proposal for alternate rulerships

March 22, 2004

Hello All,

I've been studying astrology since I was 16 (i'm 24 now) and using

sidereal method for about a year now. There is no question in my

mind that sidereal astrology is the more accurate system and it has

greatly revolutionized my practice in reading charts.

However, encountering sidereal methods wasn't the only quantam leap i

took in my chart readings. At this moment i'm developing what i

suppose amounts to a personal astrology which is radically different

from traditional methods on many counts. Primary among the

differences is a table of rulerships.

During a recent meditation retreat i intuited that a lot of the

traditional rulerships may be inaccurate. The system i've found

works thus:

Aries through Leo remains untouched.

Virgo is actually ruled by the earth (more on this in a minute) and

the rest are as follows

Libra - Jupiter

Scorpio - Saturn

Sagitarrius - Chiron

Capricorn - Uranus (quite a shocker, eh?)

Aquarius - Neptune

and Pisces - Pluto

I'll take a minute and explain some of the features of the signs and

planets which lead me to these conclusions because i would very much

like to hear comments from the group.

Jupiter and Libra have in common aspect concerning justice and

legality. For me Libra and the 7th refer to much more than matters of

relationships and marriage, but to anything which refers to an

individuals entrance into society. Jupiter does in fact rule

personal growth in this respect and so I say that Jupiter rules

society v Mars which rules the individual.

I believe that Saturn's karmic function is well understood but it

baffle's me that it'd be placed in capricorn. Saturn deals primarily

with the dissolution and redistribution of wealth and thus seems

properly opposed to venus and taurus which is concerned with the

gathering of such wealth. Issues of moral values and their

consequences also seem more akin to a venus/saturn polarity.

Chiron's a conterverial little body and initially i thought that it

ruled libra myself. However it is the aspect of chiron as Mentor

which leads me to place it opposed to mercury which is the Student.

Also, sagitarrians are often found among the medical profession and

chiron does deal with the healing arts. Not to mention the obvious

connection of the centaur.

Uranus ruling Capricorn is really my favorite among these as it took

me the longest to realize why the hell uranus would rule capricorn and

the 10th. I believe the traditional rulership of saturn indicates a

misunderstanding of capricorn. In short, capricorn is NOT

traditional. Capricorn is eccentric, unique and revoutionary. It

is the capricorn whose brilliance will bring a new product to market.

Caps are also rather high strung. But what does it for me is the

understanding of the 10th, which is societal recognition. I believe

it refers to society's recognition of ones UNIQUENESS. Afterall, most

famous people are not famous because they are conservative and

traditional. In fact, take a look at the mythical capricorn...what an

eccentric amalgam! nothing traditional about it. So, i think the

progressive uranus is well placed in polarity with the traditional

lunar influence.

Neptune as the planet of universal love and compassion seems well

placed as ruler of Aquarius. Neptunian personalities are also very

often successful in literature, which may help dispell any hesitence

in regarding neptune as an air planet. Yet, at the heart of the

matter is the fact that neptune is largely misunderstood. Its

function is to dissolve ego structures, and that means it is perfectly

placed in opposition to the Sun which builds ego structures. This

whole system of rulerships, for me at least makes a lot of pragmatic

sense in view of the oppositions created and this is one that i find

most obvious.

Finally pluto is the only one that would retain its elemental status

as a water planet. Yet i believe it was misplaced in scorpio and the

8th and much better in pisces/12. Issues of bondage, obsession and

unconscious reactions resound through the symbolism of pluto and are

recognized in the rulership of the 12th house of the subconscious and

institutions like prisons and mental wards. The symbol of pisces is

not just of the fish but of two BOUND fish. The whole system in my

opinion points to pluto's function as leading to the release of

unconcsious traits and matters of the subtle body. It is well placed

opposite virgo the sign of conscious cognition and the physical body.

So far as earth ruling virgo i see mutable earth in fields of dirt

which can be made to give life. So far as the earth's placement, it

makes sense that the 'earth sign' would be the nadir of the chart.

I would very much appreciate comments on this subect and will very

gladly respond to any questions. I fully expect to get laughed at

but please do try to be constructive as well.

Thanks all,

Be Well, Be Happy

March 22, 2004

At 06:02 PM 3/22/04 -0000, Sheeptribe wrote:

>I would very much appreciate comments on this subect and will very

>gladly respond to any questions. I fully expect to get laughed at

>but please do try to be constructive as well.

Sheeptribe,

No one should be laughed at for presenting new ideas, whether they turn out

to be right or wrong. It's common courtesy to listen to honestly presented

ideas. That said, I'll respond to some of your suggestions--not all of them

as I have too much work backed up (as usual).

