Venus, planet of peace?

[Guest guest]

Dark Star wrote:

> ...I don't know how return charts can be read if Venus means peace

> and also by the way, not peace.

 

Hi Dark,

I find Venus can manifest as peace, and also as not peace. The fair

planet does have a tendency towards inertia, in that it seeks to gather

into itself a sense of wholeness or unity, and yearns to bring the

responsiveness it feels to its surroundings into an objective state of

inactivity.

 

What Venus is really hungering for is the culmination of an experience.

Desserts are ruled by Venus, so I suppose we could call it the

sweetness of sugar as final fulfillment. Or perhaps, relaxation as the

antidote to agitated activity: in short, a kind of peace.

 

Venus is also an evaluative function. It selects what our attention

will focus on, emphasizes preferences, and makes judgements in seeking

the center of its own inner life. It does this not cognitively, but as

a non-conceptual, felt significance. This mode of attraction binds us

through feelings to certain kinds of experiences that are revealed in

various ideal forms. It could manifest as an aesthetic perception, or

the way we transform our ideals into the deep mystery of the heart.

Venus's gifts are love, beauty, harmony, and ethics, and through the

process of refining these values, we become more attuned as individuals

and our capacity for relationship increases.

 

So far, this sounds quite peaceful! But Venus also has its negative

expressions. It can bind us to values that are at odds with our own

values or those of others, even to the point of ruthlessness.

Mishandled Venusian energy can also bring on self-centered feeling

states such as laziness, lavishness, or lewdness: in short, a kind of

not peace.

 

We may or may not be successful in achieving peace through Venus, but

there is no contradiction in saying it can manifest one way or the

other. It is more a question of whether an ideal is being fulfilled or

not. Through Venus contacts, some ideal is always seeking to deepen

itself, though we so often fall short or undermine our own efforts.

When we're successful, the relatedness of self and other becomes a

seamless rapport; but when the ideal is lost, it can be accompanied by

bitterness or a deadening of the senses.

 

Since this discussion of Venus included its relationship to Mars, I will

touch briefly on that. Mars is of course a natural complement to Venus.

It denotes the beginning of any experience, the first impulse of the

being as the pure tendency to act. Whatever Mars undertakes, Venus

finishes. Whichever direction Mars embarks upon, Venus brings it to

rest. Venus provides the experience to be gained from the action Mars

takes.

 

They say Mars is the god of war, but when he is allowed to freely follow

his own impulses, he is content and at peace. Some also speak of Venus

as the goddess of peace, but when chaos reigns, she can become reactive

and be at war. So it is not enough to simply rely on generic keywords;

as serious astrologers, we should at least take enough care to try to

put them in a workable context.

 

As a final note, all that I've said here applies only to the planetary

functions, not to any of the zodiacal signs. Planetary definitions need

to be kept clearly distinct from the meanings of the signs, as Therese

has correctly stated. The planets and signs (regardless of which zodiac

is used) should *never* be confused with each other, even though it is

equally true that we will never be able to actually experience them

independently of each other in real life.

 

-Greg

[Guest guest]

Greg Kramer wrote:

 

>Dark Star wrote:

>

>

>>...I don't know how return charts can be read if Venus means peace

>>and also by the way, not peace.

>>

>>

>

>Hi Dark,

>I find Venus can manifest as peace, and also as not peace. The fair

>planet does have a tendency towards inertia, in that it seeks to gather

>into itself a sense of wholeness or unity, and yearns to bring the

>responsiveness it feels to its surroundings into an objective state of

>inactivity.

>

>

>

<Text Snipped>

------

 

>Greg "

> Interestingly, Venus has shown up not only in charts for Peace but for War as

well. She seems to act as the indicator of " State " or status of the situation.

So long as she is not afflected, the status seems to be one of equilibrum. When

afflected that equiliberumm is disturbed.

>

>

 

Bert Fannin

[Guest guest]

Bert Fannin wrote

 

> Interestingly, Venus has shown up not only in charts for Peace

> but for War as well. She seems to act as the indicator of " State " or

> status of the situation. So long as she is not afflected, the status

> seems to be one of equilibrum. When afflected that equiliberumm is

> disturbed.

