Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Dear Chandra Prakash, I pray that Pandit Roopchand ji blesses you and your group. My blessings to your group and may your efforts enrich the understanding of the Lal Kitab. Yes, three conditions have to be met before a Pitri Rin is declared in a horoscope. There is yet another condition, you might call it the 4th condition, which in fact is a sub-set of the first condition. This also has to be fulfilled. The first condition is : “ ghar nauve ho grah koi baitha, budh baitha jar sathis jo” Here it is important that the planet placed in the 9th house should also per se be manda { ashubh }. The lal Kitab { urdu 1952 ed } on page 122 last line says, “ khulasa : janma kundali mein jis grah ki jar { uski apani rasi} mein uska dushman grah baith kar { page 123 } uska phal raddi kar raha ho aur saath hi woh grah khud bhi manda ho raha ho to rin pitri hoga” Notice the words “ aur saath hi woh grah khud bhi manda ho raha ho” woh grah khud = planet placed in the 9th If the planet placed in the 9th house is not weak or manda then also this condition will not be fulfilled. Now let us take an example: Moon is placed in the 9th house, mercury is placed in the kark rasi { cancer } and the Jupiter is placed in the 5th house. At the first glance the condition # 1 is fulfilled. But is moon manda here ? No. It gets the aspect of Jupiter who not only owns the land of the 9th house but the house on it also belongs to Jupiter. Therefore the aspect of Jupiter on the moon does not let moon get manda. Therefore do not forget this sub-condition. Call it what ever you want , fourth condition or the sub condition of the first condition, but it is equally important. Incidentally this sub-condition was the only condition which found a mention in 1941 book In your opening statement you have , on the issue as to why the concept of pitri rin was not explained by Pandit ji in some detail, you have said, In my opinion there could be either of the two possibilities : one that the concept of Pitri Rin had not crystallized , till 1952 , in the mind of Pandit ji. Secondly he did not think it important enough as to include a section on Pitri Rin , in some detail, in the books published prior to 1952. I tend to accept both the possibilities. I disagree with you. I do not think that there was anything which was not crystallized in the mind of Pandit ji. He was a siddha purush who could fore see every thing. I would agree with the second option. Yes, he did not think pitri rin as a very crucial issue which should have found mention in his earlier books. Since the 1952 edition was a comprehensive enlarged edition he thought of adding a section on it. You are having a good debate. Keep it up. May God bless you all. Bhooshan Priya Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Dear Ratnakar ji, What you have said may or may not be true in all cases. So long as the indication of a Pitri Rin is established in a kundali and is corroborated by the events/happenings in the family , the upaya for the pitri rin is called for. It is not neccessary that one or more planets are consistently manda or badly placed in the kundalis of the rest of the family; they may or may not be. Just thinking loud. regards, Chandra Prakash , " ratnakardubey " <ratnakardubey wrote: > > Sir, > > There will be one more thing noticed in the kundalis of the family > under the Rin that one or two planets will be consistantly manda in > them. > These manda planets may not have any thing to do with the Rin as > such. For example either of the papi grah could be manda in the > majority of the kundalis in that family although the Rin may be of > Jupiter and Mercury. > I do not think that the Pitri Rin is a common thing.jab koi aur > karan samajh mein na araha ho to Pitri Rin par bhi ek nazar mar leni > chahiye. > Pt. Krishna Ashaant ji has said that there are three conditions of > Pitri Rin and the upaya should be done for two planets and not one. > Pt. Krishna ashaant ji bhi Pitri Rin ko uljhana ke grah naam ke > chapter ka hissa mante hain > > faithfully, > > Ratnakar > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > Dear Kiranjit ji, > > > > Yes you are very right that the Pitri Rin will be indicated at > least > > in one kundali of that family line. And if it is indicated then > the > > upaya should be done by collecting the share of upaya from the > whole > > family. > > Could you please express your opinion on other questions also that > > are of concern. These questions or discussion points are given at > > the end of the note. > > It will be a very valuable contribution to the topic. > > > > With regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kapatjal " > > <kapatjal@> wrote: > > > > > > dear tyagi ji, > > > the explanation is excellent.But I think,if one 's horoscope is > > > afflicted with pitri rin, the pitri rin shall affect at least > one > > > male line of that family;suppose one has 3sons;the pitri rin > shall > > > appear in alteast one of the sones and his line of male members. > > > that is is why it is necessary to do the remedy so that whole > > > khaandaan of that line gets rid of ptri rin. > > > sincerely, > > > kiranjeet the male members of that line--- In > > > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear sirs > > > > > > > > > > > > Since we enjoy the wealth, name and fame earned by our > > ancestors > > > we are equally liable to suffer and pay for their misdeeds too. > > The > > > dosh created as a result of the bad deeds by our ancestors is > > > paitrik-dosh or pitra-rin . Pitri rin is different from the > `pitri- > > > shraap' or the curse of the ancestors. The `pitri-shraap' is a > > > result of the ancestors cursing their progeny for having > > misbehaved > > > with them, having ignored them or for not having followed the > > family > > > traditions. > > > > > > > > Even in the legal system we are held responsible for the > > debts > > > of our forefathers similarly in astrology too we have to pay > their > > > debts. > > > > > > > > Brahat parashar gives 14 kinds of pitra-dosh, Mantreshwar in > > > Phal Deepika says that rahu in the 5th creates pishach-badha, > > Gopal > > > Ratnakar calls it sarp-shraap. In the traditional vedic > astrology > > > Rahu is considered the main cause of these dosh . > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab in its 1952 edition discusses this problem in > great > > > detail along with its remedies. I quote from Lal Kitab : > > > > > > > > {ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha,budh baitha jad saathi ho > > > > rin pitri us ghar se hoga ,asar grah sab nisphal ho ; > > > > saathi grah jab jad koi kate ,drishti magar wo chhupta ho > > > > paanch ,barah, do, nau koi mande, rin