Rationlist B. Premanand and Naadi Predictions - Review

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HERE IS A SAMPLE OF Q's AND ANSWERS TYPICALLY DESCRIBING

HOW THE RATIONALIST PERSONS OF HIGH REPUTE WRITE AND SPEAK ABOUT NAADI

PREDICTIONS { FROM INDIAN SKEPTIC ISSUE - NOV 1996}

The comments and rejoinders are welcome.

 

One of the owner of Naadi Centers in Pune, happen to read

the article recently and requested Wg Cdr Oak to pen down his comments to

satisfy Naadi lovers who also get carried away by the propaganda created by

these organizations in print and Electronic Media

 

From : G Eshwaran,

Translator and owner of Naadi centers in Pune and Mumbai.

 

Dear

readers, December 31, 2005

Recently I came to know that one

Naadi Lovers group is operating on Internet forum for the benefit of all Naadi

Grantha lovers, I would like to contribute information available with me. Let me introduce myself.

Since 1999, I am in a unique position of

running two Naadi Centers in Pune and one in Ambarnath, a suburb of greater

Mumbai, dedicated to Agasthya, Kaushik, Vashishtha, Mahashiv and many other

Maharshees. In addition, for last 2 years, I possess the most revered Jeeva

(live) Naadi of Atri Maharshees read and interpreted by highly dedicated and

studied Naadi reader - Shri. Vaidhyanathan

Guruji. Before

getting involved with Naadi prediction, I was running a business as fashion

Designer. Seven-eight years back, I got introduced to this prediction method by

chance. As per the predictions, I was told that you are destined to get

involved with this system as a profession. Soon, though reluctantly, I began to

translate and record readings for the benefit of some Non-Tamilian persons on

friendly basis. Later I found interesting to work as full time job. I worked as a translator in many Naadi

centers in Mumbai and Pune.

 

My other brother named Krupanand

is also in the same profession and is presently running a center in Dombivali

East. Being brought up in Mumbai, I speak good deal of Marathi and Hindi. Thus

I am a good link between Naadi center readers and their patrons in

Tamilnadu.

I have known Wing Commander

Shashikant Oak for last 5/6 years as a staunch Naadi lover. Through his

publications in Marathi, English, Tamil and Hindi, he has been introducing the

treasure of knowledge of many great Maharshees such as Agasthya, Vashishtha,

Shuk, Mahashiv, Kaushik, Kak Bhujander, Bhrugu and many others.

Recently I came to know from Wg

Cdr Shashikant Oak that some information has been put up on Internet by a

rationalist publication called `Indian Skeptic' by Sri Basav Premanand. Shri. B

Premanand, leading non-believer, stands respected as a staunch rationalist of

national and international repute.

The style

of the article published in November 1996 by Shri B. Premanand is in question

and answer form. Shri B Premanand answered the Qs to satisfy Shri M. S. Risbud

from Pune, who is rationalist and studied astrology in great details to debunk

it. Shri. Risbud contributed couple articles in the book written and edited by

Shri, B. Premanand himself - "Astrology

– Science or Ego trip?" In spite of this background, he had some doubts to get

clarified by Shri. B. Premanand.

It appears that Shri. Risbud is not all that happy about

the explanations given by Shri. B. Premanand.

 

Referring to that article, after

a gap of some 7-8 years, since I came to know of it only now, wish to

contribute a rejoinder by way of "my comments" to some Qs raised, which are as

follows: -. (For easy and coherent understanding, I have taken the liberty of

combining the Qs and Answers from the article and also some comments by me are

bracketed in bold letters)

Q by

Shri. Risbud: `The intriguing question is that how the names of the person

appear on the strips? ... `

Answer by Shri B. Premanand:

After asking a few questions and getting my answers, he (Naadi reader) went

inside and brought a palm leaf and read from it my past life which was 100%

correct, but the reading was made on a wrong horoscope that of a lady doctor,

who accompanied him.(Shri B. Premanand in the article stated that he and the

lady doctor played a trick of exchanging the horoscopes to confuse Naadi reader.)

