Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal calendar

June 8, 2009

Dear list-members,

For quite sometime there has been the controversy as to whether the Rashis are mentioned in the Vedic literature or not and whether the Vedic calendar is Sidereal or not. The following details, I hope, should allay the doubts on these topic.

A) Rashi in Veda

1)

Rarshis are mentioned in the Veda. Rig Veda (RV) mentions Vrshabha (RV 6.47.5; 8.93.1), Mithun (RV 3.39.3), Simha (RV 5.83.7; 9.89.3) and Kanya (RV 6.49.7). There is also mention of Kumbha (Rasi), where Agastya and Vasishtha were born. The verse is :

Ordinarily Kumbha will mean a pot or kalash but we know that Agastya was born from the womb of his mother haribhoo and not from a pot. So we understand that Agastya was born in Kumbha Rashi. Here one has to interpret the metaphors properly.

Dr.Vartak pointed out the mention of Mesha, Vrischika and Dhanu Rashis in Veda. He also identified Anas-Ratha with Tula Rashi and Shyena as Meena Rashi in the Veda. I fully support Dr. Vartak's view as he knows that the Veda itself says that it has Paroksha and Pratyaksha meaning of the verses.

2) Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha

Meena Rashi is clearly mentioned in the Vedanga Jyotisha (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha-verse 5). The verse is :

Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabhriti rasayaH

te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH

(Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) [ Here 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' means Meena and other Rashis. As Dr. Vartak points out Meena was called Shyena in the Veda 3) Rashi in Mahabharata and Bhagavata Purana Brahma Rashi (which included the Abhijit as well as the Sravana Nakshatra) is mentioned in the Mahabharata ( 6.3.17). The Verse is as follows:

I have identified the Brahma rashi as the Makar Rashi, which presently includes Sravana but not Abhijt (as the Abhijit had moved out of the ecliptic), due to the precession of the earth. The Brahma Rashi was so named as it included the Abhijit Nakshatra, which is ruled by Brahma. After the fall (ie. the moving away) of the Abhijit from the ecliptic it was dropped from the list of the 28 nakshatras and after the Mahabharata time only 27 Nakshatras are considered to be in the ecliptic and conequently the Brahma rashi was renamed as Makara Rashi in the Bhagavata purana. Similarly it is understandable that Shyena in the Veda was renamed as Meena in the Vedanga Jyotisha like the way the Brahma Rashi was renamed as the Makar rashi after the Abhijit Nakshatra was dropped from the list of the Nakshatras.

In the above discussion the presnce of the Rashis in Veda and Vedanga Jyotisha has been irrefutably established.

B) Chronology relevant to Astrology and astronomy proves that Rashis are indigenous

Chronologically the the important dates for Indian Jyotisha are as follows:

Rashis in Veda (antiquity = circa 7000 BCE)

Brahma Rashi in Mahabharata (antiquity = circa 3139 BCE). Brahma Rashi was

renamed as Makara Rashi when Abhijit was dropped from the count of the Nakshatras as it moved away from the ecliptic. The fall of the Abhijit ferom the ecliptic is mentioned in the mahabharata.

Rashi in Bhagavata Purana (antiquity = circa 3042 BCE)

Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha (antiquity = circa 2400 BCE to 1800 BCE)

Date of Aryabhatta (1325 BCE). He wrote Aryasiddhanta.

Date of Varahamihira (124 BCE). He wrote Panchasiddhantika, which included Suryasiddhanta. Varahamihira himself mentioned his date in terms of the Sakanta-kala (which starts from 551 BCE) and not Saka- kala (which starts from 78 CE).

We all Indians and particularly the Kashmiris should be proud that Kashmir has the credit of giving India one of the earliest traditional Hindu calendars, called Laukika or Saptarshi calendar, which started from 3077 BCE (ie. 25 years aftyer the start of the Kali yuga in 3102 BCE). Alberuni and Kalhana mentioned that calendar. We all salute the great Kashmiri Astronomers of the past. Because of the unbroken tradition of this calendar we can now boldly fix the date of the Mahabharata war as well as the date of the Bhagavata Purana without depending on the astronomical and other evidences.

This amply shows that the Rashis are indigenous and could not have been imported from Greece or Babylonia.

C) Vedic calendar is Sidereal. Vedas give Tropical months too.

