Welcome to

[Guest guest]

Hi there.

 

I was signed on as Feyline earlier, through AOL, but

I'm about to close my AOL account, so I'm

re-establishing the groups I want through a new

address.

 

I'm a student of astrology, haven't had enough time to

indulge in learning more lately, am learning

delineation and interpretation, and I think that this

list is going to be very helpful in becoming more

accurate. I look forward to learning and talking with

all of you.

 

Thanks,

 

Sylver Mystic

 

 

 

Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.

/

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My name is Deedee and I just joined the group.

My DOB is 9/02/1961. I am a married mother of 3 girls and I live in Andover

Minnesota. I joined the group because I have never felt much like a Virgo, My

Libra rising fits me well but definality not the Virgo!

I am very curious to see if Sidereal astrology could explain why things have

never fit in standard astrology method for me.

I havent a clue how this method works so I will have to study up on this and

try to follow your posts.

Looking forward to learning !

Deedee

[Guest guest]

> Now that you're here, why not take a moment to introduce yourself to

everyone?

 

I am looking at the position of the sun at March 21, 0 time UT, on a sky map

on my computer. The sun is on the intersection of the ecliptic and the

equator at 0. Mercury is conjunct the sun. It is beautiful. I am also

looking at two charts for the event. The sidereal chart gives the position

of the sun as 5-Pisces-11. The tropical chart gives the position of the sun

as 29-Pisces-58. The skymap, again, projects the event as occurring in

Pisces, but it appears to be closer to the head than the tail. Are we on the

same page?

[Guest guest]

Hi Brian,

 

Yes, you are correct. The Sidereal Zodiac, by definition, has a

fiducial point ( " 0* Aries " ) that is some distance separated from the

vernal point of the Tropical Zodiac. That differnce, or " delta, " is

defined as the " Annual general precession, " which is currently

measured as: p = 50 " .2564 + 0 " .0222 T; " T " is = Time measured in

Julian centuries from 1900.0.

 

http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/~baa/computing/handbo~2.htm

 

And, as I tried to explain here two or three months ago -- only to be

met with attacks by members who completely missed the point -- the

Sidereal Zodiac is therefore a secondary measurement system because

it can only be plotted in relation to the Tropical Zodiac -- not the

other way around. This is why NASA and all of astronomy uses the

Tropical measuring systems.

 

Not that this fact negates the astrological validity of the Sidereal

Zodiac, but it does show that the best way to map the sky is with the

node of the equatorial grid and the ecliptic, or the Tropical

Zodiacal " 0* Aries " point.

 

Best regards,

Ed K

 

 

 

 

, " Brian Higgins "

<brianrhiggins@e...> wrote:

> > Now that you're here, why not take a moment to introduce yourself

to

> everyone?

>

> I am looking at the position of the sun at March 21, 0 time UT, on

a sky map

> on my computer. The sun is on the intersection of the ecliptic and

the

> equator at 0. Mercury is conjunct the sun. It is beautiful. I am

also

> looking at two charts for the event. The sidereal chart gives the

position

> of the sun as 5-Pisces-11. The tropical chart gives the position of

the sun

> as 29-Pisces-58. The skymap, again, projects the event as occurring

in

> Pisces, but it appears to be closer to the head than the tail. Are

we on the

> same page?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for approving my group subscription! (Now I can review the archive.)

(BH)

 

Yet, this does not mean that sidereal astrology is somehow invalid.

I say that one can slice and dice the orb of heaven however one

likes, as long as it makes sense from the mathematical standpoint.

The elliptical plane is very steady against the backdrop of the sky,

and any fiducial point can serve as a " 0 Aries " as long as one keeps

it there, and observes how the planets move about it.

 

- Ed K

[Guest guest]

, " Brian Higgins "

<brianrhiggins@e...> wrote:

> Thanks for approving my group subscription! (Now I can review the

archive.)

> (BH)

>

> Yet, this does not mean that sidereal astrology is somehow invalid.

> I say that one can slice and dice the orb of heaven however one

> likes, as long as it makes sense from the mathematical standpoint.

> The elliptical plane is very steady against the backdrop of the

sky,

> and any fiducial point can serve as a " 0 Aries " as long as one

keeps

> it there, and observes how the planets move about it.

>

> - Ed K

 

, " brianrhiggins2003 "

<brianrhiggins@e...> wrote:

> True or false: The 0-Aries equinox returns to that position in

> roughly 24,000 years.