 

Hi Bert,

 

I agree with this statement i.e. if left unafflicted Venus represents

equilibrium.

 

A good example of Venus not in this state (equilibrium), is when Mars

gets involved with Venus by aspect or occupies a Venus ruled sign

(especially Taurus).

 

Mars was in Taurus for the attack on Fort Sumter, beginning the civil

war, and also present for the Hiroshima Bomb (in both cases a

Mars/Uranus conjunction was also in effect.) At Hiroshima, Mars and

Venus were also tied together by close parallel (17').

 

 

 

Best,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Steven Stuckey wrote:

>

>

 

> > Bert wrote: Interestingly, Venus has shown up not only in charts

for Peace but for War as well. She seems to act as the indicator of

" State " or status of the situation. So long as she is not afflected,

the status seems to be one of equilibrum. When afflected that

equiliberumm is disturbed.

 

> Hi Bert,

> I agree with this statement i.e. if left unafflicted Venus

represents equilibrium. A good example of Venus not in this state

(equilibrium), is when Mars gets involved with Venus by aspect or

occupies a Venus ruled sign (especially Taurus).

 

> Mars was in Taurus for the attack on Fort Sumter, beginning the

civil war, and also present for the Hiroshima Bomb (in both cases a

Mars/Uranus conjunction was also in effect.) At Hiroshima, Mars and

Venus were also tied together by close parallel (17').

 

 

Hi Steve,

Cool. This reminds me that Adolph Hitler had an exact natal

Mars-Venus conjunction with Venus retrograde (in Tropical Taurus:

Venus in rulership and Mars in detriment; in Sidereal Aries: Mars in

rulership and Venus in detriment!).

 

-Greg

[Guest guest]

> This reminds me that Adolph Hitler had an exact natal

> Mars-Venus conjunction with Venus retrograde (in Tropical Taurus:

> Venus in rulership and Mars in detriment; in Sidereal Aries: Mars in

> rulership and Venus in detriment!).

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Hitler's Mars-Venus conjunction is

also square Saturn (in detriment in Sidereal Cancer).

 

-Greg

[Guest guest]

mr_greg_kramer wrote:

 

>

> > This reminds me that Adolph Hitler had an exact natal

> > Mars-Venus conjunction with Venus retrograde (in Tropical Taurus:

> > Venus in rulership and Mars in detriment; in Sidereal Aries: Mars in

>

> > rulership and Venus in detriment!).

>

> Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Hitler's Mars-Venus conjunction is

> also square Saturn (in detriment in Sidereal Cancer).

>

> -Greg

>

 

Hi Greg,

 

Very good points!

 

Another dimension to this is the navamasa or 9th harmonic placements.

With Lahiri/Krishnamurthi both are appearing in Scorpio in the ascendant

while Fagan shows Mars in Libra and Venus in Scorpio (a mutual reception

or parivartana yoga).

 

Best

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Steven wrote:

> Another dimension to this [Hitler's chart] is the navamasa or 9th

harmonic placements. With Lahiri/Krishnamurthi both are appearing in

Scorpio in the ascendant while Fagan shows Mars in Libra and Venus in

Scorpio (a mutual reception or parivartana yoga).

 

Hi Steven

Oh boy, I'm on thin ice now! Thank you for offering this additional

dimension. Okay, so the navamsa is a varga, right? I think I

understand it to be related to the 7th house idea. The 9th harmonic

is a division of 30 degrees. Then would you count them for each

planet and project them from the cardinal signs... does that sound

right? That's about the extent of my expertise on navamsas! Does

Solar Fire run these suckers?

 

The way I'm seeing his natal chart, his Mercury is closely conjunct

the Descendant (a mouthpiece for Germany), with an exalted Sun and his

Mars-Venus conjunction all in the 7th house. With the Mars-Venus

square to Saturn in the 10th (in detriment showing an inevitable fall

from grace), all are angular. So his powerful and insidious impact on

the world is clear to me from that.

