Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Respected Varun ji, You have quoted two statements from the book to show that flowing in a river and gifting away is one and the same thing. I am quoting a third statement from the book. For Moon in the 11th house the Arun Sanhita says that 121 pedas be distributed to children and if some one feels any waham in accepting the pedas then they should be thrown in the flowing water of the river. Here also distributing the pedas or gifting the pedas is one and the same thing as nadi mein pravahit karna. This statement further confirms what you have said earlier. Respectfully, Girish Raheja , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai, > > > > This is yet another fallacy created by Lal Kitab semi-literates. > > The fact is that immersing some thing in flowing water > > is not associated with the 4th house in any way. Immersing > > some thing in flowing water simply means distancing the > > effect of the planet. > > > > Let us see what Pt. Roopchand ji has to say about it. I am > > quoting two statements from the book: > > > > Mithai, meetha bhojan daan karen ya batashe dariyaa mein dalen > > > > Mooli daan karen ya koyale dariyaa mein baha den > > > > Now you can see for yourself that donating or gifting away > > has been used synonymously to drifting away in flowing water. > > > > The purpose is obvious, to distance away. > > > > These statements occur in both the 1942 and 1952 editions. > > > > Regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > , " kulbirbance " > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > Gurudev Umesh Sharma ji, > > > > ise to aap hi spasht karenge, hum to aapki likhi kitabein > > padhte hain, hum aapko kya spashtikaran denge, kripya aap ki kasht > > karein. > > > > regards > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Umesh Sharma " > > mudit982001@ wrote: > > > > > > Respected Mahajan ji, > > > > > > > > > Dariya main, ya nadi main, ya canal main Bahane ke upay se aap ka > > > kya tatprya hai? kya isse koi grah kisi ghar main sthapit hota hey > > > ya kuch aur hai? kripya kya aap esko spashat karainge? > > > > > > Thanks in Advance. > > > > > > Umesh Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Aadarneeya Mahajan ji, > > > > > > > > ap ne likha hai > > > > > > > > " kyonki darya aur nehar ya chalta hua pani (saaf ) mein bahut > > > > antar hai, kulbir jee samajh gaye hain. " > > > > > > > > Mein yeh antar nahi samajh paya ki bahate dariya ke paani aur > > > bahate > > > > nahar ke paani mein kya antar ho sakta hai? > > > > > > > > Dono kism ke paani ki taseer kaise badal jatee hai? > > > > > > > > Kyonki jab tak taseer nahi badalti tab tak upaya ke prabhav mein > > > > farq nahi padna chahiye. Aur agar paani ki taseer vahi rahati hai > > > [ > > > > yani dono Chadra ke karak ] to phir chahe nadi ka paani ho ya > > > nahar > > > > ka, koi farq nahi padega. > > > > > > > > Kripya ap hi bata den ki yah antar kya hai? aur kyon hua ? > > > > > > > > Aur agar Kulbir bhai samajh gaye hen to Kulbir bhai hi bata den. > > > > > > > > Doosare prashna ka uttar to ap ne diya hi nahi. Surya 4 ke samay > > > > rahu ki ashiya na bahayee jaye aisa kahan kaha hai? > > > > > > > > Saadar sahit, > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " mts3434 " <mts3434@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Varun jee > > > > > > > > > > baat yeh hai ki darya pandit jee ne kyon likha, behta pani kyon > > > > nahi > > > > > likha. kyonki darya aur nehar ya chalta hua pani (saaf ) mein > > > bahut > > > > > antar hai, kulbir jee samajh gaye hain. > > > > > ab budh khana 9 mein dekhe, wahan unhone likha hai ki darya ke > > > pani > > > > > ke cheente kapde par maare ya darya ke pani se kapde dhoye ( > > kora > > > > > suit ). yahan par bhee woh nehar ka pani likh sakte thei.ya > > apne > > > > > kapde nehar mein dhoye( ya nehar ke paani ke cheente mare ) abb > > > > mein > > > > > yahan par hoon wahan par mere paas lk nahi hai, nahi to mein > > > page > > > > no > > > > > ka udaaran de ke batata. lk mein kai jagah likha hua aapko mil > > > > > jayega ki upay aap behtey hue paani mein kare ( pravah ) ya > > kisi > > > > > jagah yeh saaf likha milega ki darya mein pravah karen. mere > > > khayal > > > > > mein yahan darya likha wahan aapko darya mein hee upay karna > > > > chahiye > > > > > yahan chalta paani likha ho wahan aap darya / nehar mein karwa > > > > sakte > > > > > hain. baki aap sab mujhse zyada samazdar hain. meri aap logo ke > > > > aage > > > > > kya aukat. meri adat likhne ki kum hai, issliye kai baar apni > > > baat > > > > > sahi tarike se explain nahi kar pata. discuss kare to sahi > > > tarike > > > > se > > > > > samjha sakta hoon. mera phone no shayad kulbir jee se mil > > > > jayega.aap > > > > > se baat karke ya mil kar bahut khushi hogi. > > > > > > > > > > mahajan > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Kulbir Bhai, > > > > > > > > > > > > When a karak object of a planet is immersed in flowing water, > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > assumed that the effect of the planet has been distanced > > away. > > > > > > Flowing water is a medium or a carrier of the karak object. > > > > > > Therefore so long as the water is flowing water, as against > > > > > stagnant > > > > > > water,it should be good enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > It hardly makes a difference whether the flowing water is of > > a > > > > > river > > > > > > or a canal so long as the water carries away the karak object > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbance " > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respected Mahajan Sahib; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the copncept of dariya and canal appealed > > > > > > > to me. dariya is a natural running source of water but in > > > case > > > > > of