Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpala

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Bhattarchjya ji, //> I was wondering how the premature births can be accommodated in these calculations. // The given method is the general rule to find the DOB of the child, just like the 280+-7 rule of the modern doctors. As far as premature births are concerned there are other methods such as considering the significators of various pregnancy months etc. //Secondly I also wonder if there is any astrological basis in the

understanding among some people that by choosing the hour of the

night for the relation with the spouse one can choose to have a son or

a daughter.// Me too had heard about many such notions and beliefs, but is yet to see any such rule on any authentic book of astrology. Love and regards,Sreenadh , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > I was wondering how the premature births can be accommodated in these calculations. Secondly I also wonder if there is any astrological basis in the understanding among some people that by choosing the hour of the night for the relation with the spouse one can choose to have a son or a daughter.> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

 

 

 

As mentioned by sunil nair ji,finding conception time is very difficult.

 

 

nevertheless you put lot of effort to illustrate this method which is

appreciable.

 

 

I have couple of questions

 

1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala.Has this method came

from commentator and not from varahamihira?

 

 

2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we calculate the

rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that method compared to this?I

guess it will be easier to follow the one with query time.

 

 

 

3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna " in kerala.Sorry i read abt in

somewhere in a regional language book .so t

he name i quoted might be slightly different from what you use?

 

 

Thanks and best wishes

 

vishnu

 

 

 

 

, " astro_tellerkerala "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> Dear sreenadh Ji

>

> Many thanks for discussing this part which comes under Garbha adhana

> lagna determination tho we dont know which intercourse is the cause of

> Birth and here i think first we shud decode the Kujendu Hetu Pratimasa

> arthavam......... shloka --(Moon and mars is the cause of Monthly menses

> in ladies ) and decide which Moon position related with moon/ mars in

> possible for such a event and also in male chart also certain conditions

> are mentioned to see putrolpathi ( child bearing time ) periods .

>

> thanks for such nice thought provoking article

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

> , " sreesog " <sreesog@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > I was just reading through the commentary of Bhattolpala on Brihat

> > Jataka. Suddenly a unique example given by Bhattolpala captured my

> > attention. It is an example stated, while discussing the sloka

> > `Tatkala Indu Sahito', for the determination of delivery/birth

> > time from the time of conception I am discussing the same below for

> the

> > benefit of all. The sloka of Brihat Jataka under discussion is as

> > follows-

> >

> > " Consider the dwadasamsa of Moon at the time of intercourse. At the

> > 10th lunar month of from the date of intercourse, when Moon reaches

> > that much signs ahead from the corresponding dwadasamsa, considering

> the

> > Lagna longitude, in the corresponding time indicated by the same, in

> day

> > or night the birth will take place "

> >

> > Bhattolpala provides us with an example to clarify the same; which

> tells

> > us the method to be followed with supreme clarity. The most

> interesting

> > point here is that Bhattolpala not only gives the possible date of

> birth

> > but also the time of birth which even modern doctors will fail to

> > provide! Let us go through his example to have a better understanding.

> I

> > am quoting the words of Bhattolpala below-

> >

> > " Now for beginners I will demonstrate it with an example - Think

> > that in the lunar month of Visakha (i.e. Moon is in Taurus sign), in

> > Suklapaksha Fullmoon day, at night time 11 Ghati 0 Vighati an

> > intercourse took place. Think that the longitude of Moon at that time

> > was 7s 90 30| 10||. Here Moon is in 4th dwadasamsa of Scorpio sign.

> The

> > 4th dwadasamsa (counted from Scorpio) falls in Aquarius sign.

> Therefore

> > it should be understood that when the Moon (due to transit) comes in

> the

> > 4th sign from Aquarius, i.e. in Taurus sign at the 10th lunar month,

> > i.e. in the lunar month of Phalguna the birth will take place. In

> Taurus

> > sign, the 3 quarters of Krittika, 4 quarters of Rohini and 2 quarters

> of

> > Mrigasira Nakshatra is present. Now I will tell in which Nakshatra and

> > in which quarter the birth will take place (based on the longitude of

> > Moon at the time of intercourse) - The longitude of Moon at the time

> of

> > intercourse is 90 30| 10||. The remaining dwadasamsa span after

> removing

> > the complete dwadasamsa spans consumed by Moon is = (90 30| 10||) x

> 70

> > 30| = 20 0| 10|| = 120| 10|| = 120| after rounding the figure by

> > neglecting the remaining 10|| considering the advice that small

> numbers

> > can be neglected. One dwadasamsa = 20 30| = 150|. One sign of 30

> degree

> > contains 1800 minutes. Therefore as per the minutes covered by Moon,

> the

> > minutes equivalent to sign is = (1800| x 120)/150 = 12 x 120 = 1440.