 

So how is the navamsa related to this an as interpretation? If it's

doing more than confirming general information, what does it add that

is new?

 

Also, where does his exalted Sun appear by navamsa, and what is its

dasa, and how would you read it (if these questions are the right ones

for me to be asking)?

 

Gratefully,

Greg

 

P.S. For anyone interested:

 

Adolph Hitler

April 20, 1889

6:30 pm LMT

Branau, Austria

13E03, 48N15

 

Source: Astro-Data 3

Classification: A, from birth record

[Guest guest]

mr_greg_kramer wrote:

 

> Oh boy, I'm on thin ice now! Thank you for offering this additional

> dimension. Okay, so the navamsa is a varga, right? I think I

> understand it to be related to the 7th house idea. The 9th harmonic

> is a division of 30 degrees. Then would you count them for each

> planet and project them from the cardinal signs... does that sound

> right?

 

Hi Greg,

 

Yes, that sounds about right. 'Nava'=9 and 'amsa'=division. Thirty

degrees divided by nine, gives 9 equal segments of 3* 20'. If we count

from Aries, the first 3*20 " is the Aries navamsa and the second navamsa

(3*20' to 6*40') is Taurus etc..

 

There's different ways of looking at the navamsa. It is supposed to be a

commentary on the spouse and 7th house affairs from the Indian point of

view. It can also be looked at as strengthening or weakening a natal

planets power and status. If you have the exact degree of the navamsa

planet (solar fire and vedic software like Sri Jyoti Star will calculate

this) then you can also check for a relationship by aspect between natal

and navamsa.

It can also be looked at in it's entirety as a second natal chart. Cyril

Fagan used to look at not only the 9th harmonic, but the 81st as well

(the 9th of the 9th!!)

 

 

 

> That's about the extent of my expertise on navamsas! Does

> Solar Fire run these suckers?

 

Yes, solar fire will run the navamsa or 9th harmonic and any other

harmonic. Keep in mind though that many of the Hindu varga charts are

calculated differently.

The ascendant of the chart moves about 1* every four minutes of time and

therefore the navamsa ascendant changes about every thirteen minutes.

Knowing the time of birth therefore needs to be fairly accurate to get

the correct navamsa ascendant.

 

>

>

> The way I'm seeing his natal chart, his Mercury is closely conjunct

> the Descendant (a mouthpiece for Germany), with an exalted Sun and his

>

> Mars-Venus conjunction all in the 7th house. With the Mars-Venus

> square to Saturn in the 10th (in detriment showing an inevitable fall

> from grace), all are angular. So his powerful and insidious impact on

>

> the world is clear to me from that.

>

> So how is the navamsa related to this an as interpretation? If it's

> doing more than confirming general information, what does it add that

> is new?

 

Personally I don't use the navamsa or the varga charts that much, but

when I do, it's mainly to verify my findings in the natal.

For instance, the Mars/Venus in Aries in the 7th house of sex, already

indicates strong sexuality, and Saturn's aspect can add an element of

perversity or the attempt to control sexual impulses by abstinence.

That Mars occupies the sign of Venus (Fagan ayanamsa) in the 12th house

of 'pleasures of the bed 'and interchanges with Venus in Scorpio in

navamsa, can only add fuel to the fire that there were sexual excesses

or problems. I think it is fairly common knowledge that Hitler was

sexually abused by his father and he despised men who were sexually

manipulated by women---therefore his 'wife' was the fatherland.

 

Here's an example of something new: Hitlers main squeeze of course was

Eva Braun, who was kept very much in the background from public view.

She herself was very envious of Hitlers other girlfriends when they

first met and she is known to have attempted suicide as a result of her

infatuation with him. It was suspected or known that Hitler also had

syphilis. Venus ruling over the 7th house in the navamsa and occupying

Scorpio carries many of these ideas i.e secret affairs, jealous

girlfriends, and sexually transmitted disease. Venus is lord of the 12th

house in navamsa and carries trouble to the physical body via Scorpio

i.e STD's among other things.

