The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00 pm

LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

75°8′52.67″W

(Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

 

 

--

Warmly,

Jorge Angelino

http://satva.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello my dear Jorge,

 

I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at all.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

-

Jorge Angelino

samva ;

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

 

 

Dear Friends,

 

The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00 pm

LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

75°8′52.67″W

(Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

 

--

Warmly,

Jorge Angelino

http://satva.blogspot.com/

 

[Guest guest]

My dear Vinod,

 

I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

 

Thanks anyway for expressing it.

 

Best wishes,

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

 

> Hello my dear Jorge,

>

> I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at all.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Jorge Angelino

> samva ;

> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

>

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00 pm

> LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

> 75°8′52.67″W

> (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

>

> --

> Warmly,

> Jorge Angelino

> http://satva.blogspot.com/

>

>

 

 

 

 

--

Jorge Angelino

http://satva.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello my dear Jorge,

 

There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts the whole world its

tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the planet representing its

status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This chart is against the

fundamental principles of SA.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

-

Jorge Angelino

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

 

 

My dear Vinod,

 

I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

 

Thanks anyway for expressing it.

 

Best wishes,

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

 

> Hello my dear Jorge,

>

> I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at all.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Jorge Angelino

> samva ;

> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

>

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00 pm

> LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

> 75°8′52.67″W

> (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

>

> --

> Warmly,

> Jorge Angelino

> http://satva.blogspot.com/

>

>

 

--

Jorge Angelino

http://satva.blogspot.com/

 

[Guest guest]

My dear Vinod,

 

What can I say against your wise statements...thank you anyway!

 

However, I have studied it already and extensively and I have seen that it

explains US completely.

 

It is just a matter of patience and see it, by going through some important

events.

 

Best wishes,

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:48 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

 

> Hello my dear Jorge,

>

> There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts the whole world

> its tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the planet representing

> its status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This chart is against

> the fundamental principles of SA.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Jorge Angelino

>

> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

> Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

>

>

> My dear Vinod,

>

> I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

>

> Thanks anyway for expressing it.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> > Hello my dear Jorge,

> >

> > I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at all.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > Jorge Angelino

> > samva ;

> > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> > The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

> >

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00

> pm

> > LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> > Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

> > 75°8′52.67″W

> > (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

> >

> > --

> > Warmly,

> > Jorge Angelino

> > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> >

> >

>

> --

> Jorge Angelino

> http://satva.blogspot.com/

>

> --

Jorge Angelino

http://satva.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello my dear Jorge,

 

I see a chart with SA principles and objectively.

 

I have strong views about SAMVA USA chart after studying it over a couple of

years and exploring other charts for over a decade.

 

Previously, you were holding so strong views about 2nd July, 1776, chart. Now

you have found this chart and you feel strongly about this.

 

Best wishes to you.

 

 

 

 

 

-

Jorge Angelino

; samva

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:27 PM

Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

 

 

My dear Vinod,

 

What can I say against your wise statements...thank you anyway!

 

However, I have studied it already and extensively and I have seen that it

explains US completely.

 

It is just a matter of patience and see it, by going through some important

events.

 

Best wishes,

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:48 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

 

> Hello my dear Jorge,

>

> There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts the whole world

> its tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the planet representing

> its status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This chart is against

> the fundamental principles of SA.

>

> Best wishes.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Jorge Angelino

>

> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

> Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

>

>

> My dear Vinod,

>

> I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

>

> Thanks anyway for expressing it.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> > Hello my dear Jorge,

> >

> > I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at all.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > Jorge Angelino

> > samva ;

> > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> > The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

> >

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00

> pm

> > LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> > Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

> > 75°8′52.67″W

> > (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

> >

> > --

> > Warmly,

> > Jorge Angelino

> > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> >

> >

>

> --

> Jorge Angelino

> http://satva.blogspot.com/

>

> --

Jorge Angelino

http://satva.blogspot.com/

 

[Guest guest]

My dear Vinod,

 

I understand...I have not so much planets in fixed signs, so I am always

open to better solutions.

 

The reason I have posted in your list and in SAMVA list is just to let all

the members know about a new USA chart.

 

Thank you for letting me post in your Satva101 list.

 

Same is not happening in your SAMVA list...for some reason my message is

still blocked.

 

What can we do...nothing!

 

Best wishes,

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:22 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

 

> Hello my dear Jorge,

>

> I see a chart with SA principles and objectively.

