Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 At 11:58 AM 11/18/03 -0000, Antonio wrote: >I was born on February 22, 1961 at 05:00 AM, in Nampula, Mozambique >(longitude 39°17' east, latitude 15° 6' south, universal time 03:00). >Using SVP, my Sun is at Aquarius 9° 4' and my ascendant at Aquarius >3° 3' >... But if you feel like >it, perhaps you could explain to me why is it that I feel that the >tropical interpretation for Sun in Aquarius fits me so much better >than tropical interpretation for Sun in Pisces, even if in the >tropical zodiac my Sun is in Pisces. Hi Antonio, (Belated apologies for my writing program not having the ability to put the accent mark over the'o' in your name.) Thanks very much for the details of your birth data because my astro program pulled up more than one Nampula, and I wouldn't have known which one to choose if you handn't given the latitude and longitude. These values were slightly different in my program, but the chart wouldn't be changed enough to matter. For anyone who is following this discussion, here are Antonio's Lahiri planetary positions: Subtract 53 minutes (that is, subtract a whole degree and add 7 minutes) to get the Fagan-Bradley positions. Ascendant: 3 59 AQ Mercury: 9 39 AQ Sun: 9 57 AQ Uranus: 0 01 Leo Venus: 7 17 Taurus (These are the positions I'm discussing below.) I had to smile when I saw your horoscope because from what you said about yourself it's a perfect example of how the Tropical books mix theory with fact. Let's start with Tropical Pisces: >For example, Pisceans are supposed to be compassionate, responsive to >other people's needs, And why would Pisces be said to be compassionate? It must be because Venus is exalted in Pisces! But compassion in itself doesn't belong to any sign--it belongs to Venus. Recently I did a small study of the horoscopes of nurses, who above all, must feel compassion for their patients. Venus was the most prominent planet in their charts. In your chart Venus isn't prominent. It's not angular and doesn't aspect either the Sun or the Moon. You're not a Venus type person. However, Venus is exalted in Pisces in the third house. (Equal houses with the cusp at the center of the house) According to Jyotish (and I really haven't checked out most of the Jyotish interpretations), this would refer to younger sisters or some kind of talent using your hands--because the third is Gemini's house, which is supposed to rule the hands and arms. This Venus wouldn't describe your psychology, however. Unless you might feel protective of younger sisters in some way. (This is only one of many possible interpretations.) >prone to drinking or drugs, etc, and none of >this applies to me. Tropoical books say this because supposedly Neptune rules Pisces. But drinking and drugs have existed for thousands of years. Why Neptune instead of Jupiter? Actually I've found Jupiter much more related to drinking and drugs. So this is another example of *theory* where no one has checked out actual horoscopes. Bottom line: These traits you mentioned don't belong to Pisces. They belong to Jupiter and Venus. The books are wrong. Aquarians are supposed to be into science or >computers, Yes!! Why? Because Saturn is the planet of science (according to the Gauquelin findings) and is the old ruler of Aquarius. Uranus is related to electricity and computers and is the new ruler of Aquarius. And your chart?? Sidereal Aquarius rising with Mercury and the Sun in Aquarius opposed by Uranus. The perfect theoretical picture for someone with Aquarius and Uranus dominating the chart. Only in this case, I expect that checking out actual horoscopes would verify the association of Aquarius and Mercury-Uranus with science and computers. >very independent minded, like to have their own ideas >instead of following other people's ideas, This would be Uranus opposing your Sun and Mercury. (Note that with the Lahiri ayanamsa Uranus is in Leo, the opposite sign from Sun-Mercury in AQ rather than in the preceding sign of Capricorn. With the K ayanamsa Uranus would be even further into Leo.) I also have Uranus opposing Mercury and I fell in love with computers and what they could do practically from the moment they were invented. I'm also an independent non-conformist. >somewhat cold emotionally, etc, and all this applies to me. Emotional warmth comes from Venus, and as I pointed out above, Venus isn't important in your psychology. Also, why should a sign associated with Saturn and Uranus be emotionally warm?? Now let's look at Aquarius in relation to the triplicities and polarity as well as cardinal-fixed-mutable. These meanings won't be especially clear without my articles. If you like, I can send them to you as attachments in Word or whatever format you like. (e-mail eastwest) POLARITY: Aquarius is masculine, that is inclined to autonomy, getting the answers in life mostly from within rather than always consulting other people and requently asking for advice. (Venus and the Moon consult-feminine; The Sun finds the answers within-masculine.) Aquarius belongs to the Gemini TRIAD: These signs are inclined to be intuitive, sensing vibrations that are under the