Origins of the Numerals

[Guest guest]

The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of hindus Origins of the Numerals

 

 

 

Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination

of just 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits

were introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka

Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North Africa,

where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular Hindu-Arabic

numerals.

 

Hindu

numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a zero. Only

the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations, have consistently

used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part in the dissemination

of this numeral system.

 

Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe

 

The discovery of zero and the place-value

system were inventions unique to the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi

notation of the first 9 whole numbers...

 

Before adopting the

Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman figures instead, which

actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The Roman numeration is based on

a biquinary (5) system.

 

To write numbers the

Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or C + X + X + I (121), and

also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9), XCIV (X before C = 90 and I

before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were used for reckoning until late

XVI century!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other original systems of numeration

 

Other original systems of numeration were

being used in the past. The "Notae Elegantissimae" shown below allow

to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g.

the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4 figures of the square root of 2).

 

 

 

Chinese and Japanese contributions

 

 

The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and

the Genji-Koh patterns, antique Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely

enough related to mathematics and electronics. If all the entire lines of the

trigrams (___) are replaced with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with

the digit 0, each Ba Gua trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to

7, and each number is laid in front of its complementary (0<>7,

1<>6, 2<>5, etc...).

 

Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and

"e" under the five small red sticks of each Genji-Koh pattern. By

doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5 variables in boolean

algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction" (AND, .), and the

isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction" (OR, +). The

pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or

("b" and "e") or "c"]

[Guest guest]

Respected Sunil Nair ji,

Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .

Regards--- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Origins of the Numerals Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM

 

 

 

 

 

The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of hindus

 

 

Origins of the Numerals

 

 

 

Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular Hindu-Arabic numerals.

 

Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations, have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part in the dissemination of this numeral system.

 

 

 

Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe

 

The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole numbers...

 

Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system.

 

To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9), XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were used for reckoning until late XVI century!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other original systems of numeration

 

Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The "Notae Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4 figures of the square root of 2).

Chinese and Japanese contributions

 

 

The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...).

 

Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5 variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction" (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction" (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b" and "e") or "c"]

[Guest guest]

dear Kursija ji that article is written by some one and the links r not avilable to me ,i hav only PDF version ,which i hav already sent to sreenadhji and he will post in grp as attachmnt and u can view those pictures sorry for inconvence i am using all this informations to proov the antiquity of veda s of hindus and also as a proof of vedic astro concepts is devlped in india only and not any foriegn source is possible ( that is my interest in this article ) due to lack of time i am depending on this article's written by some one else as i dont hav time tho i can write in details better with more full fledged article by covering all hindu ,jain and budhist ,sindhu ( indus ) contributions in mathematics /sidhanthic astronomy with lot of ideas and proofs rgrds sunil nair , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Respected Sunil Nair ji,> Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .> Regards> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Origins of the Numerals> > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of hindus > > > > > > Origins of the Numerals> > > > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular Hindu-Arabic numerals.> > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations, have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part in the dissemination of this numeral system.> > > > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe> > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole numbers...> > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system.> > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9), XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were used for reckoning until late XVI century!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other original systems of numeration> > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The "Notae Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4 figures of the square root of 2).> > Chinese and Japanese contributions> > > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...).> > Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5 variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction" (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction" (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b" and "e") or "c"]>

[Guest guest]

Respected Nair-ji,

 

Yes, a good article.

 

However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers.

 

The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is

Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from

or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of 9.

 

And obviously Zero was added much much later.

 

regards

 

Chakraborty

 

 

 

 

S.C. Kursija [sckursija]Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Re: Origins of the Numerals

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respected Sunil Nair ji,

Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .

Regards--- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala (AT) (DOT) co.in> Origins of the Numerals Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM

 

 

 

 

The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of hindus

 

 

Origins of the Numerals Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular Hindu-Arabic numerals. Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations, have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part in the dissemination of this numeral system. Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole numbers... Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system. To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9), XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were used for reckoning until late XVI century!

 

 

Other original systems of numeration Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The "Notae Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4 figures of the square root of 2).

Chinese and Japanese contributions The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...). Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5 variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction" (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction" (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b" and "e") or "c"]

This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear chakraborty ji Thanks ,sure it was a good article on indian origin of numerals But i dont know or yet to see any reference like what u said abt Numbr 9 was a later introduction and then later the concept of zero too .can explain bit if u hav any idea abt it .In vedic texts itself they mentioned abt some numbrs raised by 52 ,( means 10x 10x10 - - - - - 52 times called ayudha ) The kerala system of typical spl prashna called ashta mangala prashna deals with 8 numbrs only ,and i always wondered why they took 8 Only and devides the Kowries ( sea shells ) only by 8 .I am yet to get the logic behind it ( tho they use 108 cowries )so it may b some thing to do with numbr 8 and its importance in past remote history may b ,but we dont hav any supporting proofs for and against this arguemnt .But 8 auspicious things like sandalpaste ,rice ,mirror,white flowers etc also used while delination and prayers and poojas b4 they took up ashtamangala prashna rgrds sunil nair . , CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Respected Nair-ji,> > Yes, a good article.> > However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers. > > The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is > Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from> or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of 9.> > And obviously Zero was added much much later.> > regards> > Chakraborty> > > > > > S.C. Kursija [sckursija]> Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM> > Re: Origins of the Numerals> > > > > > > > > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .> Regards> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Origins of the Numerals> > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in> sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav> very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those> planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of> reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of> hindus > > > > > > > > > > > > Origins of the Numerals > > > > > > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just> 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were> introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka> Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North> Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular> Hindu-Arabic numerals. > > > > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a> zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations,> have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part> in the dissemination of this numeral system. > > > > > > > > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe > > > > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to> the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole> numbers... > > > > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman> figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The> Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system. > > > > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or> C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9),> XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were> used for reckoning until late XVI century!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other original systems of numeration > > > > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The "Notae> Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are> useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4> figures of the square root of 2).> > > > Chinese and Japanese contributions > > > > > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique> Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics> and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced> with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua> trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is> laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...). > > > > Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each> Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5> variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction"> (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction"> (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b" and> "e") or "c"]> > .>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Nair-ji,

