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Dear Rao,

 

Namaste.

 

Mind if I blurt in?

 

-

" Rao Nemani " <raonemani

<jhora >

Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:42 PM

Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

 

 

> Dear Rao Ji,

>

> I have seen the following options available in JH 5 ,

> for " Sunrise Defintion Selection " :-

>

> 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> horizon

> 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> horizon

> 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> horizon

>

> Default is options-3:

>

> Can you please tell me on what situation we should use

> these options, and I was told by a friend of mine to

> use Option-1 for an accurate PranaPada Calculation.

> Please confirm this?.

>

> I am currently using Option-1, which impacts the

> calculation of the longitudes of special lagnas like

> HL, GL and Upagrahas like Kaal, Mrityu, Gulika snd

> Mandi.

 

Definitely all this gets ifluenced by the sunrise point. However there's

different sampradayas on this, so you should experiment to find the best for

your taste. One method to do this is as follows: read the Pranapada

definitons from BPHS and Jaimini Sutram, and take several cases with exactly

known birth time. Try out potions 1, 2, and 3 and see if PPL changes signs.

Read which reading is more suitable to the native. After a few experiments

you will see which one you prefer. I use the default potion, as I believe

this was used by the sages, as this is observable with the help of sloar

observatories like they had in Ujjain, Jaipur or Delhi.

 

> I am interested to get a very accurate PranaPada

> Lagna, so me using Option-1 is correct?.

>

> Also I am using " Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days) "

> as my customized option, please tell me where do I see

> the difference of results if I use one of the

> following:-

>

> Also What definition of the year you are using

> a) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg per year)

> b) Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)

> c) Savana year ( 360 days)

> d) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg)

> e) year with 360 Tithis.

 

This makes difference with Dasas. Some astrologers use Savana years or tithi

years for Nakshatra dasas, althoguh Sanjay emphatically uses normal solar

year. For rasi dasas 360 deg year fits better, although it does not differ

much from normal sloar year.

 

Yours,

 

Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer

gauranga

Jyotish Remedies:

WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET

Phone:+36-309-140-839

 

 

> Regards

> Rao

>

>

>

>

> SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

> http://sbc.

>

>

>

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Dear Gauranga Ji,

 

Namaste,

 

Thank you very much for the reply and it really did helped to some

extent, but still I am struggling to understand the following:

 

I have changed to JH default values for the Sunrise Definitions ( for

all default values option), I have found the following value was set

as default:

 

2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon

 

May I ask you one more time, is this option you have set for your

calculations, because this is Option-2 not Option-3 as I have

mentioned earlier.

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Regards

Rao

==================

 

1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> horizon

> 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> horizon

> 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> horizon

>

> Default is options-3:

 

 

jhora , Gauranga Das <gauranga@b...> wrote:

> Dear Rao,

>

> Namaste.

>

> Mind if I blurt in?

>

> -

> " Rao Nemani " <raonemani>

> <jhora >

> Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:42 PM

> Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

>

>

> > Dear Rao Ji,

> >

> > I have seen the following options available in JH 5 ,

> > for " Sunrise Defintion Selection " :-

> >

> > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> > horizon

> > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> > horizon

> > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> > horizon

> >

> > Default is options-3:

> >

> > Can you please tell me on what situation we should use

> > these options, and I was told by a friend of mine to

> > use Option-1 for an accurate PranaPada Calculation.

> > Please confirm this?.

> >

> > I am currently using Option-1, which impacts the

> > calculation of the longitudes of special lagnas like

> > HL, GL and Upagrahas like Kaal, Mrityu, Gulika snd

> > Mandi.

>

> Definitely all this gets ifluenced by the sunrise point. However

there's

> different sampradayas on this, so you should experiment to find the

best for

> your taste. One method to do this is as follows: read the Pranapada

> definitons from BPHS and Jaimini Sutram, and take several cases

with exactly

> known birth time. Try out potions 1, 2, and 3 and see if PPL

changes signs.

> Read which reading is more suitable to the native. After a few

experiments

> you will see which one you prefer. I use the default potion, as I

believe

> this was used by the sages, as this is observable with the help of

sloar

> observatories like they had in Ujjain, Jaipur or Delhi.

>

> > I am interested to get a very accurate PranaPada

> > Lagna, so me using Option-1 is correct?.

> >

> > Also I am using " Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days) "

> > as my customized option, please tell me where do I see

> > the difference of results if I use one of the

> > following:-

> >

> > Also What definition of the year you are using

> > a) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg per year)

> > b) Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)

> > c) Savana year ( 360 days)

> > d) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg)

> > e) year with 360 Tithis.

