Guest guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 In a message dated 6/19/2004 12:16:31 PM Central Standard Time, cosmos_lakes writes: sidereal greetings, anybody out there interested in the western sidereal zodiac? would love to chat. or this site solely a vedic one? Greetings, too. I've been on this list for about 3 years and i still have no idea what a vedic joyish (or whatever it's called) zodiac is. And frankly I don't care. I thought it was a group dedicated to following the precepts of Cyril Fagan and Garth Allen (aka Donald Bradley). /// chris wing in Austin TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 At 04:55 AM 6/19/04 -0000, cosmos_lakes wrote: >sidereal greetings, > >anybody out there interested in the western sidereal zodiac? > >would love to chat. or this site solely a vedic one? Hi Cosmos_Lakes, Did you take the time to read the introduction to this site? The list began strictly as a site to popularize the Fagan-Bradley zodiac and the western sidereal astrological system. No, it's not a Vedic site, although some of us on this list use either the Lahiri or Krishnamurti ayanamsa (both very close to Fagan). Although we discuss Vedic (Jyotish) techniques, all the illustrated charts in the Files section are circular western-style charts. There has been a lot of on-going discussion about the validity of the different ayanamsas. If you have time, look over some past messages. If you click on 'messages,' and then 'expand messages,' all the messages for that page will be opened together so you don't have to click on each one. You can keep going back (previous) to read pages of earlier messages. Yes, there are several people on this list who would love to discuss the western sidereal zodiac!! Ask away or start a discussion. Welcome to the sidereal list! Therese P.S. There was a delay in your message appearing on the list. You are now on unmoderated status, and your messages will appear immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 Nope there are a few of us that are Western Sierealists. And use the Fagan/Allen Ayanamsa. By the way, here us a test that you might want to try. take an event and then do Calsolar ingress and its progression (Neo-SNQ) for the date and time of the event. Do this for some atural or man made disaster. do it with both the Fagan/Allen and the other ayanamsas. See which one puts the proper planets on the angles en mundo for the event. I will bet that it is the Fagan/Allen. the reason is that unlike natal astrology, it is far more important in mundane work that the ingress mark the return of the light to an exact point in the sky. The amount that the determination is off from that exact point will be the amount that the fadutal point needs to be corrected. That is basicly how Allan (Don Bradely) corrected the earlyer determination made by Fagan. Sidereally yours, Bert Bert W. Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer Location and Timing Astrology ltastrology " Where you should be and when you should be there. " - " cosmos_lakes " <cosmos_lakes Friday, June 18, 2004 9:55 PM fagan/allen zodiac > sidereal greetings, > > anybody out there interested in the western sidereal zodiac? > > would love to chat. or this site solely a vedic one? > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 In a message dated 6/19/2004 5:01:34 PM Central Standard Time, eastwest writes: The commonly used Jyotish zodiac is the same as the Fagan-Bradley zodiac except that the planets are one degree ahead of Fagan's thanks, now i know! /// wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 At 04:08 PM 6/19/04 EDT, Chris Wing wrote: >I've been on this list for about 3 years and i still have no >idea what a vedic joyish (or whatever it's called) zodiac is. Chris!! The commonly used Jyotish zodiac is the same as the Fagan-Bradley zodiac except that the planets are one degree ahead of Fagan's. That is, the solar ingress into a sign will hit one day earlier for Lahiri (or Krishnamurti) than for Fagan. I think maybe cosmic_lakes meant to ask about the western sidereal system rather than the zodiac per se? There are two main sidereal astrological SYSTEMS: Western sidereal (Fagan) and Jyotish (Indian). There are two basic ZODIACS: Tropical and Sidereal. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Hello everyone, - " Bert Fannin " <bwfannin Saturday, June 19, 2004 2:42 PM Re: fagan/allen zodiac > Nope there are a few of us that are Western Sierealists. And use the > Fagan/Allen Ayanamsa. > > By the way, here us a test that you might want to try. take an event and > then do Calsolar ingress and its progression (Neo-SNQ) for the date and time > of the event. Do this for some atural or man made disaster. do it with both > the Fagan/Allen and the other ayanamsas. See which one puts the proper > planets on the angles en mundo for the event. Bert, would you mind to explain the techniques (Calsolar ingress and it progression, neo-snq)? I don't understand what it means. Thank you, François Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Monumental point Therese! This makes it plain that the position of the Moon in those ingresses wil be about 13 degrees earlier than the position of the Moon when using Fagan-Bradley and of course the angles will most likely be different as well. It is easy to see that progressing the angles of any lunar return with the difference of right ascension of the Moon as argument using the different aynamsas would thus generate quite distinct charts. It is these charts, progressed lunars, not solars, that easily and repeatedly reveal the correctness of the Bradley SVP. Bob , Therese Hamilton <eastwest@s...