Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 // Secondly, please do inform me, what makes you think, I am Manoj Pathak. // Why it was not first question MOUJI Both person (Mouji and Manoj Pathak @ BVB) writes from same port ie :- ' 59.180.154.28 ' Thanks and Regards Dinesh Dheengra , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 wrote: > > Mr. Dinesh Dheengra, > > I had objected to your using that word " Ugly Faces " and more so for a lady member. Never against me or anyone. Do not try to circuvent things around. > > Secondly, please do inform me, what makes you think, I am Manoj Pathak. > > Manoj > > > > > ________________________________ > Dinesh Dheengra <dineshdheengra > > Mon, March 8, 2010 5:31:14 AM > Re: Re: Too many options in JHora > >  > Mr Manoj Pathak... Mouji Ram... >  > Dear Sir, >  > Read my posts again and again i have not written any thing obnoxious and against you Shri Pathak ji, i used one MUHABRA related to tail of a dog only... >  > I think you are venting anger as i wrote word 'UGLY FACES'., so you are considering your self as party of that word. >  > It was not directed on you, Mouji Ram, you have been/ are beautifull teacher at BVB and wrote one book ( PREDICTING THROUGH DWISAPTATI SAMA DASHA ) under the auspices of K N Rao, who wrote preface for your book just to oblige you for whole life. >  > Regds, Dinesh > > --- On Sun, 7/3/10, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > > Re: Re: Too many options in JHora - Ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA > > Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 5:52 AM > >  > > Mr. Dinesh Dheengra, > > I dont think anywhere Neelam Gupta in her mail said what you are ascribing to her. She only quoted the words of someone which only showed mutual respect for a fellow astrologer. And I do not know what makes you think the way you are writing to a female member. Does astrology teach you such things? > > Now whats happening in these groups is formation of groups. This is not new. But you should not be jumping to such low levels to show your sanskaras. Even Narasimha would not approve of such kind of a support coming to him. He still believes that Sanjay knows some uncommon techniques. There is no problem at all. The way, these unconsistencies in Sanjay's teachings have been exposed, same way, the other unconsistencies would also get exposed with time. > > Now please do think twice before writing such obnoxious things. > > regards, > > manoj > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > dineshdheengra <dineshdheengra@ .in> > > Fri, March 5, 2010 3:12:51 PM > Re: Too many options in JHora - Ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA > >  > Dear Narashimha, > > Good post.... > > Be carefull, when ppl see knot is loose, try to hammer there just because of their vested interest.... > > Everybody would have seen ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA in the whole episode, who ran with her tail when she saw knot is loose just to hammer it.... > > Neelam Gupta says that you were in wrong hands, when something is not in her hand, other hands become wrong hand.... > > Narashimha be brave and give replies to all those ugly faces.... > > Regds, Dinesh > > , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > Four points: > > > > (1) I gave my observations honestly. But, for all you know, my views may or may not be perfect. Other people who also have a lot of experience with him may, for all you know, disagree with me. > > > > (2) It will be very crude and unethical to use our limited knowledge of astrology to justify our views in matters like this. If history makes a judgment on this in future and/or creates a distance between us and these happenings, THEN it may be acceptable to analyze them astrologically. > > > > (3) Sanjay ji is a man with some good knowledge. If he is honest about what is from parampara and what are his ideas and enables intelligent youngsters to do unbiased research (instead of jumping to hasty conclusions, teaching that as parampara knowledge and making it into a cult), he may still make a positive difference. In the beginning, he had honesty and spirit of truth. He was quite honest with me about many things he was unsure of and asked me to investigate (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar months in TP). He changed. But he is basically a good man and wants the knowledge of rishis to triumph in the world, just as I do. I do not like to write anyone off in my book. Everyone has many choices in front of one at all times, whether one sees them or not. I do not control the choices others make and also I do not like to prejudge the choices they may make in future. > > > > (4) I haven't " dissociated " with Sanjay ji. How can one dissociate with someone who gave one some useful knowledge and who inspired one to do an important good karma (giving JHora to the world)? I have merely stated what I honestly believe to be the truth, for the benefit of other students and community. Simply a new event occurred in our " association " . > > > > Arjuna may have fired arrows at Drona or even killed him. But would he say " I dissociated with Drona " ? The association/ relationship of a teacher-student is permanent. > > > > * * * > > > > JHora uses yyyy-mm-dd format to stay neutral to Indo-European (dd-mm-yyyy) and American (mm-dd-yyyy) styles and also to be logical (Y > M > D). I will consider adding an option in a future release. But this request is too late for the 7.4 release which is going to happen very soon. The beta version is under testing in the jhora and the official release is only days away. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > , Vinay Kumar <vinay69@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > > > I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and > > > practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have > > > contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious > > > research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of > > > astrologers in the next decade. > > > > > > Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what > > > astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound > > > jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean > > > when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or > > > other factors in his horoscope. > > > > > > I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and > > > ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format? > > > I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the > > > option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in > > > your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I > > > have always been used to. > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > Vinay > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, > > > > Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar > > > > vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is > > > > not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who > > > > used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji > > > > did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and > > > > non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading > > > > of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > > that > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. > > > > Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first > > > > communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring > > > > 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji > > > > maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you > > > > keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in > > > > his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I > > > > maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I > > > > gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly > > > > corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent > > > > research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while > > > > remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up > > > > astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam > > > > yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I > > > > vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any > > > > expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are > > > > shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to > > > > caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth > > > > without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of > > > > offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the > > > > applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also > > > > sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going > > > > against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing > > > > and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful > > > > and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I > > > > started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As > > > > far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > <% 40. com>, > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > > that > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, > > > > not > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > concerned > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to > > > > have > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did > > > > not > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter. net>> > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology % 40. com><vedic- astrology% > > > > 40. com>; > > > > > > <% 40. com><JyotishGrou p% > > > > 40. com>; > > > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com><JyotishWrit ings% > > > > 40. com>; > > > > > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> <jhora% > > > > 40. com> > > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime > > > > we > > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us > > > > to > > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not > > > > sure. > > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > > > > crack the > > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the > > > > basic > > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him > > > > and > > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it > > > > now. > > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > > > Parasara is > > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from > > > > the > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > > > secrets, > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it > > > > would've > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > researcher > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many > > > > things > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > > > serious > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > testing. > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic > > > > that > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > > > explicitly > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not > > > > say > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not > > > > want to > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I > > > > am > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in > > > > my > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as > > > > to > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. > > > > We > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and > > > > even > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > difference > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we > > > > need > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > impassioned > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > > > decade and > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology > > > > in > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. > > > > Rao > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus > > > > to > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took > > > > the > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > > > brought > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > > > plant > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > > > tree. > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual > > > > plant > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > knowledge > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. > > > > Page > > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for > > > > all > > > > > > savya > > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail > > > > is > > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > > > > taught > > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something > > > > else > > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is > > > > no > > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings > > > > are > > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, .... > > > > for > > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara > > > > left > > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have > > > > enough > > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > > > different > > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He > > > > did > > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > > > > JHora if > > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > > > willing to > > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from > > > > an > > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my > > > > house > > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result > > > > in > > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord > > > > Shiva, > > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair > > > > in > > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, > > > > Vi, > > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be > > > > " Li, Vi, > > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is > > > > to > > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, > > > > Le, Ge, > > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, > > > > Aq " . > > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva > > > > and > > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit > > > > verses) > > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle > > > > as > > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next > > > > cycle, > > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > > > antardasas > > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one > > > > level > > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and > > > > yet > > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs > > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure > > > > behind > > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > > > exclaimed > > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > > > quickly). He > > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to > > > > wait. > > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > > > > paper, but > > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so > > > > that > > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given > > > > by > > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > > > deduced. > > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want > > > > to > > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and > > > > has > > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to > > > > see > > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per > > > > these > > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by > > > > Guruji. > > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > > 40. > > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora% 25>40 . com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > > 40. > > > > > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings < > > > > JyotishWritings% 40grou <JyotishWritings% 2540grou> > > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > > > 40. com> ; < > > > > % 40 <% 2540> . com> > > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If > > > > you > > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, > > > > Cn, > > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches > > > > what > > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper > > > > at > > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > > > methods, > > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th > > > > pada > > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the > > > > dasa > > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora > > > > match > > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except > > > > of > > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > > > > various > > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in > > > > how > > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > > > > method is > > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa > > > > cycles > > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > > > > navamsas > > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please > > > > note > > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa% 25>40 . com> < > > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > > > > found to > > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation > > > > given > > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and > > > > don't > > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get > > > > your > > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we > > > > use > > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > > > paper/slides I > > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Dont make me laugh yaar and dont compare me with anyone. I am a person engaged in sales and marketing, so keep writing from differnt places, not from now but since 1995. So please dont equate me with anyone. Similarilty in name doesnt mean similarity in personality. Anyway, you may have your reasons, but do you have any thing astrological in common or for discussion. Welcome, as part of disinformation campaign. regards, Mouji Ram ________________________________ dineshdheengra <dineshdheengra Wed, March 10, 2010 5:57:38 AM Re: Too many options in JHora  // Secondly, please do inform me, what makes you think, I am Manoj Pathak. // Why it was not first question MOUJI Both person (Mouji and Manoj Pathak @ BVB) writes from same port ie :- ' 59.180.154.28 ' Thanks and Regards Dinesh Dheengra , Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > Mr. Dinesh Dheengra, > > I had objected to your using that word " Ugly Faces " and more so for a lady member. Never against me or anyone. Do not try to circuvent things around. > > Secondly, please do inform me, what makes you think, I am Manoj Pathak. > > Manoj > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Dinesh Dheengra <dineshdheengra@ ...> > > Mon, March 8, 2010 5:31:14 AM > Re: Re: Too many options in JHora > >  > Mr Manoj Pathak... Mouji Ram... >  > Dear Sir, >  > Read my posts again and again i have not written any thing obnoxious and against you Shri Pathak ji, i used one MUHABRA related to tail of a dog only... >  > I think you are venting anger as i wrote word 'UGLY FACES'., so you are considering your self as party of that word. >  > It was not directed on you, Mouji Ram, you have been/ are beautifull teacher at BVB and wrote one book ( PREDICTING THROUGH DWISAPTATI SAMA DASHA ) under the auspices of K N Rao, who wrote preface for your book just to oblige you for whole life. >  > Regds, Dinesh > > --- On Sun, 7/3/10, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote: > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > > Re: Re: Too many options in JHora - Ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA > > Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 5:52 AM > >  > > Mr. Dinesh Dheengra, > > I dont think anywhere Neelam Gupta in her mail said what you are ascribing to her. She only quoted the words of someone which only showed mutual respect for a fellow astrologer. And I do not know what makes you think the way you are writing to a female member. Does astrology teach you such things? > > Now whats happening in these groups is formation of groups. This is not new. But you should not be jumping to such low levels to show your sanskaras. Even Narasimha would not approve of such kind of a support coming to him. He still believes that Sanjay knows some uncommon techniques. There is no problem at all. The way, these unconsistencies in Sanjay's teachings have been exposed, same way, the other unconsistencies would also get exposed with time. > > Now please do think twice before writing such obnoxious things. > > regards, > > manoj > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > dineshdheengra <dineshdheengra@ .in> > > Fri, March 5, 2010 3:12:51 PM > Re: Too many options in JHora - Ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA > >  > Dear Narashimha, > > Good post.... > > Be carefull, when ppl see knot is loose, try to hammer there just because of their vested interest.... > > Everybody would have seen ugly face of NEELAM GUPTA in the whole episode, who ran with her tail when she saw knot is loose just to hammer it.... > > Neelam Gupta says that you were in wrong hands, when something is not in her hand, other hands become wrong hand.... > > Narashimha be brave and give replies to all those ugly faces.... > > Regds, Dinesh > > , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > Four points: > > > > (1) I gave my observations honestly. But, for all you know, my views may or may not be perfect. Other people who also have a lot of experience with him may, for all you know, disagree with me. > > > > (2) It will be very crude and unethical to use our limited knowledge of astrology to justify our views in matters like this. If history makes a judgment on this in future and/or creates a distance between us and these happenings, THEN it may be acceptable to analyze them astrologically. > > > > (3) Sanjay ji is a man with some good knowledge. If he is honest about what is from parampara and what are his ideas and enables intelligent youngsters to do unbiased research (instead of jumping to hasty conclusions, teaching that as parampara knowledge and making it into a cult), he may still make a positive difference. In the beginning, he had honesty and spirit of truth. He was quite honest with me about many things he was unsure of and asked me to investigate (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar months in TP). He changed. But he is basically a good man and wants the knowledge of rishis to triumph in the world, just as I do. I do not like to write anyone off in my book. Everyone has many choices in front of one at all times, whether one sees them or not. I do not control the choices others make and also I do not like to prejudge the choices they may make in future. > > > > (4) I haven't " dissociated " with Sanjay ji. How can one dissociate with someone who gave one some useful knowledge and who inspired one to do an important good karma (giving JHora to the world)? I have merely stated what I honestly believe to be the truth, for the benefit of other students and community. Simply a new event occurred in our " association " . > > > > Arjuna may have fired arrows at Drona or even killed him. But would he say " I dissociated with Drona " ? The association/ relationship of a teacher-student is permanent. > > > > * * * > > > > JHora uses yyyy-mm-dd format to stay neutral to Indo-European (dd-mm-yyyy) and American (mm-dd-yyyy) styles and also to be logical (Y > M > D). I will consider adding an option in a future release. But this request is too late for the 7.4 release which is going to happen very soon. The beta version is under testing in the jhora and the official release is only days away. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > , Vinay Kumar <vinay69@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > > > I think you are true to your heart and mind in whatever you say and > > > practice. I have been following your writings closely and must say you have > > > contributed some genuine original stuff that is a result of your laborious > > > research. Please continue and I see you right there it to the top rung of > > > astrologers in the next decade. > > > > > > Thinking of your dissociation with Sri Sanjay-ji, in your opinion, what > > > astrological factors in his horoscope do you think makes him propound > > > jyotish knowledge that you think is incorrect or corrupted knowledge? I mean > > > when we disucss jyotish, this has to show in the dashas and bukthis or > > > other factors in his horoscope. > > > > > > I have another question regarding JHora. In the Dasas Tab for starting and > > > ending dates is is possible to get dd-mm-yyyy rather than yyyy-mm-dd format? > > > I tried the preferences tab (related to display) but could not find the > > > option to change this. If this is not available I suggest you include it in > > > your next release, I really prefer to see the Indian date format which I > > > have always been used to. > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > Vinay > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For example, > > > > Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect (e.g. solar > > > > vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite well. As it is > > > > not found in any books or classics and as there weren't too many people who > > > > used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable to assume that Sanjay ji > > > > did know some secrets. But the quality of his teachings is quite erratic and > > > > non-uniform. I disagree with you regarding Parampara and stand by my reading > > > > of the situation as described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > > that > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my horoscope. > > > > Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I first > > > > communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in spring > > > > 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As Sanjay ji > > > > maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach it later " , you > > > > keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing inconsistencies in > > > > his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as 2001-2002. I > > > > maintained intellectual independence in all public exchanges. From 2004, I > > > > gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I am dealing with highly > > > > corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems and started independent > > > > research to sort things. My intention was to clean up the mess while > > > > remaining within his organization. During 2005-2006, I nearly gave up > > > > astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. After the seed for the " do homam > > > > yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I was back to astrology seriously. I > > > > vigorously pursued independent astrology research in 2006-2009, without any > > > > expectations and with a much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are > > > > shared, some are in the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay ji to > > > > caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for truth > > > > without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if fear of > > > > offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by rocking the > > > > applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I was also > > > > sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being truthful and going > > > > against them. He reminded me that we come with nothing and go with nothing > > > > and why should we fear anything or seek anything. He told me to be truthful > > > > and honest and do my dharma sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I > > > > started hinting at Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. As > > > > far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for several years > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > <% 40. com>, > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one occasion > > > > that > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! Astrology > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the intelligent > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start afresh! I > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares freely, > > > > not > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > concerned > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not seem to > > > > have > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and maternal) did > > > > not > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr%40charter. net>> > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology % 40. com><vedic- astrology% > > > > 40. com>; > > > > > > <% 40. com><JyotishGrou p% > > > > 40. com>; > > > > > > JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings% 40. com><JyotishWrit ings% > > > > 40. com>; > > > > > > jhora <jhora%40 s.com> <jhora% > > > > 40. com> > > > > > > Wed, March 3, 2010 11:54:44 PM > > > > > > Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > > > > > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > > > > > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > > > > > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime > > > > we > > > > > > met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us > > > > to > > > > > > figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not > > > > sure. > > > > > > However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara > > > > > > regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the > > > > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets > > > > > > from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to > > > > crack the > > > > > > KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the > > > > basic > > > > > > KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him > > > > and > > > > > > what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it > > > > now. > > > > > > The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he > > > > > > hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where > > > > Parasara is > > > > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from > > > > the > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > > > secrets, > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it > > > > would've > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > > > researcher > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many > > > > things > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > > > serious > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > > > testing. > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic > > > > that > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > > > explicitly > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not > > > > say > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not > > > > want to > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I > > > > am > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in > > > > my > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as > > > > to > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. > > > > We > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and > > > > even > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > difference > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we > > > > need > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > > > impassioned > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > > > decade and > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology > > > > in > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. > > > > Rao > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus > > > > to > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took > > > > the > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > > > brought > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > > > plant > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > > > tree. > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual > > > > plant > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > > > knowledge > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Srivastava, > > > > > > > > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. > > > > Page > > > > > > 11 OF > > > > > > > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for > > > > all > > > > > > savya > > > > > > > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any > > > > > > scholar.BTW > > > > > > > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for > > > > > > jyeshta > > > > > > > 4 th pada ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail > > > > is > > > > > > enclosed. He wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. > > > > > > <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as > > > > taught > > > > > > by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something > > > > else > > > > > > ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is > > > > no > > > > > > typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates > > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with > > > > > > free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings > > > > are > > > > > > WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, .... > > > > for > > > > > > Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara > > > > left > > > > > > ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have > > > > enough > > > > > > confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was > > > > different > > > > > > from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He > > > > did > > > > > > not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to > > > > JHora if > > > > > > he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were > > > > willing to > > > > > > buy the CD and listen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from > > > > an > > > > > > old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my > > > > house > > > > > > in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada > > > > > > unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result > > > > in > > > > > > dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord > > > > Shiva, > > > > > > who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair > > > > in > > > > > > savya and apasavya chakras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, > > > > Vi, > > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be > > > > " Li, Vi, > > > > > > Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap > > > > (Ge->Cp) > > > > > > not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is > > > > to > > > > > > NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to > > > > > > Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, > > > > Le, Ge, > > > > > > [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, > > > > Aq " . > > > > > > This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces > > > > > > mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva > > > > and > > > > > > Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit > > > > verses) > > > > > > was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle > > > > as > > > > > > people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next > > > > cycle, > > > > > > but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding > > > > antardasas > > > > > > from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one > > > > level > > > > > > down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and > > > > yet > > > > > > elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa > > > > pairs > > > > > > that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure > > > > behind > > > > > > the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he > > > > exclaimed > > > > > > that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very > > > > quickly). He > > > > > > asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC > > > > > > conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the > > > > > > apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to > > > > wait. > > > > > > I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a > > > > paper, but > > > > > > it seems like he changed things later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by > > > > > > Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so > > > > that > > > > > > they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or > > > > dasa-antardasa > > > > > > pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given > > > > by > > > > > > Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa > > > > > > sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be > > > > deduced. > > > > > > You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be > > > > correct! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it > > > > > > against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want > > > > to > > > > > > invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to > > > > > > JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and > > > > has > > > > > > no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to > > > > see > > > > > > exactly what he taught. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs (AT) gmail (DOT) com <swami. > > > > rcs%40gmail. > > > > > > com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per > > > > these > > > > > > teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by > > > > Guruji. > > > > > > In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RCS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > > 40. > > > > > > com> [jhora <jhora% <jhora%25><jhora% 25>40 . com> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > > > > > > > jhora <jhora% <jhora%25> <jhora%25> > > > > 40. > > > > > > > > > > com> ; JyotishWritings < > > > > JyotishWritings% 40grou <JyotishWritings% 2540grou> > > > > > > ps.com> ; vedic astrology <vedic- astrology% > > > > > > 40. com> ; < > > > > % 40 <% 2540> . com> > > > > > > > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a > > > > > > previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was > > > > > > still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's > > > > > > complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If > > > > you > > > > > > select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations > > > > > > given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, > > > > Cn, > > > > > > Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches > > > > what > > > > > > Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be > > > > > > " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with > > > > > > Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper > > > > at > > > > > > the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our > > > > > > combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with > > > > > > Parasara's teachings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other > > > > methods, > > > > > > please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th > > > > pada > > > > > > is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the > > > > dasa > > > > > > cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora > > > > match > > > > > > the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except > > > > of > > > > > > course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between > > > > various > > > > > > methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in > > > > how > > > > > > dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya > > > > method is > > > > > > the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa > > > > cycles > > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine > > > > navamsas > > > > > > starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is > > > > > > chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various > > > > > > nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various > > > > > > dasas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed > > > > > > sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please > > > > note > > > > > > the setting mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa% 25>40 . com> < > > > > > > sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> 40. com> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and > > > > found to > > > > > > my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation > > > > given > > > > > > in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and > > > > don't > > > > > > ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have > > > > > > checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get > > > > your > > > > > > copy from www.vedicsoftware. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we > > > > use > > > > > > full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get > > > > > > Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra > > > > paper/slides I > > > > > > used in London > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Narasimha, It is you who is corrupting the knowledge and are using tactics like Hitler's propaganda machine to constantly use my name for this purpose. Like Hitler you too have four planets in Aries with Lagnesh and the Sun is in the 7th house. These are the people who want to start a completely new world order. Now I need to try to put things once again in the right perspective as you are again twisting things - 1. Regarding Kala Chakra Dasha: You have stated a whole lot of statements in very bad taste without even realising that from 2004 I had completely stopped talking to you. That was the second last time I saw you, the last being the California conference of 2006. Why should I teach one as ungrateful as you? Dd you think that I am such a simple fool from a backward state like Orissa that I would take the trouble of teaching one as arrogant and puffed up like you? So when you presented the KCD, I thought you had understood what I was talking about but the truth is that you never understood anything. You were too busy trying to decipher a little telugu book you had and were not even listening to what I was saying. So I knew better. Now the paper you sent to the Bombay conference reads *by PVR Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Rath* but I have *not changed a single word that you wrote*. It is completely your paper and it was simply published. I DID NOT present that paper. I taught the Kala Chakra Dasha basics as it was taught in our tradition. Later in 2005, London I have taught the Kala Chakra Dasha completely to Gordon, Mariella and others. You can get the recordings. Now you don’t even know what Kala Chakra Dasha I have taught and you have jumped to conclusions, made cheap remarks and are again doing the Hitler thing. Now you become Parashara champion and then you say D144 is for past life. Your interpretation will always be limited by your thinking and for some of the sloka you will never have an answer. Some shloka which you think are perfect and have vouched your entire faith faith on, are recorded incorrectly. How will you ever know? Meditation?? 