Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear List Members, Before I get myself in trouble again (J) by discussing Vedic techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I’d ask a few questions of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the system of KP. I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum – or if they are acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will suffer – like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? I can think of more techniques, but I’ll stop my questions at these. I’m just trying to discern “what’s what”…J because I was blown away at the non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice-versa), is it because research has been done indicating that the technique has already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any research on its applicability – therefore it is not (yet) considered a viable possibility in KP delineation – so it may or may not be applicable? Just curious…Thanks. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear Sandy Crowther, According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as follows: 1. First one is okay. 2. Second one, not much familiar for me. 3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone is applied in KP. Best regards, tw , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> wrote: > Dear List Members, > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few questions > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the > system of KP. > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they are > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at these. I'm > just trying to discern " what's what " .:-) because I was blown away at the > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- versa), is > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) considered a > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear Sandy The Badhaka Sthanas, and Maraka Sthanas(2,7) are taken into consideration in KP ONLY WHEN CONSIDERING THE END OF LIFE, and not for any other event of Life. Good LuckSandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear List Members, Before I get myself in trouble again (J) by discussing Vedic techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I’d ask a few questions of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the system of KP. I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum – or if they are acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will suffer – like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? I can think of more techniques, but I’ll stop my questions at these. I’m just trying to discern “what’s what”…J because I was blown away at the non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice-versa), is it because research has been done indicating that the technique has already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any research on its applicability – therefore it is not (yet) considered a viable possibility in KP delineation – so it may or may not be applicable? Just curious…Thanks. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear Anant Raichur and Group, Thanks Mr. Raichur, for the information on the Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th houses) and the Badhaka Sthanas, and for letting me know that these techniques are only taken into consideration in KP when considering the event respective only to the end of life. However, I think you may have misunderstood what I was referring to – I was inquiring about the technique of Marana Karaka Sthanas, and wondering if any consideration (or discredit) is given to these placements in KP – or if you know if any research has been done on this technique - like especially being applicable during their respective mahadashas/bhukti’s/prantyantardashas, or perhaps when a star/sub for a planetary significator addressing a specific planet and MKS house, happens to fall in these houses? Marana Karaka Sthanas are different than Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th houses). Marana Karaka Sthana refer to a certain planet that occupies a certain house in a chart, that in turn causes the houses OWNED by that planet to suffer, (and therefore can be capable of danger or causing death.) These MKS house placements are 12th for the Sun, 8th for the Moon, 7th for Mars and Mercury, 3rd for Jupiter, 6th for Venus, 1st for Saturn, and 9th for Rahu. I was just wondering if anyone knew whether or not this technique has ever been referenced in any of the KP writings – and therefore been either KP accepted or discredited…or perhaps it has never been mentioned at all in the writings? One more question on amsas to satisfy my curiosity - if I may – (and I’m honestly not trying to start trouble J or go off topic – I’m just curious). Is it specifically written or referenced somewhere in the KP writings that the divisionals have absolutely no value to the KP System, and therefore have no place in KP? I’m having a real hard time with that one, and cannot believe that their usage hasn’t been implemented – at least in some small way – somewhere along the way…Thanks again. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com anant raichur [anant_1608] Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:17 AM Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? Dear Sandy The Badhaka Sthanas, and Maraka Sthanas(2,7) are taken into consideration in KP ONLY WHEN CONSIDERING THE END OF LIFE, and not for any other event of Life. Good Luck Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear List Members, Before I get myself in trouble again (J) by discussing Vedic techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I’d ask a few questions of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the system of KP. I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum – or if they are acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? 1.Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) 2.Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) 3.What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will suffer – like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? I can think of more techniques, but I’ll stop my questions at these. I’m just trying to discern “what’s what”…J because I was blown away at the non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice-versa), is it because research has been done indicating that the technique has already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any research on its applicability – therefore it is not (yet) considered a viable possibility in KP delineation – so it may or may not be applicable? Just curious…Thanks. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombay anant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLY tel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear tw, Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may… One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the “East meets the West”, and therefore interesting concepts from both systems are utilized. But I’m not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit – so a few more questions… 1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in KP? 2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) Solar Returns? 3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? (Ooops – that was 3 questions…Thanks.) All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com tw853 [tw853] Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? Dear Sandy Crowther, According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as follows: 1. First one is okay. 2. Second one, not much familiar for me. 3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone is applied in KP. Best regards, tw , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> wrote: > Dear List Members, > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few questions > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the > system of KP. > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they are > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at these. I'm > just trying to discern " what's what " .:-) because I was blown away at the > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- versa), is > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) considered a > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear Sandy, befor 2-3 year beck i had try solar return and Progression in KP and i am found very good result but due to very length mathemetical work and no software avaliable so i drop both.for solar return i calculate vimsotari dasa for 1 year. and found wonder full result.you can pridict day to day pridiction, kanak bosmia >"Sandy Crowther" <sandy > > >RE: Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? >Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:22:13 -0500 > >Dear tw, > > > >Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may. > > > >One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the "East >meets the West", and therefore interesting concepts from both systems >are utilized. But I'm not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit - so a >few more questions. > > > >1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in >KP? > >2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) >Solar Returns? > >3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? > > > >(Ooops - that was 3 questions.Thanks.) > > > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tw853 [tw853] >Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM > > Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? > > > > >Dear Sandy Crowther, > >According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as >follows: > >1. First one is okay. > >2. Second one, not much familiar for me. > >3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone >is applied in KP. > >Best regards, > >tw > > > , "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> >wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > > > > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few >questions > > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your >opinions > > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to >the > > system of KP. > > > > > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following >techniques > > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for >delineation KP > > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they >are > > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the >use of > > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements >will > > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone >is > > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at >these. I'm > > just trying to discern "what's what".:-) because I was blown away >at the > > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the >above > > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- >versa), is > > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no >one > > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) >considered a > > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > Sandy Crowther > > > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear Sandy, In K.P.,as far as my knowledge goes,there's is no place for any kind of Amsas...Simply because,the different "amsas" are based upon the equal division of houses and stars...whereas,in K.P., the star is subdivided into unequal subs...! This unequal division of stars into subs (and sub-subs and sub-sub-subs etc.,) is unique to K.P.,where the sub is a division proportional to the respective dasa periods alloted to the various planets,in the Vimshottari Dasa sheme...( and so on to sub-sub etc...) In K.P., these subs alone, decide whether,a planet is finally a benefic or malefic to a person...depending upon its signification... All significators of II.III.VI.X XI are considered to be generally considered as beneficial to a person,as these houses are known as improving houses... Thus,Sandy,there is simply no place for amsas,infact in K.P., there is no such term employed...even ! Surely,there could be a more simple and lucid explanation,but at present,dear Sandy,this is my best effort... I hope I have been able to answer to your satisfaction... With best wishes, Yours sincerely, lyrastro1 GOOD LUCK ! Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear Anant Raichur and Group, Thanks Mr. Raichur, for the information on the Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th houses) and the Badhaka Sthanas, and for letting me know that these techniques are only taken into consideration in KP when considering the event respective only to the end of life. However, I think you may have misunderstood what I was referring to – I was inquiring about the technique of Marana Karaka Sthanas, and wondering if any consideration (or discredit) is given to these placements in KP – or if you know if any research has been done on this technique - like especially being applicable during their respective mahadashas/bhukti’s/prantyantardashas, or perhaps when a star/sub for a planetary significator addressing a specific planet and MKS house, happens to fall in these houses? Marana Karaka Sthanas are different than Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th houses). Marana Karaka Sthana refer to a certain planet that occupies a certain house in a chart, that in turn causes the houses OWNED by that planet to suffer, (and therefore can be capable of danger or causing death.) These MKS house placements are 12th for the Sun, 8th for the Moon, 7th for Mars and Mercury, 3rd for Jupiter, 6th for Venus, 1st for Saturn, and 9th for Rahu. I was just wondering if anyone knew whether or not this technique has ever been referenced in any of the KP writings – and therefore been either KP accepted or discredited…or perhaps it has never been mentioned at all in the writings? One more question on amsas to satisfy my curiosity - if I may – (and I’m honestly not trying to start trouble J or go off topic – I’m just curious). Is it specifically written or referenced somewhere in the KP writings that the divisionals have absolutely no value to the KP System, and therefore have no place in KP? I’m having a real hard time with that one, and cannot believe that their usage hasn’t been implemented – at least in some small way – somewhere along the way…Thanks again. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com anant raichur [anant_1608] Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:17 AM Subject: Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? Dear Sandy The Badhaka Sthanas, and Maraka Sthanas(2,7) are taken into consideration in KP ONLY WHEN CONSIDERING THE END OF LIFE, and not for any other event of Life. Good LuckSandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear List Members, Before I get myself in trouble again (J) by discussing Vedic techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I’d ask a few questions of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the system of KP. I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum – or if they are acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? 1.Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) 2.Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) 3.What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will suffer – like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? I can think of more techniques, but I’ll stop my questions at these. I’m just trying to discern “what’s what”…J because I was blown away at the non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice-versa), is it because research has been done indicating that the technique has already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any research on its applicability – therefore it is not (yet) considered a viable possibility in KP delineation – so it may or may not be applicable? Just curious…Thanks. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dear Sandy, Progression is used in K.P., but I have no experience...the Varshaphal method is also used,I am sure, by erecting a chart for that year,at the exact time when the Sun reaches the position of the natal Sun...! As for me,I do not use both methods,I prefer to use the Transit System for getting very accurate results...in timing the event... If the sublord of the XIth cusp(fulfillment of desire),is posited in a Moveable,Fixed or Common Sign,I will take the transit on the first,second or the last Sensitive point etc...as follows... If the event is expected to take place within the year,I take the Moon's transit,if within a few months and within a year,I take the Sun's transit,if more than a year...then Jupiter's transit for timing... and finalised with the transit of the Moon to narrow down to the exact day...and the Ascendant's transit,for arriving at the EXACT TIME...! ! And finally,the proof of the pudding is in eating it... Yours sincerely, lyrastro1Kanakkumar Bosmia <kanbosastro wrote: Dear Sandy, befor 2-3 year beck i had try solar return and Progression in KP and i am found very good result but due to very length mathemetical work and no software avaliable so i drop both.for solar return i calculate vimsotari dasa for 1 year. and found wonder full result.you can pridict day to day pridiction, kanak bosmia >"Sandy Crowther" <sandy > > >RE: Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? >Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:22:13 -0500 > >Dear tw, > > > >Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may. > > > >One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the "East >meets the West", and therefore interesting concepts from both systems >are utilized. But I'm not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit - so a >few more questions. > > > >1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in >KP? > >2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) >Solar Returns? > >3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? > > > >(Ooops - that was 3 questions.Thanks.) > > > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tw853 [tw853] >Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM > > Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? > > > > >Dear Sandy Crowther, > >According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as >follows: > >1. First one is okay. > >2. Second one, not much familiar for me. > >3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone >is applied in KP. > >Best regards, > >tw > > > , "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> >wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > > > > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few >questions > > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your >opinions > > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to >the > > system of KP. > > > > > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following >techniques > > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for >delineation KP > > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they >are > > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the >use of > > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements >will > > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone >is > > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at >these. I'm > > just trying to discern "what's what".:-) because I was blown away >at the > > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the >above > > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- >versa), is > > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no >one > > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) >considered a > > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > Sandy Crowther > > > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Sandy, Here are my answers (in BLOCK letters) - > 1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in KP? > NO > 2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) Solar > Returns? > YES, BUT IT IS NOT A REGULAR PART OF KP. SRI KSK HAD MENTIONED IN 3RD READER THAT HE WAS GOING TO WRITE A BOOK ON PROGRESSION BUT DUE TO SOME REASON IT REMAINED INCOMPLETE. BUT HE HAS USED PROGRESSION AT FEW PLACES. SO WE CAN SAY THAT PROGRESSION IS PART OF KP SYSTEM. I AM NOT SURE ABOUT SECONDARY ETC. > 3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? NO Hope it will help. Keep it in mind that no real research has been done to establish the relationship between KP and above mentioned concepts. So these can be the part of KP in future. Regards, Punit Pandey On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:22:13 -0500, Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: > > > > Dear tw, > > > > Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may… > > > > One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the " East > meets the West " , and therefore interesting concepts from both systems are > utilized. But I'm not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit – so a few > more questions… > > > > 1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in KP? > > 2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) Solar > Returns? > > 3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? > > > > (Ooops – that was 3 questions…Thanks.) > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > tw853 [tw853] > Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM > > Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? > > > > > Dear Sandy Crowther, > > According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as > follows: > > 1. First one is okay. > > 2. Second one, not much familiar for me. > > 3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone > is applied in KP. > > Best regards, > > tw > > > , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> > wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > > > > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few > questions > > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your > opinions > > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to > the > > system of KP. > > > > > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following > techniques > > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for > delineation KP > > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they > are > > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the > use of > > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements > will > > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone > is > > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at > these. I'm > > just trying to discern " what's what " .:-) because I was blown away > at the > > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the > above > > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- > versa), is > > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no > one > > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) > considered a > > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > Sandy Crowther > > > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Dear Sandy Crowther, 1. Not found in six KP Readers. 2. A thorough study of Dasa system, progression and annual horoscope are needed to pass correct judgement. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part II, 303) Prgessesion (p 304-305), Annual Horoscope (p 305-310) 3. Not found in six KP Readers. Best regards, tw , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote: > Sandy, > > Here are my answers (in BLOCK letters) - > > > 1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in KP? > > NO > > > 2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) Solar > > Returns? > > YES, BUT IT IS NOT A REGULAR PART OF KP. SRI KSK HAD MENTIONED IN 3RD READER THAT HE WAS GOING TO WRITE A BOOK ON PROGRESSION BUT DUE TO SOME REASON IT REMAINED INCOMPLETE. BUT HE HAS USED PROGRESSION AT FEW PLACES. SO WE CAN SAY THAT PROGRESSION IS PART OF KP SYSTEM. I AM NOT SURE ABOUT SECONDARY ETC. > > > 3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? > NO > > Hope it will help. Keep it in mind that no real research has been done > to establish the relationship between KP and above mentioned concepts. > So these can be the part of KP in future. > > Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:22:13 -0500, Sandy Crowther <sandy@t...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear tw, > > > > > > > > Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may… > > > > > > > > One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the " East > > meets the West " , and therefore interesting concepts from both systems are > > utilized. But I'm not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit †" so a few > > more questions… > > > > > > > > 1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in KP? > > > > 2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) Solar > > Returns? > > > > 3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? > > > > > > > > (Ooops †" that was 3 questions…Thanks.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > Sandy Crowther > > > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 [tw853] > > Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM > > > > Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sandy Crowther, > > > > According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as > > follows: > > > > 1. First one is okay. > > > > 2. Second one, not much familiar for me. > > > > 3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone > > is applied in KP. > > > > Best regards, > > > > tw > > > > > > , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> > > wrote: > > > Dear List Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > > > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few > > questions > > > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your > > opinions > > > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to > > the > > > system of KP. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > > > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > > > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following > > techniques > > > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for > > delineation KP > > > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they > > are > > > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > > > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > > > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > > > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the > > use of > > > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > > > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > > > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > > > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements > > will > > > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > > > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone > > is > > > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > > > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > > > > > > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at > > these. I'm > > > just trying to discern " what's what " .:-) because I was blown away > > at the > > > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > > > > > > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the > > above > > > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- > > versa), is > > > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > > > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no > > one > > > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > > > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) > > considered a > > > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > > > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > > > Sandy Crowther > > > > > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Dear Sandy Crowther, 1. MKS not found in six KP Readers. 2. Regarding Navamsa, a. It is explained (including Vargothama), in p 74-76, KP Reader I, 1982, and Self-explanatory Table to erect both the rasi & Navamsa Chart, p 78-80, (Also Vargothama in p 290 & 291) b. Guruji KSK's Rasi and Navamsa are shown side by side, p 217, KP Reader III, Part II, 1984 c. The strength of planet is judged by noting ---- Vargothamamsa -- p 59, KP Reader III, Part I & p 59, KP Reader V Best regards, tw , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> wrote: > Dear Anant Raichur and Group, > > > > Thanks Mr. Raichur, for the information on the Maraka Sthanas (2nd and > 7th houses) and the Badhaka Sthanas, and for letting me know that these > techniques are only taken into consideration in KP when considering the > event respective only to the end of life. However, I think you may have > misunderstood what I was referring to - I was inquiring about the > technique of Marana Karaka Sthanas, and wondering if any consideration > (or discredit) is given to these placements in KP - or if you know if > any research has been done on this technique - like especially being > applicable during their respective > mahadashas/bhukti's/prantyantardashas, or perhaps when a star/sub for a > planetary significator addressing a specific planet and MKS house, > happens to fall in these houses? > > > > Marana Karaka Sthanas are different than Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th > houses). Marana Karaka Sthana refer to a certain planet that occupies a > certain house in a chart, that in turn causes the houses OWNED by that > planet to suffer, (and therefore can be capable of danger or causing > death.) These MKS house placements are 12th for the Sun, 8th for the > Moon, 7th for Mars and Mercury, 3rd for Jupiter, 6th for Venus, 1st for > Saturn, and 9th for Rahu. I was just wondering if anyone knew whether or > not this technique has ever been referenced in any of the KP writings - > and therefore been either KP accepted or discredited.or perhaps it has > never been mentioned at all in the writings? > > > > One more question on amsas to satisfy my curiosity - if I may - (and I'm > honestly not trying to start trouble :-) or go off topic - I'm just > curious). Is it specifically written or referenced somewhere in the KP > writings that the divisionals have absolutely no value to the KP System, > and therefore have no place in KP? I'm having a real hard time with that > one, and cannot believe that their usage hasn't been implemented - at > least in some small way - somewhere along the way.Thanks again. > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > anant raichur [anant_1608] > Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:17 AM > > Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? > > > > Dear Sandy > > > > The Badhaka Sthanas, and Maraka Sthanas(2,7) are taken into > consideration in KP ONLY WHEN CONSIDERING THE END OF LIFE, and not for > any other event of Life. > > > > Good Luck > > Sandy Crowther <sandy@t...> wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few questions > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the > system of KP. > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they are > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > 1.Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > > 2.Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > > 3.What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators that > houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at these. I'm > just trying to discern " what's what " .:-) because I was blown away at the > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- versa), is > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) considered a > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > --------- > A.R.Raichur bombay > anant_1608 > > raichuranant > > USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLY > tel: 022-2506 2609 > --------- > > _____ > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn > <http://us.rd./evt=29917/*http:/info.mail./mail_250> > more. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 For reply Please see paras Marked ***Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear Anant Raichur and Group, Thanks Mr. Raichur, for the information on the Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th houses) and the Badhaka Sthanas, and for letting me know that these techniques are only taken into consideration in KP when considering the event respective only to the end of life. However, I think you may have misunderstood what I was referring to – I was inquiring about the technique of Marana Karaka Sthanas, and wondering if any consideration (or discredit) is given to these placements in KP – or if you know if any research has been done on this technique - like especially being applicable during their respective mahadashas/bhukti’s/prantyantardashas, or perhaps when a star/sub for a planetary significator addressing a specific planet and MKS house, happens to fall in these houses? *** KP does not take this placement into consideration at all Marana Karaka Sthanas are different than Maraka Sthanas (2nd and 7th houses). Marana Karaka Sthana refer to a certain planet that occupies a certain house in a chart, that in turn causes the houses OWNED by that planet to suffer, (and therefore can be capable of danger or causing death.) These MKS house placements are 12th for the Sun, 8th for the Moon, 7th for Mars and Mercury, 3rd for Jupiter, 6th for Venus, 1st for Saturn, and 9th for Rahu. I was just wondering if anyone knew whether or not this technique has ever been referenced in any of the KP writings – and therefore been either KP accepted or discredited…or perhaps it has never been mentioned at all in the writings? *** The above mentioned technique has not been refered or researched in KP, as far as I am aware One more question on amsas to satisfy my curiosity - if I may – (and I’m honestly not trying to start trouble J or go off topic – I’m just curious). Is it specifically written or referenced somewhere in the KP writings that the divisionals have absolutely no value to the KP System, and therefore have no place in KP? I’m having a real hard time with that one, and cannot believe that their usage hasn’t been implemented – at least in some small way – somewhere along the way…Thanks again. *** The Divisional charts have not been referred to any where in KP. Basically, the Divisional charts, depend on the Degees of the Planet. Kp does not consider this degree directly, but only the SIGN LORD (RASI LORD), THE STARLORD, and SUB LORD. Except Retrogression, It does not concern itself with the other states of the Planet, like, Exaltation, Debilitation etc. good luck raichur All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com anant raichur [anant_1608] Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:17 AM Subject: Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? Dear Sandy The Badhaka Sthanas, and Maraka Sthanas(2,7) are taken into consideration in KP ONLY WHEN CONSIDERING THE END OF LIFE, and not for any other event of Life. Good LuckSandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear List Members, Before I get myself in trouble again (J) by discussing Vedic techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I’d ask a few questions of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the system of KP. I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum – or if they are acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? 1.Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) 2.Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) 3.What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will suffer – like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? I can think of more techniques, but I’ll stop my questions at these. I’m just trying to discern “what’s what”…J because I was blown away at the non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice-versa), is it because research has been done indicating that the technique has already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any research on its applicability – therefore it is not (yet) considered a viable possibility in KP delineation – so it may or may not be applicable? Just curious…Thanks. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Dear Sandy KP has adopted the WESTERN SYSTEM of Division of Houses. Kp also recommndes, using the Western Aspects with Orbs for predictions. Declinations, and Parallels ARE NOT ADOPTED in KP. Progressions are not considered, as KP has DASAs (Vimsottari) which is in a way a progression. Solar Returns are not used in KP 3. Midpoints are not considered in KP. I hope it answers your questions. good Luck Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear tw, Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may… One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the “East meets the West”, and therefore interesting concepts from both systems are utilized. But I’m not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit – so a few more questions… 1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in KP? 2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) Solar Returns? 3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? (Ooops – that was 3 questions…Thanks.) All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com tw853 [tw853] Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? Dear Sandy Crowther,According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as follows:1. First one is okay.2. Second one, not much familiar for me.3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone is applied in KP.Best regards,tw , "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:> Dear List Members,> > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic> techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few questions> of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your opinions> on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to the> system of KP. > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the> primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and> sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following techniques> are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for delineation KP> style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they are> acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?)> 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest> planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu> included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the use of> the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed> significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?)> 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators> that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements will> suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP> approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone is> aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary> significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ?> > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at these. I'm> just trying to discern "what's what".:-) because I was blown away at the> non-usage of vargas, so this is a start.> > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the above> techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice-versa), is> it because research has been done indicating that the technique has> already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no one> has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any> research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) considered a> viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be> applicable? Just curious.Thanks.> > > > > > All the Best,> > Sandy Crowther> > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Mail - You care about security. So do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 The Varshaphala Technique is not not A KP method. This is really a Persian Method, adopted by the Traditional Indian Astrologers. This corresponds to the SOLAR RETURN of the Western Astrology. I have used it, and it is generally correct, as results are in general terms.. The Method is TAJIK method. good luckYogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote: Dear Sandy, Progression is used in K.P., but I have no experience...the Varshaphal method is also used,I am sure, by erecting a chart for that year,at the exact time when the Sun reaches the position of the natal Sun...! As for me,I do not use both methods,I prefer to use the Transit System for getting very accurate results...in timing the event... If the sublord of the XIth cusp(fulfillment of desire),is posited in a Moveable,Fixed or Common Sign,I will take the transit on the first,second or the last Sensitive point etc...as follows... If the event is expected to take place within the year,I take the Moon's transit,if within a few months and within a year,I take the Sun's transit,if more than a year...then Jupiter's transit for timing... and finalised with the transit of the Moon to narrow down to the exact day...and the Ascendant's transit,for arriving at the EXACT TIME...! ! And finally,the proof of the pudding is in eating it... Yours sincerely, lyrastro1Kanakkumar Bosmia <kanbosastro wrote: Dear Sandy, befor 2-3 year beck i had try solar return and Progression in KP and i am found very good result but due to very length mathemetical work and no software avaliable so i drop both.for solar return i calculate vimsotari dasa for 1 year. and found wonder full result.you can pridict day to day pridiction, kanak bosmia >"Sandy Crowther" <sandy > > >RE: Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? >Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:22:13 -0500 > >Dear tw, > > > >Thanks. I have one more simple question if I may. > > > >One of the attractions for me to KP is that in many respects, the "East >meets the West", and therefore interesting concepts from both systems >are utilized. But I'm not fully clear on what KP accepts as legit - so a >few more questions. > > > >1. Are declinations (parallels and contra-parallels) ever considered in >KP? > >2. Progressions? (If so, Secondary and Tertiary, or just Secondary?) >Solar Returns? > >3. Does the consideration of Midpoints have any value in KP? > > > >(Ooops - that was 3 questions.Thanks.) > > > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >tw853 [tw853] >Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:03 PM > > Re: Techniques: KP approved or not? > > > > >Dear Sandy Crowther, > >According to my limited KP knowledge, my personal opinion is as >follows: > >1. First one is okay. > >2. Second one, not much familiar for me. > >3. Third one may not be much problem except that generally Asc alone >is applied in KP. > >Best regards, > >tw > > > , "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> >wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > > > > > > > Before I get myself in trouble again (:-)) by discussing Vedic > > techniques that are NOT KP approved, I thought I'd ask a few >questions > > of the more seasoned KP practitioners on the list, to get your >opinions > > on just a few Vedic techniques and their applicability (or not) to >the > > system of KP. > > > > > > > > I know the following techniques I am inquiring about may not be the > > primary indicators/focus due to the KP strong emphasis on star and > > sub-lords, but what I would like to know is if the following >techniques > > are completely off limits (like the Divisionals are) for >delineation KP > > style - and therefore have no place in this KP forum - or if they >are > > acceptable and given due consideration in KP delineations? > > > > > > > > 1. Badhakas (troublemakers) and Badhaka Sthanas (trouble spots?) > > 2. Chara Karakas (temporary karakas based on priority of highest > > planetary degree), and if these are given KP consideration, is Rahu > > included in the Chara Karaka scheme (8 planets used), or just the >use of > > the 7 planet Chara Karakas scheme? What about Sthira Karakas (fixed > > significators to assist in timing the death of relatives?) > > 3. What about planets falling in Marana Karaka Sthana (indicators > > that houses owned by certain planets falling in certain placements >will > > suffer - like 12th for Sun, 8th for Moon, etc? If this is not a KP > > approved technique, has any research been done to date(that anyone >is > > aware of) to discredit or address when the sub for a planetary > > significator falls in Marana Karaka Sthana ? > > > > > > > > I can think of more techniques, but I'll stop my questions at >these. I'm > > just trying to discern "what's what".:-) because I was blown away >at the > > non-usage of vargas, so this is a start. > > > > > > > > Important to me: I would also like to know if one or two of the >above > > techniques are acceptable in KP, and a third is not, (or vice- >versa), is > > it because research has been done indicating that the technique has > > already been researched and has no value in KP, or is it because no >one > > has previously mentioned the technique in their writings OR done any > > research on its applicability - therefore it is not (yet) >considered a > > viable possibility in KP delineation - so it may or may not be > > applicable? Just curious.Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > Sandy Crowther > > > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone), Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime today. I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone… P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Sandy ji, KP is a comparatively new research and incorporating new thoughts will only add value to it. So I am not against of using other techniques till the time those techniques are using at least few concepts of KP. I personally (as a member, not a moderator) liked your idea of rider and my +1 for it . But before we reach to any conclusion, I would like to get views of other members. Regards, Punit Pandey On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:40:37 -0500, Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: > > > > Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn't > miss anyone), > > > > Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, > opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, > and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. > > > > And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few " extra " tidbits of KP > information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not > at all aware of KP's stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For > example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered > in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets > being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - > obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub > lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 > KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary > assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as > mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I > mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with > that 4 letter word again " amsa " J). So anyway, I'm now off to do a bit of KP > research myself - hopefully sometime today. > > > > I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn't an > accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in > at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I > know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when > it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are > all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for > research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – > Thanks so much again to everyone… > > > > P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a > suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for > researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I'm > certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another > list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list's > email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved > here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the > bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has > been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part > of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then > clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a > particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive > purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the > list member to either accept or reject the technique because it is or is not > KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no > confusion as to what is and isn't (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at > the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for > sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in > rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You > and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what > works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) > reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate > everyone under one KP forum.) > > > > My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Dear Sandy, I second your suggestion...let us "keep it simple",for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required... Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site... My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer "skills"(if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed. I hope the "computer experts" will bear with me... With best wishes, lyrastro1 GOOD LUCK !Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone), Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime today. I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone… P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 To all members, I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the many KP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegates or ignores the question of assessing the qualities of each individual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in the literature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previous learning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes. What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not consider exaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & Krishnamurti Padhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details when exaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of it appears to be that they are considered when the planet is in the same sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation. Ron Gaunt On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Sandy, > I second your suggestion...let us " keep it simple " ,for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required... > Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site... > My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer " skills " (if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed. > I hope the " computer experts " will bear with me... > With best wishes, > lyrastro1 > GOOD LUCK ! > >Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: > >Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone), > > > >Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. > > > >And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime > today. > > > >I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone… > > > >P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either > accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) > > > >My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Dear Sandy Crowther, 1. I fully agree with you to contribute something for further development of KP within the framework acceptable to the moderator and other members. 2. Let me fill up the gap in my message # 1873 " c. The strength of planet is judged by noting ---- Vargothamamsa --p 59, KP Reader III, Part I & p 59, KP Reader V " i.e. by noting the sign occupied by it – whether it gets exalted or debilitated; whether it is Wsakshethra or Vargothamamsa or in friendly quarters or enemy's camp, etc. 3. Even though a decisive role is given to Stl & Sbl and house connections in KP, and discrediting like " Everything depends upon the sub, occupied by a planet, whether exalted or debilitated. " (KP Reader IV, p 198), it is explained in p 145-146 & p 255-256, KP Reader VI how diamond is the exalted constellation lord and small packet is the debilitated sublord; 11th Sbl maybe debilitated—if Stl is exalted, then most satisfactory dowry will be received--- (In Astrosecrets & KP, as mentioned by Ron Gaunt in Msg # 1891, emphasis is given to real exaltation or debilitation within prsecribed degrees.) In some cases, strength of planets is used to judge outcome of events and for selection of significators along with ruling planets and sub theory. 