>

> I have strong views about SAMVA USA chart after studying it over a couple

> of years and exploring other charts for over a decade.

>

> Previously, you were holding so strong views about 2nd July, 1776, chart.

> Now you have found this chart and you feel strongly about this.

>

> Best wishes to you.

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Jorge Angelino

> ; samva

> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:27 PM

> Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

>

>

> My dear Vinod,

>

> What can I say against your wise statements...thank you anyway!

>

> However, I have studied it already and extensively and I have seen that it

> explains US completely.

>

> It is just a matter of patience and see it, by going through some

> important

> events.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:48 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> > Hello my dear Jorge,

> >

> > There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts the whole

> world

> > its tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the planet

> representing

> > its status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This chart is

> against

> > the fundamental principles of SA.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > Jorge Angelino

> >

> > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

> > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

> >

> >

> > My dear Vinod,

> >

> > I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

> >

> > Thanks anyway for expressing it.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

> >

> > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > >

> > > I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at all.

> > >

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Jorge Angelino

> > > samva ;

> > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> > > The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention please)

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Friends,

> > >

> > > The United States of America were born on September, 5, 1774, at 12:00

> > pm

> > > LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> > > Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°56′52.27″N

> > > 75°8′52.67″W

> > > (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

> > >

> > > --

> > > Warmly,

> > > Jorge Angelino

> > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Jorge Angelino

> > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> >

> > --

> Jorge Angelino

> http://satva.blogspot.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jorge,

 

On February 6, 2008, I wrote an article on my blog titled:

" Birth of a nation – a study of seven major events in US history, "

where I offer the following information about this event you suggest

and my conclusion:

 

======

2. The Articles of Association in 1774 was a coming together of the

colonies for the purpose of pooling their interests to strengthen

their bargaining power vis-a-vis Great Britain. At this stage, they

still conducted themselves as subjects of the Crown. Their assembly

was named the (first) Continental Congress. The union of the colonies

was at this point only an informal association.

 

<snip>

 

2. Articles of Association in 1774

The Articles of Association were petitions of grievances against

Great Britain by Twelve Colonies and a compact among them to

collectively impose economic sanctions to pressure a resolution. The

Articles were drafted by the First Continental Congress in 1774 and

were an important formative document in the history of the United

States that perhaps hastened the American Revolution, though they

were intended instead to alter Britain's policies towards the

colonies without severing allegiance. While Abraham Lincoln mentioned

that Articles of Association as an early document in the formation of

America as a nation, the colonies had at this point not set up their

own governments nor had they formally announced plans to effect a

political separation from Great Britain.

 

To wit, no astrologer has considered this event as the defining

moment in the birth of the USA as a nation.

 

<snip>

 

Conclusion

A clear historical case has emerged. The process of Union began with

the Articles of Association and concluded with the Articles of

Confederation and Perpetual Union. The Boston Tea Party, while

inspiring to the revolutionaries, was only one of many catalysts that

led to the War of Independence. The Articles of Association was only

a hesitant first step towards Union and does not have merit as a

founding document for the USA. It was a common basis only for issuing

grievances against the British Crown by the subjects of the King.

While an important stepping stone, the outbreak of the Revolutionary

War was not an event that brought the USA into being as a nation.

Likewise, as a 'divorce decree,' the Declaration of Independence

could not serve as the real founding event of the nation, no matter

how inspiring. At that stage in the game, the states were equivalent

to thirteen sovereign countries, albeit still battling the Red Coats.

The truly important event was the creation of the Union of 13

American states. This event took place when Maryland became the 13th

and final state to pass legislation to ratify the Articles of

Confederation and Perpetual Union. The act established the requisite

unanimous consent for the formation of the new Perpetual Union. While

the Treaty of Paris on September 3, 1783, provided the recognition of

the British King that the USA had been born, that in itself, was not

the birth moment. The US Constitution also lacks a historical claim

to being first or start of anything as it was the second consitution

of the USA, after the Articles. The historical case for the authentic

moment seems to be clear cut enough, the SAMVA USA chart is founded

on the event establishing the Perpetual Union.

http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/02/birth-of-nation-study-of-five-

major.html

 

=======

 

Regarding your complaint that this chart information is not

distributed on SAMVA let me note that:

 

1. As the above makes clear, I do not find this event to have

historical merit.

 

2.I do not find this chart to have astrological merit as per SA. Our

dear also agrees with this assessment and has

explained the key deficiencies of this chart.

