Well, I was a student of Cyril Fagan in the 1950s & 60s

[Guest guest]

, " z911zaad " <z911zaad

wrote:

At 09:55 PM 2/2/06 -0000, z911zaad wrote:

>

>First, as to doing long term research, i can tell you, if you aren't

>paying attention to the major phases...,

 

z911zaad??? You must have a more user-friendly name? You've said a

mouthful here. First of all, what do you mean

by 'phases?' 'Dangerous situations with deadly consequences?' What

are you referring to?

 

>and especially your own [phases], can

>lead to some dangerous situations, with deadly consequences. I teach

>my own students from the ground up, i.e., astronomy, recognizing the

>constellations by sight, then, understanding how it works on the

>human level. As what is " important " is not being paid much

attention.

>We are our Sun in our " character, " it only places third in

>importance, because we do " live " our Moon, and our " potentials " is

>shown and suggested by the Ascendant.

>

>Secondly, the importance of the Chaldean Lunar Mansions...

 

You must mean some other system of mansions since there is no record

of 'Chaldean mansions.' There were the 17 constellations in the path

of the Moon which were reduced to twelve signs of the zodiac. The

three systems of lunar mansions come from Arabia, India and China.

 

>... and degree of

>the constellation (0 - 29th degree) have meaning that so few outside

>of the San Francisco Bay Area have touched on. Myself i have tested

>them in the real time situation in the casinos of Nevada for over 7

>yrs andd found some amazing results, and goes against much of what

is

>being taught.

 

Would you care to give a few examples with dates? How about starting

out with you birth data and how it relates to your wins?

 

(There may be a delay in seeing your posts here until you are removed

from moderation.)

[Guest guest]

here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information on

the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's transit

is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;) and as far as the

major phases are concerned i dare you not to pay attention. and yes i

am one of the 4 horsemen of the san francisco school of sidereal

astrology: gilchrist saunders mackey & dorminy

, " therese92003 "

<eastwest wrote:

>

> , " z911zaad " <z911zaad@>

> wrote:

> At 09:55 PM 2/2/06 -0000, z911zaad wrote:

> >

> >First, as to doing long term research, i can tell you, if you

aren't

> >paying attention to the major phases...,

>

> z911zaad??? You must have a more user-friendly name? You've said a

> mouthful here. First of all, what do you mean

> by 'phases?' 'Dangerous situations with deadly consequences?' What

> are you referring to?

>

> >and especially your own [phases], can

> >lead to some dangerous situations, with deadly consequences. I

teach

> >my own students from the ground up, i.e., astronomy, recognizing

the

> >constellations by sight, then, understanding how it works on the

> >human level. As what is " important " is not being paid much

> attention.

> >We are our Sun in our " character, " it only places third in

> >importance, because we do " live " our Moon, and our " potentials " is

> >shown and suggested by the Ascendant.

> >

> >Secondly, the importance of the Chaldean Lunar Mansions...

>

> You must mean some other system of mansions since there is no

record

> of 'Chaldean mansions.' There were the 17 constellations in the

path

> of the Moon which were reduced to twelve signs of the zodiac. The

> three systems of lunar mansions come from Arabia, India and China.

>

> >... and degree of

> >the constellation (0 - 29th degree) have meaning that so few

outside

> >of the San Francisco Bay Area have touched on. Myself i have

tested

> >them in the real time situation in the casinos of Nevada for over

7

> >yrs andd found some amazing results, and goes against much of what

> is

> >being taught.

>

> Would you care to give a few examples with dates? How about

starting

> out with you birth data and how it relates to your wins?

>

> (There may be a delay in seeing your posts here until you are

removed

> from moderation.)

>

[Guest guest]

z911zaad wrote:

 

>here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information on

>the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's transit

>is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;) and as far as the

>major phases are concerned i dare you not to pay attention. and yes i

>am one of the 4 horsemen of the san francisco school of sidereal

>astrology: gilchrist saunders mackey & dorminy

>

>

 

You must be the 'One' (Gilchrist),

 

That predicted the Indian atomic test in May of 1998 to a group of

skeptics on alt.astrology......

 

>

>

>

>

>Steve

>

>

[Guest guest]

Didn't you once flaunt Jupiter for casino wins? Wouldn't going over to Saturn

imply some sort of astrological sex change?

________________________________

 

z911zaad wrote:

 

> here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information on

> the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's transit

> is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;)

[Guest guest]

Dark Star wrote:

> Didn't you once flaunt Jupiter for casino wins? Wouldn't going over to Saturn

> imply some sort of astrological sex change?