Mars, as lord of natal 7th, and occupying navamsa 12th with Ketu,

suggests suicidal partners who may lead a life in obscurity.

 

The Mars/Venus in Aries aspected by Saturn also displays many of these

same characteristics of course, but the Venus in Scorpio in navamsa will

serve to enforce this idea.

The navamsa 7th house is Taurus and receives the aspect of it's lord

Venus, from Scorpio. This improves the 7th house a bit and indicates

attractive and charismatic partners.

 

There are many other examples that can be given and you already have

some good ones from Therese.

 

>

>

> Also, where does his exalted Sun appear by navamsa, and what is its

> dasa, and how would you read it (if these questions are the right ones

>

> for me to be asking)?

 

Dasa's as you probably know are only calculated from the natal or rasi

chart.

 

One way of looking at the Sun's period is to assess it's situation in

the natal and navamsa both. During the Sun's period from approx 18/20 to

24/26 years old (depending on the ayanamsa you use) Hitler was

essentially a vagabond, having been previously thrown out of school and

turned down at the art institute. He wandered around and essentially did

nothing but menial jobs. The Sun as 10th lord in the 8th in navamsa

gives a fairly accurate picture here.

His life took a dramatic change in the Moon dasa when he joined the army

and distinquished himself in combat. The Moon in the navamsa 10th with

Jupiter paints a picture of success in the career.

 

 

Best,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Steven Stuckey wrote:

> Hi Greg,

>

> Yes, that sounds about right....

 

Hi Steve,

Wow, thanks so much for the wealth of information. I didn't see this

note of your's before sending my last message, so that's why I didn't

reference anything you said there.

 

Lots of food for thought.

-Greg

[Guest guest]

Hello Steve ;-)

 

 

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:08:54 -0800, Steven Stuckey

<shastrakara wrote:

 

[...On 9th harmonic or navamsha...]

> It can also be looked at in it's entirety as a second natal chart. Cyril

> Fagan used to look at not only the 9th harmonic, but the 81st as well

> (the 9th of the 9th!!)

 

I guess it is Ron Grimes that stated that western siderealist

astrologers picked up techniques from jyotish (that is what I

understood, then). But, anyway, I also understand that both western

and eastern astrology owe to the each other...

 

I would like to know to what extent Fagan use the harmonics? And is it

from an John Addey point of view or from a Jyotish point of view?

 

By the way, do you use harmonics with Fagan's SVP? I believe so...

 

--

With my best regards - François

[Guest guest]

Jyestha wrote:

 

> Hello Steve ;-)

>

>

> [...On 9th harmonic or navamsha...]

> > It can also be looked at in it's entirety as a second natal chart.

> Cyril

> > Fagan used to look at not only the 9th harmonic, but the 81st as

> well

> > (the 9th of the 9th!!)

 

Hi Francois,

 

I ran the above two sentences together, but did not intend to link their

content.

Fagan and early siderealists used the navamsa only as an " aspect

vernier " (Fagan's words from " The Primer of Sidereal Astrology " ). To

quote Fagan here for those who don't have this book: " It must not be

supposed as our Hindu brethren would have us believe that the novien

chart is a secondary geniture. It is nothing of the sort "

 

The idea of the navamsa was borrowed from Hindu astrology and

transformed via Donald Bradley's suggestion to the " novien " as Therese

has already pointed out.

Novien's are counted from Taurus instead of Aries and would be one exact

trine ahead of the navama. For instance, 10 Aries navamsa= 10 Leo

novien.

From Fagan: " It permits the user to measure micro-aspects that may not

be otherwise apparent, especially to the Moon " .

 

The Solar Return chart, known to Indian astrologers as the 'Varshaphal'

was picked up by the Hindus from the Arabs as part of Tajika astrology.

There is nothing that I know of in Varshaphal techniques that resembles

Fagan's original work reagarding progression rates or interpretive

methods.

I believe that the Lunar Return and all of it's corrolary charts are

also a part of Fagan's original work. At least this is never mentioned

in any Hindu classical text that I've ever seen.