2. If you knew from 2004 that I was wrong or that all of SJC is wrong and bad or evil or whatever that you are saying in your propaganda machine, why did you become CHAIRMAN of SJC from 2006 till 2009 (when you were asked to leave)? Whay have you done for SJC other than using it as a platform for self propaganda and aggrandizement? In fact you took the responsibility to simply destroy SJC. What enmity you have with Krishna? Why did you do this? Why did you not decline and give up the responsibility if you did not agree with SJC views? Why did you become chairman and do such an evil thing against SJC? This has reference to a mail of yours dated 3-4 March which was shown to me today. I have been missing most of the mails due to my writing work. This has come as a big shock for me. Why did you do such a thing. If you were straight as you claim, you should have left SJC for all that you say. Not only have you shown that you are weak but also some very bad karma has been generated by this clandestine behavior. I will not hold this against you but expect you to make some amends. Talk to your guru about this before you continue in this tirade. If you think you can provoke me to start teaching here by making all those accusations, the tactics will not work. Your knowledge is not even half baked - its raw. I have done good work and made some serious progress in teaching the Jaimini scholars and now there is a Parashara Hora course. In another few years you will be lost in the darkness that you have chosen to be with. In the name of Brihaspati I remain Sanjay Rath Narasimha PVR Rao Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:54 PM vedic astrology ; ; JyotishWritings ; jhora [vedic astrology] Too many options in JHora Dear Partha, > Dear Narasimha > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the confusion. In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is clear. * * * Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that he can justify any result with any astrological factor. Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for several years now. I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. * * * > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to avoid confusions for novices like me. > > regards > Partha JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. 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Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Cher François, " True " and 'appropriate' are not synonyms! Take care! Rohiniranjan vedic astrology , " CARRIERE Francois " <yl.car.fr wrote: > > Sanjay Rath > Saturday, March 20, 2010 8:31 AM > vedic astrology > Re: [vedic astrology] Too many options in JHora > > > It is you who is corrupting the knowledge and are using tactics like Hitler's propaganda [...] > Does everyone should have expected Godwin's law to jump in!? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Narasimha, no one is scoring brownie points. Am only trying to show you what you are doing wrong. You have not even studied the Kala Chakra Dasha taught by me, not heard the tapes or recordings, not bothered to see the slides and for the past three years you have been saying that my teaching of KCD is wrong. And all this while I thought you had studied them and were going to comment on them. Is this considered logical and reasonable behavior in study circles? For three years you kept on harping on this? Is this not Goebbels propaganda? Why are you doing this propaganda without even bothering to study what I have taught in KCD? You can contact Gordon for the recordings. When you say that you are criticizing my teachings, then it is fine - I can live with it. so long as you are giving specific points to criticize I can study them at my spare time and reply. This is done by taking a paper presented by me and discussing the points contained therein. OK what happens if I don’t respond? Can you not have a seminar or conference and ask me to answer it there? Did you try all the peaceful means before lifting the astra? Ask these questions to yourself. Don't you know how I teach my students? Each of them I work on till I make them experts, seeking knowledge all the time. Look at any of my students who has spent some time with me - all are great seekers. So why say I said that and did not say this? If I said that you can figure out the KCD, then I was teaching you to believe in yourself and the principles of jyotish to figure this out. If I said that you can do it, then I was telling you to try hard and giving you the confidence to go ahead and try it. My students may criticize me for many things but they, and that includes you, cannot say I did not *make you serious jyotish seekers*. It is not just one person that I have taught - I have sacrificed everything in life to teach so many, and each one is a great jyotish seeker. Secondly, it is also wrong to say they are not grateful. Each one is grateful in a manner they express their feeling. Everyone of my students has given to me much much more than what I expected from them, and this includes YOU also. I will not forget all that you have done. No the issue is not about questioning me or my teachings. The issue is about your untruthful behavior as Chairman of an organization. When you do not believe in its teachings and say that the entire tradition is bogus, why did you take up the Chairmanship? Why did you not decline it and say you will not take the responsibility and position? Is this truthful behavior? It is a separate issue that SJC almost shut down under you. It is also not too late to confess that you were wrong. I told you that I am not going to hold you against this and that this is your Karma towards Sri Krishna. If you really believed in Sri Krishna you would have at least continued what I had started. Yes you have continued SJC-Boston but then you did this for your own self-aggrandizement and not for SJC. See how *your students* at Boston wanted to form a separate group under you. This is my point. Try to see how you have just focused in yourself and not on Sri Jagannath. What hurt me was your message to this list where you spoke truthfully about yourself - You had decided in your mind from 2004 that you did not believe in the teachings of SJC and that your patience had dried out and then you went on to become the Chairman of SJC in 2006. Don't give me an excuse like you could not say *no*. You have a mind of your own and you say *no* when you want to. That is what I asked - why did you have to do this? When you don’t like something, have the character to walk away from it. There is just no point in discussing this further if you are neither willing to look beyond and see the reality of your mistake. ============ In a lighter mood ================= For the sake of Francois and other braves who made a statement > Just from jyotish perspective - You did not comment on the meaning of Sun in 7th house or in badhaka. You did not comment on the meaning of that same Mars in 8th house (I am using houses, I did mention it in my mail) with debilitated Saturn conjoining Mercury. OK you don’t like the word curse, so call it some other name you like. Sarala yoga is when 8th lord is in 8th house but what happens if this is with a debilitated Saturn? OK you don't like Hitler - neither do I. Another combination - Both you and Hitler have Moon in bad house with a node: You have Moon in 6th with Rahu and Hitler had Moon in 3rd with Ketu. Hitler had Jupiter conjoining this Moon+Ketu, you have Jupiter in mutual aspect with the Moon+Rahu. ======================================== Best Wishes Sanjay Rath Narasimha PVR Rao Sunday, March 21, 2010 9:48 AM vedic astrology ; ; JyotishWritings [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora Namaste Sanjay, Mars in moolatrikona in 8th house gives sarala yoga (straight-forwardness). Hitler's moolatrikona Mars was not in the 8th house. Won't results change based on the house or is lagna irrelevant? What kind of a person misuses a sacred subject such as Jyotish to score some brownie points based on faulty logic and to compare his opponent to Hitler?! * * * > why did you become CHAIRMAN of SJC from 2006 till 2009 (when you > were asked to leave)? Whay have you done for SJC other than using > it as a platform for self propaganda and aggrandizement? I never asked to be made chairman. It was your decision. It never mattered to me. I never used that position in any way. Did I ever mention the position in my signature in any mails? When I criticized your teachings, I did it as an individual Jyotish scholar and never used any position to do it. > What enmity you have with Krishna? Questioning untruth does not amount to enmity with Krishna. In fact, Krishna is in truth and not in the name of any person or organization. Regarding why I did not leave earlier, I always thought SJC had some good seeds of knowledge (that needed to germinate). I had also seen the honest side of you in early years. I did not give up the hope that deception and misrepresentation of knowledge could be changed and things could be fine again. * * * > How will you ever