Grah-phal planets : I do not agree with shri Varinder Joshi ji

[Guest guest]

Dear Punit ji ,

 

I am afraid I can't agree with what shri VarinderJoshi ji has said.

He suggests that an Upaya for a Grah-phal planet in the Janma Kundali

can , not only be done it must be done every year if it is a malefic.

My understanding is entirely different and based on the Lal Kitab.

Here I quote from the 1952 Urdu edition [ page 38 ] , the most

exhaustive and updated version of the Lal Kitab.

 

The book goes on to explain which is a Rasi-phal planet and says,

 

" Jis ke bure asar se bachne ke liye shaq ka fayada uthaya ja sakta

hai "

 

next the book explains which planet would be considered as a Grah-

phal planet and says,

 

" Is ke vipreet ya upar kahi hui halat ke ulat haal par jab ki woh

uchcha-neech ghar ka, ya apane ghar ka , pakke ghar ka sabit ho to

woh grah grah-phal ya pakki halat ka hoga , jis ka asar hamesha ke

liye qayam ho chuka hai / uske asar ko tabdeel karne ki koshish

karna bemaani balki insani taaqat se bahar hogi / sirf khas-khas

khuda raseedi aur mahdood hastiyan hi rekh mein mekh [ surya mesha

rashi mein khana no 1 ] mein qaida laga sakti hain./ magar woh bhi

akhir tabadala hi hogi /

 

and then talking about ` tabadala ` it gives the example of Babar and

Humayun and finally says :

" yah haalat bhi unki khudai shareeq hone ki hogi / koi na koi

tabadala diya gaya , magar grah-phal phir bhi na tala / "

 

I have quoted these sentences from the book to suggest that we , not

enlightened godmen, can not do any upaya for a grah-phal planet , nor

like Babar do a` tabadala ` either , ` tabadala `meaning take someone

else's misfortune on ourselves. Therefore I believe that there is no

Upaya for a Grah-phal planet in the Janma kundali . Only an

enlightened sadhu or faqeer can do some thing about it.

 

The example shri Varinder Joshi ji has given of Rahu in the 11th

house may not be for a grah-phal because only Saturn and Jupiter have

been mentioned as grah-phal planets if in the 11th house.

 

With regards,

 

upadhyay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lalkitab , Punit Pandey <pandeypunit>

wrote:

> With thanks to Mr. Varinder Joshi, I am posting his reply here. I

think that would be useful.

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> For this, you have to decide and know about the planets in Grah

Phal and Rashi Phal in detail. For the Janam Kundali, the planets

that are malefic and in Grah Phal, the upaya should be done every

year. The Varash Phal planets are considered to be in Rashi phal.

After deciding drishti and other placements, you can do the upaya for

varshaphal if needed. At the same time, if a planet is in Grah Phal

in the janam kundali, then that upaya is also needed. Just one upaya

of a malefic planet in the Janam Kundali, generally does not solve

the problems for life particularly if it is of Grah Phal. For

example, if Rahu is in the eleventh house, it requires a remedial

measure every year - Four dry coconuts and four pieces of lead in

running water, every year. And in Varash phal, if the same Rahu comes

to the first house then upaya for this will also be needed. Varinder

Joshi

>

>

> Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:

> Friends,

>

> This question about when to perform a remedial measure for the

natal chart and when to perform the measure for the annual progressed

horoscope is not really very easy but an excellent question,

nevertheless. Upadhyay Jee has also noted below that " it is not as

simple as it may sound. " I tend to agree with his (Upadhyay Jee's)

answer. Someone has asked somewhat similar question in the Discussion

Forum at www.OriginalLalKitab.com and Varinder Joshi has answered

that question there. His explanation takes us into the right

direction. Basically, it boils down to " LalKitab grammar " - a good

understanding of GrahaPhal and RashiPhal certainly helps in unfolding

the mystery. All of a suddent this is begining to make sense.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Rajinder Bhatia

>

>

> upadhyay_iitd <upadhyay_iitd> wrote:

> dear friends ,

>

> I am speaking for myself alone. In brief while prescribing upaya I

> follow this routine [ a ] draw the Varsh Phal chart [ b ] determine

> the planet/planets which are responsible for the problem , it is

not

> as simple as it may sound ,the planet/planets that are suspect have

> to be seen in relation to the other planet placements [ c ] if

there

> is any ambiguity regarding the rogue planet/planets confirm from

the

> querrist through qustions regarding his other family members , the

> orientation of the house he lives in or the surroundings of his

house

> etc.[ d ]once the planet/planets have been identified , their

> placement context understood ,then comes the most difficult part of

> the whole exercise namely - prescribing the upaya. I have to then

> decide which of the SIX forms of upaya has to be prescribed for

that

> paricular planet.This is done keeping in mind the entire grammar of

> Lal Kitab , e.g. rashi phal-grah phal factor , aspect

factor ,friend-

> enemy factor etc..its a long list.

>

> Now coming to the querries shri Vinod Kumar ji has raised ;

>

> [ a ]Have the upaya to be repeated ? No .

> The upaya are Varsh Phal specific for a particular problem and

> hold good for that year. If the planet is placed in the same house

> again , in the Varsh Phal , a few years later , and the querrist

gets

> the same problem again even then the upaya may not be the same

> because the placement of the other planets is not likely to be the

> same that year too.

>

> [ b ] There are at least 12 upaya mentioned for the Mars in the 4th

> house depending on the problems arising out of Mars in that house.

> The formulations of these 12 upaya might run into a couple of

> dozens . The upaya shri Vinod ji has mentioned , in his example ,is

> advised only for the 'progeny problem' depending on whether the

other

> planetary placement demands it . Therefore it is extremely

dangerous

> to pick up stock-upaya from a book and prescribe it without

> understanding the grammar of the Lal Kitab.

>

> [ c ] The planetary time scale is a rough guide to expect the

results

> of the planet , good or bad ,in our life. Yes it does help us

> appreciate the intensity of the problem when prescribing the upaya.

>

> with regards,

>

> upadhyay

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Upadhyay Ji,

 

I agree with you. It is what I understood from Lal Kitab. I didn't

find the things told by Varinder ji in Lal Kitab. I think Varinder ji

(I guess he is the member of this group) or Rajinder ji can explain

it. I request Varinder ji to quote the source of this information or

explain why this discripency is there.

 

Regards,

 

Punit Pandey

 

lalkitab , " Suresh Upadhyay "

<upadhyay_iitd> wrote:

>

> Dear Punit ji ,

>

> I am afraid I can't agree with what shri VarinderJoshi ji has

said.

> He suggests that an Upaya for a Grah-phal planet in the Janma

Kundali

> can , not only be done it must be done every year if it is a

malefic.

> My understanding is entirely different and based on the Lal Kitab.

> Here I quote from the 1952 Urdu edition [ page 38 ] , the most

> exhaustive and updated version of the Lal Kitab.

>

> The book goes on to explain which is a Rasi-phal planet and says,

>

> " Jis ke bure asar se bachne ke liye shaq ka fayada uthaya ja sakta

> hai "

>

> next the book explains which planet would be considered as a Grah-

> phal planet and says,

>

> " Is ke vipreet ya upar kahi hui halat ke ulat haal par jab ki woh

> uchcha-neech ghar ka, ya apane ghar ka , pakke ghar ka sabit ho to

> woh grah grah-phal ya pakki halat ka hoga , jis ka asar hamesha ke

> liye qayam ho chuka hai / uske asar ko tabdeel karne ki koshish

> karna bemaani balki insani taaqat se bahar hogi / sirf khas-khas

> khuda raseedi aur mahdood hastiyan hi rekh mein mekh [ surya mesha

> rashi mein khana no 1 ] mein qaida laga sakti hain./ magar woh bhi

> akhir tabadala hi hogi /

>

> and then talking about ` tabadala ` it gives the example of Babar

and

> Humayun and finally says :

> " yah haalat bhi unki khudai shareeq hone ki hogi / koi na koi

> tabadala diya gaya , magar grah-phal phir bhi na tala / "

>

> I have quoted these sentences from the book to suggest that we ,

not

> enlightened godmen, can not do any upaya for a grah-phal planet ,

nor

> like Babar do a` tabadala ` either , ` tabadala `meaning take

someone

> else's misfortune on ourselves. Therefore I believe that there is

no

> Upaya for a Grah-phal planet in the Janma kundali . Only an

> enlightened sadhu or faqeer can do some thing about it.