 

As usual, I don't have any reference to cite here.

 

What I remember though, in Sanskrit, French and many other

languages, the word for new and '9' are same. Or the root is

same.

 

I have to do some google search to give the examples.

 

And yes, '8' or asta/Ashta is supposed to be a sort of sacred

number. Even, numbers of directions and their Rulers were 8.

(Astha Vasu in eight directions). Even Greek has their 8 Titans.

However their Titans were treated very cruelly. Even the Naags

(of ours) have their Astha Naag.

 

Anyway, I will search for it ..

 

regards

 

chakraborty

 

 

sunil nair [astro_tellerkerala]Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Origins of the Numerals

 

Dear chakraborty ji Thanks ,sure it was a good article on indian origin of numerals But i dont know or yet to see any reference like what u said abt Numbr 9 was a later introduction and then later the concept of zero too .can explain bit if u hav any idea abt it .In vedic texts itself they mentioned abt some numbrs raised by 52 ,( means 10x 10x10 - - - - - 52 times called ayudha ) The kerala system of typical spl prashna called ashta mangala prashna deals with 8 numbrs only ,and i always wondered why they took 8 Only and devides the Kowries ( sea shells ) only by 8 .I am yet to get the logic behind it ( tho they use 108 cowries )so it may b some thing to do with numbr 8 and its importance in past remote history may b ,but we dont hav any supporting proofs for and against this arguemnt .But 8 auspicious things like sandalpaste ,rice ,mirror,white flowers etc also used while delination and prayers and poojas b4 they took up ashtamangala prashna rgrds sunil nair . , CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Respected Nair-ji,> > Yes, a good article.> > However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers. > > The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is > Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from> or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of 9.> > And obviously Zero was added much much later.> > regards> > Chakraborty> > > > > > S.C. Kursija [sckursija]> Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM> > Re: Origins of the Numerals> > > > > > > > > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .> Regards> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Origins of the Numerals> > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in> sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav> very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those> planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of> reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of> hindus > > > > > > > > > > > > Origins of the Numerals > > > > > > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just> 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were> introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka> Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North> Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular> Hindu-Arabic numerals. > > > > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a> zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations,> have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part> in the dissemination of this numeral system. > > > > > > > > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe > > > > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to> the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole> numbers... > > > > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman> figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The> Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system. > > > > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or> C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9),> XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were> used for reckoning until late XVI century!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other original systems of numeration > > > > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The "Notae> Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are> useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4> figures of the square root of 2).> > > > Chinese and Japanese contributions > > > > > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique> Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics> and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced> with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua> trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is> laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...). > > > > Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each> Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5> variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction"> (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction"> (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b" and> "e") or "c"]> > .>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Sunil

 

Are you an an astrologer ?

 

ashtamangala prasna is different and 108 kawidi is different

 

--- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

Re: Origins of the Numerals

 

Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:57 PM

 

Dear chakraborty ji

 

Thanks ,sure it was a good article on indian origin of numerals

 

But i dont know or yet to see any reference like what u said abt Numbr 9 was a

later introduction and then later the concept of zero too .

 

can explain bit if u hav any idea abt it .

 

In vedic texts itself they mentioned abt some numbrs raised by 52 ,( means 10x

10x10 - - - - - 52 times called ayudha )

The kerala system of typical spl prashna called ashta mangala prashna deals with

8 numbrs only ,and i always wondered why they took 8 Only and devides the

Kowries ( sea shells ) only by 8 .I am yet to get the logic behind it ( tho they

use 108 cowries )

 

so it may b some thing to do with numbr 8 and its importance in  past remote

history may b ,but we dont hav any supporting proofs for and against this

arguemnt .But 8 auspicious things like sandalpaste  ,rice ,mirror,white flowers 

etc also used while delination and prayers and poojas b4 they took up

ashtamangala prashna

 

rgrds sunil nair .

 

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, CHAKRABORTYP2@ ... wrote:

>

> Respected Nair-ji,

>

> Yes, a good article.

>

> However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers.

>

> The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is

> Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from

> or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of 9.

>

> And obviously Zero was added much much later.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

>

>

>

>

> S.C. Kursija [sckursija@ ...]

> Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Origins of the Numerals

>

>

Respected Sunil Nair ji,

> Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .

> Regards

>

> --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

>

>

>

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Origins of the Numerals

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM

>

>

>

>

>

The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in

> sidhanthas,astronom y and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav

> very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those

> planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of

> reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of

> hindus

>

>

>

>

>

Origins of the Numerals

>

>

>

>

>

> Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just

> 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were

> introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka

> Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North

> Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular

> Hindu-Arabic numerals.

