Mr.Sekhri's Concerns

March 31, 2005

Dear Sir

I believe that Not only "Astrology", but, rather every thing is more

an Art than Science. After applying the rules to the horoscope, an Astrologer

should also "Feel" something for giving a Correct Answer. Predicting the

correct thing is "definitely" a Skill.

Regards

Abhay

Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy wrote:

Dear Mr.Sekhri,

Your frustration (perhaps some anger too) is understandable. My

thoughts are very much along yours. However, we should separate

the

var

March 31, 2005

Dear Mr.Sekhri,

Your frustration (perhaps some anger too) is understandable. My

thoughts are very much along yours. However, we should separate the

various concerns and study them independently:

1) Is astrology a science, in the sense of other " sciences " such as

Mathematics, Physics, etc? Although we would like astrology to be as

scientific as these other acknowledged sciences, I feel that is

going to be extremely difficult. Shri.KSK achieved a remarkable feat

in establishing the principles of sublord, etc., but I feel some of

the ideas are not " precisely " expounded, or they continue to be a

lot subjective. If he were alive today, KP system could have become

more of a science than it is believed to be, but unfortunately we

have to try and understand his ideas based only on his writings, and

the assistance of some of his students or people who had interacted

with him. I think there is a strong need for experienced KP

stalwarts to write a new book (or a series of books) on KP system,

explaining the principles clearly and substantiating with examples.

Many of the articles I have read, or even the standard KP Readers,

contain superficial or contradictory statements that can confuse

beginners. Take the simple example of Rahu/Ketu treatment. You will

find that the interpretation is not unique. I can give some more

examples. As I said, if KSK were alive, we could ask him, but what

now?

I think KP system is not yet " scientific " in the sense that the

principles are not precisely/unambiguously spelt out (of course,

astronomy, the basis for astrology is a science). However, I have

heard some KP astrologers give correct predictions also. Does this

make it an " art " ? My understanding is that at this point, KP system

is more of an art than a science. That is why you see many

astrologers differing on the same chart.

2) When a prediction given by an astrologer fails, should the

failure be attributed to astrology or to the astrologer?

We must understand that even in other sciences, the practitioner can

fail. For example, if 100 persons are given the same math problem to

solve, it is unlikely that all 100 will get the correct answer

(except for a trivial problem). Here the failure is that of the

student and not of Mathematics. In the case of astrology, which I

hold is not yet a science, the failure can sometimes be attributed

to imprecision in the way a principle in the system is expounded,

understood and practised.

3) When an astrologer collects fees for his services and his

prediction fails, can we conclude that he has " cheated " ? Is that a

crime? Consider a medical doctor who collects money for

consultations, but fails to cure the patient (or the patient dies).

Has the doctor cheated? Is that a crime? If the doctor is a " quack " ,

i.e., he does not have the proper qualification, then it could be

called cheating. If the doctor is genuine and the patient does not

get cured despite the best efforts of the doctor, then it cannot be

cheating. One important difference between the example of a doctor

and astrologer is that the doctor qualifies to practise by going

through considerable hardship - formal course, exams, working with

other seniors, etc. This is (generally) not true in the case of

astrology. As you have observed, your " certification " has not

helped. Even more, you have said that predictions of your teachers

have failed. I also did the basic course at Chennai, and I am not

confident of my understanding of the subject. I sincerely believe I

am partly to blame for this plight. That is one of the reasons for

my participating in this forum. The point I am making is that we

should elevate study of astrology to a more rigorous, formal

education than what it is today (of course our politicians will be

against this!)

4) Kindly note that if someone had observed that free consultations

cannot be given in this forum, that could be a " correct " principle

according to this forum. I am not the moderator, so I can't judge.

However, this issue does not have any bearing on the other points

mentioned in this list.

I hope you will agree with at least some of my points.

Regards,

Rangarajan

, mukesh sekhri <sekhri14>

wrote:

>

> Dear Group members and moderators,

> I fully agree with

> Raju,as I have been keenly following as to all the

> great astrologer's have been guiding about Raju

> Bokariya.

> I find they have been checking only one chart and

> giving different answers.I have been a follower of

> astrology for the past thirty years and been in

> contact with many renowned astrologers,but sorry to

> state that when their predictions fail they start to

> take up the case like a dead body in the hands of

> surgeons,who perform an autopsy to find the cause of

> death,secondly they have only interest in their fees

> which they take in advance and upto the extent they

> stop replying to the consultant after their

> predictions fail.

