Guest guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 08/19/2005 05:48PM ----- mrm <notify > 08/19/2005 04:48PM Unable to deliver your message We are unable to deliver the message from to . You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or other formats are not allowed. For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ ----- Message from mrm on Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:50:15 +0530 ----- Subject:Re: Future in Politics? Dear Mr. Silva, Sun the primary significator of spouse is badly placed but triggering the 8th. house of marital-tie and the 2nd. house of family. Jupiter the 8th. lord of marital-tie and karaka for spouse is well placed. Mars the 12th. lord of bed-pleasures is in extreme infancy. Venus the 6th. lord of disputes has gone to the 7th. lord of spouse but not afflicting and Venus is debilitated in Navamsa. There are no afflictions to any house concerning marriage.Hence not able to account for the delay in marriage. Please suggest Remedial measures. Let us wait other members to comment. Regards M.R.Murali ----- wrote: ----- " JAYAMPATH " <jayampat Sent by: 08/19/2005 03:50PM Future in Politics? Hello Friends, This is a chart of a single lady expatriate (well educated & from a respectable family in India) working in Singapore .Born in Madras brought up in Delhi & has been overseas for the last 10 yrs .She is spiritual yet ambitious & adventurous & is determined to go back to India in about two years to get involved in clean politics in order to contribute to the progress of her motherland.Parents are more concerned of her marriage as she is the only child.She claims everything predicted so far by any astrologer has not come true though she has faith in Astrology.Her birth time is accurate according to her parents. What can we say about her future in politics etc.? Appreciate your contribution as I am not able to make much headway.I suppose Sun denoting politics is on the MEP of the 8H (badly placed) & Jup (Malific)is in the 10th Aqua.Ma, another Malefic is extremely weak in 4H ..What could be the the reason for no success in marriage so far? What can we suggest for improvements as well. Jan 8th 1963, 3.50 pm,Madras,India. Tau Asdt. C/Period ....Sa/Ve Thanks for your time J de Silva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 08/20/2005 03:52PM ----- mrm <notify > 08/20/2005 02:13PM Unable to deliver your message We are unable to deliver the message from to . You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or other formats are not allowed. For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ ----- Message from mrm on Sat, 20 Aug 2005 14:15:32 +0530 ----- Subject:Re: Future in Politics Dear Mr. De Silva, I have seen our professor's reply. Regards M.R.Murali ----- wrote: ----- " JAYAMPATH " <jayampat Sent by: 08/20/2005 12:04PM Re: Future in Politics Dear Mr. Murli, Sorry I did not see your reply when replying to the Prof. Thank you very kindly for your interest & reply. I had almost the same logic you have pointed out until our Prof. had analysed it differently & suggested certain measures to overcome the affliction as well as weakness.He should know better,don't you think? Now I am waiting for the party to come back to discuss the matter. All the Best J de Silva - <mrm Friday, August 19, 2005 8:17 PM Fw: Unable to deliver your message > > > > -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 08/19/2005 05:48PM ----- > > > mrm > <notify > > 08/19/2005 04:48PM > Unable to deliver your message > > We are unable to deliver the message from > to . > > You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or > other formats are not allowed. > > For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ > > ----- Message from mrm on Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:50:15 +0530 > ----- > > > Subject:Re: Future in Politics? > > Dear Mr. Silva, > Sun the primary significator of spouse is badly placed but triggering > the 8th. house of marital-tie and the 2nd. house of family. > Jupiter the 8th. lord of marital-tie and karaka for spouse is well placed. > Mars the 12th. lord of bed-pleasures is in extreme infancy. > Venus the 6th. lord of disputes has gone to the 7th. lord of spouse but not > afflicting and Venus is debilitated in Navamsa. > There are no afflictions to any house concerning marriage.Hence not able to > account for the delay in marriage. Please suggest Remedial measures. > Let us wait other members to comment. > Regards > M.R.Murali > > ----- wrote: ----- > > > > " JAYAMPATH " <jayampat > Sent by: > 08/19/2005 03:50PM > Future in Politics? > > Hello Friends, > > This is a chart of a single lady expatriate (well educated & from a > respectable family in India) working in Singapore .Born in Madras brought > up in Delhi & has been overseas for the last 10 yrs .She is spiritual yet > ambitious & adventurous & is determined to go back to India in about two > years to get involved in clean politics in order to contribute to the > progress of her motherland.Parents are more concerned of her marriage as > she is the only child.She claims everything predicted so far by any > astrologer has not come true though she has faith in Astrology.Her birth > time is accurate according to her parents. > What can we say about her future in politics etc.? > Appreciate your contribution as I am not able to make much headway.I > suppose Sun denoting politics is on the MEP of the 8H (badly placed) & Jup > (Malific)is in the 10th Aqua.Ma, another Malefic is extremely weak in 4H > .What could be the the reason for no success in marriage so far? > What can we suggest for improvements as well. > > Jan 8th 1963, 3.50 pm,Madras,India. Tau Asdt. C/Period ....Sa/Ve > > Thanks for your time > > J de Silva > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 11/03/2005 12:11PM ----- mrm <notify > 11/03/2005 11:39AM Unable to deliver your message We are unable to deliver the message from to . You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or other formats are not allowed. For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ ----- Message from mrm on Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:42:24 +0530 ----- Subject:A Quiz Dear Ajit, I have the following to say: In the chart, Mercury is debilitated. Jupiter is debilitated in Navamsa. Moon is badly placed. Transit during the first week of April: The native in Rahu dasha and Moon bhukthi. Both are malefics and Moon operating from the 8th. house. Moon is afflicting the 8th. house of marital tie and mercury is debilitated. Moon is afflicting the 7th. lord Sun but Venus the Karaka is Exalted. Moon is afflicting the 8th. lord Mercury and also the 2nd. mouse. The Transit shows that TR_ Mercury is afflicting both natal Sun and Natal Moon.TR-Moon is in the 12th. house of loses. Sun is the Karaka for father and afflicted but the 9th. lord Venus is exalted but placed in a weak house. Natal Moon Karaka for mother is afflicted by TR- Mercury. Loss of Mother or longtime partners or hereditary property. 