 

3. You have spent several years promoting a chart for the USA based

on your own theories. Now you have dropped this chart and replaced it

with another. The charts have changed but your confidence in the

merit of this new chart is as great as your confidence was in the

former chart.

 

4. In addition to Satva101, you have presented this information on

your own list Satvargas and also PoliticalAstrology list. The

information has therefore received wide circulation in SA and other

circles.

 

As you know, I am the founder and moderator of SAMVA list. From the

beginning, I dedicated that list to the study of SA in the mundane

sphere. This you know full well. I have respected the views and

information you present on your own and other lists. I have not

entered into discussion or debate with you on your own list

concerning your work. In view of the above and in order to avoid

confusion on SAMVA list I chose not to circulate these messages

there. I hope you understand the decision.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

, " Jorge Angelino "

<jorge.angelino wrote:

>

> My dear Vinod,

>

> I understand...I have not so much planets in fixed signs, so I am

always

> open to better solutions.

>

> The reason I have posted in your list and in SAMVA list is just to

let all

> the members know about a new USA chart.

>

> Thank you for letting me post in your Satva101 list.

>

> Same is not happening in your SAMVA list...for some reason my

message is

> still blocked.

>

> What can we do...nothing!

>

> Best wishes,

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:22 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> > Hello my dear Jorge,

> >

> > I see a chart with SA principles and objectively.

> >

> > I have strong views about SAMVA USA chart after studying it over

a couple

> > of years and exploring other charts for over a decade.

> >

> > Previously, you were holding so strong views about 2nd July,

1776, chart.

> > Now you have found this chart and you feel strongly about this.

> >

> > Best wishes to you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > Jorge Angelino

> > ; samva

> > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:27 PM

> > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention

please)

> >

> >

> > My dear Vinod,

> >

> > What can I say against your wise statements...thank you anyway!

> >

> > However, I have studied it already and extensively and I have

seen that it

> > explains US completely.

> >

> > It is just a matter of patience and see it, by going through some

> > important

> > events.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:48 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

> >

> > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > >

> > > There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts the

whole

> > world

> > > its tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the planet

> > representing

> > > its status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This chart

is

> > against

> > > the fundamental principles of SA.

> > >

> > > Best wishes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Jorge Angelino

> > >

> > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

> > > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart

(attention please)

> > >

> > >

> > > My dear Vinod,

> > >

> > > I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

> > >

> > > Thanks anyway for expressing it.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at

all.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > samva ;

> > > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> > > > The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention

please)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Friends,

> > > >

> > > > The United States of America were born on September, 5,

1774, at 12:00

> > > pm

> > > > LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> > > > Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°

56′52.27″N

> > > > 75°8′52.67″W

> > > > (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Warmly,

> > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Jorge Angelino

> > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > >

> > > --

> > Jorge Angelino

> > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor,

 

I understand and appreciate it.

 

Thanks for being so clear.

 

Best wishes,

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:07 AM, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

 

> Dear Jorge,

>

> On February 6, 2008, I wrote an article on my blog titled:

> " Birth of a nation – a study of seven major events in US history, "

> where I offer the following information about this event you suggest

> and my conclusion:

>

> ======

> 2. The Articles of Association in 1774 was a coming together of the

> colonies for the purpose of pooling their interests to strengthen

> their bargaining power vis-a-vis Great Britain. At this stage, they

> still conducted themselves as subjects of the Crown. Their assembly

> was named the (first) Continental Congress. The union of the colonies

> was at this point only an informal association.

>

> <snip>

>

> 2. Articles of Association in 1774

> The Articles of Association were petitions of grievances against

> Great Britain by Twelve Colonies and a compact among them to

> collectively impose economic sanctions to pressure a resolution. The

> Articles were drafted by the First Continental Congress in 1774 and

> were an important formative document in the history of the United

> States that perhaps hastened the American Revolution, though they

> were intended instead to alter Britain's policies towards the

> colonies without severing allegiance. While Abraham Lincoln mentioned

> that Articles of Association as an early document in the formation of

> America as a nation, the colonies had at this point not set up their

> own governments nor had they formally announced plans to effect a

> political separation from Great Britain.

>

> To wit, no astrologer has considered this event as the defining

> moment in the birth of the USA as a nation.