>

> This makes difference with Dasas. Some astrologers use Savana years

or tithi

> years for Nakshatra dasas, althoguh Sanjay emphatically uses normal

solar

> year. For rasi dasas 360 deg year fits better, although it does not

differ

> much from normal sloar year.

>

> Yours,

>

> Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer

> gauranga@b...

> Jyotish Remedies:

> WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET

> Phone:+36-309-140-839

>

>

> > Regards

> > Rao

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

> > http://sbc.

> >

> >

> >

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Namaste all,

 

For sunrise, Sanjay taught option 3. So I made that the default.

 

However, I personally don't like using an ill-defined phenomenon to define something. Definition 3 depends on the refraction angle and the atmospheric conditions. What if there are heavy clouds and Sun is not visible? One may say "we'll take the time when Sun would've been visible had there been no clouds". But, had there been no clouds, perhaps the atmospheric pressure would've been slightly different and the refraction angle slightly different. How can you guess at all?

 

To me, apparent visibility is an ill-definition. I still give it as the default because Sanjay teaches it.

 

BTW, you should note that JHora takes the average atmospheric conditions into account for calculating the apparent sunrise. There is no way anyone can predict it accurately, unless average atmospheric conditions are assumed.

 

As per dasa years, I leave it to you to experiment. But never use normal solar years (365.2425 days). Always solar longitude based years (360 deg years) are more accurate.

 

In normal solar years, a year is taken to be 365.2425 civil days. In 360 degree years, a year is taken as a period when Sun changes by 360 deg. To divide it further, Sun's degrees are used as a measure of time!

 

Best regards,Narasimha

 

-

Rao Nemani

jhora

Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:35 AM

Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

 

Dear Gauranga Ji,Namaste,Thank you very much for the reply and it really did helped to some extent, but still I am struggling to understand the following:I have changed to JH default values for the Sunrise Definitions ( for all default values option), I have found the following value was set as default:2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizonMay I ask you one more time, is this option you have set for your calculations, because this is Option-2 not Option-3 as I have mentioned earlier.Thanks for your help in advance.RegardsRao==================1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern> horizon> 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern> horizon> 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern> horizon>> Default is options-3:jhora , Gauranga Das <gauranga@b...> wrote:> Dear Rao,> > Namaste.> > Mind if I blurt in?> > -> "Rao Nemani" <raonemani>> <jhora >> Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:42 PM> Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?> > > > Dear Rao Ji,> >> > I have seen the following options available in JH 5 ,> > for "Sunrise Defintion Selection":-> >> > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern> > horizon> > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern> > horizon> > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern> > horizon> >> > Default is options-3:> >> > Can you please tell me on what situation we should use> > these options, and I was told by a friend of mine to> > use Option-1 for an accurate PranaPada Calculation.> > Please confirm this?.> >> > I am currently using Option-1, which impacts the> > calculation of the longitudes of special lagnas like> > HL, GL and Upagrahas like Kaal, Mrityu, Gulika snd> > Mandi.> > Definitely all this gets ifluenced by the sunrise point. However there's> different sampradayas on this, so you should experiment to find the best for> your taste. One method to do this is as follows: read the Pranapada> definitons from BPHS and Jaimini Sutram, and take several cases with exactly> known birth time. Try out potions 1, 2, and 3 and see if PPL changes signs.> Read which reading is more suitable to the native. After a few experiments> you will see which one you prefer. I use the default potion, as I believe> this was used by the sages, as this is observable with the help of sloar> observatories like they had in Ujjain, Jaipur or Delhi.> > > I am interested to get a very accurate PranaPada> > Lagna, so me using Option-1 is correct?.> >> > Also I am using "Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)"> > as my customized option, please tell me where do I see> > the difference of results if I use one of the> > following:-> >> > Also What definition of the year you are using> > a) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg per year)> > b) Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)> > c) Savana year ( 360 days)> > d) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg)> > e) year with 360 Tithis.> > This makes difference with Dasas. Some astrologers use Savana years or tithi> years for Nakshatra dasas, althoguh Sanjay emphatically uses normal solar> year. For rasi dasas 360 deg year fits better, although it does not differ> much from normal sloar year.> > Yours,> > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer> gauranga@b...> Jyotish Remedies:> WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET> Phone:+36-309-140-839> > > > Regards> > Rao

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Dear Narasimha Rao Ji,

 

Namaste,

 

Thank you for answering my question promptly and I really appreciate

and my seach for knowledge is now continued, otherwise, I am stuck if

I do not get the answers quickly.