>

>

>

> Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a

> zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations,

> have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part

> in the dissemination of this numeral system.

>

Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe

>

>

>

> The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to

> the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole

> numbers...

>

>

>

> Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman

> figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The

> Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system.

>

>

>

> To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or

> C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9),

> XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were

> used for reckoning until late XVI century!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Other original systems of numeration

>

>

>

> Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The " Notae

> Elegantissimae " shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are

> useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4

> figures of the square root of 2).

>

>

>

> Chinese and Japanese contributions

>

>

>

>

> The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique

> Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics

> and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced

> with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua

> trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is

> laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...).

>

>

>

> Write " a " , " b " , " c " , " d " and " e " under the five small red sticks of each

> Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5

> variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a " conjunction "

> (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a " disjunction "

> (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [( " a " and " d " ) or ( " b " and

> " e " ) or " c " ]

>

>

..

>

[Guest guest]

Dear chakraborty ji Thanks ,yes what u said abt numbr 9 in diffrnt indo european launguages is same or similar as sanskrit or indian names sure ,i will wait for anything we can reserch on it more rgrds sunil nair , CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nair-ji,> > As usual, I don't have any reference to cite here.> > What I remember though, in Sanskrit, French and many other > languages, the word for new and '9' are same. Or the root is> same. > > I have to do some google search to give the examples. > > And yes, '8' or asta/Ashta is supposed to be a sort of sacred> number. Even, numbers of directions and their Rulers were 8.> (Astha Vasu in eight directions). Even Greek has their 8 Titans.> However their Titans were treated very cruelly. Even the Naags > (of ours) have their Astha Naag.> > Anyway, I will search for it ..> > regards> > chakraborty> > > > sunil nair [astro_tellerkerala]> Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:27 PM> > Re: Origins of the Numerals> > > > > > > Dear chakraborty ji > > Thanks ,sure it was a good article on indian origin of numerals > > But i dont know or yet to see any reference like what u said abt Numbr 9 was> a later introduction and then later the concept of zero too .> > can explain bit if u hav any idea abt it .> > In vedic texts itself they mentioned abt some numbrs raised by 52 ,( means> 10x 10x10 - - - - - 52 times called ayudha ) > The kerala system of typical spl prashna called ashta mangala prashna deals> with 8 numbrs only ,and i always wondered why they took 8 Only and devides> the Kowries ( sea shells ) only by 8 .I am yet to get the logic behind it (> tho they use 108 cowries )> > so it may b some thing to do with numbr 8 and its importance in past remote> history may b ,but we dont hav any supporting proofs for and against this> arguemnt .But 8 auspicious things like sandalpaste ,rice ,mirror,white> flowers etc also used while delination and prayers and poojas b4 they took> up ashtamangala prashna > > rgrds sunil nair .> > > , CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:> >> > Respected Nair-ji,> > > > Yes, a good article.> > > > However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers. > > > > The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is > > Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from> > or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of 9.> > > > And obviously Zero was added much much later.> > > > regards> > > > Chakraborty> > > > > > > > > > > > S.C. Kursija [sckursija@]> > Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM> > > > Re: Origins of the Numerals> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> > Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by> .> > Regards> > > > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > > > > > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@> > Origins of the Numerals> > > > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in> > sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we> hav> > very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those> > planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of> > reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of> > hindus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Origins of the Numerals > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of> just> > 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were> > introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka> > Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North> > Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular> > Hindu-Arabic numerals. > > > > > > > > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a> > zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations,> > have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential> part> > in the dissemination of this numeral system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe > > > > > > > > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to> > the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole> > numbers... > > > > > > > > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman> > figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The> > Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system. > > > > > > > > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7)> or> > C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9),> > XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals> were> > used for reckoning until late XVI century!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other original systems of numeration > > > > > > > > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The> "Notae> > Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They> are> > useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4> > figures of the square root of 2).> > > > > > > > Chinese and Japanese contributions > > > > > > > > > > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique> > Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics> > and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are> replaced> > with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua> > trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number> is> > laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...). > > > > > > > > Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each> > Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5> > variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction"> > (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction"> > (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b"> and> > "e") or "c"]> > > > > .> >> > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>

[Guest guest]

