Fwd: On Seeing Deities from the 12th from Karakamsa

September 17, 2009

Om Namah Sivaya

Dear Sri Narasimha,

This is reference to your recent post on Sohamsa List about devotion from Vimsamsa.

The logic you used seems to be correct. My appreciations to you, yet kindly go through the following points.

Before going to the discussion on charts, let me state that reckoning houses and Argala for Rahu and Ketu was clearly explained by Krishna Mishra. I dont know whether it is explained in BPHS, if it was how this was missed by scholars ?

There are some Jaimini commentaries which take "Tatviparitam Rahu Ketvoh" for the Argala.

Please take the below combinations referred by me worth of their salt. I will not be availble for the discussions on them.

In the most of the charts you discussed in the post, the Krishna Mishra Navamsa works wonderful. To the best of my ability, I explained the Jaimini concepts using Krishna Mishra Navamsa in my my article "Jaimini Navamsa" published in Saptarishia Astrology magazine and of course with most of the same natives you explained.

Below, I explain the Jaimini pointers with Krishna Mishra Navamsa. I am writing this mail spontaneously and any errors may kindly be forgiven.

1. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, explained in the article as how Durga becomes Ishta Devata.

2. Sarada Mata - No planet occupies the 12th from AK in Jaimini Navamsa, yet the aspect of Rahu from 9th house of Karakamsa, on 12th lord Mars explains the influence on Durga. Also look at the conjunction of Rahu with Yogada Saturn which contributed to a large extent.

3. Swami Vivekananda - It was a very clear principle from Jaimini thought that how Influence of Jupiter on 12th makes a person "Bramhatma Vadi" and a Vedanti. Look at the two best benefic planet Jupiter and Venus in 12th from AK. Though there is aspect of Rahu on the combination, which doesn't make much difference.

Swami Vivekananda is considered great philosopher and excelled in Vedanta which is a clear attributes of Jupiter influence and if we take D-20 as you suggested, only there is Rahu and Ketu influence which doen't suffice.

4. In case of Swami Trigunatitananda chart, 12th from AK Jupiter, occupied by Mercury and Mars shows the influence of Vaishnava. Look at Mercury is strong being in friends house. There was a clear dictum from Ancient Jaimini works that aspect of Moon sign lord / Moon / or Jupiter leads to traditional Vishnavism. If we take D-20, there is a clear influence of Rahu / Ketu which never attributed to Vaishnavism except the apect of Saturn from Virgo.

5. Srila Prabhupada - I have clearly explained in my article.

Look at the Krishna Mishra Navamsa, Saturn, Ketu and Jupiter occupied the 12th from AK Moon (As you know, we dont consider Rahu to be AK). It clearly shows the connection of Vaishnavism (Saturn).

There is a clear dictum that Saturn in conjunction with Jupiter makes a person a Vaishnavite and follows Ramanuja Sampradaya. Look athe aspect of Venus from Saturn house (Madhva mata Sampradaya) on the 12th lord Mars. Goudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya is believed to be initiated by a Madhvacharya.

The connection of Ketu in 12th inself shows the highest spirtual experience and liberation.

The debilitation of Saturn is lessned by conjunction of Jupiter.

If we take AK as Rahu and D-20 and your logic, we get Jupiter in 12th in debilitation, which is detrimental for spirtuality.

6. Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swami, I dont have his chart and hence can't comment.

7. In case of Ramana Maharshi, he is known not for his devotion towards Lord Shiva. He is a Vedanti, which is clearly shown by the Ketu in 12th from AK Moon. The aspect of Moon sign lord Mercury, Venus lessen the aspect of Mars on Ketu. It is a clear dictum the combination of Mars, Venus, Rahu, Saturn with a Jupiter leads a person to a Sanyasi (Virakti). Though the combination doen't occur in this chart in full pledged manner. Yet, look at aspect of Jupiter, Saturn and Rahu on 12th lord Venus making him a Sanyasi. (Is it also called Avadhuta).

Kindly verify whether this much clarity is seen in D-20 as well.

8. Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati - Look at the aspect of Juputer, Sun and Mars on 12th of AK Saturn. It is enough to understand his devotion towards Lord Shiva.

9. In case of Prof Krishnamurthi, AK is Mars and 12th from him is not occupied by anu planet. A strong influence of Sun, Rahu (from 5th) and Ketu on debilitated Mars led him to Uchhista Ganapati Upasana. This is the only info I have regarding Sri Krishna Murthi and can't comment much on his Ishta Devata.

10. By entering the details given by you I get AK as Moon and you write AK Saturn, so no comment.

11. In case of Paramahamsa Yogananda, the AK Venus in Sg with Jupiter and Moon and Mercury in 5th from it shows the wonderful learning in tradition. The connection of Jup, Venus, Moon and Mercury on Karakamsa and its 5th indicate the person a (Prabandha Karta), shows why his autobiography of a Yogi is so revered in the world.

12th is unpccupied, having aspects from Rahu, Saturn and Ketu and Mercury and Moon. Lord Mars is influenced by Venus and Jupiter. So almost all the planets excepting Sun influence the 12th house. As explained in Ramana Maharshi case, the influence of Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, and Rahu leads a person into Renunciation.

The above combinations, I culled from the Jaimini commentaries available with us. Here, as well, I am sticking to the basics. So, my humble request to all is not to ignore the valuable other Jaimini resouces. If we ignore them for the sake of our ignorance of Sanskrit language or the complexity of the Jaimini System, we will be at loss as our earlier generations have been.