 

Based on your suggesion and Sanjay Ji's teaching, I have decided to

use

Option-3 in the drop down list, which is:

* The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern horizon

 

But, when I have asked JH Software to set " Restore Default

Calculations Options " ,

I get the the following setting as default:

* The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon

 

Please help me, am I doing some thing incorrect here. When you said,

third one

hould be the default, but I am getting second option as dafualt.

 

Thanks for your help in advance and help me to go forward quickly.

 

Regards

Rao

 

jhora , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Namaste all,

>

> For sunrise, Sanjay taught option 3. So I made that the default.

>

> However, I personally don't like using an ill-defined phenomenon to

define something. Definition 3 depends on the refraction angle and

the atmospheric conditions. What if there are heavy clouds and Sun is

not visible? One may say "

we'll take the time when Sun would've been visible had there been no

clouds " . But, had there been no clouds, perhaps the atmospheric

pressure would've been slightly different and the refraction angle

slightly different. How can you guess at all?

>

> To me, apparent visibility is an ill-definition. I still give it as

the default because Sanjay teaches it.

>

> BTW, you should note that JHora takes the average atmospheric

conditions into account for calculating the apparent sunrise. There

is no way anyone can predict it accurately, unless average

atmospheric conditions are assumed.

>

> As per dasa years, I leave it to you to experiment. But never use

normal solar years (365.2425 days). Always solar longitude based

years (360 deg years) are more accurate.

>

> In normal solar years, a year is taken to be 365.2425 civil days.

In 360 degree years, a year is taken as a period when Sun changes by

360 deg. To divide it further, Sun's degrees are used as a measure of

time!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Rao Nemani

> jhora

> Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:35 AM

> Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

>

>

> Dear Gauranga Ji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> Thank you very much for the reply and it really did helped to

some

> extent, but still I am struggling to understand the following:

>

> I have changed to JH default values for the Sunrise Definitions (

for

> all default values option), I have found the following value was

set

> as default:

>

> 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon

>

> May I ask you one more time, is this option you have set for your

> calculations, because this is Option-2 not Option-3 as I have

> mentioned earlier.

>

> Thanks for your help in advance.

>

> Regards

> Rao

> ==================

>

> 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> > horizon

> > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> > horizon

> > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> > horizon

> >

> > Default is options-3:

>

>

> jhora , Gauranga Das <gauranga@b...> wrote:

> > Dear Rao,

> >

> > Namaste.

> >

> > Mind if I blurt in?

> >

> > -

> > " Rao Nemani " <raonemani>

> > <jhora >

> > Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:42 PM

> > Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

> >

> >

> > > Dear Rao Ji,

> > >

> > > I have seen the following options available in JH 5 ,

> > > for " Sunrise Defintion Selection " :-

> > >

> > > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> > > horizon

> > > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> > > horizon

> > > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> > > horizon

> > >

> > > Default is options-3:

> > >

> > > Can you please tell me on what situation we should use

> > > these options, and I was told by a friend of mine to

> > > use Option-1 for an accurate PranaPada Calculation.

> > > Please confirm this?.

> > >

> > > I am currently using Option-1, which impacts the

> > > calculation of the longitudes of special lagnas like

> > > HL, GL and Upagrahas like Kaal, Mrityu, Gulika snd

> > > Mandi.

> >

> > Definitely all this gets ifluenced by the sunrise point.

However

> there's

> > different sampradayas on this, so you should experiment to find

the

> best for

> > your taste. One method to do this is as follows: read the

Pranapada

> > definitons from BPHS and Jaimini Sutram, and take several cases

> with exactly

> > known birth time. Try out potions 1, 2, and 3 and see if PPL

> changes signs.

> > Read which reading is more suitable to the native. After a few

> experiments

> > you will see which one you prefer. I use the default potion, as

I

> believe

> > this was used by the sages, as this is observable with the help

of

> sloar

> > observatories like they had in Ujjain, Jaipur or Delhi.

> >

> > > I am interested to get a very accurate PranaPada

> > > Lagna, so me using Option-1 is correct?.

> > >

> > > Also I am using " Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days) "

> > > as my customized option, please tell me where do I see

> > > the difference of results if I use one of the

> > > following:-

> > >

> > > Also What definition of the year you are using

> > > a) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg per year)

> > > b) Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)

> > > c) Savana year ( 360 days)

> > > d) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg)

> > > e) year with 360 Tithis.

> >

> > This makes difference with Dasas. Some astrologers use Savana

years

> or tithi

> > years for Nakshatra dasas, althoguh Sanjay emphatically uses

normal

> solar

> > year. For rasi dasas 360 deg year fits better, although it does

not

> differ

> > much from normal sloar year.

> >

> > Yours,

> >

> > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer

> > gauranga@b...