know? Meditation?? Yes, meditation and then practical verification. > In another few years you will be lost in the darkness that > you have chosen to be with. I will be happy to go off seeking the light of rishis and get lost in the darkness, rather than deluding myself that the very dim light I am in is the real light of rishis. I have absolutely no ambitions in Jyotish, except to faithfully and honestly do the job I am internally inspired to do. Whatever my Mother wants done through me, She will get it done through me. I have faith in Her. If She wants me to get lost in the darkness, so will it be. I will then be happy to get lost in the darkness! * * * > If you think you can provoke me to start teaching here by > making all those accusations, the tactics will not work. Oh no, I am not trying to make you " start teaching here " . Teach wherever you do, on whatever terms you do. * * * > You were too busy trying to decipher a little telugu book you had > and were not even listening to what I was saying. So I knew better. This is an absolute lie. You did not have anything to say. In fact, you were quite excited when I explained you what was in that " little Telugu book " and you exclaimed with your typical enthusiasm, " THAT's IT, Narasimha. The puzzle is solved. Let us teach this at the conference. " I protested saying I had to figure out apasavya nakshatras still, but you asked me to send the paper soon. > Now the paper you sent to the Bombay conference reads *by PVR Narasimha Rao and > Sanjay Rath* but I have *not changed a single word that you wrote*. It is > completely your paper and it was simply published. I DID NOT present that paper. > I taught the Kala Chakra Dasha basics as it was taught in our tradition. You did not change a single word that I wrote, but you DID publish it in our JOINT names, didn't you? If you really had some secrets in " tradition " that you were going to teach, why did you ask for the paper and publish it in our joint names and schedule a lecture on KCD in our joint names at the conference? In fact, you specifically told me several years back that you depended on me to figure out KCD. It is obvious to me that you had no secrets from tradition regarding KCD, simply made some changes at the last minute to what I sent based on your intuition and passed it off as knowledge from " tradition " . Best regards, Narasimha ------------------------- Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Namaste Sanjay, Mars in moolatrikona in 8th house gives sarala yoga (straight-forwardness). Hitler's moolatrikona Mars was not in the 8th house. Won't results change based on the house or is lagna irrelevant? What kind of a person misuses a sacred subject such as Jyotish to score some brownie points based on faulty logic and to compare his opponent to Hitler?! * * * > why did you become CHAIRMAN of SJC from 2006 till 2009 (when you > were asked to leave)? Whay have you done for SJC other than using > it as a platform for self propaganda and aggrandizement? I never asked to be made chairman. It was your decision. It never mattered to me. I never used that position in any way. Did I ever mention the position in my signature in any mails? When I criticized your teachings, I did it as an individual Jyotish scholar and never used any position to do it. > What enmity you have with Krishna? Questioning untruth does not amount to enmity with Krishna. In fact, Krishna is in truth and not in the name of any person or organization. Regarding why I did not leave earlier, I always thought SJC had some good seeds of knowledge (that needed to germinate). I had also seen the honest side of you in early years. I did not give up the hope that deception and misrepresentation of knowledge could be changed and things could be fine again. * * * > How will you ever know? Meditation?? Yes, meditation and then practical verification. > In another few years you will be lost in the darkness that > you have chosen to be with. I will be happy to go off seeking the light of rishis and get lost in the darkness, rather than deluding myself that the very dim light I am in is the real light of rishis. I have absolutely no ambitions in Jyotish, except to faithfully and honestly do the job I am internally inspired to do. Whatever my Mother wants done through me, She will get it done through me. I have faith in Her. If She wants me to get lost in the darkness, so will it be. I will then be happy to get lost in the darkness! * * * > If you think you can provoke me to start teaching here by > making all those accusations, the tactics will not work. Oh no, I am not trying to make you " start teaching here " . Teach wherever you do, on whatever terms you do. * * * > You were too busy trying to decipher a little telugu book you had > and were not even listening to what I was saying. So I knew better. This is an absolute lie. You did not have anything to say. In fact, you were quite excited when I explained you what was in that " little Telugu book " and you exclaimed with your typical enthusiasm, " THAT's IT, Narasimha. The puzzle is solved. Let us teach this at the conference. " I protested saying I had to figure out apasavya nakshatras still, but you asked me to send the paper soon. > Now the paper you sent to the Bombay conference reads *by PVR Narasimha Rao and > Sanjay Rath* but I have *not changed a single word that you wrote*. It is > completely your paper and it was simply published. I DID NOT present that paper. > I taught the Kala Chakra Dasha basics as it was taught in our tradition. You did not change a single word that I wrote, but you DID publish it in our JOINT names, didn't you? If you really had some secrets in " tradition " that you were going to teach, why did you ask for the paper and publish it in our joint names and schedule a lecture on KCD in our joint names at the conference? In fact, you specifically told me several years back that you depended on me to figure out KCD. It is obvious to me that you had no secrets from tradition regarding KCD, simply made some changes at the last minute to what I sent based on your intuition and passed it off as knowledge from " tradition " . Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote: > Narasimha, > > It is you who is corrupting the knowledge and are using tactics like Hitler's propaganda machine to constantly use my name for this purpose. Like Hitler you too have four planets in Aries with Lagnesh and the Sun is in the 7th house. These are the people who want to start a completely new world order. Now I need to try to put things once again in the right perspective as you are again twisting things - > > 1. Regarding Kala Chakra Dasha: You have stated a whole lot of statements in very bad taste without even realising that from 2004 I had completely stopped talking to you. That was the second last time I saw you, the last being the California conference of 2006. Why should I teach one as ungrateful as you? Dd you think that I am such a simple fool from a backward state like Orissa that I would take the trouble of teaching one as arrogant and puffed up like you? So when you presented the KCD, I thought you had understood what I was talking about but the truth is that you never understood anything. You were too busy trying to decipher a little telugu book you had and were not even listening to what I was saying. So I knew better. > Now the paper you sent to the Bombay conference reads *by PVR Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Rath* but I have *not changed a single word that you wrote*. It is completely your paper and it was simply published. I DID NOT present that paper. I taught the Kala Chakra Dasha basics as it was taught in our tradition. Later in 2005, London I have taught the Kala Chakra Dasha completely to Gordon, Mariella and others. You can get the recordings. > Now you don’t even know what Kala Chakra Dasha I have taught and you have jumped to conclusions, made cheap remarks and are again doing the Hitler thing. Now you become Parashara champion and then you say D144 is for past life. Your interpretation will always be limited by your thinking and for some of the sloka you will never have an answer. Some shloka which you think are perfect and have vouched your entire faith faith on, are recorded incorrectly. How will you ever know? Meditation?? > > 2. If you knew from 2004 that I was wrong or that all of SJC is wrong and bad or evil or whatever that you are saying in your propaganda machine, why did you become CHAIRMAN of SJC from 2006 till 2009 (when you were asked to leave)? Whay have you done for SJC other than using it as a platform for self propaganda and aggrandizement? In fact you took the responsibility to simply destroy SJC. What enmity you have with Krishna? Why did you do this? Why did you not