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Hi, friends,

 

This is a " generic " astrology question, that is, neither Tropical

nor Sidereal, but then again it may not be.

 

What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s) during

the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could also

find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

abstain!)

 

As we know, our charts revolve 360 deg. every day and at some time

the Asc conjoins our Mercury, etc.

 

Question: Does anybody have any experience with this theory? Do you

know of any good daily aspect for " thinking " ?

 

For instance, the idea would be: When is the best time for me to

take a test today?

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Don

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At 08:32 PM 8/15/06 -0000, Don wrote:

>Hi, friends,

>...What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s) during

>the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could also

>find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

>abstain!)...

 

Hi Don,

 

I have a lot of experience with this one! I think it might depend on the

time of day we were born, and when we feel the most awake. I was born

around 11:00 a.m., and by far my best time of the day is in the morning. I

always tried to schedule college classes in the morning. The 8th house,

around 2:00-3:00 to 4:00 p.m. is my very worst time of the day. I'm rather

zombie-like at that time and only plan physical chores then, preferably

outdoors so I can stay awake. It's a great time to go to the dentist, as

I'm too fuzzy headed to care. The (sidereal) Moon rules my 8th, and in my

chart the Moon is totaled.

 

Horocopes that seem clear to me in the morning may look like they're

written in Ancient Arabic in the afternoon or evening. I'm writing this at

2:51 p.m., and feel as if I'm working in a fog. Time to leave the computer

and go work in the garden!

 

All you have to do to find your own answer is watch your hourly cycles, and

see when you feel the most alert and alive. I wouldn't be surprisd if late

night party people were born in the late evening or at night.

 

Therese

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, " Don Ridgway " <scribe

wrote: (snip) What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best

time(s) during the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you

could also find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and

should abstain!)

 

As we know, our charts revolve 360 deg. every day and at some time

the Asc conjoins our Mercury, etc. Question: Does anybody have any

experience with this theory? Do you know of any good daily aspect for

" thinking " ? Thanks, Don

>

REPLY: The earth doesn't exactly rotate 360 degrees per day. The

Equation of Time, shown on every globe as a " figure 8 " diagram, shows

that the Sun arrives earlier and/or later at the MC during various

periods in the year. Secondly, an examination of the Sidereal Time at

midnight on New Years Eve/Day on one year can be compared to the

Sidereal Time the following year -- we find that the Earth has rotated

another six hours (with some variation from year to year) during the

year. This latter fact contributes to our practice of having a " leap

year " every four years to incorporate the extra time.

 

Now, with all these technicalities I am not trying to give you a hard

time -- there is a point to this! I use a Sidereal practice in which

I use two sequential sidereal solar returns (having the afore

mentioned six hours or so difference in Sidereal Time). I proportion

the distance between the MC's, plus a full 24 hours ((there is an

astronomical and mathematical basis for this)), against 365.25 degrees

to get an approximate 1.25 degrees per day progression of the MC as it

moves from one solar return to the next.

 

The bottom line is that as the angles of the progressing solar return

chart contact natal and transiting planets, the essential expression

of those planets (modified somewhat by the role they play in your

natal chart) come into action at the angles. Of course these contacts

with the angles are short-lived (for a few days), but they highlight

when planetary engergies are highly expressive.

 

If you are interested in this I can send you a much deeper explanation

and worked examples for you to try yourself. Dave

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Wow! Talk about two different views of the same question, mine and Dave's!!

 

Therese

 

At 09:58 PM 8/15/06 -0000, Dave wrote:

 

>REPLY: The earth doesn't exactly rotate 360 degrees per day. The

>Equation of Time, shown on every globe as a " figure 8 " diagram, shows

>that the Sun arrives earlier and/or later at the MC during various

>periods in the year....

>

>Now, with all these technicalities I am not trying to give you a hard

>time -- there is a point to this! I use a Sidereal practice in which

>I use two sequential sidereal solar returns (having the afore

>mentioned six hours or so difference in Sidereal Time). I proportion

>the distance between the MC's, plus a full 24 hours ((there is an

>astronomical and mathematical basis for this)), against 365.25 degrees

>to get an approximate 1.25 degrees per day progression of the MC as it

>moves from one solar return to the next.