2) Transit on 20th. June 2005: The Dasha is Rahu in Mars bhukthi. Mars is afflicted in Ketu bhukthi only. Jupiter the 11th. lord is debilitated in Navamsa. Mars the 3rd. lord is afflicted by Ketu. TR- Mars in conjunction with Natal Mercury and gets affected. TR- Mars aspects Natal Jupiter. TR- Mercury in wide conjunction with TR- Venus. Monies received by selling enterprise or loss of father. Regards M.R.Murali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 12/08/2005 12:04PM ----- mrm <notify > 12/08/2005 11:31AM Unable to deliver your message We are unable to deliver the message from to . You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or other formats are not allowed. For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ ----- Message from mrm on Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:32:41 +0530 ----- Subject:Re: Re: 12th house depositor Thank you Mr. Amit. Regards M.R.Murali ----- wrote: ----- " amit_patnaik6 " <amit_patnaik6 Sent by: 12/07/2005 09:04PM Re: 12th house depositor Dear Murali ji, Yes correct, in addition i gave a very general view below not specific to 3rd in the 12th. Every chart has to be specifically analyzed, a planet never looses its significance due to weakness, its just fails to adequately promote. Regards Amit , mrm@t... wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Amit, > > I have the following to say when the 3rd. lord goes to the 12th. house:It > becomes weak, but the significations are connected. > Communication, courage, initiative and younger siblings are connected with, > life in a foreign contry, hospitalisation, losses, confinement, > imprisonment and bed pleasures. > Regards > M.R.Murali > ----- wrote: ----- > > > > " amit_patnaik6 " <amit_patnaik6> > Sent by: > 12/06/2005 08:25PM > Re: 12th house depositor > > > Hello Fraser, > > Bad Placement of Planet or any weakness does not disable the planets > to retain its own significations. Venus lord of the 3rd will always > retain the signification of, younger siblings, communicatione etc and > its general properties, assets luxuries love etc. > It will fail to promote(meaning the relative success of the house from > a worldy view) the same to an acceptable degree, one which makes the > native happy and content. > > The 12th house placement of a planet Generally will give > expenses,losses,confinement and lack of appreciation,to the > significance of the planets placed in it. > Since to human beings, things are as you percieve and view it. > 12th house significance also gives the percieved positives, bed > pleasures, moksha, expenses for luxuries,foreign lands and would > connect to the placed planets significance. > > Since you ask about dispositor, the placed planets would also show > trends of the strength/placement/aspect/conjunction of its dispositor > with other planets and houses, and would be further weakend due to weak > dispositor. > > Regards > Amit > > > > > > , " fraser " <fraser@p...> wrote: > > > > Hello LIST, > > A question, if you please... > > If the 12th House depositor is weak, > > would the planets posited in 12th House, > > be able to retain their own significations. > > Thanks, > > Fraser. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 12/13/2005 10:49AM ----- mrm <notify > 12/13/2005 10:26AM Unable to deliver your message We are unable to deliver the message from to . You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or other formats are not allowed. For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ ----- Message from mrm on Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:29:10 +0530 ----- Subject:Re: Re: IAS TOPPER?? Thank you Sir, Regards M.R.Murali ----- wrote: ----- <siha Sent by: 12/12/2005 05:59PM Re: Re: IAS TOPPER?? Hello dear Mr. Murali, Right. Best wishes, - <mrm Monday, December 12, 2005 5:35 PM Re: Re: IAS TOPPER?? > > > Dear Professor, > > I thank you for your clarification. > The strong Jupiter would have helped him in his studies for IAS.? > Regards > M.R.Murali > ----- wrote: ----- > > > > <siha > Sent by: > 12/12/2005 11:51AM > Re: Re: IAS TOPPER?? > > > Hello dear Mr. Murali, > > Venus is weak and afflicted and this will have impact on his health and > will > harm him through conflicts in life besides making him vulnerable to > accidents. > > The Sun is weak. The lord of the third and second houses also act as Sun. > The affliction to Mars shows problems in both executive job and marital > life > of those born in Taurus ascendant. Jupiter is well placed and is not > afflicted. So this gives some amount of benefit to the person through > unearned favors/gains. > > The Sun of US President George Bush is also badly placed and weak. You > would remember while predicting his victory I had stressed the strength of > his third lord for his victory. > > Best wishes, > > > > > - > <mrm > > Monday, December 12, 2005 10:59 AM > Re: Re: IAS TOPPER?? > > >> >> >> Dear Professor, >> >> I have a doubt in this chart. >> Venus and Sun are badly placed in the 8th. house and hence orb. of >> affliction is 5 degrees.For Jupiter which is well placed the orb. of >> affliction is one degree. >> So Jupiter afflicts Venus and Jupiter is not afflicted. >> I would request you to clarify. >> With Best regards >> M.R.Murali >> ----- wrote: ----- >> >> >> >> <siha >> Sent by: >> 12/11/2005 08:42AM >> Re: Re: IAS TOPPER?? >> >> >> Hello Dev, >> >> You are right that only transit influences cannot activate such an >> important >> incident. >> >> Besides the close influence of the Mercury on the asdt in this case it is >> the close conjunction of the Moon (a royal planet) with the lord of the >> tenth house, Saturn. Though both of the Moon and Saturn are not fully >> strong >> but there close conjunction rejuvenates their lost power to an extent. >> >> Clearing the Civil Services exam is a long process and in this process of >> preparating and taking the exam this person saw both the sub periods of >> Saturn and Mercury. In Venus sub period he only got the results of his >> work >> in the sub periods of Saturn and Mercury. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> >> www.YourNetAstrologer.com >> A-105, South City II, Gurgaon 122101 (India) >> Phones: 91 124 - 2219240 >> Mobile 98110 16333 >> >> >> - >> " kdsips " <kdsips >> >> Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:30 AM >> Re: IAS TOPPER?? >> >> >>> >>> Thanks Rui, >>> I appreciate it a lot. Rui, From what you mentioned about this person >>> ,I feel that execpt mercury no other palnet is aspecting the MEPS and >>> activating them. I am sorry i didnt told the time when he got into the >>> job , But It was 10th may 2005.But my question is if we happen to >>> just concentrate on the potential of going into such coveted job,It >>> seems that doesnt exist in the chart. How then the transit effect >>> create a potential . I suppose that transit can only activate and >>> actualise the inherent potential in the chart ,if there is no >>> potential then how come transit reap benefit. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Dev >>> >>> >>> >>> , rupamede <rupamede@g...> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dev, >>>> The chart of your friend reveals one single planet having influence >>>> over the MEP and that is Mercury, the planet significator for research >>>> scholars and everything related to education in general. Mercury is a >>>> benefic planet for Taurus and it is aspecting his ascendant so this >>>> should eventually have a positive effect on him. >>>> It is true Mercury is debilitated in Navamsa and this makes it weak >>>> however it is strategically placed in the 7th and it may become useful >>>> in times like this should transits be also favourable. >>>> Since you have not supplied an exact date, I cannot help you more and >>>> I risk being wrong, but my hint is that Mercury 5th lord is here one >>>> of the major factors because it has recently been hovering its natal >>>> position and aspecting his ascendant. >>>> The Sun as well, even though weak in the natal chart, may have a good >>>> transit influence when transiting the MEP if it is a benefic and I >>>> believe that is what has happened. >>>> Again, I think that if an exact date could be supplied for transits >>>> analysis, then maybe more people would venture to help. >>>> Best wishes, Rui. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 09/12/05, siha <siha> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hello Dev, >>>> > >>>> > If you can't keep patience and learn, at least, I can't help you. >>>> > >>>> > Best wishes, >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > - >>>> > " kdsips " <kdsips> >>>> > >>>> > Friday, December 09, 2005 5:43 AM >>>> > Re: IAS TOPPER?? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Hello List, >>>> > > Isnt there anyone to help me out on this. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Regards >>>> > > >>>> > > Dev >>>> > > >>>> > > , " kdsips " <kdsips> wrote: >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Hello List, >>>> > >> I am putting forward for discussion a chart of one of my friend > who >>>> > >> topped IAS examination this year. >>>> > >> He was running the dasha of sun and antar dasha of venus when he >>>> > > got >>>> > >> selected . The dasha lord sun is weak as it is placed in 8th house >>>> > >> also antar dasha lord Venus is malefic for tauraus lagan .So >>> how the >>>> > >> dasha of weak planet alongwith antardasha of malefic lead him to >>>> > > brak >>>> > >> up one of the top most exam in the country?? >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Also as far as yoga for such esteemed services doesnt seems bright >>>> > > to >>>> > >> me in chart as 10 house is not activated by benefic planet its >>>> > > lord , >>>> > >> though placed in a good house but its dispositor is weak , planet >>>> > > of >>>> > >> magnificiant status SUN is weak in 8th house, planet governing >>>> > >> opponents, is combust.So what made him crack civil services?? >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Details >>>> > >> >>>> > >> 30/12/77 >>>> > >> place- patiala (India) >>>> > >> Time 16.02 pm >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Regards >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Dev >>>> > >> >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Hi MRM, Your email never go to Frasers post... But why do you say the Sun is strong? Do you agree with my reading? Rui. On 16/12/05, mrm <mrm wrote: > > > > -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 12/16/2005 03:28PM ----- > > > mrm > <notify > > 12/16/2005 02:46PM > Unable to deliver your message > > We are unable to deliver the message from > to . > > You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or > other formats are not allowed. > > For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ > > ----- Message from mrm on Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:48:57 +0530 > ----- > > > Subject:Re: no education > > Dear Mr. Fraser, > Moon is helping the 2nd. and 8th., houses. > Sun is strong in the chart and hence no trouble for higher studies though > the 2nd. lord is afflicted and so is Mercury and Jupiter. > Basic education would have been a problem in the respective bhukthi's. > Regards > M.R.Murali > > ----- wrote: ----- > > > > " fraser " <fraser > Sent by: > 12/16/2005 02:47AM > no education > > > Hello LIST, Mr. Choudhry, Sir, > Could someone please throw some light on the education prospects for > this chart. > So far this is what I see. Is there any hope that this native could > get a good education at all. > ? Venus, (lord of 2nd house) is combust and afflicted by malefic Sun. > ? Lagna lord Mercury is in 6th house, and afflicted by malefic > Saturn. > ? 10th house Lord, Mercury in 6th house, and afflicted by malefic > Saturn. > ? Jupiter, the Lord of 4th house is debilitated and afflicted by MMP > Mars. > -------- > DOB: Apr 4,1973 > TOB: 5:17PM TimeZone: -5:30 > 77E13 28N40 > Ascendant 03:31 > ------ > Regards, > Fraser. > > > Visit your group " " on the web. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Dear Rui, I look at education in the following manner. 1) Basic education ruled by 4th.and Moon and Mercury. 4th. lord Jupiter is debilitated and afflicted and hence severely afflicted.The secondary significators are Moon and Mercury. Though moon is badly placed it is on the MEP and hence helps the 8th., and 2nd. house not useful for basic education. Mercury is afflicted and badly placed and hence severely afflicted. Some hiccups in basic education during the relevant bhukthi's. 2) Higher education is ruled by 5th., 2nd., 9th., and Sun, Mercury and Jupiter. 2nd. lord Venus is combust and hence afflicted by Sun. Sun is strong and being the secondary significator helps to some extent. Moon is also aspecting the MEP of the 2nd. house and also helps. With Best Regards M.R.Murali ----- wrote: ----- rupamede <rupamede Sent by: 12/16/2005 08:15PM Re: Fw: Unable to deliver your message Hi MRM, Your email never go to Frasers post... But why do you say the Sun is strong? Do you agree with my reading? Rui. On 16/12/05, mrm <mrm wrote: > > > > -----Forwarded by Murali M.R/CHEN-FERAG/ksl on 12/16/2005 03:28PM ----- > > > mrm > <notify > > 12/16/2005 02:46PM > Unable to deliver your message > > We are unable to deliver the message from > to . > > You can only send plain text messages to this group. HTML or > other formats are not allowed. > > For further assistance, please visit http://help./help/us/groups/ > > ----- Message from mrm on Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:48:57 +0530 > ----- > > > Subject:Re: no education > > Dear Mr. Fraser, > Moon is helping the 2nd. and 8th., houses. > Sun is strong in the chart and hence no trouble for higher studies though > the 2nd. lord is afflicted and so is Mercury and Jupiter. > Basic education would have been a problem in the respective bhukthi's. > Regards > M.R.Murali > > ----- wrote: ----- > > > > " fraser " <fraser > Sent by: > 12/16/2005 02:47AM > no education > > > Hello LIST, Mr. Choudhry, Sir, > Could someone please throw some light on the education prospects for > this chart. > So far this is what I see. Is there any hope that this native could > get a good education at all. > ? Venus, (lord of 2nd house) is combust and afflicted by malefic Sun. > ? Lagna lord Mercury is in 6th house, and afflicted by malefic > Saturn. > ? 10th house Lord, Mercury in 6th house, and afflicted by malefic > Saturn. > ? Jupiter, the Lord of 4th house is debilitated and afflicted by MMP > Mars. > -------- > DOB: Apr 4,1973 > TOB: 5:17PM TimeZone: -5:30 > 77E13 28N40 > Ascendant 03:31 > ------ > Regards, > Fraser. > > > Visit your group " " on the web. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Dear SIR,Aslesha Nakshatra is called Sarpa,The Cancer sign is called Kulir ,even this is dictionary meaning as welljataka classics calls Cancer as KulirAs such twins were born in Cancer Lagna and Moon was in Aslesha.I could understand that much.I study Valmiki Ramayan so that I could improve my conduct.I have not made any study from Astronomy or Astrological pointof view.Many thanks for your mail.Beat regards,G. K. Goel CC: ; vedic astrology ; vedic_research_institute From: sunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:07:56 -0700Re: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Dear Goelji,Yes, I am also of the opinion that all the brothers were born when the Sun was in Pisces. Now coming to "Kuleera" it does mean the snake by the name "Kuleera" and so also does the word "Sarpa" mean snake. It could be that "Kuleera Sarpa" (ie. the snake called "Kuleera") is used here to mean the Ashlesha Nakshatra. The meaning will be obvious if we realign the words in the second lineof the verse and we know that in Sanskrit the words can be repositioned to make a better rhyme and that is what the poet had done it the original text. I believe the Sanskrit grammarians will not object tothis. The verse now appears as follows:puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |kuLIre saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 . To me it appears that during the Ramayana days (ie. around the 9th millennium BCE) Karkata was used to denote the Rashi and its use was specifically to denote Lagna. Rashi in the astrological sense came to be used only about six thousand years later after the Mahabharata days. Kuleera might not have been used to mean cancer in the days of Ramayana as we have seen that while describing the birth of Lord Rama the word Karkata was used for Cancer.Secondly Lord Rama was born at noon time in Punarvasu Nakshatra (ie. when the Moon was in punarvasu nakshatra). Bharat was born in the Pushya Nakshatra and the Twins in the Ashlesha nakshatra. So there must be more that 24 hours gap between the birth of Lord Rama and the Twins. If we go by your interpretation then the Twins were born past the noon time, ie.in the afternoon. Then how can we reconcile with the wording : "abhyudite ravau", which to my mind means "at the time the Sun was rising"?Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Tue, 10/13/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Cc: , vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:46 AM Dear Sunil ji,Frankly speaking , rightly or wrongly , I some how gather the impressionthat preparation of nativities were become popular after the era of Mahabharata.The savant then prepared the nativities based on the information available with them. Naturally 4000 years back they must be having betteraccess TO CLASSICS as well astronomical and astrological practices prevalent in those days:Now we try to understand the verse;puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 I will comment on the first line:puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |As the name of BHARTA IS APPEARING FIRST , IT IS CLEAR THAT HE WASBORN EARLIER IN PUSHYA NAKSHATRA AND PISCES Lagna,His disposition was cheerfulAND PLEASENT.saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIreSumitra gave birth to twins in aslesa nakshatra and Cancer Lagna(KULIRE) abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 THESE TWO WORDS ARE QUALIYYING THE BIRTH OF ALL THE THREE BROTHERS. THESE TWO WORDS INDICATE THAT ALL THE THREE WERE BORN AFTER sUN RISE.THIS MEANS THAT BHART WAS BORN IN PISCES LAGNA WITH SUN AND BOTH THE TWINS WERE BORH IN CANCER LAGNA AT ABOUT NOON WITH SUN IN PISCES.MY INFRENCE IS THAT ALL THE FOUR BROTHERES WERE BORN WHEN SUNWAS IN PISCES , MOON AND JUPITER IN CANCER. JUPITER WAS IN PUSYA NAKSHATRAAS EARLIER VERSE SAYS 'VAKPATI ' WHICH HAS DUAL MEANING 'JUPITER' AND ALSO 'PUSYA'NAKSHATRA.THE PERSONS WHICH IS BORN WITH SUN JUST AFTER THE RISING DEGREEARE VERY FAMOUS AND LUCKY. THEIR ALL THE SPECIAL LAGNAL LIKE BHAVA,HORA,GHATI ETC 12 LAGNA FALL IN ASCENDING SIGN. BHART AL WILL FALL IN 9TH HOUSEAND HIS ALL LAGNAS WILL BE ASPECTED BY EXALTED JUPITER. HIS A10 FALLS IN 12TH HOUSE ANS AL AND A6 FALLS IN 9TH HOUSE . HE HAD RENOUNCE THE KINGDOM FOR SOME CAUSE (KARKA OF YONGER BROTHERS , EXALTED MARS IS PLACED IN11TH HOUSE REPRESENTING ELDER BROTHER)REGARDS,G. K. Goel From the events that change the world, to the ones that just shouldn’t be missed. Catch it all on MSN India. Drag n’ drop Don’t fall behind. Log on to MSN India for a roundup on the world panorama Dear SIR,Aslesha Nakshatra is called Sarpa,The Cancer sign is called Kulir ,even this is dictionary meaning as welljataka classics calls Cancer as KulirAs such twins were born in Cancer Lagna and Moon was in Aslesha.I could understand that much.I study Valmiki Ramayan so that I could improve my conduct.I have not made any study from Astronomy or Astrological pointof view.Many thanks for your mail.Beat regards,G. K. Goel CC: ; vedic astrology ; vedic_research_institute From: sunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:07:56 -0700Re: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Dear Goelji,Yes, I am also of the opinion that all the brothers were born when the Sun was in Pisces. Now coming to "Kuleera" it does mean the snake by the name "Kuleera" and so also does the word "Sarpa" mean snake. It could be that "Kuleera Sarpa" (ie. the snake called "Kuleera") is used here to mean the Ashlesha Nakshatra. The meaning will be obvious if we realign the words in the second line of the verse and we know that in Sanskrit the words can be repositioned to make a better rhyme and that is what the poet had done it the original text. I believe the Sanskrit grammarians will not object to this. The verse now appears as follows: puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |kuLIre saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 . To me it appears that during the Ramayana days (ie. around the 9th millennium BCE) Karkata was used to denote the Rashi and its use was specifically to denote Lagna. Rashi in the astrological sense came to be used only about six thousand years later after the Mahabharata days. Kuleera might not have been used to mean cancer in the days of Ramayana as we have seen that while describing the birth of Lord Rama the word Karkata was used for Cancer.Secondly Lord Rama was born at noon time in Punarvasu Nakshatra (ie. when the Moon was in punarvasu nakshatra). Bharat was born in the Pushya Nakshatra and the Twins in the Ashlesha nakshatra. So there must be more that 24 hours gap between the birth of Lord Rama and the Twins. If we go by your interpretation then the Twins were born past the noon time, ie.in the afternoon. Then how can we reconcile with the wording : "abhyudite ravau", which to my mind means "at the time the Sun was rising"?Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Tue, 10/13/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Cc: , vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:46 AM Dear Sunil ji,Frankly speaking , rightly or wrongly , I some how gather the impressionthat preparation of nativities were become popular after the era of Mahabharata.The savant then prepared the nativities based on the information available with them. Naturally 4000 years back they must be having betteraccess TO CLASSICS as well astronomical and astrological practices prevalent in those days:Now we try to understand the verse;puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 I will comment on the first line:puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |As the name of BHARTA IS APPEARING FIRST , IT IS CLEAR THAT HE WASBORN EARLIER IN PUSHYA NAKSHATRA AND PISCES Lagna,His disposition was cheerfulAND PLEASENT.saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre Sumitra gave birth to twins in aslesa nakshatra and Cancer Lagna(KULIRE) abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 THESE TWO WORDS ARE QUALIYYING THE BIRTH OF ALL THE THREE BROTHERS. THESE TWO WORDS INDICATE THAT ALL THE THREE WERE BORN AFTER sUN RISE.THIS MEANS THAT BHART WAS BORN IN PISCES LAGNA WITH SUN AND BOTH THE TWINS WERE BORH IN CANCER LAGNA AT ABOUT NOON WITH SUN IN PISCES.MY INFRENCE IS THAT ALL THE FOUR BROTHERES WERE BORN WHEN SUNWAS IN PISCES , MOON AND JUPITER IN CANCER. JUPITER WAS IN PUSYA NAKSHATRAAS EARLIER VERSE SAYS 'VAKPATI ' WHICH HAS DUAL MEANING 'JUPITER' AND ALSO 'PUSYA'NAKSHATRA.THE PERSONS WHICH IS BORN WITH SUN JUST AFTER THE RISING DEGREEARE VERY FAMOUS AND LUCKY. THEIR ALL THE SPECIAL LAGNAL LIKE BHAVA,HORA,GHATI ETC 12 LAGNA FALL IN ASCENDING SIGN. BHART AL WILL FALL IN 9TH HOUSEAND HIS ALL LAGNAS WILL BE ASPECTED BY EXALTED JUPITER. HIS A10 FALLS IN 12TH HOUSE ANS AL AND A6 FALLS IN 9TH HOUSE . HE HAD RENOUNCE THE KINGDOM FOR SOME CAUSE (KARKA OF YONGER BROTHERS , EXALTED MARS IS PLACED IN11TH HOUSE REPRESENTING ELDER BROTHER)REGARDS, G. K. Goel From the events that change the world, to the ones that just shouldn’t be missed. 