> wrote: > At 04:08 PM 6/19/04 EDT, Chris Wing wrote: > >(...) > > Chris!! > > (...) That is, the solar > ingress into a sign will hit one day earlier for Lahiri (or Krishnamurti) > than for Fagan. > (...) > Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Francois, This may be of some help to you. http://makeashorterlink.com/?O50C25B98 Bob , " Francois Carriere " <francois.carriere@l...> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > - > " Bert Fannin " <bwfannin@e...> > > Saturday, June 19, 2004 2:42 PM > Re: fagan/allen zodiac > > > > Nope there are a few of us that are Western Sierealists. And use the > > Fagan/Allen Ayanamsa. > > > > By the way, here us a test that you might want to try. take an event > and > > then do Calsolar ingress and its progression (Neo-SNQ) for the date and > time > > of the event. Do this for some atural or man made disaster. do it with > both > > the Fagan/Allen and the other ayanamsas. See which one puts the proper > > planets on the angles en mundo for the event. > > Bert, would you mind to explain the techniques (Calsolar ingress and it > progression, neo-snq)? I don't understand what it means. > > Thank you, > François Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 At 11:33 PM 6/19/04 -0000, Bob wrote: >Monumental point Therese! > >This makes it plain that the position of the Moon in those ingresses >wil be about 13 degrees earlier than the position of the Moon when >using Fagan-Bradley and of course the angles will most likely be >different as well. Bob, This is true, but although I've been asking for some time, no one on this list has yet posted a series of progressed lunar returns (say, for mega earthquakes) that are convincing. I'm talking about zodiacal planetary positions. >It is easy to see that progressing the angles of any lunar return >with the difference of right ascension of the Moon as argument using >the different aynamsas would thus generate quite distinct charts. >It is these charts, progressed lunars, not solars, that easily and >repeatedly reveal the correctness of the Bradley SVP. Then please place your bets. Post, say, at least five of these charts for similar events using the F-B and K ayanamsas and show us that this technique works. So far, I've only seen singleton examples, and since minor aspects were used, they don't convince me. I do believe however, that the solar ingress has greater symbolic importance than the lunar ingress. But I'm quite happy to look at a series of similar lunars. Major aspects only. The real question is: Can you use these lunar charts to **predict**?? If not, they have no real value (in my opinion). I also leave open the possibility that the sun and moon march to different zodiacs, that is different ayanamsas. No one has yet shown the Fagan-Bradley solar ingress to be superior to the Krishnamurti solar ingress in any consistant way. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Bob, This short link doesnt work, please give the full adress. Mihai bobnicewander wrote: > Francois, > > This may be of some help to you. > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?O50C25B98 > > Bob > > , " Francois Carriere " > <francois.carriere@l...> wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > > - > > " Bert Fannin " <bwfannin@e...> > > > > Saturday, June 19, 2004 2:42 PM > > Re: fagan/allen zodiac > > > > > > > Nope there are a few of us that are Western Sierealists. And use > the > > > Fagan/Allen Ayanamsa. > > > > > > By the way, here us a test that you might want to try. take > an event > > and > > > then do Calsolar ingress and its progression (Neo-SNQ) for the > date and > > time > > > of the event. Do this for some atural or man made disaster. do it > with > > both > > > the Fagan/Allen and the other ayanamsas. See which one puts the > proper > > > planets on the angles en mundo for the event. > > > > Bert, would you mind to explain the techniques (Calsolar ingress > and it > > progression, neo-snq)? I don't understand what it means. > > > > Thank you, > > François > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Mihai, I tried the link and it did not work so I made another one. The link is to a gif in the files sction of the Group. http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1B132C98 The full address is: http://f2.grp.fs.com/v1/4CfVQMOhpfsVTAD- RWczI4RAB1Sx_OLC6dpFwKOvLr-g3BN-937h6nVL6lyRHb9zlvc04mzFcoMAx- 1J_hWsDldlHQXc/P%26QSID.gif Bob , Mihai RUSU <mihai68ro@n...