> One

> > navamsa = 30 20| = 200|. Thus the navamsas consumed = 1440/200 =

> > 7+40/200. This is the 7th Navamsa of Taurus sign, which is the first

> > quarter of Mrigasira Nakshatra. Thus it becomes clear that in the

> lunar

> > month of Phalguna (i.e. Sun in Cancer sign) when Moon is in Mrigasira

> > Nakshatra 1st quarter the birth will take place. Now to clarify the

> time

> > of birth and whether the birth would be at day or night, I am

> providing

> > an example - Think that the Lagna longitude at the time of intercourse

> > was 9s 100 25| 0||. That is the Lagna is in Capricorn sign. The 4th

> > sign from Capricorn (considering that the Moon's dwadasamsa was 4th)

> > is Aries. Aries is a sign that becomes strong at night, and therefore

> > the birth will take place at night. Now let us find out the time at

> > which the birth will take place on that day night. Removing the

> complete

> > dwadasamsa from Lagna longitude the remainder is 25|. Let us think

> that

> > the duration of night for that date was 28 Ghati. One navamsa = 30 20|

> =

> > 200|. Thus on calculating we get, (28gh x 25|)/200| = 3gh 30vgh . Thus

> > it is clear that `From the date of conception, which was in

> > Suklapaksha Fullmoon day in the lunar month of Visakha, the birth will

> > take place in the 10th lunar month, i.e. in the month of Phalguni, in

> > the first quarter of Mrigasira Nakshatra, at night time 3gh 30vgh the

> > birth will take place! "

> >

> > The method predicts not only the Month and date of birth, but also the

> > Nakshatra, Nakshatra pada, day/night, and the time of birth! If the

> > method is correct, it is wonderful information! Let us try to

> understand

> > this method in the modern way.

> >

> > First condition (Month of Birth)

> >

> > As per this method the delivery should take place in the 10th lunar

> > month from the date of intercourse. A lunar month is 29.5 days approx.

> >

> > On completing 9 months, 29.5 x 9 = 265.5 days.

> >

> > On completing 10 months, 29.5 x 10 = 295 days.

> >

> > Thus it tells us that the delivery will take place after 265.5 days

> and

> > before 295 days from the date of intercourse. As per our modern

> > understanding since the pregnancy period is 280 days approx, this is a

> > well acceptable value.

> >

> > But the cute thing that attracts our attention here is, the

> correlation

> > (mentioned by Bhattolpala) between the Moon cycle and birth. The point

> > to be noted is that, it is the rhythm of Moon that determines when the

> > birth will take place!

> >

> > OK. Now we have a span of 29.5 days as the possible period of birth.

> Out

> > of these 29.5 days, when the birth will take place?

> >

> > Second condition (Moon sign at birth)

> >

> > The Moon sign at the time of birth would be determined by the Moon's

> > dwadasamsa (Moon's longitude) at the time of intercourse.

> >

> > In the example discussed, Moon's longitude was 7s 90 30| 10||. The

> > sign is not important so it was discarded. The remaining portion was

> 90

> > 30| 10||. One dwadasamsa = 300 /12 = 20 30| = 150|. On removing the

> > multiples 20 30| from 90 30| 10|| we came to know that, 90 30| 10||

> is

> > in the 4th dwadasamsa of Scorpio sign. It naturally falls on Capricorn

> > when counted from Scorpio. The forth sign from their onwards is Taurus

> > (this is as per the method given in the sloka). Thus it is confirmed

> > that the Nakshatra at delivery time will fall in Taurus. A better

> > formula to find the Moon sign at delivery time would be-

> >

> > Count of Moon sign at birth (starting from the Moon sign at the time

> of

> > intercourse) = (2 x Count of Moon's dwadasamsa at intercourse time )

> > - 1

> >

> > In the above case, Count of Moon's dwadasamsa at the time of

> > intercourse = 4

> >

> > Therefore count of Moon sign at birth = 2 x 4 -1 = 8-1 = 7

> >

> > Moon at the time of intercourse was in Scorpio, and therefore at the

> > time of delivery it would be in the 7th sign from Scorpio, that is in

> > Taurus.

> >

> > Here also the influence of Moon in determining the birth date gets

> > emphasized.

> >

> > Third condition (Nakshatra quarter at birth)

> >

> > This is determined by the consumed portion of Moon's dwadasamsa at

> > the time of intercourse.

