Guest guest Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Dear Kulbir ji, Thank you so much for your note. I never said that the ‘Faisala kundali’ is redundant. All I wanted to point out was that the ‘Faisala kundali’ can be used only selectively. It can not be used across the board. Even the small directive given on page 382 of the 1942 ed bears me out when it says “ jo grah do dafa aven vah apana faisala is nayee kundali ke mutabik achha ya bura kismet ka faisala denge. agar is tarteeb se na aven vah varshphal ke mutabik phal denge†i.e. the ‘faisala kundali’ should be used only if there are such planets which have been repeated twice otherwise only the varsh phal kundali be studied. It means that the ‘faisal kundali’ has a very selective and limited use. It can not be used all the time and every time. God bless you. Bhooshan Priya , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > Guruji, > > Doesn't KP system goes by some particular planets instead of > all 9. Also dasha system like sade sati etc. Where a few get dominance > over other planets. > > I think it is too early to call this method > redundant. Since no one has been able to decode the formula of > varshphal we can't scrap it only on that ground. Lets not hurry. > > We have analysis by only 2 scholars. Lets wait for a few more. Still > there are doudts over dhoke ka grah. After this basic grammer rules > have to be checked and applied. > > Shukla ji straight away jumped upon predictive part. This hurry spoiled the fruits. Kindly give me some time. We can understand it but a little patience is required. > > Regards. > > Kulbir. > > > On 7/26/09, < wrote: > > > > Dear members, > > > > > > > > > > > > I had not given any thought to the Faisala kundali till Vipin Shukla ji > > came out with a very detailed analysis. I know he must have put a lot of > > effort into it. Any path breaking research needs such effort. > > > > > > > > It was the Vipin’s analysis which made me go into the detailed > > study of the Faisala Kundali. > > > > > > > > I regret saying that I have not found the Faisala kundali as > > representative as a janma kundali or a varsh phal kundali can be. Any > > kundali becomes representative only if all or most of the 9 planets are > > represented in it. At times this does not happen with the Faisala > > kundali. > > > > > > > > Therefore I have reservations about accepting the Faisala kundali as a > > tool of analysis. A tool is accepted only if it is consistent, and has > > no fluctuations/variations, under all circumstances. > > > > > > > > What I mean by saying that the faisal kundali not being an acceptable > > tool of analysis, you can verify for yourself. > > > > > > > > Prepare a Faisala kundali of the 46th year for the following details. > > > > > > > > Date of birth : February 6 , 1962 > > > > Time of birth : 6:25 AM > > > > Place of birth : Patiala [ 76E24 ; 30N19] > > > > > > > > Do you notice that the Faisal kundali will have only ONE planet drawn > > from the varsh phal and the janma kundali i.e. Rahu in the 7th. If we > > add Jupiter , the Dhoke ka grah, in the 10th house , then there will be > > just two planets in the entire kundali. > > > > > > > > Would any astrologer ever consider a kundali consisting of only two > > planets as a representative kundali? I do not think so. > > > > > > > > Lets take another example : > > > > > > > > Prepare a Faisala kundali of the 29th year for the following details. > > > > > > > > Date of birth : September 2 , 1981 > > > > Time of birth : 3: 20 AM > > > > Place of birth : Jalandhar [ 75E34 ; 31N20 ] > > > > > > > > In this case the faisala kundali will have only TWO planets drawn from > > the varshphal and the Janma kundali i.e. sun in the 3rd and ketu in the > > 7th. If we add Mars as the dhoke ka grah in the 10th house, then there > > will be only three planets in the entire kundali. Just 3 planets out of > > 9 planets is not a good score. > > > > > > > > Thus there can be umpteen cases where we might get such unrepresentative > > placements of planets. > > > > > > > > With this unrepresentative nature of the Faisala kundali, I am not > > surprised that Pt. Roopchand ji never took it up for any further > > discussion or application. > > > > > > > > The first and the last mention of the Faisala kundali was done on the > > last page of the 1942 ed. The Faisala kundali was never mentioned again. > > > > > > > > I seek the opinion of other Lal Kitab scholars on this issue, if they > > choose to speak. > > > > > > > > Should we accept the faisala kundali as a tool of analysis, in spite of > > the fact that, at times, it may not be representative of the varsh phal > > and the janma kundali? > > > > > > > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Respected Guruji, You are a noted authority on the subject.It is due to your selfless devotion and guidance that many principles and many misconceptions about lalkitab have been cleared. Even your die hard critics read your messages with utmost care and seek directions from them. It hardly matters whether they acknowledge it or not. If your message has even a remote possibility of wrong interpretetion it can have grave consequences. I just wanted to clear out that all. Regards. Kulbir. On 7/26/09, < wrote: > Dear Kulbir ji, > > Thank you so much for your note. I never said that the ‘Faisala kundali’ > is redundant. All I wanted to point out was that the ‘Faisala kundali’ > can be used only selectively. It can not be used across the board. > > Even the small directive given on page 382 of the 1942 ed bears me out when > it says “ jo grah do dafa aven vah apana faisala is nayee kundali ke > mutabik achha ya bura kismet ka faisala denge. agar is tarteeb se na aven > vah varshphal ke mutabik phal denge†> > i.e. the ‘faisala kundali’ should be used only if there are such planets > which have been repeated twice otherwise only the varsh phal kundali be > studied. > > It means that the ‘faisal kundali’ has a very selective and limited use. > It can not be used all the time and every time. > > God bless you. > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > , kulbir bance <kulbirbance > wrote: >> >> Guruji, >> >> Doesn't KP system goes by some particular planets instead of >> all 9. Also dasha system like sade sati etc. Where a few get dominance >> over other planets. >> >> I think it is too early to call this method >> redundant. Since no one has been able to decode the formula of >> varshphal we can't scrap it only on that ground. Lets not hurry. >> >> We have analysis by only 2 scholars. Lets wait for a few more. Still >> there are doudts over dhoke ka grah. After this basic grammer rules >> have to be checked and applied. >> >> Shukla ji straight away jumped upon predictive part. This hurry spoiled >> the fruits. Kindly give me some time. We can understand it but a little >> patience is required. >> >> Regards. >> >> Kulbir. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7/26/09, < wrote: >> > >> > Dear members, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I had not given any thought to the Faisala kundali till Vipin Shukla ji >> > came out with a very detailed analysis. I know he must have put a lot of >> > effort into it. Any path breaking research needs such effort. >> > >> > >> > >> > It was the Vipin’s analysis which made me go into the detailed >> > study of the Faisala Kundali. >> > >> > >> > >> > I regret saying that I have not found the Faisala kundali as >> > representative as a janma kundali or a varsh phal kundali can be. Any >> > kundali becomes representative only if all or most of the 9 planets are >> > represented in it. At times this does not happen with the Faisala >> > kundali. >> > >> > >> > >> > Therefore I have reservations about accepting the Faisala kundali as a >> > tool of analysis. A tool is accepted only if it is consistent, and has >> > no fluctuations/variations, under all circumstances. >> > >> > >> > >> > What I mean by saying that the faisal kundali not being an acceptable >> > tool of analysis, you can verify for yourself. >> > >> > >> > >> > Prepare a Faisala kundali of the 46th year for the following details. >> > >> > >> > >> > Date of birth : February 6 , 1962 >> > >> > Time of birth : 6:25 AM >> > >> > Place of birth : Patiala [ 76E24 ; 30N19] >> > >> > >> > >> > Do you notice that the Faisal kundali will have only ONE planet drawn >> > from the varsh phal and the janma kundali i.e. Rahu in the 7th. If we >> > add Jupiter , the Dhoke ka grah, in the 10th house , then there will be >> > just two planets in the entire kundali. >> > >> > >> > >> > Would any astrologer ever consider a kundali consisting of only two >> > planets as a representative kundali? I do not think so. >> > >> > >> > >> > Lets take another example : >> > >> > >> > >> > Prepare a Faisala kundali of the 29th year for the following details. >> > >> > >> > >> > Date of birth : September 2 , 1981 >> > >> > Time of birth : 3: 20 AM >> > >> > Place of birth : Jalandhar [ 75E34 ; 31N20 ] >> > >> > >> > >> > In this case the faisala kundali will have only TWO planets drawn from >> > the varshphal and the Janma kundali i.e. sun in the 3rd and ketu in the >> > 7th. If we add Mars as the dhoke ka grah in the 10th house, then there >> > will be only three planets in the entire kundali. Just 3 planets out of >> > 9 planets is not a good score. >> > >> > >> > >> > Thus there can be umpteen cases where we might get such unrepresentative >> > placements of planets. >> > >> > >> > >> > With this unrepresentative nature of the Faisala kundali, I am not >> > surprised that Pt. Roopchand ji never took it up for any further >> > discussion or application. >> > >> > >> > >> > The first and the last mention of the Faisala kundali was done on the >> > last page of the 1942 ed. The Faisala kundali was never mentioned again. >> > >> > >> > >> > I seek the opinion of other Lal Kitab scholars on this issue, if they >> > choose to speak. >> > >> > >> > >> > Should we accept the faisala kundali as a tool of analysis, in spite of >> > the fact that, at times, it may not be representative of the varsh phal >> > and the janma kundali? >> > >> > >> > >> > Bhooshan Priya >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Dear Kulbir ji, You are absolutely right. I thank you for giving me an opportunity to explain my point of view once again. Any ambiguity or fogginess in a write-up could lead to loss of intelligibility. Although I try to be as precise as possible in my write-ups, still at times the fogginess creeps in. I will be careful in future. As far as the Lal Kitab is concerned, I have only an academic interest in it, and I try to be as objective as I would with my own life time academic interest in Linguistics and Acoustic Phonetics. I know my severe scientific discipline and attitude towards the Lal Kitab is not liked by many, but this is what I had trained myself in and now it has become a second nature with me. You, me and others are travelers in arms, we have to complete this journey together; a journey into the mystique of the Lal Kitab. The purpose is to pave way for those who follow to have a comfortable journey with better and greater understanding. Let me bear the brickbats, howls and jeers. But then no initial journey has ever been without its share of thorns. God bless you, Bhooshan Priya , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > Respected Guruji, > > You are a noted authority on the subject.It is due to your selfless devotion and guidance that many principles and many misconceptions about lalkitab have been cleared. > > Even your die hard critics read your messages with utmost care and seek directions from them. It hardly matters whether they acknowledge it or not. > > If your message has even a remote possibility of wrong interpretetion it can have grave consequences. I just wanted to clear out that