>

> <snip>

>

> Conclusion

> A clear historical case has emerged. The process of Union began with

> the Articles of Association and concluded with the Articles of

> Confederation and Perpetual Union. The Boston Tea Party, while

> inspiring to the revolutionaries, was only one of many catalysts that

> led to the War of Independence. The Articles of Association was only

> a hesitant first step towards Union and does not have merit as a

> founding document for the USA. It was a common basis only for issuing

> grievances against the British Crown by the subjects of the King.

> While an important stepping stone, the outbreak of the Revolutionary

> War was not an event that brought the USA into being as a nation.

> Likewise, as a 'divorce decree,' the Declaration of Independence

> could not serve as the real founding event of the nation, no matter

> how inspiring. At that stage in the game, the states were equivalent

> to thirteen sovereign countries, albeit still battling the Red Coats.

> The truly important event was the creation of the Union of 13

> American states. This event took place when Maryland became the 13th

> and final state to pass legislation to ratify the Articles of

> Confederation and Perpetual Union. The act established the requisite

> unanimous consent for the formation of the new Perpetual Union. While

> the Treaty of Paris on September 3, 1783, provided the recognition of

> the British King that the USA had been born, that in itself, was not

> the birth moment. The US Constitution also lacks a historical claim

> to being first or start of anything as it was the second consitution

> of the USA, after the Articles. The historical case for the authentic

> moment seems to be clear cut enough, the SAMVA USA chart is founded

> on the event establishing the Perpetual Union.

> http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/02/birth-of-nation-study-of-five-

> major.html

>

> =======

>

> Regarding your complaint that this chart information is not

> distributed on SAMVA let me note that:

>

> 1. As the above makes clear, I do not find this event to have

> historical merit.

>

> 2.I do not find this chart to have astrological merit as per SA. Our

> dear also agrees with this assessment and has

> explained the key deficiencies of this chart.

>

> 3. You have spent several years promoting a chart for the USA based

> on your own theories. Now you have dropped this chart and replaced it

> with another. The charts have changed but your confidence in the

> merit of this new chart is as great as your confidence was in the

> former chart.

>

> 4. In addition to Satva101, you have presented this information on

> your own list Satvargas and also PoliticalAstrology list. The

> information has therefore received wide circulation in SA and other

> circles.

>

> As you know, I am the founder and moderator of SAMVA list. From the

> beginning, I dedicated that list to the study of SA in the mundane

> sphere. This you know full well. I have respected the views and

> information you present on your own and other lists. I have not

> entered into discussion or debate with you on your own list

> concerning your work. In view of the above and in order to avoid

> confusion on SAMVA list I chose not to circulate these messages

> there. I hope you understand the decision.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

> , " Jorge Angelino "

> <jorge.angelino wrote:

> >

> > My dear Vinod,

> >

> > I understand...I have not so much planets in fixed signs, so I am

> always

> > open to better solutions.

> >

> > The reason I have posted in your list and in SAMVA list is just to

> let all

> > the members know about a new USA chart.

> >

> > Thank you for letting me post in your Satva101 list.

> >

> > Same is not happening in your SAMVA list...for some reason my

> message is

> > still blocked.

> >

> > What can we do...nothing!

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:22 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

> >

> > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > >

> > > I see a chart with SA principles and objectively.

> > >

> > > I have strong views about SAMVA USA chart after studying it over

> a couple

> > > of years and exploring other charts for over a decade.

> > >

> > > Previously, you were holding so strong views about 2nd July,

> 1776, chart.

> > > Now you have found this chart and you feel strongly about this.

> > >

> > > Best wishes to you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Jorge Angelino

> > > ; samva

> > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:27 PM

> > > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention

> please)

> > >

> > >

> > > My dear Vinod,

> > >

> > > What can I say against your wise statements...thank you anyway!

> > >

> > > However, I have studied it already and extensively and I have

> seen that it

> > > explains US completely.