surface rather than paying so much attention to what is actually said and done. For example if someone is smiling and acting pleasant but is angry underneath, the Gemini triad will pick up this undercurrent whereas some of the other signs will hear and see only what is on the surface. (The Gemini triad equates to the Tropical water signs.) FIXIDITY: Your sidereal chart is heavily loaded with fxed signs, and these signs are angular: Asc, Sun, Mercury in AQ; Moon in TA; Uranus, Rahu, Pluto in LEO. Therefore, if the cardinal-fixed-mutable theory holds, you should be pretty determined in where you want to go, and once an idea is set in your head, it would be difficult to dislodge. You might stay in the same job or profession for many, many years rather than frequently making changes. 10th lord is Mars in Gemini in a Rahu (north node) mansion. This would point to Mercury-Rahu-Aquarius (trines from that sign) as the work in life. However, you have the ability to communicate and exchange ideas because the sidereal Taurus triad has a lot to do with thinking and communication. Jupiter and Saturn are in Capricorn and the Moon is in Taurus. These are mental signs--thinkers. Capricorn can be related to math, computer programming or statistics. Capricorn has more to do with physical science whereas Aquarius can get into the esoteric sciences like astrology, and also computers and the air-space industry. Especially the mansion where your Asc, Mercury and Sun are: Rahu's mansion (mansion of the moon's north node) Antonio, you have a very masculine chart in the sidereal zodiac. I don't expect that women would play a prominent role in your life. You are always going to march to your own drummer. There are more details on this in the navamsa chart. If you want to list even more traits of Tropical Pisces that aren't you, and more traits of Tropical Aquarius that are you, it's revealing to ask where these traits came from as far as planetary symbolism goes. Mostly though, we see that the Tropical books were written from the perspective of theory rather than fact. Blessings, Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 --- Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: Tropoical books say this because supposedly Neptune rules Pisces. But drinking and drugs have existed for thousands of years. Why Neptune instead of Jupiter? Actually I've found Jupiter much more related to drinking and drugs. So this is another example of *theory* where no one has checked out actual horoscopes. ***Which character in mythology would be most related to drinking and drugs? Would it be Dionysus? Elisabeth ____________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals..ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 --- elisabeth <zqh_elisabeth wrote: --- Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: Tropoical books say this because supposedly Neptune rules Pisces. But drinking and drugs have existed for thousands of years. Why Neptune instead of Jupiter? Actually I've found Jupiter much more related to drinking and drugs. So this is another example of *theory* where no one has checked out actual horoscopes. ***Which character in mythology would be most related to drinking and drugs? Would it be Dionysus? Elisabeth >>>The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if Jupiter is partly Dionysian. Elisabeth ____________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals..ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Hi Therese, Thanks for the long posting!! I am putting my answers in between yours. This will make this posting huge. My apologies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > (Belated apologies for my writing program not having the ability to put the > accent mark over the'o' in your name.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No apologies needed, and no need to bother about that!! But if you want to know how I do it, in a PC with Microsoft Windows I just press the key " Alt Gr " at the right side of the space bar, simultaneously with the " o " key. In a similar fashion I can get á, é, í, ú, etc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > For anyone who is following this discussion, here are Antonio's Lahiri > planetary positions: Subtract 53 minutes (that is, subtract a whole degree > and add 7 minutes) to get the Fagan-Bradley positions. > > Ascendant: 3 59 AQ > Mercury: 9 39 AQ > Sun: 9 57 AQ > Uranus: 0 01 Leo > Venus: 7 17 Taurus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Actually the Moon is in Taurus 7º 17' and Venus in Pisces 24º 16'. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I had to smile when I saw your horoscope because from what you said about > yourself it's a perfect example of how the Tropical books mix theory with > fact. Let's start with Tropical Pisces: > > >For example, Pisceans are supposed to be compassionate, responsive to > >other people's needs, > > And why would Pisces be said to be compassionate? It must be because Venus > is exalted in Pisces! But compassion in itself doesn't belong to any > sign--it belongs to Venus. Recently I did a small study of the horoscopes > of nurses, who above all, must feel compassion for their patients. Venus > was the most prominent planet in their charts. In your chart Venus isn't > prominent. It's not angular and doesn't aspect either the Sun or the Moon. > You're not a Venus type person. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well spotted! I also had found myself some time ago that I am not a Venus person, not only because of the aspects, but because in the tropical zodiac Venus is in Aries, and therefore in detriment. However in the sidereal zodiac, Venus is in Pisces, and therefore in exaltation. Should that not make it stronger? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > However, Venus is exalted in Pisces in the third house. (Equal houses with > the cusp at the center of the house) According to Jyotish (and I really > haven't checked out most of the Jyotish interpretations), this would refer > to younger sisters or some kind of talent using your hands--because the > third is Gemini's house, which is supposed to rule the hands and arms. This > Venus wouldn't describe your psychology, however. Unless you might feel > protective of younger sisters in some way. (This is only one of many > possible interpretations.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No, I am not protective of my sisters and am not talented with my hands. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >prone to drinking or drugs, etc, and none of > >this applies to me. > > Tropical books say this because supposedly Neptune rules Pisces. But > drinking and drugs have existed for thousands of years. Why Neptune instead > of Jupiter? Actually I've found Jupiter much more related to drinking and > drugs. So this is another example of *theory* where no one has checked out > actual horoscopes. > > Bottom line: These traits you mentioned don't belong to Pisces. They belong > to Jupiter and Venus. The books are wrong. > > Aquarians are supposed to be into science or > >computers, > > Yes!! Why? Because Saturn is the planet of science (according to the > Gauquelin findings) and is the old ruler of Aquarius. Uranus is related to > electricity and computers and is the new ruler of Aquarius. And your chart?? > > Sidereal Aquarius rising with Mercury and the Sun in Aquarius opposed by > Uranus. The perfect theoretical picture for someone with Aquarius and > Uranus dominating the chart. Only in this case, I expect that checking out > actual horoscopes would verify the association of Aquarius and > Mercury-Uranus with science and computers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That is why I am liking sidereal. In tropical both the Sun and Mercury are in Pisces, and then the computer theme does not come out so strong. Also I am an engineer, which I think has to do with Saturn, the old ruler of Aquarius. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >very independent minded, like to have their own ideas > >instead of following other people's ideas, > > This would be Uranus opposing your Sun and Mercury. (Note that with the > Lahiri ayanamsa Uranus is in Leo, the opposite sign from Sun- Mercury in AQ > rather than in the preceding sign of Capricorn. With the K ayanamsa Uranus > would be even further into Leo.) > > I also have Uranus opposing Mercury and I fell in love with computers and > what they could do practically from the moment they were invented. I'm also > an independent non-conformist. > > >somewhat cold emotionally, etc, and all this applies to me. > > Emotional warmth comes from Venus, and as I pointed out above, Venus isn't > important in your psychology. Also, why should a sign associated with > Saturn and Uranus be emotionally warm?? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As I said before (in another forum), I would kill to have a Libra ascendant! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Now let's look at Aquarius in relation to the triplicities and polarity as > well as cardinal-fixed-mutable. These meanings won't be especially clear > without my articles. If you like, I can send them to you as attachments in > Word or whatever format you like. (e-mail eastwest@s...) > > POLARITY: Aquarius is masculine, that is inclined to autonomy, getting the > answers in life mostly from within rather than always consulting other > people and frequently asking for advice. (Venus and the Moon > consult-feminine; The Sun finds the answers within-masculine.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That is a very interesting definition of masculinity and very original!! I don't think I have seen it before. You say below that I have a very masculine chart. Using your definition you are 100% on the spot, but using some other definitions I could say I have a very strong feminine side!