all. > > Regards. > > Kulbir. > > > > On 7/26/09, < wrote: > > Dear Kulbir ji, > > > > Thank you so much for your note. I never said that the ‘Faisala kundali’ > > is redundant. All I wanted to point out was that the ‘Faisala kundali’ > > can be used only selectively. It can not be used across the board. > > > > Even the small directive given on page 382 of the 1942 ed bears me out when > > it says “ jo grah do dafa aven vah apana faisala is nayee kundali ke > > mutabik achha ya bura kismet ka faisala denge. agar is tarteeb se na aven > > vah varshphal ke mutabik phal denge�� > > > > i.e. the ‘faisala kundali’ should be used only if there are such planets > > which have been repeated twice otherwise only the varsh phal kundali be > > studied. > > > > It means that the ‘faisal kundali’ has a very selective and limited use. > > It can not be used all the time and every time. > > > > God bless you. > > > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance <kulbirbance@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Guruji, > >> > >> Doesn't KP system goes by some particular planets instead of > >> all 9. Also dasha system like sade sati etc. Where a few get dominance > >> over other planets. > >> > >> I think it is too early to call this method > >> redundant. Since no one has been able to decode the formula of > >> varshphal we can't scrap it only on that ground. Lets not hurry. > >> > >> We have analysis by only 2 scholars. Lets wait for a few more. Still > >> there are doudts over dhoke ka grah. After this basic grammer rules > >> have to be checked and applied. > >> > >> Shukla ji straight away jumped upon predictive part. This hurry spoiled > >> the fruits. Kindly give me some time. We can understand it but a little > >> patience is required. > >> > >> Regards. > >> > >> Kulbir. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 7/26/09, <@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear members, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I had not given any thought to the Faisala kundali till Vipin Shukla ji > >> > came out with a very detailed analysis. I know he must have put a lot of > >> > effort into it. Any path breaking research needs such effort. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > It was the Vipin’s analysis which made me go into the detailed > >> > study of the Faisala Kundali. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I regret saying that I have not found the Faisala kundali as > >> > representative as a janma kundali or a varsh phal kundali can be. Any > >> > kundali becomes representative only if all or most of the 9 planets are > >> > represented in it. At times this does not happen with the Faisala > >> > kundali. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Therefore I have reservations about accepting the Faisala kundali as a > >> > tool of analysis. A tool is accepted only if it is consistent, and has > >> > no fluctuations/variations, under all circumstances. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > What I mean by saying that the faisal kundali not being an acceptable > >> > tool of analysis, you can verify for yourself. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Prepare a Faisala kundali of the 46th year for the following details. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Date of birth : February 6 , 1962 > >> > > >> > Time of birth : 6:25 AM > >> > > >> > Place of birth : Patiala [ 76E24 ; 30N19] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Do you notice that the Faisal kundali will have only ONE planet drawn > >> > from the varsh phal and the janma kundali i.e. Rahu in the 7th. If we > >> > add Jupiter , the Dhoke ka grah, in the 10th house , then there will be > >> > just two planets in the entire kundali. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Would any astrologer ever consider a kundali consisting of only two > >> > planets as a representative kundali? I do not think so. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Lets take another example : > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Prepare a Faisala kundali of the 29th year for the following details. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Date of birth : September 2 , 1981 > >> > > >> > Time of birth : 3: 20 AM > >> > > >> > Place of birth : Jalandhar [ 75E34 ; 31N20 ] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > In this case the faisala kundali will have only TWO planets drawn from > >> > the varshphal and the Janma kundali i.e. sun in the 3rd and ketu in the > >> > 7th. If we add Mars as the dhoke ka grah in the 10th house, then there > >> > will be only three planets in the entire kundali. Just 3 planets out of > >> > 9 planets is not a good score. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thus there can be umpteen cases where we might get such unrepresentative > >> > placements of planets. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > With this unrepresentative nature of the Faisala kundali, I am not > >> > surprised that Pt. Roopchand ji never took it up for any further > >> > discussion or application. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > The first and the last mention of the Faisala kundali was done on the > >> > last page of the 1942 ed. The Faisala kundali was never mentioned again. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I seek the opinion of other Lal Kitab scholars on this issue, if they > >> > choose to speak. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Should we accept the faisala kundali as a tool of analysis, in spite of > >> > the fact that, at times, it may not be representative of the varsh phal > >> > and the janma kundali? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Bhooshan Priya > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from my mobile device > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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