Vedic calendar is Sidereal and have the Sidereal or the Rashi-based solar months. The Rashis are conglomerates or groups of Nakshatras. However the Tropical or seasonal -months were also recognised in the vedic literature. The seasonal months are based on the Solstices and the equinoxes. For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is the seasonal month of Tapa. The seasonal months occur in different Nakshatras at diferent times. As the seasonal months do not permanently occur in the same Nakshatra and Rashi for ever, one can use that information for the dating of the past events mentioned in the Vedic literature, in cases where the solsticial and equinoctal data are given alongside the events.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

June 8, 2009

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the following statement you make -//However

the Tropical or seasonal -months were also recognised in the vedic

literature. ......... For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is the

seasonal month of Tapa. // As far as I could understand - * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The vedic zodiac concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical. Further do you think and agree that - the whole of northern hemisphere will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season concept? Also do you want to agree with those people who argue that, since tropical zodiac is in use the season, agriculture and climate of the whole southern hemisphere would be the same? Have you ever observed that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as flowering (spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in malayalam; the tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the same time both Kerla and Delhi? You cannot! Because the season of the whole of northern or southern hemisphere is not the same. The trees and plants are intellegent and they know when to flower. The golden shower will flower in March in Kerala but only in April in Delhi - can you guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical zodiac dependent - that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful. (A very difficult point that goes against the popular notion) * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they are Vedic SIDEREAL months. I have clarified the same in: http://www.nastrology.com/cmsa/index.php?option=com_content & view=article & id=115:vedic-month-names & catid=38:sayana-jyotisha & Itemid=60Love and regards,Sreenadh

June 16, 2009

Please read my reply in message no. 23660, where I have exposed the lie of

Ramveer Singh.

--- On Mon, 6/15/09, singh_ramveer <singh_ramveer wrote:

singh_ramveer <singh_ramveer

Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology

and the Sidereal calendar

Monday, June 15, 2009, 12:52 PM

dear public

pls read msg number 23653 for the answers which he didnt post and you will get

to know why he didnt post those here

, sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear list-members,

> Â

> For quite sometime there has been the controversy as to whether the Rashis are

mentioned in the Vedic literature or not and whether the Vedic calendar is

Sidereal or not. The following details, I hope, shouldÂ allayÂ the doubts on

these topic.

> Â

>

> A) Rashi in Veda

> Â

> 1)

> Rarshis are mentioned in the Veda. Rig Veda (RV) mentions Vrshabha (RV 6.47.5;

8.93.1), Mithun (RV 3.39.3), Simha (RV 5.83.7; 9.89.3) andÂ Kanya (RV 6.49.7).

There is also mention of KumbhaÂ (Rasi), where Agastya and Vasishtha were born.

The verse is :

> Â

> Â

> Ordinarily Kumbha will mean a pot or kalash but we know that Agastya was born

from the womb of his mother haribhoo and not from a pot. So we understand that

Agastya was born in Kumbha Rashi. Here one has to interpret the metaphors

properly.

> Â

> Dr.Vartak pointed out the mention ofÂ Â Mesha, VrischikaÂ Â and Dhanu Rashis

in Veda. He alsoÂ identified Anas-Ratha with Tula Rashi andÂ ShyenaÂ as Meena

Rashi in the Veda.Â Â I fully support Dr. Vartak's viewÂ as he knows that the

Veda itself says that it has Paroksha and Pratyaksha meaning of the verses.

> Â

> 2) Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha

> Â

> Meena Rashi is clearly mentioned in the Vedanga Jyotisha (Yajur Vedanga

Jyotisha-verse 5).Â Â The verse is :Â Â

> Â

> Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabhriti rasayaH

>

> te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH

>

> (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5)

> [

> HereÂ 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' means Meena and other Rashis. As Dr. Vartak

points out Meena was called Â ShyenaÂ in the VedaÂ Â

> Â

> 3) Rashi in MahabharataÂ and Bhagavata Purana

> Â

> Brahma Rashi (whichÂ included the Abhijit as well as the Sravana Nakshatra) is

mentioned in the Mahabharata (Â 6.3.17). The Verse is as follows:

> Â

à¤ªà¤¾à¤µà¤•à¤ªà¥à¤°à¤à¤ƒ

> Â

> I have identified the Brahma rashi asÂ the Makar Rashi, which presently

includes Sravana but not Abhijt (as the Abhijit had moved out of the ecliptic),

due to the precession of the earth.Â The Brahma Rashi was so named as it

included the Abhijit Nakshatra, which is ruled by Brahma. After the fall (ie.