Warm regards,

Shanmukhasohamsa , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:Namaste,Reply to Michal Dziwulski:> Sharada Ma - Moon AK and Jupiter is in the 12th from it in D20. It is aspected by Rahu, Mercury, and Ketu.> > Srila Prabhupada - Rahu AK, Jupiter in the 12th (counted in reverse?) who is dispositer of Ketu conjoined AK.> > Ramakrishna - Moon and Venus are in the 12th (counted in reverse?).As I indicated in the example of Swami Ramakrishnananda, I am taking the 12th *house* from AK in D-20 using the divisional longitude of AK. I am not taking an entire sign as a house. Using that approach, one sees that Sarada Mata and Srila Prabhupada do not have Jupiter in 12th. Ramakrishna has Moon in 12th house from AK, but 12th lords join Ketu. Parasara's formulas give importance to Ketu and I am preferring a factor affecting 12th house that also has a Ketu link. I mentioned this point in Ramana Maharshi example, where I took the aspect on empty 12th house rather than 12th lord.> Another point I would like for you to consider - Parasara says trouble> from rats and cats come from 'mesaamsha'. Amsha here could be any> division right? As it is trouble being referred to - would amsa here> refer to D6?Well, if "amsa" always means navamsa, Parasara would not define 16 amsas and list the matters to be seen from each! Obviously, amsa can mean a different division based on the matters under discussion. The "master key" is given at the beginning itself.Having not looked at examples of this, I do not want to comment on whether amsa means D-6 or D-30 or something else here.Reply to Medha Raja:> Does it means that you do not take into consideration at all the opinion of> Irangati and other jyotishas who would look into Krishna Misra Navamsa and> see Deity from there ?Pt Sanjay Rath takes regular navamsa. Sri Iranganti Rangacharya apparently takes Krishna Misra Navamsa as you say. If one reads Parasara *carefully* (the maharshi does not leave anything to chance or ambiguity and arranges his teachings in such a way that an intelligent person can figure out even seemingly left out things), it clearly suggests vimsamsa.I cannot take all the contradictory opinions into account and have one coherent method. I have to reject some opinions.My approach is to give priority to Parasara's teachings, especially when I am able to convince myself based on practical testing.Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> Namaste,> > I mentioned a formula that occurs commonly in the charts of spiritual greats, though it is not that common in regular charts. The long discussion on sohamsa that followed that post ignored the actual formula and its building blocks and focused on other things. I want to say more on one important building block used in that formula.> > * * *> > In the chapter called "kaarakaamsa phala" in BPHS, Parasara mentioned the deities worshipped based on the planets in the 12th from kaarakaamsha. For example, Sun in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Shiva and Moon in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Gouri.> > The term "kaarakaamsa" means "AK's amsa". Amsa only means division. Which amsa or division is Parasara referring to?> > Though people jumped to the conclusion that amsa means navaamsa by default, there is one more important thing to consider here. At the onset itself, Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which purposes. He clearly said "upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake", meaning "the knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in D-20".> > If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are worshipped based on the 12th house from AK in an "amsa", can the amsa in question be anything other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said one's upaasanaa is seen from D-20. So the principles laid out later by Parasara for upaasanaa *must* be referring to D-20 by "amsa" and *not* D-9 as people normally take.> > * * *> > People faithfully follow tradition and suggest specific ishta devatas to people. However, had some spiritual greats who were liberated by the grace of a deity come to us, we would've probably prescribed a different deity to them. There are several examples and I will share a few here.> > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's AK Rahu is in Cp in D-9 and Sun (Raama/Maatangi) is alone in 12th owned by Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa). Pt Sanjay Rath once argued with me that Lord Rama (Sun) is Ramakrishna's ishta devata and tried to justify it alluding to things from Ramakrishna's childhood. He also said that Tara (Jupiter) is Ramakrishna's ishta devata, because the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar temple was called "Bhava Taarini" (one who makes one cross the material world).> > Such logic is unreasonable. Bottomline is that Ramakrishna revered and surrendered to mother Kaali. He saw her in an idol, in a cat, in a flower, in the entire creation and in the light that fills the entire universe. The one who appears scary to several was a beautiful and loving mother to him and She guided his life completely and liberated him. Even before entering nirvikalpa samadhi (a state beyond forms, including the Kaali form), he asked Kaali for permission. That shows what Kaali meant to him! If Jyotish principles you use show Raama or Taaraa as his ishta devata, probably your knowledge is incomplete or incorrect.> > In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Sg in D-9 and Sc is empty. Mars and Ketu own it. One would've suggested Narasimha or Bagalamukhi for Mars or Matsyavatara or Dhumavati for Ketu. Her life too was guided (and liberated) by mother Kaali.> > In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Sg. Jupiter is in 12th and Mars owns it. One would've suggested Vaamana or Taaraa for Jupiter or Narasimha or Bagalamukhi for Mars. Swamiji was into Gayatri mantra and Chandipath. He saw Kaali as a girl and talked to her for most of the second half of his life and derived his energy from her. He remarked in his last few days that the girl Kaali who was around him and giving him energy was no longer visible. If one has saayujya (togetherness) of a deity while living and the deity is constantly guiding one, that definitely must be one's ishta devata.> > For Ramana Maharshi, 12th from AK Moon contains Ketu in navamsa and Venus owns and aspects 12th. However, he obtained liberation guided by Shiva at Arunachalam.> > * * *> > If we cannot see the correct deity in the case of spiritual giants who succeeded by surrendering to a specific deity, what good are our principles and how well can we guide people?> > * * *> > I suggest going back to Parasara and using D-20 instead of D-9. There is one special point when Rahu is AK.> > Planets have argala on the 3rd, 10th and 12th houses from them. Parasara taught that these houses are counted *anti-zodiacally* when we find the argala of *Rahu and Ketu* on various signs and planets. This makes sense intuitively, as Rahu and Ketu move anti-zodiacally. What Rahu considers as the 1st or 2nd house from him would be based on his anti-zodiacal movement. If 0-30 deg from the longitude of Mars is 1st house from Mars, 30-60 deg from the longitude of Mars is 2nd house from Mars and so on, as Parasara taught in BPHS, then 360-330 deg from Rahu's longitude must be the 1st house from Rahu and 330-300 deg from Rahu's longitude must be the 2nd house from Rahu and so on. Even in the evaluation of chara karakas, Parasara mentioned subtracting Rahu's progress in sign from 30 deg and that is consistent with this entire philosophy.> > Thus, I conclude that houses should be reckoned anti-zodiacally from Rahu, if Rahu is AK.> > * * *> > Now, let us revisit previous examples. I am using Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will stick to Parasara's approach and build on it, rather than use the list of dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. For example, Sun shows Shiva according to Parasara, when influencing the 12th from AK in amsa (D-20). I will not take Sun to show Rama or Maatangi. Instead of trying to see trees without checking if we are in the right forest, let us first focus on seeing the forest.> > In the case of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, AK Rahu is in Cp in D-20. The 12th house counted anti-zodiacally is Aq, owned by Saturn and Rahu, who are together with Ketu in Cp. As per Parasara, Rahu (and also Saturn sometimes) shows taamasik deities such as Durga ("taamasIm durgaaM", said Parasara) and ugra devatas. Out of the deities listed by Parasara, this is the group that Kaali would fall in.> > In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Ta in D-20. The 12th house is Ar, owned by Mars. Mars is with Saturn in Aq and both aspect Ar. Rahu and Ketu also aspect it. The influence of Aq, Saturn and Rahu is coming again, like in Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Again Kaali is fine.> > In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Pi in D-20. The 12th from him is Aq containing Rahu and Ketu and Saturn owns it. Again, the same influence as the above two charts is seen, which makes sense.> > See, the three of them have the same influences on the 12th from AK in D-20!> > Just to contrast, let us take another sishya of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, who was a Vaishnava. Take Swami Trigunatitananda (1865 Jan 30, 9:26 pm LMT, Naora, India). AK Jupiter is in Cn In D-20. The 12th is Ge and is empty. Only Saturn aspects it from Vi. Mercury owns Ge. The influence of Mercury and Saturn according to Parasara shows a devotee of Vishnu. Swami Trigunatitananda was indeed a Vaishnava.> > In the case of Srila Prabhupada, AK Rahu is in Sg. The 12th from him reckoned anti-zodiacally is Cp. Its lord Saturn is in Gemini owned Mercury and aspected by Mercury. Saturn and Mercury show Vaishnavas. He realized god through his surrender to Krishna, a form of Vishnu.> > In the case of Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swami (in the parampara of Ramanujacharya), AK Moon is in Cn in D-20. The 12th house Ge is owned by Mercury and Saturn occupies it. He has realized whatever he has realized so far, through devotion to Vishnu.> > In the case of Ramana Maharshi, AK Moon is in Aq in D-20. The 12th from him is Cp. It is empty. Jupiter with nodes in a friendly sign aspects it. Parasara emphasized connection with Ketu in his formulas for 12th from AK. So, we will take Jupiter's aspect on Cp to be more important than Saturn's ownership. Jupiter shows Shiva. Ramana Maharshi was devoted to Shiva at Arunachalam and realized Self.> > In the case of Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, AK Saturn is in Cp in D-20. The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter. He too was devoted to Shiva and realized Self.> > Take Prof. K.S. Krishnamoorthy (1908 November 1, 12:11 pm IST, Thiruvaiyaru), the inventer of KP. His AK Rahu is in Sc in D-20. The 12th from it reckoned anti-zodiacally is Sg. Its lord Jupiter is in Sc with 4 other planets. The strongest influence there is that of Ketu. Moreover, Sg is Ketu's exaltation sign. He was devoted to Ganapathi.> > Take a person with birthdata 1968 March 19 evening, India. AK Saturn is in Vi in D-20. The 12th lord from him is in a Martian sign. Mars in moolatrikona is aspecting 12th and 12th lord. His dominating influence suggests Kartikeya. He indeed practiced a Subrahmanya mantra and had several mystical experiences and making good progress towards realization.> > In the case of Swami Ramakrishnananda (disciple of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa), steadfast devotion to spiritual master was the liberating factor. He constantly served Ramakrishna when he was here and worshipped his relics everyday without fail after he left. Once he requested Ramakrishna for some spiritual experiences, seeing the experiences and ecstasy of other disciples. When Ramakrishna said, "I can do that. But you will not be able to serve me after that", he withdrew his request and said he was then not interested in any experiences! He became liberated through complete surrender, perfect devotion and tireless service to his guru. He was born on 1863 July 13 at 4:56 am LMT at Ichchapur, India. His AK Sun is in Aq in D-20. There are 3 planets in Cp, but only Jupiter is in the 12th house from Sun, based on Sun's divisional longitude in D-20.> > In the case of Paramahamsa Yogananda (of kriya yoga and "Self-Realization Fellowship" and author of "Autobiography of a Yogi"), AK Venus is in Ar in D-20. The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter, who joins nodes. Jupiter can show Shiva, but he can also show surrender to a great guru, like in the above example. Paramahamsa Yogananda may have worshipped several deities, but his surrender to his guru Yukteshwar Maharaj (whom he met at 17) and guru parampara (from Mahavatar Babaji) is what liberated him.> > * * *> > You can see that I am sticking to the basic classification instead of using dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. If the 12th from AK in navamsa has Jupiter, some suggest Vaamana and some suggest Taaraa, while Pararsara said Shiva. It is important to see the forest first and then try to see the trees. Clearly, Parasara's indications in BPHS show that the 12th from AK in amsa (D-20) is meant to see the forest (Shiva or Vishnu or Gouri or Kartikeya etc). Seeing the specific form of Vishnu or Shiva or Gouri etc must be from other modifying factors. I will not go into that. But, I want to emphasize that going into trees without making sure you are in the right forest is not so wise!> > There seem to be corruptions in our current knowledge. Going back to Parasara faithfully, thinking logically and simplifying things will be helpful in getting more consistent results, in many areas. Unless the principles one uses are verified based on reliable data (e.g. charts of people who indeed made great spiritual progress by worshipping a specific deity), they just remain theoretical and their utility questionable.> > Best regards,> Narasimha--- End forwarded message ---