Dear sathesh jithanks for the mail and i appreciate ur remarks on my mail .I am not a good astrologer or even worth to calls as an astrologer even i am waiting for some one to teach me and was sincerely praying to Lord to sent me a guru .can u illuminate us abt ashtamangala prashna and various prashnas conducted in kerala ,how its is diffrnt each other etc we will b obliged and group will b having good learning exprnce rgrds sunil nair , "s.s ratheesh" <ssratheesh wrote:>> Dear Mr. Sunil> > Are you an an astrologer ?> > ashtamangala prasna is different and 108 kawidi is different> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Re: Origins of the Numerals> > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:57 PM> > Dear chakraborty ji> > Thanks ,sure it was a good article on indian origin of numerals> > But i dont know or yet to see any reference like what u said abt Numbr 9 was a later introduction and then later the concept of zero too .> > can explain bit if u hav any idea abt it .> > In vedic texts itself they mentioned abt some numbrs raised by 52 ,( means 10x 10x10 - - - - - 52 times called ayudha )> The kerala system of typical spl prashna called ashta mangala prashna deals with 8 numbrs only ,and i always wondered why they took 8 Only and devides the Kowries ( sea shells ) only by 8 .I am yet to get the logic behind it ( tho they use 108 cowries )> > so it may b some thing to do with numbr 8 and its importance in past remote history may b ,but we dont hav any supporting proofs for and against this arguemnt .But 8 auspicious things like sandalpaste ,rice ,mirror,white flowers etc also used while delination and prayers and poojas b4 they took up ashtamangala prashna> > rgrds sunil nair .> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, CHAKRABORTYP2@ ... wrote:> >> > Respected Nair-ji,> >> > Yes, a good article.> >> > However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers.> >> > The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is> > Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from> > or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of 9.> >> > And obviously Zero was added much much later.> >> > regards> >> > Chakraborty> >> >> >> >> > > > S.C. Kursija [sckursija@ ...]> > Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Origins of the Numerals> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> > Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by .> > Regards> >> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:> >> >> >> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Origins of the Numerals> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in> > sidhanthas,astronom y and astrology and only in india and india alone we hav> > very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all those> > planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot of> > reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of mathematics of> > hindus> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Origins of the Numerals> >> >> >> >> >> > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination of just> > 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits were> > introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka> > Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in North> > Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular> > Hindu-Arabic numerals.> >> >> >> > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you need a> > zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European civilizations,> > have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an essential part> > in the dissemination of this numeral system.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe> >> >> >> > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions unique to> > the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole> > numbers...> >> >> >> > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman> > figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The> > Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system.> >> >> >> > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII (7) or> > C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X = 9),> > XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin numerals were> > used for reckoning until late XVI century!> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Other original systems of numeration> >> >> >> > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The "Notae> > Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999. They are> > useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the first 4> > figures of the square root of 2).> >> >> >> > Chinese and Japanese contributions> >> >> >> >> > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns, antique> > Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to mathematics> > and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are replaced> > with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each Ba Gua> > trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each number is> > laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...).> >> >> >> > Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of each> > Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to CONNECT 5> > variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a "conjunction"> > (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a "disjunction"> > (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or ("b" and> > "e") or "c"]> >> >> .> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil-ji, Sreenadh-ji,

 

No rush on this but when you can please do upload the pdf document and send a

notification to the group.

 

Sunil-ji, thanks for the selfless sharing!

 

Regards

 

Souvik

 

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> dear Kursija ji

>

> that article is written by some one and the links r not avilable to me

> ,i hav only PDF version ,which i hav already sent to sreenadhji and he

> will post in grp as attachmnt and u can view those pictures

>

> sorry for inconvence

>

> i am using all this informations to proov the antiquity of veda s of

> hindus and also as a proof of vedic astro concepts is devlped in india

> only and not any foriegn source is possible ( that is my interest in

> this article )

>

> due to lack of time i am depending on this article's written by some one

> else as i dont hav time tho i can write in details better with more

> full fledged article by covering all hindu ,jain and budhist ,sindhu (

> indus ) contributions in mathematics /sidhanthic astronomy with lot of

> ideas and proofs

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

>

> , " S.C. Kursija "

> <sckursija@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Sunil Nair ji,

> > Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by

> .

> > Regards

> >

> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@

> > Origins of the Numerals

> >

> > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in

> sidhanthas,astronomy and astrology and only in india and india alone we

> hav very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all

> those planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav

> lot of reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of

> mathematics of hindus

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Origins of the Numerals

> >

> >

> >

> > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination

> of just 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These

> digits were introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo

> Pisano (aka Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated

> in North Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now

> popular Hindu-Arabic numerals.

> >

> > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you

> need a zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European

> civilizations, have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played

> an essential part in the dissemination of this numeral system.

> >

> >

> >

> > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe

> >

> > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions

> unique to the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9

> whole numbers...

> >

> > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the Roman

> figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period. The

> Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system.

> >

> > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII

> (7) or C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before

> X = 9), XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin

> numerals were used for reckoning until late XVI century!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Other original systems of numeration

> >

> > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past. The

> " Notae Elegantissimae " shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to

> 9999. They are useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean

> 1414 (the first 4 figures of the square root of 2).

> >

> > Chinese and Japanese contributions

> >

> >

> > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns,

> antique Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to

> mathematics and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams

> (___) are replaced with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the

> digit 0, each Ba Gua trigram will represent then a binary number from 0

> to 7, and each number is laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6,

> 2<>5, etc...).

> >

> > Write " a " , " b " , " c " , " d " and " e " under the five small red sticks of

> each Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to

> CONNECT 5 variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a

> " conjunction " (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form

> a " disjunction " (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [( " a "

> and " d " ) or ( " b " and " e " ) or " c " ]

> >

>

[Guest guest]

dear souvik ji Thanks for ur mail sure ,sreenadh ji will b doing it as soon as he uploads in grp files ,He is taking bit time due to some personal and official commitments and is busy .thanks for u time rgrds sunil nair , "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan wrote:>> Dear Sunil-ji, Sreenadh-ji,> > No rush on this but when you can please do upload the pdf document and send a notification to the group.> > Sunil-ji, thanks for the selfless sharing!> > Regards> > Souvik> > , "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > dear Kursija ji> > > > that article is written by some one and the links r not avilable to me> > ,i hav only PDF version ,which i hav already sent to sreenadhji and he> > will post in grp as attachmnt and u can view those pictures> > > > sorry for inconvence> > > > i am using all this informations to proov the antiquity of veda s of> > hindus and also as a proof of vedic astro concepts is devlped in india> > only and not any foriegn source is possible ( that is my interest in> > this article )> > > > due to lack of time i am depending on this article's written by some one> > else as i dont hav time tho i can write in details better with more> > full fledged article by covering all hindu ,jain and budhist ,sindhu (> > indus ) contributions in mathematics /sidhanthic astronomy with lot of> > ideas and proofs> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > , "S.C. Kursija"> > <sckursija@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> > > Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by> > .> > > Regards> > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil-ji,

 

Please find the copy enclosed. This was copied from a site.

