Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Namaste Sanjay, > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > if I ask him to transfer -- > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) * * * Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what he described. * * * This was my reply to you from August 2009: " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more time. Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " * * * Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote: > om gurave namah > Dear Raj > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > Jaya Bharati > Regards ~ > Sanjay Rath > http://srath.cpm > > Raj > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > Dear All, > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > Shishya. > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > the Shishya ? > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > Film, with No End! > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in > JHora ! > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. > > Raj Bhardwaj > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > described in the mail below. > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > several years now. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > occasion that > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > Astrology > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > intelligent > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > afresh! I > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > freely, not > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > concerned > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > seem to have > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > maternal) did not > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen > him > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received > from the > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > secrets, > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > irresponsibly. If > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > it would've > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > researcher > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > many things > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > serious > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > testing. > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague > logic that > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* > for > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > explicitly > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > glorious > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > revolutionized > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly > for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, > but I > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > could not say > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > not want to > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > master, I am > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > anger in my > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > so as to > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > things. We > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying > and even > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > reasonably > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > difference > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > room is > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > What we need > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > impassioned > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. > My > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > decade and > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > astrology in > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri > K.N. Rao > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the > focus to > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath > took the > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > brought > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > plant > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > weeds we > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > tree. > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > actual plant > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > knowledge > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Dear Chandan Singh I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is what I HAVE PROVED now. His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred to meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then has to see these lies in his name ... Shiva shows satya and He will Jai Bharati Sanjay Rath chandan s sabarwal Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership dear narasimha , i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy calculations and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! best regards, chandan singh. vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > * * * > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what he described. > > * * * > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more time. > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > * * * > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------------------- > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > ------------------------- > > vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > om gurave namah > > Dear Raj > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > Jaya Bharati > > Regards ~ > > Sanjay Rath > > http://srath.cpm > > > > Raj > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > Dear All, > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > Shishya. > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > the Shishya ? > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots > > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > Film, with No End! > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in > > JHora ! > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > several years now. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > intelligent > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > afresh! I > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > freely, not > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > concerned > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > seem to have > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > maternal) did not > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen > > him > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received > > from the > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > secrets, > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > it would've > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > researcher > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > many things > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > serious > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > testing. > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague > > logic that > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* > > for > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > explicitly > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > glorious > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > revolutionized > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly > > for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, > > but I > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > could not say > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > not want to > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > master, I am > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > anger in my > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > so as to > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > things. We > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying > > and even > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > reasonably > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > difference > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > room is > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > What we need > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > impassioned > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. > > My > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > decade and > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > astrology in > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri > > K.N. Rao > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the > > focus to > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath > > took the > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > brought > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > plant > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > weeds we > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > tree. > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > actual plant > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > knowledge > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > om gurave namah Dear Jaya Bharati Regards ~ Sanjay Rath http://srath.cpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Guru Dakshinaa is Dakshataa of the shishya which itself gives pleasure to the Guru. A real Guru should not expect more. And a good Shishya must never use foul