> I am really surprised to note that such an honorable

> science as astrology which has been given a new light

> by the great people like Prof KSK is being used as a

> money making machine and the common person has no

> benefit from the same,even the people who pay the

> astrologers do not gain any positive results.It is the

> astrologers who gain and benefit by stating they are

> the followers of the different systems of astrology.

> The reason behind my writing all this is that some

> astrologers still feel that it is a profession and no

> free consultation should be given to any member of the

> group.

> I had posted my query and got no response,the only

> answer I saw was that no free service should be

> provided,whereas I could have given the great

> astrologers an example to study a chart of my own

> daughter who was born deaf.

> Sorry to say that is what I have observed even after

> completing my Jyotish Visarath course from KP

> followers in Chennai and all their predictions have

> also failed.

> I know I am hurting the feeling's of the

> professionals in this trade as they have made it,but

> they should also the way they are hurting the feelings

> of the mankind.

> MUKESH KUMAR SEKHRI.

>

___________________

___

> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online

> Go to: http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony

March 31, 2005

Dear Sekhri ji/ Rangarajan ji and friends,

I, being a moderator, must emphasize here again that free consultation

is NOT prohibited here.

Also sometimes discussions like these can result in lack of focus for

the forum. I request forum members to raise such issues with caution

and intelligence.

Regards,

Punit Pandey

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:19:18 -0000, Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy

<ranga wrote:

>

> Dear Mr.Sekhri,

> Your frustration (perhaps some anger too) is understandable. My

> thoughts are very much along yours. However, we should separate the

> various concerns and study them independently:

> 1) Is astrology a science, in the sense of other " sciences " such as

> Mathematics, Physics, etc? Although we would like astrology to be as

> scientific as these other acknowledged sciences, I feel that is

> going to be extremely difficult. Shri.KSK achieved a remarkable feat

> in establishing the principles of sublord, etc., but I feel some of

> the ideas are not " precisely " expounded, or they continue to be a

> lot subjective. If he were alive today, KP system could have become

> more of a science than it is believed to be, but unfortunately we

> have to try and understand his ideas based only on his writings, and

> the assistance of some of his students or people who had interacted

> with him. I think there is a strong need for experienced KP

> stalwarts to write a new book (or a series of books) on KP system,

> explaining the principles clearly and substantiating with examples.

> Many of the articles I have read, or even the standard KP Readers,

> contain superficial or contradictory statements that can confuse

> beginners. Take the simple example of Rahu/Ketu treatment. You will

> find that the interpretation is not unique. I can give some more

> examples. As I said, if KSK were alive, we could ask him, but what

> now?

> I think KP system is not yet " scientific " in the sense that the

> principles are not precisely/unambiguously spelt out (of course,

> astronomy, the basis for astrology is a science). However, I have

> heard some KP astrologers give correct predictions also. Does this

> make it an " art " ? My understanding is that at this point, KP system

> is more of an art than a science. That is why you see many

> astrologers differing on the same chart.

> 2) When a prediction given by an astrologer fails, should the

> failure be attributed to astrology or to the astrologer?

> We must understand that even in other sciences, the practitioner can

> fail. For example, if 100 persons are given the same math problem to

> solve, it is unlikely that all 100 will get the correct answer

> (except for a trivial problem). Here the failure is that of the

> student and not of Mathematics. In the case of astrology, which I

> hold is not yet a science, the failure can sometimes be attributed

> to imprecision in the way a principle in the system is expounded,

> understood and practised.

> 3) When an astrologer collects fees for his services and his

> prediction fails, can we conclude that he has " cheated " ? Is that a

> crime? Consider a medical doctor who collects money for

> consultations, but fails to cure the patient (or the patient dies).

> Has the doctor cheated? Is that a crime? If the doctor is a " quack " ,

> i.e., he does not have the proper qualification, then it could be

> called cheating. If the doctor is genuine and the patient does not

> get cured despite the best efforts of the doctor, then it cannot be

> cheating. One important difference between the example of a doctor

> and astrologer is that the doctor qualifies to practise by going

> through considerable hardship - formal course, exams, working with

> other seniors, etc. This is (generally) not true in the case of

> astrology. As you have observed, your " certification " has not

> helped. Even more, you have said that predictions of your teachers

> have failed. I also did the basic course at Chennai, and I am not

> confident of my understanding of the subject. I sincerely believe I

> am partly to blame for this plight. That is one of the reasons for

> my participating in this forum. The point I am making is that we

> should elevate study of astrology to a more rigorous, formal

> education than what it is today (of course our politicians will be

> against this!)

> 4) Kindly note that if someone had observed that free consultations

> cannot be given in this forum, that could be a " correct " principle

> according to this forum. I am not the moderator, so I can't judge.

