Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

 

When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time. Lord Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season) in the Bhagavad Gita. To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate heat. It appears to me that if Tapa is not the correct name then we will have to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

You are trying to create a new type of scripture, only you can understand.You

forget the defintion of spring as Madhu and Madhav.

I feel even Bhattachrjyaji is mislead by Shreenadhji.

Sorry for my harsh comments.

Please come out of your dreams.Thank you.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadhji,

>  

> When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha

Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time.  Lord

Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season)  in the Bhagavad Gita.

To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two

months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months

 cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some

people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as

the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate

heat. It appears to me that if  Tapa is not the correct name then we will have

to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>  

>  

>  

>  

>

>

> --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

>

>

> Sreenadh <sreesog

> Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the

Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal calendar

>

> Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:12 AM

>

>

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,

>   That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the following

statement you make -

> //However the Tropical or seasonal -months  were also recognised in the vedic

literature. ......... For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is

the seasonal month of Tapa. //

>  As far as I could understand -

>   * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The vedic zodiac

concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical.

>     Further do you think and agree that - the whole of northern hemisphere

will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season concept? Also do you

want to agree with those  people who argue that, since tropical zodiac is in use

the season, agriculture and climate of the whole southern hemisphere would be

the same?

>    Have you ever observed that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as flowering

(spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in malayalam; the

tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the same time both Kerla

and Delhi?  You cannot! Because the season of the whole of northern or southern

hemisphere is not the same.  The trees and plants are intellegent and they know

when to flower.  The golden shower will flower in March in Kerala but only in

April in Delhi - can you guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical

zodiac dependent - that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful.

(A very difficult point that goes against the popular notion)

>   * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they are Vedic

SIDEREAL  months. I have clarified the same in: http://www.ancienti

ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_

content & view=article & id=115:vedic- month-names & catid=38:sayana-

jyotisha & Itemid=60

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunilji,

'Seasonal months cannot have rashi-based names.' This is not quite correct in

the practical sense.Do you mean to say that the solar months like Chaitra,

Baisakh related to mesh, brisha do not give the seaosnal meaning to the general

public.I am sure that you discovered them to be related to the stars only and

not to the seasons, late in your life time when you read of tropical and

sidereal sytems.As a young man did you not think them to be indicateive of the

seasons, if you used them for your every day use?

Thus please be practical.Perhaps even the knowledge of the sayan and nirayan

sytems is unknown to the general public.What to say of the public, upto 1000

Bikram sambat even the astronomers or astrologers never treated them as

different.Only Munjal and others took them as different when the ayanamsa was

appreciable or about 10 degrees.

Thus please understand that no vedic months are meant to be unseasonal, wether

solar or lunar.Only lunar moslem months are unseasonal.Vedic months are seasonal

wether solar or lunar and even sidereal months were intended to be seasonal as

well.Only many many centuries after their formation, they were discovered to be

different and subsequently they were indeed differentiated by the astrologers or

astronomers.But to the general public it is indeed the same even now.

You are enlightened persons and i hope you will take matters in an unbiased

way.Somehow I have come to be fond of both you and Mr. Shreenadhji, inspite of

the difference of opinions which frequently crop up among us.

Thus if you are ready to submit yourselves to the truth of the scriptures,I am

interested to continue our discussions.but if you think you need no more

discussions as you are already knowledgeable, I will bother you no more.

Thanks and Regards,

Hari Malla

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadhji,

>  

> When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha

Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time.  Lord

Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season)  in the Bhagavad Gita.

To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two

months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months

 cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some

people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as

the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate

heat. It appears to me that if  Tapa is not the correct name then we will have

to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>  

>  

>  

>  

>

>

> --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

>

>

> Sreenadh <sreesog

> Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the

Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal calendar

>

> Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:12 AM

>

>

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,

>   That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the following

statement you make -

> //However the Tropical or seasonal -months  were also recognised in the vedic

literature. ......... For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is

the seasonal month of Tapa. //

>  As far as I could understand -

>   * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The vedic zodiac

concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical.

>     Further do you think and agree that - the whole of northern hemisphere

will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season concept? Also do you

want to agree with those  people who argue that, since tropical zodiac is in use

the season, agriculture and climate of the whole southern hemisphere would be

the same?

>    Have you ever observed that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as flowering

(spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in malayalam; the

tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the same time both Kerla

and Delhi?  You cannot! Because the season of the whole of northern or southern

hemisphere is not the same.  The trees and plants are intellegent and they know

when to flower.  The golden shower will flower in March in Kerala but only in

April in Delhi - can you guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical

zodiac dependent - that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful.

(A very difficult point that goes against the popular notion)

>   * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they are Vedic

SIDEREAL  months. I have clarified the same in: http://www.ancienti

ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_

content & view=article & id=115:vedic- month-names & catid=38:sayana-

jyotisha & Itemid=60

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, Quote> When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the

Dhanistha Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at

that time. Unquote True - as you and me clearly understand the above statement means that - The solstices and equinoxes are moving above the fixed sidereal Nakshatra zodiac. (Note that here the Nakshatra Chakra against which the movement of winter solstice is mentioned is sidereal in nature and NOT tropical. Here Vedas mention only a sidereal reference from Nakashtra chakra and a moving point that is winter solstice). Here we never mistakenly assume that Nakshatra chakra is tropical in nature and not sidereal. I am just saying that the same is true for the vedic sidereal months like tapa, tapasya as well, as evident from the references in Rik vedanga jyotisha, linga puranna and garuda purana.Quote Lord Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season) in the

Bhagavad Gita. To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu.

As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months and

the seasonal months cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are

linked to the Nakshatras.Unquote Ofcouse Ritus (6 ritus) is a Vedic concept and might have got menioned in many ancient texts. Since the year is composed of 12 months and 6 ritus, it is ok to state that a Ritu is composed of two months. Now the question arises - what was the names used for such seasonal months? Ofcourse if there was any such name in use, then certainly it is not Tapa, tapasya etc but something else, since it is well evident that Tapa, Tapasya etc are sidereal months. Ofcouse we can search for the names for seasonal months in Veda - this is an open research area. QuoteSome people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the

cold season as the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold

season as Tapasya generate heat. Unquote I don't agree to this argument. The reasons for this disagreement I have already expressed in the article present in AIA website on Vedic month names. I am stating the same again below -Quote

· The tropical solar months will have names

that reflect the seasons which they represent. i.e. The meaning of the words

used as month names will point to the seasons they represent.

· For tropical month names - at all periods of

time, people would be referring to particular months with a particular season

with the same name itself.

Madhuvadi months do not seem to be `Tropical months'

considering the following points –

If we

accept this system we will have to accept that –Vedic

sages named the cold seasons as hot seasons! (Tapa and Tapasya mean hot)Vedic

sages named the cloudy rain season as clean sky seasons! (Nabha and

Nabhasya mean `clean sky')Similarly

we will have to wonder why they named the hot seasons as white (sukra)

and clean (Suchi) and so on. Similar logic holds good for all month

names. Even

though throughout the sequence there is only one month name with the

meaning repeating or beginning (i.e. Isha) we will have to accept that

Isha is not the beginning month but instead Madhu masa.

These two basic arguments prompt me to deny any possibility

of considering these month names as Tropical Solar. What ever be the popular

opinion, I am not ready to join the thoughtless mass who assumes that these

months are Tropical solar in nature.

Unquote You state that -QuoteIt appears to me that if Tapa is not

the correct name then we will have to find the correct name for the

Riru-based months from the ancient literature.Unquote Yes, Tapa etc are NOT the correct names for the vedic seasonal months - tapa etc are vedic sidereal months. Ofcouse some clue regarding the names of vedic tropical month names are available, which I will try to address later in another mail. (I have seen a reference to Sun based vedic month names earlier some where and is looking for it again).Love and regards,Sreenadh , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time. Lord Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season) in the Bhagavad Gita. To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate heat. It appears to me that if Tapa is not the correct name then we will have to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

[Guest guest]

Dear Harimalla ji, Whether the comments be harsh or mello, it does not have any value as long as you cannot substantiate it with data and logic. So please get some old vedic quotes that supports your argument, and substantiating it with good logic preset it here and if you do so, then only your statement has any value, otherwise not. ==>You forget the definition of spring as Madhu and Madhav.<== There is no Vedic defenition of spring as Madhu or Madhav. Those vedic references only imply that at the time of the creation of those books/quotes Spring season was in tune with the sidereal months Madhu and Madhav. If you want to prove it otherwise, then provide more quotes that proves that it is not so. My statement would be that - You are trying to establish a tropical zodiac and also trying to find tropical month names in vedic literature. But till now you don't even know even the tropical month names used Vedic period. You are trying to speak about and establish something that you yourself don't know and sure about! Or may be you just want to distroy the valuable ancient systems only and don't want to recreate or establish the vedic system and knowledge. So just have fun of learning if you don't have quotes, data, logic and arguments to substantiate the point you want to convay. Note: As far as the understandability of the article Vedic Month Names is concerned it was well accepted, appreciated and understood by many already. Your case I don't know. :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "harimalla" <harimalla wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> You are trying to create a new type of scripture, only you can understand.You forget the definition of spring as Madhu and Madhav.> I feel even Bhattachrjyaji is mislead by Shreenadhji.> Sorry for my harsh comments.> Please come out of your dreams.Thank you.> Regards,> Hari Malla

[Guest guest]

Dear Harimallaji.

 

First please try to understand how the Tropical months differ from the Sidereal months. The naming of the months comes next. It appears that you have not understood the effects of precession at all. Please don't take the name of scriptures. You have absolutely no regard for scriptures or else you would not have proposed to to delink the rashis from the nakshatras. As you are not submitting yourself to the truth of the scriptures what is the use of discussing?.

 

Sincerely,

 

SKB

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 6/9/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

harimalla <harimalla Re: Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 8:50 PM

 

 

Dear Sunilji,'Seasonal months cannot have rashi-based names.' This is not quite correct in the practical sense.Do you mean to say that the solar months like Chaitra, Baisakh related to mesh, brisha do not give the seaosnal meaning to the general public.I am sure that you discovered them to be related to the stars only and not to the seasons, late in your life time when you read of tropical and sidereal sytems.As a young man did you not think them to be indicateive of the seasons, if you used them for your every day use?Thus please be practical.Perhaps even the knowledge of the sayan and nirayan sytems is unknown to the general public.What to say of the public, upto 1000 Bikram sambat even the astronomers or astrologers never treated them as different.Only Munjal and others took them as different when the ayanamsa was appreciable or about 10 degrees.Thus please understand that no vedic months are meant to be unseasonal, wether solar or

lunar.Only lunar moslem months are unseasonal.Vedic months are seasonal wether solar or lunar and even sidereal months were intended to be seasonal as well.Only many many centuries after their formation, they were discovered to be different and subsequently they were indeed differentiated by the astrologers or astronomers. But to the general public it is indeed the same even now.You are enlightened persons and i hope you will take matters in an unbiased way.Somehow I have come to be fond of both you and Mr. Shreenadhji, inspite of the difference of opinions which frequently crop up among us. Thus if you are ready to submit yourselves to the truth of the scriptures,I am interested to continue our discussions. but if you think you need no more discussions as you are already knowledgeable, I will bother you no more.Thanks and Regards,Hari Mallaancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time. Lord Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season) in the Bhagavad Gita. To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as the Tapa and Tapasya are best

performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate heat. It appears to me that if Tapa is not the correct name then we will have to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote:> > > Sreenadh <sreesog >> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal calendar> ancient_indian_ astrology> Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:12 AM> > > >

> > > > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the following statement you make -> //However the Tropical or seasonal -months were also recognised in the vedic literature. ......... For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is the seasonal month of Tapa. //> As far as I could understand -> * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The vedic zodiac concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical.> Further do you think and agree that - the whole of northern hemisphere will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season concept? Also do you want to agree with those people who argue that, since tropical zodiac is in use the season, agriculture and climate of the whole southern hemisphere would be the same?> Have you ever observed

that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as flowering (spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in malayalam; the tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the same time both Kerla and Delhi? You cannot! Because the season of the whole of northern or southern hemisphere is not the same. The trees and plants are intellegent and they know when to flower. The golden shower will flower in March in Kerala but only in April in Delhi - can you guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical zodiac dependent - that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful. (A very difficult point that goes against the popular notion)> * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they are Vedic SIDEREAL months. I have clarified the same in: http://www.ancienti ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_ content & view=

article & id= 115:vedic- month-names & catid=38: sayana- jyotisha & Itemid= 60> Love and regards,> Sreenadh>

[Guest guest]

Dear Harimallaji,

 

Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.