> > >

> > > It is just a matter of patience and see it, by going through some

> > > important

> > > events.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:48 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts the

> whole

> > > world

> > > > its tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the planet

> > > representing

> > > > its status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This chart

> is

> > > against

> > > > the fundamental principles of SA.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > >

> > > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

> > > > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart

> (attention please)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My dear Vinod,

> > > >

> > > > I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks anyway for expressing it.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not find this chart to be representative of the US, at

> all.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > > samva ;

> > > > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> > > > > The Authentic USA Birth Chart (attention

> please)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > The United States of America were born on September, 5,

> 1774, at 12:00

> > > > pm

> > > > > LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> > > > > Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*: 39°

> 56′52.27″N

> > > > > 75°8′52.67″W

> > > > > (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Warmly,

> > > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > Jorge Angelino

> > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear list members

 

Further to the history of the American union, we may note that the

Albany Congress, also known as the Albany Conference, was a meeting

of representatives of seven of the British North American colonies in

1754 (specifically, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New

Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island). Representatives

met daily at Albany, New York from June 19 to July 11 to discuss

better relations with the Indian tribes and common defensive measures

against the French. Following the Congress, the French and Indian

Wars took place from 1754 to 1763, when the British and Colonials

united to rid the western territories of French influence. It was

the decisions of the British King to impose a tax on the colonials

after the war, to pay for the expensive war, that began the friction

between the two.

 

The Albany Congress is notable for producing Benjamin Franklin's

Albany Plan of Union, an early attempt to form a union of the

colonies that would remain under the authority of the British crown.

Part of the Albany Plan was used in writing the Articles of

Confederation, which kept the States together from 1781 until the

Constitution. It was the first time that all the colonies had been

together.

 

The plan was thwarted by colonial legislatures and King George II.

Nevertheless, it was an early indication that the British colonies of

North America were headed towards unification.

 

Just like the Articles of Association and the (first) Continental

Congress of 1774, the Albany Congress of 1753 was a step towards

unification and limited self rule. By 1775, the plans changed

decisively, in large part due to the reaction of the British, and the

American Revolutionary War broke out as the colonials now headed for

a full seperation from the British king. The formal Union that was

drawn up in the Articles of Confederation in 1776-77 and approved by

all thirteen states in 1781, became the basis of full sovereignity

not yet decided in 1753 or 1774.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_America#Unification_of_the_Briti

sh_colonies

 

, " Jorge Angelino "

<jorge.angelino wrote:

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> I understand and appreciate it.

>

> Thanks for being so clear.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:07 AM, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> > Dear Jorge,

> >

> > On February 6, 2008, I wrote an article on my blog titled:

> > " Birth of a nation †" a study of seven major events in US

history, "

> > where I offer the following information about this event you

suggest

> > and my conclusion:

> >

> > ======

> > 2. The Articles of Association in 1774 was a coming together of

the

> > colonies for the purpose of pooling their interests to strengthen

> > their bargaining power vis-a-vis Great Britain. At this stage,

they

> > still conducted themselves as subjects of the Crown. Their

assembly

> > was named the (first) Continental Congress. The union of the

colonies

> > was at this point only an informal association.

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > 2. Articles of Association in 1774

> > The Articles of Association were petitions of grievances against

> > Great Britain by Twelve Colonies and a compact among them to

> > collectively impose economic sanctions to pressure a resolution.

The

> > Articles were drafted by the First Continental Congress in 1774

and

> > were an important formative document in the history of the United

> > States that perhaps hastened the American Revolution, though they

> > were intended instead to alter Britain's policies towards the

> > colonies without severing allegiance. While Abraham Lincoln

mentioned

> > that Articles of Association as an early document in the

formation of

> > America as a nation, the colonies had at this point not set up

their

> > own governments nor had they formally announced plans to effect a

> > political separation from Great Britain.

> >

> > To wit, no astrologer has considered this event as the defining

> > moment in the birth of the USA as a nation.

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > Conclusion

> > A clear historical case has emerged. The process of Union began

with

> > the Articles of Association and concluded with the Articles of

> > Confederation and Perpetual Union. The Boston Tea Party, while

> > inspiring to the revolutionaries, was only one of many catalysts

that

> > led to the War of Independence. The Articles of Association was

only

> > a hesitant first step towards Union and does not have merit as a

> > founding document for the USA. It was a common basis only for

issuing

> > grievances against the British Crown by the subjects of the King.

> > While an important stepping stone, the outbreak of the

Revolutionary

> > War was not an event that brought the USA into being as a nation.

> > Likewise, as a 'divorce decree,' the Declaration of Independence

> > could not serve as the real founding event of the nation, no

matter

> > how inspiring. At that stage in the game, the states were

equivalent

> > to thirteen sovereign countries, albeit still battling the Red

Coats.

> > The truly important event was the creation of the Union of 13

> > American states. This event took place when Maryland became the

13th

> > and final state to pass legislation to ratify the Articles of

> > Confederation and Perpetual Union. The act established the

requisite

> > unanimous consent for the formation of the new Perpetual Union.