 

The idea of emphasis on angularity of planets and the de-emphasis on

their use as 'rulers' of houses etc again part of an original body of

work. Relating natal angular planets to the cusps of return charts,

again part of Fagan's original work.

 

There was never any mention of the use of harmonic charts other than the

novien in the classes at the Sideral School in Los Angeles. We were

aware of harmonics from tropical techniques, but this was in no way

related to anyone having knowledge at that time of the 'varga' charts.

 

Hindu astrology was too esoteric in the early days of siderealism for

anyone to know what it was all about (excluding of course Fagan and

Bradley--but I don't know how much they themselves knew of it). Outside

of Deluce's " Constellational Astrology " and an occasional lucky find of

one of B.V Raman's books on the shelves at the Bodhi Tree bookstore, no

one knew much. Raman's books were largley undecipherable due to the use

of square charts and unfamiliar sanskrit terms.

 

The Sidereal School in Los Angeles (I can't speak of elsewhere, but I'm

pretty sure that John Mazurik was not using Hindu techniques in his

classes in San Francisco), began a subtle shift towards Hindu techniques

sometime around the late '70's and early '80's. The 'heretics' largely

responsible for this were a core group of bhakti renegades (myself

included) from the Krishna temple ashram, where we all had lived at some

point in the early '70's.

These 'rebels' began interjecting Hindu concepts into the classes in LA.

Phylis Kneip who ran the class for many years, did not object to this as

she herself was a former student of Robert Deluce and had a smattering

of knowledge regarding Hindu techniques. By the time this was happening,

Fagan teachers and students who had formed an earlier group were moving

on with their lives and attending classes less often. People like Jim

Eshleman, Charles Keith, Gene Lockhart, Kay Cavendish, Janice Mackey,

Pete Stapleton and others. I can't speak for everyone here, since some

of these people I only saw once or twice when they dropped in to pay

Phyllis a visit. It seemed by the time that the sanskrit was a flowin'

(more in the early '80's), the old siderealists were a goin'.

 

 

More on this in the next post.......

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

To continue on a bit with the history of the Fagan Sidereal School in

Los Angeles and it's gradual 'decline' into the insidious depths of

Hindoo/Vedic astrology ...:>))

(for part one of this, see below)

 

I think Phyllis began the classes sometime around the late

'60's--teaching strictly Fagan sidereal techniques. The classes were

held in the house next door to her own house in the beginning and

eventually moved into her converted garage next door. This was in

Hollywood, Ca, near the intersection of Fairfax and Fountain.

 

Our first Vedic teacher came at my request as a guest lecturer. His name

was Kenny Richards. I originally met Kenny when we both lived in the

Krishna ashram back in 1970. Kenny was one of the first bonafide Vedic

astrologers in the US., and had a big influence on me and many other of

our friends including Nalini Kantha (Tom Hopke, Keshava (Kerry

Lawrence), Drew Lawrence, and a number of others.

Kenny spent some years studying astrology in India and was a student of

Gandhi in

England. He eventually moved to Brazil with Kesava and both were

responsible for introducing Vedic astrology to Brazil.

Kenny's original class got everyone interested and some took his private

series of classes afterwards. Nalini came in after this and gave

classes, followed in quick succession by Rashmin, Anders Johansson from

Sweden (who had spent many years researching the Brigu leaves in

India.), Drew Lawrence, Keshava and others.

 

Chakrapani Ullal was eventually invited to teach a class there and he

became the

resident Vedic astrologer there for many years, teaching classes at

least once a month.

Our knowledge of Vedic took a great leap upward when Chakrapani started

teaching. He brought with him the wisdom of India and explained things

that were not available in books. We would all bring charts for him to

read and he never ceased to amaze us.

Some time later, Bill Levacy and Christina Collins joined the group

along with George Roman and many others that I don't remember. All this

was before ACVA was formed.