September 18, 2009

Dear Shanmukha ji,

Thankyou again for explaining the uses Krishna Mishra Navamsha at

selection of Ishta Devta.

Does this Navamsha has other application also. Did you tried using this

navamsha at other aspects of life ?

Kindly give us your opinion in this regards.

Thankyou,

Regards,

Vijay Goel

Jaipiur.

, " teli_sha2002 "

<teli_sha2002 wrote:

>

> Om Namah Sivaya Dear Sri Narasimha, This is reference to your

recent

> post on Sohamsa List about devotion from Vimsamsa. The logic you

used

> seems to be correct. My appreciations to you, yet kindly go through

the

> following points. Before going to the discussion on charts, let me

> state that reckoning houses and Argala for Rahu and Ketu was clearly

> explained by Krishna Mishra. I dont know whether it is explained in

> BPHS, if it was how this was missed by scholars ? There are some

> Jaimini commentaries which take " Tatviparitam Rahu Ketvoh " for the

> Argala. Please take the below combinations referred by me worth of

> their salt. I will not be availble for the discussions on them. In

the

> most of the charts you discussed in the post, the Krishna Mishra

Navamsa

> works wonderful. To the best of my ability, I explained the Jaimini

> concepts using Krishna Mishra Navamsa in my my article " Jaimini

Navamsa "

> published in Saptarishia Astrology magazine and of course with most of

> the same natives you explained. Below, I explain the Jaimini

pointers

> with Krishna Mishra Navamsa. I am writing this mail spontaneously and

> any errors may kindly be forgiven. 1. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,

> explained in the article as how Durga becomes Ishta Devata. 2.

Sarada

> Mata - No planet occupies the 12th from AK in Jaimini Navamsa, yet the

> aspect of Rahu from 9th house of Karakamsa, on 12th lord Mars explains

> the influence on Durga. Also look at the conjunction of Rahu with

Yogada

> Saturn which contributed to a large extent. 3. Swami Vivekananda -

It

> was a very clear principle from Jaimini thought that how Influence of

> Jupiter on 12th makes a person " Bramhatma Vadi " and a Vedanti. Look at

> the two best benefic planet Jupiter and Venus in 12th from AK. Though

> there is aspect of Rahu on the combination, which doesn't make much

> difference. Swami Vivekananda is considered great philosopher and

> excelled in Vedanta which is a clear attributes of Jupiter influence

and

> if we take D-20 as you suggested, only there is Rahu and Ketu

influence

> which doen't suffice. 4. In case of Swami Trigunatitananda chart,

12th

> from AK Jupiter, occupied by Mercury and Mars shows the influence of

> Vaishnava. Look at Mercury is strong being in friends house. There was

a

> clear dictum from Ancient Jaimini works that aspect of Moon sign lord

/

> Moon / or Jupiter leads to traditional Vishnavism. If we take D-20,

> there is a clear influence of Rahu / Ketu which never attributed to

> Vaishnavism except the apect of Saturn from Virgo. 5. Srila

Prabhupada

> - I have clearly explained in my article. Look at the Krishna Mishra

> Navamsa, Saturn, Ketu and Jupiter occupied the 12th from AK Moon (As

you

> know, we dont consider Rahu to be AK). It clearly shows the connection

> of Vaishnavism (Saturn). There is a clear dictum that Saturn in

> conjunction with Jupiter makes a person a Vaishnavite and follows

> Ramanuja Sampradaya. Look athe aspect of Venus from Saturn house

(Madhva

> mata Sampradaya) on the 12th lord Mars. Goudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya

is

> believed to be initiated by a Madhvacharya. The connection of Ketu

in

> 12th inself shows the highest spirtual experience and liberation. The

> debilitation of Saturn is lessned by conjunction of Jupiter. If we

> take AK as Rahu and D-20 and your logic, we get Jupiter in 12th in

> debilitation, which is detrimental for spirtuality. 6. Tridandi

Chinna

> Jeeyar Swami, I dont have his chart and hence can't comment. 7. In

> case of Ramana Maharshi, he is known not for his devotion towards Lord

> Shiva. He is a Vedanti, which is clearly shown by the Ketu in 12th

from

> AK Moon. The aspect of Moon sign lord Mercury, Venus lessen the aspect

> of Mars on Ketu. It is a clear dictum the combination of Mars, Venus,

> Rahu, Saturn with a Jupiter leads a person to a Sanyasi (Virakti).

> Though the combination doen't occur in this chart in full pledged

> manner. Yet, look at aspect of Jupiter, Saturn and Rahu on 12th lord

> Venus making him a Sanyasi. (Is it also called Avadhuta). Kindly

> verify whether this much clarity is seen in D-20 as well. 8. Swami

> Chandrasekhara Saraswati - Look at the aspect of Juputer, Sun and Mars

> on 12th of AK Saturn. It is enough to understand his devotion towards

> Lord Shiva. 9. In case of Prof Krishnamurthi, AK is Mars and 12th

from

> him is not occupied by anu planet. A strong influence of Sun, Rahu

(from

> 5th) and Ketu on debilitated Mars led him to Uchhista Ganapati

Upasana.