> >

> > In the example given, the consumed portion of Moon's longitude = (90

> > 30| 10||) x 70 30| = 20 0| 10|| = 120| 10|| = 120| after rounding

> off

> > the 10||. From this 120| , the exact Nakshatra quarter at the time of

> > delivery is determined as follows-

> >

> > The minutes equivalent to Nakshatra quarter is = (1800| x 120)/150 =

> 12

> > x 120 = 1440. One navamsa = 30 20| = 200|. Thus the navamsas consumed

> =

> > 1440/200 = 7.2, i.e. Moon should in the 8th Nakshatra quarter in

> Taurus

> > sign. Thus the Nakshatra quarter is arrived at as 1st quarter of

> > Mrigasira.

> >

> > Fourth Condition (Day/Night)

> >

> > This is determined by the sign equal to the dwadasamsa count, counted

> > from Lagna.

> >

> > In the example given,

> >

> > Lagna longitude = 9s 100 25| 0|| = Capricorn

> >

> > Dwadasamsa count of Moon = 4

> >

> > Thus in this case whether the birth will take place either at day or

> > night would be determined by the 4th sign from Capricorn, which is

> > Aries. Aries becomes strong at night, and therefore it is determined

> > that the birth will take place at night.

> >

> > This raises the question, which are the signs that become strong at

> > night and which at day? The list is given below.

> >

> > Night signs = Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Sagittarius, Capricorn.

> >

> > Day signs = Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Aquarius, Pisces

> >

> > If dwadasamsa count mentioned, falls in any of these signs that are

> > strong at night, the delivery will happen at night or else at day

> time.

> >

> > Fifth condition (Time of birth)

> >

> > The time of birth is determined by the consumed dwadasamsa of Lagna

> > longitude at the time of intercourse and the day/night duration.

> >

> > In the example given,

> >

> > Lagna longitude = 9s 100 25| 0||

> >

> > Consumed dwadasamsa = 100 25| 0|| - (20 30| x 4)

> >

> > = 100 25| 0|| - 100 = 25|

> >

> > Night duration = 28 Ghati = 22.4 hours = 22 hours 24 min.

> >

> > One Navamsa = 30 20| = 200|

> >

> > Thus the time of birth = (28gh x 25|)/200| = 3gh 30vgh

> >

> > = (22.4 x 25)/200 = 2.8 = 2 hours 48

> min.

> >

> > i.e, In this case, the birth should take place 2 hours 48 minutes

> after

> > the Sunset.

> >

> > Result Derived

> >

> > Initial Data: The intercourse took place in the lunar month of Visakha

> > in a Full Moon day. At the time of intercourse,

> >

> > Moon's longitude = 7s 90 30| 10||

> >

> > Lagna longitude = 9s 100 25| 0||

> >

> > Final Derivation: The delivery will take place in the 10th lunar month

> > of Phalguna, while Moon is in Taurus sign, in Mrigasira first quarter,

> > at night time, after 2 hours 48 minutes after the Sunset.

> >

> > If not wonder, what can we do about such accurate clear predictions

> > which make the verification of the validity of astrology possible! I

> > request all to apply and verify the accuracy of this truly verifiable

> > hypothesis put forward by many Rishi horas, and well clarified by

> > Bhattolpala with his example. If proved, only such methods can brig

> back

> > the lost glory of astrology back to its original status.

> >

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vishnu ji,//> 1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala.Has this method came from commentator and not from varahamihira?// I never said that this method is proposed by Bhattolpala; what I said is that "this EXAMPLE is given by Bhattolpala". Now who proposed this method? This is an age old method as given in the`Tatkala Indu Sahito' quote in Briahat Jataka of Varaha Mihira. And this reference provided by Mihira is based on the quotes on the same provided by Skanda Hora and Brihat Prajapatya - the oldest indian astrological source texts.//> 2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we

calculate the rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that

method compared to this?I guess it will be easier to follow the one

with query time.// There are many problems with the method for 'finding BT from querry time' by calculating the position of Sun etc. I have discussed this method in detail in the Birth Time rectification book written by me (the book is available for download in the files section of this group inside the folder named 'Sreenadh'). You can refer to this book for clarity on other methods for BT rectification available to us.//> 3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna" in kerala.?// Yes, there is a kind of prashna named 'Mithuna prasna' (Question on Intercourse). The method to approach such querries are guided by 'Yathasta rasir mithunam sameti....' etc quotes provided by Brihat Jataka and well elaborated by Prashana texts like Prashna marga. But all this has nothing to do with 'BT rectification or determination' (the subject discussed in this thread). Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Vishnu" <vishnumohanalj wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > > > As mentioned by sunil nair ji,finding conception time is very difficult.> > > nevertheless you put lot of effort to illustrate this method which is appreciable.> > > I have couple of questions> > 1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala.Has this method came from commentator and not from varahamihira?> > > 2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we calculate the rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that method compared to this?I guess it will be easier to follow the one with query time.> > > > 3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna" in kerala.Sorry i read abt in somewhere in a regional language book .so t> he name i quoted might be slightly different from what you use?> > > Thanks and best wishes> > vishnu> > > > > , "astro_tellerkerala" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear sreenadh Ji> > > > Many thanks for discussing this part which comes under Garbha adhana> > lagna determination tho we dont know which intercourse is the cause of> > Birth and here i think first we shud decode the Kujendu Hetu Pratimasa> > arthavam......... shloka --(Moon and mars is the cause of Monthly menses> > in ladies ) and decide which Moon position related with moon/ mars in> > possible for such a event and also in male chart also certain conditions> > are mentioned to see putrolpathi ( child bearing time ) periods .> > > > thanks for such nice thought provoking article> > > > rgrds sunil nair