>

> The example shri Varinder Joshi ji has given of Rahu in the 11th

> house may not be for a grah-phal because only Saturn and Jupiter

have

> been mentioned as grah-phal planets if in the 11th house.

>

> With regards,

>

> upadhyay

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

lalkitab , Punit Pandey <pandeypunit>

> wrote:

> > With thanks to Mr. Varinder Joshi, I am posting his reply here. I

> think that would be useful.

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> > For this, you have to decide and know about the planets in Grah

> Phal and Rashi Phal in detail. For the Janam Kundali, the planets

> that are malefic and in Grah Phal, the upaya should be done every

> year. The Varash Phal planets are considered to be in Rashi phal.

> After deciding drishti and other placements, you can do the upaya

for

> varshaphal if needed. At the same time, if a planet is in Grah Phal

> in the janam kundali, then that upaya is also needed. Just one

upaya

> of a malefic planet in the Janam Kundali, generally does not solve

> the problems for life particularly if it is of Grah Phal. For

> example, if Rahu is in the eleventh house, it requires a remedial

> measure every year - Four dry coconuts and four pieces of lead in

> running water, every year. And in Varash phal, if the same Rahu

comes

> to the first house then upaya for this will also be needed.

Varinder

> Joshi

> >

> >

> > Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:

> > Friends,

> >

> > This question about when to perform a remedial measure for the

> natal chart and when to perform the measure for the annual

progressed

> horoscope is not really very easy but an excellent question,

> nevertheless. Upadhyay Jee has also noted below that " it is not as

> simple as it may sound. " I tend to agree with his (Upadhyay Jee's)

> answer. Someone has asked somewhat similar question in the

Discussion

> Forum at www.OriginalLalKitab.com and Varinder Joshi has answered

> that question there. His explanation takes us into the right

> direction. Basically, it boils down to " LalKitab grammar " - a good

> understanding of GrahaPhal and RashiPhal certainly helps in

unfolding

> the mystery. All of a suddent this is begining to make sense.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Rajinder Bhatia

> >

> >

> > upadhyay_iitd <upadhyay_iitd> wrote:

> > dear friends ,

> >

> > I am speaking for myself alone. In brief while prescribing upaya

I

> > follow this routine [ a ] draw the Varsh Phal chart [ b ]

determine

> > the planet/planets which are responsible for the problem , it is

> not

> > as simple as it may sound ,the planet/planets that are suspect

have

> > to be seen in relation to the other planet placements [ c ] if

> there

> > is any ambiguity regarding the rogue planet/planets confirm from

> the

> > querrist through qustions regarding his other family members ,

the

> > orientation of the house he lives in or the surroundings of his

> house

> > etc.[ d ]once the planet/planets have been identified , their

> > placement context understood ,then comes the most difficult part

of

> > the whole exercise namely - prescribing the upaya. I have to then

> > decide which of the SIX forms of upaya has to be prescribed for

> that

> > paricular planet.This is done keeping in mind the entire grammar

of

> > Lal Kitab , e.g. rashi phal-grah phal factor , aspect

> factor ,friend-

> > enemy factor etc..its a long list.

> >

> > Now coming to the querries shri Vinod Kumar ji has raised ;

> >

> > [ a ]Have the upaya to be repeated ? No .

> > The upaya are Varsh Phal specific for a particular problem

and

> > hold good for that year. If the planet is placed in the same

house

> > again , in the Varsh Phal , a few years later , and the querrist

> gets

> > the same problem again even then the upaya may not be the same

> > because the placement of the other planets is not likely to be

the

> > same that year too.