> This is the only info I have regarding Sri Krishna Murthi and can't

> comment much on his Ishta Devata. 10. By entering the details given

by

> you I get AK as Moon and you write AK Saturn, so no comment. 11. In

> case of Paramahamsa Yogananda, the AK Venus in Sg with Jupiter and

Moon

> and Mercury in 5th from it shows the wonderful learning in tradition.

> The connection of Jup, Venus, Moon and Mercury on Karakamsa and its

5th

> indicate the person a (Prabandha Karta), shows why his autobiography

of

> a Yogi is so revered in the world. 12th is unpccupied, having

aspects

> from Rahu, Saturn and Ketu and Mercury and Moon. Lord Mars is

influenced

> by Venus and Jupiter. So almost all the planets excepting Sun

influence

> the 12th house. As explained in Ramana Maharshi case, the influence of

> Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, and Rahu leads a person into Renunciation.

> The above combinations, I culled from the Jaimini commentaries

available

> with us. Here, as well, I am sticking to the basics. So, my humble

> request to all is not to ignore the valuable other Jaimini resouces.

If

> we ignore them for the sake of our ignorance of Sanskrit language or

the

> complexity of the Jaimini System, we will be at loss as our earlier

> generations have been. Warm regards, Shanmukha

> sohamsa , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> Reply to Michal Dziwulski:

>

> > Sharada Ma - Moon AK and Jupiter is in the 12th from it in D20. It

is

> aspected by Rahu, Mercury, and Ketu.

> >

> > Srila Prabhupada - Rahu AK, Jupiter in the 12th (counted in

reverse?)

> who is dispositer of Ketu conjoined AK.

> >

> > Ramakrishna - Moon and Venus are in the 12th (counted in reverse?).

>

> As I indicated in the example of Swami Ramakrishnananda, I am taking

the

> 12th *house* from AK in D-20 using the divisional longitude of AK. I

am

> not taking an entire sign as a house. Using that approach, one sees

that

> Sarada Mata and Srila Prabhupada do not have Jupiter in 12th.

> Ramakrishna has Moon in 12th house from AK, but 12th lords join Ketu.

> Parasara's formulas give importance to Ketu and I am preferring a

factor

> affecting 12th house that also has a Ketu link. I mentioned this point

> in Ramana Maharshi example, where I took the aspect on empty 12th

house

> rather than 12th lord.

>

> > Another point I would like for you to consider - Parasara says

trouble

> > from rats and cats come from 'mesaamsha'. Amsha here could be any

> > division right? As it is trouble being referred to - would amsa here

> > refer to D6?

>

> Well, if " amsa " always means navamsa, Parasara would not define 16

amsas

> and list the matters to be seen from each! Obviously, amsa can mean a

> different division based on the matters under discussion. The " master

> key " is given at the beginning itself.

>

> Having not looked at examples of this, I do not want to comment on

> whether amsa means D-6 or D-30 or something else here.

>

> Reply to Medha Raja:

>

> > Does it means that you do not take into consideration at all the

> opinion of

> > Irangati and other jyotishas who would look into Krishna Misra

Navamsa

> and

> > see Deity from there ?

>

> Pt Sanjay Rath takes regular navamsa. Sri Iranganti Rangacharya

> apparently takes Krishna Misra Navamsa as you say. If one reads

Parasara

> *carefully* (the maharshi does not leave anything to chance or

ambiguity

> and arranges his teachings in such a way that an intelligent person

can

> figure out even seemingly left out things), it clearly suggests

> vimsamsa.

>

> I cannot take all the contradictory opinions into account and have one

> coherent method. I have to reject some opinions.

>

> My approach is to give priority to Parasara's teachings, especially

when

> I am able to convince myself based on practical testing.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> > Namaste,

> >

> > I mentioned a formula that occurs commonly in the charts of

spiritual

> greats, though it is not that common in regular charts. The long

> discussion on sohamsa that followed that post ignored the actual

formula

> and its building blocks and focused on other things. I want to say

more

> on one important building block used in that formula.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > In the chapter called " kaarakaamsa phala " in BPHS, Parasara

mentioned

> the deities worshipped based on the planets in the 12th from

> kaarakaamsha. For example, Sun in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of

> Shiva and Moon in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Gouri.

> >

> > The term " kaarakaamsa " means " AK's amsa " . Amsa only means division.

> Which amsa or division is Parasara referring to?

> >

> > Though people jumped to the conclusion that amsa means navaamsa by

> default, there is one more important thing to consider here. At the

> onset itself, Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for

> which purposes. He clearly said " upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM

> viMshati bhaagake " , meaning " the knowledge of one's worship and

> spiritual practices is possible in D-20 " .

> >

> > If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are

> worshipped based on the 12th house from AK in an " amsa " , can the amsa

in

> question be anything other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said

one's

> upaasanaa is seen from D-20. So the principles laid out later by

> Parasara for upaasanaa *must* be referring to D-20 by " amsa " and *not*

> D-9 as people normally take.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > People faithfully follow tradition and suggest specific ishta

devatas

> to people. However, had some spiritual greats who were liberated by

the

> grace of a deity come to us, we would've probably prescribed a

different

> deity to them. There are several examples and I will share a few here.

> >

> > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's AK Rahu is in Cp in D-9 and Sun

> (Raama/Maatangi) is alone in 12th owned by Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa).

Pt

> Sanjay Rath once argued with me that Lord Rama (Sun) is Ramakrishna's

> ishta devata and tried to justify it alluding to things from

> Ramakrishna's childhood. He also said that Tara (Jupiter) is

> Ramakrishna's ishta devata, because the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar

> temple was called " Bhava Taarini " (one who makes one cross the

material

> world).

> >

> > Such logic is unreasonable. Bottomline is that Ramakrishna revered

and

> surrendered to mother Kaali. He saw her in an idol, in a cat, in a

> flower, in the entire creation and in the light that fills the entire

> universe. The one who appears scary to several was a beautiful and

> loving mother to him and She guided his life completely and liberated

> him. Even before entering nirvikalpa samadhi (a state beyond forms,

> including the Kaali form), he asked Kaali for permission. That shows

> what Kaali meant to him! If Jyotish principles you use show Raama or

> Taaraa as his ishta devata, probably your knowledge is incomplete or

> incorrect.

> >

> > In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Sg in D-9 and Sc is empty.

> Mars and Ketu own it. One would've suggested Narasimha or Bagalamukhi

> for Mars or Matsyavatara or Dhumavati for Ketu. Her life too was

guided

> (and liberated) by mother Kaali.

> >

> > In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Sg. Jupiter is in

12th

> and Mars owns it. One would've suggested Vaamana or Taaraa for Jupiter

> or Narasimha or Bagalamukhi for Mars. Swamiji was into Gayatri mantra

> and Chandipath. He saw Kaali as a girl and talked to her for most of

the

> second half of his life and derived his energy from her. He remarked

in

> his last few days that the girl Kaali who was around him and giving

him

> energy was no longer visible. If one has saayujya (togetherness) of a

> deity while living and the deity is constantly guiding one, that

> definitely must be one's ishta devata.

> >

> > For Ramana Maharshi, 12th from AK Moon contains Ketu in navamsa and

> Venus owns and aspects 12th. However, he obtained liberation guided by

> Shiva at Arunachalam.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > If we cannot see the correct deity in the case of spiritual giants

who

> succeeded by surrendering to a specific deity, what good are our

> principles and how well can we guide people?

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > I suggest going back to Parasara and using D-20 instead of D-9.

There

> is one special point when Rahu is AK.

> >

> > Planets have argala on the 3rd, 10th and 12th houses from them.