words even for his/her former guru, even if the guru goes astray. Seeing the state of things at present, PVR's following statement is the best possible solution of the current turmoil : " I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you (ie, Sanjay Rath Ji) or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " Even if SJC does not send such a recommendation, PVR knows what SJC wants, perhaps. Hence Rao Ji can add a SJC option separately. It will ameliorate the situation. -VJ ================== === vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > * * * > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what he described. > > * * * > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more time. > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > * * * > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > - > > vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " sjrath@ wrote: > > om gurave namah > > Dear Raj > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > Jaya Bharati > > Regards ~ > > Sanjay Rath > > http://srath.cpm > > > > Raj > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > Dear All, > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > Shishya. > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of > > the Shishya ? > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots > > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a > > Film, with No End! > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in > > JHora ! > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE. > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god. > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly. > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > several years now. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > occasion that > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > Astrology > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > intelligent > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > afresh! I > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > freely, not > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > concerned > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not > > seem to have > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > maternal) did not > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen > > him > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received > > from the > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara > > secrets, > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, > > it would've > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst > > researcher > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so > > many things > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to > > serious > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical > > testing. > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague > > logic that > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* > > for > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes > > explicitly > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > glorious > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > revolutionized > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly > > for > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, > > but I > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > could not say > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did > > not want to > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > master, I am > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > anger in my > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly > > so as to > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > things. We > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying > > and even > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > reasonably > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > difference > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > room is > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > What we need > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and > > impassioned > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. > > My > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next > > decade and > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > astrology in > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri > > K.N. Rao > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the > > focus to > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath > > took the > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and > > brought > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the > > plant > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > weeds we > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a > > tree. > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the > > actual plant > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the > > knowledge > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Namaste, > > I wanted it to be made FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. > > That's it. I still remember the evening. Probably on the last but one day of I acknowledge the above. I do remember him talking to me about it. But Sanjay ji does have a penchant for theatrics and hungama. The facts are: (1) I always wanted the software to be free, like with everything else I do in Jyotish. (2) Sanjay ji wanted me to offer a lite and professional version. He even decided what should be in the lite version and the price of professional version. Being at loggerheads with him on charging fee for teaching at SJC (taking a fee for knowledge is absolutely against my core ideals), I made an exception atleast in the case of software. I conceded to his desire. (3) Later I put my foot down and indicated a strong desire that we should really make it free. However, I was in the middle of a software overhaul and wanted to finish it first. (4) Meanwhile, the above-mentioned phone call happened. I don't recall the exact content of the call, but all I remember is that I was pleased that he was finally on board. I worked harder on it, finished it and announced free 7.0 about a month later, on 2005 Feb 23. It is absolutely a fabrication that Sanjay ji had to " fight " with me to make JHora free. He is the sole reason I even sold a commercial version temporarily. He is either lying or imagining things. Just like he did when he wrote today " Narasimha/KN Rao camp " . I will not be responding to any further accusations in this thread. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - vedic astrology , " jk.dasgupta " <jk.dasgupta wrote: > > Dear Sarbani, > > That's it. I still remember the evening. Probably on the last but one day of > Mumbai conference, Sanjayji told us that he was going to ask PVR to make > Jhora free. In the evening in front of us, he made a call to PVR and had a > long discussion. After that he announced that Jhora was going to be free. > > Regards > > jk > > > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology ]On Behalf Of Sarbani Rath > 12 March 2010 18:13 > vedic astrology > RE: [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > Jai Ramakrishna > > A few clarifications for those one or two persons in this list who may be > interested in the reality. Akira Kurusowa in his epoch making film, > Roshomon, showed that truth has many versions. Here is another. The > following events took place in front of me and some other students: > > 1. Narasimha Rao had put a price on JHora like any other regular > commerial software. At the first level, in 2003, Sanjayji requested him to > introduce a special low rate for India. Many of us purchased the software > at > the low rate. In 2004, Sanjayji told him many time to make the software > free > and open source. But nothing materialised as Rao always said 'yes' and > then > never did anything. Then in January 2005, during the Annual Conference in > Mumbai, he finally called Rao one night and insisted that the announcement > be made within the next day or so, that the software is now free. After > this, it was immediately announced as free. Yes, of course it was a bit of > struggle. The time when Rao was not very responsive to making it free, > Sanjayji suggested many other models, one of which included the lite and > professional version models. Many issues such as standardised fees for > teaching etc was discussed, not only with Rao, but with other SJC gurus as > well, though nothing was put in practice. This was an attempt to > incorporate the needs and suggestions of many teachers who might have > needed > financial support. Evryone did not have cushy jobs in the corporate sector > in the US. Many of you may not know these facts. > > 2. The software did originate as a sort of guru dakshina between > Sanjayji and Rao, on the condition that Sanjayji taught him, and those > teachings would be translated into the software. In return the software > should be made available for the public. Sanjayji had suggested that the > money earned from the software before it was made free should be used by > Rao > as he saw fit, for the development of SJC activities in the US, like > conferences etc. Other students present during these discussions also gave > their suggestions. However nothing materialised. Finally, Sanjayji > suggested > to Rao, in 2006-7 to donate that money to the Jagannath Temple in Puri. We > dont know whether that happened or not. > > 3. Since 2007, Sanjayji