Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Dear Jyotishis, In relation to this interesting discussion on the placement of Rahu and its interpretation in the two systems I would like to ask a question about the charts of a pair of Gemini lagna twins both with Rahu 11th opposite Mars 5th. Twin A 4.00am 11 July 1967 54n59, 01w35 Twin A 4.14am 11 July 1967 54n59, 01w35 Data from birth certificate (Daylight saving time applies) There is an significant difference in life events for Mars/Rahu dasha, can this be told from Rahu in the charts? (I will reveal the facts later.) As a clue, these events started upon the very day of entry of Mars into Gemini during Mars/Rahu dasha. Also they both have Venus moon conjunct in Leo 3rd house, but in Twin A's chart this conjunction is exact, whereas in Twin B's chart they are 8 mins apart: how will this play out? Furthermore, is Rahu's placement in Ashvini (twin deities) 11th house of elder brother relevant to the fact of twinship? With thanks for your insights, Oliver , Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: > > Dear Manoj (Mouji) Ji, > >  Here is the problem. It is very difficult to objectively validate the efficacy of one particular theory, especially if it is used in an integrated approach (Parashari + Jaimini). If the practising astrologers are also intelligent and strong in the Parashari principles, they will get the predictions correct any way. So that does not prove that their Jamini principles are accurate, does it? This is why I dont see how these things can be categorically proven, one way or the other. I think it is up to each of us to evaluate each system and adopt whichever passes our practical tests. > > I also feel (my humble pesonal opinion) that those that argue that these two principles should not be mixed together may have a valid point. Jyotish was always an orally transmitted system. If this system was truly an integrated approach, why aren't there more oral traditions with such integrated approach? Why aren't there more classics supporting this integrated approach? Was Parashara really the author of the BPHS as it is currently published, or is the current version a compilation effort from various sources and when that effort was done, different systems were mixed together? > So when some one says, " Parashara says this so it must be true (regarding the integrated system) " , then what they are really saying is " The author of BPHS says this, so it must be true " . Is the author of BPHS really Parashara? > > Ofcourse I am neither a sanskrit scholar nor an accomplished astrologer but that does not prevent me from having a probing mind and ask these questions. However, if some one says " Look, I dont care if Parashara really authored this or not, I tried these two different techniques together, I experimented with it, it works, I like it, so leave me alone " , then I am fine with that too. Experimentation is good as long as we declare it is an experiment and it is a novel approach, but not really an " ancient approach " . > > So after a really circular route, I think the pivotal question becomes, is BPHS as it stands today, really " Ancient Indian Astrology " ? Is it fair to use that as an argument to state that Parashari + Jaimini principles, used in an integrated approach, has classical sanction? > > May be Sreenadh Ji and others throw some light on this? >  > Regards, >  -Manoj >  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 HiOlivercan give details of daylight saving timingsi mean how much correction is needed.awaiting your replyRegards AFFAS = Amit's Future & Financial Advisory ServicesCell :- +91 9820490339Oliver Fallon <opfallon Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:17:33 PM Re:Rahu_ 11H: Twins Dear Jyotishis, In relation to this interesting discussion on the placement of Rahu and its interpretation in the two systems I would like to ask a question about the charts of a pair of Gemini lagna twins both with Rahu 11th opposite Mars 5th. Twin A 4.00am 11 July 1967 54n59, 01w35 Twin A 4.14am 11 July 1967 54n59, 01w35 Data from birth certificate (Daylight saving time applies) There is an significant difference in life events for Mars/Rahu dasha, can this be told from Rahu in the charts? (I will reveal the facts later.) As a clue, these events started upon the very day of entry of Mars into Gemini during Mars/Rahu dasha. Also they both have Venus moon conjunct in Leo 3rd house, but in Twin A's chart this conjunction is exact, whereas in Twin B's chart they are 8 mins apart: how will this play out? Furthermore, is Rahu's placement in Ashvini (twin deities) 11th house of elder brother relevant to the fact of twinship? With thanks for your insights, Oliver ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Manoj (Mouji) Ji, > >  Here is the problem. It is very difficult to objectively validate the efficacy of one particular theory, especially if it is used in an integrated approach (Parashari + Jaimini). If the practising astrologers are also intelligent and strong in the Parashari principles, they will get the predictions correct any way. So that does not prove that their Jamini principles are accurate, does it? This is why I dont see how these things can be categorically proven, one way or the other. I think it is up to each of us to evaluate each system and adopt whichever passes our practical tests. > > I also feel (my humble pesonal opinion) that those that argue that these two principles should not be mixed together may have a valid point. Jyotish was always an orally transmitted system. If this system was truly an integrated approach, why aren't there more oral traditions with such integrated approach? Why aren't there more classics supporting this integrated approach? Was Parashara really the author of the BPHS as it is currently published, or is the current version a compilation effort from various sources and when that effort was done, different systems were mixed together? > So when some one