> (BH)

>

> *

 

What is your point?

 

- E

[Guest guest]

Not any niche is a Qibla.

 

>

> What is your point?

>

> - E

 

*

[Guest guest]

Hiya.

 

I've had immense respect for western sidereal astrology going back to the glory

days of Fagan and Firebrace -- later revealed to be the equally interesting

Stahl and Allen.

 

The angularity emphasis anticipated the findings of the Gaucelins, currently

being extended by Kenneth Irving in his American Astrology articles.

 

Because of this respect, sidereal ephemerides were included in the conveniences

we make available to astrologers at http://www.startiming.net (Stahl Allen

ayanamsah calculated by Astrolog 5.41f)

 

I am no precisionist in astrology... its not in me. But i expect to be royally

entertained by the virtues of others who post here.

 

Recklessly yours,

 

Jane Axtell

http://www.startiming.net

[Guest guest]

Aloha, Siderealists!

 

I'm new to the group and glad to be aboard. I've been learning

astrology in general (i.e.: tropical) for a few years now and still

consider myself a neophyte in many ways. I'm interested in Western

Sidereal for several reasons.

 

I'm curious whether avid Siderealists generally prefer Siderealism

because they think of it as more accurate on a predictive basis

(forecasting) or on an interpretitive/psychological basis

(understanding self and others) or both or something else. I'm also

curious how connected to the astrological community at large

Siderealists feel. Is there a Sidereal community to speak of? Do

Siderealists ever gather with Vedic or Tropical astrologers socially?

Also, because Sidereal astrology changes Sun signs for so many people

and the general public knows only their Tropical Sun sign, is it very

difficult as a Sidereal astrologer to explain to non-astrologer

friends and clients why they're not Leos but Cancers?

 

My Sun is in Pisces in both Tropical and Sidereal astrology yet my

Ascendant changes from Aquarius to Capricorn. I'm not really certain

whether the symbolism of the planets, luminaries and

ascendant/descendant remain the same in Sidereal or whether they have

different meanings. If there's a file or website or book that

addresses this, I'd love to learn more.

 

Best,

 

Gib

 

On 13 May 2005 19:25:48 -0000, Moderator

<-owner > wrote:

>

> Dear New Member:

>

> Hello! And thanks for showning interest in the Sidereal Zodiac by joining

.

>

> Now that you're here, why not take a moment to introduce yourself to everyone?

Be sure to send it to , and not as a reply to

this post. (After that, you may lurk to your heart's content.)

>

> Or, as the people at want me to say, welcome to the list.

Please take a moment to review this message.

>

> Please note that in order to prevent spammers from posting, you will be a

moderated member until you've sent your first post.

>

> Be sure to check out the Links section for some very informative websites,

too. And, if you know of any Sidereally-oriented websites that aren't on our

links list, please feel free to add them.

>

> Finally, to from this list, go to the groups website, at

, and select the My Groups link from the menu bar on the

left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and

normal mode. Or, if it's more convenient, just send a post to

- .

>

> Thanks again,

> Kevin Bold

> karmabum15237

> The List Owner

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 02:05 PM 5/13/05 -0700, Gib wrote:

>Aloha, Siderealists!

>

>I'm new to the group and glad to be aboard. I've been learning

>astrology in general (i.e.: tropical) for a few years now and still

>consider myself a neophyte in many ways. I'm interested in Western

>Sidereal for several reasons.

 

Hello Gib,

 

Welcome to the sidereal list! You wrote:

>

>I'm curious whether avid Siderealists generally prefer Siderealism

>because they think of it as more accurate on a predictive basis

>(forecasting) or on an interpretitive/psychological basis

>(understanding self and others)...

 

The strong point of using the sidereal zodiac, whether the western version

or India's version, is that siderealists believe that sidereal techniques

give superior predictions. The Fagan-Allen school is extremely prcise when

using solar and lunar return charts. These charts are very different

(different angles) in the tropical and sidereal zodiacs. India's astrology

used other methods in prediction.

 

Sidereal astrology doesn't do as much with psychological astrology. This

isn't to say it isn't possible; it's just that prediction has been

emphasized in the past.

 

>I'm curious how connected to the astrological community at large

>Siderealists feel. Is there a Sidereal community to speak of? Do

>Siderealists ever gather with Vedic or Tropical astrologers socially?

