lalkitabee ji About the case of MR gupta ji (mrgee)

April 18, 2005

Respected Booshanpriya ji

As u said That:-[ 1 ] Saturn is the janma waqt ka grah , in other

words it is grah phal ka grah. Therefore where it is placed [ 2nd

house ] here it will be considered as of grah phal. And upaya

suggested for Saturn in the 2nd house will not be right.

Answer is :- 2nd main mushtarka grah magal nek ke liye jaayain ya

mangal bad ke iska faisla to 2nd main 4 planets ki kheench taan main

se hi nikaalna padegaa. Shani good to mangal nek ko jagah milegi

shani bad to mangal bad ko.Lekin sawal to shani ke janmvaqt ka grah

hone per atak gayaa. To yahi main kehna chahoonga ki shani janm vakt

aur janmdin dono ka grah hai isliye bura nahi hoga lekin bura ker

liya ja saktaa hai.Jiske karan mangal nek hota hua bhi mangal bad ban

sakta hai.Isiliye iska upay likha gaya.Kyonki khana no. 2 ka asar

khana no. 8 ke asar se juda nahi aur khana no. 12 ka planet guru

khana no. 2 ke asar se juda nahi reh sakta.Isliye khana no. 2 ke

major bad planet ko shubh karnaa jaroori hai taki shubh asar guru ko

miley ya khana no. 12 ko miley .Aur jo aapne likha hai ki khana no. 9

ka saturn maantey hue upay karna hoga kyonki khana no. 9 Aagaz e

kismat hai , to mere hisab se aap janm vaqt ke grah main kismat ka

grah dhoondh rahi hain. Vo baat thik hai ki janm vaqt ka grah kismat

ka grah hota hai, lekin kismat se abhipray khana no. 9 mat liziye

kyonki lalkitab main to ye bhi likha hai ki " ghar chal ker jo aavey

dozey kismat ka ban jaata hai " Aur oosri taraf lalkitab main hi likha

hai ki

Jab 9,3,5 khali ho to aaghaaz e kismat khana no. 2 ki marfat jagegaa.

AAp lalkitab main AAGHAAZ E KISMAT ka heading padhain.

Ab sawal ye hai ki no.2 se nek kismat jagegi ya badkismat. Ye faisla

bhi shani ki nek ya bad halat per hi ho saktaa hai.Aur shani ki 2nd

main kya importance hai main bol hi chuka hoon. Mere vichar se aap

kismat ke grah ki talaash ki tartib ko padhain aur for khana no.2 ke

heading ko padhain to sabhi kuchh clear ho jayegaa.

2.2 ]In order to ascertain which planet is causing Pitri-rin there

are three conditions laid down in the Lal Kitab. All the three

conditions have to be necessarily fulfilled before a planet is

declared to be causing a Pitri rin. I wonder if Mars fulfills all

those three conditions to be declared as a planet of rin. I worked it

out and it doesn't.

ANSWER :- Yes u can see in 2nd conditions of PITRI RIN & at 3rd stage

2,5,9,12 ki mandi halat ko dekho.How r these khana no. bad. I will

reply after if u feel confusion.But do not forget to read jad (ROOT) ki adla

badli.that

is y i found mangal rin grah & suggested remedy.Plz read pitri rin ke

grah again.

But for god sake do not mix it with vaidic jyotish.I cant disscus

with u by that cryteria. & we must clear doubts about the janmvaqt ke grah &

janmdin ke grah 1st of all.U must read again about this & must observe example

which has given in LK

With regards

Lalkitabee

lalkitab , bhooshan priya <bhooshanpriya>

wrote:

>

> Dear Lalkitabee ji,

>

Thanks for your kind words and the regard you have for me. Yes ,

both of us might disagree on certain issues ; but that is the

essence of all academic discussions. Differences open up new insights

and possibilities , some thing we all look forward to.

>

> Let me first explain as to why I prefer working out the

Bhavspashth. You know that all the people born under a lagna will

have identical planetary position , and that means roughly two

hours. Now all the people born during those two hours will have an

identical kundali. But they never have an identical life.