 

_____

 

 

http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/contents/4000/4040/4040_txt.html

Between the Latin words novus, new, and novem, nine, there exists a resemblance so close that it may well be more than accidental. Nine is, then, the new number; that is, the first number on a new count, of which 8 must originally have been the base. Pursuing this thought by investigation into different languages, the same resemblance is found there. Hence the theory is strengthened by corroborative evidence. In language after language the same resemblance is found, until it seems impossible to doubt, that in prehistoric times, 9 was the new number-the beginning of a second tale. The following table will show how widely spread is this coincidence:

Sanskrit, navan = 9. nava = new.Persian, nuh = 9. nau = new.Greek, [Greek: ennea] = 9. [Greek: neos] = new.Latin, novem = 9. novus = new.German, neun = 9. neu = new.Swedish, nio = 9. ny = new.Dutch, negen = 9. nieuw = new.Danish, ni = 9. ny = new.Icelandic, nyr = 9. niu = new.English, nine = 9. new = new.French, neuf = 9. nouveau = new.Spanish, nueve = 9. neuvo = new.Italian, nove = 9. nuovo = new.Portuguese, nove = 9. novo = new.Irish, naoi = 9. nus = new.Welsh, naw = 9. newydd = new.Breton, nevez = 9. nuhue = new.[221]

This table might be extended still further, but the above examples show how widely diffused throughout the Aryan languages is this resemblance. The list certainly is an impressive one, and the student is at first thought tempted to ask whether all these resemblances can possibly have been accidental. But a single consideration sweeps away the entire argument as though it were a cobweb. All the languages through which this verbal likeness runs are derived directly or indirectly from one common stock; and the common every-day words, "nine" and "new," have been transmitted from that primitive tongue into all these linguistic offspring with but little change. Not only are the two words in question akin in each individual language, but they are akin in all the languages. Hence all these resemblances reduce to a single resemblance, or perhaps identity, that between the Aryan words for "nine" and "new." This was probably an accidental resemblance, no more significant than any one of the scores of other similar cases occurring in every language. If there were any further evidence of the former existence of an Aryan octonary scale, the coincidence would possess a certain degree of significance; but not a shred has ever been produced which is worthy of consideration. If our remote ancestors ever counted by eights, we are entirely ignorant of the fact, and must remain so until much more is known of their language than scholars now have at their command. The word resemblances noted above are hardly more significant than those occurring in two Polynesian languages, the Fatuhivan and the Nakuhivan, where "new" is associated with the number 7. In the former case 7 is fitu, and "new" is fou; in the latter 7 is hitu, and "new" is hou. But no one has, because of this likeness, ever suggested that these tribes ever counted by the senary method. Another equally trivial resemblance occurs in the Tawgy and the Kamassin languages, thus:

 

TAWGY. KAMASSIN.

8. siti-data = 2×4. 8. sin-the'de = 2×4.9. nameaitjuma = another. 9. amithun = another.

But it would be childish to argue, from this fact alone, that either 4 or 8 was the number base used.

In a recent antiquarian work of considerable interest, the author examines into the question of a former octonary system of counting among the various races of the world, particularly those of Asia, and brings to light much curious and entertaining material respecting the use of this number. Its use and importance in China, India, and central Asia, as well as among some of the islands of the Pacific, and in Central America, leads him to the conclusion that there was a time, long before the beginning of recorded history, when 8 was the common number base of the world. But his conclusion has no basis in his own material even. The argument cannot be examined here, but any one who cares to investigate it can find there an excellent illustration of the fact that a pet theory may take complete possession of its originator, and reduce him finally to a state of infantile subjugation.

______________

 

regards

 

chakraborty

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sunil nair [astro_tellerkerala]Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: Re: Origins of the Numerals

 

dear souvik ji Thanks for ur mail sure ,sreenadh ji will b doing it as soon as he uploads in grp files ,He is taking bit time due to some personal and official commitments and is busy .thanks for u time rgrds sunil nair , "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan wrote:>> Dear Sunil-ji, Sreenadh-ji,> > No rush on this but when you can please do upload the pdf document and send a notification to the group.> > Sunil-ji, thanks for the selfless sharing!> > Regards> > Souvik> > , "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > dear Kursija ji> > > > that article is written by some one and the links r not avilable to me> > ,i hav only PDF version ,which i hav already sent to sreenadhji and he> > will post in grp as attachmnt and u can view those pictures> > > > sorry for inconvence> > > > i am using all this informations to proov the antiquity of veda s of> > hindus and also as a proof of vedic astro concepts is devlped in india> > only and not any foriegn source is possible ( that is my interest in> > this article )> > > > due to lack of time i am depending on this article's written by some one> > else as i dont hav time tho i can write in details better with more> > full fledged article by covering all hindu ,jain and budhist ,sindhu (> > indus ) contributions in mathematics /sidhanthic astronomy with lot of> > ideas and proofs> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > , "S.C. Kursija"> > <sckursija@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> > > Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by> > .> > > Regards> > >> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