> Parasara taught that these houses are counted *anti-zodiacally* when

we

> find the argala of *Rahu and Ketu* on various signs and planets. This

> makes sense intuitively, as Rahu and Ketu move anti-zodiacally. What

> Rahu considers as the 1st or 2nd house from him would be based on his

> anti-zodiacal movement. If 0-30 deg from the longitude of Mars is 1st

> house from Mars, 30-60 deg from the longitude of Mars is 2nd house

from

> Mars and so on, as Parasara taught in BPHS, then 360-330 deg from

Rahu's

> longitude must be the 1st house from Rahu and 330-300 deg from Rahu's

> longitude must be the 2nd house from Rahu and so on. Even in the

> evaluation of chara karakas, Parasara mentioned subtracting Rahu's

> progress in sign from 30 deg and that is consistent with this entire

> philosophy.

> >

> > Thus, I conclude that houses should be reckoned anti-zodiacally from

> Rahu, if Rahu is AK.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Now, let us revisit previous examples. I am using Jagannatha

ayanamsa.

> I will stick to Parasara's approach and build on it, rather than use

the

> list of dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. For example, Sun shows Shiva

> according to Parasara, when influencing the 12th from AK in amsa

(D-20).

> I will not take Sun to show Rama or Maatangi. Instead of trying to see

> trees without checking if we are in the right forest, let us first

focus

> on seeing the forest.

> >

> > In the case of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, AK Rahu is in Cp in D-20.

The

> 12th house counted anti-zodiacally is Aq, owned by Saturn and Rahu,

who

> are together with Ketu in Cp. As per Parasara, Rahu (and also Saturn

> sometimes) shows taamasik deities such as Durga ( " taamasIm durgaaM " ,

> said Parasara) and ugra devatas. Out of the deities listed by

Parasara,

> this is the group that Kaali would fall in.

> >

> > In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Ta in D-20. The 12th house

> is Ar, owned by Mars. Mars is with Saturn in Aq and both aspect Ar.

Rahu

> and Ketu also aspect it. The influence of Aq, Saturn and Rahu is

coming

> again, like in Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Again Kaali is fine.

> >

> > In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Pi in D-20. The 12th

> from him is Aq containing Rahu and Ketu and Saturn owns it. Again, the

> same influence as the above two charts is seen, which makes sense.

> >

> > See, the three of them have the same influences on the 12th from AK

in

> D-20!

> >

> > Just to contrast, let us take another sishya of Ramakrishna

> Paramahamsa, who was a Vaishnava. Take Swami Trigunatitananda (1865

Jan

> 30, 9:26 pm LMT, Naora, India). AK Jupiter is in Cn In D-20. The 12th

is

> Ge and is empty. Only Saturn aspects it from Vi. Mercury owns Ge. The

> influence of Mercury and Saturn according to Parasara shows a devotee

of

> Vishnu. Swami Trigunatitananda was indeed a Vaishnava.

> >

> > In the case of Srila Prabhupada, AK Rahu is in Sg. The 12th from him

> reckoned anti-zodiacally is Cp. Its lord Saturn is in Gemini owned

> Mercury and aspected by Mercury. Saturn and Mercury show Vaishnavas.

He

> realized god through his surrender to Krishna, a form of Vishnu.

> >

> > In the case of Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swami (in the parampara of

> Ramanujacharya), AK Moon is in Cn in D-20. The 12th house Ge is owned

by

> Mercury and Saturn occupies it. He has realized whatever he has

realized

> so far, through devotion to Vishnu.

> >

> > In the case of Ramana Maharshi, AK Moon is in Aq in D-20. The 12th

> from him is Cp. It is empty. Jupiter with nodes in a friendly sign

> aspects it. Parasara emphasized connection with Ketu in his formulas

for

> 12th from AK. So, we will take Jupiter's aspect on Cp to be more

> important than Saturn's ownership. Jupiter shows Shiva. Ramana

Maharshi

> was devoted to Shiva at Arunachalam and realized Self.

> >

> > In the case of Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, AK Saturn is in Cp in

> D-20. The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter. He too was devoted to

Shiva

> and realized Self.

> >

> > Take Prof. K.S. Krishnamoorthy (1908 November 1, 12:11 pm IST,

> Thiruvaiyaru), the inventer of KP. His AK Rahu is in Sc in D-20. The

> 12th from it reckoned anti-zodiacally is Sg. Its lord Jupiter is in Sc

> with 4 other planets. The strongest influence there is that of Ketu.

> Moreover, Sg is Ketu's exaltation sign. He was devoted to Ganapathi.

> >

> > Take a person with birthdata 1968 March 19 evening, India. AK Saturn

> is in Vi in D-20. The 12th lord from him is in a Martian sign. Mars in

> moolatrikona is aspecting 12th and 12th lord. His dominating influence

> suggests Kartikeya. He indeed practiced a Subrahmanya mantra and had

> several mystical experiences and making good progress towards

> realization.

> >

> > In the case of Swami Ramakrishnananda (disciple of Ramakrishna

> Paramahamsa), steadfast devotion to spiritual master was the

liberating

> factor. He constantly served Ramakrishna when he was here and

worshipped

> his relics everyday without fail after he left. Once he requested

> Ramakrishna for some spiritual experiences, seeing the experiences and

> ecstasy of other disciples. When Ramakrishna said, " I can do that. But

> you will not be able to serve me after that " , he withdrew his request

> and said he was then not interested in any experiences! He became

> liberated through complete surrender, perfect devotion and tireless

> service to his guru. He was born on 1863 July 13 at 4:56 am LMT at

> Ichchapur, India. His AK Sun is in Aq in D-20. There are 3 planets in

> Cp, but only Jupiter is in the 12th house from Sun, based on Sun's

> divisional longitude in D-20.

> >

> > In the case of Paramahamsa Yogananda (of kriya yoga and

> " Self-Realization Fellowship " and author of " Autobiography of a

Yogi " ),

> AK Venus is in Ar in D-20. The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter, who

> joins nodes. Jupiter can show Shiva, but he can also show surrender to

a

> great guru, like in the above example. Paramahamsa Yogananda may have

> worshipped several deities, but his surrender to his guru Yukteshwar

> Maharaj (whom he met at 17) and guru parampara (from Mahavatar Babaji)

> is what liberated him.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > You can see that I am sticking to the basic classification instead

of

> using dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. If the 12th from AK in navamsa

has

> Jupiter, some suggest Vaamana and some suggest Taaraa, while Pararsara

> said Shiva. It is important to see the forest first and then try to

see

> the trees. Clearly, Parasara's indications in BPHS show that the 12th

> from AK in amsa (D-20) is meant to see the forest (Shiva or Vishnu or

> Gouri or Kartikeya etc). Seeing the specific form of Vishnu or Shiva

or

> Gouri etc must be from other modifying factors. I will not go into

that.

> But, I want to emphasize that going into trees without making sure you

> are in the right forest is not so wise!