4. It is not found in six KP Readers any kind of discrediting Navamsa. 5. In K Hariharan's Notable Horoscope & KP, Navamsa, Vargothamamsa (eg p 53, 77, 155, 156 without critics), exaltation and debilitation (eg p 58,77,99,105,155,173 sometimes discrediting) are widely applied. In addition to Vimshottari dasa, progression coupled with the transits in force approach is used. 6. Some traditional beliefs are modified by constellation theory, eg. Planets in constellation of the karaka planets occupying karaka sign will surely cause trouble; (KP Reader IV, p 257), Regarding Gaja-Kesariyoga, if Moon is in the constellation of Jupiter and Jupiter occupies any of the favorable houses 1,2,3,10 or 11 and if Jupiter is in the constellation of Moon in 1 or 2 or 6 or 10 or 11 and if the sub-lords are well posited, there will be beneficial results. (K Hariharan's How to Cast and Read Your Horoscope? , p 139). Sorry for taking your time with a long response. Best regards, tw P.S. Stellar Astrological Research Institute, Madaras, found out that the " eclipsed planets " give both good and bad results in their dasa -- - (KP Reader VI, 154) , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> wrote: > Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I > didn't miss anyone), > > > > Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, > research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless > questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do > so. > > > > And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few " extra " tidbits of KP > information that I found extremely interesting - and matters that I was > not at all aware of KP's stance on - so thanks very much for > elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation > were not considered in KP - that only retrogression is considered. So > considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their > compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis > and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama > IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable > Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for > assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be > referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama > without Navamsa (Uh-oh - Here we go with that 4 letter word again " amsa " > :-)). So anyway, I'm now off to do a bit of KP research myself - > hopefully sometime today. > > > > I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn't > an accepted part of KP to date - and then be able to back up with > references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble > opinion guys :-)). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own > style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation - > which we should have - we are all individuals. But it looks to me like > many things are still wide open for research - Ooohhh - I only wish > there were more hours in the day. Anyway - Thanks so much again to > everyone. > > > > P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a > suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness > for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy - which you > know I'm certainly ALL FOR - BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never > to another list due to time constraints - and here I am. I > cannot handle another list's email at this time. :-) Perhaps a more > viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to > simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment > posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP > technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the > chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the > method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique > you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes - like > your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member > to either accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP > approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no > confusion as to what is and isn't (to date) an accepted part of KP. And > at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, > for sharing a technique that is not part of KP - as long as it is in > rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. > (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop > using what works for us :-) - even if we are silenced from sharing how > we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a > suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) > > > > My 2 cents - but totally up to the Moderators of this list. > > > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 All members, I apologize for an error in the following. The last line should read 'same star' not sub. ie. a planet is considered exalted if in the same star as the exaltation point. Ron Gaunt On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 07:52:59 +1000, I wrote: > > >To all members, > >I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the many >KP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegates >or ignores the question of assessing the qualities of each >individual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in the >literature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previous >learning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes. > >What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not consider >exaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & Krishnamurti >Padhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details when >exaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of it >appears to be that they are considered when the planet is in the >same sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation. > > >Ron Gaunt > > > >On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote: > >>Dear Sandy, >> I second your suggestion...let us " keep it simple " ,for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required... >> Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site... >> My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer " skills " (if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed. >> I hope the " computer experts " will bear with me... >> With best wishes, >> lyrastro1 >> GOOD LUCK ! >> >>Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: >> >>Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone), >> >> >> >>Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. >> >> >> >>And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime >> today. >> >> >> >>I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone… >> >> >> >>P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either >> accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) >> >> >> >>My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. >> >> >> >> All the Best, >> >> Sandy Crowther >> >> http://www.jupitersweb.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Dear Ron, The following is being submitted,for yours and the group's serious consideration...and I invite specific examples,in your experiences, clearly illustrating the practical use, of exaltation/debilitation,in predictive K.P.astrology... Here's a quote from Astrosecrets & K.P., p.35... " To say of exaltation,ownership or debilitation,simply on the entering of a Rasi(sign) is not correct,in a sign,in a particular star,in a particular degree-minute only,as the planet moves should be reckoned for exaltation,or debilitation etc..." (italics mine) It is thus important to note that exaltation and debilitation has been defined in star and sub terms...and in a particular degree-minute only, as you have quoted... Also,more importantly,it is clearly stated that exaltation or debilitation does not change/alter the nature of the result...in terms of being benefic or malefic...at the most,it will either hasten or slow down the result...! ! Therefore I wonder, "in practical terms" how much difference does this really make...and,if so, how can one measure this "accelleration and decelleration,in the number of hours/days/months..etc..".? If these differences are not quantifiable...simply saying a planet is exalted/debilatated...and therefore...? ? (what do you suggest, we say...which is measureable/quantifiable ?) Hence exaltation/debilitation are recognised theoretically (?),in K.P.,but no quantifiable and practical use is given...! ? (This is my personal opinion and also born out of experience). I therefore feel that exaltation/debilitation are good points only to debate about...and perhaps put forward to justify a successful or failed prediction ? ? Personally I hold a similar view on the various "avasthas"...of planets...as being more of an academic value...in my experience... As I have said earlier,astrology should be of practical use,to both,the consultant/client as well as the astrologer...and it must also felt by readers to be truly useful,in practice... With regards, Yours sincerely, lyrastro1 GOOD LUCK ! rongaunt <rongaunt wrote: To all members,I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the manyKP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegatesor ignores the question of assessing the qualities of eachindividual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in theliterature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previouslearning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes.What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not considerexaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & KrishnamurtiPadhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details whenexaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of itappears to be that they are considered when the planet is in thesame sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation.Ron GauntOn Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote:>Dear Sandy,> I second your suggestion...let us "keep it simple",for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required...> Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site...> My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer "skills"(if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed.> I hope the "computer experts" will bear with me...> With best wishes,> lyrastro1> GOOD LUCK !>>Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote:>>Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone),>> >>Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. >> >>And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime> today. >> >>I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone…>> >>P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either> accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.)>> >>My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list.