> ________________________________

>

>

 

Not if Saturn were angular in the chart of the casino. That would

imply that the house were in a down position, which the clever play

could take advantage of. However, it should be noted that the player

should also have good transits as well. Say Jupiter or Venus.

> z911zaad wrote:

>

>

>> here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information on

>> the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's transit

>> is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;)

>>

>

>

>

>

Western Sidereal Astrologer

www.ltastrology.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Dark Star <pansophia

wrote:

>

>

> Didn't you once flaunt Jupiter for casino wins? Wouldn't going over

to Saturn

> imply some sort of astrological sex change?

> ________________________________

>

> z911zaad wrote:

>

> > here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information on

> > the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's transit

> > is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;)

>

When i was doing the stats on this subject, i found out that it wasn't

jupiter but the casino's saturns angular that was doing the work for

me. Knowing that time gives you a 14 minutes doorway to where it might

feels right. I had over a 5,000 charts to show this, at one time.

and others have made money from this system.

[Guest guest]

Well this sounds good and can't be faulted and I'm glad you were able to reply,

but there are people walking into casinos all the time and winning money with

the

casino's Saturn, God knows where. I must wonder if the casino's Saturn was in

happy aspect to your chart at those times; which is sidereal blasphemy, but a

workable tropical.

Are you still a denizen of the desert? Have the *stars* been treating you well?

________________________________

 

z911zaad wrote:

 

> , Dark Star <pansophia

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Didn't you once flaunt Jupiter for casino wins? Wouldn't going over

> to Saturn

> > imply some sort of astrological sex change?

> > ________________________________

> >

> > z911zaad wrote:

> >

> > > here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information on

> > > the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's transit

> > > is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;)

> >

> When i was doing the stats on this subject, i found out that it wasn't

> jupiter but the casino's saturns angular that was doing the work for

> me. Knowing that time gives you a 14 minutes doorway to where it might

> feels right. I had over a 5,000 charts to show this, at one time.

> and others have made money from this system.

>

>

> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " -----

>

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I have been following the discussion rather " freely " . But I do have a lot of

respect for our predescessors in western sidereal astrology (and also in

jyotish), even when they may take a " rather " different path (such as Dorsan

or Declos in France - still, they are -important French- western

siderealists; these two use a reverse way -probaly Fagan style; I don't

know?- way of counting the houses: traditional 12 is 1, 11 is 2, 10 is 3,

etc.-).

 

So I would be pleased and honoured, if we could know who you, z911zaad, are

(just as who " is " Dark Star, which appears to be a wonderful and efficient

sidereal astrologer). Tradition must be kept alive in some way. Every

" school " of sidereal astrology I have been in touch with for some months now

make me humble and aware that every practioners must work together and " pass

on " his knowledge to the next generation of astrologers. I hope to see

Fagan, Dark Star, Hamilton, z911zaad, Braha, Raman, Bhasin, and all kindred

astrologers writings in one (or some) book(s) one of these day. Over the

ayanamsha and house division problems, there is a deep connection between

these practioners: a love of the universe as we experience it every day. A

love of science of the stars. A love of life.

 

It was said, few months ago, that we should gather the early writings of the

Westerns Sidereal Astrologers in some way (scanned or typed). I don't recall

to have read anything on this yet. Is the project still alive?

 

By the same occasion, I wish to offer my deepest apologies to Mr Kenneth

Bowser (if I did not do it yet) who I have deeply offended when I was

mentally disorganised last year (short psychotic event of mine!): I wish he

will forgive me. I actually miss his posts on the list. As the former

sidereal astrologers, he is one we must rely on.

 

Finally, although I feel I don't agree with Therese Hamilton's way of

understanding the zodiac (harmonics - I believe they are " more " planet

oriented) or ayanamsha (I'd rather use some " historical " , spica polar

longitude ayanamsha rather then KP the one), I understand she is deeply

involved in research and wishes to set some understanding of jyotish as a

global science. Then again, I must apologize for telling her she was

" biased " in some way about ayanamsha, few months ago.

 

However, I will not apologize to people, like Patrice Bouriche, who " create "

an ayanamsha (see his former post on the subject), when he won't try to give

historical reasons for it. Although it is very near to the polar longitude

of Spica, as once stated in an edited version of the Surya Siddhanta. The

reason is quite simple: he will not recognize it.

 

Experienced astrologers, such as Dark Star, have stated that Fagan SVP

rather give better results than other ayanamsha, after years of researches.