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,// I never said that this method is proposed by Bhattolpala; what I said is that "this EXAMPLE is given by Bhattolpala" . Now who proposed this method? This is an age old method as given in the`Tatkala Indu Sahito' quote in Briahat Jataka of Varaha Mihira. And this reference provided by Mihira is based on the quotes on the same provided by Skanda Hora and Brihat Prajapatya - the oldest indian astrological source texts.//I just wanted to know the origin of the shloka.Thanks.Yes, there is a kind of prashna named 'Mithuna prasna' (Question on Intercourse) . The method to approach such querries are guided by 'Yathasta rasir mithunam sameti....' etc quotes provided by Brihat Jataka and well elaborated by Prashana texts like Prashna marga. But all this has nothing to do with 'BT rectification or determination' (the subject discussed in this thread).Yes,true. That was just a curious query.I remember reading somewhere that from this type of chart,the exact date

and time when she is going to deliver the baby could be found out and this is correct 95% of time.I cannot recollect the article where i saw this and the methods.//There are many problems with the method for 'finding BT from querry time' by calculating the position of Sun etc. I have discussed this method in detail in the Birth Time rectification book written by me//This method is obviosly confusing.If i understand correctly,there are 3 methods to determine the '' delivery time'' of a pregnant lady according to a single shloka from prasna Marga.You have also

mentioned that '' According to some astrologers'' the principle is extended to rectify the birth time for a baby that is already born using the lagna longitude of it.Looks like there is a confusion in this."'Delivery time"' from a Garbha prasna chart and the ''Birth time rectification'' from a natal chart are completely different.If i understand correctly Garbha prasna chart is a special type of prasna chart and it is difficult to apply the krishneeya author's principle which goes like this ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to prasna as well''So i believe ''the view of some astrologers'' could be possibly wrong unless they are able to demonstrate consistent results for the method proposed by them.I shall discuss about this more in another

mail.I should appreciate you for the compilation of this book which has authentic shlokas with valuable arguments and conclusions.Thanks and best wishesvishnu.--- On Sun, 1/3/10, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Re: Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpala Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 8:49 AM

 

 

 

Dear Vishnu ji,//> 1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala. Has this method came from commentator and not from varahamihira? // I never said that this method is proposed by Bhattolpala; what I said is that "this EXAMPLE is given by Bhattolpala" . Now who proposed this method? This is an age old method as given in the`Tatkala Indu Sahito' quote in Briahat Jataka of Varaha Mihira. And this reference provided by Mihira is based on the quotes on the same provided by Skanda Hora and Brihat Prajapatya - the oldest indian astrological source texts.//> 2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we

calculate the rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that

method compared to this?I guess it will be easier to follow the one

with query time.// There are many problems with the method for 'finding BT from querry time' by calculating the position of Sun etc. I have discussed this method in detail in the Birth Time rectification book written by me (the book is available for download in the files section of this group inside the folder named 'Sreenadh'). You can refer to this book for clarity on other methods for BT rectification available to us.//> 3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna" in kerala.?// Yes, there is a kind of prashna named 'Mithuna prasna' (Question on Intercourse) . The method to approach such querries are guided by 'Yathasta rasir mithunam sameti....' etc quotes provided by Brihat Jataka and well elaborated by Prashana texts like Prashna marga. But all this has nothing to do with 'BT rectification or determination' (the subject discussed in this thread). Love and

regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "Vishnu" <vishnumohanalj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > > > As mentioned by sunil nair ji,finding conception time is very difficult.> > > nevertheless you put lot of effort to illustrate this method which is appreciable.> > > I have couple of questions> > 1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala. Has this method came from commentator and not from varahamihira?> > > 2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we calculate the rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that method compared to this?I guess it will be easier to follow the one with query time.> > > > 3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna" in kerala.Sorry i read abt in somewhere in a regional language

book .so t> he name i quoted might be slightly different from what you use?> > > Thanks and best wishes> > vishnu> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "astro_tellerkerala " astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear sreenadh Ji> > > > Many thanks for discussing this part which comes under Garbha adhana> > lagna determination tho we dont know which intercourse is the cause of> > Birth and here i think first we shud decode the Kujendu Hetu Pratimasa> > arthavam.... ..... shloka --(Moon and mars is the cause of Monthly menses> > in ladies ) and decide which Moon position related with moon/ mars in> > possible for such a event and also in male chart also certain conditions> > are mentioned to see putrolpathi ( child bearing time ) periods .>