 

Phyllis suffered a stroke sometime in the early '90's, if I'm

remembering right. She recovered shortly but it seemed to slow her down

a bit. The classes still continued for some years after this, until

sometime in the late '90's when she moved in with her son and sold her

house. She passed away in 2000 I think, but I'm not certain on the year

here.

The classes moved to a yoga studio in Brentwood after this, where

myself, Chakrapani, Carol Allen and others continued to give classes.

Eventually we lost the yoga studio and the classes moved to our

individual homes. I continued to include Fagan techniques in the

classes, but Chakrapani and Carol taught strictly Vedic.

 

I moved out of LA last October, so the only two teachers 'holding down

the fort' are Chakrapani and Carol.

Ernst Wilhelm is also a teacher at the school and gives lectures

occasionally.

 

The school is now called the 'Vedic School of Astrology'......where

mention of the word 'quotidian' might easily be confused for a varga

division.

 

 

 

 

Best,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steven Stuckey wrote

 

> >

> >

> > [...On 9th harmonic or navamsha...]

> > > It can also be looked at in it's entirety as a second natal chart.

>

> > Cyril

> > > Fagan used to look at not only the 9th harmonic, but the 81st as

> > well

> > > (the 9th of the 9th!!)

>

> Hi Francois,

>

> I ran the above two sentences together, but did not intend to link

> their

> content.

> Fagan and early siderealists used the navamsa only as an " aspect

> vernier " (Fagan's words from " The Primer of Sidereal Astrology " ). To

> quote Fagan here for those who don't have this book: " It must not be

> supposed as our Hindu brethren would have us believe that the novien

> chart is a secondary geniture. It is nothing of the sort "

>

> The idea of the navamsa was borrowed from Hindu astrology and

> transformed via Donald Bradley's suggestion to the " novien " as Therese

>

> has already pointed out.

> Novien's are counted from Taurus instead of Aries and would be one

> exact

> trine ahead of the navama. For instance, 10 Aries navamsa= 10 Leo

> novien.

> >From Fagan: " It permits the user to measure micro-aspects that may

> not

> be otherwise apparent, especially to the Moon " .

>

> The Solar Return chart, known to Indian astrologers as the

> 'Varshaphal'

> was picked up by the Hindus from the Arabs as part of Tajika

> astrology.

> There is nothing that I know of in Varshaphal techniques that

> resembles

> Fagan's original work reagarding progression rates or interpretive

> methods.

> I believe that the Lunar Return and all of it's corrolary charts are

> also a part of Fagan's original work. At least this is never mentioned

>

> in any Hindu classical text that I've ever seen.

>

> The idea of emphasis on angularity of planets and the de-emphasis on

> their use as 'rulers' of houses etc again part of an original body of

> work. Relating natal angular planets to the cusps of return charts,

> again part of Fagan's original work.

>

> There was never any mention of the use of harmonic charts other than

> the

> novien in the classes at the Sideral School in Los Angeles. We were

> aware of harmonics from tropical techniques, but this was in no way

> related to anyone having knowledge at that time of the 'varga' charts.

>

> Hindu astrology was too esoteric in the early days of siderealism for

> anyone to know what it was all about (excluding of course Fagan and

> Bradley--but I don't know how much they themselves knew of it).

> Outside

> of Deluce's " Constellational Astrology " and an occasional lucky find

> of

> one of B.V Raman's books on the shelves at the Bodhi Tree bookstore,

> no

> one knew much. Raman's books were largley undecipherable due to the

> use

> of square charts and unfamiliar sanskrit terms.

>

> The Sidereal School in Los Angeles (I can't speak of elsewhere, but

> I'm

> pretty sure that John Mazurik was not using Hindu techniques in his

> classes in San Francisco), began a subtle shift towards Hindu

> techniques

> sometime around the late '70's and early '80's. The 'heretics' largely

>

> responsible for this were a core group of bhakti renegades (myself

> included) from the Krishna temple ashram, where we all had lived at

> some

> point in the early '70's.

> These 'rebels' began interjecting Hindu concepts into the classes in

> LA.