>> >> All the Best,>> Sandy Crowther>> http://www.jupitersweb.com>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Yogesh, Some years ago I did a study on famous sportsmen expecting to a find statistically high level of exalted Mars. What I found surprised me, in that frequently pre eminent sportsmen in fact had debilitated Mars. Pondering on this I suspected that they had some type of weakness in a certain area, and used the principle of over-compensation to achieve success. In my own case I have a classical debilitated Mars, and I do have a Martian problem. I have always lacked physical energy ie I only have to push a lawn mower once across the lawn, and I feel as though all my energy is vacating my body. In a few minutes I feel as though I have run a marathon. As I matured I have managed better, mainly by eliminating certain foods. Nevertheless over the years I have compensated for bodily dysfunction by engaging in mental pursuits. On reflection after studying many examples I came to the conclusion that what exaltation and debilitation showed was a specific gift or inclination, lack or deficiency. In other words whilst the planet may function perfectly normal for most purposes there is one area where it is abnormal. Thinking in terms of KP it might be that where say Mars is significator for the 1st, 5th and 10th houses, it may offer excellent results to the 5th and 10th whilst giving poor results to the 1st. This presumably would be seen in the quality of the sub or by malefic association or aspect with reference to the 1st. ie. in KP we might be able to see in what area an exalted or debilitated planet functions best or worst. I find it interesting that in a way the author of 'Astrosecrets' Pt 1 page 34 comes up with something similar but more limiting idea than mine when he says " Ownership exaltation or debilitation of planets are generally known responsible to indicate the strength or weakness of a human body constitution from head to foot, but does not take the responsibility to alter the results to be offered, say good to bad or bad to good " . I personally believe that it isn't specific to bodily condition, but can be any area of life. The crux of the matter appears to me be that the planet shows a specific limited abnormality - in the normally accepted qualities of that planet. When I get the time I will have a look and see if I can find some examples that might show exaltation/debilitation in KP. Ron Gaunt On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:44:09 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Ron, > The following is being submitted,for yours and the group's serious consideration...and I invite specific examples,in your experiences, clearly illustrating the practical use, of exaltation/debilitation,in predictive K.P.astrology... > > Here's a quote from Astrosecrets & K.P., p.35... > > " To say of exaltation,ownership or debilitation,simply on the entering of a Rasi(sign) is not correct,in a sign,in a particular star,in a particular degree-minute only,as the planet moves should be reckoned for exaltation,or debilitation etc... " (italics mine) > > It is thus important to note that exaltation and debilitation has been defined in star and sub terms...and in a particular degree-minute only, as you have quoted... > Also,more importantly,it is clearly stated that exaltation or debilitation does not change/alter the nature of the result...in terms of being benefic or malefic...at the most,it will either hasten or slow down the result...! ! > > Therefore I wonder, " in practical terms " how much difference does this really make...and,if so, how can one measure this " accelleration and decelleration,in the number of hours/days/months..etc.. " .? > If these differences are not quantifiable...simply saying a planet is exalted/debilatated...and therefore...? ? (what do you suggest, we say...which is measureable/quantifiable ?) > > Hence exaltation/debilitation are recognised theoretically (?),in K.P.,but no quantifiable and practical use is given...! ? (This is my personal opinion and also born out of experience). > > I therefore feel that exaltation/debilitation are good points only to debate about...and perhaps put forward to justify a successful or failed prediction ? ? > > Personally I hold a similar view on the various " avasthas " ...of planets...as being more of an academic value...in my experience... > > As I have said earlier,astrology should be of practical use,to both,the consultant/client as well as the astrologer...and it must also felt by readers to be truly useful,in practice... > > With regards, > Yours sincerely, > lyrastro1 > GOOD LUCK ! > > > > > > > > > > > >rongaunt <rongaunt wrote: > >To all members, > >I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the many >KP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegates >or ignores the question of assessing the qualities of each >individual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in the >literature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previous >learning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes. > >What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not consider >exaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & Krishnamurti >Padhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details when >exaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of it >appears to be that they are considered when the planet is in the >same sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation. > > >Ron Gaunt > > > >On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote: > >>Dear Sandy, >> I second your suggestion...let us " keep it simple " ,for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required... >> Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site... >> My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer " skills " (if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed. >> I hope the " computer experts " will bear with me... >> With best wishes, >> lyrastro1 >> GOOD LUCK ! >> >>Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: >> >>Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone), >> >> >> >>Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. >> >> >> >>And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime >> today. >> >> >> >>I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone… >> >> >> >>P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either >> accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) >> >> >> >>My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. >> >> >> >> All the Best, >> >> Sandy Crowther >> >> http://www.jupitersweb.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Dear Ron, Doesn't it thus seem to strengthen my case, that debilitation or exaltation have little, or, no significant/measureable role to play, in predictive astrology... ? My friend,I have asked for concrete examples...precisely because In my own experience I have not found any measureable/quantifiable role that such planets play...(I hope I am not labouring the point.) I also realise that I could,however, be wrong...or have missed it completely...and that my experience is a pittance as compared to that of Parasara and the many of his stature... who abounded in the past.. Yours sincerely, lyrastro1 GOOD LUCK !rongaunt <rongaunt wrote: Yogesh,Some years ago I did a study on famous sportsmen expecting to afind statistically high level of exalted Mars. What I foundsurprised me, in that frequently pre eminent sportsmen in facthad debilitated Mars. Pondering on this I suspected that theyhad some type of weakness in a certain area, and used theprinciple of over-compensation to achieve success. In my own case I have a classical debilitated Mars, and I do havea Martian problem. I have always lacked physical energy ie Ionly have to push a lawn mower once across the lawn, and I feelas though all my energy is vacating my body. In a few minutes Ifeel as though I have run a marathon. As I matured I havemanaged better, mainly by eliminating certain foods.Nevertheless over the years I have compensated for bodilydysfunction by engaging in mental pursuits.On reflection after studying many examples I came to theconclusion that what exaltation and debilitation showed was aspecific gift or inclination, lack or deficiency. In otherwords whilst the planet may function perfectly normal for mostpurposes there is one area where it is abnormal. Thinking interms of KP it might be that where say Mars is significator forthe 1st, 5th and 10th houses, it may offer excellent results tothe 5th and 10th whilst giving poor results to the 1st. Thispresumably would be seen in the quality of the sub or by maleficassociation or aspect with reference to the 1st. ie. in KP wemight be able to see in what area an exalted or debilitatedplanet functions best or worst. I find it interesting that in a way the author of 'Astrosecrets'Pt 1 page 34 comes up with something similar but more limitingidea than mine when he says "Ownership exaltation or debilitationof planets are generally known responsible to indicate thestrength or weakness of a human body constitution from head tofoot, but does not take the responsibility to alter the resultsto be offered, say good to bad or bad to good". I personallybelieve that it isn't specific to bodily condition, but can beany area of life. The crux of the matter appears to me be thatthe planet shows a specific limited abnormality - in the normallyaccepted qualities of that planet. When I get the time I will have a look and see if I can find someexamples that might show exaltation/debilitation in KP.Ron Gaunt On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:44:09 +0000, you wrote:>Dear Ron,> The following is being submitted,for yours and the group's serious consideration...and I invite specific examples,in your experiences, clearly illustrating the practical use, of exaltation/debilitation,in predictive K.P.astrology...> > Here's a quote from Astrosecrets & K.P., p.35...> > " To say of exaltation,ownership or debilitation,simply on the entering of a Rasi(sign) is not correct,in a sign,in a particular star,in a particular degree-minute only,as the planet moves should be reckoned for exaltation,or debilitation etc..." (italics mine)> > It is thus important to note that exaltation and debilitation has been defined in star and sub terms...and in a particular degree-minute only, as you have quoted...> Also,more importantly,it is clearly stated that exaltation or debilitation does not change/alter the nature of the result...in terms of being benefic or malefic...at the most,it will either hasten or slow down the result...! !> > Therefore I wonder, "in practical terms" how much difference does this really make...and,if so, how can one measure this "accelleration and decelleration,in the number of hours/days/months..etc..".?> If these differences are not quantifiable...simply saying a planet is exalted/debilatated...and therefore...? ? (what do you suggest, we say...which is measureable/quantifiable ?)> > Hence exaltation/debilitation are recognised theoretically (?),in K.P.,but no quantifiable and practical use is given...! ? (This is my personal opinion and also born out of experience).> > I therefore feel that exaltation/debilitation are good points only to debate about...and perhaps put forward to justify a successful or failed prediction ? ?> > Personally I hold a similar view on the various "avasthas"...of planets...as being more of an academic value...in my experience...> > As I have said earlier,astrology should be of practical use,to both,the consultant/client as well as the astrologer...and it must also felt by readers to be truly useful,in practice...> > With regards,> Yours sincerely,> lyrastro1> GOOD LUCK !> > > > > > > >> >>>rongaunt <rongaunt wrote:>>To all members,>>I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the many>KP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegates>or ignores the question of assessing the qualities of each>individual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in the>literature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previous>learning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes.>>What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not consider>exaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & Krishnamurti>Padhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details when>exaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of it>appears to be that they are considered when the planet is in the>same sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation.>>>Ron Gaunt>>>>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote:>>>Dear Sandy,>> I second your suggestion...let us "keep it simple",for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required...>> Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site...>> My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer "skills"(if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed.>> I hope the "computer experts" will bear with me...>> With best wishes,>> lyrastro1>> GOOD LUCK !>>>>Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote:>>>>Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone),>>>> >>>>Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. >>>> >>>>And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime>> today. >>>> >>>>I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone…>>>> >>>>P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either>> accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.)>>>> >>>>My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list.