality. You are 100% about the effect of Saturn in my life. Lord Saturn has pummelled me into spiritual submission in the most incredible ways. He has hit me where it hurts the most, ripped out the carpet from under my feet (so to speak), forced me to re-evaluate my life completely and effectively come to the conclusion about the futility of materialistic cravings. However I always had such inclinations since my childhood, but the unabated recent suffering has altered the course of my evolution suddenly and violently, but firmly.That is the other dilemma I have as to when to call a planet "good" or "bad". Invariably "materially" bad becomes "spiritually good" since it takes

the soul towards moksha.-Manoj____________ _________ _________ __neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>ancient_indian_ astrologyTuesday, June 2, 2009 1:10:37 AMRe: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio LagnaDear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you get everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this debilitation! Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn by virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as it is placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on libra, it should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn would support will be as per its karakatwas and what is

promised by the 12H and 12L lord. This has to be balanced.What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt fair means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not only bed pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive the native towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse disinterested in conjugal bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if venus is also afflicted. That will make the native develop a Virakti. Every result has to have a cause. The spouse would make the native realise the futility of relationships and marriage and this will be conducive to his spiritual growth. So instead of taking sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this would not take an apparently nice route.One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most important to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas,

the litmus test being provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the clue is this:Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4, d-9, d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations of this as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly tells us where a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.Hope this helpsRegardsNeelam ____________ _________ _________ __Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel Click here!

Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel Click here!

[Guest guest]

Dear Chiranjiv Ji,

 

I agree with you except that when it involves your own self/health it is not a

big deal. In this case it is some one very dear to me and it is not just

anticipation but I live through it day and night, 24/7. In my case Shani does

not leave any time for forging, he has just turned the heat on and left it on.

 

But that is destiny and the path. Ofcourse the spiritual benifits are plenti

fold. He has made me dive deep into astrology and very deep into meditation. He

as blessed me with blessings from Great Gurus in the dream states. He has even

awakened my Kundalini because of the Kriya Yoga practices. Like you said Heat

-Forge go hand in hand. Not to speak of the fact that Sade Sati has been going

on as well, but will be done by September. Ofcourse Lord Shani is only giving me

what I deserve. He is only the messenger and ultimately I have created this

destiny.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

________________________________

chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv

 

Tuesday, June 2, 2009 7:35:40 AM

Re: Re: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

 

 

 

Sani is like blacksmith  - heat - forge - heat forge etc.

In my experience it is the anticipation ( of yet another bout of heating &

forging ) which is unnerving.

The trial by fire if borne with sincerity and ethics does purify you.

I think that is spiritualism.

 

Chiranjiv Mehta

 

 

--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:

 

 

Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ >

[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

ancient_indian_ astrology

Tuesday, 2 June, 2009, 7:50 PM

 

 

Dear Anita Ji,

 

Take it from experience that one would rather have Exalted Saturn teaching

spirituality rather than Deb Saturn. The difference is exalted Saturn will nudge

you and guide you. Deb Saturn cuts you arms and legs off and throws you into the

spiritual realm, kicking and screaming. !!!

 

I want to give every one some more time to analyse and then I will detail the

event that was precipated by Rahu that changed my life over night.

 

-Manoj

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Anita R <ash.rsh55 >

ancient_indian_ astrology

Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:11:24 AM

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb..Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Neelamji,

I agree with Manoj about his observations on Shani being the king when it comes

to spirituality.

I have exalted shani as lord of 10th and 11th. I met guru when I was 5 years in

to my shani mahadasa which I am still running. Yes, shani has made me work hard,

I have had to sacrifice a lot in life, ( may be because shani is combust Being

accompanied by sun) but it has done wonders to me in my spiritual quest.

Surprisingly I have made more advances in my spiritual and internal growth since

my sade sati started in 2007 july. Shani deb or exalted appears to give same

results. FInancially we are comfortable ( cant say RICH) but then I do not

expect a lot of luxury in life.

regards,

Anita

 

--- On Tue, 2/6/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:

 

Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ >

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

ancient_indian_ astrology@ . .com

Tuesday, 2 June, 2009, 10:55 AM

 

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

I understand that Shani is the king when it comes to spirituality. You are 100%

about the effect of Saturn in my life. Lord Saturn has pummelled me into

spiritual submission in the most incredible ways. He has hit me where it hurts

the most, ripped out the carpet from under my feet (so to speak), forced me to

re-evaluate my life completely and effectively come to the conclusion about the

futility of materialistic cravings. However I always had such inclinations since

my childhood, but the unabated recent suffering has altered the course of my

evolution suddenly and violently, but firmly.

