Tropical Taurus/Sidereal Aries

[Guest guest]

SIDEREAL SIGNS, PART 1: TROPICAL TAURUS/SIDEREAL ARIES

 

Notes here are taken from old Tropical standard texts: THE ASTROLOGER'S

HANDBOOK by Sakoian and Acker (1973) and Robert Hand's HOROSCOPE SYMBOLS

(1981). Tropical Taurus is said to be:

 

" ...the sign of purposeful determination and power. Taureas have their own

methods of doing things, and if one wants a smooth relationship with them,

it is wise not to interfere...(AH 34-35)

 

Taurus is said to grant " stability, consistency and persistence. Taurus is

content to be by itself, relating to the world in its own way. " (HS 213-214)

 

Here's the problem in the Tropical zodiac: How can easy-going cooperative,

friendly relationship-oriented Venus be said to rule a sign which is

persistent, strong willed and content to be by itself? As the Moon's

exaltation sign, Tropical Taurus doesn't fare any better. The Moon is said

to rule change, cycles and fluctuation. Tropical astrology can say that the

Moon is stabilized in Taurus, but then the Moon is turned into another

planet and its innate symbolism is lost.

 

Suppose that the sign Tropical astrologers call Taurus is really Aries,

ruled by Mars and the loner planet, Pluto? Suppose this sign is the

exaltation of the strong and centered Sun? Supppose the " power " of this

sign relates to Mars and the Sun rather than to Venus and the Moon?

 

" His is the power of quiet persistence in the face of difficulties. He

(Taurus) has found his true position with regard to the universe, and that

position is the CENTER. " (Sound like the Sun?) (from Pagan's PIONEER TO

POET, p. 23)

 

Aries is the lunar sign of Mars, so we see a stubbornness and sometimes a

rigidity here. But we also see the persistence of which Mars is capable.

Think racer Dale Earnhardt with Mars, Sun, Mercury all in Aries conjunct an

Aries MC.) Dale lived and breathed his sport of racing cars, a Mars symbol

if there ever was one. He reached the pinnacle--an exalted Sun conjunct the

M.C. The same for Hitler, the political star of Germany with his exalted

Aries Sun and other Aries planets in the 7th. But Hitler made war (7th).

 

Damon said: On the other hand, Tropical Taurus has many people that have

lead archtypal Aries lives: Jet Li, Adolf Hitler, Malcolm X, The

professional wrestler known as The Rock, and Al Pacino. Center in on the

nature of the spirits that guide these men. All of them give passionate and

angry speeches (except Jet Li). All of them were combative... "

 

Anyone with his Sun exalted in an angle (except maybe the 4th house) in

Sidereal Aries will stand out in some way, be a leader, have followers, be

the best in his/her sport, etc., be unique, one of a kind.

 

Aries women will in general not show the qualities of out-front

in-your-face feminine sexuality of a Mae West or Marilyn Monroe. How about

Katherine Hepburn, a durable superstar. But did she personify the lovely

Venus, ruler of Taurus, or was she more like Mars, one tough lady? (Sun and

Mercury in sidereal Aries in 7th) Queen Elizabeth II was third in line for

the throne, but became queen (leader/ruler) anyway. Sun in Sidereal Aries.

 

Shirley MacLaine, queen of comedy: Sun, Mars, Uranus in Sidereal Aries;

Barbara Streisand: Sun and Mercury in Aries. Both of these ladies stand out

as unique, one of a kind. There will never be another Streisand or

MacLaine, but neither will be remembered as symbols of their fair sex.

(Which one might expect from Venus-ruled Taurus planets.)

 

Next: Tropical Gemini/Sidereal Taurus

[Guest guest]

I think that it is important to note also that people with Sun in Aries often do

not reach the heights of fame that other signs do. To reach the peak in the

glamour business requires a lot of ass kissing, listening to the criticism and

temper tantrums of the director as well as a need to have confidence built on

other people's opinions. Sun in Aries and Leo will have the hardest time taking

orders from others, compromising their dignity for money or accepting anything

but a real position of power. They are not good at asking for the help of

others and they do not hold their anger when unjustly attacked (or attacked in

any manner).

 

Hitler spent most of his time in obscurity before rising to power, The Rock

recieved the help of an already successful wrestling father, and Jet Li choose a

profession that requires him to vent his violent temper and is much like being a

stunt man (which is an ideal profession for Aries)

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I have learned astrology through the tropical basis and totally

satisfied with it. I don't understand the point of sideral Astrology.

The sign are clearly linked to the symbolism of the Light of the Sun

during a year. Energy coming on Spring (Day>Night), Capricorn being

the point where the Light rises again (Day beginning to increase),

etc.