>

>The bottom line is that as the angles of the progressing solar return

>chart contact natal and transiting planets, the essential expression

>of those planets (modified somewhat by the role they play in your

>natal chart) come into action at the angles...

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I was born at night (around 10:00 PM) but my best time is morning. When I

first awaken is my most creative time. For me, evening is the time to be

passively entertained by books or TV or videos. A person probably just has

to discover for themselves during what time of day their brain works best.

 

 

 

 

 

Bettina

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of therese hamilton

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:53 PM

 

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

 

At 08:32 PM 8/15/06 -0000, Don wrote:

>Hi, friends,

>...What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s) during

>the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could also

>find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

>abstain!)...

 

Hi Don,

 

I have a lot of experience with this one! I think it might depend on the

time of day we were born, and when we feel the most awake. I was born

around 11:00 a.m., and by far my best time of the day is in the morning. I

always tried to schedule college classes in the morning. The 8th house,

around 2:00-3:00 to 4:00 p.m. is my very worst time of the day. I'm rather

zombie-like at that time and only plan physical chores then, preferably

outdoors so I can stay awake. It's a great time to go to the dentist, as

I'm too fuzzy headed to care. The (sidereal) Moon rules my 8th, and in my

chart the Moon is totaled.

 

Horocopes that seem clear to me in the morning may look like they're

written in Ancient Arabic in the afternoon or evening. I'm writing this at

2:51 p.m., and feel as if I'm working in a fog. Time to leave the computer

and go work in the garden!

 

All you have to do to find your own answer is watch your hourly cycles, and

see when you feel the most alert and alive. I wouldn't be surprisd if late

night party people were born in the late evening or at night.

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi, Therese,

 

I'm the same way, I'm a " morning person, " but I was born 2:45pm.

 

I was looking for some formula, so to speak, to be able to tell the best brain

time by someone's birth date/time/place, and not by trial-and-error experiental

methods. Like what event in one's daily transits would do it.

 

Another thing along this line is, Can we tell whether a person will be an

introvert or an extravert by their sun-moon angle? or is it something else?

 

Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a person according

to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it easier--and more

accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

 

These are just things I'm working on. I want to find ways to make astrology

" usable " and viable in people's lives, and be able to show and maybe even

" prove " it to skeptics.

 

Don

 

-

therese hamilton

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:53 PM

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

At 08:32 PM 8/15/06 -0000, Don wrote:

>Hi, friends,

>...What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s) during

>the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could also

>find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

>abstain!)...

 

Hi Don,

 

I have a lot of experience with this one! I think it might depend on the

time of day we were born, and when we feel the most awake. I was born

around 11:00 a.m., and by far my best time of the day is in the morning. I

always tried to schedule college classes in the morning. The 8th house,

around 2:00-3:00 to 4:00 p.m. is my very worst time of the day. I'm rather

zombie-like at that time and only plan physical chores then, preferably

outdoors so I can stay awake. It's a great time to go to the dentist, as

I'm too fuzzy headed to care. The (sidereal) Moon rules my 8th, and in my

chart the Moon is totaled.

 

Horocopes that seem clear to me in the morning may look like they're

written in Ancient Arabic in the afternoon or evening. I'm writing this at

2:51 p.m., and feel as if I'm working in a fog. Time to leave the computer

and go work in the garden!

 

All you have to do to find your own answer is watch your hourly cycles, and

see when you feel the most alert and alive. I wouldn't be surprisd if late

night party people were born in the late evening or at night.

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

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At 10:40 PM 8/15/06 -0400, Don wrote:

>Hi, Therese,

>

>I'm the same way, I'm a " morning person, " but I was born 2:45pm.

 

Hi Don,

 

Maybe it's simple biology then. Most of us feel best and most alert after a

good night's sleep and before we tire from the day's activities. In various

parts of the world there's an afternoon siesta time or a long break for

tea. This means it's generally recognized that there's a down time in the

afternoon.

 

>I was looking for some formula, so to speak, to be able to tell the best

brain time by someone's birth date/time/place, and not by trial-and-error

experiental methods. Like what event in one's daily transits would do it.