>>>> >>>> All the Best,>>>> Sandy Crowther>>>> http://www.jupitersweb.com>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Yogesh, I don't think it strengthens your case that debilitation and exaltation have little or no significant role to play. Surely, if as I suspect that these conditions depict an abnormality, this needs to be examined because it is going to be very important in the life of the native. Let's have a look at one case that comes to mind. This is Shirley Temple Black child star of the 1930s and later diplomat to a number of countries. Shirley in her early years would have been possibly the best know and loved person in the world. She has a superb chart, with Venus near its highest point of exaltation conjunct Jupiter in its own sign, both on the cusp of the 5th house of entertainment. These were also conjunct 11th house Lord Mercury. In addition Sun is at its highest point of exaltation; and Rahu is exalted in Venus sign Taurus in the 7th house, and Ketu exalted in Scorpio in the 1st. Also Jupiter and Mercury are Vargottama. Shirley's data is: DOB 23 April 1928 9:00 pm, PST +8:00 Santa Monica, California USA 34N1'10 " 118W29'25 I suspect that birth time is slightly later than the published details (not much) ; but for the time being let's stick to the time given as it is rated AA by Astrodatabank. This makes a difference in the subs on the house cusps but not on the starlords, or the planets. Let's now have a look at KP and exaltation. Natal exalted Venus in the same star as the highest point of exaltation, is in the star of Mercury. Mercury is Lord of the 11th house. This young lady's star was really shining brightly and was seen at the very young age of 3 when she started making her 1st film on 18th Dec 1931. Dasas were Rahu/Jupiter/Mercury. Exalted Rahu as sole tenant of Taurus substitutes for Venus and is coupled with powerful Jupiter (natally both in the 5th house of films and entertainment) and Jupiter is Lord of the 5th of entertainment and Mercury Lord of the 11th. It is interesting to note that of the 12 planets (including outers) four planets were in the stars of exalted Rahu or Ketu and another four were in star of Mercury Lord of the 11th. At the time of the previous Solar Eclipse on the 11th Oct 1931 the SE point came Exactly opposition natal Venus Jupiter conjunction. Remember Shirley has a highly exalted Sun. So we see two (natal) exalted planets aspecting each other. At the same time SE Jupiter comes exactly aspect to Venus Jupiter also. Here we see exalted Natal Venus getting primed for a major event. This event happened on the 18th December 1931 when transit Uranus and Moon in exact conjunction triggered natal Venus Jupiter by close conjunction. (note natal Uranus had been primed by an exact transit of Rahu in the last SE) This is what Ebertin states is the probable manifestation of Moon/Uranus - " Sacrifices for the attainment of special aims, help and assistance through friends, the attainment of sudden successes, the accomplishment of a change in one's circumstances " . All this is spot on and this Moon Uranus transit is conjunct to the exalted Venus strong Jupiter natal configuration. Now we can easily relate this to an adult - but what about a 3 year old child?. I would suggest that is solely on the strength and condition of a fantastic Venus (ie exalted) related to the 11th house through star lard Mercury that this quickly propelled her to be the favorite film star in the world. Shirley has a great chart for astrological research. I could point out many interesting facts, but rather than bore members with too many details, I will just mention a couple of points about another milestone in her life. On the 20th May 1985 she was honored to receive a medal from the President of the United states for " Lifetime achievement and Service to the USA and the World " . Here we see transit Venus coming exactly conjunct natal Venus, and transit Rahu coming exactly aspect natal MC. As Rahu substitutes for Venus in Shirley's chart we again see the tremendous part played by an exalted Venus and exalted Rahu (Venus). Her dasas for this event were Mercury Venus Sun ie. both her exalted planets and Mercury Lord of the 11th showing recognition of her great achievements. I think many astrologers would agree that the exaltations in Shirley's chart really do need to be taken into consideration. Ron Gaunt On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:09:58 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Ron, > Doesn't it thus seem to strengthen my case, that debilitation or exaltation have little, or, no significant/measureable role to play, in predictive astrology... ? > My friend,I have asked for concrete examples...precisely because In my own experience I have not found any measureable/quantifiable role that such planets play...(I hope I am not labouring the point.) > I also realise that I could,however, be wrong...or have missed it completely...and that my experience is a pittance as compared to that of Parasara and the many of his stature... who abounded in the past.. > Yours sincerely, > lyrastro1 > GOOD LUCK ! > >rongaunt <rongaunt wrote: > >Yogesh, > >Some years ago I did a study on famous sportsmen expecting to a >find statistically high level of exalted Mars. What I found >surprised me, in that frequently pre eminent sportsmen in fact >had debilitated Mars. Pondering on this I suspected that they >had some type of weakness in a certain area, and used the >principle of over-compensation to achieve success. > >In my own case I have a classical debilitated Mars, and I do have >a Martian problem. I have always lacked physical energy ie I >only have to push a lawn mower once across the lawn, and I feel >as though all my energy is vacating my body. In a few minutes I >feel as though I have run a marathon. As I matured I have >managed better, mainly by eliminating certain foods. >Nevertheless over the years I have compensated for bodily >dysfunction by engaging in mental pursuits. > >On reflection after studying many examples I came to the >conclusion that what exaltation and debilitation showed was a >specific gift or inclination, lack or deficiency. In other >words whilst the planet may function perfectly normal for most >purposes there is one area where it is abnormal. Thinking in >terms of KP it might be that where say Mars is significator for >the 1st, 5th and 10th houses, it may offer excellent results to >the 5th and 10th whilst giving poor results to the 1st. This >presumably would be seen in the quality of the sub or by malefic >association or aspect with reference to the 1st. ie. in KP we >might be able to see in what area an exalted or debilitated >planet functions best or worst. > >I find it interesting that in a way the author of 'Astrosecrets' >Pt 1 page 34 comes up with something similar but more limiting >idea than mine when he says " Ownership exaltation or debilitation >of planets are generally known responsible to indicate the >strength or weakness of a human body constitution from head to >foot, but does not take the responsibility to alter the results >to be offered, say good to bad or bad to good " . I personally >believe that it isn't specific to bodily condition, but can be >any area of life. The crux of the matter appears to me be that >the planet shows a specific limited abnormality - in the normally >accepted qualities of that planet. > >When I get the time I will have a look and see if I can find some >examples that might show exaltation/debilitation in KP. > > >Ron Gaunt > > > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:44:09 +0000, you wrote: > >>Dear Ron, >> The following is being submitted,for yours and the group's serious consideration...and I invite specific examples,in your experiences, clearly illustrating the practical use, of exaltation/debilitation,in predictive K.P.astrology... >> >> Here's a quote from Astrosecrets & K.P., p.35... >> >> " To say of exaltation,ownership or debilitation,simply on the entering of a Rasi(sign) is not correct,in a sign,in a particular star,in a particular degree-minute only,as the planet moves should be reckoned for exaltation,or debilitation etc... " (italics mine) >> >> It is thus important to note that exaltation and debilitation has been defined in star and sub terms...and in a particular degree-minute only, as you have quoted... >> Also,more importantly,it is clearly stated that exaltation or debilitation does not change/alter the nature of the result...in terms of being benefic or malefic...at the most,it will either hasten or slow down the result...! ! >> >> Therefore I wonder, " in practical terms " how much difference does this really make...and,if so, how can one measure this " accelleration and decelleration,in the number of hours/days/months..etc.. " .? >> If these differences are not quantifiable...simply saying a planet is exalted/debilatated...and therefore...? ? (what do you suggest, we say...which is measureable/quantifiable ?) >> >> Hence exaltation/debilitation are recognised theoretically (?),in K.P.,but no quantifiable and practical use is given...! ? (This is my personal opinion and also born out of experience). >> >> I therefore feel that exaltation/debilitation are good points only to debate about...and perhaps put forward to justify a successful or failed prediction ? ? >> >> Personally I hold a similar view on the various " avasthas " ...of planets...as being more of an academic value...in my experience... >> >> As I have said earlier,astrology should be of practical use,to both,the consultant/client as well as the astrologer...and it must also felt by readers to be truly useful,in practice... >> >> With regards, >> Yours sincerely, >> lyrastro1 >> GOOD LUCK ! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>rongaunt <rongaunt wrote: >> >>To all members, >> >>I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the many >>KP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegates >>or ignores the question of assessing the qualities of each >>individual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in the >>literature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previous >>learning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes. >> >>What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not consider >>exaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & Krishnamurti >>Padhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details when >>exaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of it >>appears to be that they are considered when the planet is in the >>same sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation. >> >> >>Ron Gaunt >> >> >> >>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote: >> >>>Dear Sandy, >>> I second your suggestion...let us " keep it simple " ,for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required... >>> Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site... >>> My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer " skills " (if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed. >>> I hope the " computer experts " will bear with me... >>> With best wishes, >>> lyrastro1 >>> GOOD LUCK ! >>> >>>Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote: >>> >>>Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone), >>> >>> >>> >>>Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. >>> >>> >>> >>>And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime >>> today. >>> >>> >>> >>>I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone… >>> >>> >>> >>>P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either >>> accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.) >>> >>> >>> >>>My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list. >>> >>> >>> >>> All the Best, >>> >>> Sandy Crowther >>> >>> http://www.jupitersweb.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Dear Ron, It does,Ron...(even if you keep insisting)...just ponder over... Had any one ever predicted,for sure, that Shirley will become a star...during so and so period ...etc.,before-hand,astrologically ? Or,are we still continuing to,as in the past, attribute "properties" in an effort to rationalise exaltation,"after the event ?" ! Accurate Prognostication,Ron...that's the game...astrology is all about,and that's the only acid test, for the unsurpassed efficacy of a particular system of astrology... Simply saying ..."one day you will become a famous person...",is not enough...a good system should be able to correctly say, when,and during which period one will become world-famous,and in what field... Don't you agree Ron,that,in this direction,K.P.,is extremely accurate,consistently,and very simple,and a great improvement,as compared to any other known system,so far...? ! Yours sincerely, lyrastro1 GOOD LUCK ! rongaunt <rongaunt wrote: Yogesh,I don't think it strengthens your case that debilitation andexaltation have little or no significant role to play. Surely,if as I suspect that these conditions depict an abnormality,this needs to be examined because it is going to be veryimportant in the life of the native.Let's have a look at one case that comes to mind. This isShirley Temple Black child star of the 1930s and later diplomatto a number of countries. Shirley in her early years would havebeen possibly the best know and loved person in the world.She has a superb chart, with Venus near its highest point ofexaltation conjunct Jupiter in its own sign, both on the cusp ofthe 5th house of entertainment. These were also conjunct 11thhouse Lord Mercury. In addition Sun is at its highest point ofexaltation; and Rahu is exalted in Venus sign Taurus in the 7thhouse, and Ketu exalted in Scorpio in the 1st. Also Jupiter andMercury are Vargottama.Shirley's data is:DOB 23 April 1928 9:00 pm, PST +8:00Santa Monica, CaliforniaUSA34N1'10" 118W29'25I suspect that birth time is slightly later than the publisheddetails (not much) ; but for the time being let's stick to thetime given as it is rated AA by Astrodatabank. This makes adifference in the subs on the house cusps but not on thestarlords, or the planets.Let's now have a look at KP and exaltation. Natal exalted Venusin the same star as the highest point of exaltation, is in thestar of Mercury. Mercury is Lord of the 11th house. Thisyoung lady's star was really shining brightly and was seen at thevery young age of 3 when she started making her 1st film on 18thDec 1931. Dasas were Rahu/Jupiter/Mercury. Exalted Rahu assole