> > Jyotish Remedies:

> > WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET

> > Phone:+36-309-140-839

> >

> >

> > > Regards

> > > Rao

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Dear Rao garu,

 

Sorry, I made a mistake. The default used to be 3. Just before the software was released, I changed it to 2 in the general release. *I* personally use 2.

 

Only in the special build I made for Sanjay ji, I made 3 the default. Sanjay ji prefers 3.

 

But because 3 is ill-defined, I did not like it. I did not think pranapada lagna, GL etc would depend on an ill-defined quantity. My conscience simply did not allow me to make it the default.

 

If you prefer 3, you can always change the preference.

 

Best regards,Narasimha

 

-

Rao Nemani

jhora

Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:57 AM

Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

 

Dear Narasimha Rao Ji,Namaste,Thank you for answering my question promptly and I really appreciate and my seach for knowledge is now continued, otherwise, I am stuck if I do not get the answers quickly.Based on your suggesion and Sanjay Ji's teaching, I have decided to use Option-3 in the drop down list, which is: * The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern horizonBut, when I have asked JH Software to set "Restore Default Calculations Options", I get the the following setting as default: * The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizonPlease help me, am I doing some thing incorrect here. When you said, third one hould be the default, but I am getting second option as dafualt.Thanks for your help in advance and help me to go forward quickly.RegardsRaojhora , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote:> Namaste all,> > For sunrise, Sanjay taught option 3. So I made that the default.> > However, I personally don't like using an ill-defined phenomenon to define something. Definition 3 depends on the refraction angle and the atmospheric conditions. What if there are heavy clouds and Sun is not visible? One may say "we'll take the time when Sun would've been visible had there been no clouds". But, had there been no clouds, perhaps the atmospheric pressure would've been slightly different and the refraction angle slightly different. How can you guess at all?> > To me, apparent visibility is an ill-definition. I still give it as the default because Sanjay teaches it.> > BTW, you should note that JHora takes the average atmospheric conditions into account for calculating the apparent sunrise. There is no way anyone can predict it accurately, unless average atmospheric conditions are assumed.> > As per dasa years, I leave it to you to experiment. But never use normal solar years (365.2425 days). Always solar longitude based years (360 deg years) are more accurate.> > In normal solar years, a year is taken to be 365.2425 civil days. In 360 degree years, a year is taken as a period when Sun changes by 360 deg. To divide it further, Sun's degrees are used as a measure of time!> > Best regards,> Narasimha> - > Rao Nemani > jhora > Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:35 AM> Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?> > > Dear Gauranga Ji,> > Namaste,> > Thank you very much for the reply and it really did helped to some > extent, but still I am struggling to understand the following:> > I have changed to JH default values for the Sunrise Definitions ( for > all default values option), I have found the following value was set > as default:> > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon> > May I ask you one more time, is this option you have set for your > calculations, because this is Option-2 not Option-3 as I have > mentioned earlier.> > Thanks for your help in advance.> > Regards> Rao> ==================> > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern> > horizon> > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern> > horizon> > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern> > horizon> >> > Default is options-3:> > > jhora , Gauranga Das <gauranga@b...> wrote:> > Dear Rao,> > > > Namaste.> > > > Mind if I blurt in?> > > > -> > "Rao Nemani" <raonemani>> > <jhora >> > Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:42 PM> > Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?> > > > > > > Dear Rao Ji,> > >> > > I have seen the following options available in JH 5 ,> > > for "Sunrise Defintion Selection":-> > >> > > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern> > > horizon> > > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern> > > horizon> > > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern> > > horizon> > >> > > Default is options-3:> > >> > > Can you please tell me on what situation we should use> > > these options, and I was told by a friend of mine to> > > use Option-1 for an accurate PranaPada Calculation.> > > Please confirm this?.> > >> > > I am currently using Option-1, which impacts the> > > calculation of the longitudes of special lagnas like> > > HL, GL and Upagrahas like Kaal, Mrityu, Gulika snd> > > Mandi.> > > > Definitely all this gets ifluenced by the sunrise point. However > there's> > different sampradayas on this, so you should experiment to find the > best for> > your taste. One method to do this is as follows: read the Pranapada> > definitons from BPHS and Jaimini Sutram, and take several cases > with exactly> > known birth time. Try out potions 1, 2, and 3 and see if PPL > changes signs.> > Read which reading is more suitable to the native. After a few > experiments> > you will see which one you prefer. I use the default potion, as I > believe> > this was used by the sages, as this is observable with the help of > sloar> > observatories like they had in Ujjain, Jaipur or Delhi.> > > > > I am interested to get a very accurate PranaPada> > > Lagna, so me using Option-1 is correct?.> > >> > > Also I am using "Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)"> > > as my customized option, please tell me where do I see> > > the difference of results if I use one of the> > > following:-> > >> > > Also What definition of the year you are using> > > a) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg per year)> > > b) Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)> > > c) Savana year ( 360 days)> > > d) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg)> > > e) year with 360 Tithis.> > > > This makes difference with Dasas. Some astrologers use Savana years > or tithi> > years for Nakshatra dasas, althoguh Sanjay emphatically uses normal > solar> > year. For rasi dasas 360 deg year fits better, although it does not > differ> > much from normal sloar year.> > > > Yours,> > > > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer> > gauranga@b...> > Jyotish Remedies:> > WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET> > Phone:+36-309-140-839> > > > > > > Regards> > > Rao

