Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:39:41 EST, aumgn93 kirjoitti: >For transits of the transpersonal planets, I find that they're most apt to >kick in when either conjuncting or tightly squaring the angles in a Sidereal >Solar Quotidian or Progressed Sidereal Solar Return. Just a note about PSSR-chart calculating software: The latest version of Solar Fire (5) performs the calculations with breeze. Also, the freeware program Riyal lists the " mundane " PSSR angle crossings of planets as stated in the readme.txt included with the program: " PROGRESSED SOLAR RETURNS: You have the option to progress the solar return (tropical or sidereal), which is done by the PSSR " anniversary second " method of siderealists. The progession is shown day by day from one anniversary to the next, with the progressed angles of the return and the conjunctions of all radical, solar, and transiting bodies. " Both Solar Fire and Riyal can also calculate planet positions in Campanus mundoscopes (as does Win*Star and possibly some other programs, too). You can download Riyal at: http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/riyal.html-ssi Risto Vartiainen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 I've got Solar Fire 5 and I would love to calculate charts in mundo with this software. How do you do it? Other questions for you..... When you calculate the PSSR in Solar Fire what type of progression angle do you use? Do you use Standard Rate or Bija Rates? What rate do you use for primary directions? I 'm curious to learn what works for you.. Jivio Risto Vartiainen [sMTP:rvarti] Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:01 PM PSSR charts Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:39:41 EST, aumgn93 kirjoitti: >For transits of the transpersonal planets, I find that they're most apt to >kick in when either conjuncting or tightly squaring the angles in a Sidereal >Solar Quotidian or Progressed Sidereal Solar Return. Just a note about PSSR-chart calculating software: The latest version of Solar Fire (5) performs the calculations with breeze. Also, the freeware program Riyal lists the " mundane " PSSR angle crossings of planets as stated in the readme.txt included with the program: " PROGRESSED SOLAR RETURNS: You have the option to progress the solar return (tropical or sidereal), which is done by the PSSR " anniversary second " method of siderealists. The progession is shown day by day from one anniversary to the next, with the progressed angles of the return and the conjunctions of all radical, solar, and transiting bodies. " Both Solar Fire and Riyal can also calculate planet positions in Campanus mundoscopes (as does Win*Star and possibly some other programs, too). You can download Riyal at: http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/riyal.html-ssi Risto Vartiainen " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:44:10 -0400, jsarlya kirjoitti: >I've got Solar Fire 5 and I would love to calculate charts in mundo with this software. How do you do it? > First, you should check that your Solar Fire 5 version is 5.0.17 or later. If not, you should update the program at www.alabe.com. I think that the mundo position listings were added last November, so if your version is of earlier date, it cannot calculate the Campanus & Placidus mundoscope positions. Even then, you cannot get mundoscopes in a chart form, only as tabulated positions in a Flexible Point list. I do not think there is even any ready made chart page available in SF with listed mundo positions, so you have to create your own with the Page Designer module of the program. With it you can easily create a new chart page layout or edit your favorite one to include a Flexible Point list containing either the Placidus or Prime Vertical types of mundo positions, or both. Other items you can include in the Flexible Point listing are, for instance, R.A. and Declination, Azimuth and Altitude and Rise/Set/Culmination/Anti-Culmination values (for paran checking). >Other questions for you..... >When you calculate the PSSR in Solar Fire what type of progression angle do you use? >Do you use Standard Rate or Bija Rates? Well, if I have a correct understanding on this, the PSSR angles are determined by *interpolating* between the R.A.s of the midheavens of the preceding and following sidereal solar returns (plus one whole 360º rotation). Thus, it is not necessary to choose a rate here, because it is contained in the definition. With Quotidian angles it's a different matter, though, and using them I tend to prefer the Standard rate, which - I've heard - is favored by some sidereal astrologers, too. (I interpret birth charts using tropical signs, but always account for precession in return charts.) But I have an open mind on this, and am ready to adjust my practices, if need be... >What rate do you use for primary directions? I really don't use primaries too much, but when I do, I use Naibod arc (meaning; the mean progression of sidereal time). I use Naibod arc in R.A. with secondary progressions, too (though admittedly this system of progressing the angles is nearer to the rationale of Primary Directions). > >I 'm curious to learn what works for you.. Well, it seems I am just forever trying to determine that for myself! For instance, I have not found