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Dear sathesh ji I am waiting for u rgrds sunil nair , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > Dear sathesh ji> > thanks for the mail and i appreciate ur remarks on my mail .> > I am not a good astrologer or even worth to calls as an astrologer even> i am waiting for some one to teach me and was sincerely praying to Lord> to sent me a guru .> > can u illuminate us abt ashtamangala prashna and various prashnas> conducted in kerala ,how its is diffrnt each other etc> > we will b obliged and group will b having good learning exprnce> > rgrds sunil nair> > > , "s.s ratheesh"> ssratheesh@ wrote:> >> > Dear Mr. Sunil> >> > Are you an an astrologer ?> >> > ashtamangala prasna is different and 108 kawidi is different> >> > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@> > Re: Origins of the Numerals> > > > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:57 PM> >> > Dear chakraborty ji> >> > Thanks ,sure it was a good article on indian origin of numerals> >> > But i dont know or yet to see any reference like what u said abt Numbr> 9 was a later introduction and then later the concept of zero too .> >> > can explain bit if u hav any idea abt it .> >> > In vedic texts itself they mentioned abt some numbrs raised by 52 ,(> means 10x 10x10 - - - - - 52 times called ayudha )> > The kerala system of typical spl prashna called ashta mangala prashna> deals with 8 numbrs only ,and i always wondered why they took 8 Only and> devides the Kowries ( sea shells ) only by 8 .I am yet to get the logic> behind it ( tho they use 108 cowries )> >> > so it may b some thing to do with numbr 8 and its importance in past> remote history may b ,but we dont hav any supporting proofs for and> against this arguemnt .But 8 auspicious things like sandalpaste ,rice> ,mirror,white flowers etc also used while delination and prayers and> poojas b4 they took up ashtamangala prashna> >> > rgrds sunil nair .> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, CHAKRABORTYP2@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Nair-ji,> > >> > > Yes, a good article.> > >> > > However, probably at earlier dates, there were only eight numbers.> > >> > > The numeral '9' was added quite later. The Sanskrit name for 9 is> > > Nava which also means New. Also, all the languages derived from> > > or having same root as of Sanskrit also carries the same meaning of> 9.> > >> > > And obviously Zero was added much much later.> > >> > > regards> > >> > > Chakraborty> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > S.C. Kursija [sckursija@ ...]> > > Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:14 PM> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Origins of the Numerals> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Respected Sunil Nair ji,> > > Very good article. But sorry to write that pictures are not shown by> .> > > Regards> > >> > > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Origins of the Numerals> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:11 AM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The origin and use of numerical systems has to b important in> > > sidhanthas,astronom y and astrology and only in india and india> alone we hav> > > very devlped mathematics and it again proovs beyond doubt that all> those> > > planetary systems and rasies devlped in india only .Also we hav lot> of> > > reference in vedic scriptures itself abt the antiquity of> mathematics of> > > hindus> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Origins of the Numerals> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Today's numbers, also called Hindu-Arabic numbers, are a combination> of just> > > 10 symbols or digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0. These digits> were> > > introduced in Europe within the XII century by Leonardo Pisano (aka> > > Fibonacci), an Italian mathematician. L. Pisano was educated in> North> > > Africa, where he learned and later carried to Italy the now popular> > > Hindu-Arabic numerals.> > >> > >> > >> > > Hindu numeral system is a pure place-value system, that is why you> need a> > > zero. Only the Hindus, within the context of Ind-European> civilizations,> > > have consistently used a zero. The Arabs, however, played an> essential part> > > in the dissemination of this numeral system.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Numerals, a time travel from India to Europe> > >> > >> > >> > > The discovery of zero and the place-value system were inventions> unique to> > > the Indian civilization. As the Brahmi notation of the first 9 whole> > > numbers...> > >> > >> > >> > > Before adopting the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, people used the> Roman> > > figures instead, which actually are a legacy of the Etruscan period.> The> > > Roman numeration is based on a biquinary (5) system.> > >> > >> > >> > > To write numbers the Romans used an additive system: V + I + I = VII> (7) or> > > C + X + X + I (121), and also a substractive system: IX (I before X> = 9),> > > XCIV (X before C = 90 and I before V = 4, 90 + 4 = 94). Latin> numerals were> > > used for reckoning until late XVI century!> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Other original systems of numeration> > >> > >> > >> > > Other original systems of numeration were being used in the past.> The "Notae> > > Elegantissimae" shown below allow to write numbers from 1 to 9999.> They are> > > useful as a mnemotechnic aid, e.g. the symbol K may mean 1414 (the> first 4> > > figures of the square root of 2).> > >> > >> > >> > > Chinese and Japanese contributions> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The Ba-Gua (pron. pah-kwah) trigrams and the Genji-Koh patterns,> antique> > > Chinese and Japanese symbols, are strangely enough related to> mathematics> > > and electronics. If all the entire lines of the trigrams (___) are> replaced> > > with the digit 1 and the broken lines (_ _) with the digit 0, each> Ba Gua> > > trigram will represent then a binary number from 0 to 7, and each> number is> > > laid in front of its complementary (0<>7, 1<>6, 2<>5, etc...).> > >> > >> > >> > > Write "a", "b", "c", "d" and "e" under the five small red sticks of> each> > > Genji-Koh pattern. By doing so, you will have the 52 manners to> CONNECT 5> > > variables in boolean algebraics. The binded sticks form a> "conjunction"> > > (AND, .), and the isolated sticks or groups of sticks form a> "disjunction"> > > (OR, +). The pattern at the top left represents: [("a" and "d") or> ("b" and> > > "e") or "c"]> > >> > >> > .> > >> >>