> > > thanks for such nice thought provoking article> > > > rgrds sunil nair

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,Sorry ,i messed with krishneeya author words.please read ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to jataka as well'' instead of ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to prasna as well''Thanks and best wishesvishnu--- On Sun, 1/3/10, Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj wrote:Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanaljRe: Re: Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpala Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 5:00 PM

 

 

Dear Sreenadhji,// I never said that this method is proposed by Bhattolpala; what I said is that "this EXAMPLE is given by Bhattolpala" . Now who proposed this method? This is an age old method as given in the`Tatkala Indu Sahito' quote in Briahat Jataka of Varaha Mihira. And this reference provided by Mihira is based on the quotes on the same provided by Skanda Hora and Brihat Prajapatya - the oldest indian astrological source texts.//I just wanted to know the origin of the shloka.Thanks.Yes, there is a kind of prashna named 'Mithuna prasna' (Question on Intercourse) . The method to approach such querries are guided by 'Yathasta rasir mithunam sameti....' etc quotes provided by Brihat Jataka and well elaborated by Prashana texts like Prashna marga. But all this has nothing to do with 'BT rectification or determination' (the subject discussed in this thread).Yes,true. That was just a curious query.I remember reading somewhere that from this type of chart,the exact date

and time when she is going to deliver the baby could be found out and this is correct 95% of time.I cannot recollect the article where i saw this and the methods.//There are many problems with the method for 'finding BT from querry time' by calculating the position of Sun etc. I have discussed this method in detail in the Birth Time rectification book written by me//This method is obviosly confusing.If i understand correctly,there are 3 methods to determine the '' delivery time'' of a pregnant lady according to a single shloka from prasna Marga.You have also

mentioned that '' According to some astrologers' ' the principle is extended to rectify the birth time for a baby that is already born using the lagna longitude of it.Looks like there is a confusion in this."'Delivery time"' from a Garbha prasna chart and the ''Birth time rectification'' from a natal chart are completely different.If i understand correctly Garbha prasna chart is a special type of prasna chart and it is difficult to apply the krishneeya author's principle which goes like this ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to prasna as well''So i believe ''the view of some astrologers'' could be possibly wrong unless they are able to demonstrate consistent results for the method proposed by them.I shall discuss about this more in another

mail.I should appreciate you for the compilation of this book which has authentic shlokas with valuable arguments and conclusions.Thanks and best wishesvishnu.--- On Sun, 1/3/10, sreesog <sreesog > wrote:sreesog <sreesog >[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpalaancient_indian_ astrologySunday, January 3, 2010, 8:49 AM

 

 

 

Dear Vishnu ji,//> 1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala. Has this method came from commentator and not from varahamihira? // I never said that this method is proposed by Bhattolpala; what I said is that "this EXAMPLE is given by Bhattolpala" . Now who proposed this method? This is an age old method as given in the`Tatkala Indu Sahito' quote in Briahat Jataka of Varaha Mihira. And this reference provided by Mihira is based on the quotes on the same provided by Skanda Hora and Brihat Prajapatya - the oldest indian astrological source texts.//> 2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we

calculate the rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that

method compared to this?I guess it will be easier to follow the one

with query time.// There are many problems with the method for 'finding BT from querry time' by calculating the position of Sun etc. I have discussed this method in detail in the Birth Time rectification book written by me (the book is available for download in the files section of this group inside the folder named 'Sreenadh'). You can refer to this book for clarity on other methods for BT rectification available to us.//> 3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna" in kerala.?// Yes, there is a kind of prashna named 'Mithuna prasna' (Question on Intercourse) . The method to approach such querries are guided by 'Yathasta rasir mithunam sameti....' etc quotes provided by Brihat Jataka and well elaborated by Prashana texts like Prashna marga. But all this has nothing to do with 'BT rectification or determination' (the subject discussed in this thread). Love and

regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "Vishnu" <vishnumohanalj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > > > As mentioned by sunil nair ji,finding conception time is very difficult.> > > nevertheless you put lot of effort to illustrate this method which is appreciable.> > > I have couple of questions> > 1.you mentioned this method is proposed by Bhattotpala. Has this method came from commentator and not from varahamihira?> > > 2.There is a method in prasna sangraha where from query time,we calculate the rasi ,navamsa position of sun at delivery ?How is that method compared to this?I guess it will be easier to follow the one with query time..> > > > 3.Is there any prasna by name " maithuna prasna" in kerala.Sorry i read abt in somewhere in a regional language

book .so t> he name i quoted might be slightly different from what you use?> > > Thanks and best wishes> > vishnu> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "astro_tellerkerala " astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear sreenadh Ji> > > > Many thanks for discussing this part which comes under Garbha adhana> > lagna determination tho we dont know which intercourse is the cause of> > Birth and here i think first we shud decode the Kujendu Hetu Pratimasa> > arthavam.... ..... shloka --(Moon and mars is the cause of Monthly menses> > in ladies ) and decide which Moon position related with moon/ mars in> > possible for such a event and also in male chart also certain conditions> > are mentioned to see putrolpathi ( child bearing time ) periods .>

> > > thanks for such nice thought provoking article> > > > rgrds sunil nair

[Guest guest]

Dear Vishnu Mohan ji, It is seems that you messed-up it again! The general advice is that -"Jatake yed-yad uddishtam, tat tat prashne api chintayet" meaning, "Whatever is told in Natal astrology (Jataka), all that applies to horory (Prasna) as well (with required modifications)". I am yet to see any quote or traditional advice that asks the astrologer to apply Prasna principles on Jataka. Please note that - * Muhurta is a kind of birth. Prashna is a birth of a querry. Prasna originated from Jataka. Therefore Jataka principles can be (and is) applicable to Prasna. It is just natural, and in tune with the traditional advice. * Jataka is NOT derived from Prasna. And Birth is NOT Prasna. Therefore 'usually' Prasna principles CANNNOT be applied to Jataka. It is not only unnatural, but also goes against the traditional advice as well. * Jataka principles are applicable to Prasna; but it is NOT vice-versa. Love and regards,Sreenadh , Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > Sorry ,i messed with krishneeya author words.> please read  ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to jataka as well''  instead of  ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to prasna as well''> > Thanks and best wishes> vishnu

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,Thanks for clearing this up.I had send a potentially wrong message to this large pool of readers hereIt was really a dangerous mix-up and i have to blame my memory.I am happy that i did not follow it so far as i had understood the principle you stated correctly but mixed it up while reproducing as sentence.It would be nice if somebody comes up with a prasna for a known family member with a known estimated date of delivery given by a doctor and we can test the 3 methods based on prasna marga/prasna samgraha quote and find which is close to the Estimated Date of Delivery(EDD) .The only problem is, we have to follow up and find when the baby is born as all

babies are not born term (EDD given by doctor).Thanks and best wishesvishnu--- On Sun, 1/3/10, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Re: Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpala Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 6:49 PM

 

 

 

Dear Vishnu Mohan ji, It is seems that you messed-up it again! The general advice is that -"Jatake yed-yad uddishtam, tat tat prashne api chintayet" meaning, "Whatever is told in Natal astrology (Jataka), all that applies to horory (Prasna) as well (with required modifications) ". I am yet to see any quote or traditional advice that asks the astrologer to apply Prasna principles on Jataka. Please note that - * Muhurta is a kind of birth.. Prashna is a birth of a querry. Prasna originated from Jataka. Therefore Jataka principles can be (and is) applicable to Prasna. It is just natural, and in tune with the traditional advice. * Jataka is NOT derived from Prasna. And Birth is NOT Prasna. Therefore 'usually' Prasna principles CANNNOT be applied to Jataka. It is not only

unnatural, but also goes against the traditional advice as well. * Jataka principles are applicable to Prasna; but it is NOT vice-versa. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > Sorry ,i messed with krishneeya author words.> please read  ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to jataka as well''  instead of  ''whatever is applicable in horary chart,applies to prasna as well''> > Thanks and best wishes> vishnu

[Guest guest]