> wrote: > Bob, > > This short link doesnt work, please give the full adress. > > Mihai > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 What would you like to chat about cosmo? If its about " western " sidereal astrology I'm always interested..... cosmos_lakes <cosmos_lakes wrote: sidereal greetings, anybody out there interested in the western sidereal zodiac? would love to chat. or this site solely a vedic one? " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 ++++++++Correction to Text++++++++ - " Bert Fannin " <bwfannin Saturday, June 19, 2004 11:42 AM Re: [sidereal Astrology] Fagan Allen zodiac > Nope there are a few of us that are Western Siderealists. In addition, use the > Fagan/Allen Ayanamsa. > > By the way, here is a test that you might want to try. Take an event and > then do Capsolar Ingress and its progression (Neo-SNQ) for the date and time > of the event. Do this for some Natural or Man made disaster. Do it with both > the Fagan/Allen and the other Ayanamsa. See which Ayanamsa puts the proper > planets on the angles of the progressions, en mundo for the event. I will bet that it is the > Fagan/Allen. The reason is that unlike natal astrology, it is far more > important in mundane work that the ingress mark the return of the light to > an exact point in the sky. The amount that the determination is off from > that exact point will be the amount that the marking point needs to be > corrected. That is how Allan (Don Bradley) corrected the earlier > determination made by Fagan. > > Sidereally yours, > Bert > > Bert W. Fannin > Western Sidereal Astrologer > Location and Timing Astrology > ltastrology > " Where you should be and when you should be there. " > > > > - > " cosmos_lakes " <cosmos_lakes > > Friday, June 18, 2004 9:55 PM > fagan/allen zodiac > > > > sidereal greetings, > > > > anybody out there interested in the western sidereal zodiac? > > > > would love to chat. or this site solely a vedic one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > > > Post message: > > Subscribe: - > > Un: - > > List owner: -owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > / > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 > Bert, would you mind to explain the techniques (Calsolar ingress and it > progression, neo-snq)? I don't understand what it means. > > Thank you, > Franoi The text has so many typos I am beside my self! :-) The Capsolar Ingress is the moment when the Sun enters the zero degree of Capricorn. It is the master mundane chart for the year. Again, I miswrote. The Neo-SNQ refers to the progression of a natal chart. The SQ method of progression moves the angles of the Ingress on the Right Ascension of the Apparent Sun (RAAS). Here is the way to do this: 1. RAMC Ingress - RAAS Ingress ---------------- LHAS +RAAS TX Sun at time event ---------------------------- RAMC SQ progression for event. Then check the speculum list for the planets crossing the angles of the ingress. The amount of time off the angle +/- is the amount of correction in time to the ingress. This in term will change the value of the light and hence the marking point for zodiac. Many examples must be tested of course and statistically evaluated. Garth Allen was very good at this sort of thing. Sidereally, Bert Bert W. Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer Location and Timing Astrology ltastrology " Where you should be and when you should be there. " --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.707 / Virus Database: 463 - Release 6/15/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 This sems to be a broken link. - " bobnicewander " <jan61108 Saturday, June 19, 2004 4:42 PM Re: fagan/allen zodiac Francois, This may be of some help to you. http://makeashorterlink.com/?O50C25B98 Bob , " Francois Carriere " <francois.carriere@l...> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > - > " Bert Fannin " <bwfannin@e...> > > Saturday, June 19, 2004 2:42 PM > Re: fagan/allen zodiac > > > > Nope there are a few of us that are Western Sierealists. And use the > > Fagan/Allen Ayanamsa. > > > > By the way, here us a test that you might want to try. take an event > and > > then do Calsolar ingress and its progression (Neo-SNQ) for the date and > time > > of the event. Do this for some atural or man made disaster. do it with > both > > the Fagan/Allen and the other ayanamsas. See which one puts the proper > > planets on the angles en mundo for the event. > > Bert, would you mind to explain the techniques (Calsolar ingress and it > progression, neo-snq)? I don't understand what it means. > > Thank you, > François " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Seems as though something is rotten in the state of Denmark or perhaps here. I tried the first short link after I posted it and it worked. Itried the second one 3 times right after posting it and it worked every time. Hers is another short link. http://tinyurl.com/yvffp Bob Nicewander , " bobnicewander " <jan61108> wrote: > Mihai, > > I tried the link and it did not work so I made another one. The link > is to a gif in the files sction of the Group. > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1B132C98 > > The full address is: > > http://f2.grp.fs.com/v1/4CfVQMOhpfsVTAD- > RWczI4RAB1Sx_OLC6dpFwKOvLr-g3BN-937h6nVL6lyRHb9zlvc04mzFcoMAx- > 1J_hWsDldlHQXc/P%26QSID.gif > > Bob > > , Mihai RUSU > <mihai68ro@n...> wrote: > > Bob, > > > > This short link doesnt work, please give the full adress. > > > > Mihai > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.