>

>Hello All,

>

>I've been studying astrology since I was 16 (i'm 24 now) and using

>sidereal method for about a year now. There is no question in my

>mind that sidereal astrology is the more accurate system and it has

>greatly revolutionized my practice in reading charts.

That's nice to hear!

>Jupiter and Libra have in common aspect concerning justice and

>legality.

This is the true symbolism of the starry scales in the sky. Did you know

that in India the ruler of the lunar mansion in Libra which contains the

scales is Jupiter? You will find this particular mansion judgemental in its

dealings with other people. This mansion also promotes legal discord.

In the Krishnamurti Aquarius solar ingress prior to the public announcement

of Gay marriages in San Francsico, the Moon and Ketu (conjoined) were in

the degrees of two of Libra's main stars--the north and south scales. This

mansion runs from 20 degrees of sidereal Libra to 3 Scorpio 20. So there

you have a true Jupiter relationship to Libra! (In other words, is you

consider the lunar mansions, you won't have to change Libra's traditonal

ruler unless you want to.)

>I believe that Saturn's karmic function is well understood but it

>baffle's me that it'd be placed in capricorn. Saturn deals primarily

>with the dissolution and redistribution of wealth...

Yes, and I think that here you've made an incomplete transition from the

Tropical to the Sidereal zodiac. Sidereal Capricorn is quite the democrat,

believing in the even distribution of wealth and everything else as well.

Sidereal Cap doesn't like any sort of caste system, which Jupiter is very

comfortable with. Saturn is the great leveler.

....Issues of moral values and their

>consequences also seem more akin to a venus/saturn polarity.

This would be moralilty involving sex and relationships??--which then would

come under Libra-the sign of marriage as a social responibility.

>(...)

>Uranus ruling Capricorn is really my favorite among these as it took

>me the longest to realize why the hell uranus would rule capricorn and

>the 10th. I believe the traditional rulership of saturn indicates a

>misunderstanding of capricorn. In short, capricorn is NOT

>traditional. Capricorn is eccentric, unique and revoutionary.

I believe that here again you are bringing in Tropical sign symbolism. The

10th house (Capricorn's house) symolizes the role we play in the world. It

tends to represent the more traditional occupations. Since Uranus can't

conform to society (in general), it doesn't make a lot of sense to

associate Uranus with the 10th house. However, you'll find that people

with loaded 11th houses tend to cut their own way in life with little

regard for accepted social practices. You'll find the loners (many writers

and artists) here as well as entrepreneurs (such as Donald Trump).

>Neptune as the planet of universal love and compassion...

Not necessarily! Again, this is straight out of the Tropical textbooks.

Venus is the compassionate planet, not Neptune. Neptune is the explorer,

always looking to new horizons. This is why it is probably the air-space

industry planet, even though Neptune was a god of the ocean. But he was

always seeking to explore new horizons and grab new lands (waters) for

himself.

>Finally pluto is the only one that would retain its elemental status

>as a water planet. Yet i believe it was misplaced in scorpio and the

>8th and much better in pisces/12.

Sidereal astrology doesn't put Pluto with Scorpio--it tentatively places it

as co-ruler of Aries. Pluto is a loner, an individual--take a look at

people whose charts are loaded with sidereal Aries.

>The whole system in my

>opinion points to pluto's function as leading to the release of

>unconcsious traits and matters of the subtle body.

I can't comment on this as this kind of thinking is way too esoteric for me!

Perhaps Bettina or Elisabeth may want to comment on some of your thoughts?

I'm seeing confusion about the meaning of zodiacal signs on several web

sites lately. I'll have to take this week to get some sign articles on the

internet. More later... (Fagan et all tended to make some of the same

errors that the Tropical texts make--giving far too many specifics to the

signs that belong to the planets instead.)

Sincerely,

Therese

March 25, 2004

The traditional planetary rulerships of the signs is based on empirical

evidence. Vedic astrology's been around for thousands of years, and from

generations worth of observation astrologers saw how house rulers were

influenced by other planets in the natal chart or by transiting planets or

how the rulers of houses functioned during their dasha periods. For

instance, if Mars ruled the 7th house and it were aspected by Saturn, likely

the person would have partnership difficulties. Or, if transiting Jupiter

trined the 10th ruler, something auspicious would occur having to do with

career or reputation.

You make a good point about Libra and Jupiter both relating to the law, but

Jupiter rules the law per se, while Libra has more to do with jusice,

evening out, karma. That's why Saturn is exalted in that sign. Saturn has

to do with dissolution, too. The 7th is the house of death in the Vedic

system, as it's opposite the first of the body, birth, inception.

Saturn is egalitarian, friendly, democratic, and those traits are often

found in Capricorns.

Good to have you on the board!

.... Bettina

sheeptribe1 [sheeptribe1]

Monday, March 22, 2004 10:58 AM