> >

> > [ b ] There are at least 12 upaya mentioned for the Mars in the

4th

> > house depending on the problems arising out of Mars in that

house.

> > The formulations of these 12 upaya might run into a couple of

> > dozens . The upaya shri Vinod ji has mentioned , in his

example ,is

> > advised only for the 'progeny problem' depending on whether the

> other

> > planetary placement demands it . Therefore it is extremely

> dangerous

> > to pick up stock-upaya from a book and prescribe it without

> > understanding the grammar of the Lal Kitab.

> >

> > [ c ] The planetary time scale is a rough guide to expect the

> results

> > of the planet , good or bad ,in our life. Yes it does help us

> > appreciate the intensity of the problem when prescribing the

upaya.

> >

> > with regards,

> >

> > upadhyay

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Respected Fellow LalKitabists,

There is no denying the fact and Upadhyay Jee has quoted from LalKitab about GrahPhal. However, remember that we are quoting from a book published over fifty years ago. Pandit Roop Chand Jee, Varinder's grandfather, continued to practice and modify LalKitab methodology right till his last day on this earth. Varinder has quoted based on the written material from Pt Roop Chand Jee.

I am sure that all of you have noticed that despite some planets being in Graha Phal, yet LalKitab specifies remedial measures for them. Based on my personal experience, Pandit jee had advised my younger brother back in 1970 to perform those remedial measures every year to minimize the effects of a couple of GrahPhal planets.

 

However, it is up to you to take it or leave it; please use your judgement.

Respectfully,

Rajinder Bhatia

Upadhyay Ji,I agree with you. It is what I understood from Lal Kitab. I didn't find the things told by Varinder ji in Lal Kitab. I think Varinder ji (I guess he is the member of this group) or Rajinder ji can explain it. I request Varinder ji to quote the source of this information or explain why this discripency is there.Regards,Punit Pandey

 

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[Guest guest]

I am little confused here, correct me if i am wrong.

If the LalKitab followers are practicing the teachings of the LalKitab

(1952 edition) and the material written later by Roop Chand Ji

contradicts it, then how can a LalKitab practitioner can prescribe

the right Upayays,especially when the modified material is not

available for anyone to refer to.

I think the Joshi family should make an effort to publish the Lal

Kitab with the updated material written By Roop Chand Ji, so that

people could benefit from the powerfull Upayays of Lak Kitab.

I think that is the reason so many crooks are claiming to be the Lal

Kitab originaors, because for an ordinary young person who wants to

learn lalkitab its very hard to distinguish who is the real Lal Kitab

author.

Again I am amazed at the time, effort and pain that Upadhyay Ji is

putting to help the mankind.

Upadhyay Ji is the true follower of Lal Kitab as he is not expecting

anything in return.

 

Regards

Gullu

 

lalkitab , Rajinder Bhatia

<rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:

> Respected Fellow LalKitabists,

> There is no denying the fact and Upadhyay Jee has quoted from

LalKitab about GrahPhal. However, remember that we are quoting from a

book published over fifty years ago. Pandit Roop Chand Jee,

Varinder's grandfather, continued to practice and modify LalKitab

methodology right till his last day on this earth. Varinder has

quoted based on the written material from Pt Roop Chand Jee.

> I am sure that all of you have noticed that despite some planets

being in Graha Phal, yet LalKitab specifies remedial measures for

them. Based on my personal experience, Pandit jee had advised my

younger brother back in 1970 to perform those remedial measures every

year to minimize the effects of a couple of GrahPhal planets.

>

> However, it is up to you to take it or leave it; please use your

judgement.

>

> Respectfully,

> Rajinder Bhatia

>

> Upadhyay Ji,

>

> I agree with you. It is what I understood from Lal Kitab. I didn't

find the things told by Varinder ji in Lal Kitab. I think Varinder ji

(I guess he is the member of this group) or Rajinder ji can explain

it. I request Varinder ji to quote the source of this information or

> explain why this discripency is there.

>

> Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

>

>

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