Lunar Returns completely trustworthy in any method - tropical/sidereal/parallax-corrected or not - or their combination. " Fixed frame " Solar Returns, instead, have really never failed me yet. Risto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hello, everyone. To do a PSSR, you must first do the native's most recent Sidereal Solar Return and then their next one. For best results, do them for the location of the event in question. Next, subtract the first year's SSR's sidereal time from that of the second. The difference will be somewhere between 30 and 31 hours. Divide this difference by 24.00093 hours. The result will be around 1.25. This is the PSSR Constant, and you will use it for every PSSR in that Solar Return period. Subtract the current SSR's Sun's Right Ascension from the day in question's Sun's Right Ascension. Multiply the difference by the constant, and add it to the SSR's Sidereal Time. This will give you the PSSR's Sidereal Time. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:06:33 EDT, aumgn93 kirjoitti: >To do a PSSR, you must first do the native's most recent Sidereal Solar >Return and then their next one. For best results, do them for the location >of the event in question. > >Next, subtract the first year's SSR's sidereal time from that of the second. >The difference will be somewhere between 30 and 31 hours. Here, of course, before subtracting one has to add 24h to the sidereal time of the next SSR - or even 48h, if the second sidereal time is smaller than the first - in order to get that 30h+ difference. > >Divide this difference by 24.00093 hours. The result will be around 1.25. >This is the PSSR Constant, and you will use it for every PSSR in that Solar >Return period. > >Subtract the current SSR's Sun's Right Ascension from the day in question's >Sun's Right Ascension. Multiply the difference by the constant, and add it >to the SSR's Sidereal Time. This will give you the PSSR's Sidereal Time. Using the difference between the R.A.'s of transiting and SSR Sun to proportion the sidereal time between the returns is the controversial part here. I understand this is not the way the PSSRs were originally calculated by Fagan, but represents a later twist to calculations added by Alexander Marr, and then adopted by various later authors. In fact, there is no need to establish a relation between the solar arc of the transiting sun in R.A. and the progression of sidereal time between the returns. The latter is simply a linear sidereal rotation, which has nothing to do with the irregular speed of the transiting sun. According to the original rationale, as set forth by Fagan, one only needs to calculate the proportion of time that has passed between the successive SSR's, multiply the 30h+ ST difference by this proportion and then add the result to the sidereal time of the previous SSR. As such, it is a very simple calculation. Risto V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 What's funny about all of this... is..... That astrologers have become so dependent on software programs to do their charts for them.. I waited for the longest time to be able to afford a PC that could calculate charts. I wouldn't do it any other way... But problems arise when programmers fail to define the particulars of the various procedures they use to calculate charts. Does all software offer the same instruction and information? Do they all offer correct calculations? Information has become suspect.... The Progressed Sidereal Solar Return was one of many " tools " utilized by the Fagan/Bradley School. The Standard Rate and the Neo Rate in which PSSR's can be calculated were both offered as techniques to research. In the sidereal community both have found their proponents and their detractors... The same for the Standard rate versus the Bija rate... The Mean Quotidian rate, the Apparent Quotidian rate and the Neo-Quotidian rate The Lunar Return and the Lunar Phase Return... Opps... Less we forget... The Anlunar Return... Does anybody do Regressed Returns? Jivio..... Risto Vartiainen [sMTP:rvarti] Wednesday, April 04, 2001 6:48 PM Re: PSSR charts Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:06:33 EDT, aumgn93 kirjoitti: >To do a PSSR, you must first do the native's most recent Sidereal Solar >Return and then their next one. For best results, do them for the location >of the event in question. > >Next, subtract the first year's SSR's sidereal time from that of the second. >The difference will be somewhere between 30 and 31 hours. Here, of course, before subtracting one has to add 24h to the sidereal time of the next SSR - or even 48h, if the second sidereal time is smaller than the first - in order to get that 30h+ difference. > >Divide this difference by 24.00093 hours. The result will be around 1.25. >This is the PSSR Constant, and you will use it for every PSSR in that Solar >Return period. > >Subtract the current SSR's Sun's Right Ascension from the day in question's >Sun's Right Ascension. Multiply the difference by the constant, and add it >to the SSR's Sidereal Time. This will give you the PSSR's Sidereal Time. Using the difference between the R.A.'s of transiting and SSR Sun to proportion the sidereal time between the returns is the controversial part here. I understand this is not the way the PSSRs were originally