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dear chakraborty ji Thanks for the mail on numbr 9 and all asiatic and indo -european linkes with the similar sounding Names ( it cannot b a coincidence ) .As u said there is all the chances of octonary system ( 8 numbr system ) was prevalent in many cultures tho our vedic proof says against it atleast in india which was called bharath was having all the Numbrs upto zero- shunya .so we need to dig again more past historical roots for deriving more correct analsysis .Every knowldege is a gradual growth ,so sure all this arguemnts r valid too ,except which was more antique in nature and here i think atleast indian supremacy in mathematics is more viscible and clear .thanks for ur post rgrds sunil nair , CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sunil-ji,> > Please find the copy enclosed. This was copied from a site.> > _____> > http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/contents/4000/4040/4040_txt.html> <http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/contents/4000/4040/4040_txt.html> > > Between the Latin words novus, new, and novem, nine, there exists a> resemblance so close that it may well be more than accidental. Nine is,> then, the new number; that is, the first number on a new count, of which 8> must originally have been the base. Pursuing this thought by investigation> into different languages, the same resemblance is found there. Hence the> theory is strengthened by corroborative evidence. In language after language> the same resemblance is found, until it seems impossible to doubt, that in> prehistoric times, 9 was the new number-the beginning of a second tale. The> following table will show how widely spread is this coincidence:> > Sanskrit, navan = 9. nava = new.> Persian, nuh = 9. nau = new.> Greek, [Greek: ennea] = 9. [Greek: neos] = new.> Latin, novem = 9. novus = new.> German, neun = 9. neu = new.> Swedish, nio = 9. ny = new.> Dutch, negen = 9. nieuw = new.> Danish, ni = 9. ny = new.> Icelandic, nyr = 9. niu = new.> English, nine = 9. new = new.> French, neuf = 9. nouveau = new.> Spanish, nueve = 9. neuvo = new.> Italian, nove = 9. nuovo = new.> Portuguese, nove = 9. novo = new.> Irish, naoi = 9. nus = new.> Welsh, naw = 9. newydd = new.> Breton, nevez = 9. nuhue = new.[221]> > This table might be extended still further, but the above examples show how> widely diffused throughout the Aryan languages is this resemblance. The list> certainly is an impressive one, and the student is at first thought tempted> to ask whether all these resemblances can possibly have been accidental. But> a single consideration sweeps away the entire argument as though it were a> cobweb. All the languages through which this verbal likeness runs are> derived directly or indirectly from one common stock; and the common> every-day words, "nine" and "new," have been transmitted from that primitive> tongue into all these linguistic offspring with but little change. Not only> are the two words in question akin in each individual language, but they are> akin in all the languages. Hence all these resemblances reduce to a single> resemblance, or perhaps identity, that between the Aryan words for "nine"> and "new." This was probably an accidental resemblance, no more significant> than any one of the scores of other similar cases occurring in every> language. If there were any further evidence of the former existence of an> Aryan octonary scale, the coincidence would possess a certain degree of> significance; but not a shred has ever been produced which is worthy of> consideration. If our remote ancestors ever counted by eights, we are> entirely ignorant of the fact, and must remain so until much more is known> of their language than scholars now have at their command. The word> resemblances noted above are hardly more significant than those occurring in> two Polynesian languages, the Fatuhivan and the Nakuhivan, where "new" is> associated with the number 7. In the former case 7 is fitu, and "new" is> fou; in the latter 7 is hitu, and "new" is hou. But no one has, because of> this likeness, ever suggested that these tribes ever counted by the senary> method. Another equally trivial resemblance occurs in the Tawgy and the> Kamassin languages, thus:> > <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"> />> > TAWGY. KAMASSIN.> > 8. siti-data = 2×4. 8. sin-the'de = 2×4.> 9. nameaitjuma = another. 9. amithun = another.> > But it would be childish to argue, from this fact alone, that either 4 or 8> was the number base used.> > In a recent antiquarian work of considerable interest, the author examines> into the question of a former octonary system of counting among the various> races of the world, particularly those of Asia, and brings to light much> curious and entertaining material respecting the use of this number. Its use> and importance in China, India, and central Asia, as well as among some of> the islands of the Pacific, and in Central America, leads him to the> conclusion that there was a time, long before the beginning of recorded> history, when 8 was the common number base of the world. But his conclusion> has no basis in his own material even. The argument cannot be examined here,> but any one who cares to investigate it can find there an excellent> illustration of the fact that a pet theory may take complete possession of> its originator, and reduce him finally to a state of infantile subjugation.> > ______________> > > > regards> > > > chakraborty> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil-ji,

 

In this connection, a net search indicates that Zero was supposed

to be conceived by AryaBhatta only... not before that !!!

 

Any numeral system has to evolve over a very long period of time.

The numbers 1,2, 3,......9, 10 did not evolve on single day.