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Aquarius belongs to the Gemini TRIAD: These signs are inclined to be > intuitive, sensing vibrations that are under the surface rather than paying > so much attention to what is actually said and done. For example if someone > is smiling and acting pleasant but is angry underneath, the Gemini triad > will pick up this undercurrent whereas some of the other signs will hear > and see only what is on the surface. (The Gemini triad equates to the > Tropical water signs.) > > FIXIDITY: Your sidereal chart is heavily loaded with fxed signs, and these > signs are angular: Asc, Sun, Mercury in AQ; Moon in TA; Uranus, Rahu, Pluto > in LEO. Therefore, if the cardinal-fixed-mutable theory holds, you should > be pretty determined in where you want to go, and once an idea is set in > your head, it would be difficult to dislodge. You might stay in the same > job or profession for many, many years rather than frequently making > changes. 10th lord is Mars in Gemini in a Rahu (north node) mansion. This > would point to Mercury-Rahu-Aquarius (trines from that sign) as the work in > life. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The number of planets in my chart in cardinal signs is about the same if I use the tropical or sidereal zodiac. However in the tropical zodiac the majority of the remaining planets is in mutable signs, while in the sidereal zodiac the majority is in fixed. In tropical speak, if you have many planets in mutable signs, you are adaptable and can change. That very much fits me. I reasoned that if I stayed five years on a job it was because of all the mutable planets, as I could adapt, however you say above that I stay in the same job a long time because of the planets in fixed signs. The conclusion is that both sidereal and tropical interpretations come to the same destination even if they take different routes!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > However, you have the ability to communicate and exchange ideas because the > sidereal Taurus triad has a lot to do with thinking and communication. > Jupiter and Saturn are in Capricorn and the Moon is in Taurus. These are > mental signs--thinkers. Capricorn can be related to math, computer > programming or statistics. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the tropical zodiac, I considered my ability to communicate and exchange ideas to originate from Mercury in the first house, that would give me a Geminian bent, but I agree that in the sidereal zodiac this ability comes out stronger. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Capricorn has more to do with physical science whereas Aquarius can get > into the esoteric sciences like astrology, and also computers and the > air-space industry. Especially the mansion where your Asc, Mercury and Sun > are: Rahu's mansion (mansion of the moon's north node) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am very sceptical, and that probably comes from Saturn (according to what I read in another forum), which is very strong (in Capricorn, the sign it rules, both in the tropical and sidereal zodiacs). Also I am very rational (Aquarius), and most of my life I saw Astrology as nothing but superstition. It's only 8 months since I " discovered " Astrology. In another forum someone said that discovery happened because transiting Uranus came into conjunction with my natal Mercury. The whole thing seems a bit contradictory. Aquarius is supposed to be related to Astrology but also with rationality, aren't they mutually exclusive? :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Antonio, you have a very masculine chart in the sidereal zodiac. I don't > expect that women would play a prominent role in your life. You are always > going to march to your own drummer. There are more details on this in the > navamsa chart. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You are 100% right, women do not play a prominent role in my life. But as I said above, I have a very strong feminine side (using a different definition of femininity from you). The way I see it, that is the reason why I don't need women in my life, because I am balanced, while those guys that are very masculine they need a woman to balance things out! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > If you want to list even more traits of Tropical Pisces that aren't you, > and more traits of Tropical Aquarius that are you, it's revealing to ask > where these traits came from as far as planetary symbolism goes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This posting is already big enough!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Mostly though, we see that the Tropical books were written from the > perspective of theory rather than fact. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Very interesting conclusion. I think you are saying what I said in another posting a few days ago in different words. If the tropical books in part give delineations based on theory rather than fact, that explains why Sun in tropical Aquarius describes me better than Sun in tropical Pisces. The good thing about this is that we do not have to discard all the tropical stuff, on the contrary we can use 80% of it!! And that is great because there are many more tropical books out there than sidereal. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Blessings, > Therese ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanks António Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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