Someone neglecting the tropical sings would neglect one of the main

part of the astrological symbolism...

 

However, tropcial astrology is totally neglecting the value of stars,

constellations in an horoscop. There has to be a place for them,

explaining the fact that just changing 1° of a sign is changing the

whole energy, destiny and characters of the person even if the main

strucure (solar system) remain stable.

I think this is what " degrees " of an horoscop are all about.

 

So there is a research needed here.

 

Remarks :

 

> Here's the problem in the Tropical zodiac: How can easy-going

cooperative,

> friendly relationship-oriented Venus be said to rule a sign which is

> persistent, strong willed and content to be by itself?

 

....Taurus is linked with possession...It is the energy of the first

sign (aries) willing to rest, to find some piece, some pleasure. It

is the sign ruling the appetite for food and sex. The relation to the

outside world, teh material world, incarnation as a living principle.

No need to say that Venus is very welcome here as the planet of

Incarnation. (for your way of seeing Venus, just look at libra, the

second master)

 

Moreover it is only natural that a sign symbolsim and its master

symbolism have differences. They are not operating in the same fields.

 

As the Moon's

> exaltation sign, Tropical Taurus doesn't fare any better. The Moon

is said

> to rule change, cycles and fluctuation. Tropical astrology can say

that the

> Moon is stabilized in Taurus, but then the Moon is turned into

another

> planet and its innate symbolism is lost.

 

 

You cannot understand a symbolsim if you are just chosing to take a

part of it, just words.

The Moon is the planet of the link with the Mother. Even if

fluctuent, it is a planet symbolising a one and only link with the

outside world, as some kind of fusion and coolness. A planet linked

with the material part of man, the body, the physical life.

Here again, the link is obvious when you get to feel the desire of

Taurus and the Symbolism of the Moon.

 

 

Olivier

[Guest guest]

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. It seems that you are denial of the

facts that siderealist have come to realize. Astrology is based on the stars.

If you do not gaze at the stars as a basis for mapping the charts, if you use

some scientific formula that you got from a book authored by the New York Times

astrology column writer, then you are not an astrologer. You are fooling

yourself.

 

If you observe the mentality and behavior throughout the life of a tropical

Taurus' you will find that they bear little resemblance to the sweet, docile,

passive soul that is described in those words. Once again, I use as example

Adolf Hitler, Al Pacino, The Rock, Jet Lee, and Malcolm X. I ask you now, where

is that sweetness? Where is that bondage to the material world? What happened

to the passivity?

 

 

 

 

 

Greetings - send greetings for Easter, Passover

 

 

[Guest guest]

Oliver wrote:

 

>You cannot understand a symbolsim if you are just chosing to take a

>part of it, just words.

>The Moon is the planet of the link with the Mother. Even if

>fluctuent, it is a planet symbolising a one and only link with the

>outside world, as some kind of fusion and coolness. A planet linked

>with the material part of man, the body, the physical life.

>Here again, the link is obvious when you get to feel the desire of

>Taurus and the Symbolism of the Moon.

 

I'm sorry, Oliver, but all that sounds like " just words " to me. What are

you saying? Where are the people with prominent planets in Trop Taurus/Sid

Aries who have those traits? How would you ever even SEE those traits in a

person? What does this mean? " ...it is a planet symbolising a one and only

link with the outside world? "

 

I've been studying astrology for more than 25 years. I have almost all the

Tropical books from the 70s and 80s (I used to practice Tropical

astrology), but I don't ever remember reading anything like that. Or the

rest of your paragraph either. Venus is love and art, the Moon is change

and flucuation.

 

I happen to have a son with the Sun, Moon and Ascendant all in Tropical

Taurus/Sidereal Aries. He has no lunar or Venus traits. He studied airplane

mechanics (metal, Mars, also he has planets in Sidereal Gemini), was

totally occupied with Star Wars and Star Wars toys and little metal

Matchbox cars as a child for many years (Mars, metal, battles), and is now

a stunt bike rider who tours the country for a major bike company. (He is

" moving " all the time, and Aries is a cardinal, moving sign.)

 

Very little emphasis on girls (Venus) or the home and mother (Moon). I see

him once a year at Christmas time. He's a classic Sidereal Aries. (His Mars

is with Saturn in Sidereal Gemini, the 3rd house. Not what you'd all a

dominant Mars. He's not agressive, just very centered in himself and his

own life interests.)

 

Too much of the Tropical zodiac is philososphical fluff with no practical

application to horoscopes.

 

Sidereal Aries does rule what is basic and practical, but the symbolic link

here is to Mars, the most practical and down-to-earth of the planets.

 

Sincerely,

Terese