calculated by Fagan, but represents a later twist to calculations added by Alexander Marr, and then adopted by various later authors. In fact, there is no need to establish a relation between the solar arc of the transiting sun in R.A. and the progression of sidereal time between the returns. The latter is simply a linear sidereal rotation, which has nothing to do with the irregular speed of the transiting sun. According to the original rationale, as set forth by Fagan, one only needs to calculate the proportion of time that has passed between the successive SSR's, multiply the 30h+ ST difference by this proportion and then add the result to the sidereal time of the previous SSR. As such, it is a very simple calculation. Risto V " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2001 Report Share Posted April 17, 2001 , " jsarlya@e... " <jivio> wrote: > What's funny about all of this... is..... > > That astrologers have become so dependent on software programs to do their charts for them.. > > I waited for the longest time to be able to afford a PC that could calculate charts. I wouldn't do it any other way... But problems arise when programmers fail to define the particulars of the various procedures they use to calculate charts. After having to learn trigonometry in 1981 in order to get through Stahl's Manual it was discovered that Matrix Software had a Speculum Program which did the work for the Commodore 64. They did add sidereal techniques to their software, Solunars, SQ and PSSR during the mid 80's. When they made the jump to IBM/PC software, some of the sidereal techniques were lost, especially the PSSR. Jack Sirildo Contreras Western Sidereal Astrologer www.siderealzodiac.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2001 Report Share Posted April 21, 2001 , Risto Vartiainen <rvarti@d...> wrote: > Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:44:10 -0400, jsarlya@e... kirjoitti: > > >I've got Solar Fire 5 and I would love to calculate charts in mundo with this software. How do you do it? > > > > First, you should check that your Solar Fire 5 version is 5.0.17 or > later. If not, you should update the program at www.alabe.com. I think > that the mundo position listings were added last November, so if your > version is of earlier date, it cannot calculate the Campanus & > Placidus mundoscope positions. > > Even then, you cannot get mundoscopes in a chart form, only as > tabulated positions in a Flexible Point list. I do not think there is > even any ready made chart page available in SF with listed mundo > positions, so you have to create your own with the Page Designer > module of the program. With it you can easily create a new chart page > layout or edit your favorite one to include a Flexible Point list > containing either the Placidus or Prime Vertical types of mundo > positions, or both. Other items you can include in the Flexible Point > listing are, for instance, R.A. and Declination, Azimuth and Altitude > and Rise/Set/Culmination/Anti-Culmination values (for paran checking). > > >Other questions for you..... > >When you calculate the PSSR in Solar Fire what type of progression angle do you use? > >Do you use Standard Rate or Bija Rates? > > Well, if I have a correct understanding on this, the PSSR angles are > determined by *interpolating* between the R.A.s of the midheavens of > the preceding and following sidereal solar returns (plus one whole > 360º rotation). Thus, it is not necessary to choose a rate here, > because it is contained in the definition. With Quotidian angles it's > a different matter, though, and using them I tend to prefer the > Standard rate, which - I've heard - is favored by some sidereal > astrologers, too. (I interpret birth charts using tropical signs, but > always account for precession in return charts.) But I have an open > mind on this, and am ready to adjust my practices, if need be... > > >What rate do you use for primary directions? > > I really don't use primaries too much, but when I do, I use Naibod arc > (meaning; the mean progression of sidereal time). I use Naibod arc in > R.A. with secondary progressions, too (though admittedly this system > of progressing the angles is nearer to the rationale of Primary > Directions). > > > >I 'm curious to learn what works for you.. > > Well, it seems I am just forever trying to determine that for myself! > For instance, I have not found Lunar Returns completely trustworthy in > any method - tropical/sidereal/parallax-corrected or not - or their > combination. " Fixed frame " Solar Returns, instead, have really never > failed me yet. > > Risto Risto..... I am new to Sidereal and this group. What is a " Fixed Frame " Solar Return? Thanks:) --Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2001 Report Share Posted April 21, 2001 Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:44:38 -0000, skipgoforth kirjoitti: >Risto..... > >I am new to Sidereal and this group. > >What is a " Fixed Frame " Solar Return? > >Thanks:) > I am just in general referring to Solar Returns in calculation of which the effect of precession has been accounted for. " Fixed frame " returns thus cover both sidereal and precessed tropical returns. Risto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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