 

Sincerely

 

SKB--- On Tue, 6/9/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

harimalla <harimalla Re: Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 6:52 PM

 

 

Dear Sreenadhji,You are trying to create a new type of scripture, only you can understand.You forget the defintion of spring as Madhu and Madhav.I feel even Bhattachrjyaji is mislead by Shreenadhji.Sorry for my harsh comments.Please come out of your dreams.Thank you.Regards,Hari Mallaancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time. Lord Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season) in the Bhagavad Gita. To my knowledge the

Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate heat. It appears to me that if Tapa is not the correct name then we will have to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote:> > > Sreenadh <sreesog >> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

calendar> ancient_indian_ astrology> Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:12 AM> > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the following statement you make -> //However the Tropical or seasonal -months were also recognised in the vedic literature. ......... For example the first month after the Winter Solstice is the seasonal month of Tapa. //> As far as I could understand -> * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The vedic zodiac concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical.> Further do you think and agree

that - the whole of northern hemisphere will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season concept? Also do you want to agree with those people who argue that, since tropical zodiac is in use the season, agriculture and climate of the whole southern hemisphere would be the same?> Have you ever observed that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as flowering (spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in malayalam; the tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the same time both Kerla and Delhi? You cannot! Because the season of the whole of northern or southern hemisphere is not the same. The trees and plants are intellegent and they know when to flower. The golden shower will flower in March in Kerala but only in April in Delhi - can you guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical zodiac dependent - that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful. (A very difficult

point that goes against the popular notion)> * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they are Vedic SIDEREAL months. I have clarified the same in: http://www.ancienti ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_ content & view= article & id= 115:vedic- month-names & catid=38: sayana- jyotisha & Itemid= 60> Love and regards,> Sreenadh>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji and Hari Malla ji,

There is a point to be noted in Hari malla ji's mail. You earlier

stated that -

Quote

As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months and

the seasonal months

cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the

Nakshatras.

Unquote

But I agree think this is true and agree with the following argument

of Hari malla ji.

Quote

> 'Seasonal months cannot have rashi-based names.' This is not quite

correct in the practical sense.Do you mean to say that the solar months

like Chaitra, Baisakh related to mesh, brisha do not give the seaosnal

meaning to the general public.I am sure that you discovered them to be

related to the stars only and not to the seasons, late in your life time

when you read of tropical and sidereal sytems.

Unquote

But of course I disagree with the statement of Hari malla ji when he

states -

Quote

> Thus please understand that no vedic months are meant to be

unseasonal, wether solar or lunar.

Unquote

Actually I have the near opposite opinion that is - almost no vedic

months are meant to be Seasonal whether solar of lunar - i.e. almost all

vedic month names are sidereal in nature.

Quote

> You are enlightened persons and i hope you will take matters in an

unbiased way.Somehow I have come to be fond of both you and Mr.

Shreenadhji, inspite of the difference of opinions which frequently crop

up among us.

Unquote

Good to know that you are fond of both of us. Even though have

difference of opinion, we too are fond of you. Yes, let us see to

see matters in an unbaised way. This is the very reason we express

our on understanding and don't agree to half baked, erronious

assumptions. Let us study enough, uderstand enough ourselves and let

us not try to force our ignorance and opinions on others. If anyone

agrees to our logic and understanding that much good - if not that too

is good. Everybody has their own learning cure and time, and neither

your nor my opinion is perfect. So let us try to substantiate our

arguments with logic and data.

Quote

Thus if you are ready to submit yourselves to the truth of the

scriptures

Unquote

The question is do you and me know the truth of the scriptures or

not or is it that we are just with our own interpretations? What you

say is just your (erronious from my perspective) interpretation of the

scripture only and NOT the truth. Hope you get it.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " harimalla "

<harimalla wrote:

>

> Dear Sunilji,

> 'Seasonal months cannot have rashi-based names.' This is not quite

correct in the practical sense.Do you mean to say that the solar months

like Chaitra, Baisakh related to mesh, brisha do not give the seaosnal

meaning to the general public.I am sure that you discovered them to be

related to the stars only and not to the seasons, late in your life time

when you read of tropical and sidereal sytems.As a young man did you not

think them to be indicateive of the seasons, if you used them for your

every day use?

> Thus please be practical.Perhaps even the knowledge of the sayan and

nirayan sytems is unknown to the general public.What to say of the

public, upto 1000 Bikram sambat even the astronomers or astrologers

never treated them as different.Only Munjal and others took them as

different when the ayanamsa was appreciable or about 10 degrees.

> Thus please understand that no vedic months are meant to be

unseasonal, wether solar or lunar.Only lunar moslem months are

unseasonal.Vedic months are seasonal wether solar or lunar and even

sidereal months were intended to be seasonal as well.Only many many

centuries after their formation, they were discovered to be different

and subsequently they were indeed differentiated by the astrologers or

astronomers.But to the general public it is indeed the same even now.

> You are enlightened persons and i hope you will take matters in an

unbiased way.Somehow I have come to be fond of both you and Mr.

Shreenadhji, inspite of the difference of opinions which frequently crop

up among us.

> Thus if you are ready to submit yourselves to the truth of the

scriptures,I am interested to continue our discussions.but if you think

you need no more discussions as you are already knowledgeable, I will

bother you no more.

> Thanks and Regards,

> Hari Malla

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadhji,

> >

> > When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the

Dhanistha Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at

that time. Lord Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season)

in the Bhagavad Gita. To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta

Ritu. As each Ritu has two months there is indication of seasonal months

and the seasonal months cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are

linked to the Nakshatras. Some people still believe that the Name Tapa

is associated with the cold season as the Tapa and Tapasya are best

performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate heat. It appears to me

that if Tapa is not the correct name then we will have to find the

correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Sreenadh sreesog@

> > Re: Rashi in Vedic literature,

the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal calendar

> >

> > Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:12 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,

> > That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the

following statement you make -

> > //However the Tropical or seasonal -months were also recognised in

the vedic literature. ......... For example the first month after the

Winter Solstice is the seasonal month of Tapa. //

> > As far as I could understand -

> > * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The

vedic zodiac concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical.

> > Further do you think and agree that - the whole of northern

hemisphere will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season

concept? Also do you want to agree with those people who argue that,

since tropical zodiac is in use the season, agriculture and climate of

the whole southern hemisphere would be the same?

> > Have you ever observed that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as

flowering (spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in

malayalam; the tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the

same time both Kerla and Delhi? You cannot! Because the season of the

whole of northern or southern hemisphere is not the same. The trees and

plants are intellegent and they know when to flower. The golden shower

will flower in March in Kerala but only in April in Delhi - can you

guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical zodiac dependent -

that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful. (A very

difficult point that goes against the popular notion)

> > * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they

are Vedic SIDEREAL months. I have clarified the same in:

http://www.ancienti ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_

content & view=article & id=115:vedic- month-names & catid=38:sayana-

jyotisha & Itemid=60

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shreenadhji,

quote:

<There is no Vedic defenition of spring as Madhu or Madhav. Those

> vedic references only imply that at the time of the creation of those

> books/quotes Spring season was in tune with the sidereal months Madhu

> and Madhav. If you want to prove it otherwise, then provide more

quotes>unquote

If the following quote does not satisfy you there is no medicine for you.So

please let me know if it satisfies you or not:

 

In Sukla Yajurved Samhita(13.25; 14.15; 14.27; 15.57)we find it as follows:

'Madhuscha madhavascha vasantikavritu,......Tapascha Tapasyashcha

shaishiravritu'

If it doesnot prove to you that Madhu madhav are seasonal months,I repeat that

there is no medicine for your prejudice.So kindly let me know if you still have

doubt.Thank you.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

 

, " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Harimalla ji,

> Whether the comments be harsh or mello, it does not have any value as

> long as you cannot substantiate it with data and logic. So please get

> some old vedic quotes that supports your argument, and substantiating it

> with good logic preset it here and if you do so, then only your

> statement has any value, otherwise not.

> ==>

> You forget the definition of spring as Madhu and Madhav.

> <==

> There is no Vedic defenition of spring as Madhu or Madhav. Those

> vedic references only imply that at the time of the creation of those

> books/quotes Spring season was in tune with the sidereal months Madhu

> and Madhav. If you want to prove it otherwise, then provide more quotes

> that proves that it is not so.

> My statement would be that - You are trying to establish a tropical

> zodiac and also trying to find tropical month names in vedic literature.

> But till now you don't even know even the tropical month names used

> Vedic period. You are trying to speak about and establish something

> that you yourself don't know and sure about! Or may be you just want

> to distroy the valuable ancient systems only and don't want to recreate

> or establish the vedic system and knowledge. So just have fun of

> learning if you don't have quotes, data, logic and arguments to

> substantiate the point you want to convay.

> Note: As far as the understandability of the article Vedic Month Names

> <http://www.nastrology.com/cmsa/index.php?option=com_content\

> & view=article & id=115:vedic-month-names & catid=38:sayana-jyotisha & Itemid=6\

> 0> is concerned it was well accepted, appreciated and understood by

> many already. Your case I don't know.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " harimalla@ "

> <harimalla@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadhji,

> > You are trying to create a new type of scripture, only you can

> understand.You forget the definition of spring as Madhu and Madhav.

> > I feel even Bhattachrjyaji is mislead by Shreenadhji.

> > Sorry for my harsh comments.

> > Please come out of your dreams.Thank you.

> > Regards,

> > Hari Malla

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that to

Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for

other names of months which are tropical?

When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think if

we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha

and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be

proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names of

the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick

to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know it

no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call mirgashira

as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our scriptures become

false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural wordings or to the old

names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there

is no time for delay.

Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any more.Please

confirm.thanks,

Hari Malla

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Harimallaji,

>  

> Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though

rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well

known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and

Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

>  

> Sincerely

>  

> SKB

>

> --- On Tue, 6/9/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> harimalla <harimalla

> Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

>

> Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 6:52 PM

>

>

Dear Sreenadhji,

> You are trying to create a new type of scripture, only you can understand.You

forget the defintion of spring as Madhu and Madhav.

> I feel even Bhattachrjyaji is mislead by Shreenadhji.

> Sorry for my harsh comments.

> Please come out of your dreams.Thank you.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadhji,

> >  

> > When we say that the Winter solstice occurred in the past in the Dhanistha

Nakshatra it means that the Sishira Ritu / season started at that time.  Lord

Krishna mentions the Kusumakara Ritu (flowering season)  in the Bhagavad Gita.

To my knowledge the Kusumakara Ritu is the Vasanta Ritu. As each Ritu has two

months there is indication of seasonal months and the seasonal months

 cannot have Rasi-based names as the Rashis are linked to the Nakshatras. Some

people still believe that the Name Tapa is associated with the cold season as

the Tapa and Tapasya are best performed in the cold season as Tapasya generate

heat. It appears to me that if  Tapa is not the correct name then we will have

to find the correct name for the Riru-based months from the ancient literature.

> >  

> > Regards,

> >  

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >  

> >  

> >  

> >  

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Sreenadh <sreesog@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> > Sreenadh <sreesog@ >

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the

Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:12 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,

> >   That was an informative mail. Thanks. But I don't agree to the following

statement you make -

> > //However the Tropical or seasonal -months  were also recognised in the

vedic literature. ......... For example the first month after the Winter

Solstice is the seasonal month of Tapa. //

> >  As far as I could understand -

> >   * There NO TROPICAL MONTHS mentioned in Vedic literature. The vedic zodiac

concept was sidereal in nature and NOT tropical.

> >     Further do you think and agree that - the whole of northern hemisphere

will have the same climate as indicated by the 6 season concept? Also do you

want to agree with those  people who argue that, since tropical zodiac is in use

the season, agriculture and climate of the whole southern hemisphere would be

the same?

> >    Have you ever observed that in delhi March 21 to May 21st as flowering

(spring) season? Did you see the golden shower (kani konna in malayalam; the

tree showing equinox position of Sun?!) flowering at the same time both Kerla

and Delhi?  You cannot! Because the season of the whole of northern or southern

hemisphere is not the same.  The trees and plants are intellegent and they know

when to flower.  The golden shower will flower in March in Kerala but only in

April in Delhi - can you guess why? Because climate is not merely tropical

zodiac dependent - that dependance is simply indirect and not direct and useful.

(A very difficult point that goes against the popular notion)

> >   * The months like Tapa etc are NOT seasonal in nature, but they are Vedic

SIDEREAL  months. I have clarified the same in: http://www.ancienti

ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_ content & view= article & id=

115:vedic- month-names & catid=38: sayana- jyotisha & Itemid= 60

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Harimallaji,

 

You said

 

Quote

 

When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be proved wrong.

 

Unquote

 

No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

 

We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

 

pulastya uvÄcasvarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |sÅ«ryaká¹£etraṃ vibhorbrahman há¹›dayaṃ parigÄ«yate || 5.35 ||uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitÄ«yaṃ jaá¹­haraṃ vibhoḥ ||

5.36 ||citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |Å«ruyugalamÄ«Å›asya amarará¹£e pragÄ«yate || 5.39 ||uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

 

You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.