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Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Dear Sunil ji,Frankly speaking , rightly or wrongly , I some how gather the impressionthat preparation of nativities were become popular after the era of Mahabharata.The savant then prepared the nativities based on the information available with them. Naturally 4000 years back they must be having betteraccess TO CLASSICS as well astronomical and astrological practices prevalent in those days:Now we try to understand the verse;puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 I will comment on the first line:puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |As the name of BHARTA IS APPEARING FIRST , IT IS CLEAR THAT HE WASBORN EARLIER IN PUSHYA NAKSHATRA AND PISCES Lagna,His disposition was cheerfulAND PLEASENT.saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIreSumitra gave birth to twins in aslesa nakshatra and Cancer Lagna(KULIRE) abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 THESE TWO WORDS ARE QUALIYYING THE BIRTH OF ALL THE THREE BROTHERS. THESE TWO WORDS INDICATE THAT ALL THE THREE WERE BORN AFTER sUN RISE.THIS MEANS THAT BHART WAS BORN IN PISCES LAGNA WITH SUN AND BOTH THE TWINS WERE BORH IN CANCER LAGNA AT ABOUT NOON WITH SUN IN PISCES.MY INFRENCE IS THAT ALL THE FOUR BROTHERES WERE BORN WHEN SUNWAS IN PISCES , MOON AND JUPITER IN CANCER. JUPITER WAS IN PUSYA NAKSHATRAAS EARLIER VERSE SAYS 'VAKPATI ' WHICH HAS DUAL MEANING 'JUPITER' AND ALSO 'PUSYA'NAKSHATRA.THE PERSONS WHICH IS BORN WITH SUN JUST AFTER THE RISING DEGREEARE VERY FAMOUS AND LUCKY. THEIR ALL THE SPECIAL LAGNAL LIKE BHAVA,HORA,GHATI ETC 12 LAGNA FALL IN ASCENDING SIGN. BHART AL WILL FALL IN 9TH HOUSEAND HIS ALL LAGNAS WILL BE ASPECTED BY EXALTED JUPITER. HIS A10 FALLS IN 12TH HOUSE ANS AL AND A6 FALLS IN 9TH HOUSE . HE HAD RENOUNCE THE KINGDOM FOR SOME CAUSE (KARKA OF YONGER BROTHERS , EXALTED MARS IS PLACED IN11TH HOUSE REPRESENTING ELDER BROTHER)REGARDS,G. K. Goel CC: Jyotishgroup ; vedic astrology ; Vedic_research_institute From: sunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:56:22 -0700RE: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Dear Goelji,This is further to the earlier mail on the subject. It was regarding the interpretation of the verse in the context of the birth of the twins of Sumitra. The relevant verse is :puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 You have interpreted it as : "Bharat was born in Pisces Lagna and Pusyva Nakshata, and twins of Sumitra were born in Cancer Lagna ans Aslesha Nakshatra - All the three births Took place after Sun rise , This means Bharta was born Pisces Lagna with Sun." In the last mail I said as follows: It could be that Bharata was born earlier and Lakshmana was born laterin the same Lagna and that is why the Lagna of Lakshmana and Shatrughnawas not mentioned separately. By the time Lakshmana and Shatrughna wereborn the Sun was already at the horizon ie. the Sunrise occurred.Within the same Lagna period the Moon shifted from the Pushya to theAshlesha Nakshatra.It appears to me that Bharata was born on the previous day and the twins were born on the following day as it would have taken one day for the Moon to to go from the Pushya to the Ashlesha Nakshatra. If we go by your interpretation the twins were born slightly more than three months after the birth of Bharata as the Sun would have required that much time (ie. slightly more than three months) to go from the end of the Mina Rashi to the Karkata Rashi. So there may be some ambiguity in the birthday of the twins but not in that of Lord Rama andd Bharata.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Sun, 10/11/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya > wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya >RE: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Cc: Jyotishgroup , vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 3:12 PMDear Goelji,I think it is then best to agree to disagree. Nakshatras are linked to the Moon and not to the Sun. The Sun is always lined to the Rashis. The verse do not mention that the twins of Sumitra were born in Karkata Lagna.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Sun, 10/11/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>RE: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 6:04 AM As far as I could understand from the sloka given inValmiki Ramayna: "Bharat was born in Pisces Lagna and Pusyva Nakshata, and twins of Sumitra were born in Cancer Lagna ans Aslesha Nakshatra - All the three births Took place after Sun rise , This means Bharta was born Pisces Lagna with Sun. This also explains the birth of Lord Rama on Navami Thithi. Now truth is only knowm to God.Regards,G. K. Goel ancient_indian_ astrologysunil_bhattacharjya @Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:44:34 -0700[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Dear Goelji,Further to the earlier mail I looked at the possible Lagna of Lakshmana and Shatrughna. In Ramayana their Lagna is not mentioned separately. Though we do not know the exact Sun-rise time in Ayodhya on the date of their birth I feel that the Lagna could be Mina, ie. the same as that of Bharata. In Ayodhya Lord Rama was born at mid-day and the Lagna was Karkata (Cancer). If we assume the Krakata Lagna period was from 12 noon to 2 pm then the Mina (Pisces) Lagna was from 4 am to 6 am. It could be that Bharata was born earlier and Lakshmana was born later in the same Lagna and that is why the Lagna of Lakshmana and Shatrughna was not mentioned separately. By the time Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born the Sun was already at the horizon ie. the Sunrise occurred. Within the same Lagna period the Moon shifted from the Pushya to the Ashlesha Nakshatra.Awaiting the comments from you as well as from other friends from the group.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>Revised Dating of Ramayana Periodskbhattacharjya@ gmail.comThursday, October 8, 2009, 4:57 PM--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>RE: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fw: Re: Dating of Ramayana Periodancient_indian_ astrologyCc: Jyotishgroup, vedic astrology, vedic_research_ institute, WAVES-Vedic, USBrahmins@gro ups.com, indiaarchaeologyThursday, October 8, 2009, 4:55 PMDear Goelji,Kindly have a look at the following analysis.1)Dr. Vartak manually calculated the approximate year of Lord Rama's birth from precessional data. He has given all these details in his book on the date of Ramayana. One must give credit to him for that. For those interested in Ancient Indian History this alone is sufficient as this date is corroborated by the Surya-vamsha lineage given in the Puranas. 