Later it was found that their names and parents' names were there in the

horoscope and the other details were collected through subtle questioning.

The fact is that at the time of subtle questioning by the astrologers or by

their stooges, who also sit amongst you as persons who have come to read their

horoscopes the palm leaves are prepared. There is no need for astonishment in

this as it is a simple trick, which is practiced by all astrologers to collect

information and tell it as if they have found it by reading the horoscope.

My

comments:

1)

In this type of

article where the myth of Naadi is presumed to have been exposed, the exact

details are important. In the whole of the article date and the name of Naadi

Center and reader is not found mentioned except `Salem' as place.

2)

In the South Indian system of Naadi reading

from the leaf is found out from person's thumb impression obtained at the

center at the time of reporting. The horoscope is needed only if person wishes

to compare with the one in the hand with the one written in the leaf. In the

whole article no mention is made about obtaining of his or her thumb

impressions, which is most important.

3)

His observations about

debunking Naadi predictions in general is based only on this single experience

that too from unmentioned Naadi center which can not be treated as final proof

about the validity of the writing in the leaf or otherwise.

Q: `When (lady doctor's) name and her telling

profession mentioned by him were correct, to me it makes no material difference

if he had described her as a paediatrician instead of a gynec.'

Ans: It makes lots of difference, as he was

prediction about her based on my horoscope, which has proved that his

predictions are not based on stars or planetary positions. We had exchanged our

horoscopes deleting our names and our parents' name. We could not suppress our laughter

as he was making prediction on my horoscope.

My comments:

4)

Shri. B.

Premanand is making too much fuss of his trickery. By exchanging the horoscopes

nothing has changed as far as Naadi reader is concerned. Because on occasions

many persons carry thumb impressions of their near ones. While giving reading

that does not mean that the predictions are made about the person presenting

the impressions. When the leaf is found out it does not make difference to the

Naadi reader whether he is diving for the person producing the thumb impression

or the one not present.

5)

Here in the answer he

mentions that the names on their respective horoscopes were deleted. Whereas in

earlier answer he states that the names were picked from the horoscopes. Read

the underlined sentence.

Q: ` Instead of

laughing at he astrologer, I would have astonished by his skills of fathoming

these facts. Further on, you have mentioned that you snatched the palm leaf

from the hands of astrologer and you did not find mention about the person who

entered with sandals and desanctified the room. This means you were able to

read the script and the language of the palm strip. If you were to decipher the

contents of the palm leaves, then I will arrange to send you the photocopy of

such strip which Mr. Oka (Shri. Risbud is in habit of deliberately

mentioning Wg Cdr `Oak' as `Oka' just to belittle him) had sent to Dr.

Jayant Narlikar, (An Astrophysist decorated with Padma Vibhushna Award in

2004) and which was displayed by Dr. Dabholkar (Chairman of Superstition

Eradication Committee, better known as Andhashradha Nirmoolan Samiti, in

Marathi operating in Maharshtra for last

20 years) in Pune, inviting Tamil knowing

persons to read it.

Ans: If I get good photocopies of the palm leaf

inscriptions, I can let you know what they contain. If I get the palm leaf, I

could also check up their leaf by carbon dating to know its age. But you have

no cared to send them.

My

comments

6)

Shri. B.

Premanand has shied from the stating whether he could read the script in the

leaf by himself or not. Obviously not because had he the required expertise he

could have realized that the divining is based on the matter stated in the leaf

and not the based on the information extracted from the clients. On some odd

occasions mentions are found about happening at the time of reading. The person

entering in the room wearing sandals may be one of such occasion.

7)

Shri. Risbud

ignored to sending a copy of the photograph. He also deliberately avoided to

respond about the outcome of the same "photographs show" conducted in Pune, on

29 Sep 1995, in front of a crowd of more than hundred persons mainly members of

Dr. Dabholkar's Superstition Eradication Committee and three Tamil speaking

persons who happen to attend the meeting by accidentally reading in local news

paper about this show of photographs. This show was specially organized by Dr.