 

I tend to think biology is the answer. The fastest transit is the Moon, but

even the Moon takes a while to transit a few degrees. It might be that by

watching the Moon's trannsits and maybe Mercury for a few months we might

discover the most alert places in our horoscopes. I think it would be

entirely individual.

 

>Another thing along this line is, Can we tell whether a person will be an

introvert or an extravert by their sun-moon angle? or is it something else?

 

Geoffrey Dean gave a test to astrologers: charts that belonged to extreme

extraverts or extreme introverts. No astrologer did better than chance. I

think the ADB database probably has charts of these two extremes if you

want to study those charts. I have all of Dean's charts--somewhere. His

results were based on a standard psychological test. I forget which one.

 

>Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a person

according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it easier--and

more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

 

Probably not or astrologers would have discovered the keys by now.

 

>These are just things I'm working on. I want to find ways to make

astrology " usable " and viable in people's lives, and be able to show and

maybe even " prove " it to skeptics.

 

Ah, the goal of serious and dedicated astrologers including myself. And so

little success we've had! After a lifetime of work I know it's all in the

planets, but there is so much variety in how one or two planets can be

dominant that simply finding a way to write it all down so it's usable is

very difficult.

 

If even two astrologers could cooperate on a simple research project, that

would be a first and might produce something useful. We have the individual

researchers who run big batches of charts through computers, and a few

isolated researchers who realize after awhile that team effort is needed

just as in science laboratories. But astrologers seem dedicated to not

getting along together.

 

The ADB databank has charts for just about any subject you'd want to

research. Where do you want to start?

 

Therese

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Therese,

 

I have latest upgrade to ADB but except for some individual lookups have never

been able to figure out how it is supposed to work--it is not intuitive for

me--and though I got it for more or less research purposes I've not made the

jump.

 

It's beginning to sound like astrology can't " prove " itself! :)

 

I originally got into astrology to debunk it once and for all. Instead, it kept

proving itself to me and so a life-long study began. Sometimes I chuckle as I

work with it and though I think I can " see " it, it's so hard to quantify so much

of it except by a large research project like you mention. But then, like you

say, apparently if it could be done it would have already been done...

 

I myself am very patriotic and have always fought Communism and socialism. I

would get into long debates with their true believers and inevitably they would

answer the usual charge that " it doesn't work with " : " Well, it's never been

tried [correctly]! "

 

I chuckle also to myself that I must be the same way with astrology--I can " see "

it even though others can't or don't. :) Could it be that the theory *is*

sublime--it just can't be put to human practice?

 

But, still, in this day and age of computers, etc., if astrology is ever going

to escape that " pseudo science " label it's going to have to be able to

relatively easily perform the basic tasks I outlined previously, as well as

another one I forgot to mention: Be relatively easily able to ascertain the

optimum vocation(s) for an individual.

 

I think we can calculate the optimum places for people through

astro*carto*graphy, and I think we can calculate the optimum people for people

through chart comparison. But can anybody " see " it but us?

 

I mean, I was perfectly happy with doing it myself and " seeing " it myself but

this challenge by the skeptics to " scientifically prove " it by their

" scientific " standards and rules has got my goat.

 

Best Regards,

Don

 

-

therese hamilton

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:59 AM

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

At 10:40 PM 8/15/06 -0400, Don wrote:

>Hi, Therese,

>

>I'm the same way, I'm a " morning person, " but I was born 2:45pm.

 

Hi Don,

 

Maybe it's simple biology then. Most of us feel best and most alert after a

good night's sleep and before we tire from the day's activities. In various

parts of the world there's an afternoon siesta time or a long break for

tea. This means it's generally recognized that there's a down time in the

afternoon.

 

>I was looking for some formula, so to speak, to be able to tell the best

brain time by someone's birth date/time/place, and not by trial-and-error

experiental methods. Like what event in one's daily transits would do it.

 

I tend to think biology is the answer. The fastest transit is the Moon, but

even the Moon takes a while to transit a few degrees. It might be that by

watching the Moon's trannsits and maybe Mercury for a few months we might

discover the most alert places in our horoscopes. I think it would be

entirely individual.