pitri ban jaata ho } > > > > > > > > These lines describe THREE conditions of pitra-rin: > > > > > > > > [ 1 ] ' ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha , budh baitha jad > saathi > > > > ho ' ---- If there is a planet in the 9th house and Mercury > > > occupies the rashi { sign } of that planet then it will be a > pitr- > > > rin kundali. For example jupiter is in the 9th house and if > > mercury > > > is in either sagittarius or pisces , or suppose venus is in the > > 9th > > > house and mercury is placed in either taurus or libra then there > > > will be an indication of a possible `pitri rin' > > > > > > > > [ 2 ] ' saathi grah jab jad koi kate , drishti magar wo > > chhuptaa > > > > ho ' --- when the enemy planets occupy a rashi and is not > > > aspected by the rashi lord , the kundali will be of pitr-rin. > For > > > example if the enemy planets of saturn like sun , moon or mars > > > occupy either makar or kumbha and if the Saturn doesn't have an > > > aspect on that rasi , there could be a possibility of a `pitri > > rin' . > > > > > > > > [ 3 ] 'paanch barah nau do koi mande , rin pitra ban jaata > > ho' -- > > > - if there is an enemy planet of Jupiter like venus or mercury > in > > > the 5th , 12th , 9th and 2nd then also it will be a pitr-rin > > > kundali . > > > > > > > > {of the three couplets the first two talk of the rasi and > the > > > third one talks of the pakka ghar of Jupiter.} > > > > > > > > > > > > The Lal kitab suggests remedies in detail for pitr-rin > arising > > > out of such situations . It provides the detailed cause of these > > > debts, the planet involved and its remedies. > > > > > > > > Now how to go about suggesting upaya for `Pitri-Rin'? It is > a > > > three step process : > > > > > > > > Step 1 > > > > > > > > Make sure that all the three conditions laid down are > > fulfilled. > > > If only one or two conditions are fulfilled then the horoscope > > will > > > not have a `pitri Rin' dosh. All the three conditions have to be > > > fulfilled. This will indicate the planet causing the `rin'. > > > > > > > > Step 2 > > > > > > > > If the three conditions are fulfilled and the planet > > identified, > > > then the next step is to verify the indications of `pitri rin' > for > > > that particular planet. The Lal Kitab gives a detailed list of > > > indications for each planet causing `pitri rin' > > > > > > > > Step 3 > > > > > > > > After having completed the first two steps, it becomes > obvious > > > that the native is suffering from a `rin'. The third step is to > > > confirm this phenomenon from a few other horoscopes of the > family > > > members. If there is a `rin' on the family it should be > reflected > > in > > > a few, if not all , horoscopes from the same family. > > > > > > > > > > [ from the notes of my guru ji ] > > > > > > > > There can be a situation where the Rin is not indicated in > > other > > > kundalis of the family. Take the example of the son of a doctor > > who > > > destroys the girl child fetus after ascertaining the sex of the > > > embryo. Now the father is committing a sin against kanyas. This > > Rin > > > could get reflected in the kundali of his progeny but not in > other > > > kundalis of the family. Therefore even if the Rin is detected > in > > > one single kundali the upaya should be done. > > > > The third step is primarily to ascertain the severity and > the > > > expanse of the curse. > > > > > > > > A few questions that are of concern and need to be > discussed : > > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Is Pitri Rin a common occurrence ? Or it is a rare > > > combination. > > > > > > > > I feel that it is a very rare occurrence. There will be just > a > > > few horoscopes out of a thousand which will qualify under all > the > > > three conditions. The frequency of occurrence can not be 33% as > > > claimed by some, it will be some thing like .005%. > > > > > > > > [ 2 ] What is the over all relevance of this combination > while > > > studying a horoscope? What did Pandit Roop Chand ji { peace be > > upon > > > him} feel about it? > > > > It is only in the 1952 edition that Pitri Rin is explained > in > > > some detail. In 1941 edition { gutka } it finds a mention under > > the > > > section `Rin' in the form of a table for planet and the kind of > > rin. > > > At the end of the table there are two lines like a foot note > > > saying, " jis grah ki jar mein uska dushman jab phal barbaad kar > > > raha ho, aur khud bhi woh grah manda ho raha ho to pitri rin > hoga " > > > > In my opinion there could be either of the two > possibilities : > > > one that the concept of Pitri Rin had not crystallized , till > > 1952 , > > > in the mind of Pandit ji. Secondly he did not think it important > > > enough as to include a section on Pitri Rin , in some detail, in > > the > > > books published prior to 1952. > > > > > > > > I tend to accept both the possibilities. > > > > > > > > [ 3 ] Are there two conditions to be fulfilled or there are > > > three conditions to be fulfilled? > > > > > > > > I adhere to the three conditions which are enumerated above. > > > > > > > > [ 4 ] Is the upaya to be done for two planets or for one? > > > > Recently some one claimed having seen four kundalis where > he > > > claims that pandit ji had suggested Pitri Rin upaya for one > planet > > > in each kundali. > > > > > > > > I feel that the upaya has to be done for two planets and not > > > one: `jo grah nikamma ho gaya hai aur doosara jisne pahale grah > ko > > > nikamma kiya hai' i.e. the upaya has to be done for two planets > > one > > > that has been afflicted and the other which has afflicted the > > first > > > one. > > > > If an upaya has been suggested only for one planet then it > > could > > > be an upaya for any thing else but not an upaya for pitri rin. > > > > > > > > [ 5 ] Is it necessary that the Pitri Rin has to be evident > in > > a > > > few more kundalis of the family? > > > > I think no. > > > > I have quoted a situation above where it is evident that the > > rin > > > will be reflected only in the kundali of the progeny of the > doctor > > > and not in the kundali of the doctor or his generation. > > > > > > > > [ 6 ] Is the chapter on Pitri Rin titled as ` uljhan ke grah > ` > > > in the 1952 urdu edition? > > > > > > > > Yes. I am uploading the page 121 and page 122 of the lal > > Kitab > > > urdu edition in the file section for every one to see. The > chapter > > > on Pitri Rin starts at 121, the title page. > > > > If some one claims that pandit ji meant some thing else > > > by `uljhan ke grah' and not the pitri rin, then let him come out > > > with it. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > Chandra Prakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - > > Answers > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 dear sir, u r right. the remedy has to be undertaken for both the grah,grah itself and the other jo jad mein baitha ho; and the remedy has to be undertaken for 41 to 43 weeks and not 41 or 43 days. sincerely, kiranjeetratnakardubey <ratnakardubey wrote: Sir,There will be one more thing noticed in the kundalis of the family under the Rin that one or two planets will be consistantly manda in them. These manda planets may not have any thing to do with the Rin as such. For example either of the papi grah could be manda in the majority of the kundalis in that family although the Rin may be of Jupiter and Mercury.I do not think that the Pitri Rin is a common thing.jab koi aur karan samajh mein na araha ho to Pitri Rin par bhi ek nazar mar leni chahiye.Pt. Krishna Ashaant ji has said that there are three conditions of Pitri Rin and the upaya should be done for two planets and not one. Pt. Krishna ashaant ji bhi Pitri Rin ko uljhana ke grah naam ke chapter ka hissa mante hainfaithfully,Ratnakar , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote:>> Dear Kiranjit ji,> > Yes you are very right that the Pitri Rin will be indicated at least > in one kundali of that family line. And if it is indicated then the > upaya should be done by collecting the share of upaya from the whole > family.> Could you please express your opinion on other questions also that > are of concern. These questions or discussion points are given at > the end of the note.> It will be a very valuable contribution to the topic.> > With regards,> > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > , "kapatjal" > <kapatjal@> wrote:> >> > dear tyagi ji,> > the explanation is excellent.But I think,if one 's horoscope is > > afflicted with pitri rin, the pitri rin shall affect at least one > > male line of that family;suppose one has 3sons;the pitri rin shall > > appear in alteast one of the sones and his line of male members.> > that is is why it is necessary to do the remedy so that whole > > khaandaan of that line gets rid of ptri rin.> > sincerely,> > kiranjeet the male members of that line> > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > Dear sirs> > > > > > > > > Since we enjoy the wealth, name and fame earned by our > ancestors > > we are equally liable to suffer and pay for their misdeeds too. > The > > dosh created as a result of the bad deeds by our ancestors is > > paitrik-dosh or pitra-rin . Pitri rin is different from the `pitri-> > shraap' or the curse of the ancestors. The `pitri-shraap' is a > > result of the ancestors cursing their progeny for having > misbehaved > > with them, having ignored them or for not having followed the > family > > traditions.> > > > > > Even in the legal system we are held responsible for the > debts > > of our forefathers similarly in astrology too we have to pay their > > debts. > > > > > > Brahat parashar gives 14 kinds of pitra-dosh, Mantreshwar in > > Phal Deepika says that rahu in the 5th creates pishach-badha, > Gopal > > Ratnakar calls it sarp-shraap. In the traditional vedic astrology > > Rahu is considered the main cause of these dosh .> > > > > > Lal Kitab in its 1952 edition discusses this problem in great > > detail along with its remedies. I quote from Lal Kitab :> > > > > > {ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha,budh baitha jad saathi ho> > > rin pitri us ghar se hoga ,asar grah sab nisphal ho ;> > > saathi grah jab jad koi kate ,drishti magar wo chhupta ho> > > paanch ,barah, do, nau koi mande, rin pitri ban jaata ho }> > > > > > These lines describe THREE conditions of pitra-rin:> > > > > > [ 1 ] ' ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha , budh baitha jad saathi> > > ho ' ---- If there is a planet in the 9th house and Mercury > > occupies the rashi { sign } of that planet then it will be a pitr-> > rin kundali. For example jupiter is in the 9th house and if > mercury > > is in either sagittarius or pisces , or suppose venus is in the > 9th > > house and mercury is placed in either taurus or libra then there > > will be an indication of a possible `pitri rin'> > > > > > [ 2 ] ' saathi grah jab jad koi kate , drishti magar wo > chhuptaa> > > ho ' --- when the enemy planets occupy a rashi and is not > > aspected by the rashi lord , the kundali will be of pitr-rin. For > > example if the enemy planets of saturn like sun , moon or mars > > occupy either makar or kumbha and if the Saturn doesn't have an > > aspect on that rasi , there could be a possibility of a `pitri > rin' .> > > > > > [ 3 ] 'paanch barah nau do koi mande , rin pitra ban jaata > ho' --> > - if there is an enemy planet of Jupiter like venus or mercury in > > the 5th , 12th , 9th and 2nd then also it will be a pitr-rin > > kundali .> > > > > > {of the three couplets the first two talk of the rasi and the > > third one talks of the pakka ghar of Jupiter.} > > > > > > > > > The Lal kitab suggests remedies in detail for pitr-rin arising > > out of such situations . It provides the detailed cause of these > > debts, the planet involved and its remedies. > > > > > > Now how to go about suggesting upaya for `Pitri-Rin'? It is a > > three step process :> > > > > > Step 1 > > > > > > Make sure that all the three conditions laid down are > fulfilled. > > If only one or two conditions are fulfilled then the horoscope > will > > not have a `pitri Rin' dosh. All the three conditions have to be > > fulfilled. This will indicate the planet causing the `rin'.> > > > > > Step 2> > > > > > If the three conditions are fulfilled and the planet > identified, > > then the next step is to verify the indications of `pitri rin' for > > that particular planet. The Lal Kitab gives a detailed list of > > indications for each planet causing `pitri rin' > > > > > > Step 3 > > > > > > After having completed the first two steps, it becomes obvious > > that the native is suffering from a `rin'. The third step is to > > confirm this phenomenon from a few other horoscopes of the family > > members. If there is a `rin' on the family it should be reflected > in > > a few, if not all , horoscopes from the same family. > > > > > > [ from the notes of my guru ji ]> > > > > > There can be a situation where the Rin is not indicated in > other > > kundalis of the family. Take the example of the son of a doctor > who > > destroys the girl child fetus after ascertaining the sex of the > > embryo. Now the father is committing a sin against kanyas. This > Rin > > could get reflected in the kundali of his progeny but not in other > > kundalis of the family. Therefore even if the Rin is detected in > > one single kundali the upaya should be done. > > > The third step is primarily to ascertain the severity and the > > expanse of the curse. > > > > > > A few questions that are of concern and need to be discussed :> > > > > > [ 1 ] Is Pitri Rin a common occurrence ? Or it is a rare > > combination. > > > > > > I feel that it is a very rare occurrence. There will be just a > > few horoscopes out of a thousand which will qualify under all the > > three conditions. The frequency of occurrence can not be 33% as > > claimed by some, it will be some thing like .005%.