 

Sincerely,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

harimalla <harimalla Re: Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

 

 

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer

to stick to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any more.Please confirm.thanks,Hari Mallaancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:>> Dear Harimallaji,> > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.> > Sincerely> > SKB>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new

spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to denote

the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season of

grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the ram

has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should,

and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88

constellations.Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the

same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

Regards,

Hari Malla

, sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Harimallaji,

>  

> You said

>  

> Quote

>  

> When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.

>  

> Unquote

>  

> No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know that

Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These seasons

can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

>  

> We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The

great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

>  

> pulastya uvÄca

> svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||

> má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |

> sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||

> proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |

> dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

>  

> You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled

to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid

for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not

but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his

followers.

>  

> Sincerely,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

> --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> harimalla <harimalla

> Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

>

> Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

>

>

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that

to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for

other names of months which are tropical?

> When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names

of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must

stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know

it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> Hari Malla

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > Dear Harimallaji,

> >  

> > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though

rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well

known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and

Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

> >  

> > Sincerely

> >  

> > SKB

> >

>

>

>

>

> Recent Activity

>

>

>  24

> New Members

>

>  1

> New FilesVisit Your Group

>

>

>

> Need traffic?

> Drive customers

> With search ads

> on

>

>

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>

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> on all things Groups!

> .

>

[Guest guest]

YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING. DON"T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID. I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION. SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME THING.

 

 

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

harimalla <harimalla Re: Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

 

 

Dear Bhatacharjyaji,Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this. What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.Please

understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be

shifted the names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the Bhagvatam?Regards,Hari Mallaancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Harimallaji,> > You said> > Quote> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be proved wrong.> > Unquote> > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be

intelligent enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.> > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:> > pulastya uvÄca> svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |> yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||> yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |> meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||> ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |> saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||> má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya

śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||> ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |> rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||> pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |> sÅ«ryaká¹£etraṃ vibhorbrahman há¹›dayaṃ parigÄ«yate || 5.35 ||> uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |> somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitÄ«yaṃ jaá¹­haraṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||> citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |> dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||> viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||> mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |> Å«ruyugalamÄ«Å›asya amarará¹£e pragÄ«yate || 5.39 ||> uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |>

dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||> dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |> saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||> proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |> dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||> evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |> viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||> > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.> > Sincerely,>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..> wrote:> > > harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..>> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> ancient_indian_ astrology> Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM> > > > > > > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?> When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring

season, do you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.> For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.> Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any more.Please confirm.thanks,> Hari

Malla> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> >> > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.> > > > Sincerely> > > > SKB> >> > > > > Recent Activity> > > 24> New Members> > 1> New FilesVisit Your Group> > > > Need traffic?> Drive customers> With search ads> on > > > Green> Make It

Green> Share ideas that> better our planet> > Check out the> Y! Groups blog> Stay up to speed> on all things Groups!> .>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well adored by the

overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower Bhagvatam by the quotation

of Pulastya.

Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on the effect

of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this question so you will do

some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but please say something by yoursself

or after consultation.

I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of your

quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the quotations,I can

guarantee you that no normal person will give so much importance to your

pulastya, as you have given, which you think is sufficient to challenge even the

continuity of the words of Bhagvatam. Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint

of the masses, it is not a deciding factor at all.

It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over the

nakshyatras.In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan sankranti, when we

try to define it. Does this simple statement or definition prohibit the shifting

of the nirayan sankranti and the names of the rashis and nakshyatras to maintain

the dharma shastras always as they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti

and the nirayan sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this

definition stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun

in dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your

mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by geniuses

like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to establish anything

on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a simple definition known to

all.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE

THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA

SAID.  I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S

PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY

ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION.  SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

THING. 

>  

>  

> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> harimalla <harimalla

> Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

>

> Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

>

>

Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new

spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to

denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season

of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the

ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

> Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should,

and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88 constellations.

Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

> One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the

same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

> ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Harimallaji,

> >  

> > You said

> >  

> > Quote

> >  

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.

> >  

> > Unquote

> >  

> > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know

that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These

seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

> >  

> > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The

great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

> >  

> > pulastya uvÄca

> > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||

> > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |

> > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||

> > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

> >  

> > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled

to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid

for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not

but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his

followers.

> >  

> > Sincerely,

> >  

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that

to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for

other names of months which are tropical?

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names

of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must

stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know

it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > Hari Malla

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > >  

> > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though

rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well

known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and

Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

> > >  

> > > Sincerely

> > >  

> > > SKB

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Recent Activity

> >

> >

> >  24

> > New Members

> >

> >  1

> > New FilesVisit Your Group

> >

> >

> >

> > Need traffic?

> > Drive customers

> > With search ads

> > on

> >

> >

> > Green

> > Make It Green

> > Share ideas that

> > better our planet

> >

> > Check out the

> > Y! Groups blog

> > Stay up to speed

> > on all things Groups!

> > .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Yes I admit i had not understood the translation of sanskrit as saying the

seasons move over the nakshyatras.But then what is so great about this simple

definition, a fact known to all concerned.The definition of sayan sankranti is

that it moves over the nakshyatras. Does this simple definition make any rule or

restriction on calender reform? It does not.It never prevented Barahmihir to

shift the niryan uttarayan from sun in dhanistha to makar sankranti.It will not

prevent us also from coordinating the sayan sankranti and niryan sankranti now.

Our present goal is to save our shastras from the error it has gone thrugh, due

to excessive ayanamsa.A simple definition of moving of tropical seasons over the

stars is virtually a simple statement of fact known since anitquity.

The problem of our calender reform is not a simple definiton of one of the

factors causing the problem but a carefull analysis and solution of the

problem.The present problem is that our dharma shastra has gone wrong. How to

correct it?

If you still think it is the stars that effects us and we have to retain the old

names, please try to answer my question which you have been always evading.Why

do the 76 concstellations not effect us and only 12 constellations effect us? If

you cannot answer this question then the retention of the names of the 12

constellations ie rashis is a wrong prejudice you are having.If you think it is

a right assumtion, then reply to my above question.

Make no more excuxes and be direct.

Thanking you.

Regards,

Hari Malla

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE

THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA

SAID.  I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S

PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY

ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION.  SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

THING. 

>  

>  

> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> harimalla <harimalla

> Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

>

> Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

>

>

Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new

spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to

denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season

of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the

ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

> Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should,

and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88 constellations.

Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

> One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the

same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

> ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Harimallaji,

> >  

> > You said

> >  

> > Quote

> >  

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.

> >  

> > Unquote

> >  

> > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know

that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These

seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

> >  

> > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The

great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

> >  

> > pulastya uvÄca

> > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||

> > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |

> > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||

> > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

> >  

> > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled

to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid

for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not

but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his

followers.

> >  

> > Sincerely,

> >  

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that

to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for

other names of months which are tropical?

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names

of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must

stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know

it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > Hari Malla

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > >  

> > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though

rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well

known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and

Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

> > >  

> > > Sincerely

> > >  

> > > SKB

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Recent Activity

> >

> >

> >  24

> > New Members

> >

> >  1

> > New FilesVisit Your Group

> >

> >

> >

> > Need traffic?

> > Drive customers

> > With search ads

> > on

> >

> >

> > Green

> > Make It Green

> > Share ideas that

> > better our planet

> >

> > Check out the

> > Y! Groups blog

> > Stay up to speed

> > on all things Groups!

> > .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have no intention to reply to your stupid arguments.

 

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

 

 

harimalla <harimalla

Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

 

Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:48 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Yes I admit i had not understood the translation of sanskrit as saying the

seasons move over the nakshyatras. But then what is so great about this simple

definition, a fact known to all concerned.The definition of sayan sankranti is

that it moves over the nakshyatras. Does this simple definition make any rule or

restriction on calender reform? It does not.It never prevented Barahmihir to

shift the niryan uttarayan from sun in dhanistha to makar sankranti.It will not

prevent us also from coordinating the sayan sankranti and niryan sankranti now.

Our present goal is to save our shastras from the error it has gone thrugh, due

to excessive ayanamsa.A simple definition of moving of tropical seasons over the

stars is virtually a simple statement of fact known since anitquity.

The problem of our calender reform is not a simple definiton of one of the

factors causing the problem but a carefull analysis and solution of the

problem.The present problem is that our dharma shastra has gone wrong. How to

correct it?

If you still think it is the stars that effects us and we have to retain the old

names, please try to answer my question which you have been always evading.Why

do the 76 concstellations not effect us and only 12 constellations effect us? If

you cannot answer this question then the retention of the names of the 12

constellations ie rashis is a wrong prejudice you are having.If you think it is

a right assumtion, then reply to my above question.

Make no more excuxes and be direct.

Thanking you.

Regards,

Hari Malla

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE

THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA

SAID.  I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S

PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY

ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION.  SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

THING. 

>  

>  

> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..>

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_

Sidereal_ Calendar

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

>

>

Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new

spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to

denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season

of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the

ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

> Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should,

and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88 constellations.

Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

> One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the

same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

> ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Harimallaji,

> >  

> > You said

> >  

> > Quote

> >  

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.

> >  

> > Unquote

> >  

> > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know

that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These

seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

> >  

> > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The

great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

> >  

> > pulastya uvÄca

> > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||

> > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |

> > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||

> > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

> >  

> > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled

to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid

for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not

but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his

followers.

> >  

> > Sincerely,

> >  

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that

to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for

other names of months which are tropical?

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names

of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must

stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know

it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > Hari Malla

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > >  

> > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though

rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well

known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and

Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

> > >  

> > > Sincerely

> > >  

> > > SKB

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Recent Activity

> >

> >

> >  24

> > New Members

> >

> >  1

> > New FilesVisit Your Group

> >

> >

> >

> > Need traffic?

> > Drive customers

> > With search ads

> > on

> >

> >

> > Green

> > Make It Green

> > Share ideas that

> > better our planet

> >

> > Check out the

> > Y! Groups blog

> > Stay up to speed

> > on all things Groups!

> > .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what Bhagavatam

says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and that is what our

Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent Nakshatras of the Rshis.

First learn the Shastras under a learned guru for a few years and then talk

about the shastras. In this group we are not discussing about Calendar reform.

Here the learned scholars are discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on

the Vedic literature. So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I

understand that even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.

 

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

 

 

harimalla <harimalla

Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

 

Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM

 

 

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well adored by the

overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower Bhagvatam by the quotation

of Pulastya.

Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on the effect

of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this question so you will do

some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but please say something by yoursself

or after consultation.

I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of your

quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the quotations,I can

guarantee you that no normal person will give so much importance to your

pulastya, as you have given, which you think is sufficient to challenge even the

continuity of the words of Bhagvatam. Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of

the masses, it is not a deciding factor at all.

It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over the

nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan sankranti, when

we try to define it. Does this simple statement or definition prohibit the

shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names of the rashis and nakshyatras to

maintain the dharma shastras always as they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan

sankranti and the nirayan sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch?

Has this definition stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from

the sun in dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your

mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by geniuses

like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to establish anything

on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a simple definition known to

all.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE

THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA

SAID.  I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S

PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY

ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION.  SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

THING. 

>  

>  

> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..>

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_

Sidereal_ Calendar

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

>

>

Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new

spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to

denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season

of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the

ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

> Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should,

and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88 constellations.

Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

> One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the

same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

> ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Harimallaji,

> >  

> > You said

> >  

> > Quote

> >  

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.

> >  

> > Unquote

> >  

> > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know

that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These

seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

> >  

> > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The

great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

> >  

> > pulastya uvÄca

> > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||

> > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |

> > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||

> > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

> >  

> > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled

to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid

for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not

but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his

followers.

> >  

> > Sincerely,

> >  

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that

to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for

other names of months which are tropical?

> > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think

if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call

kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will

be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names

of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must

stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know

it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > Hari Malla

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > >  

> > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though

rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well

known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and

Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

> > >  

> > > Sincerely

> > >  

> > > SKB

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Recent Activity

> >

> >

> >  24

> > New Members

> >

> >  1

> > New FilesVisit Your Group

> >

> >

> >

> > Need traffic?

> > Drive customers

> > With search ads

> > on

> >

> >

> > Green

> > Make It Green

> > Share ideas that

> > better our planet

> >

> > Check out the

> > Y! Groups blog

> > Stay up to speed

> > on all things Groups!

> > .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only 12 out of

88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild idea is only to

bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one represented by people like

you who would like to pay no attention to the seasonal value of the vedic months

like Madhu madhav and another like Mr AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and

the nirayan sytem.Unless you people come together in the line I have

proposed,our Hindu dharma will be weakened day by day due to your unending

quarrels.If you unite our Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your

in fightings we are doomed day by day.