> >

> > There seem to be corruptions in our current knowledge. Going back to

> Parasara faithfully, thinking logically and simplifying things will be

> helpful in getting more consistent results, in many areas. Unless the

> principles one uses are verified based on reliable data (e.g. charts

of

> people who indeed made great spiritual progress by worshipping a

> specific deity), they just remain theoretical and their utility

> questionable.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

September 18, 2009

Dear Shanmukha Ji Thanks for ur mail can u post the article on Krishnamishra Navamsa here in grp ,also pls giv us clues on How to see Krishna Mishra navamsa i request other memebrs if they hav said article then pls post in Grp rgrds sunil nair , "teli_sha2002" <teli_sha2002 wrote:>> Om Namah Sivaya Dear Sri Narasimha, This is reference to your recent> post on Sohamsa List about devotion from Vimsamsa. The logic you used> seems to be correct. My appreciations to you, yet kindly go through the> following points. Before going to the discussion on charts, let me> state that reckoning houses and Argala for Rahu and Ketu was clearly> explained by Krishna Mishra. I dont know whether it is explained in> BPHS, if it was how this was missed by scholars ? There are some> Jaimini commentaries which take "Tatviparitam Rahu Ketvoh" for the> Argala. Please take the below combinations referred by me worth of> their salt. I will not be availble for the discussions on them. In the> most of the charts you discussed in the post, the Krishna Mishra Navamsa> works wonderful. To the best of my ability, I explained the Jaimini> concepts using Krishna Mishra Navamsa in my my article "Jaimini Navamsa"> published in Saptarishia Astrology magazine and of course with most of> the same natives you explained. Below, I explain the Jaimini pointers> with Krishna Mishra Navamsa. I am writing this mail spontaneously and> any errors may kindly be forgiven. 1. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,> explained in the article as how Durga becomes Ishta Devata. 2. Sarada> Mata - No planet occupies the 12th from AK in Jaimini Navamsa, yet the> aspect of Rahu from 9th house of Karakamsa, on 12th lord Mars explains> the influence on Durga. Also look at the conjunction of Rahu with Yogada> Saturn which contributed to a large extent. 3. Swami Vivekananda - It> was a very clear principle from Jaimini thought that how Influence of> Jupiter on 12th makes a person "Bramhatma Vadi" and a Vedanti. Look at> the two best benefic planet Jupiter and Venus in 12th from AK. Though> there is aspect of Rahu on the combination, which doesn't make much> difference. Swami Vivekananda is considered great philosopher and> excelled in Vedanta which is a clear attributes of Jupiter influence and> if we take D-20 as you suggested, only there is Rahu and Ketu influence> which doen't suffice. 4. In case of Swami Trigunatitananda chart, 12th> from AK Jupiter, occupied by Mercury and Mars shows the influence of> Vaishnava. Look at Mercury is strong being in friends house. There was a> clear dictum from Ancient Jaimini works that aspect of Moon sign lord /> Moon / or Jupiter leads to traditional Vishnavism. If we take D-20,> there is a clear influence of Rahu / Ketu which never attributed to> Vaishnavism except the apect of Saturn from Virgo. 5. Srila Prabhupada> - I have clearly explained in my article. Look at the Krishna Mishra> Navamsa, Saturn, Ketu and Jupiter occupied the 12th from AK Moon (As you> know, we dont consider Rahu to be AK). It clearly shows the connection> of Vaishnavism (Saturn). There is a clear dictum that Saturn in> conjunction with Jupiter makes a person a Vaishnavite and follows> Ramanuja Sampradaya. Look athe aspect of Venus from Saturn house (Madhva> mata Sampradaya) on the 12th lord Mars. Goudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya is> believed to be initiated by a Madhvacharya. The connection of Ketu in> 12th inself shows the highest spirtual experience and liberation. The> debilitation of Saturn is lessned by conjunction of Jupiter. If we> take AK as Rahu and D-20 and your logic, we get Jupiter in 12th in> debilitation, which is detrimental for spirtuality. 6. Tridandi Chinna> Jeeyar Swami, I dont have his chart and hence can't comment. 7. In> case of Ramana Maharshi, he is known not for his devotion towards Lord> Shiva. He is a Vedanti, which is clearly shown by the Ketu in 12th from> AK Moon. The aspect of Moon sign lord Mercury, Venus lessen the aspect> of Mars on Ketu. It is a clear dictum the combination of Mars, Venus,> Rahu, Saturn with a Jupiter leads a person to a Sanyasi (Virakti).> Though the combination doen't occur in this chart in full pledged> manner. Yet, look at aspect of Jupiter, Saturn and Rahu on 12th lord> Venus making him a Sanyasi. (Is it also called Avadhuta). Kindly> verify whether this much clarity is seen in D-20 as well. 8. Swami> Chandrasekhara Saraswati - Look at the aspect of Juputer, Sun and Mars> on 12th of AK Saturn. It is enough to understand his devotion towards> Lord Shiva. 9. In case of Prof Krishnamurthi, AK is Mars and 12th from> him is not occupied by anu planet. A strong influence of Sun, Rahu (from> 5th) and Ketu on debilitated Mars led him to Uchhista Ganapati Upasana.> This is the only info I have regarding Sri Krishna Murthi and can't> comment much on his Ishta Devata. 10. By entering the details given by> you I get AK as Moon and you write AK Saturn, so no comment. 11. In> case of Paramahamsa Yogananda, the AK Venus in Sg with Jupiter and Moon> and Mercury in 5th from it shows the wonderful learning in tradition.> The connection of Jup, Venus, Moon and Mercury on Karakamsa and its 5th> indicate the person a (Prabandha Karta), shows why his autobiography of> a Yogi is so revered in the world. 12th is unpccupied, having aspects> from Rahu, Saturn and Ketu and Mercury and Moon. Lord Mars is influenced> by Venus and Jupiter. So almost all the planets excepting Sun influence> the 12th house. As explained in Ramana Maharshi case, the influence of> Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, and Rahu leads a person into Renunciation. > The above combinations, I culled from the Jaimini commentaries available> with us. Here, as well, I am sticking to the basics. So, my humble> request to all is not to ignore the valuable other Jaimini resouces. If> we ignore them for the sake of our ignorance of Sanskrit language or the> complexity of the Jaimini System, we will be at loss as our earlier> generations have been. Warm regards, Shanmukha> sohamsa , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:> > Namaste,> > Reply to Michal Dziwulski:> > > Sharada Ma - Moon AK and Jupiter is in the 12th from it in D20. It is> aspected by Rahu, Mercury, and Ketu.> >> > Srila Prabhupada - Rahu AK, Jupiter in the 12th (counted in reverse?)> who is dispositer of Ketu conjoined AK.> >> > Ramakrishna - Moon and Venus are in the 12th (counted in reverse?).> > As I indicated in the example of Swami Ramakrishnananda, I am taking the> 12th *house* from AK in D-20 using the divisional longitude of AK. I am> not taking an entire sign as a house. Using that approach, one sees that> Sarada Mata and Srila Prabhupada do not have Jupiter in 12th.> Ramakrishna has Moon in 12th house from AK, but 12th lords join Ketu.> Parasara's formulas give importance to Ketu and I am preferring a factor> affecting 12th house that also has a Ketu link. I mentioned this point> in Ramana Maharshi example, where I took the aspect on empty 12th house> rather than 12th lord.> > > Another point I would like for you to consider - Parasara says trouble> > from rats and cats come from 'mesaamsha'. Amsha here could be any> > division right? As it is trouble being referred to - would amsa here> > refer to D6?> > Well, if "amsa" always means navamsa, Parasara would not define 16 amsas> and list the matters to be seen from each! Obviously, amsa can mean a> different division based on the matters under discussion. The "master> key" is given at the beginning itself.> > Having not looked at examples of this, I do not want to comment on> whether amsa means D-6 or D-30 or something else here.> > Reply to Medha Raja:> > > Does it means that you do not take into consideration at all the> opinion of> > Irangati and other jyotishas who would look into Krishna Misra Navamsa> and> > see Deity from there ?> > Pt Sanjay Rath takes regular navamsa. Sri Iranganti Rangacharya> apparently takes Krishna Misra Navamsa as you say. If one reads Parasara> *carefully* (the maharshi does not leave anything to chance or ambiguity> and arranges his teachings in such a way that an intelligent person can> figure out even seemingly left out things), it clearly suggests> vimsamsa.> > I cannot take all the contradictory opinions into account and have one> coherent method. I have to reject some opinions.> > My approach is to give priority to Parasara's teachings, especially when> I am able to convince myself based on practical testing.> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > Namaste,> >> > I mentioned a formula that occurs commonly in the charts of spiritual> greats, though it is not that common in regular charts. The long> discussion on sohamsa that followed that post ignored the actual formula> and its building blocks and focused on other things. I want to say more> on one important building block used in that formula.> >> > * * *> >> > In the chapter called "kaarakaamsa phala" in BPHS, Parasara mentioned> the deities worshipped based on the planets in the 12th from> kaarakaamsha. For example, Sun in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of> Shiva and Moon in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Gouri.> >> > The term "kaarakaamsa" means "AK's amsa". Amsa only means division.> Which amsa or division is Parasara referring to?> >> > Though people jumped to the conclusion that amsa means navaamsa by> default, there is one more important thing to consider here. At the> onset itself, Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for> which purposes. He clearly said "upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM> viMshati bhaagake", meaning "the knowledge of one's worship and> spiritual practices is possible in D-20".> >> > If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are> worshipped based on the 12th house from AK in an "amsa", can the amsa in> question be anything other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said one's> upaasanaa is seen from D-20. So the principles laid out later by> Parasara for upaasanaa *must* be referring to D-20 by "amsa" and *not*> D-9 as people normally take.