Narendra Dabholkar to openly declare that the script in the palm leaf,

purported to be a Naadi leaf obtained by them from Dorai Subburathinam's Naadi

center in Tambaram, is not at all TAMIL. More than 100 persons, mostly strong

supporters of Dr. Dabholkar, attended the meeting. In presence of video cameras

of media, everyone witnessed that three Tamil speaking persons gave in writing

and in front of video camera that the script is indeed Tamil and being ancient

it is difficult to read ordinarily.

8)

No Naadi center

will like to provide the sample of leaf to these types of organizations who are

hell bend on proving the existence of Naadi leaves predictions as HOAX at any

cost. However person of high integrity and sincere in their approach like Wg

Cdr Shashikant Oak are given the permission by many centers to take the

photographs of the leaves pertaining to their own for the sake of examination

and verification of truth of Naadi written by Maharshees in olden times.

9)

It is surprising that

person like Shri. B. Premanand whose life mission is to debunk the horoscopic

or other wise predictive methods has to wait to provide the leaf in his lap. He

then would like to the age of the leaf checked by the institute of his favour.

What is preventing him or like-minded persons or organizations then? Let them

come to centers with reverence towards the Maharshees work. They will not sent

back empty handed.

Q: The

age of any originals of the palm leaves cannot be more than 1700 years at the

most. This is certain because Rishies are mentioned in the contents. Rishies

came into use in our astrology after Shaka year 300 or so.

Ans: There are no originals of the palm

leaves. It is prepared when a new

customer comes, but it would look old through chemical treatment. But the age

can be known by carbon dating.... That would help to prove the falsity of their

claims.

My

comments

10)

It is not

impertinent to mention that a person named Thomas Ritter from Germany had

already done the carbon 14 test in one of the most sophisticated laboratories

in Germany. He has also got the script decoded by expert available in his

country. The findings are that the leaf when tested was at least 350 to 400 years

old. The foreign Tamil expert had explained that the matter is indeed

divination in Tamil is not some thing otherwise religious scripture. If a

foreigner could obtain the results, what is preventing the Indians?

11)

It is always stated by

the Naadi center owners that the matter on the leaf has been last rewritten in

the times of Maratha King Sarfouji Maharaja of Tanjavaur some 300 years back.

Thus the leaves may be of recent origin but the written matter is of ancient

times. The same argument is confirmed by the Carbon 14 test conducted in

Germany.

Q: I wish to know this thing from you: You have

mentioned that the Naadi astrologer told your past 100% correct. What

explanation can you give for this. How did that fellow get all the information

about you? In your article I did not find any answer.

Ans: The fact that you have not cared to read the

article minutely. (Shri B Premanand has scolded Shri Risbud at places for

not having read his article minutely. Here is one such mention.)

They are:

1. Later

it was found that their names and their parents' names were in the horoscope

and other details were collected through subtle questioning.

2. After

asking a few questions and getting answers, he went inside and brought a

palm leaf (meaning unconnected by string in bundle) and read from it

my past life, which was 100% correct.

3. The

fact is that at the time of subtle questioning by the astrologers or by their

stooges who also sit amongst you as person who has come to read their

horoscopes and the palm leaves are prepared and read. If you give wrong answer

the reading will also be wrong. If you give another's horoscope as yours the

reading will be on you and not on the horoscope if they have collected

information about you. Except the names and your profession, most of the things

they tell about you will not be on the palm leaf and what they read would

generally prediction, which will be true to every one.

 

My

comments

13. As said earlier the leaf of any person is

found out based on the thumb impression (For gents Right Hand and form ladies

Left hand thumb impression) of the person and not on the horoscope. Shri. B

Premanand has not even made any mention about it. How come? In fact as a

rationalist he should have done a lot of drum beating about futility of the

thumb impression in exacting the packet containing the leaf of his thumb

impression configuration.

14.

His statement that the Naadi reader went in side and brought (presumably one

single) a palm leaf and read from it past life 100% correct. This cannot happen

because all the leaves are inter-woven with a string through all leaves and

packed in two wooden plates.

15.