2) Dr. Vartak also mentioned about a Buddhist text which gives the time-gap between the year of Lord Rama's going to Sri Lanka and the Parinirvana of Lord Buddha. Dr. Vartak could not relate that date as he was not aware that Lord Buddha passed away in 1807 BCE. At that time of writing his book he was aware of the Max Mullerian date in the 5th century BCE only. The year 1807 BCE as the date of parinirvana of Lord Buddha was worked out by Late Kota Venkatachalam from the Puranic data and the work of Prof. Narahari Achar using Astrological data and my own work from study of the Dotted Record confirm the date of Kota Venkatachalam. Now it is seen that the precessional data and the information from the Buudhist text quoted by Dr. Vartak tallies.Now coming to the exact day from the astrlogical data I agree that it is a contentious issue but by applying our mind we can sort out the issue from the following analysis :3)Lord Rama was born at noon. So the Sun was in the tenth house or near the tenth house. If his ascendent is Cancer then the Sun has to be either in the Arties or closest to the Aries.4)Adhyatma Ramayana, a later day text from Purana, says that the Sun was reaching Aries. It could mean that the Sun was closest to Aries.5)Now if the Sun is closest to aries and the Moon is in Cancer then it means that Lord Rama was born in a Shuklapaksha Navam and not Krishnapaksha Navami.6)The Sun actually appears to be around 27 degree in Pisces. This surprisingly means that Budha (Mercury) is in the nakshatra Revati, which it rules. Astrologically speaking had the Sun been at the Aries (ie. in Lord Rama's tenth sign) Kaikeyi would not have succeeded in taking away the kingship from Lord Rama. It is another matter that he was born to take away Ravana from the earth.7)Five planets were in sva and / or uccha. The Moon and Jupiter in cancer means the Moon was in Sva-hiouse and Juoiter in the house of exaltation. It is quite possible that the Mars, Venus and Saturn could have been in sva- houes / exalted. Now the Saturn's position can be found out if one knows the approximate date as in the geo-centric model it takes the longest time among the Grahas to move round the earth. From the precessional data Dr. vartak found out the approximate year of Lord Rama's birth and that fixes the position of saturn in Libra. So some unceratinty remains regarding the fast moving planets Mars and Venus.Dr. Vartak did all calculations manually and gives full deatils of those in his book. His is an open book and he found the year of Lord Rama's birth closest to the date he arrived from the precessional data. But he too goofed up regarding the position of the Sun. He took the Sun at Aries. The Buddist text he quotes helps us find the date as 7319 BCE whereas Dr. Vartak arrived at the date of 7323 BCE. This does not matter, as for the purpose of fixing the day for festivals we have all the required data and the historian also cannot complain as they get a figure, which fits in with all the puranic data The Puranic yuga calculation also tallies with this date in the Treta yuga. To my mind Dr. Vartak's date of Lord Rama is the best astronomical date found so far. The date of Bharata and of Lakhna and Shatrughna is very clear. Bharat was born in the Pushya makshatra and Mina Lagna, ie. late in the night following Lord Rama's birth. It is interesting to see that he got the kingship as the Sun was in his Lagna. Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born in the Ashlesh nakshatra (ie. the Moon was in the Ashlesha Nakshatra) and at Sunrise. This is for astrological discussions only and the historians will not be interested in these finer details. Finally I would ike to submit that though I love astrology and picking up the pebbles on the sea shore I look at the chrological matters more through the historical ( that includes puranic records too) and astronomical data than through astrology alone. Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Thu, 10/8/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>RE: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fw: Re: Dating of Ramayana Periodancient_indian_ astrology, , vedic astrology, vedic_research_ institute, indiaarchaeologyThursday, October 8, 2009, 5:45 AM Dear BHATTACHARJYA JI,DR. Vartak is a well known authority and this mail is notquestion his findings. In any case this is an unending debatewhich never dies.I have some observations:Slola 1-18-8and 9 may mean as under:After completion of yajna and lapse of 6 seasons,Rama was bornin 12th month of Chaitra , on ninth tithi(NAVAMIKE) ,in Punarvasu Nakshatra, five planets were in their own and exalted signs(SAVOCHCHASANSTHESH U)-THIS MAY MEAN THAT FIVE PLANETS WERE IN THEIR OWN EXALTED SIGNS OR THESE PLANETS WERE IN THEIR OWN AND/OR EXALTED SIGNS-cancer LAGNA WITH JUPITER AND Moon (VAKPATAVIDUNA SAH)THE following OBSERVATION can be made:1. There may be some reasons to believe , but sloka does not say that Rama was born in dark or bright half of the lunar month. 2. If it is assumed that SIDREAL lunar month of chaitra was refered in the text. In that case Sun can be either inPisces or Aries.3. What was the method of counting of tithis in those days?Probably mathematical tithi were not in use in those days.Even , diva and ratri karna.4. What type of calander was in use in those days.Panch yugi calender was in common use having 62 months of 30 solar days each. 5 If it is assumed that Five planets were in their exalted signs then Sun ,Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus were in exaltation signs.But if sloka means that five planets were in own (sva) and Uchcha signs , Then their is no requirememt that Sun should also be in Aries, In that case Moon , Jupiter,Saturn, Mars and Venus will meet the requirement of of sloka regarding five planets. 6. In any case if Sun is in Aries , it is dificult to explain that moon was in last pada of Punarvasu nakshatra in cancer.As regard following sloka: puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 "The meaning are clear - After Sun rise (abhyudite ravau), Bharat was born inpisces Lagna and Pusya Nakchatra.And two sons of Sumitra were bornin aslesha nakshatra and cancer sign."It may be mentioned that 'Vakpati means Jupiter as well as Pusya Nakshatra.This mail is just to seek clarifications on the points which are not clear to me thus far.It would be intresting to know the parametres which Dr. Vartak fed in the computer to arrive a particular date. At least that date can be relied upon upto the extent and on the basis of these parameteres.Best regards,G. K. Goel Get a 360o view of the world, in perspectives only MSN India can offer. Try it! Get a 360o view of the world, in perspectives only MSN India can offer. Try it! From the happening headlines to the juiciest gossip, get your daily update on MSN India Drag n' drop Dear Sunil ji,Frankly speaking , rightly or wrongly , I some how gather the impressionthat preparation of nativities were become popular after the era of Mahabharata.The savant then prepared the nativities based on the information available with them. Naturally 4000 years back they must be having betteraccess TO CLASSICS as well astronomical and astrological practices prevalent in those days:Now we try to understand the verse;puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 I will comment on the first line:puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |As the name of BHARTA IS APPEARING FIRST , IT IS CLEAR THAT HE WASBORN EARLIER IN PUSHYA NAKSHATRA AND PISCES Lagna,His disposition was cheerfulAND PLEASENT.saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre Sumitra gave birth to twins in aslesa nakshatra and Cancer Lagna(KULIRE) abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 THESE TWO WORDS ARE QUALIYYING THE BIRTH OF ALL THE THREE BROTHERS. THESE TWO WORDS INDICATE THAT ALL THE THREE WERE BORN AFTER sUN RISE.THIS MEANS THAT BHART WAS BORN IN PISCES LAGNA WITH SUN AND BOTH THE TWINS WERE BORH IN CANCER LAGNA AT ABOUT NOON WITH SUN IN PISCES.MY