Dear Vishnu ji,//It would be nice if somebody comes up with a prasna

for a known family member with a known estimated date of delivery given

by a doctor and we can test the 3 methods based on prasna marga/prasna

samgraha quote and find which is close to the Estimated Date of

Delivery(EDD) .// It would be better if we get the conception time in case of some known pregnancy and try to calculate the potential date and time of birth as per the guidance given by Bhattolpala. Trying the Prashna method demands many more pre-requisites, such as - * DIRECT INVOLVEMENT of the qurrent in raising the querry. (Prashnamarga and Dasadhyayi advices as that if the astrologer try to predict through Prashna without this, then he would be making himself a laughing stock in front of the learned audience). * A worthy Arudha. The best Arudhas suggested by Prashnamarga are in the order - Primary: Stityarudha, Swarnarudha (In both cases, direct involvement of the native is present). Secondary: Then other arudhas such as Arudha taken by the astrologer using Kawri, Lagna, Lagnamsaka, Tamboolarudha, Chatra, Veedhi, Sprishtanga lagna, Prashnakshara lagna etc etc. Since both the direct involvement of the qurrent and determination of a worthy arudha is NOT possible in such an 'experimental querry', the chances of the derivations becoming correct decreases and the chances of the individual attending such an experimental question without proper understanding of the essence of traditional advice becoming a laughing stock before the audience increases. Please note that Jataka is more solid and permenent compared to Prasna. Therefore try your techniques first in Jataka, ensure their reliability and then try applying the same (in a modified way) in Prasna. As per traditional advice this is the way to be followed.Love and regards,Sreenadh , Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > Thanks for clearing this up.I had  send a potentially wrong message to this large pool of readers here> > It was really a dangerous mix-up and i have to blame my memory.I am happy that i did not follow it so far as i had understood the principle you stated correctly but mixed it up while reproducing as sentence.> > > It would be nice if somebody comes up with a prasna for a known family member with a known estimated date of delivery given by a doctor  and we can test the 3 methods based on prasna marga/prasna samgraha quote and find which is close to the Estimated Date of Delivery(EDD) .> > > The only problem is, we have to follow up and find when the baby is born as all babies are not born term (EDD given by doctor).> > Thanks and best wishes> vishnu

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,You are right regarding Arudhas.Direct involvement of the querent is most required.Otherwise we can try a prasna chart for a known relative who is pregnant and has a EDD.The practical difficulties with Conception chart is the availability of data.So far i have not come across any body demonstrating this method as they themselves in a husband-wife relation do not know which union caused conception.probably in cases of rape or single union during the week and confirmed pregnancy ,this could be used but the possibilities of getting such data are remote .Nowadays nobody asks the delivery date as they know the EDD from the doctor and in olden

days also the concept of EDD which is 277 days from the last day of menstrual period should be known to women through the doctors.What do you think could be the need for the methods to be given by the sages and acharyas?Thanks and best wishesvishnu.--- On Mon, 1/4/10, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Re: Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpala Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:13 AM

 

 

 

Dear Vishnu ji,//It would be nice if somebody comes up with a prasna

for a known family member with a known estimated date of delivery given

by a doctor and we can test the 3 methods based on prasna marga/prasna

samgraha quote and find which is close to the Estimated Date of

Delivery(EDD) .// It would be better if we get the conception time in case of some known pregnancy and try to calculate the potential date and time of birth as per the guidance given by Bhattolpala. Trying the Prashna method demands many more pre-requisites, such as - * DIRECT INVOLVEMENT of the qurrent in raising the querry. (Prashnamarga and Dasadhyayi advices as that if the astrologer try to predict through Prashna without this, then he would be making himself a laughing stock in front of the learned audience). * A worthy Arudha. The best Arudhas suggested by Prashnamarga are in the order - Primary: Stityarudha, Swarnarudha (In both cases, direct involvement of the native is present). Secondary: Then other arudhas such as Arudha taken by the astrologer using Kawri, Lagna, Lagnamsaka, Tamboolarudha, Chatra, Veedhi, Sprishtanga lagna, Prashnakshara lagna etc etc. Since

both the direct involvement of the qurrent and determination of a worthy arudha is NOT possible in such an 'experimental querry', the chances of the derivations becoming correct decreases and the chances of the individual attending such an experimental question without proper understanding of the essence of traditional advice becoming a laughing stock before the audience increases. Please note that Jataka is more solid and permenent compared to Prasna. Therefore try your techniques first in Jataka, ensure their reliability and then try applying the same (in a modified way) in Prasna. As per traditional advice this is the way to be followed.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > Thanks for clearing this up.I had  send a potentially wrong message to this large pool of readers

here> > It was really a dangerous mix-up and i have to blame my memory.I am happy that i did not follow it so far as i had understood the principle you stated correctly but mixed it up while reproducing as sentence.> > > It would be nice if somebody comes up with a prasna for a known family member with a known estimated date of delivery given by a doctor  and we can test the 3 methods based on prasna marga/prasna samgraha quote and find which is close to the Estimated Date of Delivery(EDD) .> > > The only problem is, we have to follow up and find when the baby is born as all babies are not born term (EDD given by doctor).> > Thanks and best wishes> vishnu

[Guest guest]