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Dear Narasimha Rao Ji,

 

Thank you for your qick reply again.

 

So my understanding is Option-2, as default with the following value:

* The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon

 

Is the above value you have made for Sanjay Ji as Option-3 as a

default for a special Build.

 

Thanks for this final confirmation, then I am all set to go forward.

 

Regards

Rao

 

 

jhora , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Dear Rao garu,

>

> Sorry, I made a mistake. The default used to be 3. Just before the

software was released, I changed it to 2 in the general release. *I*

personally use 2.

>

> Only in the special build I made for Sanjay ji, I made 3 the

default. Sanjay ji prefers 3.

>

> But because 3 is ill-defined, I did not like it. I did not think

pranapada lagna, GL etc would depend on an ill-defined quantity. My

conscience simply did not allow me to make it the default.

>

> If you prefer 3, you can always change the preference.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Rao Nemani

> jhora

> Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:57 AM

> Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

>

>

> Dear Narasimha Rao Ji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> Thank you for answering my question promptly and I really

appreciate

> and my seach for knowledge is now continued, otherwise, I am

stuck if

> I do not get the answers quickly.

>

> Based on your suggesion and Sanjay Ji's teaching, I have decided

to

> use

> Option-3 in the drop down list, which is:

> * The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern horizon

>

> But, when I have asked JH Software to set " Restore Default

> Calculations Options " ,

> I get the the following setting as default:

> * The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon

>

> Please help me, am I doing some thing incorrect here. When you

said,

> third one

> hould be the default, but I am getting second option as dafualt.

>

> Thanks for your help in advance and help me to go forward quickly.

>

> Regards

> Rao

>

> jhora , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@c...>

wrote:

> > Namaste all,

> >

> > For sunrise, Sanjay taught option 3. So I made that the default.

> >

> > However, I personally don't like using an ill-defined

phenomenon to

> define something. Definition 3 depends on the refraction angle

and

> the atmospheric conditions. What if there are heavy clouds and

Sun is

> not visible? One may say "

> we'll take the time when Sun would've been visible had there been

no

> clouds " . But, had there been no clouds, perhaps the atmospheric

> pressure would've been slightly different and the refraction

angle

> slightly different. How can you guess at all?

> >

> > To me, apparent visibility is an ill-definition. I still give

it as

> the default because Sanjay teaches it.

> >

> > BTW, you should note that JHora takes the average atmospheric

> conditions into account for calculating the apparent sunrise.

There

> is no way anyone can predict it accurately, unless average

> atmospheric conditions are assumed.

> >

> > As per dasa years, I leave it to you to experiment. But never

use

> normal solar years (365.2425 days). Always solar longitude based

> years (360 deg years) are more accurate.

> >

> > In normal solar years, a year is taken to be 365.2425 civil

days.

> In 360 degree years, a year is taken as a period when Sun changes

by

> 360 deg. To divide it further, Sun's degrees are used as a

measure of

> time!

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -

> > Rao Nemani

> > jhora

> > Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:35 AM

> > Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

> >

> >

> > Dear Gauranga Ji,

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Thank you very much for the reply and it really did helped to

> some

> > extent, but still I am struggling to understand the following:

> >

> > I have changed to JH default values for the Sunrise

Definitions (

> for

> > all default values option), I have found the following value

was

> set

> > as default:

> >

> > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern horizon

> >

> > May I ask you one more time, is this option you have set for

your

> > calculations, because this is Option-2 not Option-3 as I have

> > mentioned earlier.

> >

> > Thanks for your help in advance.

> >

> > Regards

> > Rao

> > ==================

> >

> > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> > > horizon

> > > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> > > horizon

> > > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> > > horizon

> > >

> > > Default is options-3:

> >

> >

> > jhora , Gauranga Das <gauranga@b...>

wrote:

> > > Dear Rao,

> > >

> > > Namaste.