> > > > > > [ 2 ] What is the over all relevance of this combination while > > studying a horoscope? What did Pandit Roop Chand ji { peace be > upon > > him} feel about it?> > > It is only in the 1952 edition that Pitri Rin is explained in > > some detail. In 1941 edition { gutka } it finds a mention under > the > > section `Rin' in the form of a table for planet and the kind of > rin. > > At the end of the table there are two lines like a foot note > > saying, " jis grah ki jar mein uska dushman jab phal barbaad kar > > raha ho, aur khud bhi woh grah manda ho raha ho to pitri rin hoga"> > > In my opinion there could be either of the two possibilities : > > one that the concept of Pitri Rin had not crystallized , till > 1952 , > > in the mind of Pandit ji. Secondly he did not think it important > > enough as to include a section on Pitri Rin , in some detail, in > the > > books published prior to 1952.> > > > > > I tend to accept both the possibilities.> > > > > > [ 3 ] Are there two conditions to be fulfilled or there are > > three conditions to be fulfilled?> > > > > > I adhere to the three conditions which are enumerated above.> > > > > > [ 4 ] Is the upaya to be done for two planets or for one?> > > Recently some one claimed having seen four kundalis where he > > claims that pandit ji had suggested Pitri Rin upaya for one planet > > in each kundali.> > > > > > I feel that the upaya has to be done for two planets and not > > one: `jo grah nikamma ho gaya hai aur doosara jisne pahale grah ko > > nikamma kiya hai' i.e. the upaya has to be done for two planets > one > > that has been afflicted and the other which has afflicted the > first > > one.> > > If an upaya has been suggested only for one planet then it > could > > be an upaya for any thing else but not an upaya for pitri rin.> > > > > > [ 5 ] Is it necessary that the Pitri Rin has to be evident in > a > > few more kundalis of the family?> > > I think no. > > > I have quoted a situation above where it is evident that the > rin > > will be reflected only in the kundali of the progeny of the doctor > > and not in the kundali of the doctor or his generation.> > > > > > [ 6 ] Is the chapter on Pitri Rin titled as ` uljhan ke grah ` > > in the 1952 urdu edition?> > > > > > Yes. I am uploading the page 121 and page 122 of the lal > Kitab > > urdu edition in the file section for every one to see. The chapter > > on Pitri Rin starts at 121, the title page.> > > If some one claims that pandit ji meant some thing else > > by `uljhan ke grah' and not the pitri rin, then let him come out > > with it.> > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > Chandra Prakash> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - > Answers> > >> >> Finding fabulous fares is fun.Let FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Dear Kiranjit ji, Each condition indicates a possibility of a Pitri Rin. But the final verdict that a pitri rin exists has to be given only when all the three conditions are fulfilled. Regards, Chandra Prakash , kiranjit kumar <kapatjal wrote: > > dear trivedi ji, > as far as my understanding goes,the 3 steps r 3 different situations; each condition in itself is an indicator of pitri rin.only study of many horoscopes can tell what actually is the truth or meant by Pt.Roop Lal ji. 1952 edition is the complete ,expained book of the system;gutka is a sortcut to it and its verses attimes, r of help to understand the later edition. > As in all reseaches,the latest edition combines all the new and the relevant old findings and becomes authentic. > with best wishes, > sincerely, > kiranjeet > > varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > Dear Kiranjit ji, > > Yes you are very right that the Pitri Rin will be indicated at least > in one kundali of that family line. And if it is indicated then the > upaya should be done by collecting the share of upaya from the whole > family. > Could you please express your opinion on other questions also that > are of concern. These questions or discussion points are given at > the end of the note. > It will be a very valuable contribution to the topic. > > With regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > , " kapatjal " > <kapatjal@> wrote: > > > > dear tyagi ji, > > the explanation is excellent.But I think,if one 's horoscope is > > afflicted with pitri rin, the pitri rin shall affect at least one > > male line of that family;suppose one has 3sons;the pitri rin shall > > appear in alteast one of the sones and his line of male members. > > that is is why it is necessary to do the remedy so that whole > > khaandaan of that line gets rid of ptri rin. > > sincerely, > > kiranjeet the male members of that line--- In > > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear sirs > > > > > > > > > Since we enjoy the wealth, name and fame earned by our > ancestors > > we are equally liable to suffer and pay for their misdeeds too. > The > > dosh created as a result of the bad deeds by our ancestors is > > paitrik-dosh or pitra-rin . Pitri rin is different from the `pitri- > > shraap' or the curse of the ancestors. The `pitri-shraap' is a > > result of the ancestors cursing their progeny for having > misbehaved > > with them, having ignored them or for not having followed the > family > > traditions. > > > > > > Even in the legal system we are held responsible for the > debts > > of our forefathers similarly in astrology too we have to pay their > > debts. > > > > > > Brahat parashar gives 14 kinds of pitra-dosh, Mantreshwar in > > Phal Deepika says that rahu in the 5th creates pishach-badha, > Gopal > > Ratnakar calls it sarp-shraap. In the traditional vedic astrology > > Rahu is considered the main cause of these dosh . > > > > > > Lal Kitab in its 1952 edition discusses this problem in great > > detail along with its remedies. I quote from Lal Kitab : > > > > > > {ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha,budh baitha jad saathi ho > > > rin pitri us ghar se hoga ,asar grah sab nisphal ho ; > > > saathi grah jab jad koi kate ,drishti magar wo chhupta ho > > > paanch ,barah, do, nau koi mande, rin pitri ban jaata ho } > > > > > > These lines describe THREE conditions of pitra-rin: > > > > > > [ 1 ] ' ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha , budh baitha jad