INFRENCE IS THAT ALL THE FOUR BROTHERES WERE BORN WHEN SUNWAS IN PISCES , MOON AND JUPITER IN CANCER. JUPITER WAS IN PUSYA NAKSHATRAAS EARLIER VERSE SAYS 'VAKPATI ' WHICH HAS DUAL MEANING 'JUPITER' AND ALSO 'PUSYA'NAKSHATRA.THE PERSONS WHICH IS BORN WITH SUN JUST AFTER THE RISING DEGREEARE VERY FAMOUS AND LUCKY. THEIR ALL THE SPECIAL LAGNAL LIKE BHAVA,HORA,GHATI ETC 12 LAGNA FALL IN ASCENDING SIGN. BHART AL WILL FALL IN 9TH HOUSEAND HIS ALL LAGNAS WILL BE ASPECTED BY EXALTED JUPITER. HIS A10 FALLS IN 12TH HOUSE ANS AL AND A6 FALLS IN 9TH HOUSE . HE HAD RENOUNCE THE KINGDOM FOR SOME CAUSE (KARKA OF YONGER BROTHERS , EXALTED MARS IS PLACED IN11TH HOUSE REPRESENTING ELDER BROTHER)REGARDS, G. K. Goel CC: Jyotishgroup ; vedic astrology ; Vedic_research_institute From: sunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:56:22 -0700RE: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Dear Goelji,This is further to the earlier mail on the subject. It was regarding the interpretation of the verse in the context of the birth of the twins of Sumitra. The relevant verse is :puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 You have interpreted it as : "Bharat was born in Pisces Lagna and Pusyva Nakshata, and twins of Sumitra were born in Cancer Lagna ans Aslesha Nakshatra - All the three births Took place after Sun rise , This means Bharta was born Pisces Lagna with Sun." In the last mail I said as follows: It could be that Bharata was born earlier and Lakshmana was born later in the same Lagna and that is why the Lagna of Lakshmana and Shatrughna was not mentioned separately. By the time Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born the Sun was already at the horizon ie. the Sunrise occurred. Within the same Lagna period the Moon shifted from the Pushya to the Ashlesha Nakshatra.It appears to me that Bharata was born on the previous day and the twins were born on the following day as it would have taken one day for the Moon to to go from the Pushya to the Ashlesha Nakshatra. If we go by your interpretation the twins were born slightly more than three months after the birth of Bharata as the Sun would have required that much time (ie. slightly more than three months) to go from the end of the Mina Rashi to the Karkata Rashi. So there may be some ambiguity in the birthday of the twins but not in that of Lord Rama andd Bharata.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Sun, 10/11/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya > wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya >RE: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Cc: Jyotishgroup , vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 3:12 PMDear Goelji,I think it is then best to agree to disagree. Nakshatras are linked to the Moon and not to the Sun. The Sun is always lined to the Rashis. The verse do not mention that the twins of Sumitra were born in Karkata Lagna.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Sun, 10/11/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>RE: Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 6:04 AM As far as I could understand from the sloka given inValmiki Ramayna: "Bharat was born in Pisces Lagna and Pusyva Nakshata, and twins of Sumitra were born in Cancer Lagna ans Aslesha Nakshatra - All the three births Took place after Sun rise , This means Bharta was born Pisces Lagna with Sun. This also explains the birth of Lord Rama on Navami Thithi. Now truth is only knowm to God.Regards,G. K. Goel ancient_indian_ astrologysunil_bhattacharjya @Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:44:34 -0700[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Revised Dating of Ramayana Period Dear Goelji,Further to the earlier mail I looked at the possible Lagna of Lakshmana and Shatrughna. In Ramayana their Lagna is not mentioned separately. Though we do not know the exact Sun-rise time in Ayodhya on the date of their birth I feel that the Lagna could be Mina, ie. the same as that of Bharata. In Ayodhya Lord Rama was born at mid-day and the Lagna was Karkata (Cancer). If we assume the Krakata Lagna period was from 12 noon to 2 pm then the Mina (Pisces) Lagna was from 4 am to 6 am. It could be that Bharata was born earlier and Lakshmana was born later in the same Lagna and that is why the Lagna of Lakshmana and Shatrughna was not mentioned separately. By the time Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born the Sun was already at the horizon ie. the Sunrise occurred. Within the same Lagna period the Moon shifted from the Pushya to the Ashlesha Nakshatra.Awaiting the comments from you as well as from other friends from the group.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>Revised Dating of Ramayana Periodskbhattacharjya@ gmail.comThursday, October 8, 2009, 4:57 PM--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>RE: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fw: Re: Dating of Ramayana Periodancient_indian_ astrologyCc: Jyotishgroup, vedic astrology, vedic_research_ institute, WAVES-Vedic, USBrahmins@gro ups.com, indiaarchaeologyThursday, October 8, 2009, 4:55 PMDear Goelji,Kindly have a look at the following analysis.1)Dr. Vartak manually calculated the approximate year of Lord Rama's birth from precessional data. He has given all these details in his book on the date of Ramayana. One must give credit to him for that. For those interested in Ancient Indian History this alone is sufficient as this date is corroborated by the Surya-vamsha lineage given in the Puranas. 2) Dr. Vartak also mentioned about a Buddhist text which gives the time-gap between the year of Lord Rama's going to Sri Lanka and the Parinirvana of Lord Buddha. Dr. Vartak could not relate that date as he was not aware that Lord Buddha passed away in 1807 BCE. At that time of writing his book he was aware of the Max Mullerian date in the 5th century BCE only. The year 1807 BCE as the date of parinirvana of Lord Buddha was worked out by Late Kota Venkatachalam from the Puranic data and the work of Prof. Narahari Achar using Astrological data and my own work from study of the Dotted Record confirm the date of Kota Venkatachalam. Now it is seen that the precessional data and the information from the Buudhist text quoted by Dr. Vartak tallies.Now coming to the exact day from the astrlogical data I agree that it is a contentious issue but by applying our mind we can sort out the issue from the following analysis :3)Lord Rama was born at noon. So the Sun was in the tenth house or near the tenth house. If his ascendent is Cancer then the Sun has to be either in the Arties or closest to the Aries.4)Adhyatma Ramayana, a later day text from Purana, says that the Sun was reaching Aries. It could mean that the Sun was closest to Aries.5)Now if the Sun is closest to aries and the Moon is in Cancer then it means that Lord Rama was born in a Shuklapaksha Navam and not Krishnapaksha Navami.6)The Sun actually appears to be around 27 degree in Pisces. This surprisingly means that Budha (Mercury) is in the nakshatra Revati, which it rules. Astrologically speaking had the Sun been at the Aries (ie. in Lord Rama's tenth sign) Kaikeyi would not have succeeded in taking away the kingship from Lord Rama. It is another matter that he was born to take away Ravana from the earth.7)Five planets were in sva and / or uccha. The Moon and Jupiter in cancer means the Moon was in Sva-hiouse and Juoiter in the house of exaltation. It is quite possible that the Mars, Venus and Saturn could have been in sva- houes / exalted. Now the Saturn's position can be found out if one knows