> > >

> > > Mind if I blurt in?

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Rao Nemani " <raonemani>

> > > <jhora >

> > > Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:42 PM

> > > Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

> > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Rao Ji,

> > > >

> > > > I have seen the following options available in JH 5 ,

> > > > for " Sunrise Defintion Selection " :-

> > > >

> > > > 1) The center of Sun's Disk is truly on the eastern

> > > > horizon

> > > > 2) The tip of Sun's disk is truly on the eastern

> > > > horizon

> > > > 3) The tip of Sun's disk appears to be on the eastern

> > > > horizon

> > > >

> > > > Default is options-3:

> > > >

> > > > Can you please tell me on what situation we should use

> > > > these options, and I was told by a friend of mine to

> > > > use Option-1 for an accurate PranaPada Calculation.

> > > > Please confirm this?.

> > > >

> > > > I am currently using Option-1, which impacts the

> > > > calculation of the longitudes of special lagnas like

> > > > HL, GL and Upagrahas like Kaal, Mrityu, Gulika snd

> > > > Mandi.

> > >

> > > Definitely all this gets ifluenced by the sunrise point.

> However

> > there's

> > > different sampradayas on this, so you should experiment to

find

> the

> > best for

> > > your taste. One method to do this is as follows: read the

> Pranapada

> > > definitons from BPHS and Jaimini Sutram, and take several

cases

> > with exactly

> > > known birth time. Try out potions 1, 2, and 3 and see if

PPL

> > changes signs.

> > > Read which reading is more suitable to the native. After a

few

> > experiments

> > > you will see which one you prefer. I use the default

potion, as

> I

> > believe

> > > this was used by the sages, as this is observable with the

help

> of

> > sloar

> > > observatories like they had in Ujjain, Jaipur or Delhi.

> > >

> > > > I am interested to get a very accurate PranaPada

> > > > Lagna, so me using Option-1 is correct?.

> > > >

> > > > Also I am using " Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days) "

> > > > as my customized option, please tell me where do I see

> > > > the difference of results if I use one of the

> > > > following:-

> > > >

> > > > Also What definition of the year you are using

> > > > a) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg per year)

> > > > b) Normal Solar Year ( 365.2425 days)

> > > > c) Savana year ( 360 days)

> > > > d) Solar Longitude based year ( 360 deg)

> > > > e) year with 360 Tithis.

> > >

> > > This makes difference with Dasas. Some astrologers use

Savana

> years

> > or tithi

> > > years for Nakshatra dasas, althoguh Sanjay emphatically

uses

> normal

> > solar

> > > year. For rasi dasas 360 deg year fits better, although it

does

> not

> > differ

> > > much from normal sloar year.

> > >

> > > Yours,

> > >

> > > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer

> > > gauranga@b...

> > > Jyotish Remedies:

> > > WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET

> > > Phone:+36-309-140-839

> > >

> > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Rao

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Dear Rao and Narasimha,

 

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

Just wanted to give my two pence opinion about the sunrise definition.

Option-3 The tip of Sun appearing on eastern horizon, I don't really

understand what is meant with this. Is it the apparent rising of Sun disk

taking into account parallax factor or something? Or is it what is

actually seen as Sun's tip rising, depending on the place one observes it?

In the last case, the sunrise will be different from meter to meter, as

one can live in a mountainous place, and thus see the sunrise considerably

different from say a 100 m distance from there. Also, trees, houses, can

block the vision so one cannot really trust what is the actual sunrise

time then.

 

Considering the other two options, it doesn't really matter to take tip or

center, from the point of view of actually observing the sunrise, for the

same reason as given above. Therefore the option I prefer is option - 1,

center of Sun's disk. In the case of Vimsottari dasha - do we calculate

from Moon's tip or Moon's center for the correct longitude of Moon? In the

same way, then why would we calculate Sun's tip rather than Sun's center

for the actual longitude of Sun? We do count from the ascending degree to

the descending degree (180° from each other) in 7th house for the

invisible half of zodiac and from 7th to lagna for visible half of the

zodiac. Then isn't it the actual longitude of Sun (center) crossing the

ascending degree which marks Sunrise?

 

Anyway, this is my opinion. I'm sure it's shared by many others as well.

For research, have a look at the attached chart - from a jyotishi's

daughter who had the time of birth taken accurately to the second (if we

can believe the doctor who did the caesarean birth) and this is the time

of cutting umbilical cord.