 

That is the other dilemma I have as to when to call a planet " good " or " bad " .

Invariably " materially " bad becomes " spiritually good " since it takes the soul

towards moksha.

 

-Manoj

 

____________ _________ _________ __

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>

ancient_indian_ astrology

Tuesday, June 2, 2009 1:10:37 AM

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Manoj ji, Sreenadh ji, and all,

 

In practice, it is seen that debilitation is not denial. And some go far to

illustrate that more debilitated planets actually cause rajyoga, means you get

everything! How one gets it remains to be seen. No small deal this debilitation!

 

Let us get to the basics and forget about debilitation for a while. Saturn by

virtue of its placement in aries, would spoil the significations of 6H as it is

placed in inimical sign, but that is good. By its friendly aspect on libra, it

should support 12H activities. Now the activities which Saturn would support

will be as per its karakatwas and what is promised by the 12H and 12L lord. This

has to be balanced.

 

What would happen when this Saturn is debilitated? The planet may not adopt fair

means to act, but it will give results of its karakatwas. 12H is not only bed

pleasures. Saturn is not karak of bed pleasures. Saturn would drive the native

towards virakti, renunciation. It may make the spouse disinterested in conjugal

bliss, or pervert, have extramarital affairs if venus is also afflicted. That

will make the native develop a Virakti. Every result has to have a cause. The

spouse would make the native realise the futility of relationships and marriage

and this will be conducive to his spiritual growth. So instead of taking

sanyaasa by going to an ashram straight, as perhaps an exalted saturn will, this

would not take an apparently nice route.

 

One cannot forget the actual purpose of Saturn in a chart. It is most important

to balance the dignity of a planet and its Karkatwas, the litmus test being

provided by its position in vargas. If one cares to check, the clue is this:

 

Whenever Saturn is in deep debilitation in a chart, it is exalted in d-4, d-9,

d-10, d-27, and d-45. I need not state the implications and derivations of this

as anything I might say, it will remain understated. This exactly tells us where

a debilitated Saturn is taking the soul.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

Neelam

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel

Click here!

 

 

 

________________________________

Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel

Click here!

[Guest guest]

Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre where one

is taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operation

table with all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeons

knife.

 

Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feels when

he goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopy done

to detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or his

prostate.

 

Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and the

realisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.

 

Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hot and

scorching like the Sun.

 

Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out in

droplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming out

from the freeze.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Dear

Manoj ji,Good and bad are only social constructs of which

planets do not have any know-how. Except for health and longevity perhaps malefic

and benefic have no other relevance in today’s materialistic life. (many may

not agree).

There seems to be so much suffering around

that adversity, amazingly, seems to be the way of life. To rise above it

remains the only choice with us. We have to choose to learn, grow and mature

through adverse circumstances. Trusting God and that we are meant to rise above

the adversity and allowing the suffering to make us humble enough to dissolve our

ego is our job at hand. Focus on what is eternal becomes a reality in life and

material things then have no bearing on who we become on the inside.

You are running venus mahadasha, which has

major influence of saturn which aspects LL, dashanath venus and Jupiter and himself

is in venus star. As I said earlier, Saturn is meant to give you harder lessons

through venus. Venus dasha is meant to be stressful from day one. Venus mars

aspected by shani, rahu and Jupiter is obviously a formidable placement.  

Venus-Rahu could’ve been merciless and brought

you face-to-face with some altered reality of your life. I think it could a serious

accident involving the family, or diagnosis of some chronic disease with wife which gives her some

kind of handicap. With Saturn involved, is it some degenerative disorder. I also see the child suffering the trauma. I wish things are not too bad Manoj ji.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Bhaskar-ji,

This is a beautiful explanation of Saturn and its effect. Loved it!

Regards

Souvik

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

>

> Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre where one

> is taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operation

> table with all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeons

> knife.

>

> Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feels when

> he goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopy done

> to detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or his

> prostate.

>

> Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and the

> realisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.

>

> Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hot and

> scorching like the Sun.