decline and give up the responsibility if you did not agree with SJC views? Why did you become chairman and do such an evil thing against SJC? > This has reference to a mail of yours dated 3-4 March which was shown to me today. I have been missing most of the mails due to my writing work. This has come as a big shock for me. Why did you do such a thing. If you were straight as you claim, you should have left SJC for all that you say. Not only have you shown that you are weak but also some very bad karma has been generated by this clandestine behavior. I will not hold this against you but expect you to make some amends. Talk to your guru about this before you continue in this tirade. > > If you think you can provoke me to start teaching here by making all those accusations, the tactics will not work. Your knowledge is not even half baked - its raw. I have done good work and made some serious progress in teaching the Jaimini scholars and now there is a Parashara Hora course. In another few years you will be lost in the darkness that you have chosen to be with. > > In the name of Brihaspati > I remain > Sanjay Rath > > Narasimha PVR Rao > Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:54 PM > vedic astrology ; ; JyotishWritings ; jhora > [vedic astrology] Too many options in JHora > > Dear Partha, > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. > > In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the confusion. > > In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is clear. > > * * * > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for several years now. > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > * * * > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > regards > > Partha > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Wow, Godwin's Law is prophetic!! --- On Sat, 3/20/10, Sanjay Rath <sjrath wrote: Sanjay Rath <sjrath Re: [vedic astrology] Too many options in JHora vedic astrology Saturday, March 20, 2010, 12:31 PM Narasimha, It is you who is corrupting the knowledge and are using tactics like Hitler's propaganda machine to constantly use my name for this purpose. Like Hitler you too have four planets in Aries with Lagnesh and the Sun is in the 7th house. These are the people who want to start a completely new world order. Now I need to try to put things once again in the right perspective as you are again twisting things - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 For the sake of Francois and other braves who made a statement > Just from jyotish perspective - Narasimha did not comment on the meaning of Sun in 7th house or in badhaka. You did not comment on the meaning of that same Mars in 8th house (I am using houses, I did mention it in my mail) with debilitated Saturn conjoining Mercury. OK you don't like the word curse, so call it some other name you like. Sarala yoga is when 8th lord is in 8th house but what happens if this is with a debilitated Saturn? OK you don't like Hitler - neither do I. Another combination - Both you and Hitler have Moon in bad house with a node: You have Moon in 6th with Rahu and Hitler had Moon in 3rd with Ketu. Hitler had Jupiter conjoining this Moon+Ketu, you have Jupiter in mutual aspect with the Moon+Rahu. This is in addition to - It is you who is corrupting the knowledge and are using tactics like Hitler's propaganda machine to constantly use my name for this purpose. Like Hitler you too have four planets in Aries with Lagnesh and the Sun is in the 7th house. These are the people who want to start a completely new world order. ** I did not see any comments on this from you** Now you say it should have been kept off the list. Did you tell that to Narasimha even once in the last three years? Why did you not ?? Because you were receiving a free software and had to *pay for it in some manner* - gratitude or say just support him. There is nothing wrong with that but then when he starts deriding someone, then that someone must have a right to defend himself. At that point you should be fair and either tell the one who started this to stop or keep quiet. In any case what I write is jyotish ... and I thought you have been quite an expert in it in these lists for the past few years being guided by Narasimha Francois CARRIERE Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:57 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora Correction of the last sentence, plus one more comment. vedic astrology , " Francois CARRIERE " <yl.car.fr wrote: > > > ============ In a lighter mood ================= > > For the sake of Francois and other braves who made a statement > > > > > Just from jyotish perspective - You did not comment [...] > > Members of this list are still waiting for Sarbani's answer on what is wrong with Narayana dasa in Jagannatha Hora. What else can be said when the programmers of two softwares _(one being Jagannatha Hora)_ honestly claimed _that_ you checked their work?... What is obvious, is that this discussion should have been done out of this list, in private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Pranams can we safely presume war has ended? Moon is in Rohini today If " they " ( as one mailer pvt says, you dare not use analogies/comparisons) we don't like " analogies. Sir, we have been bearing the brunt of thousands of useless analogies. You want aGood analogy to restart, then this is The best of all Analogies I can quote from scriptures We'll have to think of Gita ( Any Gita) and restart our astrology queries, posting !! Om Shakti and Om Shanti Thanks Yousuf -------------------------- Shree VaishamPãyana Uvacha Shruthvã Dharmãna Séshéna Pãvananicha Sarvashaha Yudhishtara Shanthanavam Punarévãbya Bashatha Sanjaya Uvacha Etra Yogeshwara Krishno Yatra Pãrtho Dhanur Dharaha Tatra Shri Vijayo Bhutir Dhruva Neetir Mathir Mama Shree Bhagavan Uvacha Ananya Shinttha Yantomã Yejanã Paryu Pãsathe Tesham Nityabhiyuktãnãm Yogakshemam Vahãmyaham 30 Paritranaya Sadhunam Vinãshãya Cha Dhushkrutãm Dharma Samsathãpanãrthãya Sambhavãmi Yuge Yuge ___ From Sanjayji Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora For the sake of Francois and other braves who made a statement > Just from jyotish perspective - Narasimha did not comment on the meaning of Sun in 7th house or in badhaka. You did not comment on the meaning of that same Mars in 8th house (I am using houses, I did mention it in my mail) with debilitated Saturn conjoining Mercury. OK you don't like the word curse, so call it some other name you like. Sarala yoga is when 8th lord is in 8th house but what happens if this is with a debilitated Saturn? OK you don't like Hitler - neither do I. Another combination - Both you and Hitler have Moon in bad house with a node: You have Moon in 6th with Rahu and Hitler had Moon in 3rd with Ketu. Hitler had Jupiter conjoining this Moon+Ketu, you have Jupiter in mutual aspect with the Moon+Rahu. This is in addition to - It is you who is corrupting the knowledge and are using tactics like Hitler's propaganda machine to constantly use my name for this purpose. Like Hitler you too have four planets in Aries with Lagnesh and the Sun is in the 7th house. These are the people who want to start a completely new world order. ** I did not see any comments on this from you** Now you say it should have been kept off the list. Did you tell that to Narasimha even once in the last three years? Why did you not ?? Because you were receiving a free software and had to *pay for it in some manner* - gratitude or say just support him. There is nothing wrong with that but then when he starts deriding someone, then that someone must have a right to defend himself. At that point you should be fair and either tell the one who started this to stop or keep quiet. In any case what I write is jyotish ... and I thought you have been quite an expert in it in these lists for the past few years being guided by Narasimha Francois CARRIERE Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:57 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora Correction of the last sentence, plus one more comment. vedic astrology , " Francois CARRIERE " <yl.car.fr wrote: > > > ============ In a lighter mood ================= > > For the sake of Francois and other braves who made a statement > > > > > Just from jyotish perspective - You did not comment [...] > > Members of this list are still waiting for Sarbani's answer on what is wrong with Narayana dasa in Jagannatha Hora. What else can be said when the programmers of two softwares _(one being Jagannatha Hora)_ honestly claimed _that_ you checked their work?... What is obvious, is that this discussion should have been done out of this list, in private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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