Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Matthew and List Members, I'm going to briefly summarize a few ideas before we get totally bogged down in multiple charts and mathematic subtleties. Matthew, you said in one of your past posts that you hadn't been able to find constants among many quake charts. How is it possible to see constants if you study so many different charts all at once for each quake--ingress charts--the CapSolar, CanLunar, CanLunars, LibSolar, Q-1 Progressions, midpoints?? In contrast, I've relied on only ONE chart plus the quake chart. This ONE chart is the Krishnamurti ingress into the solar sign each month. Siderealists haven't looked at the non-cardinal ingresses, and they have probably not looked at the monthly Krishnamurti ingresses either. So I've used: *No lunar ingresses (The Moon has latitude, so what do you do about the sign ingress for various locales??) *No midpoints *No Progressions *No multiple charts *No combining bodily contacts to angles and zodiacal positions >--- You wrote: >[MQ] But, Therese, we don't know if this is only anecdotal or if it >is part of a pattern of *all* or even many ingress charts with >quake/event transits to them. (Referring to the Krishnamurti sign ingresses and quake charts.) Actually, it's a pattern in *all* the major quake charts I've set up in the last two weeks or so. This isn't quite anecdotal. To best show these angular tie-ins, I'll have to set up bi-wheels, which means going back to an old DOS program and re-entering data. When I've done this I'll try to post all the charts. Request: I would like to know if you, Matthew, or anyone knows of a good earthquake site where local times are listed along with the details of death, destruction, fires, etc. I've had problems getting organized data. One site will list the dates but no times. Another site will list casualties, but be fuzzy on the exact date. Another site will give all the times in UTC and my current astro program will only accept local times. ------------------------------- At 09:52 AM 2/2/04 -0000, you wrote: (Re: Izmit quake chart) >[MQ] This is yet another instance where we differ. I can't ignore the >Moon-Jupiter-Mercury-Neptune grand cross as part of the pattern. ([TH] Which, by the way, is a *major* angular configuration in the K and F-B Cancer ingress charts--except that Mars is in the place of the Moon...the quake Moon falls on angular ingress Mars...The difference between F-B and K is that quake Mars falls on the K ingress MC.) Now (getting back to Matthew's comment above), this confuses me because from all I've read sidereal astrologers only pay attentiion to major configurations involving the angles. And these planets don't closely tie in with the angles unless you bring in midpoints. >Jupiter-Neptune is too often around in quake charts. The MC ties the >T-square to the cross: MC = JU/UR = SA/NE, both direct midpoints. >Mars = ASC/MC. Yes, midpoints. >[MQ] You did not mention that the Moon at MC also is in partile trine >to Saturn, thus catching both ends of the Mars-Saturn opposition, as >does the Sun... I don't mention some of the aspects in the F-B charts because you have posted so many charts for each quake, and I've directed people to look at them in the Files section of the site. >[MQ] Then the problem lies in determining which of the several >angular hits is likely to be worse, more difficult, however you want >to phrase it... (Re: Q1 progressions.) And this is the problem exactly! If you use only one monthly ingress chart (as I've been using), it's an easy matter to check the ephemeris for the likely day when a catastrophic event is likely to occur. Then you manipulate the angles to get the approximate hour. I expect this could be worked out to a near exact science. If there's no angular stress in that one monthly chart, then there's no danger of a major destructive event that month. If you rely on progressions, you are going to have several choices in relation to time. Matthew, if you and other sideralists enjoy studying multiple charts for one event, more power to you. But there's no way that I (and I expect most others) will have the fortitude to try to integrate so many charts and come up with possible constants. For me it's major brain drain, and it certainly isn't acceptable research protocol. If simplicity won't do it, then I'm on to other studies. We should be comparing only one type of chart at this stage of the earthquake study. So far I've set up charts for 14 major quakes. I'll try to find a few more and then set up the bi-wheels. Matthew, if you or anyone else wants to post charts for any other quakes, I'll be glad to look at them. Sincerely, Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 [TH] I'm going to briefly summarize a few ideas before we get totally bogged down in multiple charts and mathematic subtleties. Matthew, you said in one of your past posts that you hadn't been able to find constants among many quake charts. How is it possible to see constants if you study so many different charts all at once for each quake-- ingress charts--the CapSolar, CanLunar, CanLunars, LibSolar, Q-1 Progressions, midpoints?? In contrast, I've relied on only ONE chart plus the quake chart. This ONE chart is the Krishnamurti ingress into the solar sign each month. Siderealists haven't looked at the non-cardinal ingresses, and they have probably not looked at the monthly Krishnamurti ingresses either. So I've used: [MQ] Therese, I can't NOT comment on your list, as I think your implications of " simplicity " are misleading/ ----------------- [TH] *No lunar ingresses (The Moon has latitude, so what do you do about the sign ingress for various locales??) ------------- [MQ] Therese, zodiacal longitude is a mathematical point on the ecliptic. It is determined by the intersection of two Great Circles: the ecliptic and a Great Circle perpendicular to it that also passes through the planet. Neither celestial nor terrestrial latitude have anything whatsoever to do with the equation. This argument against lunar ingresses has no basis in fact and is thus misleading to readers. Plain old