a > > > > > > > canal, water is first stored; read stopped, then sent in > > > > > > > artificially created chanel, varun ji can elaborare on this > > > > > issue > > > > > > in > > > > > > > detail, but it appealled to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " mts3434 " > > > > <mts3434@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun jee/ kulbir jee/ gill jee > > > > > > > > kripya yeh bhee dhayan rakhe ki jab led/sikka/ranga > > dariya > > > me > > > > > > > pravah > > > > > > > > kar rahen ho uss samay suraj ( sun ) khana number 4 mein > > na > > > > > ho . > > > > > > > ya > > > > > > > > jis saal yeh upay karna ho uss saal suraj khana no. 4 > > mein > > > na > > > > > ho. > > > > > > > > aur yeh upay driya mein hee karna hai nehar mein nahi.yeh > > > to > > > > > hai > > > > > > > > upay baki aur bhee kai baaton ka dhayan rakhna hota hai, > > > > jaise > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > chhat na badle, ghar ki dahleej pujna (south face ) wale > > ke > > > > > liye > > > > > > > > jaroori hai. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mahajan > > > > > > > > --- In , " gill_hs2005 " > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji and kulbir ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sirs, thank you such a brilliant and detailed > > > explanation. > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > grateful for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With respect, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HS Gill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kulbir > > > bance " > > > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurudev, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for this detailed explanation, i agree > > totally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/4/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Gill Saheb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first place let us understand that the upaya > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned, immersing 8 itmes either as 4pieces of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lead + 4 nariyals or 8 pieces of Lead, is a > > devised > > > > > upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. it has been devised by the Lal Kitab > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > themselves. *This upaya is not mentioned in the > > > book.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Rahu # 8:* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1941 edition : No mention of this upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1942 edition : No mention of this upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 edition : page 674 note # 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " khote sikke [kharabshuda aur mande] jin ki bazaar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mein kuchh keemat na ho aur zameen pat takarane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > se bilkul awaj na ho [ ya sikka,seesa,lead ] dariya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mein dalte jana mubarik hoga [ taqreeban 8 sikke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ya har roj ek taqreeban 43 din] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [The book mentions 8 counterfeit coins in one day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or a coin each day for 43 days. It mentions Lead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or sikka or seesa too but it is probably in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > context of the coins] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Rahu # 11* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1941 edition : no mention > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1942 edition : no mention > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 edition : no mention > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *But the Hindi transliteration of 1942 edition * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *[ Arun sanhita ] has added on its own :* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu 8th : aath tukade sikke ke jinka vazan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12 kilo ho dariya mein dalen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu 11th : 4 kilo sikka tatha 4 pooja vale > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nariyal dariya mein dalen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the upaya of immersing 8 pieces of Lead / > > Nariyal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or a mix there of is a perfectly logically devised > > > > upaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Kulbir Ji has mentioned, Pt. Krishna Ashant ji & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amrita Preetam ji in their book " *Trik bhavanon ki > > > > > gatha* " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have given a rationale of this upaya. Pt. Krishna > > > > > Ashant > > > > > > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maintains that the total quantity should be 8 in > > > value > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where as it can be cut into pieces of 8, or 10 or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > depending on the house affected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Now let me explain the logic of this upaya* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * as we have understood it :* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The most important thing to remember is that this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devised upaya is done only for Rahu in 8th and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 11th and for no other house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second thing to remember is the figure of 8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in both the case. Therefore this figure is not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > related to the house the Rahu is posited in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that were so then the figure of 8 would not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have been there for rahu in the 11th. It would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have been 11 instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Now does some thing ring a bell in the mind ?* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a figure of 8 be related to the 8th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the 11th house? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let me tell you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is moved 8 steps away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is the 8th house from the 8th? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And which is the 8th house from the 11th? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer is the 3rd and the 6th. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now by immersing a piece each day or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > immersing 8 pieces the same day for Rahu in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 8th, where does it take Rahu to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To the 3rd house of course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, immersing 8 pieces for a rahu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > placed in the 11th where would it take it to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To the 6th house of course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now Rahu can not be better placed than > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being in the 3rd or the 6th. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Therefore the purpose of the upaya is to * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *distance the Rahu such that it gets based* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * in the best houses it can ever be.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now let me explain another issue that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir ji has raised. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should the Nariyal be the one with water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or the one which is completely dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In our opinion the Nariyal should be completely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dry because the Nariyal is an ashiya of Shani. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thing with water [ moon ] can not be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an ashiya of Shani. The Nariyal used in pooja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the one which is dry. Even otherwise Shani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is considered a 'shushka grah' a dry planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gill Saheb, it is not coconut. Coconut is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kernel. For upaya it is the Nariyal, which is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the whole of it with coir intact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was definitely a very beautiful query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > , " kulbirbance " > > > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gill sahib, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pt. Krishan ashant has beautifully explained rahu > > > 11 > > > > > > > > > > > > remedy in his book but your question has posed a > > > new > > > > > > > > question > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > me. i.e. shouls the 4 nariyals be sookhe khadkte > > > hue > > > > or > > > > > > > > > containing > > > > > > > > > > > > water. i am in favour of cocunuts containing > > water > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > water is > > > > > > > > > > > > entraped in the shell. lets see what varun ji has > > > to > > > > > say > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > regard. indeed very logical question has been put > > > > > forward > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > > goodself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sinccerely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > , " gill_hs2005 " > > > > > > > > > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sirs, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu there are different remedy suggested > > for > > > > > each > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > > except > > > > > > > > > > > > > for house 8th and the 11th. For both these > > > houses > > > > the > > > > > > > > remedy > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > same. In both cases 8 pieces have been advised > > to > > > > > flow > > > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > > > river. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could be 4 pieces of ranga and 4 coconuts, > > or > > > 8 > > > > > > > pieces > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > ranga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way the total is 8 pieces. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir I can understand 8 pieces thrown in flowing > > > > water > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > Rahu in > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th house but what is the logic of throwing 8 > > > > pieces > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > rahu in > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HS Gill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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