> >> > * * *> >> > People faithfully follow tradition and suggest specific ishta devatas> to people. However, had some spiritual greats who were liberated by the> grace of a deity come to us, we would've probably prescribed a different> deity to them. There are several examples and I will share a few here.> >> > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's AK Rahu is in Cp in D-9 and Sun> (Raama/Maatangi) is alone in 12th owned by Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa). Pt> Sanjay Rath once argued with me that Lord Rama (Sun) is Ramakrishna's> ishta devata and tried to justify it alluding to things from> Ramakrishna's childhood. He also said that Tara (Jupiter) is> Ramakrishna's ishta devata, because the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar> temple was called "Bhava Taarini" (one who makes one cross the material> world).> >> > Such logic is unreasonable. Bottomline is that Ramakrishna revered and> surrendered to mother Kaali. He saw her in an idol, in a cat, in a> flower, in the entire creation and in the light that fills the entire> universe. The one who appears scary to several was a beautiful and> loving mother to him and She guided his life completely and liberated> him. Even before entering nirvikalpa samadhi (a state beyond forms,> including the Kaali form), he asked Kaali for permission. That shows> what Kaali meant to him! If Jyotish principles you use show Raama or> Taaraa as his ishta devata, probably your knowledge is incomplete or> incorrect.> >> > In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Sg in D-9 and Sc is empty.> Mars and Ketu own it. One would've suggested Narasimha or Bagalamukhi> for Mars or Matsyavatara or Dhumavati for Ketu. Her life too was guided> (and liberated) by mother Kaali.> >> > In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Sg. Jupiter is in 12th> and Mars owns it. One would've suggested Vaamana or Taaraa for Jupiter> or Narasimha or Bagalamukhi for Mars. Swamiji was into Gayatri mantra> and Chandipath. He saw Kaali as a girl and talked to her for most of the> second half of his life and derived his energy from her. He remarked in> his last few days that the girl Kaali who was around him and giving him> energy was no longer visible. If one has saayujya (togetherness) of a> deity while living and the deity is constantly guiding one, that> definitely must be one's ishta devata.> >> > For Ramana Maharshi, 12th from AK Moon contains Ketu in navamsa and> Venus owns and aspects 12th. However, he obtained liberation guided by> Shiva at Arunachalam.> >> > * * *> >> > If we cannot see the correct deity in the case of spiritual giants who> succeeded by surrendering to a specific deity, what good are our> principles and how well can we guide people?> >> > * * *> >> > I suggest going back to Parasara and using D-20 instead of D-9. There> is one special point when Rahu is AK.> >> > Planets have argala on the 3rd, 10th and 12th houses from them.> Parasara taught that these houses are counted *anti-zodiacally* when we> find the argala of *Rahu and Ketu* on various signs and planets. This> makes sense intuitively, as Rahu and Ketu move anti-zodiacally. What> Rahu considers as the 1st or 2nd house from him would be based on his> anti-zodiacal movement. If 0-30 deg from the longitude of Mars is 1st> house from Mars, 30-60 deg from the longitude of Mars is 2nd house from> Mars and so on, as Parasara taught in BPHS, then 360-330 deg from Rahu's> longitude must be the 1st house from Rahu and 330-300 deg from Rahu's> longitude must be the 2nd house from Rahu and so on. Even in the> evaluation of chara karakas, Parasara mentioned subtracting Rahu's> progress in sign from 30 deg and that is consistent with this entire> philosophy.> >> > Thus, I conclude that houses should be reckoned anti-zodiacally from> Rahu, if Rahu is AK.> >> > * * *> >> > Now, let us revisit previous examples. I am using Jagannatha ayanamsa.> I will stick to Parasara's approach and build on it, rather than use the> list of dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. For example, Sun shows Shiva> according to Parasara, when influencing the 12th from AK in amsa (D-20).> I will not take Sun to show Rama or Maatangi. Instead of trying to see> trees without checking if we are in the right forest, let us first focus> on seeing the forest.> >> > In the case of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, AK Rahu is in Cp in D-20. The> 12th house counted anti-zodiacally is Aq, owned by Saturn and Rahu, who> are together with Ketu in Cp. As per Parasara, Rahu (and also Saturn> sometimes) shows taamasik deities such as Durga ("taamasIm durgaaM",> said Parasara) and ugra devatas. Out of the deities listed by Parasara,> this is the group that Kaali would fall in.> >> > In the case of Sarada Mata, AK Moon is in Ta in D-20. The 12th house> is Ar, owned by Mars. Mars is with Saturn in Aq and both aspect Ar. Rahu> and Ketu also aspect it. The influence of Aq, Saturn and Rahu is coming> again, like in Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Again Kaali is fine.> >> > In the case of Swami Vivekananda, AK Sun is in Pi in D-20. The 12th> from him is Aq containing Rahu and Ketu and Saturn owns it. Again, the> same influence as the above two charts is seen, which makes sense.> >> > See, the three of them have the same influences on the 12th from AK in> D-20!> >> > Just to contrast, let us take another sishya of Ramakrishna> Paramahamsa, who was a Vaishnava. Take Swami Trigunatitananda (1865 Jan> 30, 9:26 pm LMT, Naora, India). AK Jupiter is in Cn In D-20. The 12th is> Ge and is empty. Only Saturn aspects it from Vi. Mercury owns Ge. The> influence of Mercury and Saturn according to Parasara shows a devotee of> Vishnu. Swami Trigunatitananda was indeed a Vaishnava.> >> > In the case of Srila Prabhupada, AK Rahu is in Sg. The 12th from him> reckoned anti-zodiacally is Cp. Its lord Saturn is in Gemini owned> Mercury and aspected by Mercury. Saturn and Mercury show Vaishnavas. He> realized god through his surrender to Krishna, a form of Vishnu.> >> > In the case of Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swami (in the parampara of> Ramanujacharya), AK Moon is in Cn in D-20. The 12th house Ge is owned by> Mercury and Saturn occupies it. He has realized whatever he has realized> so far, through devotion to Vishnu.> >> > In the case of Ramana Maharshi, AK Moon is in Aq in D-20. The 12th> from him is Cp. It is empty. Jupiter with nodes in a friendly sign> aspects it. Parasara emphasized connection with Ketu in his formulas for> 12th from AK. So, we will take Jupiter's aspect on Cp to be more> important than Saturn's ownership. Jupiter shows Shiva. Ramana Maharshi> was devoted to Shiva at Arunachalam and realized Self.> >> > In the case of Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, AK Saturn is in Cp in> D-20. The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter. He too was devoted to Shiva> and realized Self.> >> > Take Prof. K.S. Krishnamoorthy (1908 November 1, 12:11 pm IST,> Thiruvaiyaru), the inventer of KP. His AK Rahu is in Sc in D-20. The> 12th from it reckoned anti-zodiacally is Sg. Its lord Jupiter is in Sc> with 4 other planets. The strongest influence there is that of Ketu.> Moreover, Sg is Ketu's exaltation sign. He was devoted to Ganapathi.> >> > Take a person with birthdata 1968 March 19 evening, India. AK Saturn> is in Vi in D-20. The 12th lord from him is in a Martian sign. Mars in> moolatrikona is aspecting 12th and 12th lord. His dominating influence> suggests Kartikeya. He indeed practiced a Subrahmanya mantra and had> several mystical experiences and making good progress towards> realization.> >> > In the case of Swami Ramakrishnananda (disciple of Ramakrishna> Paramahamsa), steadfast devotion to spiritual master was the liberating> factor. He constantly served Ramakrishna when he was here and worshipped> his relics everyday without fail after he left. Once he requested> Ramakrishna for some spiritual experiences, seeing the experiences and> ecstasy of other disciples. When Ramakrishna said, "I can do that. But> you will not be able to serve me after that", he withdrew his request> and said he was then not interested in any experiences! He became> liberated through complete surrender, perfect devotion and tireless> service to his guru. He was born on 1863 July 13 at 4:56 am LMT at> Ichchapur, India. His AK Sun is in Aq in D-20. There are 3 planets in> Cp, but only Jupiter is in the 12th house from Sun, based on Sun's> divisional longitude in D-20.> >> > In the case of Paramahamsa Yogananda (of kriya yoga and> "Self-Realization Fellowship" and author of "Autobiography of a Yogi"),> AK Venus is in Ar in D-20. The 12th from him is owned by Jupiter, who> joins nodes. Jupiter can show Shiva, but he can also show surrender to a> great guru, like in the above example. Paramahamsa Yogananda may have> worshipped several deities, but his surrender to his guru Yukteshwar> Maharaj (whom he met at 17) and guru parampara (from Mahavatar Babaji)> is what liberated him.> >> > * * *> >> > You can see that I am sticking to the basic classification instead of> using dasavataras or dasa mahavidyas. If the 12th from AK in navamsa has> Jupiter, some suggest Vaamana and some suggest Taaraa, while Pararsara> said Shiva. It is important to see the forest first and then try to see> the trees. Clearly, Parasara's indications in BPHS show that the 12th> from AK in amsa (D-20) is meant to see the forest (Shiva or Vishnu or> Gouri or Kartikeya etc). Seeing the specific form of Vishnu or Shiva or> Gouri etc must be from other modifying factors. I will not go into that.> But, I want to emphasize that going into trees without making sure you> are in the right forest is not so wise!> >> > There seem to be corruptions in our current knowledge. Going back to> Parasara faithfully, thinking logically and simplifying things will be> helpful in getting more consistent results, in many areas. Unless the> principles one uses are verified based on reliable data (e.g. charts of> people who indeed made great spiritual progress by worshipping a> specific deity), they just remain theoretical and their utility> questionable.> >> > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > --- End forwarded message --->