 

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

Jyotisha

http://www.radhadesh.com

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Namaste,

 

To see the meaning of the three definitions, please go to

 

vedic astrologysunrise.gif

 

Pictures 1, 2 and 3 respectively illustrate options 3, 2 and 1 given in JH.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

-------------------------

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

www.VedicAstrologer.org

email: pvr

email2: pvr108

Tel: +1 508 839 1218

-------------------------

 

-

Dhira Krsna BCS

jhora

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:35 PM

Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

 

Dear Rao and Narasimha,

 

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

Just wanted to give my two pence opinion about the sunrise definition.

Option-3 The tip of Sun appearing on eastern horizon, I don't really

understand what is meant with this. Is it the apparent rising of Sun disk

taking into account parallax factor or something? Or is it what is

actually seen as Sun's tip rising, depending on the place one observes it?

In the last case, the sunrise will be different from meter to meter, as

one can live in a mountainous place, and thus see the sunrise considerably

different from say a 100 m distance from there. Also, trees, houses, can

block the vision so one cannot really trust what is the actual sunrise

time then.

 

Considering the other two options, it doesn't really matter to take tip or

center, from the point of view of actually observing the sunrise, for the

same reason as given above. Therefore the option I prefer is option - 1,

center of Sun's disk. In the case of Vimsottari dasha - do we calculate

from Moon's tip or Moon's center for the correct longitude of Moon? In the

same way, then why would we calculate Sun's tip rather than Sun's center

for the actual longitude of Sun? We do count from the ascending degree to

the descending degree (180° from each other) in 7th house for the

invisible half of zodiac and from 7th to lagna for visible half of the

zodiac. Then isn't it the actual longitude of Sun (center) crossing the

ascending degree which marks Sunrise?

 

Anyway, this is my opinion. I'm sure it's shared by many others as well.

For research, have a look at the attached chart - from a jyotishi's

daughter who had the time of birth taken accurately to the second (if we

can believe the doctor who did the caesarean birth) and this is the time

of cutting umbilical cord.

 

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

Jyotisha

http://www.radhadesh.com

 

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|| Jaya Jagannath ||

Dear Dhira Krsna dasa,

 

My comments below:

 

Best Wishes

Sarajit Poddar

SJC- Asia

 

----

 

 

jhora

Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:02:45 AM

jhora

Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

 

Dear Rao and Narasimha,Hare Rama Krsna!Just wanted to give my two pence opinion about the sunrise definition.Option-3 The tip of Sun appearing on eastern horizon, I don't reallyunderstand what is meant with this. Is it the apparent rising of Sun disktaking into account parallax factor or something? Or is it what isactually seen as Sun's tip rising, depending on the place one observes it?In the last case, the sunrise will be different from meter to meter, asone can live in a mountainous place, and thus see the sunrise considerablydifferent from say a 100 m distance from there. Also, trees, houses, canblock the vision so one cannot really trust what is the actual sunrisetime then.

[sP] Ancient times all the activites used to be closely link to the Sun's movement and hence the rising and setting time of the Sun was given prime importance. Now what is meant by rising is the issue here. For those people, rising meant when the first ray of Sun was visible on the horizon. This cannot be the center of the Sun rising on the horizon as by that time the half of the solar disk would have risen on the horizon.

But now, what is the difference between the apparent rising and real rising of the Sun's upper tip? We know that the earth is covered by a thick layer of atmosphere, which due to refraction, bends the light. Thus, the first ray of Sun appears on the Horizon, even if the Tip of the sun is below the horizon. Thus the apparent rising would be the time when we see the Sunlight on the horizon, irrespective of whether it has reached the horizon.

Now as you said the apparent rising could be difficult as the environment can be blocked by Trees or Mountains or like... but I think this would only make differences in few secs in Sunlight.... However, I "feel" that this should be the time, when Sun's first ray would be visible on the Horizon on a plane and not obstructed by anything. Moreover the day should be a clear and normal day as the refractive index of the atmosphere would vary with the quality of the Atmosphere.

Considering the other two options, it doesn't really matter to take tip orcenter, from the point of view of actually observing the sunrise, for thesame reason as given above. Therefore the option I prefer is option - 1,center of Sun's disk. In the case of Vimsottari dasha - do we calculatefrom Moon's tip or Moon's center for the correct longitude of Moon? In thesame way, then why would we calculate Sun's tip rather than Sun's centerfor the actual longitude of Sun? We do count from the ascending degree tothe descending degree (180° from each other) in 7th house for theinvisible half of zodiac and from 7th to lagna for visible half of thezodiac. Then isn't it the actual longitude of Sun (center) crossing theascending degree which marks Sunrise?