I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for the lopsided

views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to be the heirs to

prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I say you have expressed

your incompetence again and again.But I do believe that a time will come when

sunlight will break through you both.Thank you and good bye.

Hari Malla

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what Bhagavatam

says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and that is what our

Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent Nakshatras of the Rshis.

First learn the Shastras under a learned guru for a few years and then talk

about the shastras. In this group we are not discussing about Calendar reform.

Here the learned scholars are discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on

the Vedic literature. So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I

understand that even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.

>

> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> harimalla <harimalla

> Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

>

> Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM

>

>

> Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well adored by

the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower Bhagvatam by the

quotation of Pulastya.

> Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on the

effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this question so you

will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but please say something by

yoursself or after consultation.

> I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of your

quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the quotations,I can

guarantee you that no normal person will give so much importance to your

pulastya, as you have given, which you think is sufficient to challenge even the

continuity of the words of Bhagvatam. Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of

the masses, it is not a deciding factor at all.

> It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over the

nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan sankranti, when

we try to define it. Does this simple statement or definition prohibit the

shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names of the rashis and nakshyatras to

maintain the dharma shastras always as they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan

sankranti and the nirayan sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch?

Has this definition stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from

the sun in dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your

mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by geniuses

like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to establish anything

on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a simple definition known to

all.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE

THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA

SAID.  I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S

PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY

ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION.  SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

THING. 

> >  

> >  

> > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the

new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to

denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season

of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the

ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

> > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations

should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88

constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

> > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are

the same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

> > Regards,

> > Hari Malla

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > >  

> > > You said

> > >  

> > > Quote

> > >  

> > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not

think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon

call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures

will be proved wrong.

> > >  

> > > Unquote

> > >  

> > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know

that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These

seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

> > >  

> > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances.

The great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

> > >  

> > > pulastya uvÄca

> > > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||

> > > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> > > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |

> > > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> > > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40

||

> > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||

> > > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna

|

> > > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||

> > >  

> > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be

compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably

gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is

correct or not but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails

of AKK and his followers.

> > >  

> > > Sincerely,

> > >  

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say

that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to

look for other names of months which are tropical?

> > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not

think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon

call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures

will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the

names of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you

must stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now

know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > > >  

> > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even

though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is

well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu

and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused

person.

> > > >  

> > > > Sincerely

> > > >  

> > > > SKB

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Recent Activity

> > >

> > >

> > >  24

> > > New Members

> > >

> > >  1

> > > New FilesVisit Your Group

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Need traffic?

> > > Drive customers

> > > With search ads

> > > on

> > >

> > >

> > > Green

> > > Make It Green

> > > Share ideas that

> > > better our planet

> > >

> > > Check out the

> > > Y! Groups blog

> > > Stay up to speed

> > > on all things Groups!

> > > .

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

dear hari wrestler ji pls stop all this non sense b4 u talk astrology stop mixing everything and learn what is astrology what is ur constellation ( the name ) has any thing to do with astrology ?? Do u know what is defenition of rasies first ,if u know u will not talk this nonsense ,of ram and wool theories pls stop this vituperation in the name of calender reform pls go ahed with ur kaulian calender ,who stop u frm making a calender ?? why u need all our electronic voting for it ?? all grps max may b 5lac memebrs ,and in astro grps may b 20000 ,i dont under stand ur mission by torturing and becoming like an eye sore to all when some discussions r going on .It will not even amnt to decency .u ppl pls make ur impossible calender first and then talk abt it technical perfection it is as simple as that my cook need not know how sambar vada is originated ,is it greek or chaldean contribution into south india and all that i expect him to make the best food and so long as he is perfect it is wat i considers u ppl r simply waisting others time even without doing perfect home work even if when u r shown rasies in veda or holi texts then some of u will say it is tropical then will say it is siderial then will say it is interpolation ,why all this intellectual torturing i dont know ,esp to astro learnerswho is not under pay frm any christian western elemnts and what they do is pursuing a hobby will u ask 64 Kama sutra position in some frnship grps ?? I request u to ask ur kaul muni to make own veda and purana and even vedic astrology and vedanga jyothisha of own for ur purpose and go ahed our blessing will b there so long as u ppl wont torture ( by misintrpreting vedas ) us and waist our time .pls spare us rgrds sunil nair , "harimalla" <harimalla wrote:>> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only 12 out of 88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild idea is only to bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one represented by people like you who would like to pay no attention to the seasonal value of the vedic months like Madhu madhav and another like Mr AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and the nirayan sytem.Unless you people come together in the line I have proposed,our Hindu dharma will be weakened day by day due to your unending quarrels.If you unite our Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your in fightings we are doomed day by day.> I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for the lopsided views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to be the heirs to prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I say you have expressed your incompetence again and again.But I do believe that a time will come when sunlight will break through you both.Thank you and good bye.> Hari Malla> > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:> >> > It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and that is what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent Nakshatras of the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru for a few years and then talk about the shastras. In this group we are not discussing about Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on the Vedic literature. So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I understand that even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.> > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ harimalla@ wrote:> > > > > > harimalla@ harimalla@> > Re: Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar> > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM> > > > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well adored by the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower Bhagvatam by the quotation of Pulastya.> > Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on the effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this question so you will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but please say something by yoursself or after consultation.> > I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of your quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the quotations,I can guarantee you that no normal person will give so much importance to your pulastya, as you have given, which you think is sufficient to challenge even the continuity of the words of Bhagvatam. Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of the masses, it is not a deciding factor at all.> > It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over the nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan sankranti, when we try to define it. Does this simple statement or definition prohibit the shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names of the rashis and nakshyatras to maintain the dharma shastras always as they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti and the nirayan sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this definition stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun in dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by geniuses like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to establish anything on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a simple definition known to all.> > Regards,> > Hari Malla> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > >> > > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING. DON"T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID. I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION. SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME THING. > > >  > > >  > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > >> > >> > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,> > > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.> > > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.> > > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.> > > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?> > > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the Bhagvatam?> > > Regards,> > > Hari Malla> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > >  > > > > You said> > > >  > > > > Quote> > > >  > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be proved wrong.> > > >  > > > > Unquote> > > >  > > > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.> > > >  > > > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:> > > >  > > > > pulastya uvÄca> > > > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |> > > > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||> > > > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |> > > > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||> > > > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |> > > > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||> > > > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> > > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||> > > > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |> > > > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||> > > > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca kesarÄ« |> > > > sÅ«ryaká¹£etraṃ vibhorbrahman há¹›dayaṃ parigÄ«yate || 5.35 ||> > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |> > > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitÄ«yaṃ jaá¹­haraṃ vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||> > > > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |> > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||> > > > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.38 ||> > > > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |> > > > Å«ruyugalamÄ«Å›asya amarará¹£e pragÄ«yate || 5.39 ||> > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |> > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||> > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |> > > > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||> > > > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ revatÄ« tathÄ |> > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||> > > > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |> > > > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43 ||> > > >  > > > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.> > > >  > > > > Sincerely,> > > >  > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?> > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.> > > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.> > > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any more.Please confirm.thanks,> > > > Hari Malla> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > >  > > > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.> > > > >  > > > > > Sincerely> > > > >  > > > > > SKB> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Recent Activity> > > >> > > >> > > >  24> > > > New Members> > > >> > > >  1> > > > New FilesVisit Your Group> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Need traffic?> > > > Drive customers> > > > With search ads> > > > on > > > >> > > >> > > > Green> > > > Make It Green> > > > Share ideas that> > > > better our planet> > > >> > > > Check out the> > > > Y! Groups blog> > > > Stay up to speed> > > > on all things Groups!> > > > .> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Nairji,

Shall I say you make very good jokes specially with your samabar vada concepts!

I enjoyoed it.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

 

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> dear hari wrestler ji

>

> pls stop all this non sense

>

> b4 u talk astrology stop mixing everything and learn what is astrology

>

> what is ur constellation ( the name ) has any thing to do with astrology

> ?? Do u know what is defenition of rasies first ,if u know u will not

> talk this nonsense ,of ram and wool theories

>

> pls stop this vituperation in the name of calender reform

>

> pls go ahed with ur kaulian calender ,who stop u frm making a calender

> ?? why u need all our electronic voting for it ?? all grps max

> may b 5lac memebrs ,and in astro grps may b 20000 ,i dont under stand

> ur mission by torturing and becoming like an eye sore to all when some

> discussions r going on .It will not even amnt to decency .

>

>

> u ppl pls make ur impossible calender first and then talk abt it

> technical perfection

>

> it is as simple as that

>

> my cook need not know how sambar vada is originated ,is it greek or

> chaldean contribution into south india and all that

>

> i expect him to make the best food and so long as he is perfect it is

> wat i considers

>

> u ppl r simply waisting others time even without doing perfect home work

>

> even if when u r shown rasies in veda or holi texts then some of u

> will say it is tropical then will say it is siderial then will say it is

> interpolation ,why all this intellectual torturing i dont know ,esp to

> astro learnerswho is not under pay frm any christian western elemnts and

> what they do is pursuing a hobby

>

> will u ask 64 Kama sutra position in some frnship grps ??

>

>

>

> I request u to ask ur kaul muni to make own veda and purana and even

> vedic astrology and vedanga jyothisha of own for ur purpose and go ahed

> our blessing will b there so long as u ppl wont torture ( by

> misintrpreting vedas ) us and waist our time .

>

> pls spare us

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

>

> , " harimalla@ "

> <harimalla@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only

> 12 out of 88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild

> idea is only to bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one

> represented by people like you who would like to pay no attention to the

> seasonal value of the vedic months like Madhu madhav and another like Mr

> AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and the nirayan sytem.Unless you

> people come together in the line I have proposed,our Hindu dharma will

> be weakened day by day due to your unending quarrels.If you unite our

> Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your in fightings we

> are doomed day by day.

> > I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for

> the lopsided views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to

> be the heirs to prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I

> say you have expressed your incompetence again and again.But I do

> believe that a time will come when sunlight will break through you

> both.Thank you and good bye.

> > Hari Malla

> >

> >

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> > >

> > > It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what

> Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and

> that is what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent

> Nakshatras of the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru

> for a few years and then talk about the shastras. In this group we are

> not discussing about Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are

> discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on the Vedic literature.

> So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I understand that

> even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ harimalla@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > harimalla@ harimalla@

> > > Re:

> Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

> > >

> > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > > Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well

> adored by the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower

> Bhagvatam by the quotation of Pulastya.

> > > Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on

> the effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this

> question so you will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but

> please say something by yoursself or after consultation.

> > > I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of

> your quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the

> quotations,I can guarantee you that no normal person will give so much

> importance to your pulastya, as you have given, which you think is

> sufficient to challenge even the continuity of the words of Bhagvatam.

> Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of the masses, it is not a

> deciding factor at all.

> > > It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over

> the nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan

> sankranti, when we try to define it. Does this simple statement or

> definition prohibit the shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names

> of the rashis and nakshyatras to maintain the dharma shastras always as

> they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti and the nirayan

> sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this definition

> stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun in

> dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your

> mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by

> geniuses like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to

> establish anything on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a

> simple definition known to all.

> > > Regards,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > >

> > > > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT

> UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A

> STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST

> TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID. I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN

> CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER

> ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO

> PRECESSION. SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

> THING.Â

> > > > Â

> > > > Â

> > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

> Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> > > > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to

> call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy

> to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to

> change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not

> say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do

> so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people would not like to

> let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the

> change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis

> of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> > > > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its

> wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be

> in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you

> will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you

> call being intelligent.

> > > > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below

> will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of

> the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original

> concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the summer

> soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of

> winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of

> the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form

> of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is

> their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> > > > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12

> constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out

> of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you

> have a reply for this?

> > > > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the

> nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the

> rashi are to be shifted the names of the nakshyatras also

> should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail

> of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the

> Bhagvatam?

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Hari Malla

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,

> sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > > > > Â

> > > > > You said

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Quote

> > > > > Â

> > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do

> you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will

> have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you

> think our scriptures will be proved wrong.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Unquote

> > > > > Â

> > > > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent

> enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time

> of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions

> and hence the Rashi positions.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all

> circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the RashisÂ

> as follows:

> > > > > Â

> > > > > pulastya uvÄca

> > > > > svarūpaṃ tripuraghnasya vadiṣye

> kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > > > > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ

> lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > > > > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī

> ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > > > > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ

> tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > > > > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman

> prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > > > > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ

> vadanaṃ parikīrtitam || 5.32 ||

> > > > >

> má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ

> saumyagṛhaṃ tvidam |

> > > > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ

> || 5.33 ||

> > > > > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca

> ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > > > > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve

> makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > > > > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca

> kesarī |

> > > > > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ

> parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ

> pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > > > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ

> vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > > > > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ

> svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ

> nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > > > > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ

> jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > > > > dvitīyaṃ vṛściko

> rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ ||

> 5.38 ||

> > > > > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca

> devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > > > > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39

> ||

> > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ

> śravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä

> jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä

> prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > > > > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca

> viśrute || 5.41 ||

> > > > > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ

> revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > > > > dvitīyaṃ jīvasadanaṃ mīnastu

> caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > > > > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro

> yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> > > > > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe

> saṃtasthau tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43

> ||

> > > > > Â

> > > > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but weÂ

> cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said

> that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not

> know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some

> mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_

> Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > > > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you

> not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you

> advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?

> > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do

> you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will

> have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you

> think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures

> right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same

> wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the

> stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > > > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as

> we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If

> we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true,

> otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick

> to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot

> have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > > > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused

> any more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > > > > Hari Malla

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi,

> even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed

> nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of

> the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta

> Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Sincerely

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > SKB

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Recent Activity

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Â 24

> > > > > New Members

> > > > >

> > > > > Â 1

> > > > > New FilesVisit Your Group

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> > > > > Need traffic?

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> > > > > With search ads

> > > > > on

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Green

> > > > > Make It Green

> > > > > Share ideas that

> > > > > better our planet

> > > > >

> > > > > Check out the

> > > > > Y! Groups blog

> > > > > Stay up to speed

> > > > > on all things Groups!

> > > > > .

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

dear hari malla ji here another proof that indian s copied everything frm west see the proof How our Yoga principle and Moksha concept s originated in west and the gr8 charlattan rishi pathanjali copied it Lord Budha and jaina were another charlattan and frauds those who dont disclosed they got all this frm west Yoga from the bottle.( Nirvana lessons frm pubs -old greek /chaldean text )

rgrds sunil nair , "harimalla" <harimalla wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nairji,> Shall I say you make very good jokes specially with your samabar vada concepts! I enjoyoed it.> Regards,> Hari Malla> > > , "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > dear hari wrestler ji> > > > pls stop all this non sense> > > > b4 u talk astrology stop mixing everything and learn what is astrology> > > > what is ur constellation ( the name ) has any thing to do with astrology> > ?? Do u know what is defenition of rasies first ,if u know u will not> > talk this nonsense ,of ram and wool theories> > > > pls stop this vituperation in the name of calender reform> > > > pls go ahed with ur kaulian calender ,who stop u frm making a calender> > ?? why u need all our electronic voting for it ?? all grps max> > may b 5lac memebrs ,and in astro grps may b 20000 ,i dont under stand> > ur mission by torturing and becoming like an eye sore to all when some> > discussions r going on .It will not even amnt to decency .> > > > > > u ppl pls make ur impossible calender first and then talk abt it> > technical perfection> > > > it is as simple as that> > > > my cook need not know how sambar vada is originated ,is it greek or> > chaldean contribution into south india and all that> > > > i expect him to make the best food and so long as he is perfect it is> > wat i considers> > > > u ppl r simply waisting others time even without doing perfect home work> > > > even if when u r shown rasies in veda or holi texts then some of u> > will say it is tropical then will say it is siderial then will say it is> > interpolation ,why all this intellectual torturing i dont know ,esp to> > astro learnerswho is not under pay frm any christian western elemnts and> > what they do is pursuing a hobby> > > > will u ask 64 Kama sutra position in some frnship grps ??> > > > > > > > I request u to ask ur kaul muni to make own veda and purana and even> > vedic astrology and vedanga jyothisha of own for ur purpose and go ahed> > our blessing will b there so long as u ppl wont torture ( by> > misintrpreting vedas ) us and waist our time .> > > > pls spare us> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > , "harimalla@"> > <harimalla@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only> > 12 out of 88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild> > idea is only to bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one> > represented by people like you who would like to pay no attention to the> > seasonal value of the vedic months like Madhu madhav and another like Mr> > AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and the nirayan sytem.Unless you> > people come together in the line I have proposed,our Hindu dharma will> > be weakened day by day due to your unending quarrels.If you unite our> > Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your in fightings we> > are doomed day by day.> > > I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for> > the lopsided views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to> > be the heirs to prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I> > say you have expressed your incompetence again and again.But I do> > believe that a time will come when sunlight will break through you> > both.Thank you and good bye.> > > Hari Malla> > >> > >> > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya> > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:> > > >> > > > It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what> > Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and> > that is what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent> > Nakshatras of the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru> > for a few years and then talk about the shastras. In this group we are> > not discussing about Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are> > discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on the Vedic literature.> > So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I understand that> > even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ harimalla@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > harimalla@ harimalla@> > > > Re:> > Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar> > > > > > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well> > adored by the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower> > Bhagvatam by the quotation of Pulastya.> > > > Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on> > the effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this> > question so you will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but> > please say something by yoursself or after consultation.> > > > I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of> > your quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the> > quotations,I can guarantee you that no normal person will give so much> > importance to your pulastya, as you have given, which you think is> > sufficient to challenge even the continuity of the words of Bhagvatam.> > Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of the masses, it is not a> > deciding factor at all.> > > > It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over> > the nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan> > sankranti, when we try to define it. Does this simple statement or> > definition prohibit the shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names> > of the rashis and nakshyatras to maintain the dharma shastras always as> > they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti and the nirayan> > sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this definition> > stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun in> > dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your> > mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by> > geniuses like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to> > establish anything on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a> > simple definition known to all.> > > > Regards,> > > > Hari Malla> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > >> > > > > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT> > UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A> > STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING. DON"T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST> > TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID. I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN> > CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER> > ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO> > PRECESSION. SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME> > THING.Â> > > > > Â> > > > > Â> > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_> > Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,> > > > > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to> > call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy> > to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to> > change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not> > say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do> > so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people would not like to> > let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the> > change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis> > of faith when the shastras are changed like this.> > > > > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its> > wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be> > in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you> > will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you> > call being intelligent.> > > > > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below> > will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of> > the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original> > concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the summer> > soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of> > winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of> > the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form> > of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is> > their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.> > > > > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12> > constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out> > of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you> > have a reply for this?> > > > > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the> > nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the> > rashi are to be shifted the names of the nakshyatras also> > should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail> > of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the> > Bhagvatam?> > > > > Regards,> > > > > Hari Malla> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > > > Â> > > > > > You said> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Quote> > > > > > Â> > > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do> > you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will> > have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you> > think our scriptures will be proved wrong.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Unquote> > > > > > Â> > > > > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent> > enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time> > of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions> > and hence the Rashi positions.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all> > circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the RashisÂ> > as follows:> > > > > > Â> > > > > > pulastya uvÄca> > > > > > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye> > kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |> > > > > > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ> > lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||> > > > > > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī> > ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |> > > > > > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ> > tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||> > > > > > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman> > prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |> > > > > > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ> > vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||> > > > > >> > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ> > saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> > > > > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ> > || 5.33 ||> > > > > > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca> > ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |> > > > > > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve> > makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||> > > > > > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca> > kesarÄ« |> > > > > > sÅ«ryaká¹£etraṃ vibhorbrahman há¹›dayaṃ> > parigÄ«yate || 5.35 ||> > > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ> > pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |> > > > > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitÄ«yaṃ jaá¹­haraṃ> > vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||> > > > > > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ> > svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |> > > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ> > nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||> > > > > > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ> > jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> > > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko> > rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ ||> > 5.38 ||> > > > > > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca> > devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |> > > > > > Å«ruyugalamÄ«Å›asya amarará¹£e pragÄ«yate || 5.39> > ||> > > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ> > Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |> > > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä> > jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||> > > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä> > prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |> > > > > > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca> > viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||> > > > > > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ> > revatÄ« tathÄ |> > > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu> > caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||> > > > > > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro> > yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |> > > > > > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe> > saṃtasthau tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43> > ||> > > > > > Â> > > > > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but weÂ> > cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said> > that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not> > know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some> > mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_> > Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you> > not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you> > advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?> > > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do> > you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will> > have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you> > think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures> > right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same> > wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the> > stars or to the names used in the scriptures.> > > > > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as> > we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If> > we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true,> > otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick> > to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot> > have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.> > > > > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused> > any more.Please confirm.thanks,> > > > > > Hari Malla> > > > > >> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi,> > even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed> > nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of> > the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta> > Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Sincerely> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > SKB> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Recent Activity> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >  24> > > > > > New Members> > > > > >> > > > > >  1> > > > > > New FilesVisit Your Group> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Need traffic?> > > > > > Drive customers> > > > > > With search ads> > > > > > on > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Green> > > > > > Make It Green> > > > > > Share ideas that> > > > > > better our planet> > > > > >> > > > > > Check out the> > > > > > Y! Groups blog> > > > > > Stay up to speed> > > > > > on all things Groups!> > > > > > .> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji,

 

I love this mail...ha ha.

 

blessings,

 

Renu

 

 

 

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> dear hari wrestler ji

>

> pls stop all this non sense

>

> b4 u talk astrology stop mixing everything and learn what is astrology

>

> what is ur constellation ( the name ) has any thing to do with astrology

> ?? Do u know what is defenition of rasies first ,if u know u will not

> talk this nonsense ,of ram and wool theories

>

> pls stop this vituperation in the name of calender reform

>

> pls go ahed with ur kaulian calender ,who stop u frm making a calender

> ?? why u need all our electronic voting for it ?? all grps max

> may b 5lac memebrs ,and in astro grps may b 20000 ,i dont under stand

> ur mission by torturing and becoming like an eye sore to all when some

> discussions r going on .It will not even amnt to decency .

>

>

> u ppl pls make ur impossible calender first and then talk abt it

> technical perfection

>

> it is as simple as that

>

> my cook need not know how sambar vada is originated ,is it greek or

> chaldean contribution into south india and all that

>

> i expect him to make the best food and so long as he is perfect it is

> wat i considers

>

> u ppl r simply waisting others time even without doing perfect home work

>

> even if when u r shown rasies in veda or holi texts then some of u

> will say it is tropical then will say it is siderial then will say it is

> interpolation ,why all this intellectual torturing i dont know ,esp to

> astro learnerswho is not under pay frm any christian western elemnts and

> what they do is pursuing a hobby

>

> will u ask 64 Kama sutra position in some frnship grps ??

>

>

>

> I request u to ask ur kaul muni to make own veda and purana and even

> vedic astrology and vedanga jyothisha of own for ur purpose and go ahed

> our blessing will b there so long as u ppl wont torture ( by

> misintrpreting vedas ) us and waist our time .

>

> pls spare us

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

>

> , " harimalla@ "

> <harimalla@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only

> 12 out of 88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild

> idea is only to bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one

> represented by people like you who would like to pay no attention to the

> seasonal value of the vedic months like Madhu madhav and another like Mr

> AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and the nirayan sytem.Unless you

> people come together in the line I have proposed,our Hindu dharma will

> be weakened day by day due to your unending quarrels.If you unite our

> Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your in fightings we

> are doomed day by day.

> > I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for

> the lopsided views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to

> be the heirs to prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I

> say you have expressed your incompetence again and again.But I do

> believe that a time will come when sunlight will break through you

> both.Thank you and good bye.

> > Hari Malla

> >

> >

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> > >

> > > It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what

> Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and

> that is what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent

> Nakshatras of the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru

> for a few years and then talk about the shastras. In this group we are

> not discussing about Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are

> discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on the Vedic literature.

> So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I understand that

> even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ harimalla@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > harimalla@ harimalla@

> > > Re:

> Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

> > >

> > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > > Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well

> adored by the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower

> Bhagvatam by the quotation of Pulastya.

> > > Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on

> the effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this

> question so you will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but

> please say something by yoursself or after consultation.

> > > I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of

> your quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the

> quotations,I can guarantee you that no normal person will give so much

> importance to your pulastya, as you have given, which you think is

> sufficient to challenge even the continuity of the words of Bhagvatam.

> Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of the masses, it is not a

> deciding factor at all.

> > > It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over

> the nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan

> sankranti, when we try to define it. Does this simple statement or

> definition prohibit the shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names

> of the rashis and nakshyatras to maintain the dharma shastras always as

> they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti and the nirayan

> sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this definition

> stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun in

> dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your

> mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by

> geniuses like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to

> establish anything on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a

> simple definition known to all.

> > > Regards,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > >

> > > > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT

> UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A

> STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST

> TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID. I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN

> CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER

> ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO

> PRECESSION. SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME

> THING.Â

> > > > Â

> > > > Â

> > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

> Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> > > > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to

> call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy

> to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to

> change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not

> say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do

> so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people would not like to

> let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the

> change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis

> of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> > > > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its

> wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be

> in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you

> will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you

> call being intelligent.

> > > > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below

> will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of

> the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original

> concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the summer

> soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of

> winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of

> the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form

> of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is

> their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> > > > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12

> constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out

> of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you

> have a reply for this?

> > > > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the

> nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the

> rashi are to be shifted the names of the nakshyatras also

> should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail

> of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the

> Bhagvatam?

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Hari Malla

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,

> sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > > > > Â

> > > > > You said

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Quote

> > > > > Â

> > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do

> you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will

> have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you

> think our scriptures will be proved wrong.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Unquote

> > > > > Â

> > > > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent

> enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time

> of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions

> and hence the Rashi positions.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all

> circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the RashisÂ

> as follows:

> > > > > Â

> > > > > pulastya uvÄca

> > > > > svarūpaṃ tripuraghnasya vadiṣye

> kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |

> > > > > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ

> lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||

> > > > > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī

> ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |

> > > > > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ

> tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > > > > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman

> prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |

> > > > > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ

> vadanaṃ parikīrtitam || 5.32 ||

> > > > >

> má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ

> saumyagṛhaṃ tvidam |

> > > > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ

> || 5.33 ||

> > > > > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca

> ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |

> > > > > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve

> makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > > > > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca

> kesarī |

> > > > > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ

> parigīyate || 5.35 ||

> > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ

> pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |

> > > > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ

> vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||

> > > > > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ

> svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ

> nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||

> > > > > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ

> jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |

> > > > > dvitīyaṃ vṛściko

> rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ ||

> 5.38 ||

> > > > > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca

> devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |

> > > > > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39

> ||

> > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ

> śravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä

> jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä

> prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |

> > > > > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca

> viśrute || 5.41 ||

> > > > > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ

> revatÄ« tathÄ |

> > > > > dvitīyaṃ jīvasadanaṃ mīnastu

> caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||

> > > > > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro

> yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |

> > > > > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe

> saṃtasthau tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43

> ||

> > > > > Â

> > > > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but weÂ

> cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said

> that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not

> know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some

> mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_

> Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > > > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you

> not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you

> advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?

> > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do

> you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will

> have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you

> think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures

> right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same

> wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the

> stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > > > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as

> we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If

> we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true,

> otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick

> to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot

> have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > > > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused

> any more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > > > > Hari Malla

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi,

> even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed

> nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of

> the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta

> Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Sincerely

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > SKB

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Recent Activity

> > > > >

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> > > > > New Members

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[Guest guest]

Good riddance

 

--- On Sat, 6/13/09, harimalla <harimalla wrote:

 

 

harimalla <harimalla

Re:

Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar

 

Saturday, June 13, 2009, 7:51 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only 12 out of

88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild idea is only to

bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one represented by people like

you who would like to pay no attention to the seasonal value of the vedic months

like Madhu madhav and another like Mr AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and

the nirayan sytem.Unless you people come together in the line I have

proposed,our Hindu dharma will be weakened day by day due to your unending

quarrels.If you unite our Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your

in fightings we are doomed day by day.

I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for the lopsided

views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to be the heirs to

prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I say you have expressed

your incompetence again and again.But I do believe that a time will come when

sunlight will break through you both.Thank you and good bye.

Hari Malla

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what

Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and that is

what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent Nakshatras of

the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru for a few years and

then talk about the shastras. In this group we are not discussing about

Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are discussing about ancient Indian

Astrology based on the Vedic literature. So please do not discuss calendar

reform with me here. I understand that even AKK does not agree with your wild

ideas.

>

> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..>

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_

Sidereal_ Calendar

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM

>

>

> Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well adored by

the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower Bhagvatam by the

quotation of Pulastya.

> Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on the

effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this question so you

will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but please say something by

yoursself or after consultation.

> I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of your

quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the quotations,I can

guarantee you that no normal person will give so much importance to your

pulastya, as you have given, which you think is sufficient to challenge even the

continuity of the words of Bhagvatam. Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of

the masses, it is not a deciding factor at all.

> It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over the

nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan sankranti, when

we try to define it. Does this simple statement or definition prohibit the

shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names of the rashis and nakshyatras to

maintain the dharma shastras always as they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan

sankranti and the nirayan sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch?

Has this definition stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from

the sun in dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your

mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by geniuses

like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to establish anything

on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a simple definition known to

all.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE

THING. DON " T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT

PULASTYA SAID.  I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE

TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL

HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO PRECESSION.  SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU

THE SAME THING. 

> >  

> >  

> > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,

> > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to call the

new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy to change the

wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to change all the wordings

concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not say it is impossible to do so.But

the intelligent people who agree to do so cannot be called as wise, because the

wise people would not like to let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned

people to acccept the change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too

much of a crisis of faith when the shastras are changed like this.

> > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its wool, to

denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be in the hot season

of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you will say the wool of the

ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you call being intelligent.

> > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below will be

maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of the seasons.The

rashis are all seasonal as per the original concept.Karkat is the experience of

the crab experienced at the summer soltice and Makar is the experience of the

crocodile at the time of winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much

before the shape of the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name

and the form of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us

is their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.

> > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12 constellations

should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out of total of 88

constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you have a reply for this?

> > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the nakshyatras are

the same circle and are to be tied together.When the rashi are to be shifted the

names of the nakshyatras also should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu

nakshyatras at the tail of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar

chakra in the Bhagvatam?

> > Regards,

> > Hari Malla

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > >  

> > > You said

> > >  

> > > Quote

> > >  

> > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not

think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon

call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures

will be proved wrong.

> > >  

> > > Unquote

> > >  

> > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent enough to know

that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time of  that writing. These

seasons can change their Nakshatra positions and hence the Rashi positions.

> > >  

> > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all circumstances.

The great sage  Pulastya defines the Rashis as follows:

> > >  

> > > pulastya uv�ca

> > > svarūpaṃ tripuraghnasya vadiṣye k�larūpiṇaḥ

|

> > > yen�mbaraṃ muniśreṣṭha vy�ptaṃ

lokahitepsun� || 5.30 ||

> > > yatr�śvinī ca bharaṇī

kṛttik�y�stath�ṃśakaḥ |

> > > meṣo r�śiḥ kujakṣetraṃ tacchiraḥ

k�larūpiṇaḥ || 5.31 ||

> > > �gney�ṃś�strayo brahman pr�j�patyaṃ

kavergá¹›ham |

> > > saumy�rddhaṃ vṛṣan�medaṃ vadanaṃ

parikīrtitam || 5.32 ||

> > > mṛg�rddham�rdr�dity�ṃś�strayaḥ

saumyagṛhaṃ tvidam |

> > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ || 5.33 ||

> > > �dity�ṃśaśca puṣyaṃ ca

�śleṣ� śaśino gṛham |

> > > r�śiḥ karkaṭako n�ma p�rśve

makhavin�śinaḥstha 5.34 ||

> > > pitryarkṣaṃ bhagadaivatyamuttar�ṃś ca kesarī |

> > > sūryakṣetraṃ vibhorbrahman hṛdayaṃ parigīyate

|| 5.35 ||

> > > uttar�ṃś�strayaḥ

p�ṇiścitr�rdhaṃ kanyak� tviyam |

> > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitīyaṃ jaṭharaṃ vibhoḥ ||

5.36 ||

> > > citr�ṃśadvitayaṃ

sv�tirviś�kh�y�ṃśakatrayam |

> > > dvitīyaṃ śukrasadanaṃ tul�

n�bhirud�hṛt� || 5.37 ||

> > > viś�kh�ṃśamanūr�dh� jyeṣṭh�

bhaumagṛhaṃ tvidam |

> > > dvitīyaṃ vṛściko r�śirme�hraṃ

k�lasavarūpiṇaḥ || 5.38 ||

> > > mūlaṃ pūrvottar�ṃśaśca

dev�c�ryagṛhaṃ dhanuḥ |

> > > ūruyugalamīśasya amararṣe pragīyate || 5.39 ||

> > > uttar�ṃś�strayo ṛkṣaṃ

śravaṇaṃ makaro mune |

> > > dhaniṣṭh�rdhaṃ śatabhiṣ� j�nunī

parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||

> > > dhaniṣṭh�rdhaṃ śatabhiṣ�

prauṣṭhapady�ṃśakatrayam |

> > > saureḥ sadm�paramidaṃ kumbho jaṅghe ca viśrute ||

5.41 ||

> > > proṣṭhapady�ṃśamekaṃ tu uttar� revatī

tath� |

> > > dvitīyaṃ jīvasadanaṃ mīnastu caraṇ�vubhau ||

5.42 ||

> > > evaṃ kṛtv� k�larūpaṃ trinetro yajñaṃ

krodh�nm�rgar�jagh�na |

> > > viddhaśc�sau vedan�buddhimuktaḥ khe saṃtasthau

t�rak�bhiścit�ṅgaḥ || 5.43 ||

> > >  

> > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but we cannot be

compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said that AKK probably

gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not know whether that is

correct or not but there is definitely some mystery behind the

perverted mails of AKK and his followers.

> > >  

> > > Sincerely,

> > >  

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_

Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

> > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you not say

that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you advise him to

look for other names of months which are tropical?

> > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do you not

think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will have to soon

call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you think our scriptures

will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures right, we have to change the

names of the stars to maintain the same wordings of the scriptures.Either you

must stick to the old names of the stars or to the names used in the scriptures.

> > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as we now

know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If we now call

mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true, otherewise our

scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick to your scriptural

wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot have both.It is a hard

decision to make.But there is no time for delay.

> > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused any

more.Please confirm.thanks,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Harimallaji,

> > > >  

> > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi, even

though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed nakshatras? It

is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of the Sishira Ritu and

Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta Ritu. You are a thoroughly

confused person.

> > > >  

> > > > Sincerely

> > > >  

> > > > SKB

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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[Guest guest]