tenant of Taurus substitutes for Venus and is coupled withpowerful Jupiter (natally both in the 5th house of films andentertainment) and Jupiter is Lord of the 5th of entertainmentand Mercury Lord of the 11th.It is interesting to note that of the 12 planets (includingouters) four planets were in the stars of exalted Rahu or Ketuand another four were in star of Mercury Lord of the 11th.At the time of the previous Solar Eclipse on the 11th Oct 1931the SE point came Exactly opposition natal Venus Jupiterconjunction. Remember Shirley has a highly exalted Sun.So we see two (natal) exalted planets aspecting each other. Atthe same time SE Jupiter comes exactly aspect to Venus Jupiteralso. Here we see exalted Natal Venus getting primed for amajor event.This event happened on the 18th December 1931 when transit Uranusand Moon in exact conjunction triggered natal Venus Jupiter byclose conjunction. (note natal Uranus had been primed by anexact transit of Rahu in the last SE)This is what Ebertin states is the probable manifestation ofMoon/Uranus - "Sacrifices for the attainment of special aims,help and assistance through friends, the attainment of suddensuccesses, the accomplishment of a change in one'scircumstances". All this is spot on and this Moon Uranustransit is conjunct to the exalted Venus strong Jupiter natalconfiguration. Now we can easily relate this to an adult - but what about a 3year old child?. I would suggest that is solely on thestrength and condition of a fantastic Venus (ie exalted) relatedto the 11th house through star lard Mercury that this quicklypropelled her to be the favorite film star in the world.Shirley has a great chart for astrological research. I couldpoint out many interesting facts, but rather than bore memberswith too many details, I will just mention a couple of pointsabout another milestone in her life. On the 20th May 1985she was honored to receive a medal from the President of theUnited states for "Lifetime achievement and Service to the USAand the World". Here we see transit Venus coming exactlyconjunct natal Venus, and transit Rahu coming exactly aspectnatal MC. As Rahu substitutes for Venus in Shirley's chart we again see the tremendous part played by an exalted Venusand exalted Rahu (Venus).Her dasas for this event were Mercury Venus Sun ie. both herexalted planets and Mercury Lord of the 11th showing recognitionof her great achievements. I think many astrologers would agree that the exaltations inShirley's chart really do need to be taken into consideration.Ron GauntOn Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:09:58 +0000, you wrote:>Dear Ron,> Doesn't it thus seem to strengthen my case, that debilitation or exaltation have little, or, no significant/measureable role to play, in predictive astrology... ? > My friend,I have asked for concrete examples...precisely because In my own experience I have not found any measureable/quantifiable role that such planets play...(I hope I am not labouring the point.)> I also realise that I could,however, be wrong...or have missed it completely...and that my experience is a pittance as compared to that of Parasara and the many of his stature... who abounded in the past..> Yours sincerely,> lyrastro1> GOOD LUCK !>>rongaunt <rongaunt wrote:>>Yogesh,>>Some years ago I did a study on famous sportsmen expecting to a>find statistically high level of exalted Mars. What I found>surprised me, in that frequently pre eminent sportsmen in fact>had debilitated Mars. Pondering on this I suspected that they>had some type of weakness in a certain area, and used the>principle of over-compensation to achieve success. >>In my own case I have a classical debilitated Mars, and I do have>a Martian problem. I have always lacked physical energy ie I>only have to push a lawn mower once across the lawn, and I feel>as though all my energy is vacating my body. In a few minutes I>feel as though I have run a marathon. As I matured I have>managed better, mainly by eliminating certain foods.>Nevertheless over the years I have compensated for bodily>dysfunction by engaging in mental pursuits.>>On reflection after studying many examples I came to the>conclusion that what exaltation and debilitation showed was a>specific gift or inclination, lack or deficiency. In other>words whilst the planet may function perfectly normal for most>purposes there is one area where it is abnormal. Thinking in>terms of KP it might be that where say Mars is significator for>the 1st, 5th and 10th houses, it may offer excellent results to>the 5th and 10th whilst giving poor results to the 1st. This>presumably would be seen in the quality of the sub or by malefic>association or aspect with reference to the 1st. ie. in KP we>might be able to see in what area an exalted or debilitated>planet functions best or worst. >>I find it interesting that in a way the author of 'Astrosecrets'>Pt 1 page 34 comes up with something similar but more limiting>idea than mine when he says "Ownership exaltation or debilitation>of planets are generally known responsible to indicate the>strength or weakness of a human body constitution from head to>foot, but does not take the responsibility to alter the results>to be offered, say good to bad or bad to good". I personally>believe that it isn't specific to bodily condition, but can be>any area of life. The crux of the matter appears to me be that>the planet shows a specific limited abnormality - in the normally>accepted qualities of that planet. >>When I get the time I will have a look and see if I can find some>examples that might show exaltation/debilitation in KP.>>>Ron Gaunt >>>>>On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:44:09 +0000, you wrote:>>>Dear Ron,>> The following is being submitted,for yours and the group's serious consideration...and I invite specific examples,in your experiences, clearly illustrating the practical use, of exaltation/debilitation,in predictive K.P.astrology...>> >> Here's a quote from Astrosecrets & K.P., p.35...>> >> " To say of exaltation,ownership or debilitation,simply on the entering of a Rasi(sign) is not correct,in a sign,in a particular star,in a particular degree-minute only,as the planet moves should be reckoned for exaltation,or debilitation etc..." (italics mine)>> >> It is thus important to note that exaltation and debilitation has been defined in star and sub terms...and in a particular degree-minute only, as you have quoted...>> Also,more importantly,it is clearly stated that exaltation or debilitation does not change/alter the nature of the result...in terms of being benefic or malefic...at the most,it will either hasten or slow down the result...! !>> >> Therefore I wonder, "in practical terms" how much difference does this really make...and,if so, how can one measure this "accelleration and decelleration,in the number of hours/days/months..etc..".?>> If these differences are not quantifiable...simply saying a planet is exalted/debilatated...and therefore...? ? (what do you suggest, we say...which is measureable/quantifiable ?)>> >> Hence exaltation/debilitation are recognised theoretically (?),in K.P.,but no quantifiable and practical use is given...! ? (This is my personal opinion and also born out of experience).>> >> I therefore feel that exaltation/debilitation are good points only to debate about...and perhaps put forward to justify a successful or failed prediction ? ?>> >> Personally I hold a similar view on the various "avasthas"...of planets...as being more of an academic value...in my experience...>> >> As I have said earlier,astrology should be of practical use,to both,the consultant/client as well as the astrologer...and it must also felt by readers to be truly useful,in practice...>> >> With regards,>> Yours sincerely,>> lyrastro1>> GOOD LUCK !>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >>>>>>rongaunt <rongaunt wrote:>>>>To all members,>>>>I haven't yet got round to even skimming through some of the many>>KP books I have received, so I do not know whether KP relegates>>or ignores the question of assessing the qualities of each>>individual planet. I would imagine that somewhere in the>>literature this point is covered. Meanwhile I use my previous>>learning to assess the quality of a sub and its likely outcomes.>>>>What I am leading to is the point made, that KP does not consider>>exaltation and debilitation. In 'Astrosecrets & Krishnamurti>>Padhadhati' April 2003 Edition pages 34 to 38 details when>>exaltation and debilitation ARE considered. The gist of it>>appears to be that they are considered when the planet is in the>>same sub as the highest point of exaltation or debilitation.>>>>>>Ron Gaunt>>>>>>>>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:46:06 +0000, you wrote:>>>>>Dear Sandy,>>> I second your suggestion...let us "keep it simple",for the obvious ease of access...and reduced 'navigation'...possibly required...>>> Also, we will all operate under the k_p_group umbrella...and thus remain on an easily identifiable as well as accessible site...>>> My use of the computer is very limited indeed,restricted to K.P., and surfing BBC,CNN and the usual Samachar ...hence my computer "skills"(if you can call them so...) are minimal...indeed.>>> I hope the "computer experts" will bear with me...>>> With best wishes,>>> lyrastro1>>> GOOD LUCK !>>>>>>Sandy Crowther <sandy wrote:>>>>>>Dear tw, Anant, Kanak, lyastro 1, Punit Pandey, and ALL (hopefully I didn’t miss anyone),>>>>>> >>>>>>Thank you all very much for sharing your knowledge, experience, research, opinions, references, and comments to my (often) endless questions on KP, and I certainly appreciate you taking the time to do so. >>>>>> >>>>>>And to my delight, some of you even threw in a few “extra” tidbits of KP information that I found extremely interesting – and matters that I was not at all aware of KP’s stance on - so thanks very much for elaborating. For example, I had no idea that exaltation and debilitation were not considered in KP – that only retrogression is considered. So considerations of planets being hosted by a friend or enemy - or their compound relationships - obviously have no place in KP due to emphasis and placement of star and sub lords taking precedence. But if Vargottama IS referenced in a few of the 6 KP Readers as a viable and acceptable Rasi companion for planetary assessments in KP, specifically used for assessing planetary strength as mentioned, the Navamsa chart MUST be referenced at some level - Right? I mean, we cannot have Vargottama without Navamsa (Uh-oh – Here we go with that 4 letter word again “amsa” J). So anyway, I’m now off to do a bit of KP research myself - hopefully sometime>>> today. >>>>>> >>>>>>I think we ALL need to be on the same page as far as what is and isn’t an accepted part of KP to date – and then be able to back up with references in at least one of the 6 KP Readers. (Just my not so humble opinion guys J). I know as astrologers, we will always have our own style and preferences when it comes to chart analysis and delineation – which we should have – we are all individuals. But it looks to me like many things are still wide open for research – Ooohhh - I only wish there were more hours in the day. Anyway – Thanks so much again to everyone…>>>>>> >>>>>>P.S. To Ron Gaunt: I think your idea of opening another KP list, is a suggestion put forth with a pioneering spirit in mind of your greatness for researching techniques to attain predictive accuracy – which you know I’m certainly ALL FOR – BUT - 7 months ago I vowed to never to another list due to time constraints – and here I am. I cannot handle another list’s email at this time. J Perhaps a more viable solution (if moderator approved here on this KP list) would be to simply add a rider (or addendum) to the bottom of any chart assessment posted on this list, where an analysis has been done correctly, but a KP technique was not used in that particular part of the assessment of the chart to reach that correct result, and then clearly stating that the method used is not an accepted part of KP, just a particular technique you personally found reliably consistent for predictive purposes – like your usage of Solar Eclipses. That way it is left up to the list member to either>>> accept or reject the technique because it is or is not KP approved, read it or not at the bottom of the email, and there is no confusion as to what is and isn’t (to date) an accepted part of KP. And at the same time, we need not be silenced, as individual astrologers, for sharing a technique that is not part of KP – as long as it is in rider/attachment form. This would accommodate all minds on the list. (You and the list all know that we, as astrologers, will NEVER stop using what works for us J – even if we are silenced from sharing how we (personally) reached the correct conclusion - so this is just a suggestion to accommodate everyone under one KP forum.)>>>>>> >>>>>>My 2 cents – but totally up to the Moderators of this list.>>>>>> >>>>>> All the Best,>>>>>> Sandy Crowther>>>>>> http://www.jupitersweb.com>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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