 

Even the primtive soceities do have notion of 1, 2 & 3. If we assume

the evolution was linerar & gradual (knowledge not handed over to mankind

by Allens, like suggested by Erich Von Daniken etc.), then number system

will evolve over centuries. And as suggested by scholars in net, Zero is a

much later invention.

 

Although, the use of very big numbers is quite common in MBH and others.

And some of the numbers appeared to be 10-based and others are not

(Like - 65552 ... nos. of soldiesr in 1 Auksauhini... more like 8-based, whereas

Shata / Sahasra/ Laksha/Koti or Crore ...all 10-based).

 

It is un-coneciveable how could people at that time handled such numbers

without a very strong presence of an evolved numeral system.

 

regards

 

Chakraborty

 

 

sunil nair [astro_tellerkerala]Friday, July 10, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Origins of the Numerals

 

dear chakraborty ji Thanks for the mail on numbr 9 and all asiatic and indo -european linkes with the similar sounding Names ( it cannot b a coincidence ) .As u said there is all the chances of octonary system ( 8 numbr system ) was prevalent in many cultures tho our vedic proof says against it atleast in india which was called bharath was having all the Numbrs upto zero- shunya .so we need to dig again more past historical roots for deriving more correct analsysis .Every knowldege is a gradual growth ,so sure all this arguemnts r valid too ,except which was more antique in nature and here i think atleast indian supremacy in mathematics is more viscible and clear .thanks for ur post rgrds sunil nair , CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sunil-ji,> > Please find the copy enclosed. This was copied from a site.> > _____> > http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/contents/4000/4040/4040_txt.html> <http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/contents/4000/4040/4040_txt.html> > > Between the Latin words novus, new, and novem, nine, there exists a> resemblance so close that it may well be more than accidental. Nine is,> then, the new number; that is, the first number on a new count, of which 8> must originally have been the base. Pursuing this thought by investigation> into different languages, the same resemblance is found there. Hence the> theory is strengthened by corroborative evidence. In language after language> the same resemblance is found, until it seems impossible to doubt, that in> prehistoric times, 9 was the new number-the beginning of a second tale. The> following table will show how widely spread is this coincidence:> > Sanskrit, navan = 9. nava = new.> Persian, nuh = 9. nau = new.> Greek, [Greek: ennea] = 9. [Greek: neos] = new.> Latin, novem = 9. novus = new.> German, neun = 9. neu = new.> Swedish, nio = 9. ny = new.> Dutch, negen = 9. nieuw = new.> Danish, ni = 9. ny = new.> Icelandic, nyr = 9. niu = new.> English, nine = 9. new = new.> French, neuf = 9. nouveau = new.> Spanish, nueve = 9. neuvo = new.> Italian, nove = 9. nuovo = new.> Portuguese, nove = 9. novo = new.> Irish, naoi = 9. nus = new.> Welsh, naw = 9. newydd = new.> Breton, nevez = 9. nuhue = new.[221]> > This table might be extended still further, but the above examples show how> widely diffused throughout the Aryan languages is this resemblance. The list> certainly is an impressive one, and the student is at first thought tempted> to ask whether all these resemblances can possibly have been accidental. But> a single consideration sweeps away the entire argument as though it were a> cobweb. All the languages through which this verbal likeness runs are> derived directly or indirectly from one common stock; and the common> every-day words, "nine" and "new," have been transmitted from that primitive> tongue into all these linguistic offspring with but little change. Not only> are the two words in question akin in each individual language, but they are> akin in all the languages. Hence all these resemblances reduce to a single> resemblance, or perhaps identity, that between the Aryan words for "nine"> and "new." This was probably an accidental resemblance, no more significant> than any one of the scores of other similar cases occurring in every> language. If there were any further evidence of the former existence of an> Aryan octonary scale, the coincidence would possess a certain degree of> significance; but not a shred has ever been produced which is worthy of> consideration. If our remote ancestors ever counted by eights, we are> entirely ignorant of the fact, and must remain so until much more is known> of their language than scholars now have at their command. The word> resemblances noted above are hardly more significant than those occurring in> two Polynesian languages, the Fatuhivan and the Nakuhivan, where "new" is> associated with the number 7. In the former case 7 is fitu, and "new" is> fou; in the latter 7 is hitu, and "new" is hou. But no one has, because of> this likeness, ever suggested that these tribes ever counted by the senary> method. Another equally trivial resemblance occurs in the Tawgy and the> Kamassin languages, thus:> > <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"> />> > TAWGY. KAMASSIN.> > 8. siti-data = 2×4. 8. sin-the'de = 2×4.> 9. nameaitjuma = another. 9. amithun = another.> > But it would be childish to argue, from this fact alone, that either 4 or 8> was the number base used.> > In a recent antiquarian work of considerable interest, the author examines> into the question of a former octonary system of counting among the various> races of the world, particularly those of Asia, and brings to light much> curious and entertaining material respecting the use of this number. Its use> and importance in China, India, and central Asia, as well as among some of> the islands of the Pacific, and in Central America, leads him to the> conclusion that there was a time, long before the beginning of recorded> history, when 8 was the common number base of the world. But his conclusion> has no basis in his own material even. The argument cannot be examined here,> but any one who cares to investigate it can find there an excellent> illustration of the fact that a pet theory may take complete possession of> its originator, and reduce him finally to a state of infantile subjugation.> > ______________> > > > regards> > > > chakraborty> > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.