saathi > > > ho ' ---- If there is a planet in the 9th house and Mercury > > occupies the rashi { sign } of that planet then it will be a pitr- > > rin kundali. For example jupiter is in the 9th house and if > mercury > > is in either sagittarius or pisces , or suppose venus is in the > 9th > > house and mercury is placed in either taurus or libra then there > > will be an indication of a possible `pitri rin' > > > > > > [ 2 ] ' saathi grah jab jad koi kate , drishti magar wo > chhuptaa > > > ho ' --- when the enemy planets occupy a rashi and is not > > aspected by the rashi lord , the kundali will be of pitr-rin. For > > example if the enemy planets of saturn like sun , moon or mars > > occupy either makar or kumbha and if the Saturn doesn't have an > > aspect on that rasi , there could be a possibility of a `pitri > rin' . > > > > > > [ 3 ] 'paanch barah nau do koi mande , rin pitra ban jaata > ho' -- > > - if there is an enemy planet of Jupiter like venus or mercury in > > the 5th , 12th , 9th and 2nd then also it will be a pitr-rin > > kundali . > > > > > > {of the three couplets the first two talk of the rasi and the > > third one talks of the pakka ghar of Jupiter.} > > > > > > > > > The Lal kitab suggests remedies in detail for pitr-rin arising > > out of such situations . It provides the detailed cause of these > > debts, the planet involved and its remedies. > > > > > > Now how to go about suggesting upaya for `Pitri-Rin'? It is a > > three step process : > > > > > > Step 1 > > > > > > Make sure that all the three conditions laid down are > fulfilled. > > If only one or two conditions are fulfilled then the horoscope > will > > not have a `pitri Rin' dosh. All the three conditions have to be > > fulfilled. This will indicate the planet causing the `rin'. > > > > > > Step 2 > > > > > > If the three conditions are fulfilled and the planet > identified, > > then the next step is to verify the indications of `pitri rin' for > > that particular planet. The Lal Kitab gives a detailed list of > > indications for each planet causing `pitri rin' > > > > > > Step 3 > > > > > > After having completed the first two steps, it becomes obvious > > that the native is suffering from a `rin'. The third step is to > > confirm this phenomenon from a few other horoscopes of the family > > members. If there is a `rin' on the family it should be reflected > in > > a few, if not all , horoscopes from the same family. > > > > > > [ from the notes of my guru ji ] > > > > > > There can be a situation where the Rin is not indicated in > other > > kundalis of the family. Take the example of the son of a doctor > who > > destroys the girl child fetus after ascertaining the sex of the > > embryo. Now the father is committing a sin against kanyas. This > Rin > > could get reflected in the kundali of his progeny but not in other > > kundalis of the family. Therefore even if the Rin is detected in > > one single kundali the upaya should be done. > > > The third step is primarily to ascertain the severity and the > > expanse of the curse. > > > > > > A few questions that are of concern and need to be discussed : > > > > > > [ 1 ] Is Pitri Rin a common occurrence ? Or it is a rare > > combination. > > > > > > I feel that it is a very rare occurrence. There will be just a > > few horoscopes out of a thousand which will qualify under all the > > three conditions. The frequency of occurrence can not be 33% as > > claimed by some, it will be some thing like .005%. > > > > > > [ 2 ] What is the over all relevance of this combination while > > studying a horoscope? What did Pandit Roop Chand ji { peace be > upon > > him} feel about it? > > > It is only in the 1952 edition that Pitri Rin is explained in > > some detail. In 1941 edition { gutka } it finds a mention under > the > > section `Rin' in the form of a table for planet and the kind of > rin. > > At the end of the table there are two lines like a foot note > > saying, " jis grah ki jar mein uska dushman jab phal barbaad kar > > raha ho, aur khud bhi woh grah manda ho raha ho to pitri rin hoga " > > > In my opinion there could be either of the two possibilities : > > one that the concept of Pitri Rin had not crystallized , till > 1952 , > > in the mind of Pandit ji. Secondly he did not think it important > > enough as to include a section on Pitri Rin , in some detail, in > the > > books published prior to 1952. > > > > > > I tend to accept both the possibilities. > > > > > > [ 3 ] Are there two conditions to be fulfilled or there are > > three conditions to be fulfilled? > > > > > > I adhere to the three conditions which are enumerated above. > > > > > > [ 4 ] Is the upaya to be done for two planets or for one? > > > Recently some one claimed having seen four kundalis where he > > claims that pandit ji had suggested Pitri Rin upaya for one planet > > in each kundali. > > > > > > I feel that the upaya has to be done for two planets and not > > one: `jo grah nikamma ho gaya hai aur doosara jisne pahale grah ko > > nikamma kiya hai' i.e. the upaya has to be done for two planets > one > > that has been afflicted and the other which has afflicted the > first > > one. > > > If an upaya has been suggested only for one planet then it > could > > be an upaya for any thing else but not an upaya for pitri rin. > > > > > > [ 5 ] Is it necessary that the Pitri Rin has to be evident in > a > > few more kundalis of the family? > > > I think no. > > > I have quoted a situation above where it is evident that the > rin > > will be reflected only in the kundali of the progeny of the doctor > > and not in the kundali of the doctor or his generation. > > > > > > [ 6 ] Is the chapter on Pitri Rin titled as ` uljhan ke grah ` > > in the 1952 urdu edition? > > > > > > Yes. I am uploading the page 121 and page 122 of the lal > Kitab > > urdu edition in the file section for every one to see. The chapter > > on Pitri Rin starts at 121, the title page. > > > If some one claims that pandit ji meant some thing else > > by `uljhan ke grah' and not the pitri rin, then let him come out > > with it. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Chandra Prakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - > Answers > > > > > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast > with the Search weather shortcut. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Dear kaiwal ji, There are two seperate things: Pitri Rin and Pitri Shrap i.e. the debt of the ancestors and the curse of ancestors. The debt of the ancestors or Pitri Rin arises out of the misdeeds of ancestors which their progeny has to pay for. Pitri Shrap or the curse of the ancestors arises when the ancestors curse us, their progeny, for having misbehaved with them. Pitri shrap , Vedic astrology concept, manifests in the horoscope in various forms like the kendra house being occupied by malefics { other than Rahu & Ketu} with no benefic aspect. You can imagine what life would be like if the four kendra houses signifying major human areas being adversely effected. Fifth house affliction is known as Sarp shrap or sarp dosh which adversely effects the progeny. Regards, Chandra Prakash , kaiwal thakur <i9815739229 wrote: > > dear > new one here > from fifth house one can see about pitiri rin or else methods are there > please do help if u wish > eagerly waiting for your mail > GOD may bless you always > have nice time > > > kiranjit kumar <kapatjal wrote: > dear trivedi ji, > as far as my understanding goes,the 3 steps r 3 different situations; each condition in itself is an indicator of pitri rin.only study of many horoscopes can tell what actually is the truth or meant by Pt.Roop Lal ji. 1952 edition is the complete ,expained book of the system;gutka is a sortcut to it and its verses attimes, r of help to understand the later edition. > As in all reseaches,the latest edition combines all the new and the relevant old findings and becomes authentic. > with best wishes, > sincerely, > kiranjeet > > varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > Dear Kiranjit ji, > > Yes you are very right that the Pitri Rin will be indicated at least > in one kundali of that family line. And if it is indicated then the > upaya should be done by collecting the share of upaya from the whole > family. > Could you please express your opinion on other questions also that > are of concern. These questions or discussion points are given at > the end of the note. > It will be a very valuable contribution to the topic. > > With regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > , " kapatjal " > <kapatjal@> wrote: > > > > dear tyagi ji, > > the explanation is excellent.But I think,if one 's horoscope is > > afflicted with pitri rin, the pitri rin shall affect at least one > > male line of that family;suppose one has 3sons;the pitri rin shall > > appear in alteast one of the sones and his line of male members. > > that is is why it is necessary to do the remedy so that whole > > khaandaan of that line gets rid of ptri rin. > > sincerely, > > kiranjeet the male members of that line--- In > > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear sirs > > > > > > > > > Since we enjoy the wealth, name and fame earned by our > ancestors > > we are equally liable to suffer and pay for their misdeeds too. > The > > dosh created as a result of the bad deeds by our ancestors is > > paitrik-dosh or pitra-rin . Pitri rin is different from the `pitri- > > shraap' or the curse of the ancestors. The `pitri-shraap' is a > > result of the ancestors cursing their progeny for having > misbehaved > > with them, having ignored them or for not having followed the > family > > traditions. > > > > > > Even in the legal system we are held responsible for the > debts > > of our forefathers similarly in astrology too we have to pay their > > debts. > > > > > > Brahat parashar gives 14 kinds of pitra-dosh, Mantreshwar in > > Phal Deepika says that rahu in the 5th creates pishach-badha, > Gopal > > Ratnakar calls it sarp-shraap. In the traditional vedic astrology > > Rahu is considered the main cause of these dosh . > > > > > > Lal Kitab in its 1952 edition discusses this problem in great > > detail along with its remedies. I quote from Lal Kitab : > > > > > > {ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha,budh baitha jad saathi ho > > > rin pitri us ghar se hoga ,asar grah sab nisphal ho ; > > > saathi grah jab jad koi kate ,drishti magar wo chhupta ho > > > paanch ,barah, do, nau koi mande, rin pitri ban jaata ho } > > > > > > These lines describe THREE conditions of pitra-rin: > > > > > > [ 1 ] ' ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha , budh baitha jad saathi > > > ho ' ---- If there is a planet in the 9th house and Mercury > > occupies the rashi { sign } of that planet then it will be a pitr- > > rin kundali. For example jupiter is in the 9th house and if > mercury > > is in either sagittarius or pisces , or suppose venus is in the > 9th > > house and mercury is placed in either taurus or libra then there > > will be an indication of a possible `pitri rin' > > > > > > [ 2 ] ' saathi grah jab jad koi kate , drishti magar wo > chhuptaa > > > ho ' --- when the enemy planets occupy a rashi and is not > > aspected by the rashi lord , the kundali will be of pitr-rin. For > > example if the enemy planets of saturn like sun , moon or mars > > occupy either makar or kumbha and if the Saturn doesn't have an > > aspect on that rasi , there could be a possibility of a `pitri > rin' . > > > > > > [ 3 ] 'paanch barah nau do koi mande , rin pitra ban jaata > ho' -- > > - if there is an enemy planet of Jupiter like venus or mercury in > > the 5th , 12th , 9th and 2nd then also it will be a pitr-rin > > kundali . > > > > > > {of the three couplets the first two talk of the rasi and the > > third one talks of the pakka ghar of Jupiter.} > > > > > > > > > The Lal kitab suggests remedies in detail for pitr-rin arising > > out of such situations . It provides the detailed cause of these > > debts, the planet involved and its remedies. > > > > > > Now how to go about suggesting upaya for `Pitri-Rin'? It is a > > three step process : > > > > > > Step 1 > > > > > > Make sure that all the three conditions laid down are > fulfilled. > > If only one or two conditions are fulfilled then the horoscope > will > > not have a `pitri Rin' dosh. All the three conditions have to be > > fulfilled. This will indicate the planet causing the `rin'. > > > > > > Step 2 > > > > > > If the three conditions are fulfilled and the planet > identified, > > then the next step is to verify the indications of `pitri rin' for > > that particular planet. The Lal Kitab gives a detailed list of > > indications for each planet causing `pitri rin' > > > > > > Step 3 > > > > > > After having completed the first two steps, it becomes obvious > > that the native is suffering from a `rin'. The third step is to > > confirm this phenomenon from a few other horoscopes of the family > > members. If there is a `rin' on the family it should be reflected > in > > a few, if not all , horoscopes from the same family. > > > > > > [ from the notes of my guru ji ] > > > > > > There can be a situation where the Rin is not indicated in > other > > kundalis of the family. Take the example of the son of a doctor > who > > destroys the girl child fetus after ascertaining the sex of the > > embryo. Now the father is committing a sin against kanyas. This > Rin > > could get reflected in the kundali of his progeny but not in other > > kundalis