has been advising his Jaimini students in the > classroom NOT to use the software as there were too many erros in it. In > fact, we make our dasa calculations by hand, even Narayana Dasa, or use > alternate software. Many of the lat-long of cities are wrong, as are other > technical details. It has been three years now that we have been bypassing > and moving away from JHora. Already 2-3 people are working on an > alternative > software, which we are going to offer free in SJC. But a little more time > is > required for that. But perhaps most of you are not aware what we have been > upto? Where we are, what we have been doing? > > 4. During the past 3 years, while Rao and his friends were busy jumping > up and down in the list making sanctimonous noises and mud slinging by > creating a holier-than-thou hubris, it gave Sanjayji the perfect space to > start his actual parampara teachings for which he had been waiting all his > life. Ask his band of 30-45 students who have been drinking in the nectar > of > the knowledge of the rishis since 2007. But I dont think even a single one > of them wasted their time being provocated or involved in this quagmire > which has been transpiring in this Vedic-Astrology list, nor are they > likely > to do so now. On behalf of all my colleagues I would like to thank you for > creating this distraction of maya, which enabled us to go underground and > dwell in the realm of pure knowledge. > > 5. What is happening now is good and perhaps necessary. Such has been > the norm in the past. Dr. Raman suffered silently in deep anguish when his > very famous student abused and maligned him. Perhaps he should have spoken > up. Who knows. Perhaps these mad diatribes in emails are necessary to > bring > about the necessary " cleansing " and " de-weeding " which is now necessary > for > an organisation to grow and move forward. > > I know that a 10 feet long response would be hurled at me laced with > twisted > logic and virulent suppressed aggression; but this is my last and only > email > on the subject. I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to any > further provocations that might be directed towards me. Namaste. > > At the lotus feet of Sri Ramakrishna, I remain, > > Sarbani Rath > > Homepage: <http://sarbani.com/> http://sarbani.com > > Sagittarius Publications: <http://sagittariuspublications.com/> > http://sagittariuspublications.com > > Sohamsa: <http://sohamsa.com/> http://sohamsa.com > > Sri Jagannath Centre: <http://.org/> http://.org > > chandan s sabarwal [wavelogix] > 12 March 2010 12:25 > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > dear sanjay ji, > namaste. > > maybe you do not have intentions of taking over jhora , but to the scores > of > upcoming jyotisas who look up to you , your hypothetical statements > unfortunately do not convey honest intentions. so i believe it you should > have been more mature on your part had you never said such hypothetical > statements in the first place. > > regdarding whether narasimha has given you dakshina or not , why bother > proving it to anyone? are you still bound to your ego that somehow wants > to > show that " sanjay rath is right " ? as you rightly said , shiva alone shows > and knows satya , let it be unto him and you can simply carry on doing > your > own karma while narasimha does his. > > maybe you owed narasimha something over from past previous lifes that you > simply repaid , so why now think whether dakshina was given or not? > > infact i dont know whats honestly in both of your hearts , but i do see > narasimha making an effort and keeping a software foc , speding soo much > time researching and trying to make it accurate itself shows no attachment > to anything else than jyotisa. > > do not mind my words , for i speak unbiased and sometimes its others who > make us realise. > > god bless, > chandan singh. > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Chandan Singh > > I am not interested in taking over the software. I wanted it to be made > FREE. I have fought to make it FREE in the past. > > I have no intention of taking over Jagannath Hora. I made a hypothetical > question and see the reaction. The question was based on one person saying > that Narasimha has given me guru dakshina. Oh no he has not. And that is > what I HAVE PROVED now. > > His guru said that *they will try to take it over*. If his guru referred > to me, then his Guru Manish Pandit is a sham. > > I have no hesitation in saying this about Manish Pandit if he referred > to > meas trying to take over Jagannath Hora. > > What is Satya Chandan? The one who teaches for years to another and then > has to see these lies in his name ... > > Shiva shows satya and He will > > > > Jai Bharati > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > chandan s sabarwal > > Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:06 AM > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Transferring JHora Ownership > > > > > > > > dear narasimha , > > > > i totally agree with your guruji and you must definately not give away > jhora . i understand that this software is more research based and aims at > refining jyotisa unlike other softwares which have no or buggy > calculations > and are loaded with pretyped interpretations on planetary positions. > > > > god knows how much more of satya is rahu yet to show !!! > > > > best regards, > > chandan singh. > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an > eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave > JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going > to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow > that. > I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for > the > Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all > your > effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create > confusion, > kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they > are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but > realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to > them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on > the > lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part > ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take > over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in > JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the > first > step of what he described. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for > some > more time. > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations > and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I > said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended > settings, > if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me > via > a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can > review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question > about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. > But, > you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > Spirituality: > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> > wrote: > > > > om gurave namah > > > > Dear Raj > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or > the > person to whom you gave it? > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner > of > Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such > things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the > software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So > how > is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very > untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts > right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling > lies easily. > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are > wrong. > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by > Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another > old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief > called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the > responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic > Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with > this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the > previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has > become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to > transfer -- > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this > list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > Regards ~ > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > http://srath.cpm > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who > seemingly > > > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and > > > > Shishya. > > > > > > > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the > following > > > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind. > > > > > > > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great > > > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of > Narsimha > > > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still. > > > > > > > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work > of > > > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the > > > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what > quantum > is > > > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle > of > > > > the Shishya ? > > > > > > > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out > > > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. > Lots > > > > of views and counter views are being generated about the > interpretation > > > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other > vidwana/sawant/scholar > > > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown > his > > > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all > are > > > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for > a > > > > Film, with No End! > > > > > > > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is > doing > > > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even > from > > > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his > > > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, > faces > > > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata > > > > > > > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can > change > > > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename > the > > > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the > Kunjis > > > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of > > > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone > > > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution > in > > > > JHora ! > > > > > > > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each > other's > > > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. > PEACE. > > > > > > > > Raj Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > <vedic astrology%40> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara. > > > > > > > > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For > > > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be > imperfect > > > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works > quite > > > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there > weren't > > > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is > reasonable > > > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of > his > > > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you > > > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as > > > > described in the mail below. > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Neelam ji, > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > occasion that > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > Astrology > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my > > > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him. > > > > > > > > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. > I > > > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his > student > in > > > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As > > > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will > teach > > > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started > noticing > > > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as > soon > as > > > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public > > > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself > that > I > > > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some > gems > > > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to > > > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During > > > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards > god. > > > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in > 2006, > I > > > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent > > > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a > > > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are > in > > > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still. > > > > > > > > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on > Sanjay > > > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand > for > > > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered > if > > > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by > > > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if > I > > > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being > > > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with > > > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek > > > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma > > > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at > > > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly. > > > > > > > > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding > slowly. > > > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > > > > Spirituality: > > > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one > > > > occasion that > > > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon! > > > > Astrology > > > > > > makes much sense, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the > > > > intelligent > > > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start > > > > afresh! I > > > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares > > > > freely, not > > > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is > > > > concerned > > > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did > not > > > > seem to have > > > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and > > > > maternal) did not > > > > > > > even consult him astrologically then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having > seen > > > > him > > > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he > received > > > > from the > > > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine > parampara > > > > secrets, > > > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " > > > > irresponsibly. If > > > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara > secrets, > > > > it would've > > > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the > worst > > > > researcher > > > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of > so > > > > many things > > > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps > to > > > > serious > > > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or > practical > > > > testing. > > > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and > vague > > > > logic that > > > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with > *ideas* > > > > for > > > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by > sometimes > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a > > > > glorious > > > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji > > > > revolutionized > > > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject > badly > > > > for > > > > > > > several years now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time > now, > > > > but I > > > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I > > > > could not say > > > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I > did > > > > not want to > > > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual > > > > master, I am > > > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or > > > > anger in my > > > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated > clearly > > > > so as to > > > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many > > > > things. We > > > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be > glorifying > > > > and even > > > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the > > > > difference > > > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the > > > > room is > > > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. > > > > What we need > > > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods > and > > > > impassioned > > > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of > interest. > > > > My > > > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the > next > > > > decade and > > > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on > > > > astrology in > > > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. > Sri > > > > K.N. Rao > > > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing > the > > > > focus to > > > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay > Rath > > > > took the > > > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini > and > > > > brought > > > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as > the > > > > plant > > > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the > > > > weeds we > > > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely > into > a > > > > tree. > > > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if > the > > > > actual plant > > > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of > the > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > Dear > > > > Jaya Bharati > > Regards ~ > > Sanjay Rath > > http://srath.cpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 For what it is worth: Hindu scriptures survived for ages not only because the Rishies and Munies were selfless beings, but most importantly, the scriptures were considered divine revelations (either direct from the Gods, or from supreme Gurus) and were considered sacred and could not be 1) altered by anyone, 2) claimed ownership of, 3) could not be not taken advantage of for selfish purposes, and most importantly, should be transmitted to generations as divine revelations. The oral tradition was instituted to make sure that this idea of divine revelation was adhered to. Here, Pandit Narasihma ji, in the same tradition, used a minute section of this divine knowledge to develop an astrology masterpiece using modern technology to benefit the community at large. To me, all this bickering about ownership of JHora is just appalling and is plain petty politics. Shame on those who are perpetuating this. Surendra **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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