>

> Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out in

> droplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming out

> from the freeze.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji,Spine-chilling but *yours truly* signed by Saturn!Thank you for painting the true picture which has to be endured when life so wills.Really well expressed!

RegardsNeelam2009/6/2 Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre where one

is taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operation

table with all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeons

knife.

 

Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feels when

he goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopy done

to detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or his

prostate.

 

Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and the

realisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.

 

Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hot and

scorching like the Sun.

 

Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out in

droplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming out

from the freeze.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

Another brilliant analysis. I wish I could sit down with you, Sreenadh Ji, Bhaskar Ji and others personally, but thanks for the internet !!!

 

In my case it was this. We had struggled for years to have a child. Finally on Jan 9, 2004 we were blessed with a son. An aboslutely beautiful angel of a child. He was brilliant met all his milestones early, by 12 months he was walking and talking. By 14 months he knew all the alphabets and all the numbers. He had 25 words ..... and the Rahu (powered by his dispositor Shani) struck a lethal blow. Our dear child stopped speaking, started flapping hands, stopped sleeping, started screaming for several hours a day. From that day onwards, till today Neelam Ji, I only sleep 3-4 hrs, so I can put my son to sleep when he wakes up. He undergoes numerous therapies and most of our income is spent on therapies (but I dont care much for money any way).

 

Autism had arrived and snatched our darling son away in the middle of the night. Till that point I had been very very religious, doing my sandhya's every day, Gayathri without missing it. Ofcourse with 9th lord in 9th house you would expect that. But this event changed every thing. Rahu had ripped my faith in to pieces. However I recovered quickly but I am not religious any more but more spiritual. Times spending with puja has been replaced by deep meditation (when possible). Money spent on Temples are now going to disabled children in my neighbhourhood. Superficial good ness has been replaced by a deeper sense of goodness.

 

My child still does not speak. For a few months I heard him say dad and papa and appa. I am not sure I will hear that again. I will cherish that memory for ever. But he is a loveable child and I am grateful to have the opportunity to serve him in this life. I know life is not a bed of roses for me, but I think I am spiritually ready for the fight now. On the plus side I have had a spiritual awakening, clairvoyant dreams and other experiences too precious to be shared easily.

 

By the way I think a Vargottam Jupiter in the 12th aspecting Rahu, Saturn and Venus is keeping every thing together through it karakatattwa (Child and Guru).

 

Thanks for the analysis and thoughts.

 

Regards

-Manoj

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 8:39:42 AMRe: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

Dear Manoj ji,

Good and bad are only social constructs of which planets do not have any know-how. Except for health and longevity perhaps malefic and benefic have no other relevance in today’s materialistic life. (many may not agree).

There seems to be so much suffering around that adversity, amazingly, seems to be the way of life. To rise above it remains the only choice with us. We have to choose to learn, grow and mature through adverse circumstances. Trusting God and that we are meant to rise above the adversity and allowing the suffering to make us humble enough to dissolve our ego is our job at hand. Focus on what is eternal becomes a reality in life and material things then have no bearing on who we become on the inside..

You are running venus mahadasha, which has major influence of saturn which aspects LL, dashanath venus and Jupiter and himself is in venus star. As I said earlier, Saturn is meant to give you harder lessons through venus. Venus dasha is meant to be stressful from day one. Venus mars aspected by shani, rahu and Jupiter is obviously a formidable placement.

Venus-Rahu could’ve been merciless and brought you face-to-face with some altered reality of your life. I think it could a serious accident involving the family, or diagnosis of some chronic disease with wife which gives her some kind of handicap. With Saturn involved, is it some degenerative disorder. I also see the child suffering the trauma. I wish things are not too bad Manoj ji.

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar Ji,

 

Lovely analogy. I am still shivering from the cold

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 8:06:57 AM Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre where oneis taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operationtable with all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeonsknife.Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feels whenhe goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopy doneto detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or hisprostate.Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and therealisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hot andscorching like the Sun.Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out indroplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming outfrom the

freeze.regards,Bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj ji,I could only say that hesitatingly, keeping my fingers crossed. I didn't have the courage to talk straight about a serious problem with your child. Rahu antar does show significant problem with the child.

I am really sorry to hear that. But you are brave and Saturn has already given you the strength and endurance to face this challenge. The angel has come to you for a larger purpose in your life. I pray for peace and happiness in your life.

