Guest guest Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Dear Partha, > Dear Narasimha > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the confusion. In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is clear. * * * Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that he can justify any result with any astrological factor. Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for several years now. I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. * * * > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to avoid confusions for novices like me. > > regards > Partha JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. * * * Namaste Srivastava, > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page 11 OF > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has mentioned. > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all savya > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any scholar.BTW > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for jyeshta > 4 th pada ? Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is enclosed. He wrote: " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates Parasara. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - > Namaste, > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > * * * > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to buy the CD and listen. > > * * * > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in savya and apasavya chakras! > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but it seems like he changed things later. > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by Parasara. > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > * * * > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see exactly what he taught. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------------------- > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > ------------------------- > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs <swami.rcs%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > With regards. > > > > RCS > > > > jhora <jhora%40> [jhora <jhora%40> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > jhora <jhora%40> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40> ; vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> ; <%40> > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was still wrong. > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > * * * > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with Parasara's teachings. > > > > * * * > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles itself. > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various dasas. > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note the setting mentioned above. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote: > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your copy from www.vedicsoftware.com > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I used in London > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 We can only add to that Neelam, welcome out of the tunnel Narasimha! Marg - " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 Thursday, March 04, 2010 6:52 AM Re: Too many options in JHora > Dear Manoj ji, > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > Regards > Neelam > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > >> >> >> Dear Narasimha ji, >> >> As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned >> (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to >> have >> any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did >> not >> even consult him astrologically then. >> >> regards, >> >> Manoj >> >> ________________________________ >> Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr <pvr%40charter.net>> >> vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>; >> <%40>; >> JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40>; >> jhora <jhora%40> >> Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM >> Too many options in JHora >> >> >> >> Dear Partha, >> >> > Dear Narasimha >> > >> > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, >> > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like >> > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) >> > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. >> >> In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime >> we >> met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to >> figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not >> sure. >> However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara >> regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the >> confusion. >> >> In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets >> from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack >> the >> KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the >> basic >> KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him >> and >> what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. >> The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he >> hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara >> is >> clear. >> >> * * * >> >> Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him >> closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from >> the >> community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara >> secrets, >> I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. >> If >> a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it >> would've >> been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst >> researcher >> I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many >> things >> and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious >> conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. >> Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic >> that >> he can justify any result with any astrological factor. >> >> Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for >> research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes >> explicitly >> and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious >> parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji >> revolutionized >> Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for >> several years now. >> >> I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I >> could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not >> say >> it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want >> to >> use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am >> today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my >> heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. >> >> * * * >> >> > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to >> avoid confusions for novices like me. >> > >> > regards >> > Partha >> >> JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We >> are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and >> even >> *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably >> intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference >> between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is >> slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. >> >> Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we >> need >> is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and >> impassioned >> search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My >> personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade >> and >> there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. >> >> The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in >> English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. >> Rao >> did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus >> to >> divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took >> the >> focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and >> brought >> several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant >> grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. >> >> The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we >> have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. >> However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual >> plant >> is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the >> knowledge >> of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. >> >> * * * >> >> Namaste Srivastava, >> >> > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. >> > Page >> 11 OF >> > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has >> mentioned. >> > >> > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all >> savya >> > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any >> scholar.BTW >> > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for >> jyeshta >> > 4 th pada ? >> >> Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is >> enclosed. He wrote: >> >> " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. >> <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " >> >> For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught >> by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else >> ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no >> typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates >> Parasara. >> >> Best regards, >> Narasimha >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, >> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: >> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org >> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org >> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom >> Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> >> > Namaste, >> > >> > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with >> free SW. >> > >> > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are >> WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... >> for >> Jyeshtha 4th pada. >> > >> > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara >> > left >> ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have >> enough >> confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different >> from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He >> did >> not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora >> if >> he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. >> > >> > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing >> > to >> buy the CD and listen. >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an >> old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my >> house >> in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada >> unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. >> > >> > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in >> dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord >> Shiva, >> who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in >> savya and apasavya chakras! >> > >> > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, >> Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, >> Vi, >> Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) >> not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to >> NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to >> Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, >> Ge, >> [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . >> This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces >> mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. >> > >> > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva >> > and >> Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit >> verses) >> was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as >> people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next >> cycle, >> but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas >> from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one >> level >> down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet >> elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa >> pairs >> that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure >> behind >> the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. >> > >> > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed >> that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). >> He >> asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC >> conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the >> apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to >> wait. >> I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, >> but >> it seems like he changed things later. >> > >> > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by >> Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that >> they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or >> dasa-antardasa >> pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given >> by >> Parasara. >> > >> > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa >> sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. >> You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! >> > >> > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it >> against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to >> invest their time on those wrong teachings. >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to >> JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and >> has >> no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to >> see >> exactly what he taught. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Narasimha >> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, >> > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: >> > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org >> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org >> >> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom >> > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings >> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> > >> > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. >> com> > wrote: >> > > Dear Narsimha ji, >> > > >> > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. >> > > >> > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . >> > > >> > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per >> > > these >> teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. >> > > >> > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by >> > > Guruji. >> In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have >> > > >> > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. >> > > >> > > With regards. >> > > >> > > RCS >> > > >> > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. >> com> [jhora <jhora% >> <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao >> > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM >> > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. >> com> ; JyotishWritings >> <JyotishWritings%40grou >> ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% >> 40. com> ; >> <%40. com> >> > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora >> > > >> > > Namaste friends, >> > > >> > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a >> previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was >> still wrong. >> > > >> > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's >> complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If >> you >> select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations >> given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. >> > > >> > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, >> > > Cn, >> Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what >> Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). >> > > >> > > * * * >> > > >> > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... >> > > >> > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be >> " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with >> Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. >> > > >> > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at >> the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our >> combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with >> Parasara's teachings. >> > > >> > > * * * >> > > >> > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, >> please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th >> pada >> is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the >> dasa >> cycles taught by Parasara. >> > > >> > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora >> > > match >> the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of >> course the Raghavacharya method. >> > > >> > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various >> methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how >> dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method >> is >> the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa >> cycles >> itself. >> > > >> > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine >> > > navamsas >> starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is >> chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various >> nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various >> dasas. >> > > >> > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed >> sequences listed by Parasara. >> > > >> > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please >> > > note >> the setting mentioned above. >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > Narasimha >> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, >> > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: >> > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org >> > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org >> >> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom >> > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings >> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> > > >> > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% >> > > > <sohamsa%25>40. com> < >> sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > om gurave namah >> > > > > >> > > > > Dear Jyotishi >> > > > > >> > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found >> > > > > to >> my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation >> given >> in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. >> > > > > >> > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't >> ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have >> checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your >> copy from www.vedicsoftware. com >> > > > > >> > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use >> full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get >> Cn-Vi.... >> > > > > >> > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides >> > > > > I >> used in London >> > > > > >> > > > > Best wishes >> > > > > >> > > > > Sanjay Rath >> > > > > >> > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Narasimha PVR Rao rightly says : <<< " For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates Parasara. " >>> The order mentioned by PVR here is correct and if anyone gives a different order for Jyeshtha 4th pada then we must reject such anti-Parashara innovations. The internet edition of BPHS has slight difference in wording with the Chowkhamba edition, but both have exactly same meaning in this context : " from Dhanu to Mesha in reverse order " (ie, Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar) for fourth pada of Mrigshira & c which includes Jyeshthaa. Second pada of Ashwini is correctly mentioned by PVR : " dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn " . BPHS is not explicit here. Internet edition based on spurious manuscript says : " Mrig-yugme deha-jeevau dviteeya-charanau smrtau / Krmaat mithuna-paryantam raasheepaashcha dashaadhipaah " (Dashaadhyaaya 46,61) Chowkhamba Edition says : Deha-jeevau nakra-yugme dviteeye-anghraavudeeritau / Nakratau mithunaantam tu raashipaashcha dashaadhipaah " (Dashaabhedaadhyaaya 47,59) These lines do not clarify the exact order of raashis. But when we tabulate all data about KCD provided in BPHS, then it is easy to see that the order given by PVR is correct : 10,11,12, 8,7,6,4,5,3 (numbers indicate raashis, beginning with Mesha = 1) which is reverse of third pada of Mrigshiraa-series explicitly mentioned in BPHS : 3,5,4,6,7,8, 12,11,10 I find PVR to be correct. *** *** *** For a fuller proof, here is the summary of KCD scheme : (numbers indicate nakshatras, Ashwini =1) Savya Apsavya 1,2,3 4,5,6 7,8,9 10,11,12 13,14,15 16,17,18 19,20,21 22,23,24 25,26,27 In Savya series, let the middle nakshatra in each triplet be classed in set B and the rest two in class A, and in Apsavya series let the first nakshatra be classed in C and the rest in D. Eg, Class B includes 2,8,14,20,26th nakshatras. Each nakshatra has four padas or navaamshas. Each pada of above four classes A,B,C,D will have unique series of nine raashis (and their lords) for KCD. Thus, there will be 16 variations (numbers stand for raashis, Mesha=1): PADA-i A 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 (left to right) B 8,7,6,4,5,3,2,1,12 (right to left, exception :4,5) C 9,10,11,12,1,2,3,5,4 (left to right, exception :4,5) D 12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4 (right to left) PADA-ii A 10,11,12, * 8,7,6,4,5,3 (towards star,exception :4,5) B 11,10,9, * 1,2,3,4,5,6 (away from star) C 6,7,8, * 12,11,10,9,8,7 (towards star) D 3,2,1, * 9,10,11,12,1,2 (away from star) PADA-iii A 2,1,12,11,10,9, * 1,2,3 (away from star) B 7,8,9,10,11,12, * 8,7,6 (towards star) C 6,5,4,3,2,1, * 9,10,11 (away from star) D 3,5,4,6,7,8, * 12,11,10 (towards star,exception :4,5) PADA-iv A 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 (left to right) B 4,5,3,2,1,12,11,10,9 (right to left) C 12,1,2,3,5,4,6,7,8 (left to right) D 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 (right to left) All these sequences have been explicitly described in BPHS, excepting Pada-ii,A = 10,11,12, * 8,7,6,4,5,3 which has been reconstructed from analogy with Pada-iii,D = 3,5,4,6,7,8, * 12,11,10 It is easy to see that Pada-ii,A is a mirror image of Pada-iii,D. So are the mirroring pairs : Pada-ii,A : Pada-iii,D Pada-ii,B : Pada-iii,C Pada-ii,C : Pada-iii,B Pada-ii,D : Pada-iii,A Pada-i,A : Pada-iv,D Pada-i,B : Pada-iv,C Pada-i,C : Pada-iv,B Pada-i,D : Pada-iv,A So symmetrical is this mirror property that it is not difficult to reconstruct the missing detail of Ashvini-ii (second pada), ie , Pada-ii,A which can be reconstructed with analogy from mirror-symmetry with Pada-iii,D. It is interesting to note that the raashis of Sun and Moon are reversed in six out of sixteen sequences : Pada-i,B : Pada-iv,C Pada-i,C : Pada-iv,B Pada-ii,A : Pada-iii,D Is Pada-ii,B : Pada-iii,C with normal sequence of 4,5 raashis instead of reversal of order not a break of beautiful symmetry of KCD design ? The original verses, however, do not allow perfect symmetry at this sole point. -Vinay Jha ========================== === vedic astrology , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > PVR must be thanked for his inoffensive boldness and regard for truth. > > The coming decade will be revolutionary indeed, and it will demolish many modern myths. > > -VJ > ==================== ============== > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote: > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the confusion. > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is clear. > > > > * * * > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for several years now. > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > * * * > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > regards > > > Partha > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > * * * > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page 11 OF > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has mentioned. > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all savya > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any scholar.BTW > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for jyeshta > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is enclosed. He wrote: > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates Parasara. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > - > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by Parasara. > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see exactly what he taught. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs@ <swami.rcs%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora%40> [jhora <jhora%40> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > jhora <jhora%40> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40> ; vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> ; <%40> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was still wrong. > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles itself. > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various dasas. > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------------------- > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your copy from www.vedicsoftware.com > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Namaste Manoj ji, > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. Namaste Neelam ji, > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > Regards > Neelam > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > ________________________________ > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr <pvr%40charter.net>> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>; > > <%40>; > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40>; > > jhora <jhora%40> > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > confusion. > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > clear. > > > > * * * > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > several years now. > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > * * * > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > regards > > > Partha > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > * * * > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > 11 OF > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > mentioned. > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > savya > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > scholar.BTW > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > jyeshta > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > Parasara. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > free SW. > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > Parasara. > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > com> > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40grou > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > 40. com> ; <%40. com> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > itself. > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > dasas. > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Yes Neelam ji for sure, i agree with you fully and wish Narasimha ji all success in his research..... Regards, gopi. , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > Regards > Neelam > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99 wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > ________________________________ > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr <pvr%40charter.net>> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>; > > <%40>; > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40>; > > jhora <jhora%40> > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > confusion. > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > clear. > > > > * * * > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > several years now. > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > * * * > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > regards > > > Partha > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > * * * > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > 11 OF > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > mentioned. > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > savya > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > scholar.BTW > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > jyeshta > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > Parasara. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > free SW. > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, .... for > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > Parasara. > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > com> > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40grou > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > 40. com> ; <%40. com> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > itself. > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > dasas. > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Namaste Manoj ji, > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. Namaste Neelam ji, > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > Regards > Neelam > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > ________________________________ > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr <pvr%40charter.net>> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>; > > <%40>; > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40>; > > jhora <jhora%40> > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > confusion. > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > clear. > > > > * * * > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > several years now. > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > * * * > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > regards > > > Partha > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > * * * > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > 11 OF > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > mentioned. > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > savya > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > scholar.BTW > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > jyeshta > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > Parasara. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > free SW. > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > Parasara. > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > com> > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40grou > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > 40. com> ; <%40. com> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > itself. > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > dasas. > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Dear Narsimha ji, Namaste, Thanks for clearing some more air! No one knows what’s brewing till it comes out of the spout! This is applicable to astrology also. Hence his comment! //It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.// You have done a great selfless service to astro-community by making an advanced, professional software, and giving it away free of cost. You have shared your birth details openly on your website, especially for astrological examination. Now with the kind of sensation you’ve created ‘by rocking the applecart’, you are likely to become the subject of astrological discussion! :-) Sh. Rao may not be actually interested in your or for that matter any horoscope in particular. His only mission is to teach genuine application of astrology to his students for which he insists on verifying the correctness of the horoscope. It is the learners and researchers in his classes who bring in live examples and cases for discussions and we’re able to collect the pearls of his wisdom. Nonetheless, he really appreciates honesty, integrity and courage of convictions. I will convey your regards to him.:-) Warm Regards Neelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Hi Narasimha, I remember those days, and it was this very list (earlier incarnation managed by Ben Collins and Charles D. -- Jyotish List I believe it was called and Sri K.N. Rao, Sanjay Rath, your good self, Martin Gansten, Finn Wandahl (I still recall his favourite label, " Sophisticated Navamsha technique " ) participated, shared pretty freely. Shri K.N. Rao had just begun to master the computer and used to share with us his writings on Jyotishis of India and many other topics. I also recall pretty clearly his statement made several times that it is the younger generations of Jyotishis that will make a difference eventually in the field of Jyotish. He was very clear and unambiguous about that, at that time. Martin and you were really amongst the younger ones and pretty knowldgeable back then, serious and sincere! I felt at that moment that that was a blessing that K.N. Rao was bestowing upon both of you! I recall how back then he mentioned that you had figured out the correct calculation for KCD. Your approach was similar to what he had learned from certain South Indian sources! Just sharing, it may or may not mean anything to you or perhaps you may not even recall, around the time when you accepted your Guru. Best Regards and may MA bless you, always! Ranjan , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: >... > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Dear Narasimha ji, There is again nothing uncommon here. It is pure manipulation. You were perhaps not a member of Jyotish List run by Ben Collins where Sanjay and Shri K.N. Rao ji amongst other respected names, which Ranjan ji has mentioned in his mails used to participate. It was wonderful then, with astrology flowing, pure astrology and blessings through his writings. Shri K.N. Rao had then written about Parampara in the list. He had mentioned about Music Gharanas of India and broken astrological paramparas. If there could be any parampara in Astrology, it could only be of Dr. B.V. Raman, over 100 years now and Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan, over 28 years now. Sanjay and his father used to visit many astrologers in Delhi for consultations. So much for parampara. In one of his mails then, Shri K.N. Rao had also mentioned how Tithi pravesh method was a common method practiced in Ashrams across India. He could say this with authority since he has travelled and lived throughout the length and breadth of India excepting few States like Kashmir, Goa, Kerala and Karnataka where he has interacted with astrologers. He had also mentioned about one Shri Raja Ram Shastri, a north Indian astrologer, who was writing a book on Tithi Pravesh but could not finish it before his death. Shri K.N. Rao has used and written about this method long before Sanjay pounced upon it and propagated it as discovery. I am personally aware of many things which need not be made public un-necessarily because it creates a bad taste. Later me and his maternal uncle were working together. His maternal uncle was my boss. I had asked him, why do you not consult Sanjay, his smile said it all. Later we developed a good rapport and he used to invite me for astrology and had also met Shri K.N. Rao for consultations. Shri K.N. Rao has reached a stage when he will not be interested in chart of anybody. Personally I believe that now he spends more time on his Sadhana and guiding his students as his goal is to spread astrology in purist form and not to distort it. regards, Manoj ________________________________ Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr ; JyotishWritings ; vedic astrology Thu, March 4, 2010 11:43:20 PM Re: Too many options in JHora  Namaste Manoj ji, > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. Namaste Neelam ji, > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. Best regards, Narasimha ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > Regards > Neelam > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr <pvr%40charter. net>> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology% 40. com>; > > <% 40. com>; > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com>; > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > confusion. > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > clear. > > > > * * * > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > several years now. > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > * * * > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > regards > > > Partha > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > * * * > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > 11 OF > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > mentioned. > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > savya > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > scholar.BTW > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > jyeshta > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > Parasara. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > free SW. > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > Parasara. > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > com> > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40gr oups. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWrit ings%40grou > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > 40. com> ; <JyotishGrou p%40. com> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > itself. > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > dasas. > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> < > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 ----- Forwarded Message ---- Manoj Kumar <mouji99 Fri, March 5, 2010 11:17:05 AM Re: Re: Too many options in JHora Dear Narasimha ji, There is again nothing uncommon here. It is pure manipulation. You were perhaps not a member of Jyotish List run by Ben Collins where Sanjay and Shri K.N. Rao ji amongst other respected names, which Ranjan ji has mentioned in his mails used to participate. It was wonderful then, with astrology flowing, pure astrology and blessings through his writings. Shri K.N. Rao had then written about Parampara in the list. He had mentioned about Music Gharanas of India and broken astrological paramparas. If there could be any parampara in Astrology, it could only be of Dr. B.V. Raman, over 100 years now and Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan, over 28 years now. Sanjay and his father used to visit many astrologers in Delhi for consultations. So much for parampara. In one of his mails then, Shri K.N. Rao had also mentioned how Tithi pravesh method was a common method practiced in Ashrams across India. He could say this with authority since he has travelled and lived throughout the length and breadth of India excepting few States like Kashmir, Goa, Kerala and Karnataka where he has interacted with astrologers. He had also mentioned about one Shri Raja Ram Shastri, a north Indian astrologer, who was writing a book on Tithi Pravesh but could not finish it before his death. Shri K.N. Rao has used and written about this method long before Sanjay pounced upon it and propagated it as discovery. I am personally aware of many things which need not be made public un-necessarily because it creates a bad taste. Later me and his maternal uncle were working together. His maternal uncle was my boss. I had asked him, why do you not consult Sanjay, his smile said it all. Later we developed a good rapport and he used to invite me for astrology and had also met Shri K.N. Rao for consultations. Shri K.N. Rao has reached a stage when he will not be interested in chart of anybody. Personally I believe that now he spends more time on his Sadhana and guiding his students as his goal is to spread astrology in purist form and not to distort it. regards, Manoj ________________________________ Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr ; JyotishWritings ; vedic astrology Thu, March 4, 2010 11:43:20 PM Re: Too many options in JHora  Namaste Manoj ji, > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. Namaste Neelam ji, > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. Best regards, Narasimha ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > makes much sense, isn't it? > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > Regards > Neelam > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr <pvr%40charter. net>> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology% 40. com>; > > <% 40. com>; > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com>; > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > confusion. > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > clear. > > > > * * * > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > several years now. > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > * * * > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > regards > > > Partha > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > * * * > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > 11 OF > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > mentioned. > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > savya > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > scholar.BTW > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > jyeshta > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > Parasara. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > free SW. > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > Parasara. > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > com> > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40gr oups. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWrit ings%40grou > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > 40. com> ; <JyotishGrou p%40. com> > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > itself. > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > dasas. > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> < > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Namaste, Four points: (1) I gave my observations honestly. But, for all you know, my views may or may not be perfect. Other people who also have a lot of experience with him may, for all you know, disagree with me. (2) It will be very crude and unethical to use our limited knowledge of astrology to justify our views in matters like this. If history makes a judgment on this in future and/or creates a distance between us and these happenings, THEN it may be acceptable to analyze them astrologically. (3) Sanjay ji is a man with some good knowledge. If he is honest about what is from parampara and what are his ideas and enables intelligent youngsters to do unbiased research (instead of jumping to hasty conclusions, teaching that as parampara knowledge and making it into a cult), he may still make a positive difference. In the beginning, he had honesty and spirit of truth. He was quite honest with me about many things he was unsure of and asked me to investigate (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar months in TP). He changed. But he is basically a good man and wants the knowledge of rishis to triumph in the world, just as I do. I do not like to write anyone off in my book. Everyone has many choices in front of one at all times, whether one sees them or not. I do not control the choices others make and also I do not like to prejudge the choices they may make in future. (4) I haven't " dissociated " with Sanjay ji. How can one dissociate with someone who gave one some useful knowledge and who inspired one to do an important good karma (giving JHora to the world)? I have merely stated what I honestly believe to be the truth, for the benefit of other students and community. Simply a new event occurred in our " association " . Arjuna may have fired arrows at Drona or even killed him. But would he say " I dissociated with Drona " ? The association/relationship of a teacher-student is permanent. * * * JHora uses yyyy-mm-dd format to stay neutral to Indo-European (dd-mm-yyyy) and American (mm-dd-yyyy) styles and also to be logical (Y > M > D). I will consider adding an option in a future release. But this request is too late for the 7.4 release which is going to happen very soon. The beta version is under testing in the jhora and the official release is only days away. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - , Vinay Kumar <vinay69 wrote: > > Dear Narasimha, > > I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and > practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have > contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious > research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of > astrologers in the next decade. > > Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what > astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound > jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean > when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or > other factors in his horoscope. > > I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and > ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format? > I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the > option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in > your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I > have always been used to. > > Warm regards, > Vinay > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, > > Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar > > vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is > > not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who > > used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji > > did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and > > non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading > > of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. > > Please convey my regards to him. > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first > > communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring > > 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji > > maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you > > keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in > > his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I > > maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I > > gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly > > corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent > > research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while > > remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up > > astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam > > yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I > > vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any > > expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are > > shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to > > caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth > > without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of > > offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the > > applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also > > sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going > > against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing > > and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful > > and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I > > started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As > > far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years > > now. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > <%40>, > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, > > not > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > concerned > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to > > have > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did > > not > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > To: vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40><vedic-astrolo\ gy% > > 40>; > > > > <%40><% > > 40>; > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40><JyotishWritings% > > 40>; > > > > jhora <jhora%40> <jhora% > > 40> > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime > > we > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us > > to > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not > > sure. > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > > crack the > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the > > basic > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him > > and > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it > > now. > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > Parasara is > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from > > the > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > secrets, > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > irresponsibly. If > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it > > would've > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > researcher > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many > > things > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > serious > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > testing. > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic > > that > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > explicitly > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > revolutionized > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not > > say > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not > > want to > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I > > am > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in > > my > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as > > to > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. > > We > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and > > even > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > difference > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we > > need > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > impassioned > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > decade and > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology > > in > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. > > Rao > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus > > to > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took > > the > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > brought > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > plant > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > tree. > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual > > plant > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > knowledge > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. > > Page > > > > 11 OF > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for > > all > > > > savya > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > jyeshta > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail > > is > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > > taught > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something > > else > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is > > no > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings > > are > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... > > for > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara > > left > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have > > enough > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > different > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He > > did > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > > JHora if > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > willing to > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from > > an > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my > > house > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result > > in > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord > > Shiva, > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair > > in > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, > > Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be > > " Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is > > to > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, > > Le, Ge, > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, > > Aq " . > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva > > and > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit > > verses) > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle > > as > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next > > cycle, > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > antardasas > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one > > level > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and > > yet > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure > > behind > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > exclaimed > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > quickly). He > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to > > wait. > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > > paper, but > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so > > that > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given > > by > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > deduced. > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want > > to > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and > > has > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to > > see > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per > > these > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by > > Guruji. > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings < > > JyotishWritings%40grou <JyotishWritings%2540grou> > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > 40. com> ; < > > %40 <%2540>. com> > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If > > you > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, > > Cn, > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches > > what > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper > > at > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > methods, > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th > > pada > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the > > dasa > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora > > match > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except > > of > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > > various > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in > > how > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > > method is > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa > > cycles > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > > navamsas > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please > > note > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25><sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > > found to > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation > > given > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and > > don't > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get > > your > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we > > use > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > paper/slides I > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 To Mr Vinay69 : Sanjay Ji has svagrihi lords of lagna, dasham, ekaadash, and twelfth, which gave him much money and fame. Svagrihi Jupiter also has fast-friendly 52' aspect on 5th, and svagrihi Saturn has neutral 36' aspect on 5th, which enabled him to master a good deal of traditional knowledge. But according to Kundalee Software, he entered into Mercury Mahaa-dashaa after mid-1998 and Mercury is in 6th. This is one reason of his problems. Another reason is Sun and Venus in 5th : Sun is lord of 6th and Venus of 3rd and 8th , which make them malefics for 5th. Moreover, Venus is in bitter enemy's house in 5th. Third factor is lord of 5th Moon in 12th. D24 has excellent Saturn in moolatrikona, sitting in 11th house and aspecting 5th, but Mercury is lord of 3 and 6 and therefore malefic. Hence, when Mercury's mahaadashaa started on 23rd July 1998, his knowledge took a bad turn. -Vinay Jha ========================= ===== vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste, > > Four points: > > (1) I gave my observations honestly. But, for all you know, my views may or may not be perfect. Other people who also have a lot of experience with him may, for all you know, disagree with me. > > (2) It will be very crude and unethical to use our limited knowledge of astrology to justify our views in matters like this. If history makes a judgment on this in future and/or creates a distance between us and these happenings, THEN it may be acceptable to analyze them astrologically. > > (3) Sanjay ji is a man with some good knowledge. If he is honest about what is from parampara and what are his ideas and enables intelligent youngsters to do unbiased research (instead of jumping to hasty conclusions, teaching that as parampara knowledge and making it into a cult), he may still make a positive difference. In the beginning, he had honesty and spirit of truth. He was quite honest with me about many things he was unsure of and asked me to investigate (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar months in TP). He changed. But he is basically a good man and wants the knowledge of rishis to triumph in the world, just as I do. I do not like to write anyone off in my book. Everyone has many choices in front of one at all times, whether one sees them or not. I do not control the choices others make and also I do not like to prejudge the choices they may make in future. > > (4) I haven't " dissociated " with Sanjay ji. How can one dissociate with someone who gave one some useful knowledge and who inspired one to do an important good karma (giving JHora to the world)? I have merely stated what I honestly believe to be the truth, for the benefit of other students and community. Simply a new event occurred in our " association " . > > Arjuna may have fired arrows at Drona or even killed him. But would he say " I dissociated with Drona " ? The association/relationship of a teacher-student is permanent. > > * * * > > JHora uses yyyy-mm-dd format to stay neutral to Indo-European (dd-mm-yyyy) and American (mm-dd-yyyy) styles and also to be logical (Y > M > D). I will consider adding an option in a future release. But this request is too late for the 7.4 release which is going to happen very soon. The beta version is under testing in the jhora and the official release is only days away. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > - > > , Vinay Kumar <vinay69@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and > > practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have > > contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious > > research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of > > astrologers in the next decade. > > > > Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what > > astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound > > jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean > > when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or > > other factors in his horoscope. > > > > I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and > > ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format? > > I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the > > option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in > > your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I > > have always been used to. > > > > Warm regards, > > Vinay > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, > > > Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar > > > vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is > > > not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who > > > used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji > > > did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and > > > non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading > > > of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. > > > Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first > > > communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring > > > 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji > > > maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you > > > keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in > > > his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I > > > maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I > > > gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly > > > corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent > > > research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while > > > remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up > > > astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam > > > yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I > > > vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any > > > expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are > > > shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to > > > caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth > > > without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of > > > offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the > > > applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also > > > sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going > > > against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing > > > and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful > > > and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I > > > started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As > > > far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years > > > now. > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > <%40>, > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, > > > not > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > concerned > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to > > > have > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did > > > not > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > > To: vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40><vedic-astrolo\ gy% > > > 40>; > > > > > <%40><% > > > 40>; > > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40><JyotishWritings% > > > 40>; > > > > > jhora <jhora%40> <jhora% > > > 40> > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime > > > we > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us > > > to > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not > > > sure. > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > > > crack the > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the > > > basic > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him > > > and > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it > > > now. > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > > Parasara is > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from > > > the > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > > secrets, > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it > > > would've > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > researcher > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many > > > things > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > > serious > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > testing. > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic > > > that > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > > explicitly > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > revolutionized > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not > > > say > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not > > > want to > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I > > > am > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in > > > my > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as > > > to > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. > > > We > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and > > > even > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > difference > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we > > > need > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > impassioned > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > > decade and > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology > > > in > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. > > > Rao > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus > > > to > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took > > > the > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > > brought > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > > plant > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > > tree. > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual > > > plant > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > knowledge > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. > > > Page > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for > > > all > > > > > savya > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail > > > is > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > > > taught > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something > > > else > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is > > > no > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings > > > are > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, .... > > > for > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara > > > left > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have > > > enough > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > > different > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He > > > did > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > > > JHora if > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > > willing to > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from > > > an > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my > > > house > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result > > > in > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord > > > Shiva, > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair > > > in > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, > > > Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be > > > " Li, Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is > > > to > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, > > > Le, Ge, > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, > > > Aq " . > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva > > > and > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit > > > verses) > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle > > > as > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next > > > cycle, > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > > antardasas > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one > > > level > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and > > > yet > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > pairs > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure > > > behind > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > > exclaimed > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > > quickly). He > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to > > > wait. > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > > > paper, but > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so > > > that > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given > > > by > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > > deduced. > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want > > > to > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and > > > has > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to > > > see > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per > > > these > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by > > > Guruji. > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > 40. > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > 40. > > > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings < > > > JyotishWritings%40grou <JyotishWritings%2540grou> > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > > 40. com> ; < > > > %40 <%2540>. com> > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If > > > you > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, > > > Cn, > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches > > > what > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper > > > at > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > > methods, > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th > > > pada > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the > > > dasa > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora > > > match > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except > > > of > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > > > various > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in > > > how > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > > > method is > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa > > > cycles > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > > > navamsas > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please > > > note > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25><sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > > > found to > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation > > > given > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and > > > don't > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get > > > your > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we > > > use > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > > paper/slides I > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Namaste, Four points: (1) I gave my observations honestly. But, for all you know, my views may or may not be perfect. Other people who also have a lot of experience with him may, for all you know, disagree with me. (2) It will be very crude and unethical to use our limited knowledge of astrology to justify our views in matters like this. If history makes a judgment on this in future and/or creates a distance between us and these happenings, THEN it may be acceptable to analyze them astrologically. (3) Sanjay ji is a man with some good knowledge. If he is honest about what is from parampara and what are his ideas and enables intelligent youngsters to do unbiased research (instead of jumping to hasty conclusions, teaching that as parampara knowledge and making it into a cult), he may still make a positive difference. In the beginning, he had honesty and spirit of truth. He was quite honest with me about many things he was unsure of and asked me to investigate (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar months in TP). He changed. But he is basically a good man and wants the knowledge of rishis to triumph in the world, just as I do. I do not like to write anyone off in my book. Everyone has many choices in front of one at all times, whether one sees them or not. I do not control the choices others make and also I do not like to prejudge the choices they may make in future. (4) I haven't " dissociated " with Sanjay ji. How can one dissociate with someone who gave one some useful knowledge and who inspired one to do an important good karma (giving JHora to the world)? I have merely stated what I honestly believe to be the truth, for the benefit of other students and community. Simply a new event occurred in our " association " . Arjuna may have fired arrows at Drona or even killed him. But would he say " I dissociated with Drona " ? The association/relationship of a teacher-student is permanent. * * * JHora uses yyyy-mm-dd format to stay neutral to Indo-European (dd-mm-yyyy) and American (mm-dd-yyyy) styles and also to be logical (Y > M > D). I will consider adding an option in a future release. But this request is too late for the 7.4 release which is going to happen very soon. The beta version is under testing in the jhora and the official release is only days away. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - , Vinay Kumar <vinay69 wrote: > > Dear Narasimha, > > I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and > practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have > contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious > research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of > astrologers in the next decade. > > Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what > astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound > jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean > when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or > other factors in his horoscope. > > I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and > ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format? > I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the > option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in > your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I > have always been used to. > > Warm regards, > Vinay > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, > > Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar > > vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is > > not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who > > used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji > > did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and > > non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading > > of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. > > Please convey my regards to him. > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first > > communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring > > 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji > > maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you > > keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in > > his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I > > maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I > > gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly > > corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent > > research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while > > remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up > > astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam > > yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I > > vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any > > expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are > > shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to > > caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth > > without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of > > offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the > > applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also > > sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going > > against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing > > and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful > > and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I > > started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As > > far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years > > now. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > <%40>, > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, > > not > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > concerned > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to > > have > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did > > not > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > To: vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40><vedic-astrolo\ gy% > > 40>; > > > > <%40><% > > 40>; > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40><JyotishWritings% > > 40>; > > > > jhora <jhora%40> <jhora% > > 40> > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime > > we > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us > > to > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not > > sure. > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > > crack the > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the > > basic > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him > > and > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it > > now. > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > Parasara is > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from > > the > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > secrets, > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > irresponsibly. If > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it > > would've > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > researcher > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many > > things > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > serious > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > testing. > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic > > that > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > explicitly > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > revolutionized > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not > > say > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not > > want to > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I > > am > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in > > my > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as > > to > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. > > We > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and > > even > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > difference > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we > > need > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > impassioned > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > decade and > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology > > in > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. > > Rao > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus > > to > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took > > the > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > brought > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > plant > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > tree. > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual > > plant > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > knowledge > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. > > Page > > > > 11 OF > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for > > all > > > > savya > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > jyeshta > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail > > is > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > > taught > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something > > else > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is > > no > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings > > are > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... > > for > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara > > left > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have > > enough > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > different > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He > > did > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > > JHora if > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > willing to > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from > > an > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my > > house > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result > > in > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord > > Shiva, > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair > > in > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, > > Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be > > " Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is > > to > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, > > Le, Ge, > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, > > Aq " . > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva > > and > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit > > verses) > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle > > as > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next > > cycle, > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > antardasas > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one > > level > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and > > yet > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa > > pairs > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure > > behind > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > exclaimed > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > quickly). He > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to > > wait. > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > > paper, but > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so > > that > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given > > by > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > deduced. > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want > > to > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and > > has > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to > > see > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per > > these > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by > > Guruji. > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings < > > JyotishWritings%40grou <JyotishWritings%2540grou> > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > 40. com> ; < > > %40 <%2540>. com> > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If > > you > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, > > Cn, > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches > > what > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper > > at > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > methods, > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th > > pada > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the > > dasa > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora > > match > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except > > of > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > > various > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in > > how > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > > method is > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa > > cycles > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > > navamsas > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please > > note > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25><sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > > found to > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation > > given > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and > > don't > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get > > your > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we > > use > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > paper/slides I > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Dear Manoj ji, Narasimha was very much a member on Ben's list. RR_, , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > There is again nothing uncommon here. It is pure manipulation. You were perhaps not a member of Jyotish List run by Ben Collins where Sanjay and Shri K.N. Rao ji amongst other respected names, which Ranjan ji has mentioned in his mails used to participate. It was wonderful then, with astrology flowing, pure astrology and blessings through his writings. > > Shri K.N. Rao had then written about Parampara in the list. He had mentioned about Music Gharanas of India and broken astrological paramparas. If there could be any parampara in Astrology, it could only be of Dr. B.V. Raman, over 100 years now and Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan, over 28 years now. Sanjay and his father used to visit many astrologers in Delhi for consultations. So much for parampara. In one of his mails then, Shri K.N. Rao had also mentioned how Tithi pravesh method was a common method practiced in Ashrams across India. He could say this with authority since he has travelled and lived throughout the length and breadth of India excepting few States like Kashmir, Goa, Kerala and Karnataka where he has interacted with astrologers. He had also mentioned about one Shri Raja Ram Shastri, a north Indian astrologer, who was writing a book on Tithi Pravesh but could not finish it before his death. Shri K.N. Rao has used and written about this method long > before Sanjay pounced upon it and propagated it as discovery. > > I am personally aware of many things which need not be made public un-necessarily because it creates a bad taste. Later me and his maternal uncle were working together. His maternal uncle was my boss. I had asked him, why do you not consult Sanjay, his smile said it all. Later we developed a good rapport and he used to invite me for astrology and had also met Shri K.N. Rao for consultations. > > Shri K.N. Rao has reached a stage when he will not be interested in chart of anybody. Personally I believe that now he spends more time on his Sadhana and guiding his students as his goal is to spread astrology in purist form and not to distort it. > > regards, > > Manoj > > > > > ________________________________ > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr > ; JyotishWritings ; vedic astrology > Thu, March 4, 2010 11:43:20 PM > Re: Too many options in JHora > > Â > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued > independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@ > wrote: > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter. net>> > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology% 40. com>; > > > <% 40. com>; > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com>; > > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > confusion. > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > > clear. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > several years now. > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > Partha > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > > 11 OF > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > > savya > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > scholar.BTW > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > jyeshta > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > Parasara. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40gr oups. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWrit ings%40grou > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > 40. com> ; <JyotishGrou p%40. com> > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> < > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I am sorry Ranjan, may be it slipped out. But could not remember so ... regards, Manoj ________________________________ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Fri, March 5, 2010 5:42:23 PM Re: Too many options in JHora  Dear Manoj ji, Narasimha was very much a member on Ben's list. RR_, , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > There is again nothing uncommon here. It is pure manipulation. You were perhaps not a member of Jyotish List run by Ben Collins where Sanjay and Shri K.N. Rao ji amongst other respected names, which Ranjan ji has mentioned in his mails used to participate. It was wonderful then, with astrology flowing, pure astrology and blessings through his writings. > > Shri K.N. Rao had then written about Parampara in the list. He had mentioned about Music Gharanas of India and broken astrological paramparas. If there could be any parampara in Astrology, it could only be of Dr. B.V. Raman, over 100 years now and Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan, over 28 years now. Sanjay and his father used to visit many astrologers in Delhi for consultations. So much for parampara. In one of his mails then, Shri K.N. Rao had also mentioned how Tithi pravesh method was a common method practiced in Ashrams across India. He could say this with authority since he has travelled and lived throughout the length and breadth of India excepting few States like Kashmir, Goa, Kerala and Karnataka where he has interacted with astrologers. He had also mentioned about one Shri Raja Ram Shastri, a north Indian astrologer, who was writing a book on Tithi Pravesh but could not finish it before his death. Shri K.N. Rao has used and written about this method long > before Sanjay pounced upon it and propagated it as discovery. > > I am personally aware of many things which need not be made public un-necessarily because it creates a bad taste. Later me and his maternal uncle were working together. His maternal uncle was my boss. I had asked him, why do you not consult Sanjay, his smile said it all. Later we developed a good rapport and he used to invite me for astrology and had also met Shri K.N. Rao for consultations. > > Shri K.N. Rao has reached a stage when he will not be interested in chart of anybody. Personally I believe that now he spends more time on his Sadhana and guiding his students as his goal is to spread astrology in purist form and not to distort it. > > regards, > > Manoj > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr > ; JyotishWritings; vedic astrology > Thu, March 4, 2010 11:43:20 PM > Re: Too many options in JHora > >  > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued > independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@ > wrote: > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter. net>> > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology% 40. com>; > > > <% 40. com>; > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com>; > > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > confusion. > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > > clear. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > several years now. > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > Partha > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > > 11 OF > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > > savya > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > scholar.BTW > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > jyeshta > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > Parasara. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40gr oups. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWrit ings%40grou > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > 40. com> ; <JyotishGrou p%40. com> > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> < > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 No problem, Sir. Glad to be of service! RR_, , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > I am sorry Ranjan, may be it slipped out. But could not remember so ... > > regards, > > Manoj > > > > > ________________________________ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani > > Fri, March 5, 2010 5:42:23 PM > Re: Too many options in JHora > >  > Dear Manoj ji, > > Narasimha was very much a member on Ben's list. > > RR_, > > , Manoj Kumar <mouji99@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > There is again nothing uncommon here. It is pure manipulation. You were perhaps not a member of Jyotish List run by Ben Collins where Sanjay and Shri K.N. Rao ji amongst other respected names, which Ranjan ji has mentioned in his mails used to participate. It was wonderful then, with astrology flowing, pure astrology and blessings through his writings. > > > > Shri K.N. Rao had then written about Parampara in the list. He had mentioned about Music Gharanas of India and broken astrological paramparas. If there could be any parampara in Astrology, it could only be of Dr. B.V. Raman, over 100 years now and Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan, over 28 years now. Sanjay and his father used to visit many astrologers in Delhi for consultations. So much for parampara. In one of his mails then, Shri K.N. Rao had also mentioned how Tithi pravesh method was a common method practiced in Ashrams across India. He could say this with authority since he has travelled and lived throughout the length and breadth of India excepting few States like Kashmir, Goa, Kerala and Karnataka where he has interacted with astrologers. He had also mentioned about one Shri Raja Ram Shastri, a north Indian astrologer, who was writing a book on Tithi Pravesh but could not finish it before his death. Shri K.N. Rao has used and written about this method long > > before Sanjay pounced upon it and propagated it as discovery. > > > > I am personally aware of many things which need not be made public un-necessarily because it creates a bad taste. Later me and his maternal uncle were working together. His maternal uncle was my boss. I had asked him, why do you not consult Sanjay, his smile said it all. Later we developed a good rapport and he used to invite me for astrology and had also met Shri K.N. Rao for consultations. > > > > Shri K.N. Rao has reached a stage when he will not be interested in chart of anybody. Personally I believe that now he spends more time on his Sadhana and guiding his students as his goal is to spread astrology in purist form and not to distort it. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > ; JyotishWritings; vedic astrology > > Thu, March 4, 2010 11:43:20 PM > > Re: Too many options in JHora > > > >  > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued > > independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter. net>> > > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology% 40. com>; > > > > <% 40. com>; > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com>; > > > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > > > 11 OF > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > > > savya > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > jyeshta > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40gr oups. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWrit ings%40grou > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > 40. com> ; <JyotishGrou p%40. com> > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> < > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Dear All, For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and Shishya. With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following thoughts have been occuring in my mind. (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of the Shishya ? © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a Film, with No End! (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in JHora ! We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. Raj Bhardwaj vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > - > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote: > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>; > > > <%40>; > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > jhora <jhora%40> > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > confusion. > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > > clear. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > several years now. > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > Partha > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > > 11 OF > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > > savya > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > scholar.BTW > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > jyeshta > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > Parasara. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40grou > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > 40. com> ; <%40. com> > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Dear Narsimha, 1. Hope from my previous mail on group, you have got the address from where I got KCD lecture. I repeat again for your convenience. It Was From Clare & Gordon Brennan 108 Tyrone Road Thorpe Bay Essex SS 1 3 H B UK. Tel 01702 582576 2. I have carefully gone through the mail; it was circulated to his student only. What he meant (as understood by me) was In case of KCD all calculations given by various Software including J hora , if applied to real cases do not give correct base for reaching right prediction. 3. Concept of years of planets and KC flow of scheme derivation was explained at Mumbai conference and ganesh and kartikeya chakra with gandant were explained in London. 4. In essence by mail he exhibited Results for Jyestha 4 th pada. J hora still gives pattern for some of the option as you can yourself see below. Except " Rath & Rao " , Dr Raman all are out of scheme. I am talking of version 7.4 Beta 2. 5.I have no comments " The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar- etc " in his mail. Lastly, I have learnt from Sri Andrew that Pdt Rath teachings are yet not implemented in his SW. Hope you will take my mail in correct spirit and in future release, you may like to accommodate teachings of Rath also at your leisure. The bottom line is What you consider wrong should not find place in your creation for You are also an authority on astrology. If This mail finds you irritating Please ignore it. With regards. RC. Natal Chart March 8, 2010 Time: 10:06:57 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 78 E 01' 00 " , 27 N 11' 00 " Agra, India Nakshatra: Jyeshtha (Me) (3.02% left) Santhanam method Kalachakra Dasa (Moon, Apasavya group, Paramayush = 83 years): Maha Dasas: Ge (Mool3): 2002-08-03 - 2011-08-03 Ta (Mool2): 2011-08-03 - 2027-08-04 Ar (Mool1): 2027-08-04 - 2034-08-03 Sg (Jye4): 2034-08-03 - 2044-08-03 Cp (Jye3): 2044-08-03 - 2048-08-03 Aq (Jye2): 2048-08-03 - 2052-08-03 Pi (Jye1): 2052-08-03 - 2062-08-03 Ar (Anu4): 2062-08-03 - 2069-08-03 Ta (Anu3): 2069-08-03 - 2085-08-03 Dr Raman Kalachakra Dasa (Moon, Apasavya group, Paramayush = 100 years): Maha Dasas: Sg (USha1): 2001-05-23 - 2011-05-24 Sc (PSha4): 2011-05-24 - 2018-05-24 Li (PSha3): 2018-05-24 - 2034-05-24 Vi (PSha2): 2034-05-24 - 2043-05-24 Le (PSha1): 2043-05-24 - 2048-05-24 Cn (Mool4): 2048-05-24 - 2069-05-24 Ge (Mool3): 2069-05-24 - 2078-05-24 Ta (Mool2): 2078-05-24 - 2094-05-24 Ar (Mool1): 2094-05-24 - 2101-05-25 J HORA Kalachakra Dasa (Moon, Apasavya group, Paramayush = 83 years): Maha Dasas: Ge (Mool3): 2002-08-03 - 2011-08-03 Ta (Mool2): 2011-08-03 - 2027-08-04 Ar (Mool1): 2027-08-04 - 2034-08-03 Sg (Jye4): 2034-08-03 - 2044-08-03 Cp (Jye3): 2044-08-03 - 2048-08-03 Aq (Jye2): 2048-08-03 - 2052-08-03 Pi (Jye1): 2052-08-03 - 2062-08-03 Ar (Anu4): 2062-08-03 - 2069-08-03 Ta (Anu3): 2069-08-03 - 2085-08-03 Continuity in AD Kalachakra Dasa (Moon, Apasavya group, Paramayush = 100 years): Maha Dasas: Sg (USha1): 2001-05-23 - 2011-05-24 Sc (PSha4): 2011-05-24 - 2018-05-24 Li (PSha3): 2018-05-24 - 2034-05-24 Vi (PSha2): 2034-05-24 - 2043-05-24 Le (PSha1): 2043-05-24 - 2048-05-24 Cn (Mool4): 2048-05-24 - 2069-05-24 Ge (Mool3): 2069-05-24 - 2078-05-24 Ta (Mool2): 2078-05-24 - 2094-05-24 Ar (Mool1): 2094-05-24 - 2101-05-25 Rtah & Rao SJC Kalachakra Dasa (Moon, Apasavya group, Paramayush = 100 years): Maha Dasas: Sg (USha1): 2001-05-23 - 2011-05-24 Sc (PSha4): 2011-05-24 - 2018-05-24 Li (PSha3): 2018-05-24 - 2034-05-24 Vi (PSha2): 2034-05-24 - 2043-05-24 Le (PSha1): 2043-05-24 - 2048-05-24 Cn (Mool4): 2048-05-24 - 2069-05-24 Ge (Mool3): 2069-05-24 - 2078-05-24 Ta (Mool2): 2078-05-24 - 2094-05-24 Ar (Mool1): 2094-05-24 - 2101-05-25 Navamsa Progression. Kalachakra Dasa (Moon, Apasavya group, Paramayush = 100 years): Maha Dasas: Sg (Jye4): 2001-05-23 - 2011-05-24 Ar (Mool1): 2011-05-24 - 2018-05-24 Ta (Mool2): 2018-05-24 - 2034-05-24 Ge (Mool3): 2034-05-24 - 2043-05-24 Cn (Mool4): 2043-05-24 - 2064-05-24 Le (PSha1): 2064-05-24 - 2069-05-24 Vi (PSha2): 2069-05-24 - 2078-05-24 Li (PSha3): 2078-05-24 - 2094-05-24 Sc (PSha4): 2094-05-24 - 2101-05-25 Om TAT SAT. jhora , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Dear Partha, > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the confusion. > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is clear. > > * * * > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for several years now. > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > * * * > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > regards > > Partha > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > * * * > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page 11 OF > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has mentioned. > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all savya > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any scholar.BTW > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for jyeshta > > 4 th pada ? > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is enclosed. He wrote: > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates Parasara. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > - > > > Namaste, > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > * * * > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to buy the CD and listen. > > > > * * * > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but it seems like he changed things later. > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by Parasara. > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > * * * > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see exactly what he taught. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs <swami.rcs%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > jhora <jhora%40> [jhora <jhora%40> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > jhora <jhora%40> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40> ; vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> ; <%40> > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was still wrong. > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles itself. > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various dasas. > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your copy from www.vedicsoftware.com > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I used in London > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 To All, All of us have good and bad traits. Sanjay Ji and Rao Ji are also human beings and must possess good and bad qualities. We should appreciate their positive contributions to Jyotisha, and keep away (without making hue and cry) from their bad ideas if they have any bad ideas at all. I request both of them to improve their mutual relations, if possible. It is never too late. I am sorry to note that the real issue is being buried. -VJ ================== ==== vedic astrology , " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949 wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > Shishya. > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > the Shishya ? > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > Film, with No End! > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in > JHora ! > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ > wrote: > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > described in the mail below. > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > several years now. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > - > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > intelligent > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > afresh! I > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > freely, not > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > concerned > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > seem to have > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > maternal) did not > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40>; > > > > <%40>; > > > > JyotishWritings > <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > > jhora <jhora%40> > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition > everytime we > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and > wanted us to > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is > not sure. > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the > parampara > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence > the > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any > secrets > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > crack the > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed > the basic > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with > him and > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with > it now. > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed > what he > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > Parasara is > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen > him > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received > from the > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > secrets, > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > irresponsibly. If > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > it would've > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > researcher > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > many things > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > serious > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > testing. > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague > logic that > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* > for > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > explicitly > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > glorious > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > revolutionized > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly > for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, > but I > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > could not say > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > not want to > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > master, I am > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > anger in my > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > so as to > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > things. We > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying > and even > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > reasonably > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > difference > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > room is > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > What we need > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > impassioned > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. > My > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > decade and > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > astrology in > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri > K.N. Rao > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the > focus to > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath > took the > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > brought > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > plant > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > weeds we > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > tree. > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > actual plant > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > knowledge > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ > assume. Page > > > > 11 OF > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva > for all > > > > savya > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence > for > > > > jyeshta > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original > mail is > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all > others. > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > taught > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned > something else > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there > is no > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that > violates > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings > with > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his > teachings are > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, > Li, ... for > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details > Parasara left > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We > have enough > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > different > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC > conference. He did > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > JHora if > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > willing to > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me > from an > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited > my house > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they > result in > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by > Lord Shiva, > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa > pair in > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, > Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to > be " Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > (Ge->Cp) > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid > it is to > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle > corresponding to > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, > Cn, Le, Ge, > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, > Pi, Aq " . > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this > introduces > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between > Shiva and > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in > Sanskrit verses) > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa > cycle as > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the > next cycle, > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > antardasas > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go > one level > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple > and yet > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or > dasa-antardasa pairs > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical > structure behind > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > exclaimed > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > quickly). He > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming > SJC > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out > the > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not > want to wait. > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > paper, but > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined > by > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas > so that > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences > given by > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that > dasa > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > deduced. > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > correct! > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to > turn it > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people > want to > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his > option to > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper > and has > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I > need to see > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > rcs%40gmail. > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as > Per these > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From > Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self > by Guruji. > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > 40. > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% > <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > 40. > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings > <JyotishWritings%40grou > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- > astrology% > > > > 40. com> ; > <%40. com> > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in > a > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that > it was > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt > Rath's > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is > fine. If you > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the > calculations > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, > Le, Cn, > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also > matches what > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent > with > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined > paper at > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he > presented our > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent > with > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > methods, > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini > 4th pada > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to > match the dasa > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in > JHora match > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, > except of > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > various > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially > in how > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > method is > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of > dasa cycles > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > navamsas > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference > is > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to > various > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within > various > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the > fixed > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. > Please note > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% > <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " > <sanjayrath@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > found to > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa > calculation given > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are > WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk > and don't > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I > have > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > Get your > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if > we use > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying > we get > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > paper/slides I > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 rightly said. This plateform should not used for abusing. We respect all the Gurujan. This type of mails decerease the honour level of Astrology On 8 March 2010 20:50, VJha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > > To All, > > All of us have good and bad traits. Sanjay Ji and Rao Ji are also human > beings and must possess good and bad qualities. We should appreciate > their positive contributions to Jyotisha, and keep away (without making > hue and cry) from their bad ideas if they have any bad ideas at all. > > I request both of them to improve their mutual relations, if possible. > It is never too late. > > I am sorry to note that the real issue is being buried. > > -VJ > ================== ==== > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>, > " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > Shishya. > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > following > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > Narsimha > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > is > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > Lots > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > interpretation > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > doing > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > from > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > change > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > the > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > Kunjis > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > in > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > PEACE. > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>, > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > imperfect > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > quite > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > in > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > noticing > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > as > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > I > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > gems > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > god. > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > I > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > in > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > Sanjay > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > for > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > slowly. > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > several years now. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > <%40>, > neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > intelligent > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > afresh! I > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > freely, not > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > concerned > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > seem to have > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > maternal) did not > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> > > <vedic astrology%40>; > > > > > <%40><% > 40>; > > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40> > > <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > > > jhora <jhora%40> <jhora% > 40> > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition > > everytime we > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and > > wanted us to > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself > is > > not sure. > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the > > parampara > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and > hence > > the > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any > > secrets > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* > to > > crack the > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I > revealed > > the basic > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared > with > > him and > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running > with > > it now. > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed > > what he > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > Parasara is > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > seen > > him > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > received > > from the > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > parampara > > secrets, > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > it would've > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > researcher > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > many things > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > to > > serious > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > testing. > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > vague > > logic that > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > *ideas* > > for > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > sometimes > > explicitly > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > glorious > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > revolutionized > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > badly > > for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > now, > > but I > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > could not say > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > not want to > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > master, I am > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > anger in my > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > so as to > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > things. We > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > glorifying > > and even > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > reasonably > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > difference > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > room is > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > dark. > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > What we need > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > impassioned > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > interest. > > My > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > next > > decade and > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > astrology in > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > Sri > > K.N. Rao > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > the > > focus to > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > Rath > > took the > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > and > > brought > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > the > > plant > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > weeds we > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > a > > tree. > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > actual plant > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > knowledge > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ > > assume. Page > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar > has > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and > jeeva > > for all > > > > > savya > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this > sequence > > for > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original > > mail is > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all > > others. > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just > as > > taught > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned > > something else > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that > there > > is no > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that > > violates > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his > teachings > > with > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his > > teachings are > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, > > Li, ... for > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details > > Parasara left > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We > > have enough > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > different > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC > > conference. He did > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method > to > > JHora if > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written > form. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > willing to > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by > me > > from an > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he > visited > > my house > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra > pada > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they > > result in > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by > > Lord Shiva, > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible > dasa-antardasa > > pair in > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, > > Li, Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to > > be " Li, Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid > > it is to > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle > > corresponding to > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, > > Pi, Aq " . > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this > > introduces > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation > between > > Shiva and > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in > > Sanskrit verses) > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa > > cycle as > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the > > next cycle, > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > antardasas > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you > go > > one level > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple > > and yet > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or > > dasa-antardasa pairs > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical > > structure behind > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > exclaimed > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > quickly). He > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming > > SJC > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure > out > > the > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not > > want to wait. > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him > a > > paper, but > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles > defined > > by > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined > antardasas > > so that > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa > sequences > > given by > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that > > dasa > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > deduced. > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to > > turn it > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some > people > > want to > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his > > option to > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint > paper > > and has > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I > > need to see > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation > as > > Per these > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From > > Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self > > by Guruji. > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > > <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings > > <JyotishWritings%40grou <JyotishWritings%2540grou> > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- > > astrology% > > > > > 40. com> ; > > <%40 <%2540>. com> > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it > in > > a > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that > > it was > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt > > Rath's > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is > > fine. If you > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the > > calculations > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, > Vi, > > Le, Cn, > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also > > matches what > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent > > with > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined > > paper at > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he > > presented our > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is > inconsistent > > with > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > methods, > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of > " Rohini > > 4th pada > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to > > match the dasa > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in > > JHora match > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, > > except of > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same > between > > various > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is > essentially > > in how > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. > Raghavacharya > > method is > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of > > dasa cycles > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking > nine > > navamsas > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever > reference > > is > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to > > various > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within > > various > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the > > fixed > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. > > Please note > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- > --------- > > - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish > Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- > --------- > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%<sohamsa%25> > > <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " > > <sanjayrath@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today > and > > found to > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa > > calculation given > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are > > WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk > > and don't > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. > I > > have > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > Get your > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and > if > > we use > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying > > we get > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > paper/slides I > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 buries or perhaps even 'burned'? What seems to be the earthly fate for dead bodies...? Even the exhumed ones end up in archeological research laboratories or museums, I suppose! RR_, vedic astrology , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > To All, > > All of us have good and bad traits. Sanjay Ji and Rao Ji are also human > beings and must possess good and bad qualities. We should appreciate > their positive contributions to Jyotisha, and keep away (without making > hue and cry) from their bad ideas if they have any bad ideas at all. > > I request both of them to improve their mutual relations, if possible. > It is never too late. > > I am sorry to note that the real issue is being buried. > > -VJ > ================== ==== > vedic astrology , " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > Shishya. > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > following > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > Narsimha > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > is > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > Lots > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > interpretation > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > doing > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > from > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > change > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > the > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > Kunjis > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > in > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > PEACE. > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > imperfect > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > quite > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > in > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > noticing > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > as > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > I > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > gems > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > god. > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > I > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > in > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > Sanjay > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > for > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > slowly. > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > several years now. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > - > > > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > intelligent > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > afresh! I > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > freely, not > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > concerned > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > seem to have > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > maternal) did not > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology%40>; > > > > > <%40>; > > > > > JyotishWritings > > <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > > > jhora <jhora%40> > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition > > everytime we > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and > > wanted us to > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself > is > > not sure. > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the > > parampara > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and > hence > > the > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any > > secrets > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* > to > > crack the > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I > revealed > > the basic > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared > with > > him and > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running > with > > it now. > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed > > what he > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > Parasara is > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > seen > > him > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > received > > from the > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > parampara > > secrets, > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > it would've > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > researcher > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > many things > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > to > > serious > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > testing. > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > vague > > logic that > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > *ideas* > > for > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > sometimes > > explicitly > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > glorious > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > revolutionized > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > badly > > for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > now, > > but I > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > could not say > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > not want to > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > master, I am > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > anger in my > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > so as to > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > things. We > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > glorifying > > and even > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > reasonably > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > difference > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > room is > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > dark. > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > What we need > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > impassioned > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > interest. > > My > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > next > > decade and > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > astrology in > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > Sri > > K.N. Rao > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > the > > focus to > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > Rath > > took the > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > and > > brought > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > the > > plant > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > weeds we > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > a > > tree. > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > actual plant > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > knowledge > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ > > assume. Page > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar > has > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and > jeeva > > for all > > > > > savya > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this > sequence > > for > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original > > mail is > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all > > others. > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just > as > > taught > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned > > something else > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that > there > > is no > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that > > violates > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his > teachings > > with > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his > > teachings are > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, > > Li, ... for > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details > > Parasara left > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We > > have enough > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > different > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC > > conference. He did > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method > to > > JHora if > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written > form. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > willing to > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by > me > > from an > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he > visited > > my house > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra > pada > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they > > result in > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by > > Lord Shiva, > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible > dasa-antardasa > > pair in > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, > > Li, Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to > > be " Li, Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid > > it is to > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle > > corresponding to > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, > > Cn, Le, Ge, > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, > > Pi, Aq " . > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this > > introduces > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation > between > > Shiva and > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in > > Sanskrit verses) > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa > > cycle as > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the > > next cycle, > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > antardasas > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you > go > > one level > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple > > and yet > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or > > dasa-antardasa pairs > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical > > structure behind > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > exclaimed > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > quickly). He > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming > > SJC > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure > out > > the > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not > > want to wait. > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him > a > > paper, but > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles > defined > > by > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined > antardasas > > so that > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa > sequences > > given by > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that > > dasa > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > deduced. > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to > > turn it > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some > people > > want to > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his > > option to > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint > paper > > and has > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I > > need to see > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation > as > > Per these > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From > > Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self > > by Guruji. > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% > > <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > > 40. > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings > > <JyotishWritings%40grou > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- > > astrology% > > > > > 40. com> ; > > <%40. com> > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it > in > > a > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that > > it was > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt > > Rath's > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is > > fine. If you > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the > > calculations > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, > Vi, > > Le, Cn, > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also > > matches what > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent > > with > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined > > paper at > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he > > presented our > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is > inconsistent > > with > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > methods, > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of > " Rohini > > 4th pada > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to > > match the dasa > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in > > JHora match > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, > > except of > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same > between > > various > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is > essentially > > in how > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. > Raghavacharya > > method is > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of > > dasa cycles > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking > nine > > navamsas > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever > reference > > is > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to > > various > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within > > various > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the > > fixed > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. > > Please note > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- > --------- > > - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish > Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- > --------- > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% > > <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " > > <sanjayrath@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today > and > > found to > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa > > calculation given > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are > > WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk > > and don't > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. > I > > have > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > Get your > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and > if > > we use > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying > > we get > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > paper/slides I > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Guru Sanjay Ji had disowned Narsimha Ji as Shishya quite some time ago.I feel sad that still there are lot of spectators who insist that the show should go on. Reminds me of lyrics of Kaifi Azami- JAANE KYA DHOONDHTI REHTI HAIN YEH AANKHEN MUJH MAIN,RAAKH KE DHER MAIN SHOLA HAI NA CHINGARI HAI. AAB NA VOH PYAAR NA US PYYAR KI YADEIN BAAKI, AAG KUCHH AISI LAGI , KUCCHH NA RAHA KUCHH NA BACHA, JISKI TASVEER NIGAHON MAIN LIYE BAITHE HO, MAIN VOH TASVIR NAHIN USKEE HOON KHAMOSH CHITA.......JAANE KYA DHOONDHTI......JAANE KYA DHOONDHTI...... Raj Bhardwaj vedic astrology , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > buries or perhaps even 'burned'? > > What seems to be the earthly fate for dead bodies...? > > Even the exhumed ones end up in archeological research laboratories or museums, I suppose! > > RR_, > > > > vedic astrology , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > All of us have good and bad traits. Sanjay Ji and Rao Ji are also human > > beings and must possess good and bad qualities. We should appreciate > > their positive contributions to Jyotisha, and keep away (without making > > hue and cry) from their bad ideas if they have any bad ideas at all. > > > > I request both of them to improve their mutual relations, if possible. > > It is never too late. > > > > I am sorry to note that the real issue is being buried. > > > > -VJ > > ================== ==== > > vedic astrology , " Raj " <rajbhardwaj1949@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > Shishya. > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > > following > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > > Narsimha > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum > > is > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > > Lots > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > > interpretation > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > > doing > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > > from > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > > change > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > > the > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > > Kunjis > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > > in > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > > PEACE. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > > imperfect > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > > quite > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > occasion that > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > Astrology > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student > > in > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > > noticing > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon > > as > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that > > I > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > > gems > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > > god. > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, > > I > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > > in > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > > Sanjay > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > > for > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > > slowly. > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > - > > > > > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > occasion that > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > Astrology > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > intelligent > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > afresh! I > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > freely, not > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > concerned > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > > seem to have > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic astrology%40>; > > > > > > <%40>; > > > > > > JyotishWritings > > > <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > > > > jhora <jhora%40> > > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition > > > everytime we > > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and > > > wanted us to > > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself > > is > > > not sure. > > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the > > > parampara > > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and > > hence > > > the > > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any > > > secrets > > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* > > to > > > crack the > > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I > > revealed > > > the basic > > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared > > with > > > him and > > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running > > with > > > it now. > > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed > > > what he > > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > > Parasara is > > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > > seen > > > him > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > > received > > > from the > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > > parampara > > > secrets, > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > > it would've > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > researcher > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > > many things > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > > to > > > serious > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > testing. > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > > vague > > > logic that > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > > *ideas* > > > for > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > > sometimes > > > explicitly > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > glorious > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > revolutionized > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > > badly > > > for > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > > now, > > > but I > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > could not say > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > > not want to > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > master, I am > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > anger in my > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > > so as to > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > things. We > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > > glorifying > > > and even > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > reasonably > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > difference > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > room is > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > What we need > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > impassioned > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > > interest. > > > My > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > > next > > > decade and > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > astrology in > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > > Sri > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > > the > > > focus to > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > > Rath > > > took the > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > > and > > > brought > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > > the > > > plant > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > weeds we > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into > > a > > > tree. > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > > actual plant > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > knowledge > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ > > > assume. Page > > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar > > has > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and > > jeeva > > > for all > > > > > > savya > > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this > > sequence > > > for > > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original > > > mail is > > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all > > > others. > > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just > > as > > > taught > > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned > > > something else > > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that > > there > > > is no > > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that > > > violates > > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his > > teachings > > > with > > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his > > > teachings are > > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, > > > Li, ... for > > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details > > > Parasara left > > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We > > > have enough > > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > > different > > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC > > > conference. He did > > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method > > to > > > JHora if > > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written > > form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > > willing to > > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by > > me > > > from an > > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he > > visited > > > my house > > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra > > pada > > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they > > > result in > > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by > > > Lord Shiva, > > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible > > dasa-antardasa > > > pair in > > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, > > > Li, Vi, > > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to > > > be " Li, Vi, > > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid > > > it is to > > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle > > > corresponding to > > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge, > > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, > > > Pi, Aq " . > > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this > > > introduces > > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation > > between > > > Shiva and > > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in > > > Sanskrit verses) > > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa > > > cycle as > > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the > > > next cycle, > > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > > antardasas > > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you > > go > > > one level > > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple > > > and yet > > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or > > > dasa-antardasa pairs > > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical > > > structure behind > > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > > exclaimed > > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > > quickly). He > > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming > > > SJC > > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure > > out > > > the > > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not > > > want to wait. > > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him > > a > > > paper, but > > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles > > defined > > > by > > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined > > antardasas > > > so that > > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa > > sequences > > > given by > > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that > > > dasa > > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > > deduced. > > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to > > > turn it > > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some > > people > > > want to > > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his > > > option to > > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint > > paper > > > and has > > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I > > > need to see > > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > > Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > > tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation > > as > > > Per these > > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From > > > Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self > > > by Guruji. > > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > > > 40. > > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% > > > <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > > > 40. > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings > > > <JyotishWritings%40grou > > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- > > > astrology% > > > > > > 40. com> ; > > > <%40. com> > > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it > > in > > > a > > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that > > > it was > > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt > > > Rath's > > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is > > > fine. If you > > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the > > > calculations > > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, > > Vi, > > > Le, Cn, > > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also > > > matches what > > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent > > > with > > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined > > > paper at > > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he > > > presented our > > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is > > inconsistent > > > with > > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > > methods, > > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of > > " Rohini > > > 4th pada > > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to > > > match the dasa > > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in > > > JHora match > > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, > > > except of > > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same > > between > > > various > > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is > > essentially > > > in how > > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. > > Raghavacharya > > > method is > > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of > > > dasa cycles > > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking > > nine > > > navamsas > > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever > > reference > > > is > > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to > > > various > > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within > > > various > > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the > > > fixed > > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. > > > Please note > > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- > > --------- > > > - > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish > > Writings, > > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > > > Tarpana: > > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > > > tings > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- > > --------- > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% > > > <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " > > > <sanjayrath@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today > > and > > > found to > > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa > > > calculation given > > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are > > > WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk > > > and don't > > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. > > I > > > have > > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > Get your > > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and > > if > > > we use > > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying > > > we get > > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > > paper/slides I > > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Mr. Dinesh Dheengra, I had objected to your using that word " Ugly Faces " and more so for a lady member. Never against me or anyone. Do not try to circuvent things around. Secondly, please do inform me, what makes you think, I am Manoj Pathak. Manoj ________________________________ Dinesh Dheengra <dineshdheengra Mon, March 8, 2010 5:31:14 AM Re: Re: Too many options in JHora  Mr Manoj Pathak... Mouji Ram...  Dear Sir,  Read my posts again and again i have not written any thing obnoxious and against you Shri Pathak ji, i used one MUHABRA related to tail of a dog only...  I think you are venting anger as i wrote word 'UGLY FACES'., so you are considering your self as party of that word.  It was not directed on you, Mouji Ram, you have been/ are beautifull teacher at BVB and wrote one book ( PREDICTING THROUGH DWISAPTATI SAMA DASHA ) under the auspices of K N Rao, who wrote preface for your book just to oblige you for whole life.  Regds, Dinesh --- On Sun, 7/3/10, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > Re: Re: Too many options in JHora - Ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 5:52 AM  Mr. Dinesh Dheengra, I dont think anywhere Neelam Gupta in her mail said what you are ascribing to her. She only quoted the words of someone which only showed mutual respect for a fellow astrologer. And I do not know what makes you think the way you are writing to a female member. Does astrology teach you such things? Now whats happening in these groups is formation of groups. This is not new. But you should not be jumping to such low levels to show your sanskaras. Even Narasimha would not approve of such kind of a support coming to him. He still believes that Sanjay knows some uncommon techniques. There is no problem at all. The way, these unconsistencies in Sanjay's teachings have been exposed, same way, the other unconsistencies would also get exposed with time. Now please do think twice before writing such obnoxious things. regards, manoj ____________ _________ _________ __ dineshdheengra <dineshdheengra@ .in> Fri, March 5, 2010 3:12:51 PM Re: Too many options in JHora - Ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA  Dear Narashimha, Good post.... Be carefull, when ppl see knot is loose, try to hammer there just because of their vested interest.... Everybody would have seen ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA in the whole episode, who ran with her tail when she saw knot is loose just to hammer it.... Neelam Gupta says that you were in wrong hands, when something is not in her hand, other hands become wrong hand.... Narashimha be brave and give replies to all those ugly faces.... Regds, Dinesh , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste, > > Four points: > > (1) I gave my observations honestly. But, for all you know, my views may or may not be perfect. Other people who also have a lot of experience with him may, for all you know, disagree with me. > > (2) It will be very crude and unethical to use our limited knowledge of astrology to justify our views in matters like this. If history makes a judgment on this in future and/or creates a distance between us and these happenings, THEN it may be acceptable to analyze them astrologically. > > (3) Sanjay ji is a man with some good knowledge. If he is honest about what is from parampara and what are his ideas and enables intelligent youngsters to do unbiased research (instead of jumping to hasty conclusions, teaching that as parampara knowledge and making it into a cult), he may still make a positive difference. In the beginning, he had honesty and spirit of truth. He was quite honest with me about many things he was unsure of and asked me to investigate (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar months in TP). He changed. But he is basically a good man and wants the knowledge of rishis to triumph in the world, just as I do. I do not like to write anyone off in my book. Everyone has many choices in front of one at all times, whether one sees them or not. I do not control the choices others make and also I do not like to prejudge the choices they may make in future. > > (4) I haven't " dissociated " with Sanjay ji. How can one dissociate with someone who gave one some useful knowledge and who inspired one to do an important good karma (giving JHora to the world)? I have merely stated what I honestly believe to be the truth, for the benefit of other students and community. Simply a new event occurred in our " association " . > > Arjuna may have fired arrows at Drona or even killed him. But would he say " I dissociated with Drona " ? The association/ relationship of a teacher-student is permanent. > > * * * > > JHora uses yyyy-mm-dd format to stay neutral to Indo-European (dd-mm-yyyy) and American (mm-dd-yyyy) styles and also to be logical (Y > M > D). I will consider adding an option in a future release. But this request is too late for the 7.4 release which is going to happen very soon. The beta version is under testing in the jhora and the official release is only days away. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > , Vinay Kumar <vinay69@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and > > practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have > > contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious > > research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of > > astrologers in the next decade. > > > > Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what > > astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound > > jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean > > when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or > > other factors in his horoscope. > > > > I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and > > ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format? > > I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the > > option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in > > your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I > > have always been used to. > > > > Warm regards, > > Vinay > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, > > > Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar > > > vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is > > > not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who > > > used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji > > > did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and > > > non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading > > > of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. > > > Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first > > > communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring > > > 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji > > > maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you > > > keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in > > > his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I > > > maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I > > > gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly > > > corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent > > > research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while > > > remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up > > > astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam > > > yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I > > > vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any > > > expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are > > > shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to > > > caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth > > > without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of > > > offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the > > > applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also > > > sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going > > > against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing > > > and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful > > > and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I > > > started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As > > > far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years > > > now. > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > <% 40. com>, > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, > > > not > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > concerned > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to > > > have > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did > > > not > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter. net>> > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology % 40. com><vedic- astrology% > > > 40. com>; > > > > > <% 40. com><JyotishGrou p% > > > 40. com>; > > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com><JyotishWrit ings% > > > 40. com>; > > > > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> <jhora% > > > 40. com> > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime > > > we > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us > > > to > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not > > > sure. > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > > > crack the > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the > > > basic > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him > > > and > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it > > > now. > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > > Parasara is > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from > > > the > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > > secrets, > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it > > > would've > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > researcher > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many > > > things > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > > serious > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > testing. > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic > > > that > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > > explicitly > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > revolutionized > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not > > > say > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not > > > want to > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I > > > am > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in > > > my > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as > > > to > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. > > > We > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and > > > even > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > difference > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we > > > need > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > impassioned > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > > decade and > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology > > > in > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. > > > Rao > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus > > > to > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took > > > the > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > > brought > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > > plant > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > > tree. > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual > > > plant > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > knowledge > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. > > > Page > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for > > > all > > > > > savya > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail > > > is > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > > > taught > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something > > > else > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is > > > no > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings > > > are > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, .... > > > for > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara > > > left > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have > > > enough > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > > different > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He > > > did > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > > > JHora if > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > > willing to > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from > > > an > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my > > > house > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result > > > in > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord > > > Shiva, > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair > > > in > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, > > > Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be > > > " Li, Vi, > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is > > > to > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, > > > Le, Ge, > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, > > > Aq " . > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva > > > and > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit > > > verses) > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle > > > as > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next > > > cycle, > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > > antardasas > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one > > > level > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and > > > yet > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > pairs > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure > > > behind > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > > exclaimed > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > > quickly). He > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to > > > wait. > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > > > paper, but > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so > > > that > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given > > > by > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > > deduced. > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want > > > to > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and > > > has > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to > > > see > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per > > > these > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by > > > Guruji. > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > 40. > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora% 25>40 . com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > 40. > > > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings < > > > JyotishWritings% 40grou <JyotishWritings% 2540grou> > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > > 40. com> ; < > > > % 40 <% 2540> . com> > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If > > > you > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, > > > Cn, > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches > > > what > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper > > > at > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > > methods, > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th > > > pada > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the > > > dasa > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora > > > match > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except > > > of > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > > > various > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in > > > how > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > > > method is > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa > > > cycles > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > > > navamsas > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please > > > note > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa% 25>40 . com> < > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > > > found to > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation > > > given > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and > > > don't > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get > > > your > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we > > > use > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > > paper/slides I > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 om gurave namah Dear Raj When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. Jaya Bharati Regards ~ Sanjay Rath http://srath.cpm Raj Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora Dear All, For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and Shishya. With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following thoughts have been occuring in my mind. (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of the Shishya ? © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a Film, with No End! (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in JHora ! We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. Raj Bhardwaj vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as described in the mail below. > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years now. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------------------- > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > ------------------------- > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote: > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion that > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, not > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is concerned > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to have > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did not > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>; > > > <%40>; > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > jhora <jhora%40> > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > confusion. > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is > > > clear. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > several years now. > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > Partha > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page > > > 11 OF > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all > > > savya > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > scholar.BTW > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > jyeshta > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > Parasara. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. rcs%40gmail. > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> 40. > > > com> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40grou > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > 40. com> ; <%40. com> > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Respected Guru Sanjay Rath Ji, Trahimam ! Trahimam. I feel blessed to get mail from you ,Guruji ! For all your prashnas to me, with humbleness in my heart and prayer on my lips, I really have no answers. What my antarmanconveyed instantly to me is that everything you asked , belongs only to SJC. With my humble pranam and charan sparsha. Raj Bhardwaj vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote: > > om gurave namah > Dear Raj > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > Jaya Bharati > Regards ~ > Sanjay Rath > http://srath.cpm > > > Raj > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > Dear All, > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > Shishya. > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > the Shishya ? > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > Film, with No End! > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in > JHora ! > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. > > Raj Bhardwaj > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > described in the mail below. > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > several years now. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > intelligent > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > afresh! I > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > freely, not > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > concerned > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > seem to have > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > maternal) did not > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ <pvr%40charter.net>> > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40>; > > > > <%40>; > > > > JyotishWritings > <JyotishWritings%40>; > > > > jhora <jhora%40> > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition > everytime we > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and > wanted us to > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is > not sure. > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the > parampara > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence > the > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any > secrets > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > crack the > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed > the basic > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with > him and > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with > it now. > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed > what he > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > Parasara is > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen > him > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received > from the > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > secrets, > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > irresponsibly. If > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > it would've > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > researcher > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > many things > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > serious > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > testing. > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague > logic that > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* > for > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > explicitly > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > glorious > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > revolutionized > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly > for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, > but I > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > could not say > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > not want to > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > master, I am > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > anger in my > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > so as to > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > things. We > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying > and even > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > reasonably > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > difference > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > room is > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > What we need > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > impassioned > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. > My > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > decade and > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > astrology in > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri > K.N. Rao > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the > focus to > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath > took the > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > brought > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > plant > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > weeds we > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > tree. > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > actual plant > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > knowledge > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ > assume. Page > > > > 11 OF > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva > for all > > > > savya > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence > for > > > > jyeshta > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original > mail is > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all > others. > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > taught > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned > something else > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there > is no > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that > violates > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings > with > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his > teachings are > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, > Li, ... for > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details > Parasara left > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We > have enough > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > different > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC > conference. He did > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > JHora if > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > willing to > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me > from an > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited > my house > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they > result in > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by > Lord Shiva, > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa > pair in > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, > Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to > be " Li, Vi, > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > (Ge->Cp) > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid > it is to > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle > corresponding to > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, > Cn, Le, Ge, > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, > Pi, Aq " . > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this > introduces > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between > Shiva and > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in > Sanskrit verses) > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa > cycle as > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the > next cycle, > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > antardasas > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go > one level > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple > and yet > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or > dasa-antardasa pairs > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical > structure behind > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > exclaimed > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > quickly). He > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming > SJC > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out > the > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not > want to wait. > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > paper, but > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined > by > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas > so that > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences > given by > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that > dasa > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > deduced. > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > correct! > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to > turn it > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people > want to > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his > option to > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper > and has > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I > need to see > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > rcs%40gmail. > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as > Per these > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From > Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self > by Guruji. > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > 40. > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% > <jhora%25>40. com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> > 40. > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings > <JyotishWritings%40grou > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- > astrology% > > > > 40. com> ; > <%40. com> > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in > a > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that > it was > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt > Rath's > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is > fine. If you > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the > calculations > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, > Le, Cn, > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also > matches what > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent > with > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined > paper at > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he > presented our > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent > with > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > methods, > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini > 4th pada > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to > match the dasa > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in > JHora match > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, > except of > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > various > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially > in how > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > method is > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of > dasa cycles > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > navamsas > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference > is > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to > various > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within > various > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the > fixed > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. > Please note > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri > Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri > tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% > <sohamsa%25>40. com> < > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " > <sanjayrath@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > found to > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa > calculation given > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are > WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk > and don't > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I > have > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > Get your > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if > we use > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying > we get > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > paper/slides I > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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