the moving away)Â of the Abhijit from the ecliptic it was dropped from the list

of the 28 nakshatras and after the Mahabharata time only 27 Nakshatras are

considered to be in the ecliptic and conequently the Brahma rashi was renamed as

Makara Rashi in the Bhagavata purana.Â Similarly it is understandable Â that

ShyenaÂ in the VedaÂ Â was renamed asÂ Meena in the Vedanga JyotishaÂ like the

wayÂ the Brahma Rashi was renamed as the Makar rashi after theÂ

AbhijitÂ Nakshatra was dropped from the list of the Nakshatras.

> Â

> In the above discussion the presnce of the Rashis in Veda and Vedanga Jyotisha

has been irrefutably established.

> Â

> B)Â Â Chronology relevant to AstrologyÂ and astronomyÂ proves that Rashis are

indigenous

> Â

> Chronologically the the important dates for Indian Jyotisha are as follows:

> Â

> Rashis in Veda (antiquityÂ = circa 7000Â BCE)

> Â

> Brahma RashiÂ Â in Mahabharata (antiquity = circa 3139 BCE). Brahma Rashi was

> renamed as Makara Rashi when Abhijit was dropped from the count of the

Nakshatras as it moved away from the ecliptic. The fall of the Abhijit ferom the

ecliptic is mentioned in the mahabharata.

> Â

> Rashi in Bhagavata Purana (antiquity = circa 3042 BCE)

> Â

> Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha (antiquity =Â circa 2400 BCEÂ to 1800 BCE)

> Â

> Date of Aryabhatta (1325 BCE). He wrote Aryasiddhanta.

> Â

> Date of Varahamihira (124 BCE). He wrote Panchasiddhantika, which included

Suryasiddhanta.Â Varahamihira himselfÂ mentioned his date in terms of the

Sakanta-kala (which starts from 551 BCE)Â and not Saka- kala (which starts from

78 CE).

> Â

> We all Indians and particularly the Kashmiris should be proud that Kashmir has

the credit of giving India one of theÂ earliest traditional Hindu calendars,

called Laukika or Saptarshi calendar, which started from 3077 BCE (ie. 25 years

aftyer the start of the Kali yuga in 3102 BCE). Â Alberuni and Kalhana mentioned

that calendar.Â We all saluteÂ the great Kashmiri Astronomers of the past.

Because of the unbroken tradition of this calendar we can now boldly fix the

date of the Mahabharata war Â as well asÂ the date of the Bhagavata

PuranaÂ without depending on the astronomical and other evidences.Â Â

> Â

> This amply shows that the Rashis are indigenous and could not have been

imported from Greece or Babylonia.Â Â

> Â

> C) Vedic calendar is Sidereal. Vedas give Tropical months too.

> Â

> Vedic calendar is Sidereal and have the Sidereal or the Rashi-based solar

months. The Rashis are conglomerates or groups of Nakshatras. However the

Tropical or seasonal -monthsÂ Â were also recognised in the vedic

literature.Â The seasonal months are based on the Solstices and the equinoxes.

For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is the seasonal month of

Tapa.Â The seasonal monthsÂ occur in different Nakshatras at diferent times.Â As

the seasonal months do not permanently occur in the same Nakshatra and Rashi for

ever, one canÂ use that information forÂ the dating of the past events mentioned

in the Vedic literature, in cases where the solsticial and equinoctal data are

given alongside the events.

> Â

> Regards,

> Â

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> Â

>

June 16, 2009

Thank you Sreeram Srinivasji,

You have made a very good observation. I agree.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Tue, 6/16/09, sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote:

sreeram srinivas <sreeram64

Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology

and the Sidereal calendar

Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 2:20 AM

Namaste Mr. Bhattacharya ji,

I do not find anything new in Mr. Ramveer Singh for his logics find

accurate replica of Mr. Kaul...which makes his intention more clear, so

conclude Mr. Ramveer Singh, Mr. Harimalla, Mr. Kaul are all aliases of

one person, otherwise how can all of them consistently raise the same

doubts same points same language but only with different ids ??

I feel it is better to ignore them and draw their own conclusions for

they are hell-bent raising anti-astrology tirade endlessly.

With regards,

Sreeram_Srinivas

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