Best WishesNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji and others,

 

Myself and most of us have been through these chilling cold fears of the

Life . Why is this coldness and the knife of the Surgeon so

interrelated. Why does the knife meet its exaltation in the hand of the

Surgeon ? Why does the human being meet his nemesis in the operation

theatre where he realises the true meaning of Fear and not all these

non-descript problems we read all time around in these Jyotish Forums?

Its because Mars receives Exaltation in the 10th House Capricorn Lorded

by Saturn. The Knife is the weapon of Punishment for the deeds which

that man have must done by beating his poor wife all through his Life

thinking that by marrying her, he has purchased her. And for so many

other such ills wrought through that man who was unsuspecting when his

body was healthy and not aware, what fate he could meet at the hands of

Saturn when it got the power to strike, for the misdeeds he had

committed.

 

I see so many people relating their problems. But I know for sure that

they are not problems but challenges of Life, but actual problem is

helplessness against a diseased body and being " Dependent " on external

resources to Live.

 

Which is why Jupiter allows all the treasures to man. " Enjoy,drink and

make merry, I am giving you all, Let me see how you make use of my

bounties " And man forgets that this period of enjoyment would soon be

ending as everything is temporary, and when Saturn comes in Line of the

Dasha to wield his influence, all the extra curriculm merry making which

the man would have indulged in the Dasha of Jupiter, would now be

brought to nought, with the dawn of the Saturn Dasha who would take its

toll, for all boundaries trespassed and overtreaded.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

> Spine-chilling but *yours truly* signed by Saturn!

> Thank you for painting the true picture which has to be endured when

life so

> wills.

> Really well expressed!

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> 2009/6/2 Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre where

one

> > is taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operation

> > table with all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeons

> > knife.

> >

> > Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feels

when

> > he goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopy

done

> > to detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or his

> > prostate.

> >

> > Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and the

> > realisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.

> >

> > Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hot

and

> > scorching like the Sun.

> >

> > Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out

in

> > droplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming

out

> > from the freeze.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj ji and all,

 

Just like Saturn has a connection with Mars in form of the Surgeons

knife , where Mars gets Exalted in Saturn House., in Same way The SUN

too has connection with Mars the planet of aggression. The Sun too gets

Exalted in the house of Mars.

 

The Fire of the Sun too has its own lessons for the mortal to be learnt.

 

The Fire of the Burning Ghats-Smashan Ghat where a person lays to burn a

body of his own beloved whom he had always been together with. The

Father who brought the son to this world, the son now shows him the way

and leads him to the other world. What a Irony, but a reality which all

of us have to face.

 

The Sun represents the Fire of the belly, which makes a man work for his

next quota of food. Now see again the connection of Mars here. Without

the Fire and aggression of work, one will never be able to achieve the

exaltation levels it reaches in the 10th house of Karma and the sign

Capricorn. Unless the Karma is to the optimum levels one cannot reach

anywhere in his duties, filiall or otherwise.

 

The Sun represents the Fire of anger which can be destructive or also

all pervading and saintly. On controlling this man can remove one of the

four hurdles to reach his Creator.

 

The Sun represents the Fire of the Lust. Unless one controls this he

cannot move ahead. Here too it is one of the hurdles to be overcome as

" Kama " . This same Fire can destroy one, and when controlled can become

the " Ojas " sparkling in a Yogi.

 

The Sun represents the Fire of teh Yagna or Homa. This is the easier way

to Feed,pamper and reach the Gods through the blessings as offerings

made to the " Agnideva " .

 

The Fire of the burning wood in the chulha which allows food to be

cooked, and the Fire of the burning Forest which destroys the Uncooked

Food.

 

The Sun manifests in form of Agni tattwa and creates Pitta when in

excess, but if in proper proportions it is the cause of splendour in any

man to attract the world.

 

Thpogh the Sun and Saturn are known to be inimical towards each other,

and 6 days apart in a week, but they are also complementary and together

if one sees it at the end of the week. The son may be inimical, but the

Father is never. The son even if inimical still has some feelings for

the Father and always remains behind him (Sunday comes first and

Saturday follows). The father though knowing that the son may have

turned truant, still is always near him. (Saturday-Sunday)

 

There is so much about the Sun and Saturn, that a mere Life time would

be too less to know or talk about the same.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar Ji,

>

> Lovely analogy. I am still shivering from the cold

>

> -Manoj

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Tuesday, June 2, 2009 8:06:57 AM

> Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio

Lagna

Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre where

one

> is taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operation

> table with all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeons

> knife.