September 18, 2009

Dear Shanmukha ji,

Thanks for the informative post, which helps us to understand the Jaimini

system better.

Note: By the way, I have heard somewhere about some Vikramaditya- Krishna

Mishra connection. Is it possible that the Vikramaditya under consideration is

10th century (Chalukya) Vikramaditya IV who ruled over both Karnataka and Andhra

Pradesh and was a great supporter of Sanskrit literature? What is your opinion?

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

, " teli_sha2002 "

<teli_sha2002 wrote:

>

> Om Namah Sivaya Dear Sri Narasimha, This is reference to your recent

> post on Sohamsa List about devotion from Vimsamsa. The logic you used

> seems to be correct. My appreciations to you, yet kindly go through the

> following points. Before going to the discussion on charts, let me

> state that reckoning houses and Argala for Rahu and Ketu was clearly

> explained by Krishna Mishra. I dont know whether it is explained in

> BPHS, if it was how this was missed by scholars ? There are some

> Jaimini commentaries which take " Tatviparitam Rahu Ketvoh " for the

> Argala. Please take the below combinations referred by me worth of

> their salt. I will not be availble for the discussions on them. In the

> most of the charts you discussed in the post, the Krishna Mishra Navamsa

> works wonderful. To the best of my ability, I explained the Jaimini

> concepts using Krishna Mishra Navamsa in my my article " Jaimini Navamsa "

> published in Saptarishia Astrology magazine and of course with most of

> the same natives you explained. Below, I explain the Jaimini pointers

> with Krishna Mishra Navamsa. I am writing this mail spontaneously and

> any errors may kindly be forgiven. 1. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,

> explained in the article as how Durga becomes Ishta Devata. 2. Sarada

> Mata - No planet occupies the 12th from AK in Jaimini Navamsa, yet the

> aspect of Rahu from 9th house of Karakamsa, on 12th lord Mars explains

> the influence on Durga. Also look at the conjunction of Rahu with Yogada

> Saturn which contributed to a large extent. 3. Swami Vivekananda - It

> was a very clear principle from Jaimini thought that how Influence of

> Jupiter on 12th makes a person " Bramhatma Vadi " and a Vedanti. Look at

> the two best benefic planet Jupiter and Venus in 12th from AK. Though

> there is aspect of Rahu on the combination, which doesn't make much

> difference. Swami Vivekananda is considered great philosopher and

> excelled in Vedanta which is a clear attributes of Jupiter influence and

> if we take D-20 as you suggested, only there is Rahu and Ketu influence

> which doen't suffice. 4. In case of Swami Trigunatitananda chart, 12th

> from AK Jupiter, occupied by Mercury and Mars shows the influence of

> Vaishnava. Look at Mercury is strong being in friends house. There was a

> clear dictum from Ancient Jaimini works that aspect of Moon sign lord /

> Moon / or Jupiter leads to traditional Vishnavism. If we take D-20,

> there is a clear influence of Rahu / Ketu which never attributed to

> Vaishnavism except the apect of Saturn from Virgo. 5. Srila Prabhupada

> - I have clearly explained in my article. Look at the Krishna Mishra

> Navamsa, Saturn, Ketu and Jupiter occupied the 12th from AK Moon (As you

> know, we dont consider Rahu to be AK). It clearly shows the connection

> of Vaishnavism (Saturn). There is a clear dictum that Saturn in

> conjunction with Jupiter makes a person a Vaishnavite and follows

> Ramanuja Sampradaya. Look athe aspect of Venus from Saturn house (Madhva

> mata Sampradaya) on the 12th lord Mars. Goudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya is

> believed to be initiated by a Madhvacharya. The connection of Ketu in

> 12th inself shows the highest spirtual experience and liberation. The

> debilitation of Saturn is lessned by conjunction of Jupiter. If we

> take AK as Rahu and D-20 and your logic, we get Jupiter in 12th in

> debilitation, which is detrimental for spirtuality. 6. Tridandi Chinna

> Jeeyar Swami, I dont have his chart and hence can't comment. 7. In

> case of Ramana Maharshi, he is known not for his devotion towards Lord

> Shiva. He is a Vedanti, which is clearly shown by the Ketu in 12th from