> However, this issue does not have any bearing on the other points

> mentioned in this list.

>

> I hope you will agree with at least some of my points.

>

> Regards,

> Rangarajan

>

> , mukesh sekhri <sekhri14>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Group members and moderators,

> > I fully agree with

> > Raju,as I have been keenly following as to all the

> > great astrologer's have been guiding about Raju

> > Bokariya.

> > I find they have been checking only one chart and

> > giving different answers.I have been a follower of

> > astrology for the past thirty years and been in

> > contact with many renowned astrologers,but sorry to

> > state that when their predictions fail they start to

> > take up the case like a dead body in the hands of

> > surgeons,who perform an autopsy to find the cause of

> > death,secondly they have only interest in their fees

> > which they take in advance and upto the extent they

> > stop replying to the consultant after their

> > predictions fail.

> > I am really surprised to note that such an honorable

> > science as astrology which has been given a new light

> > by the great people like Prof KSK is being used as a

> > money making machine and the common person has no

> > benefit from the same,even the people who pay the

> > astrologers do not gain any positive results.It is the

> > astrologers who gain and benefit by stating they are

> > the followers of the different systems of astrology.

> > The reason behind my writing all this is that some

> > astrologers still feel that it is a profession and no

> > free consultation should be given to any member of the

> > group.

> > I had posted my query and got no response,the only

> > answer I saw was that no free service should be

> > provided,whereas I could have given the great

> > astrologers an example to study a chart of my own

> > daughter who was born deaf.

> > Sorry to say that is what I have observed even after

> > completing my Jyotish Visarath course from KP

> > followers in Chennai and all their predictions have

> > also failed.

> > I know I am hurting the feeling's of the

> > professionals in this trade as they have made it,but

> > they should also the way they are hurting the feelings

> > of the mankind.

> > MUKESH KUMAR SEKHRI.

> >

> ___________________

> ___

> > India Matrimony: Find your life partner online

> > Go to: http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony

>

April 1, 2005

Dear Abhay,

1. That is true that Predicting the correct thing is " definitely " a

Skill. KSK says, " Many general rules which should not be strictly

applied. Many modifications are to be included.--- Analytical study,

correct intuition and good judgment are needed -– " (KP Reader III) B.

V. Raman says, " Astrology is a subject where not only an insightinto

its techniques is needed but also certain amount of intuition.

Experience can gradually make appreciate the nuances of the

predictive art. (A Note On Problems In Prediction, by Pemmaraju

V.R.Rayudu)

2. I fully agree with Rangarajan that KP is not a science like

Mathematics or Physics because its rules cannot be tested like in

those sciences. It can be an Artistic Science as mentioned by Sandy

in Msg #2081.

3. K.P. advancement is in the opposite direction what Rangarajan is

wishing. What I mean is, can " any member " can present a " single "

case even for " only one event " , say marriage or foreign travel, by

sub sub theory introduced in KP Annuals to access whether it is

consistent with Guruji KSK's intention, i.e. " K.P. can be followed by

even a layman not knowing , previously, anything about astrology. " ?

(KP Reader VI, p 67).

Thanks and best regards,

tw

, Abhay Godse <abhaygodse@e...>

wrote:

>

April 2, 2005

Dear tw853,

In my humble opinion,"The Practice of a science is an Art..."

With best wishes,

lyrastro1

GOOD LUCK !

tw853 <tw853 wrote:

Dear Abhay,1. That is true that Predicting the correct thing is "definitely" a Skill. KSK says, "Many general rules which should not be strictly applied. Many modifications are to be included.--- Analytical study, correct intuition and good judgment are needed -–" (KP Reader III) B. V. Raman says, "Astrology is a subject where not only an insightinto its techniques is needed but also certain amount of intuition. Experience can gradually make appreciate the nuances of the predictive art. (A Note On Problems In Prediction, by Pemmaraju V.R.Rayudu)2. I fully agree with Rangarajan that KP is not a science like Mathematics or Physics because its rules cannot be tested like in those sciences. It can be an Artistic Science as mentioned by Sandy in Msg #2081. 3. K.P. advancement is

in the opposite direction what Rangarajan is wishing. What I mean is, can "any member" can present a "single" case even for "only one event" , say marriage or foreign travel, by sub sub theory introduced in KP Annuals to access whether it is consistent with Guruji KSK's intention, i.e. "K.P. can be followed by even a layman not knowing , previously, anything about astrology." ? (KP Reader VI, p 67).Thanks and best regards,tw , Abhay Godse <abhaygodse@e...> wrote:>

India Matrimony: Find your life partner

online.