says, "Parashara says this so it must be true (regarding the integrated system)", then what they are really saying is "The author of BPHS says this, so it must be true". Is the author of BPHS really Parashara? > > Ofcourse I am neither a sanskrit scholar nor an accomplished astrologer but that does not prevent me from having a probing mind and ask these questions. However, if some one says " Look, I dont care if Parashara really authored this or not, I tried these two different techniques together, I experimented with it, it works, I like it, so leave me alone", then I am fine with that too. Experimentation is good as long as we declare it is an experiment and it is a novel approach, but not really an "ancient approach". > > So after a really circular route, I think the pivotal question becomes, is BPHS as it stands today, really "Ancient Indian Astrology"? Is it fair to use that as an argument to state that Parashari + Jaimini principles, used in an integrated approach, has classical sanction? > > May be Sreenadh Ji and others throw some light on this? >  > Regards, >  -Manoj >  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Dear Oliver,Thanks for giving this data. It could be an interesting exercise. Can you give the planetary positions as given by your software.//Also they both have Venus moon conjunct in Leo 3rd house, but in Twin A's chart this conjunction is exact, whereas in Twin B's chart they are 8 mins apart: how will this play out?//Moon and venus are not in exact conjunction in any chart. I am getting venus at 8:18 Le and moon at 8:51 Le for Twin 1 and venus 8:18 Le and moon 8:59 Le for Twin 2. Moons are 8 min apart obviously, but from venus the distance is 33 min and 41 min. (as per CPA and PL 7). ALso please let us know how confident are you about the time of birth? About 40 sec difference changes the navamsh of the first Twin to taurus. Before venturing into the exercise of this nature, one must have a level of confidence in the time of birth. Mars-Rahu came when these gentlemen (I guess they are males!) are about 40 years of age. Have they not experienced differences in happenings prior to this period? Is that what generates the interest and hence the probe? If you can give some background information about the Twins or one or two events of their lives, it would help the members in checking the correctness of BT. I hope you'll agree with me or correct me if I am wrong. I'll appreciate if your clarification on this. Thanks and RegardsNeelam 2009/7/19 Oliver Fallon <opfallon Dear Jyotishis, In relation to this interesting discussion on the placement of Rahu and its interpretation in the two systems I would like to ask a question about the charts of a pair of Gemini lagna twins both with Rahu 11th opposite Mars 5th. Twin A 4.00am 11 July 1967 54n59, 01w35 Twin A 4.14am 11 July 1967 54n59, 01w35 Data from birth certificate (Daylight saving time applies) There is an significant difference in life events for Mars/Rahu dasha, can this be told from Rahu in the charts? (I will reveal the facts later.) As a clue, these events started upon the very day of entry of Mars into Gemini during Mars/Rahu dasha. Also they both have Venus moon conjunct in Leo 3rd house, but in Twin A's chart this conjunction is exact, whereas in Twin B's chart they are 8 mins apart: how will this play out? Furthermore, is Rahu's placement in Ashvini (twin deities) 11th house of elder brother relevant to the fact of twinship? With thanks for your insights, Oliver , Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: > > Dear Manoj (Mouji) Ji, > >  Here is the problem. It is very difficult to objectively validate the efficacy of one particular theory, especially if it is used in an integrated approach (Parashari + Jaimini). If the practising astrologers are also intelligent and strong in the Parashari principles, they will get the predictions correct any way. So that does not prove that their Jamini principles are accurate, does it? This is why I dont see how these things can be categorically proven, one way or the other. I think it is up to each of us to evaluate each system and adopt whichever passes our practical tests. > > I also feel (my humble pesonal opinion) that those that argue that these two principles should not be mixed together may have a valid point. Jyotish was always an orally transmitted system. If this system was truly an integrated approach, why aren't there more oral traditions with such integrated approach? Why aren't there more classics supporting this integrated approach? Was Parashara really the author of the BPHS as it is currently published, or is the current version a compilation effort from various sources and when that effort was done, different systems were mixed together? > So when some one says, " Parashara says this so it must be true (regarding the integrated system) " , then what they are really saying is " The author of BPHS says this, so it must be true " . Is the author of BPHS really Parashara? > > Ofcourse I am neither a sanskrit scholar nor an accomplished astrologer but that does not prevent me from having a probing mind and ask these questions. However, if some one says " Look, I dont care if Parashara really authored this or not, I tried these two different techniques together, I experimented with it, it works, I like it, so leave me alone " , then I am fine with that too. Experimentation is good as long as we declare it is an experiment and it is a novel approach, but not really an " ancient approach " . > > So after a really circular route, I think the pivotal question becomes, is BPHS as it stands today, really " Ancient Indian Astrology " ? Is it fair to use that as an argument to state that Parashari + Jaimini principles, used in an integrated approach, has classical sanction? > > May be Sreenadh Ji and others throw some light on this? >  > Regards, >  -Manoj >  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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