Purpose of learning by listening and throuh axioms- sruti and sutra.

[Guest guest]

Dear friend,

 

 

In old days the guru used to teach the subject extensively to their disciples

and

 

for quick revision / easiness of commitment to memory

 

purpose

 

summarised them

 

in the name/ form of some standard workable principles

 

or axioms or sutras.

 

It is not possible for any teacher of any ages to keep written record

 

of all those explanations, notes, allgegories, examples

 

he /she uses during his/her teachings.

 

So summarisations in terms of prominent memorable words/ process/ working

principles/ axioms is

 

just a 'memory retention' technique.

 

So the process of summarisation at times altogether changed

 

the original meaning of the teachings-

 

A small example is the 1st sutra of

 

Patanjali-

 

'Yoga Chitta Vritti Niordha'

 

All of us know it never meant

 

'Obstructing or opposing the " Chitta Vritti " -

 

although the immediate literal transliteration meant so.

 

--------------------

My grandfather was able to recite

 

the 100% of 'Kanwa Samhita' as well as 'Griha Sutra'

 

portion of Yajur Veda

 

which constituted the main part of the Karmakanda for Brahmins.

 

It was not that these two texts were not available in written format !

 

Learning by listening from Guru and subsequent repetition and

 

re-elucidation with examples/ appllications has its own merit.

 

At least the 'learning' is acquired and 'does not remain in the book/

palmleaves'.

 

So the main purpose was understanding and internalisation of the learnings in

the correct perspectives.

 

 

I agree with you 100% that discrimination is needed in

 

every field of special knowledge

 

where there is risk of it is being misused it can be imparted on

 

selective basis.

 

Regards,

 

Mrutyunjay Tripathy

 

 

 

 

, " R.C.Srivastava "

<swami.rcs wrote:

>

> Dear Mrutyunjay Tripathy,

> As you are aware There is fundamental difference between Sutra and other

literature.

> Sacredness and secretness went together in past and nothing has changed . In

recent past V Ramamurty ,Who was a shrutidhar learnt jaimini from Varanshi

but could not find a single person fit to receive/pass on Sutra knowledge.This

is not so with compilations attributed in name of Rsi for they have very

general purpose to help mankind .

> Sruti smriti and sutra have different dimensions and can they be equated?

This is here I feel we need discrimination.

> with regards

>

> RCS

>

>

> , " Mrutyunjay Tripathy "

<astrologer_mrutyunjay@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friend,

> >

> > In most of the valuable text of religion, philosophy and jyotish,

> >

> >

> > the authors declares thieir text

> >

> > to be sacred, secret

> >

> >

> > to induce the feeling of sincere urge towards learning.

> >

> > Even BPHS ( all versions)

> >

> > says

> >

> > " the Vidya of Jyotish need not be offered to the disbeliever

> >

> > - which might result in day by day increase in the misery of

> >

> > the guru "

> >

> > the quote is

> >

> > " Na dadayat para shishyaya datte dukha dine dine " .

> >

> >

> > Similarly all the Yoga Asanas, Pranayam literatures like

> >

> > 'Yoga Vashishta'

> >

> > " Hatha Yoga Pradipika' etc.

> >

> > were till now highly guarded secret

> >

> > untill the courageious and noble minded

> >

> > sage Baba Ram Dev unfolded these secrets before the public

> >

> > for their overall benefit.

> >

> > So dissemination of correct knowledge requires the

> >

> > strength of character

> >

> > and mastery over these knowledge by

> >

> > the native and

> >

> > project/ disseminate these knowledge before public

> >

> > so that

> >

> > the secret knowledge is misused to the minimal.

> >

> > For example Baba Ram Dev Jee teaches us

> >

> > Pranayam for healthy living...

> >

> >

> > but seldom He is going to teach the public

> >

> > how to live for Hundered Years

> >

> > without food and water...

> >

> >

> > although the same may already be a part of His acquired/ experienced

> >

> > wisdom !

> >

> >

> > So masters of the Jaimini System

> >

> > should come forward with disclosure of that

> >

> > much of undisputed and established wisdom

> >

> > within minimal chances of misuse...

> >

> >

> > as the secrets of " Hatha Yoga Pradipika " and

> >

> > " Pranayam Rahashya " and " Yoga Vashishta " etc.

> >

> > were demonstrated by Baba Ram Dev Jee before the masses.

> >

> > Only positve contributions to society like Baba Ram Dev

> >

> > can show that we are the true disciple/ learner of our

> >

> > secret wisdoms. Baba Ram Dev never argued over correctness of

> >

> > Asansa or Pranayam technique with anybody.

> >

> > Never quoted classics...to justify his technique.

> >

> > They are open for public. Anyone can replicate them. Test them.

> >

> > Hope lots of positive contirbutions on Jyotish come forward

> >

> > from the reverend Masters/ Disciples of the Jaimini

> >

> > System/ Traditions of Jyotish.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Mrutyunjay Tripathy

> >

> > , " Sreenadh " <sreesog@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > > Below is an informative post by teli Shanmukha. Please note that he is

the same person who maintains the astrology blog on Jaimini system at:

http://sutramritam.blogspot.com/ He is connected to SJC and Sanjay Rath and is

an Electronics Engineer working in reputed scientific organization in India.