of the family. Therefore even if the Rin is detected in > > one single kundali the upaya should be done. > > > The third step is primarily to ascertain the severity and the > > expanse of the curse. > > > > > > A few questions that are of concern and need to be discussed : > > > > > > [ 1 ] Is Pitri Rin a common occurrence ? Or it is a rare > > combination. > > > > > > I feel that it is a very rare occurrence. There will be just a > > few horoscopes out of a thousand which will qualify under all the > > three conditions. The frequency of occurrence can not be 33% as > > claimed by some, it will be some thing like .005%. > > > > > > [ 2 ] What is the over all relevance of this combination while > > studying a horoscope? What did Pandit Roop Chand ji { peace be > upon > > him} feel about it? > > > It is only in the 1952 edition that Pitri Rin is explained in > > some detail. In 1941 edition { gutka } it finds a mention under > the > > section `Rin' in the form of a table for planet and the kind of > rin. > > At the end of the table there are two lines like a foot note > > saying, " jis grah ki jar mein uska dushman jab phal barbaad kar > > raha ho, aur khud bhi woh grah manda ho raha ho to pitri rin hoga " > > > In my opinion there could be either of the two possibilities : > > one that the concept of Pitri Rin had not crystallized , till > 1952 , > > in the mind of Pandit ji. Secondly he did not think it important > > enough as to include a section on Pitri Rin , in some detail, in > the > > books published prior to 1952. > > > > > > I tend to accept both the possibilities. > > > > > > [ 3 ] Are there two conditions to be fulfilled or there are > > three conditions to be fulfilled? > > > > > > I adhere to the three conditions which are enumerated above. > > > > > > [ 4 ] Is the upaya to be done for two planets or for one? > > > Recently some one claimed having seen four kundalis where he > > claims that pandit ji had suggested Pitri Rin upaya for one planet > > in each kundali. > > > > > > I feel that the upaya has to be done for two planets and not > > one: `jo grah nikamma ho gaya hai aur doosara jisne pahale grah ko > > nikamma kiya hai' i.e. the upaya has to be done for two planets > one > > that has been afflicted and the other which has afflicted the > first > > one. > > > If an upaya has been suggested only for one planet then it > could > > be an upaya for any thing else but not an upaya for pitri rin. > > > > > > [ 5 ] Is it necessary that the Pitri Rin has to be evident in > a > > few more kundalis of the family? > > > I think no. > > > I have quoted a situation above where it is evident that the > rin > > will be reflected only in the kundali of the progeny of the doctor > > and not in the kundali of the doctor or his generation. > > > > > > [ 6 ] Is the chapter on Pitri Rin titled as ` uljhan ke grah ` > > in the 1952 urdu edition? > > > > > > Yes. I am uploading the page 121 and page 122 of the lal > Kitab > > urdu edition in the file section for every one to see. The chapter > > on Pitri Rin starts at 121, the title page. > > > If some one claims that pandit ji meant some thing else > > by `uljhan ke grah' and not the pitri rin, then let him come out > > with it. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Chandra Prakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - > Answers > > > > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast > with the Search weather shortcut. > > > > > > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 dear Tyagi ji, thanks a lot;the debate on Pitri Rin has been a very good academic exercise. pl keep it up. with best wishes, sincerely. kiranjeetcptyagi2007 <cptyagi2007 wrote: Dear Kiranjit ji,Each condition indicates a possibility of a Pitri Rin. But the final verdict that a pitri rin exists has to be given only when all the three conditions are fulfilled.Regards,Chandra Prakash , kiranjit kumar <kapatjal wrote:>> dear trivedi ji,> as far as my understanding goes,the 3 steps r 3 different situations; each condition in itself is an indicator of pitri rin.only study of many horoscopes can tell what actually is the truth or meant by Pt.Roop Lal ji. 1952 edition is the complete ,expained book of the system;gutka is a sortcut to it and its verses attimes, r of help to understand the later edition.> As in all reseaches,the latest edition combines all the new and the relevant old findings and becomes authentic.> with best wishes,> sincerely,> kiranjeet> > varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:> Dear Kiranjit ji,> > Yes you are very right that the Pitri Rin will be indicated at least > in one kundali of that family line. And if it is indicated then the > upaya should be done by collecting the share of upaya from the whole > family.> Could you please express your opinion on other questions also that > are of concern. These questions or discussion points are given at > the end of the note.> It will be a very valuable contribution to the topic.> > With regards,> > Varun Trivedi> > , "kapatjal" > <kapatjal@> wrote:> >> > dear tyagi ji,> > the explanation is excellent.But I think,if one 's horoscope is > > afflicted with pitri rin, the pitri rin shall affect at least one > > male line of that family;suppose one has 3sons;the pitri rin shall > > appear in alteast one of the sones and his line of male members.> > that is is why it is necessary to do the remedy so that whole > > khaandaan of that line gets rid of ptri rin.> > sincerely,> > kiranjeet the male members of that line> > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > Dear sirs> > > > > > > > > Since we enjoy the wealth, name and fame earned by our > ancestors > > we are equally liable to suffer and pay for their misdeeds too. > The > > dosh created as a result of the bad deeds by our ancestors is > > paitrik-dosh or pitra-rin . Pitri rin is different from the `pitri-> > shraap' or the curse of the ancestors. The `pitri-shraap' is a > > result of the ancestors cursing their progeny for having > misbehaved > > with them, having ignored them or for not having followed the > family > > traditions.> > > > > > Even in the legal system we are held responsible for the > debts > > of our forefathers similarly in astrology too we have to pay their > > debts. > > > > > > Brahat parashar gives 14 kinds of pitra-dosh, Mantreshwar in > > Phal Deepika says that rahu in the 5th creates pishach-badha, > Gopal > > Ratnakar calls it sarp-shraap. In the traditional vedic astrology > > Rahu is considered the main cause of these dosh .