Dear Renu ji Thanks for the mail It was some weekend humor at the expense of shri Hari malla ji who wants to change calender no matter or what ever may happen even he dont know how and why ,it is a phycological disorder who ever has slave mentality ,u can see every where ppl wants changes and even they dont know then what ? NO model they hav in hand to propose .rgrds sunil nair , "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji,> > I love this mail...ha ha.> > blessings,> > Renu> > > > , "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > dear hari wrestler ji> > > > pls stop all this non sense> > > > b4 u talk astrology stop mixing everything and learn what is astrology> > > > what is ur constellation ( the name ) has any thing to do with astrology> > ?? Do u know what is defenition of rasies first ,if u know u will not> > talk this nonsense ,of ram and wool theories> > > > pls stop this vituperation in the name of calender reform> > > > pls go ahed with ur kaulian calender ,who stop u frm making a calender> > ?? why u need all our electronic voting for it ?? all grps max> > may b 5lac memebrs ,and in astro grps may b 20000 ,i dont under stand> > ur mission by torturing and becoming like an eye sore to all when some> > discussions r going on .It will not even amnt to decency .> > > > > > u ppl pls make ur impossible calender first and then talk abt it> > technical perfection> > > > it is as simple as that> > > > my cook need not know how sambar vada is originated ,is it greek or> > chaldean contribution into south india and all that> > > > i expect him to make the best food and so long as he is perfect it is> > wat i considers> > > > u ppl r simply waisting others time even without doing perfect home work> > > > even if when u r shown rasies in veda or holi texts then some of u> > will say it is tropical then will say it is siderial then will say it is> > interpolation ,why all this intellectual torturing i dont know ,esp to> > astro learnerswho is not under pay frm any christian western elemnts and> > what they do is pursuing a hobby> > > > will u ask 64 Kama sutra position in some frnship grps ??> > > > > > > > I request u to ask ur kaul muni to make own veda and purana and even> > vedic astrology and vedanga jyothisha of own for ur purpose and go ahed> > our blessing will b there so long as u ppl wont torture ( by> > misintrpreting vedas ) us and waist our time .> > > > pls spare us> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > , "harimalla@"> > <harimalla@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only> > 12 out of 88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild> > idea is only to bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one> > represented by people like you who would like to pay no attention to the> > seasonal value of the vedic months like Madhu madhav and another like Mr> > AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and the nirayan sytem.Unless you> > people come together in the line I have proposed,our Hindu dharma will> > be weakened day by day due to your unending quarrels.If you unite our> > Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your in fightings we> > are doomed day by day.> > > I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for> > the lopsided views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to> > be the heirs to prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I> > say you have expressed your incompetence again and again.But I do> > believe that a time will come when sunlight will break through you> > both.Thank you and good bye.> > > Hari Malla> > >> > >> > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya> > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:> > > >> > > > It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what> > Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and> > that is what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent> > Nakshatras of the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru> > for a few years and then talk about the shastras. In this group we are> > not discussing about Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are> > discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on the Vedic literature.> > So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I understand that> > even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ harimalla@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > harimalla@ harimalla@> > > > Re:> > Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar> > > > > > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well> > adored by the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower> > Bhagvatam by the quotation of Pulastya.> > > > Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on> > the effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this> > question so you will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you like, but> > please say something by yoursself or after consultation.> > > > I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of> > your quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the> > quotations,I can guarantee you that no normal person will give so much> > importance to your pulastya, as you have given, which you think is> > sufficient to challenge even the continuity of the words of Bhagvatam.> > Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of the masses, it is not a> > deciding factor at all.> > > > It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over> > the nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan> > sankranti, when we try to define it. Does this simple statement or> > definition prohibit the shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names> > of the rashis and nakshyatras to maintain the dharma shastras always as> > they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti and the nirayan> > sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this definition> > stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun in> > dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your> > mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by> > geniuses like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to> > establish anything on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a> > simple definition known to all.> > > > Regards,> > > > Hari Malla> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > >> > > > > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT> > UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A> > STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING. DON"T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST> > TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID. I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN> > CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER> > ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO> > PRECESSION. SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME> > THING.Â> > > > > Â> > > > > Â> > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_> > Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,> > > > > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to> > call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy> > to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to> > change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not> > say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do> > so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people would not like to> > let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the> > change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis> > of faith when the shastras are changed like this.> > > > > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its> > wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be> > in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you> > will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you> > call being intelligent.> > > > > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below> > will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of> > the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original> > concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the summer> > soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of> > winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of> > the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form> > of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is> > their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.> > > > > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12> > constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out> > of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you> > have a reply for this?> > > > > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the> > nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the> > rashi are to be shifted the names of the nakshyatras also> > should.Otherwise how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail> > of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the> > Bhagvatam?> > > > > Regards,> > > > > Hari Malla> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > > > Â> > > > > > You said> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Quote> > > > > > Â> > > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do> > you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will> > have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you> > think our scriptures will be proved wrong.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Unquote> > > > > > Â> > > > > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent> > enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time> > of that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions> > and hence the Rashi positions.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all> > circumstances. The great sage Pulastya defines the RashisÂ> > as follows:> > > > > > Â> > > > > > pulastya uvÄca> > > > > > svarÅ«paṃ tripuraghnasya vadiá¹£ye> > kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ |> > > > > > yenÄmbaraṃ muniÅ›reṣṭha vyÄptaṃ> > lokahitepsunÄ || 5.30 ||> > > > > > yatrÄÅ›vinÄ« ca bharaṇī> > ká¹›ttikÄyÄstathÄṃśakaḥ |> > > > > > meá¹£o rÄÅ›iḥ kujaká¹£etraṃ> > tacchiraḥ kÄlarÅ«piṇaḥ || 5.31 ||> > > > > > ÄgneyÄṃśÄstrayo brahman> > prÄjÄpatyaṃ kavergá¹›ham |> > > > > > saumyÄrddhaṃ vṛṣanÄmedaṃ> > vadanaṃ parikÄ«rtitam || 5.32 ||> > > > > >> > má¹›gÄrddhamÄrdrÄdityÄṃśÄstrayaḥ> > saumyagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> > > > > > mithunaṃ bhujayostadasya gaganasthasya śūlinaḥ> > || 5.33 ||> > > > > > ÄdityÄṃśaÅ›ca puá¹£yaṃ ca> > ÄÅ›leá¹£Ä Å›aÅ›ino gá¹›ham |> > > > > > rÄÅ›iḥ karkaá¹­ako nÄma pÄrÅ›ve> > makhavinÄÅ›inaḥstha 5.34 ||> > > > > > pitryarká¹£aṃ bhagadaivatyamuttarÄṃś ca> > kesarÄ« |> > > > > > sÅ«ryaká¹£etraṃ vibhorbrahman há¹›dayaṃ> > parigÄ«yate || 5.35 ||> > > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayaḥ> > pÄṇiÅ›citrÄrdhaṃ kanyakÄ tviyam |> > > > > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitÄ«yaṃ jaá¹­haraṃ> > vibhoḥ || 5.36 ||> > > > > > citrÄṃśadvitayaṃ> > svÄtirviÅ›ÄkhÄyÄṃśakatrayam |> > > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ Å›ukrasadanaṃ tulÄ> > nÄbhirudÄhá¹›tÄ || 5.37 ||> > > > > > viÅ›ÄkhÄṃśamanÅ«rÄdhÄ> > jyeṣṭhÄ bhaumagá¹›haṃ tvidam |> > > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ vṛściko> > rÄÅ›irmeá¸hraṃ kÄlasavarÅ«piṇaḥ ||> > 5.38 ||> > > > > > mÅ«laṃ pÅ«rvottarÄṃśaÅ›ca> > devÄcÄryagá¹›haṃ dhanuḥ |> > > > > > Å«ruyugalamÄ«Å›asya amarará¹£e pragÄ«yate || 5.39> > ||> > > > > > uttarÄṃśÄstrayo á¹›ká¹£aṃ> > Å›ravaṇaṃ makaro mune |> > > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä> > jÄnunÄ« parameṣṭhinaḥ || 5.40 ||> > > > > > dhaniṣṭhÄrdhaṃ Å›atabhiá¹£Ä> > prauṣṭhapadyÄṃśakatrayam |> > > > > > saureḥ sadmÄparamidaṃ kumbho jaá¹…ghe ca> > viÅ›rute || 5.41 ||> > > > > > proṣṭhapadyÄṃśamekaṃ tu uttarÄ> > revatÄ« tathÄ |> > > > > > dvitÄ«yaṃ jÄ«vasadanaṃ mÄ«nastu> > caraṇÄvubhau || 5.42 ||> > > > > > evaṃ ká¹›tvÄ kÄlarÅ«paṃ trinetro> > yajñaṃ krodhÄnmÄrgarÄjaghÄna |> > > > > > viddhaÅ›cÄsau vedanÄbuddhimuktaḥ khe> > saṃtasthau tÄrakÄbhiÅ›citÄá¹…gaḥ || 5.43> > ||> > > > > > Â> > > > > > You can follow the footsteps of your mentor AKK but weÂ> > cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said> > that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not> > know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some> > mystery behind the perverted mails of AKK and his followers.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_> > Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you> > not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you> > advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?> > > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do> > you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will> > have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you> > think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures> > right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same> > wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the> > stars or to the names used in the scriptures.> > > > > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as> > we now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If> > we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true,> > otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick> > to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot> > have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.> > > > > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused> > any more.Please confirm.thanks,> > > > > > Hari Malla> > > > > >> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Are you not the same person who was talking of shifting rashi,> > even though rashis are by definition groups of nine padas of fixed> > nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of> > the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta> > Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Sincerely> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > SKB> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Recent Activity> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >  24> > > > > > New Members> > > > > >> > > > > >  1> > > > > > New FilesVisit Your Group> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Need traffic?> > > > > > Drive customers> > > > > > With search ads> > > > > > on > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Green> > > > > > Make It Green> > > > > > Share ideas that> > > > > > better our planet> > > > > >> > > > > > Check out the> > > > > > Y! Groups blog> > > > > > Stay up to speed> > > > > > on all things Groups!> > > > > > .> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Nairji,

 

I have given the verses spoken by Pulastya who clearly says that the Rashis are composed of the fixed Nakshatras and yet Hari-wrestler wants to change them. We Hindus are tolerant and that is why he can dare to say so. Even AKK also insists that the Rashis are Tropical and says that Rashis have no relation with the Nakshatras, though Pulastya makes it very clear that the Rashis are Sidereal. In fact the Purana has also given the directions for the Soli-Lunar Sidereal calendar, according to which, for example, the Lunar month will be Magha when the Sun is in the Makara Rashi. These people do not understand shastras and yet talks about shastra.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 6/13/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Re: Rashi_Vedic_Literature_Chronology_Sidereal_Calendar Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 11:51 PM

 

 

Dear Renu ji Thanks for the mail It was some weekend humor at the expense of shri Hari malla ji who wants to change calender no matter or what ever may happen even he dont know how and why ,it is a phycological disorder who ever has slave mentality ,u can see every where ppl wants changes and even they dont know then what ? NO model they hav in hand to propose .rgrds sunil nair ancient_indian_ astrology, "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji,> > I love this mail...ha ha.> > blessings,> > Renu> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > dear hari wrestler ji> > > > pls stop

all this non sense> > > > b4 u talk astrology stop mixing everything and learn what is astrology> > > > what is ur constellation ( the name ) has any thing to do with astrology> > ?? Do u know what is defenition of rasies first ,if u know u will not> > talk this nonsense ,of ram and wool theories> > > > pls stop this vituperation in the name of calender reform> > > > pls go ahed with ur kaulian calender ,who stop u frm making a calender> > ?? why u need all our electronic voting for it ?? all grps max> > may b 5lac memebrs ,and in astro grps may b 20000 ,i dont under stand> > ur mission by torturing and becoming like an eye sore to all when some> > discussions r going on .It will not even amnt to decency .> > > > > > u ppl pls make ur impossible calender first and then talk abt

it> > technical perfection> > > > it is as simple as that> > > > my cook need not know how sambar vada is originated ,is it greek or> > chaldean contribution into south india and all that> > > > i expect him to make the best food and so long as he is perfect it is> > wat i considers> > > > u ppl r simply waisting others time even without doing perfect home work> > > > even if when u r shown rasies in veda or holi texts then some of u> > will say it is tropical then will say it is siderial then will say it is> > interpolation ,why all this intellectual torturing i dont know ,esp to> > astro learnerswho is not under pay frm any christian western elemnts and> > what they do is pursuing a hobby> > > > will u ask 64 Kama sutra position in some frnship grps ??> >

> > > > > > I request u to ask ur kaul muni to make own veda and purana and even> > vedic astrology and vedanga jyothisha of own for ur purpose and go ahed> > our blessing will b there so long as u ppl wont torture ( by> > misintrpreting vedas ) us and waist our time .> > > > pls spare us> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "harimalla@"> > <harimalla@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > Thank you for your smart reply to evade the question, as to why only> > 12 out of 88 constellations are taken in astrology? My so called wild> > idea is only to bring together two factions of the Hindu society, one> > represented by people like you who would like to pay no attention

to the> > seasonal value of the vedic months like Madhu madhav and another like Mr> > AK Kaul who want to remove the rashis and the nirayan sytem.Unless you> > people come together in the line I have proposed,our Hindu dharma will> > be weakened day by day due to your unending quarrels.If you unite our> > Dharma can conquer the world,but if you continue your in fightings we> > are doomed day by day.> > > I expect no reply from you.But I do hold you people responsible for> > the lopsided views and antivedic attitudes.I feel you do not deserve to> > be the heirs to prophets like Barahmihir and shastras like Bhagvatam. I> > say you have expressed your incompetence again and again.But I do> > believe that a time will come when sunlight will break through you> > both.Thank you and good bye.> > > Hari Malla> >

>> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya> > sunil_bhattacharjya @ wrote:> > > >> > > > It is idiotic to say that what Pulastya said is different from what> > Bhagavatam says. Rashies are the diferent angas of the Kalapurusha and> > that is what our Dharmashasatra says. Nobody can change the constituent> > Nakshatras of the Rshis. First learn the Shastras under a learned guru> > for a few years and then talk about the shastras. In this group we are> > not discussing about Calendar reform. Here the learned scholars are> > discussing about ancient Indian Astrology based on the Vedic literature.> > So please do not discuss calendar reform with me here. I understand that> > even AKK does not agree with your wild ideas.> > > >> > > > ---

On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ harimalla@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > harimalla@ harimalla@> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:> > Rashi_Vedic_ Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 9:22 AM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > Pulastya is no dharma shastri.But Bhagvatam is dharma shastra well> > adored by the overwhelming masses.So do not think you can overpower> > Bhagvatam by the quotation of Pulastya.> > > > Why an inteligent person like you always try to evade my question on> > the effect of the other 76 constellations of stars. I repeat this> > question so you will do some hard thinking.Say what ever you

like, but> > please say something by yoursself or after consultation.> > > > I have no sanskrit background.SO thank you for giving the meaning of> > your quotation.But now, since you have said the meaning of the> > quotations,I can guarantee you that no normal person will give so much> > importance to your pulastya, as you have given, which you think is> > sufficient to challenge even the continuity of the words of Bhagvatam.> > Thus in my view, and from the viewpoint of the masses, it is not a> > deciding factor at all.> > > > It is a simple fact known to all concerned that seasons move over> > the nakshyatras. In fact that alone is the definition of the sayan> > sankranti, when we try to define it. Does this simple statement or> > definition prohibit the shifting of the nirayan sankranti and the names> > of the

rashis and nakshyatras to maintain the dharma shastras always as> > they are.Does it prohibit that the sayan sankranti and the nirayan> > sankranti should be coordinated from epoch to epoch? Has this definition> > stopped Barahmihir from shifting the nirayan uttarayan from the sun in> > dhanistha to makar sankranti? Of course not.Then what value has your> > mentioning the quotation now when it has been violated in the past by> > geniuses like Barahmihir.Please do not give such simple definition to> > establish anything on calender reform.You are expecting too much from a> > simple definition known to all.> > > > Regards,> > > > Hari Malla> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > >>

> > > > YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING. IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT> > UNDERSTAND SANSKRIT. YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN A> > STRAIGHTFORWAR SIMPLE THING.ย DON"T MAKE YOUR WILD ASSUMPTIONS. FIRST> > TRY TOย UNDERSTAND WHAT PULASTYA SAID.ย I SAID THAT SEASONS CAN> > CHANGE THEIR NAKSHATRA POSITIONS DUE TO EARTH'S PRECESSION. WHETHER> > ANYBODY ACCEPTS IT OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL. IT WILL HAPPEN BY ITSELF DUE TO> > PRECESSION.ย SO MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THE SAME> > THING.ย> > > > > ย> > > > > ย> > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_

Literature_> > Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > Friday, June 12, 2009, 3:53 AM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Bhatacharjyaji,> > > > > Thank you for your quck reply.I understand that you are ready to> > call the new spring season as kumbha and meen.You feel it would be easy> > to change the wordings in Bhagvatam too.Are we to set a team of men to> > change all the wordings concerned in our dharma shastras? I would not> > say it is impossible to do so.But the intelligent people who agree to do> > so cannot be called as wise, because the wise people

would not like to> > let the masses suffer.It is easy for the learned people to acccept the> > change, but for the ignorant believers, it will be too much of a crisis> > of faith when the shastras are changed like this.> > > > > What will happen also to the original concept of the Ram and its> > wool, to denote the coming of warm spring.The Ram or mesh will then be> > in the hot season of grishma instead of the warm spring.Then perhaps you> > will say the wool of the ram has caught fire , so it is hot.This you> > call being intelligent.> > > > > Please understand that the validity of your quotation as below> > will be maintained only if you change the names along with the shift of> > the seasons.The rashis are all seasonal as per the original> > concept.Karkat is the experience of the crab experienced at the

summer> > soltice and Makar is the experience of the crocodile at the time of> > winter solstice.The seasons effect us first, much before the shape of> > the stars. So please shake off the attachment to the name and the form> > of the stars.The only characteristics of the stars which serve us is> > their fixedness. Otherwise they effects us in no other way.> > > > > If the shapes of the stars effected us why only the 12> > constellations should, and not the stars of other 76 contellations out> > of total of 88 constellations. Have you ever thought of this and do you> > have a reply for this?> > > > > One thing we both seem to agree is that the rashis and the> > nakshyatras are the same circle and are to be tied together.When the> > rashi are to be shifted the names of the nakshyatras also> > should.Otherwise

how do we keep the punarvashu nakshyatras at the tail> > of the uttrayan nakshyatra as mentioned in the sishumar chakra in the> > Bhagvatam?> > > > > Regards,> > > > > Hari Malla> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > > > ย> > > > > > You said> > > > > > ย> > > > > > Quote> > > > > > ย> > > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do> > you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will> > have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you> > think our scriptures will be proved wrong.>

> > > > > ย> > > > > > Unquote> > > > > > ย> > > > > > No. Because our ancestors knew that we will be intelligent> > enough to know that Meen and Mesh was the Spring season at the time> > ofย that writing. These seasons can change their Nakshatra positions> > and hence theย Rashi positions.> > > > > > ย> > > > > > We have always to follow the definion of Rashi under all> > circumstances. The great sageย Pulastyaย defines the Rashisย> > as follows:> > > > > > ย> > > > > > pulastya uvฤ�ca> > > > > > svarลซpaà¹à¸™ï¿½ tripuraghnasya vadià¹à¸™à¸ƒye> > kฤ�larลซpià¹à¸™ï¿½aà¹à¸˜à¸… |> > > > > > yenฤ�mbaraà¹à¸™ï¿½ muniล�reà¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸ha

vyฤ�ptaà¹à¸™ï¿½> > lokahitepsunฤ� || 5.30 ||> > > > > > yatrฤ�ล�vinฤซ ca bharaà¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¤à¸‹> > kà¹à¸™ï¿½ttikฤ�yฤ�stathฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½akaà¹à¸˜à¸… |> > > > > > meà¹à¸™à¸ƒo rฤ�ล�ià¹à¸˜à¸… kujakà¹à¸™à¸ƒetraà¹à¸™ï¿½> > tacchiraà¹à¸˜à¸… kฤ�larลซpià¹à¸™ï¿½aà¹à¸˜à¸… || 5.31 ||> > > > > > ฤ�gneyฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½à¸¤ï¿½strayo brahman> > prฤ�jฤ�patyaà¹à¸™ï¿½ kavergà¹à¸™ï¿½ham |> > > > > > saumyฤ�rddhaà¹à¸™ï¿½ và¹à¸™ï¿½à¹à¸™à¸ƒanฤ�medaà¹à¸™ï¿½> > vadanaà¹à¸™ï¿½ parikฤซrtitam || 5.32 ||> > > > > >> > mà¹à¸™ï¿½gฤ�rddhamฤ�rdrฤ�dityฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½à¸¤ï¿½strayaà¹à¸˜à¸…> > saumyagà¹à¸™ï¿½haà¹à¸™ï¿½ tvidam |> > > > > > mithunaà¹à¸™ï¿½ bhujayostadasya

gaganasthasya ล�ลซlinaà¹à¸˜à¸…> > || 5.33 ||> > > > > > ฤ�dityฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½aล�ca puà¹à¸™à¸ƒyaà¹à¸™ï¿½ ca> > ฤ�ล�leà¹à¸™à¸ƒà¸¤ï¿½ ล�aล�ino gà¹à¸™ï¿½ham |> > > > > > rฤ�ล�ià¹à¸˜à¸… karkaà¹à¸™à¸ako nฤ�ma pฤ�rล�ve> > makhavinฤ�ล�inaà¹à¸˜à¸…stha 5.34 ||> > > > > > pitryarkà¹à¸™à¸ƒaà¹à¸™ï¿½ bhagadaivatyamuttarฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½ ca> > kesarฤซ |> > > > > > sลซryakà¹à¸™à¸ƒetraà¹à¸™ï¿½ vibhorbrahman hà¹à¸™ï¿½dayaà¹à¸™ï¿½> > parigฤซyate || 5.35 ||> > > > > > uttarฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½à¸¤ï¿½strayaà¹à¸˜à¸…> > pฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½iล�citrฤ�rdhaà¹à¸™ï¿½ kanyakฤ� tviyam |> > > > > > somaputrasya sadmaitad dvitฤซyaà¹à¸™ï¿½ jaà¹à¸™à¸haraà¹à¸™ï¿½> >

vibhoà¹à¸˜à¸… || 5.36 ||> > > > > > citrฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½advitayaà¹à¸™ï¿½> > svฤ�tirviล�ฤ�khฤ�yฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½akatrayam |> > > > > > dvitฤซyaà¹à¸™ï¿½ ล�ukrasadanaà¹à¸™ï¿½ tulฤ�> > nฤ�bhirudฤ�hà¹à¸™ï¿½tฤ� || 5.37 ||> > > > > > viล�ฤ�khฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½amanลซrฤ�dhฤ�> > jyeà¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸hฤ� bhaumagà¹à¸™ï¿½haà¹à¸™ï¿½ tvidam |> > > > > > dvitฤซyaà¹à¸™ï¿½ và¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½ciko> > rฤ�ล�irmeà¹à¸˜ï¿½hraà¹à¸™ï¿½ kฤ�lasavarลซpià¹à¸™ï¿½aà¹à¸˜à¸… ||> > 5.38 ||> > > > > > mลซlaà¹à¸™ï¿½ pลซrvottarฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½aล�ca> > devฤ�cฤ�ryagà¹à¸™ï¿½haà¹à¸™ï¿½ dhanuà¹à¸˜à¸… |> > > > > > ลซruyugalamฤซล�asya amararà¹à¸™à¸ƒe pragฤซyate

|| 5.39> > ||> > > > > > uttarฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½à¸¤ï¿½strayo à¹à¸™ï¿½kà¹à¸™à¸ƒaà¹à¸™ï¿½> > ล�ravaà¹à¸™ï¿½aà¹à¸™ï¿½ makaro mune |> > > > > > dhanià¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸hฤ�rdhaà¹à¸™ï¿½ ล�atabhià¹à¸™à¸ƒà¸¤ï¿½> > jฤ�nunฤซ parameà¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸hinaà¹à¸˜à¸… || 5.40 ||> > > > > > dhanià¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸hฤ�rdhaà¹à¸™ï¿½ ล�atabhià¹à¸™à¸ƒà¸¤ï¿½> > prauà¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸hapadyฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½akatrayam |> > > > > > saureà¹à¸˜à¸… sadmฤ�paramidaà¹à¸™ï¿½ kumbho jaà¹à¸™â€¦ghe ca> > viล�rute || 5.41 ||> > > > > > proà¹à¸™à¸ƒà¹à¸™à¸hapadyฤ�à¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¥ï¿½amekaà¹à¸™ï¿½ tu uttarฤ�> > revatฤซ tathฤ� |> > > > > > dvitฤซyaà¹à¸™ï¿½ jฤซvasadanaà¹à¸™ï¿½ mฤซnastu> > caraà¹à¸™ï¿½à¸¤ï¿½vubhau ||

5.42 ||> > > > > > evaà¹à¸™ï¿½ kà¹à¸™ï¿½tvฤ� kฤ�larลซpaà¹à¸™ï¿½ trinetro> > yajรฑaà¹à¸™ï¿½ krodhฤ�nmฤ�rgarฤ�jaghฤ�na |> > > > > > viddhaล�cฤ�sau vedanฤ�buddhimuktaà¹à¸˜à¸… khe> > saà¹à¸™ï¿½tasthau tฤ�rakฤ�bhiล�citฤ�à¹à¸™â€¦gaà¹à¸˜à¸… || 5.43> > ||> > > > > > ย> > > > > > You can follow theย footsteps of your mentor AKK but weย> > cannot be compelled to go against our Dharma. Sometime back someone said> > that AKK probably gets paid for the anti-Hindu mails he sends. I do not> > know whether that is correct or not but there is definitely some> > mysteryย behind the pervertedย mails of AKK and his followers.> > > > > > ย> > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > >

ย> > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>> > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Rashi_Vedic_> > Literature_ Chronology_ Sidereal_ Calendar> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:55 AM> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear

Bhattacharjyaji,> > > > > > Although you think the months mentioned are tropical why do you> > not say that to Shreenadhji who thinks them to be sidereal. Why do you> > advise him to look for other names of months which are tropical?> > > > > > When our scriptures talk of meen and mesh as spring season, do> > you not think if we do not shift the names as I have suggested, we will> > have to soon call kumbha and meen as spring.When that occurs, don't you> > think our scriptures will be proved wrong.Thus to make our scriptures> > right, we have to change the names of the stars to maintain the same> > wordings of the scriptures.Either you must stick to the old names of the> > stars or to the names used in the scriptures.> > > > > > For example, Bhagvat says uttarayan starts from pushya, where as> > we

now know it no more starts there, but from mrigashira nakshyatra.If> > we now call mirgashira as pushya, then our scriptures becomes true,> > otherewise our scriptures become false. So what do you prefer to stick> > to your scriptural wordings or to the old names of the stars? You cannot> > have both.It is a hard decision to make.But there is no time for delay.> > > > > > Hope you now understand what I am trying to say and not confused> > any more.Please confirm.thanks,> > > > > > Hari Malla> > > > > >> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > > > > ย> > > > > > > Are you not

the same person who was talking of shifting rashi,> > even though rashis are by definition groups ofย nine padas of fixed> > nakshatras? It is well known that Tapa and Tapashya are the months of> > the Sishira Ritu and Madhu and Madhava are the months of the Vasanta> > Ritu. You are a thoroughly confused person.> > > > > > > ย> > > > > > > Sincerely> > > > > > > ย> > > > > > > SKB> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Recent Activity> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ย 24> > > > > > New Members> > > > > >> > > > > >

ย 1> > > > > > New FilesVisit Your Group> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Need traffic?> > > > > > Drive customers> > > > > > With search ads> > > > > > on > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Green> > > > > > Make It Green> > > > > > Share ideas that> > > > > > better our planet> > > > > >> > > > > > Check out the> > > > > > Y! Groups blog> > > > > > Stay up to speed> > > > > > on all things Groups!> > > > > > .> > > > > >> > > > >> > >

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