Dear Vishnu Mohan ji, //What do you think could be the need for the methods to be given by the sages and acharyas?// Because they regarded 'Intercourse' as a divine act creation; a yajna; a homa; a havana; cultivation of the new generation; the divine acting of seed being planted in the fertile female land (Beeja and Khetra) to repeat the act of god of CREATION. It was a Tapas; a prayer; a very divine act. Definitely it was not just a simple act of pleasure for them an accident among which causes a damn child. This is why, in earlier times a Muhurta was usually determined for 'Addhana' (intercourse) and done by giving utmost importance to time of intercourse. For the learned and cultured ancients determination of 'time of intercourse' was not that difficult and so must have been the calculation of possible BT based on the same. It is another thing that it is not so now a days. So they had a purpose and a clear system when they proposed it; but we are all damn hopeless (trapped in sex and sex alone!). Note: Anyway I am not against sex or life. Tantrics accepts sex without prejudice. But presenting it the above ways serves a purpose - I believe. ;)Love and regards,Sreenadh , Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > You are right regarding Arudhas.> > Direct involvement of the querent is most required.Otherwise we can try a prasna chart for a known relative who is pregnant and has a EDD.> > The practical difficulties with Conception chart is the availability of data.So far i have not come across any body demonstrating this method as they themselves  in a husband-wife relation do not know which union caused conception.> > probably in cases of rape or single union during the week and confirmed pregnancy ,this could be used but the possibilities of getting such data are remote .> > Nowadays nobody asks the delivery date as they know the EDD from the doctor and in olden days also the concept of EDD which is 277 days from the last day of menstrual period should be known to women through the doctors.> > What do you think could be the need for the methods to be given by the sages and acharyas?> > > Thanks and best wishes> vishnu.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh jiYour point of view regarding ancient life is excellent.Of course Sex is one of the main ways through which Brahma continues human creation in this earth not to discount the scientific developments like test tube babies.//This is why, in earlier times a Muhurta was usually determined for 'Addhana' (intercourse) and done by giving utmost importance to time of intercourse. //I think the practice of fixing Muhurtha for intercourse(usually 3rd day after marriage if i am not wrong and prohibited tithis & other factors dont interfere) is still prevalent in some parts of India.But i am not sure how

strictly it is followed by the married couple unless customs prevent them from being together to that day since the day of marriage.I am just curious to know whether the ''shanthi muhurtha'' time fixed by the purohits(in my part i ahve seen astrologer do it) is such a time only, when intercourse happens,the progeny will be a ''male'' as the concept of ancients was to beget a ''putra'' to perform final rites of the parents and to protect them from one of the hells named "put"'.I just meant to ask whether the purohits determine the ''adhana muhurtha time'' based on the expected offspring being a male or just any child?Thanks and best wishesvishnu--- On Mon, 1/4/10, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Re: Time of Intercourse and an Example for BT determination by Bhattolpala Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:13 PM

 

 

 

Dear Vishnu Mohan ji, //What do you think could be the need for the methods to be given by the sages and acharyas?// Because they regarded 'Intercourse' as a divine act creation; a yajna; a homa; a havana; cultivation of the new generation; the divine acting of seed being planted in the fertile female land (Beeja and Khetra) to repeat the act of god of CREATION. It was a Tapas; a prayer; a very divine act. Definitely it was not just a simple act of pleasure for them an accident among which causes a damn child. This is why, in earlier times a Muhurta was usually determined for 'Addhana' (intercourse) and done by giving utmost importance to time of intercourse. For the learned and cultured ancients determination of 'time of intercourse' was not that difficult and so must have been the calculation of possible BT based on the same. It is another thing that

it is not so now a days. So they had a purpose and a clear system when they proposed it; but we are all damn hopeless (trapped in sex and sex alone!).. Note: Anyway I am not against sex or life. Tantrics accepts sex without prejudice. But presenting it the above ways serves a purpose - I believe. ;)Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj@ ....> wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > You are right regarding Arudhas.> > Direct involvement of the querent is most required.Otherwise we can try a prasna chart for a known relative who is pregnant and has a EDD.> > The practical difficulties with Conception chart is the availability of data.So far i have not come across any body demonstrating this method as they themselves  in a husband-wife relation do not know which union caused

conception.> > probably in cases of rape or single union during the week and confirmed pregnancy ,this could be used but the possibilities of getting such data are remote .> > Nowadays nobody asks the delivery date as they know the EDD from the doctor and in olden days also the concept of EDD which is 277 days from the last day of menstrual period should be known to women through the doctors.> > What do you think could be the need for the methods to be given by the sages and acharyas?> > > Thanks and best wishes> vishnu.