>

> Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feels

when

> he goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopy

done

> to detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or his

> prostate.

>

> Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and the

> realisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.

>

> Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hot

and

> scorching like the Sun.

>

> Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out in

> droplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming out

> from the freeze.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

Thanks for your kind wishes and words.

 

Astrologically speaking how did you zero in on the child. Is it from the D-7? Did Rahu in Lagna and Venus in 8th in D-7 clue you in?

Please ellucidate if there is some other technique you used.

 

I also know additionally in the Rashi Jupiter lord of 5th gone 8 away to the 12th and hammerred by Malefics is pretty bad. But Saptamsha must be the clincher, correct? I cannot imagine that all the people who were born with that Rashi chart (which must be quite a few) will have such a debilitating problem for their child.

 

Regards,

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 9:44:56 AMRe: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Manoj ji,

I could only say that hesitatingly, keeping my fingers crossed. I didn't have the courage to talk straight about a serious problem with your child. Rahu antar does show significant problem with the child.

I am really sorry to hear that. But you are brave and Saturn has already given you the strength and endurance to face this challenge. The angel has come to you for a larger purpose in your life. I pray for peace and happiness in your life.

 

Best WishesNeelam

[Guest guest]

Hi Manoj,

 

Though I am just a passer-by to this thread, I was moved after reading this. My kudos to you and I will pray for your child, he will surely get better.

 

Regards,

Serenity.

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:

Manoj Chandran <chandran_manojRe: Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 9:11 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

Another brilliant analysis. I wish I could sit down with you, Sreenadh Ji, Bhaskar Ji and others personally, but thanks for the internet !!!

 

In my case it was this. We had struggled for years to have a child. Finally on Jan 9, 2004 we were blessed with a son. An aboslutely beautiful angel of a child. He was brilliant met all his milestones early, by 12 months he was walking and talking. By 14 months he knew all the alphabets and all the numbers. He had 25 words ..... and the Rahu (powered by his dispositor Shani) struck a lethal blow. Our dear child stopped speaking, started flapping hands, stopped sleeping, started screaming for several hours a day. From that day onwards, till today Neelam Ji, I only sleep 3-4 hrs, so I can put my son to sleep when he wakes up. He undergoes numerous therapies and most of our income is spent on therapies (but I dont care much for money any way).

 

Autism had arrived and snatched our darling son away in the middle of the night. Till that point I had been very very religious, doing my sandhya's every day, Gayathri without missing it. Ofcourse with 9th lord in 9th house you would expect that. But this event changed every thing. Rahu had ripped my faith in to pieces. However I recovered quickly but I am not religious any more but more spiritual. Times spending with puja has been replaced by deep meditation (when possible). Money spent on Temples are now going to disabled children in my neighbhourhood. Superficial good ness has been replaced by a deeper sense of goodness.

 

My child still does not speak. For a few months I heard him say dad and papa and appa. I am not sure I will hear that again. I will cherish that memory for ever. But he is a loveable child and I am grateful to have the opportunity to serve him in this life. I know life is not a bed of roses for me, but I think I am spiritually ready for the fight now. On the plus side I have had a spiritual awakening, clairvoyant dreams and other experiences too precious to be shared easily.

 

By the way I think a Vargottam Jupiter in the 12th aspecting Rahu, Saturn and Venus is keeping every thing together through it karakatattwa (Child and Guru).

 

Thanks for the analysis and thoughts.

 

Regards

-Manoj

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>ancient_indian_ astrology@ . .comTuesday, June 2, 2009 8:39:42 AMRe: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

 

Dear Manoj ji,

Good and bad are only social constructs of which planets do not have any know-how. Except for health and longevity perhaps malefic and benefic have no other relevance in today’s materialistic life. (many may not agree).

There seems to be so much suffering around that adversity, amazingly, seems to be the way of life. To rise above it remains the only choice with us. We have to choose to learn, grow and mature through adverse circumstances. Trusting God and that we are meant to rise above the adversity and allowing the suffering to make us humble enough to dissolve our ego is our job at hand. Focus on what is eternal becomes a reality in life and material things then have no bearing on who we become on the inside..