the approximate date as in the geo-centric model it takes the longest time among the Grahas to move round the earth. From the precessional data Dr. vartak found out the approximate year of Lord Rama's birth and that fixes the position of saturn in Libra. So some unceratinty remains regarding the fast moving planets Mars and Venus.Dr. Vartak did all calculations manually and gives full deatils of those in his book. His is an open book and he found the year of Lord Rama's birth closest to the date he arrived from the precessional data. But he too goofed up regarding the position of the Sun. He took the Sun at Aries. The Buddist text he quotes helps us find the date as 7319 BCE whereas Dr. Vartak arrived at the date of 7323 BCE. This does not matter, as for the purpose of fixing the day for festivals we have all the required data and the historian also cannot complain as they get a figure, which fits in with all the puranic data The Puranic yuga calculation also tallies with this date in the Treta yuga. To my mind Dr. Vartak's date of Lord Rama is the best astronomical date found so far. The date of Bharata and of Lakhna and Shatrughna is very clear. Bharat was born in the Pushya makshatra and Mina Lagna, ie. late in the night following Lord Rama's birth. It is interesting to see that he got the kingship as the Sun was in his Lagna. Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born in the Ashlesh nakshatra (ie. the Moon was in the Ashlesha Nakshatra) and at Sunrise. This is for astrological discussions only and the historians will not be interested in these finer details. Finally I would ike to submit that though I love astrology and picking up the pebbles on the sea shore I look at the chrological matters more through the historical ( that includes puranic records too) and astronomical data than through astrology alone. Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Thu, 10/8/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>RE: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fw: Re: Dating of Ramayana Periodancient_indian_ astrology, , vedic astrology, vedic_research_ institute, indiaarchaeologyThursday, October 8, 2009, 5:45 AM Dear BHATTACHARJYA JI,DR. Vartak is a well known authority and this mail is notquestion his findings. In any case this is an unending debatewhich never dies.I have some observations:Slola 1-18-8and 9 may mean as under:After completion of yajna and lapse of 6 seasons,Rama was bornin 12th month of Chaitra , on ninth tithi(NAVAMIKE) ,in Punarvasu Nakshatra, five planets were in their own and exalted signs(SAVOCHCHASANSTHESH U)-THIS MAY MEAN THAT FIVE PLANETS WERE IN THEIR OWN EXALTED SIGNS OR THESE PLANETS WERE IN THEIR OWN AND/OR EXALTED SIGNS-cancer LAGNA WITH JUPITER AND Moon (VAKPATAVIDUNA SAH)THE following OBSERVATION can be made:1. There may be some reasons to believe , but sloka does not say that Rama was born in dark or bright half of the lunar month. 2. If it is assumed that SIDREAL lunar month of chaitra was refered in the text. In that case Sun can be either inPisces or Aries.3. What was the method of counting of tithis in those days?Probably mathematical tithi were not in use in those days.Even , diva and ratri karna.4. What type of calander was in use in those days.Panch yugi calender was in common use having 62 months of 30 solar days each. 5 If it is assumed that Five planets were in their exalted signs then Sun ,Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus were in exaltation signs.But if sloka means that five planets were in own (sva) and Uchcha signs , Then their is no requirememt that Sun should also be in Aries, In that case Moon , Jupiter,Saturn, Mars and Venus will meet the requirement of of sloka regarding five planets. 6. In any case if Sun is in Aries , it is dificult to explain that moon was in last pada of Punarvasu nakshatra in cancer.As regard following sloka: puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15 "The meaning are clear - After Sun rise (abhyudite ravau), Bharat was born inpisces Lagna and Pusya Nakchatra.And two sons of Sumitra were bornin aslesha nakshatra and cancer sign."It may be mentioned that 'Vakpati means Jupiter as well as Pusya Nakshatra.This mail is just to seek clarifications on the points which are not clear to me thus far.It would be intresting to know the parametres which Dr. Vartak fed in the computer to arrive a particular date. At least that date can be relied upon upto the extent and on the basis of these parameteres.Best regards,G. K. Goel Get a 360o view of the world, in perspectives only MSN India can offer. Try it! Get a 360o view of the world, in perspectives only MSN India can offer. Try it! 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Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 All new Mail - Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. Dear Narasimha, Thanks for bringing this to our attention- my experience confirm importance of these data. As you said, even stationary planet in transit moving over natal degree back and forth /three times/ gives prominence to the that planet, axis. I earned my son's respect for my 'astro adventure' when I predicted when his love would come, based on Venus transit over nt.Descendent/and Ju, back and fourth /three times/. Love, Anna --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr108 wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr108[sjcBoston] Research: Stationary Planets in TransitJyotishWritings , , vedic astrology , sjcBoston Received: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 8:08 PM Namaste, Planets switching from direct motion to retrogression or from retrogression to direct motion become nearly stationary over a period of time during the transition. Such planets seem to become very powerful and seem to trigger events related to the natal planetary positions touched by them by conjunction or aspect. Stationary transits of Jupiter and Saturn seem to be particularly important. We will study the impact of such transits in this article. I would like to acknowledge that the importance of stationary planets in bringing about important results was mentioned to me once by Dr Manish Pandit, who is a yogi, astrologer and author. I took that basic idea and developed into simple principles that I tested on some examples. * * * Jupiter and Saturn are slow moving planets and important planets. When a planet is stationary in transit, i.e. moving with a much smaller speed than usual, the planet is akin to a person who is calm and still. Just as a person who is calm and still can focus better and be more productive, a stationary planet can focus its energies better and give some important results. The natal positions touched by such a planet by conjunction or aspect are activated by the stationary transit. Conjunction and aspects of a transiting planet on planets in natal rasi chart as well as natal divisional charts seem to be important. * * * To read the rest of the article and see 13 illustrative examples covering various types of events, please download the article at: http://VedicAstrolo ger.org/articles /stat_transit. pdf (if the email program insert spaces in the middle of the above link, please remove them and enter it in a browser) Please feel free to spread, use and refine the knowledge if you find it worthy of that. Please ignore it if it makes no sense to you. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,"Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Get it Now for Free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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