Bhavspashtha is one of the methods to further narrow down the

nativity , thus distinguishing one from another. Bhavspashtha is the

most scientific method known so far . And that is why I consider it a

very essential part of any astrological exercise , including when

working with Lal Kitab also. Before the computers came in , working

out bhavspashtha was a long and tedious process. Most of us who were

introduced to the Vedic system , some 25 years ago, had to do all the

calculations manually.

>

> Same with working out the strength of a planet and a Bhav { or LK

khana }. This is the most authentic and scientifically acceptable

procedure to assess the strength of a planet or that of a Bhav. If a

strong planet acts malefic , or is made malefic through actions , the

damage incurred will be greater , similarly if it acts as benefic in

a strong Bhav the results would be far beyond expectations.

>

> Now , coming to why the Lal Kitab doesn't insist on these

procedures. Pt. Roop Chand ji said, " rasi chhor nakchhatra

bhulaya , na hi koi panchang liya " not because he thought these

things to be irrelevant , instead he tried to simplify the process.

He did consider both the nakchhatra and the rasi relevant – a point

of separate debate which I could take up later on.

>

> Thus Pt. Roop Chand ji while simplifying the system , introduced a

yet another difficult dimension called ` teve ki durusti'. Through

his `teve ki durusti' he again was trying to find where the planet

was placed , in which Bhav or Khana as he called . The process in a

lay men's language is known as ` grah kis khane mein bol raha hai'.

For this he not only took the nek or bad nishaniyan of the planet ,

he also took the help of palmistry.

>

> At least I am not good in palmistry , and I know most of those

practicing astrology aren't either. In the absence of Pt. Roop Chand

ji's intuition or `sidhdhi' or his ability , the best we should do is

to fall back on scientifically acceptable methods for help when

ascertaining the nature and strength of a planet.

>

> Now , combining the two systems ie. Vedic and Lal Kitab . At least

I do not find the two systems either contradictory or working at

cross purposes. Instead I find them complimentary to each other. I

use Lal Kitab upaya instead of Vedic upaya of mantra , pooja , vrat

and gems. Because Lal Kitab upaya are simple , less expensive , less

time consuming and at the same time as effective as the Vedic upaya.

>

> Having explained my position on Vedic and Lal Kitab, I next answer

your questions.

>

> I had said :

>

> [ 1 ] He was born at night of kartik Krishna 14th, hence Saturn

becomes the planet of birth { janma waqt ka grah } and therefore `

kismet ka grah'

>

> [ 2 ] The upaya of Saturn , if needed , will be done assuming that

the Saturn is in the 9th house.

>

> question : 1. how u assumed that saturn is able to remedy & will

be assumed in 9th. According to my analyzation it is not bad but can

be made?

>

> Answer : I had said that Saturn is the kismet ka grah. And if the

upaya is needed { I didn't say that the upaya is needed } Saturn

would be assumed in the 9th house. Why ? The answer is in the book

under the heading `janmadin aur janma waqt ka talluk'

>

> I had said :

>

> [ 3 ] Perhaps chandra do mein bolega . If it is so , the Lal Kitab

says " dhan aur mata dono mande , sukh ke bajaye dukh , rat din dono

waqt dukhi , aqla madad na de "

>

> [ 4 ] Perhaps mercury teen mein bolega . If that is so , you know

how bad mercury would be.

>

> Question : 2.Why Moon khana no. 2 main bolegaa & budh 3 main bolega?

>

> Answer : I had used the word ` perhaps'. Since I found that moon

moves to the 2nd house and the mercury to the 3rd after

bhavspashtha , it is fair to suspect that these two planets might

give their results in those houses. I have already quoted the book

for moon in the 2nd. Now if I accept the mercury in the 2nd , the

book says :

>

> " aath chhatve grah baitha koi , bharata tabela kanya ho "

>

> izzat guru nau barah deta , ayu mata ki lambi ho "

>

> shani mile to sanp ho urata , saath bhala na Sali ho "

>

> He has guru in the 12th and shani is with budh in 2nd, `sanp ho

urata' the ichhadhari sanp , a very auspicious combination. Therefore

it is fair to do the rethinking. Isn't it?