Using such a sidereal fiducial position point us to an historical position.

Researchers such as Fagan pointed our attention to such values. Swiss

Ephemeris paper describe the conclusion of some of our Father in the Science

of Light. Even if some jyotisha did the reverse: giving a Spica position on

the first 2 degrees of Libra (Raman, Bhasin, and Kruhnsa, who has the

nearest Spica polar position, up to now). -Which lead to the Polar position

of Spica (around 0°48' Libra -probably around 0°50', according to Swiss

Ephemeris program, as I have once comupted it, i.e. on jan 19, 347, it was

at 12h00RA -as if it was culminating on MC-: but! as a student, mistakes are

still highly possible-), which was also supported by Raman (fiduciary stars

had then some important places in nakshatras: their beginning or the middle

of them), or according to Frawley's jyotish course (who cites Raman)- Then

we must agree on the fact that several traditions co-exist. But creating " a

brand new " ayanamsha has no place in our art. People as Bouriche must

recognize this fact and admit it: " Burish " ayanamsha is nothing less than

his creation of some fiducial point, with no historical basis, nor

understanding (or effort to understand) of history. Even if it is near to an

historical position [1]. Too many people have struggle to restore and keep

an original craft.

 

So then, I deeply hope that our western practioners who, in some way, hide

behind some pseudonyms, will come out of this " hiding " to pass on the

western (and eastern) tradition of sidereal astrology. Some of them had the

chance to sit and talk with people like Fagan and his collegues (apparently

tropicalists like Llewellyn George received them well -see former editions

of the A to Z's..-) We thus need your feed back and knowledge.

 

Grant us this unmerited favour!

 

--

Regards,

François Carrière

 

[1] As a member of list (from Krusna

Jugalkalani work), I once wondered why he use such an ayanamsha (which has a

specific precession rate), and givin Spica around 0°50' Libra, for jan 1,

2000. Doing researches, I founded there was some edition of the Surya

Siddhanta which give Spica at 0°48' Libra, or 180° RA. This is not possible

if we use Hipparcos defintion of the zodiac, at Rhodos: when Spica sets,

Aries rises (with Zeta Piscum within few minutes of the horizon, thus the

" 10 minutes east of Zeta Piicum " as the beginning of the zodiac). This 180°

RA may be linked in some way to the fact that if Spica culminate (on jan 19,

347), it has 180° RA. Thus I concluded, the editors of the Surya Siddhanta

were right,although they were rejected by the subsequent mathematicians.

Gayatri Devi Vasudev once emailed me that Bhaskaracharya calculated 11° for

1183 (no minutes available). Raman's with 50.2 " precession rate or Spica at

12h00RA may fit. However, no hindu early scientifics ever agree on the

precession rate. Though all this confusion. However, I do believe

Hippocrat's definiton must be adapted to the meridian, not the horizon.

Should we have than some Babylonian (Fagan like) zodiac and Spica Polar

longitude zodiac (Raman, Bhasin, Krushna and their followers)? Techniques

may be linked to the chosen fiducial point...

 

 

Dark Star <pansophia écrivit:

 

> Well this sounds good and can't be faulted and I'm glad you were able

> to reply, but there are people walking into casinos all the time and

> winning money with the casino's Saturn, God knows where. I must

> wonder if the casino's Saturn was in happy aspect to your chart at

> those times; which is sidereal blasphemy, but a workable tropical.

> Are you still a denizen of the desert? Have the *stars* been treating

> you well? ________________________________

>

> z911zaad wrote:

>

>> , Dark Star <pansophia

>> wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>> Didn't you once flaunt Jupiter for casino wins? Wouldn't going over

>> to Saturn

>>> imply some sort of astrological sex change?

>>> ________________________________

>>>

>>> z911zaad wrote:

>>>

>>>> here's how you test my theory on your own: gather the information

>>>> on the casino you are going to play at, the find when saturn's

>>>> transit is going to be angular currently, and go have fun;)

>>>

>> When i was doing the stats on this subject, i found out that it

>> wasn't jupiter but the casino's saturns angular that was doing the

>> work for me. Knowing that time gives you a 14 minutes doorway to

>> where it might feels right. I had over a 5,000 charts to show

>> this, at one time. and others have made money from this system.

>>

>>

>> " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? "

>> -----

>>

>> Post message:

>> Subscribe: -

>> Un: -

>> List owner: -owner

>>

>> Shortcut URL to this page:

>> /

>>