It is Shri. B. Premanand's wild imagination that the leaf gets prepared,

(meaning, made to order) by writers from center sitting inside their so called

`secret Room' and writing from the information they could extract by subtle

questioning and through stooges planted has no base. He has not provided any

proof to substantiate this statement. On the contrary as a custodian of all

Naadi leaves in the center let me tell you Even though no person is permitted

to peep though the secret room of Naadi center Shri. B. Premanand could have at

least found out traces of cut outs of huge heaps of leaves out side the center

and some unwanted waste parts of leaves in odd corners. Some half prepare

leaves, waitting for some sort of chemical treatment. (Here let me make it

very clear, as a owner of the centers and who knows what goes inside of secret

room that neither the work of writing of leaf takes place nor any sort of preparation

of leaves cutting, from branches, sorting making of holes, various types of

sharp needle like stylus pens a getting sharpened for writing on blank parts of

leaves. etc.)

 

16.

There is no secret in the so-called "Secret room" except the bundles are

stacked in neat manner. Sometimes Naadi readers sit or mostly stand to reach

out to the correct bundle pertaining to the required thumb configuration. The Naadi centers, in places like Pune or

Mumbai where the packets are in limited number, they are kept in suitcases too.

Let me vouch authentically on behalf of Naadi centers that no preparation of

new leaves takes place.

17.

It is brought to

the notice that the present Naadi readers are capable of only reading the

matter on the leaves but cannot write the leaves.

18.

The theory of

sending the stooges in the crowd of visitors is highly impossible outside

Tamilnadu. For getting the information with subtle questioning one will need

extra ordinary command over Tamil language. If at all, it may be possible to

some extent inside Tamilnadu but outside Tamilnadu through out all part of

India the language is the main barrier. Here the problem is other way round,

the workers of Naadi center do not know the language of the local visitors.

They are so shy of talking to the visitors naturally; it often creates

misunderstanding due to the problem of non-communication. Even if some of them

try to be chummy with the crowd, they could get easily spotted out as typical

Tamilian.

19.

Also always

remember that the visitors are not fools and gullible to discuss the personal

information with strangers. In fact every person seeking the predictions for

the first time is suspicious and very cautious to speak to any body from center

or other visitors. In addition, we from Naadi center, while taking their thumb

impression also caution to all visitors to not to say anything other than Yes

or No when the search of leaf begins.

20.

The present time

problem out side Tamil speaking areas, we the Naadi center proprietors face is

that there is not getting proper person who could speak to the waiting

customers. There is general dissatisfaction about the quality of translation.

The centers these days function in crowded cities in one-bed room flats where

there is no place for them to hide the secret writing work to be undertake.

along with getting the stakes of palm leaves from far off places. The

suspicious neighbors will instantly catch Naadi readers if they see them

bringing some fresh branches of palm trees to get more leaves for writing

purpose.

21.

These types of

imaginary actions of writing of leaves, planting of stooges do not happen

because there is no need to do all that. All the Naadi readers do is to read

what is readily available in the leaf. But persons like Shri B. Premanand Dr.

Narendra Dabholkar, Dr. Jayant Narlikar will never accept the reality.

Therefore they are force to defend themselves on far-fetched imaginations. Thus

the fictitious and queer theory of writing the new leaves inside the center for

new customers is valid only for argument sake by the rationalists. In fact, not

that they do not know the futility of their arguments, but they cannot accept

the miraculous reality of Naadi predictions because it goes totally against

their pre-decided negative scientific principles. Even if they wish to accept

the truth of the Naadi prediction leaves, they have no face to show to the

public. Thus the rationalists have already lost the case, but they will never

accept the defeat in public to avoid the denigration and ignominy of getting their rationalist

organizations closed.

 

22.Here

let me make clear in writing that if any serious verification is to be

conducted, I am open to such investigation. However, it should be headed by the

team of expert scientists and not by the persons or organizations who had

already declared the Jyotish Shasta as bunkum in general and Naadi predictions

as fraud and deception in particular.

(As

told by Shri. G Eshwaran to Wg Cdr Shashikant Oak)

[Owner of Two Naadi centers in

Pune and one in Ambarnath - Suburban

outside Mumbai]