>

> I had said :

>

> And once mercury is bad , rahu and ketu will be bad too. ` rahu

and ketu dono budh ke dayare mein chalte hain.'

>

> Question : 3.Aur aapne yeh kaise maan liya ki rahu ketu budh ke

dayre main hi bolenge kyonki budh kya zero ki shape main mila aapko?

>

> Answer :

>

> I have found it to be invariably true if mercury is destroyed , for

whatever reason, Rahu and Ketu too need careful looking into. It was

a suggestion that verify the nature of Rahu and Ketu , they too might

be bad.

>

I had said :

>

> Mars will be considered as bad because sun and Saturn are together.

>

> Question : 4.Why mars will be consider as bad due to togetherness

of sun &

> saturn, U can see there sun + budh also

>

> Answer :

>

> Sun is at 15-27' , Saturn is at 12-29' and mercury is at 25-27'.

Sun and the Saturn are close together where as Mercury is far away.

Hence Sun and the Saturn would be considered as together, where as

considering Sun and Mercury together will be far-fetched. And

therefore Mars would need attention too.

>

> Having answered your questions , I turn to your Upaya.

>

> Upaya 1 & 2 for mercury in 2nd ; upaya 3 for ketu in 8th ; upaya

4 for Mars rin , upaya 5 for Saturn in the 2nd and upaya 6 for

Jupiter in 12th .

>

> Now my observations :

>

> [ 1 ] Saturn is the janma waqt ka grah , in other words it is grah

phal ka grah. Therefore where it is placed [ 2nd house ] here it

will be considered as of grah phal. And upaya suggested for Saturn in

the 2nd house will not be right.

>

> This is exactly what I had said , while devising an upaya for

Saturn you have to keep in mind the ` talluk of janma din ka grah and

jnma waqt ka grah. Therefore the upaya for Saturn will have to the

one assuming that the Saturn is in the 9th house.

>

> [ 2 ]In order to ascertain which planet is causing Pitri-rin there

are three conditions laid down in the Lal Kitab. All the three

conditions have to be necessarily fulfilled before a planet is

declared to be causing a Pitri rin. I wonder if Mars fulfills all

those three conditions to be declared as a planet of rin. I worked it

out and it doesn't.

>

> With lots of love and regards,

>

> Priya

>

> Messenger - Communicate instantly... " Ping " your friends

today! Download Messenger Now

April 18, 2005

Priya Jee and Pt Lalkitabee Jee,

With due apologies. may I interject here? In Mr. MR Gupta's case, Saturn is not the "janma din ka grah." And here is my rationale for this. He was born before Sunrise ( 3:15 AM, I think.) which was still Friday. LalKitab follows the almanacs of Pt Devi Dayal according to which the "astrological day" was still Friday - It is only in the West that the day and the date combination changes after 12 O'clock midnight, but in the traditional Indian system, the day does not change till after the Sunrise. That is one of the areas we all have to be careful about when ascertaining "janma din ka grah." I have made this same mistake in the past, so I am bringing this up.

Another issue which I know is not clearly defined but is hinted at, is about Pitri Rin etc. That MUST be decided by taking into consideration the horoscopes of the other members of the family also. Otherwise, one is likely to make a mistake and prescribe wrong measures which Gupta Jee is already a victim of.

Priya Jee, your knowledge of both the LalKitab system and the Vedic astrology is impressive. LalKitabee Jee is progressing very fast to becoming a LalKitab scholar. However, with due respect to both of you, I thought I'd throw in my observations. Please do correct me, if you feel that I have made a mistake here and please do accept my apologies in advance.

Best regards.

Respectfully,

Rajinder Bhatia

lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:

Respected Booshanpriya jiAs u said That:-[ 1 ] Saturn is the janma waqt ka grah , in other words it is grah phal ka grah. Therefore where it is placed [ 2nd house ] here it will be considered as of grah phal. And upaya suggested for Saturn in the 2nd house will not be right.

Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.