You are running venus mahadasha, which has major influence of saturn which aspects LL, dashanath venus and Jupiter and himself is in venus star. As I said earlier, Saturn is meant to give you harder lessons through venus. Venus dasha is meant to be stressful from day one. Venus mars aspected by shani, rahu and Jupiter is obviously a formidable placement.

Venus-Rahu could’ve been merciless and brought you face-to-face with some altered reality of your life. I think it could a serious accident involving the family, or diagnosis of some chronic disease with wife which gives her some kind of handicap. With Saturn involved, is it some degenerative disorder. I also see the child suffering the trauma. I wish things are not too bad Manoj ji.

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar Ji,

 

Thanks for the wise illustrations and analogies.

 

Regards.

 

-Manoj

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 10:19:46 AM Re:Deb.Saturn_3HL+4HL_Scorpio Lagna

 

Dear Manoj ji and all,Just like Saturn has a connection with Mars in form of the Surgeonsknife , where Mars gets Exalted in Saturn House., in Same way The SUNtoo has connection with Mars the planet of aggression. The Sun too getsExalted in the house of Mars.The Fire of the Sun too has its own lessons for the mortal to be learnt.The Fire of the Burning Ghats-Smashan Ghat where a person lays to burn abody of his own beloved whom he had always been together with. TheFather who brought the son to this world, the son now shows him the wayand leads him to the other world. What a Irony, but a reality which allof us have to face.The Sun represents the Fire of the belly, which makes a man work for hisnext quota of food. Now see again the connection of Mars here. Withoutthe Fire and aggression of work, one will never be able to achieve theexaltation levels it reaches in the 10th house

of Karma and the signCapricorn. Unless the Karma is to the optimum levels one cannot reachanywhere in his duties, filiall or otherwise.The Sun represents the Fire of anger which can be destructive or alsoall pervading and saintly. On controlling this man can remove one of thefour hurdles to reach his Creator.The Sun represents the Fire of the Lust. Unless one controls this hecannot move ahead. Here too it is one of the hurdles to be overcome as"Kama". This same Fire can destroy one, and when controlled can becomethe "Ojas" sparkling in a Yogi.The Sun represents the Fire of teh Yagna or Homa. This is the easier wayto Feed,pamper and reach the Gods through the blessings as offeringsmade to the "Agnideva".The Fire of the burning wood in the chulha which allows food to becooked, and the Fire of the burning Forest which destroys the UncookedFood.The Sun manifests in form of

Agni tattwa and creates Pitta when inexcess, but if in proper proportions it is the cause of splendour in anyman to attract the world.Thpogh the Sun and Saturn are known to be inimical towards each other,and 6 days apart in a week, but they are also complementary and togetherif one sees it at the end of the week. The son may be inimical, but theFather is never. The son even if inimical still has some feelings forthe Father and always remains behind him (Sunday comes first andSaturday follows). The father though knowing that the son may haveturned truant, still is always near him. (Saturday-Sunday)There is so much about the Sun and Saturn, that a mere Life time wouldbe too less to know or talk about the same.regards,Bhaskar.ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran<chandran_manoj@ ....> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar Ji,>> Lovely analogy. I am still shivering from the cold >> -Manoj>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> ancient_indian_ astrology> Tuesday, June 2, 2009 8:06:57 AM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Deb.Saturn_ 3HL+4HL_ScorpioLagna>>>>>>> Saturn is cold and chilling. The cold of the Operation theatre whereone> is taken on the moving bed, for operation and laid on the operation> table with

all clothes taken of, ready to be cut with the Surgeons> knife.>> Saturn is the cold fear of death and impelling doom which one feelswhen> he goes to collect the Blood and Medical report for the mammascopydone> to detect Breast Cancer for the tumour on his wifes chest, or his> prostate.>> Saturn is the cold fear of ones family member passing away and the> realisation that ones time is also soon due to come sooner or later.>> Saturn is cold, chilly and freezing. It cannot be, and never be hotand> scorching like the Sun.>> Fear makes a man sweat and removes the heat of his body to come out in> droplets of sweat. This is just like the cold water bottle coming out> from the freeze.>> regards,>> Bhaskar.>