> > > Love and regards,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > vedic astrology , teli Shanmukha <teli_sha2002@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Namah Sivaya

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Narasimha,

> > >

> > > Please go through the following.

> > >

> > > You Wrote : Though Some people believe that the keys to Jaimini’s

cryptic teachings lie with some secret paramparas, it is a questionable belief.

> > >

> > > I beg to differ in this issue. It is not a belief, but a fact. I have

ample references to support that this system has been a secret and I have

provided them in a couple of instances earlier. When Somanatha Mishra writes in

his Kalpalatha that this Jaimini system is a secret one, do you think or

understand that he is lying? If you think so, it is really an indological view.

When Somanatha Mishra writes that the calculation of the rasi dasas was clearly

explained in Mula Sasthra by Kalidasa and Krishna Mishra writes he wrote this

science based on Sarvajna Muni commentary of Jaimini, is it they are lying or

Are we blind enough?. Somanatha or whoever the commentator writes something on

Jaimini and declares this as a Secret science, they mean it and they want to

state the factual issue. You can check out even the very recent commentator like

Durga Prasada Dvivedi, the author of Jaimini Padyamritam, verbally declares the

view of Vriddha Karika on Argala is

> > > secret. The same is the case with the Raghava Bhatta. So, it is not a

belief but a fact. All these commentators do write to educate and enrich our

knowledge, not to bluff nor wrote for fear of some learned scholar questions

their writing in future.

> > >

> > > Before answering and at least considering the points above, declaring at

you will the above things are simple beliefs is regretted.

> > >

> > > You wrote: Some more people believe that keys to Jaimini’s cryptic

teachings lie in some commentaries by scholars such as Neelakantha, Raghava

Bhatta, Nrisimha Suri etc. that too a questionable belief. The caliber and

reliability of these not-so-ancient scholars, who came during an interesting

period in Indian astrology and astronomy, is unclear.

> > >

> > > Alas, as somebody pointed out, you are axing anything and everything. To

judge one’s caliber and reliability on the basis of their period of existence

is very dogmatic. It is no problem if you try to understand anything with an

independent interpretation. But, if you axe any knowledge on Jaimini to prove

your point is highly questionable. Do believe whatever you want, but don’t

propagate these not so factual issues.

> > >

> > > Can you tell me the period of Krishna Mishra or the most ancient

literature available on Jaimini Vaanchanaathiyam? Can you tell me how pious or

bad living they had? Is it somebody becomes not intelligent or great by their

period. What nonsense is this? Do you mean the medieval people are not reliable?

In fact, it is for their invaluable service, we have all these ancient knowledge

survived. They devoted their families to protect the ancient manuscripts to the

possible extent from the non-hindu invaders.

> > >

> > > Yes, we all believe and venerate Sage Parasara. Yet, we never know whether

the author of the present available BPHS is the puranic Sage Parasara. Try to

find out the period of Krishna Mishra, who is definitely after Varahamihira as

he declares that he is Raj Jyotish of Vikramaditya, so that we can decide how

ancient he was.

> > >

> > > Do you believe if I say there are some commentaries which explain the

applicability of Rasi dasas based on the yoga on the horoscope? Can you show me

the instance in BHPS which explain Rasi dasa applicability? If not how can we

conclude that BPHS is the most reliable and final authority on Jaimini pointers?

As you always points out, we don’t have these many dasas without a purpose. I

agree that PHPS holds valuable information on Astrology, but kindly remember it

as a compendium. The real clue to the Jaimini lies in Bhashyas (commentaries)

not in BPHS. Why Raghava Bhatta interpretation of Arudha Padas and dasa years

and calculation of Hora, Ghatika Lagna endorsed by Nadi work like Chandra Kala

Nadi. And that has been used by scholars in Andhra Pradesh for centuries? Are

they blind to this so called Bible of Astrology BPHS. It is like the famous

dialog in Kanyasulkam play “Anni Vedallone Unnaishaâ€.

> > >

> > > One final question. Kindly state, at least according to humble knowledge,

which one is the Parasara authored text from the following list.

> > >

> > >

> > > BPHS compiled by Sitaram Jha

> > > BPHS compiled by Devaki Chandra Jha

> > > BPHS compiled by Sridhara Pandita

> > > PHPS compiled by Ganesha Datta Pathak

> > > BPHS commented by Girish Chandra Sharma

> > > BPHS commented by Santaanam and others

> > > BPHS commented by Madhura Krishna Murthy

> > >

> > > Of course, the above list is not comprehensive and do feel free to state

if any other BPHS version, is the real one authored by Sage Parasara.

> > >

> > > Why I write all this is for I know how much I respect and believe in you.

If I read your recent views I might someday believe what preach is correct. You

have been and are a most influential person to me and so are to most of students

here.

> > >

> > > I end this mail with a note that Jaimini not being cryptic. It is Amrita,

the sacred nectar and if you really try for this you will get it. That’s why

my Guru named his commentary “Jaimini Sutramritamâ€. As long as we long for a

simple honey or sugar cane juice, we never feel the nectar. My personal request

and humble submission to you that please read the other valuable information on

Jaimini along with BPHS to understand this science, else it would be a futile

attempt, however the sincere it be.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Shanmukha

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> >

>