lunation charts are measured in longitude as well, with no need to consider latitude. ------------- [TH] *No midpoints ----------- [MQ] I use midpoints in much of my work. I see no problem with pointing out that a planet or other point is half-way between two other planets or points, or is in hard aspect to that half-way point. Thousands of other astrologers routinely use midpoints. Use of the technique is certainly not " cheating " . --------- [TH] *No Progressions ----------- [MQ] In other words, you don't use one of the basic techniques that was used in determining and refining the SVP. And by implication, you discount its value. That doesn't wash with me at all. I routinely use Q1 progressions in natal and mundane work and have for years. --------------- [TH] *No multiple charts ------------ [MQ] Your implication here is that a major event is or should be indicated by one chart, period. I couldn't disagree more. No personal major event is ever indicated *only* by one simple chart or method; an individual's life or the mass event is not *simple*. Astrology gives us layers and layers -- from a natal chart or ingress to progressions (secondary or tertiary) to returns (both solar and lunar) to transits -- each layer gives us an indication, an understanding of another facet of a complex situation. I would not expect a major event effecting hundreds or thousands of people to be any different. --------------- [TH] *No combining bodily contacts to angles and zodiacal positions ----------- [MQ] Again, I would radically disagree with you here. Often a planet will have more than minimal celestial latitude, so it will, north of the equator, rise earlier and set later than its zodiacal longitude if it has north latitude; or rise later and set earlier if it has south latitude. Thus two planets several degrees apart in longitude could cross angles together. I certainly would not consider this an invalid contact. Nor would I consider a transiting planet rising/setting with an ingress or other radix planet any less valid than a zodiacal contact. Therese, you may not use any of these techniques yourself, but other astrologers do. I feel that your minimizing them presents a picture that they are less valuable or even bogus, which you may not mean, but it certainly seems that way. The same goes for your insistence that we need to replicate Bradley's rainfall, et al., studies, as if you are calling into question his methodology, or saying that his results are false. Since you favor the Krishnamurti ayanamsa, I can understand this. Bradley's Jupiter on CapLunar angles graph would show a full 30 degree shift if the SVP were wrong and Krishnamurti ayanamsa right. You also tout " research methods " that may or may not be applicable to astrological study. I, personally, really don't care whether my work is acceptable to a scientific community that is already biased against astrology in the first place. I'm interested in discussing the tools we astrologers have and how to use them. As I've said before, I've worked with the SVP solar and lunar ingress charts for well over a decade, with progressions, midpoints, warts and all. I've looked at earthquakes, freak weather, accidents, disasters, murders, and, for the most part, I've been satisfied with the SVP tools. As for earthquakes, I think it may well depend on whether you are looking for indicators of the geological phenomenon itself or for a disaster that effects a mass of people. I do know that the scientific community has specific requirements for what they consider in an earthquake prediction -- date, time, fault, epicenter, magnitude. >--- You wrote: >[MQ] But, Therese, we don't know if this is only anecdotal or if it >is part of a pattern of *all* or even many ingress charts with >quake/event transits to them. (Referring to the Krishnamurti sign ingresses and quake charts.) [TH] Actually, it's a pattern in *all* the major quake charts I've set up in the last two weeks or so. This isn't quite anecdotal. To best show these angular tie-ins, I'll have to set up bi-wheels, which means going back to an old DOS program and re-entering data. When I've done this I'll try to post all the charts. [MQ] Well, Therese, keep setting up the charts. If I recall correctly, when I looked at quake charts I had run somewhere around 100 with CapSolars and CapLunars, some that hit highly populated areas and some that didn't. I wish I still had the disk files, but that was two computers ago, I'm afraid. I must admit that I am intrigued by the Krishnamurti Solar ingress charts, particularly since I like to see the Moon involved for an important event. But I can't get around the statistical work that Bradley and Duncan did on the SVP. ------------------- [TH] Request: I would like to know if you, Matthew, or anyone knows of a good earthquake site where local times are listed along with the details of death, destruction, fires, etc. I've had problems getting organized data. One site will list the dates but no times. Another site will list casualties, but be fuzzy on the exact date. Another site will give all the times in UTC and my current astro program will only accept local times. ------------- [MQ] The best data is from the USGS websites. I use neic.usgs.gov/current_seismicity.html. Times are listed in UTC. There is a Word formatted document with dates, times, epicenter latitudes and longitudes (in degree.decimal notation), and fatalities that prints out to 3 1/2 pages of nicely tabled data and a couple of pages of bibliography. Other links on the USGS site will give " disaster " information in more detail. You might also want to look at www.earthwaves.org/hoteqpre.html for links on quake prediction. Sidereally yours, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 On 7 Feb 2004 at 2:59, mquellas wrote: > the monthly Krishnamurti ingresses Just what is the Krishnamurti ingresses?Bert W. Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer Location and Timing Astrology LTD www.ltastrology.com you may download my PGP Public key off the MIT Keyserver at http://pgp.mit.edu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.