> Phylis Kneip who ran the class for many years, did not object to this

> as

> she herself was a former student of Robert Deluce and had a smattering

>

> of knowledge regarding Hindu techniques. By the time this was

> happening,

> Fagan teachers and students who had formed an earlier group were

> moving

> on with their lives and attending classes less often. People like Jim

> Eshleman, Charles Keith, Gene Lockhart, Kay Cavendish, Janice Mackey,

> Pete Stapleton and others. I can't speak for everyone here, since

> some

> of these people I only saw once or twice when they dropped in to pay

> Phyllis a visit. It seemed by the time that the sanskrit was a flowin'

>

> (more in the early '80's), the old siderealists were a goin'.

>

>

> More on this in the next post.......

>

>

>

> Steve

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bert,

 

I used the ingresses for the Great War.

An example for what you say here would be useful.

 

Dark*Star

_________________________________

 

Bert Fannin wrote:

 

> Greg Kramer wrote:

>

> >Dark Star wrote:

> >

> >

> >>...I don't know how return charts can be read if Venus means peace

> >>and also by the way, not peace.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >Hi Dark,

> >I find Venus can manifest as peace, and also as not peace. The fair

> >planet does have a tendency towards inertia, in that it seeks to gather

> >into itself a sense of wholeness or unity, and yearns to bring the

> >responsiveness it feels to its surroundings into an objective state of

> >inactivity.

> >

> >

> >

> <Text Snipped>

> ------

>

> >Greg "

> > Interestingly, Venus has shown up not only in charts for Peace but for

War as well. She seems to act as the indicator of " State " or status of the

situation. So long as she is not afflected, the status seems to be one of

equilibrum. When afflected that equiliberumm is disturbed.

> >

> >

>

> Bert Fannin

>

>

> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

[Guest guest]

I may have addressed this post to the wrong person, considering

the layered snippings...

 

Dark Star wrote:

 

> Bert,

>

> I used the ingresses for the Great War.

> An example for what you say here would be useful.

>

> Dark*Star

> _________________________________

>

> Bert Fannin wrote:

>

> > Greg Kramer wrote:

> >

> > >Dark Star wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >>...I don't know how return charts can be read if Venus means peace

> > >>and also by the way, not peace.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >Hi Dark,

> > >I find Venus can manifest as peace, and also as not peace. The fair

> > >planet does have a tendency towards inertia, in that it seeks to gather

> > >into itself a sense of wholeness or unity, and yearns to bring the

> > >responsiveness it feels to its surroundings into an objective state of

> > >inactivity.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > <Text Snipped>

> > ------

> >

> > >Greg "

> > > Interestingly, Venus has shown up not only in charts for Peace but

for War as well. She seems to act as the indicator of " State " or status of the

situation. So long as she is not afflected, the status seems to be one of

equilibrum. When afflected that equiliberumm is disturbed.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Bert Fannin

> >

> >

> > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

> >

> > Post message:

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> >

[Guest guest]

Dark Star wrote:

 

>Bert,

>

>I used the ingresses for the Great War.

>An example for what you say here would be useful.

>

>Dark*Star

>

>

 

------

Firebace did some work on that in his book War in the Sidereal.

Fagan too made mention of the fact that Venus plays in the beginning and

end of the " Great War " . I have a lot on my plate right now, but have

been meaning to revisit the Great War Sidereally.

 

Bert :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi Bert,

 

This interests me very much...

I don't have/never seen Firebrace's War book.

 

Dark*Star

_________________________________

 

Bert Fannin

wrote:------

 

> Firebace did some work on that in his book War in the Sidereal.

> Fagan too made mention of the fact that Venus plays in the beginning and

> end of the " Great War " .

[Guest guest]

Dark Star wrote:

 

>Hi Bert,

>

>This interests me very much...

>I don't have/never seen Firebrace's War book.

>

>Dark*Star

>_________________________________

>

>

>

>

Ah I can't seem to find it at the moment. I think the house grimmlin

must have it for now. I'll see if I can get it back from him/her, and

let you know who published it. It may be way out of print though.

Bert

 

>

>

>