[sP] When we map the Sun in the zodiac, we use the center of the Sun and not any tip like any other planet. For illustration, when we say that Sun is in the 10deg Aries, we mean that Sun's Center is in 10deg Aries. This is the reason, why we cannot take the Lagna starting from the Sun's longitude but some 50-60 Arcsecs behind the solar longitude at Sunrise... Or, the Lagna Transits over the Solar Longitude approximately after 4 mins.

If Center of Sun option is chosen, then at Sunrise, the Lagna and the solar longitude would be the same. As we know that anything rises (center of that planet) above the horizon, when Lagna moves over that body. So the solar tip would rise, when Lagna moves over it! and hence if solar tip option is chosen, at sunrise, the lagna transits the tip of the Sun, which is approximately 1deg (longitude) away from the Sun's center (which is Sun's longitude). In this case, the Sun's logitude (Sun's Center) rises approximately after 4 mins.Anyway, this is my opinion. I'm sure it's shared by many others as well.For research, have a look at the attached chart - from a jyotishi'sdaughter who had the time of birth taken accurately to the second (if wecan believe the doctor who did the caesarean birth) and this is the timeof cutting umbilical cord.Yours,Dhira Krsna dasa,Jyotishahttp://www.radhadesh.com

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Dear Sarajit,

 

Hare Rama Krsna!

 

I'll just reply with a verse from BPHS. You say sunrise is when first rays

of the Sun become apparent in the sky. As far as my eyes can observe and

knowledge reaches, sunrays already appear in the sky at dawn, long before

the Sun rises. Then how can you say it denotes Sunrise?

 

>[sP] Ancient times all the activites used to be closely link to the Sun's

>movement and hence the rising and setting time of the Sun was given

>prime importance. Now what is meant by rising is the issue here. For

>those people, rising meant when the first ray of Sun was visible on the

>horizon. This cannot be the center of the Sun rising on the horizon as by

>that time the half of the solar disk would have risen on the horizon.

 

Let's quote Parasara in BPHS Ch. 9 text 14 Definition of Sandhya:

" 3 Ghatikas before the sight of the semi disc (half) of the rising Sun and

a similar duration following the Sun set are called as morning twilight

and evening twilight respectively. "

 

Similarly, another description of sandhya is there in Ch. 46, texts 44-49

with reference to semi-disc of Sun.

 

Why Parasara mentioned the semi disc here, and not the tip of the disc, as

Sunrise? Please explain.

 

Yours,

Dhira Krsna dasa,

Jyotisha

http://www.radhadesh.com

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|| Jaya Jagannath ||

Dear Dhira Krsna,

 

In those slokas Maharishi Parashara gave the definition of the Muhurthas which are considered inauspicious for childbirth and considered evil, viz, the Sandhyas, the junction points of day and night... The junction of the day and night although associated with Sunrise and Sunset, is not the exact time of Sunrise and Sunset. 3 Ghatikas is 1.5 muhurthas (1 muhurtha = 48 mins). Here, he was not referring to the Sunrise and Sunset, as the Sunrise cannot be before 72 minutes before half rise of Solar Disk. Only after a few minutes from apprearing of the Sunrays, the solar disc rises on the horizon, so you see, that the 72 min before the rise of half of solar disk, is strickly for the Sandhya Duration.

 

Now if somebody asks, why the Sandhyas are not exactly during the Sunrise and Sunset is a different question altogether.

 

Best Wishes

Sarajit

 

-

Dhira Krsna BCS

vedic astrology ; jhora

Cc: Varahamihira

Saturday, July 19, 2003 3:15 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Re: Sunrise Defintion Selection Question ?

Dear Sarajit,Hare Rama Krsna!I'll just reply with a verse from BPHS. You say sunrise is when first raysof the Sun become apparent in the sky. As far as my eyes can observe andknowledge reaches, sunrays already appear in the sky at dawn, long beforethe Sun rises. Then how can you say it denotes Sunrise?>[sP] Ancient times all the activites used to be closely link to the Sun's>movement and hence the rising and setting time of the Sun was given>prime importance. Now what is meant by rising is the issue here. For>those people, rising meant when the first ray of Sun was visible on the>horizon. This cannot be the center of the Sun rising on the horizon as by>that time the half of the solar disk would have risen on the horizon.Let's quote Parasara in BPHS Ch. 9 text 14 Definition of Sandhya:"3 Ghatikas before the sight of the semi disc (half) of the rising Sun anda similar duration following the Sun set are called as morning twilightand evening twilight respectively."Similarly, another description of sandhya is there in Ch. 46, texts 44-49with reference to semi-disc of Sun.Why Parasara mentioned the semi disc here, and not the tip of the disc, asSunrise? Please explain.Yours,Dhira Krsna dasa,Jyotishahttp://www.radhadesh.com

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