While

> > the Treaty of Paris on September 3, 1783, provided the

recognition of

> > the British King that the USA had been born, that in itself, was

not

> > the birth moment. The US Constitution also lacks a historical

claim

> > to being first or start of anything as it was the second

consitution

> > of the USA, after the Articles. The historical case for the

authentic

> > moment seems to be clear cut enough, the SAMVA USA chart is

founded

> > on the event establishing the Perpetual Union.

> > http://cosmologer.blogspot.com/2008/02/birth-of-nation-study-of-

five-

> > major.html

> >

> > =======

> >

> > Regarding your complaint that this chart information is not

> > distributed on SAMVA let me note that:

> >

> > 1. As the above makes clear, I do not find this event to have

> > historical merit.

> >

> > 2.I do not find this chart to have astrological merit as per SA.

Our

> > dear also agrees with this assessment and has

> > explained the key deficiencies of this chart.

> >

> > 3. You have spent several years promoting a chart for the USA

based

> > on your own theories. Now you have dropped this chart and

replaced it

> > with another. The charts have changed but your confidence in the

> > merit of this new chart is as great as your confidence was in the

> > former chart.

> >

> > 4. In addition to Satva101, you have presented this information on

> > your own list Satvargas and also PoliticalAstrology list. The

> > information has therefore received wide circulation in SA and

other

> > circles.

> >

> > As you know, I am the founder and moderator of SAMVA list. From

the

> > beginning, I dedicated that list to the study of SA in the mundane

> > sphere. This you know full well. I have respected the views and

> > information you present on your own and other lists. I have not

> > entered into discussion or debate with you on your own list

> > concerning your work. In view of the above and in order to avoid

> > confusion on SAMVA list I chose not to circulate these messages

> > there. I hope you understand the decision.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> > , " Jorge Angelino "

> > <jorge.angelino@> wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Vinod,

> > >

> > > I understand...I have not so much planets in fixed signs, so I

am

> > always

> > > open to better solutions.

> > >

> > > The reason I have posted in your list and in SAMVA list is just

to

> > let all

> > > the members know about a new USA chart.

> > >

> > > Thank you for letting me post in your Satva101 list.

> > >

> > > Same is not happening in your SAMVA list...for some reason my

> > message is

> > > still blocked.

> > >

> > > What can we do...nothing!

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:22 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > I see a chart with SA principles and objectively.

> > > >

> > > > I have strong views about SAMVA USA chart after studying it

over

> > a couple

> > > > of years and exploring other charts for over a decade.

> > > >

> > > > Previously, you were holding so strong views about 2nd July,

> > 1776, chart.

> > > > Now you have found this chart and you feel strongly about

this.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes to you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > ; samva

> > > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:27 PM

> > > > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart

(attention

> > please)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My dear Vinod,

> > > >

> > > > What can I say against your wise statements...thank you

anyway!

> > > >

> > > > However, I have studied it already and extensively and I have

> > seen that it

> > > > explains US completely.

> > > >

> > > > It is just a matter of patience and see it, by going through

some

> > > > important

> > > > events.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:48 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > > > >

> > > > > There are reasons for my opinion. A country which impacts

the

> > whole

> > > > world

> > > > > its tenth house cannot be under exact affliction and the

planet

> > > > representing

> > > > > its status and wealth cannot be in the sixth house. This

chart

> > is

> > > > against

> > > > > the fundamental principles of SA.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > >

> > > > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:06 PM

> > > > > Re: The Authentic USA Birth Chart

> > (attention please)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My dear Vinod,

> > > > >

> > > > > I would not expect other opinion from yourself, of course.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks anyway for expressing it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >

> > > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, SIHA <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hello my dear Jorge,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do not find this chart to be representative of the US,

at

> > all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > > > samva ;

> > > > > > Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:21 AM

> > > > > > The Authentic USA Birth Chart

(attention

> > please)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The United States of America were born on September, 5,

> > 1774, at 12:00

> > > > > pm

> > > > > > LMT, in *Carpenters*' *Hall*.

> > > > > > Location: *Philadelphia*, Pennsylvania. *Coordinates*:

39°

> > 56′52.27″N

> > > > > > 75°8′52.67″W

> > > > > > (Noon LMT in Carpenter's Hall will be 17:00:35,51 UT).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Warmly,

> > > > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > Jorge Angelino

> > > > http://satva.blogspot.com/

> > > >

> > > >