 

I know that there's some mixing and communicating on Lois Rodden's

AstroDatabank site between Tropical and Jyotish astrologers. Someone else

who attends conferences would have to give you information on what happens

at workshops and conferences.

 

Probably the main meeting place for sidereal astrolgoers of the Fagan-Allen

school is the Physics of Sidereal Astrology forum (). Mostly they

understand each other, but this math intensive system leaves many others in

the dark. On this site (here) there's a grand mixture of all kinds of

sidereal techniques.

 

>Also, because Sidereal astrology changes Sun signs for so many people

>and the general public knows only their Tropical Sun sign, is it very

>difficult as a Sidereal astrologer to explain to non-astrologer

>friends and clients why they're not Leos but Cancers?

 

This question needs a lot more exploring. I've made a start on this, but I

don't believe some astrologers of the Fagan-Allen school like my approach.

However, Tropical astrologers have commented that the concepts have helped

them to understand sidereal signs. YOu might find articles on the site

below interesting, especially The Lost Zodiac, parts 1, 2 and 3 and the

individual signs and notes by Chiria.

 

http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

 

>My Sun is in Pisces in both Tropical and Sidereal astrology yet my

>Ascendant changes from Aquarius to Capricorn. I'm not really certain

>whether the symbolism of the planets, luminaries and

>ascendant/descendant remain the same in Sidereal or whether they have

>different meanings. If there's a file or website or book that

>addresses this, I'd love to learn more.

 

The signs have different meanings, but the same planets rule the signs. The

houses may have generally the same meanings, but houses aren't so important

in western sidereal astrology. They are very important in Jyotish, however,

and are close in meaning to the Tropical system.

 

The question is, " Do the observed traits of a sign fit the Tropical or

sidereal lord of the sign better? What about the mythology of the planets

and signs? The site noted above explores some of these questions.

 

The way I interpret signs, if your Sun is in Pisces in both zodiacs, then

it will behave more like a Tropical Aries sun because sidereal Pisces is

like Tropical Aries. The final degrees of Tropical Pisces are in the same

sky area as the early degrees of sidereal Pisces. How's that for mental

tongue twisting?!

 

Please feel free to ask further questions.

 

Sincerely,

 

Therese

Acting Moderator

[Guest guest]

Hello Gib. I started exploring Sidereal techniques almost 30 years

ago. I was unhappy over conventional (Tropical) astrology being a

bit wishy-washy when it came to secondary progressions and transits.

I noted that even well-known professional astrologers often had to

stretch things after the fact to prove their progressions and

transit triggers or other methods. Noel Tyl had a number of paper-

back books out, a series of 12, that covered different aspects of

astrology. The 12th book had one chapter on Sidereal Solar Returns

and it was dynamite. Then I noted some comments by Rob Hand about

the same topics. It didn't take me long to then notice American

Astrologies series by Cyril Fagan. I picked up Bradley's little

book and was blown away. Three years after learning Tropical

astrology and its methods I switched over.

 

There are no Siderelists in my area that I know of. Those that I

had converted have since moved. So, finding this and other similar

groups on the Internet has been a welcome change. I used to do a

lot of Lunar Returns but have concentrated lately on precession

corrected Solar Returns (Tropical correct for precession) and PSSRs -

- PSSRs are the " in-between " charts (from one S/R to the next S/R)

that show the moving angles and the planet's places with respect to

that " daily " chart. They are fantastic. You read the chart based

on the planets that are at the angles. Its like shorthand that is

incredibly accurate and the timing is quite precise.

 

So, to answer some of your questions. Yes, I read the natal chart

as is normally done -- I de-emphasize signs quite a bit, and

concentrate on houses, angels and planet-aspects. That chart has to

be expressed through any of the subsidiary charts -- Solar Returns,

Lunar Returns, PSSRs or any other type of chart. Then, I do the S/R

chart and sort of read it like the natal chart with a little more

emphasis on the angular house areas. Finally, I run either specific

PSSR charts for a given day(s) or I plot the moving angles (sine-

wave like) for the year so that I can see when an ASC or MC of the

PSSR will contact natal or S/R angles or important planets. This

whole process both enables me to understand the person and to define

the events (and their dates) ahead of time that they will face and

react to. So, understanding the person and recognizing the

developing challenges they are comming up against provides both a

predictive view and an understanding of the whole person.

 

Welcome to the list. Dave.