> > > > > > Lal Kitab in its 1952 edition discusses this problem in great > > detail along with its remedies. I quote from Lal Kitab :> > > > > > {ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha,budh baitha jad saathi ho> > > rin pitri us ghar se hoga ,asar grah sab nisphal ho ;> > > saathi grah jab jad koi kate ,drishti magar wo chhupta ho> > > paanch ,barah, do, nau koi mande, rin pitri ban jaata ho }> > > > > > These lines describe THREE conditions of pitra-rin:> > > > > > [ 1 ] ' ghar nauve ho koi grah baitha , budh baitha jad saathi> > > ho ' ---- If there is a planet in the 9th house and Mercury > > occupies the rashi { sign } of that planet then it will be a pitr-> > rin kundali. For example jupiter is in the 9th house and if > mercury > > is in either sagittarius or pisces , or suppose venus is in the > 9th > > house and mercury is placed in either taurus or libra then there > > will be an indication of a possible `pitri rin'> > > > > > [ 2 ] ' saathi grah jab jad koi kate , drishti magar wo > chhuptaa> > > ho ' --- when the enemy planets occupy a rashi and is not > > aspected by the rashi lord , the kundali will be of pitr-rin. For > > example if the enemy planets of saturn like sun , moon or mars > > occupy either makar or kumbha and if the Saturn doesn't have an > > aspect on that rasi , there could be a possibility of a `pitri > rin' .> > > > > > [ 3 ] 'paanch barah nau do koi mande , rin pitra ban jaata > ho' --> > - if there is an enemy planet of Jupiter like venus or mercury in > > the 5th , 12th , 9th and 2nd then also it will be a pitr-rin > > kundali .> > > > > > {of the three couplets the first two talk of the rasi and the > > third one talks of the pakka ghar of Jupiter.} > > > > > > > > > The Lal kitab suggests remedies in detail for pitr-rin arising > > out of such situations . It provides the detailed cause of these > > debts, the planet involved and its remedies. > > > > > > Now how to go about suggesting upaya for `Pitri-Rin'? It is a > > three step process :> > > > > > Step 1 > > > > > > Make sure that all the three conditions laid down are > fulfilled. > > If only one or two conditions are fulfilled then the horoscope > will > > not have a `pitri Rin' dosh. All the three conditions have to be > > fulfilled. This will indicate the planet causing the `rin'.> > > > > > Step 2> > > > > > If the three conditions are fulfilled and the planet > identified, > > then the next step is to verify the indications of `pitri rin' for > > that particular planet. The Lal Kitab gives a detailed list of > > indications for each planet causing `pitri rin' > > > > > > Step 3 > > > > > > After having completed the first two steps, it becomes obvious > > that the native is suffering from a `rin'. The third step is to > > confirm this phenomenon from a few other horoscopes of the family > > members. If there is a `rin' on the family it should be reflected > in > > a few, if not all , horoscopes from the same family. > > > > > > [ from the notes of my guru ji ]> > > > > > There can be a situation where the Rin is not indicated in > other > > kundalis of the family. Take the example of the son of a doctor > who > > destroys the girl child fetus after ascertaining the sex of the > > embryo. Now the father is committing a sin against kanyas. This > Rin > > could get reflected in the kundali of his progeny but not in other > > kundalis of the family. Therefore even if the Rin is detected in > > one single kundali the upaya should be done. > > > The third step is primarily to ascertain the severity and the > > expanse of the curse. > > > > > > A few questions that are of concern and need to be discussed :> > > > > > [ 1 ] Is Pitri Rin a common occurrence ? Or it is a rare > > combination. > > > > > > I feel that it is a very rare occurrence. There will be just a > > few horoscopes out of a thousand which will qualify under all the > > three conditions. The frequency of occurrence can not be 33% as > > claimed by some, it will be some thing like .005%.> > > > > > [ 2 ] What is the over all relevance of this combination while > > studying a horoscope? What did Pandit Roop Chand ji { peace be > upon > > him} feel about it?> > > It is only in the 1952 edition that Pitri Rin is explained in > > some detail. In 1941 edition { gutka } it finds a mention under > the > > section `Rin' in the form of a table for planet and the kind of > rin. > > At the end of the table there are two lines like a foot note > > saying, " jis grah ki jar mein uska dushman jab phal barbaad kar > > raha ho, aur khud bhi woh grah manda ho raha ho to pitri rin hoga"> > > In my opinion there could be either of the two possibilities : > > one that the concept of Pitri Rin had not crystallized , till > 1952 , > > in the mind of Pandit ji. Secondly he did not think it important > > enough as to include a section on Pitri Rin , in some detail, in > the > > books published prior to 1952.> > > > > > I tend to accept both the possibilities.> > > > > > [ 3 ] Are there two conditions to be fulfilled or there are > > three conditions to be fulfilled?> > > > > > I adhere to the three conditions which are enumerated above.> > > > > > [ 4 ] Is the upaya to be done for two planets or for one?> > > Recently some one claimed having seen four kundalis where he > > claims that pandit ji had suggested Pitri Rin upaya for one planet > > in each kundali.> > > > > > I feel that the upaya has to be done for two planets and not > > one: `jo grah nikamma ho gaya hai aur doosara jisne pahale grah ko > > nikamma kiya hai' i.e. the upaya has to be done for two planets > one > > that has been afflicted and the other which has afflicted the > first > > one.> > > If an upaya has been suggested only for one planet then it > could > > be an upaya for any thing else but not an upaya for pitri rin.> > > > > > [ 5 ] Is it necessary that the Pitri Rin has to be evident in > a > > few more kundalis of the family?> > > I think no. > > > I have quoted a situation above where it is evident that the > rin > > will be reflected only in the kundali of the progeny of the doctor > > and not in the kundali of the doctor or his generation.> > > > > > [ 6 ] Is the chapter on Pitri Rin titled as ` uljhan ke grah ` > > in the 1952 urdu edition?> > > > > > Yes. I am uploading the page 121 and page 122 of the lal > Kitab > > urdu edition in the file section for every one to see. The chapter > > on Pitri Rin starts at 121, the title page.> > > If some one claims that pandit ji meant some thing else > > by `uljhan ke grah' and not the pitri rin, then let him come out > > with it.> > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > Chandra Prakash> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - > Answers> > >> >> > > > > > > > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast > with the Search weather shortcut.> It's here! Your new message!Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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