 

>Another thing along this line is, Can we tell whether a person will be an

introvert or an extravert by their sun-moon angle? or is it something else?

 

Geoffrey Dean gave a test to astrologers: charts that belonged to extreme

extraverts or extreme introverts. No astrologer did better than chance. I

think the ADB database probably has charts of these two extremes if you

want to study those charts. I have all of Dean's charts--somewhere. His

results were based on a standard psychological test. I forget which one.

 

>Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a person

according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it easier--and

more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

 

Probably not or astrologers would have discovered the keys by now.

 

>These are just things I'm working on. I want to find ways to make

astrology " usable " and viable in people's lives, and be able to show and

maybe even " prove " it to skeptics.

 

Ah, the goal of serious and dedicated astrologers including myself. And so

little success we've had! After a lifetime of work I know it's all in the

planets, but there is so much variety in how one or two planets can be

dominant that simply finding a way to write it all down so it's usable is

very difficult.

 

If even two astrologers could cooperate on a simple research project, that

would be a first and might produce something useful. We have the individual

researchers who run big batches of charts through computers, and a few

isolated researchers who realize after awhile that team effort is needed

just as in science laboratories. But astrologers seem dedicated to not

getting along together.

 

The ADB databank has charts for just about any subject you'd want to

research. Where do you want to start?

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Don and others,

 

this is funny because last weekend I was at the annual summer convention of

the Astrological Association of Finland and we have an astrologer who relies

heavily on the biological daily and yearly cycles (he's naturally a die-hard

tropicalist ;o)). He says that you can find the most active time of day for

any of your planets by putting planets in meridian houses and equating MC

with noon (local mean time, I would think) and IC with midnight and looking

where your planets are.

 

So your Sun can be an afternoon Sun (and then you're naturally born in the

afternoon), your Jupiter can be a morning Jupiter and so on. Then Mercury

would be at it's best too according to where it stands in meridian houses.

My Mercury would be at it's best at 12.44 PM. I don't know, could be. I'm

definitely not one of those who write or talk in the evening or night!

 

Hindu astrologers say that Mercury has most strength in East, that might

simply mean that Mercury is strong in the morning. BTW, isn't it strange

that Saturn is said to be strong in West (which correlates with sunset) and

Saturday is Saturn's day? Saturn - the great well-known party animal??

 

Regards, Sari

 

 

-

" Don Ridgway " <scribe

 

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:32 PM

Thoughtful times?

 

 

> Hi, friends,

>

> This is a " generic " astrology question, that is, neither Tropical

> nor Sidereal, but then again it may not be.

>

> What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s) during

> the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could also

> find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

> abstain!)

>

> As we know, our charts revolve 360 deg. every day and at some time

> the Asc conjoins our Mercury, etc.

>

> Question: Does anybody have any experience with this theory? Do you

> know of any good daily aspect for " thinking " ?

>

> For instance, the idea would be: When is the best time for me to

> take a test today?

>

> Any suggestions are appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

> Don

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totally morning, 8:45 am...even if i go to bed @ 4:00am, i am up as soon as the

Sun rises.

 

therese hamilton <eastwest wrote: At 10:40 PM 8/15/06

-0400, Don wrote:

>Hi, Therese,

>

>I'm the same way, I'm a " morning person, " but I was born 2:45pm.

 

Hi Don,

 

Maybe it's simple biology then. Most of us feel best and most alert after a

good night's sleep and before we tire from the day's activities. In various

parts of the world there's an afternoon siesta time or a long break for

tea. This means it's generally recognized that there's a down time in the

afternoon.

 

>I was looking for some formula, so to speak, to be able to tell the best

brain time by someone's birth date/time/place, and not by trial-and-error

experiental methods. Like what event in one's daily transits would do it.

 

I tend to think biology is the answer. The fastest transit is the Moon, but

even the Moon takes a while to transit a few degrees. It might be that by

watching the Moon's trannsits and maybe Mercury for a few months we might

discover the most alert places in our horoscopes. I think it would be

entirely individual.

 

>Another thing along this line is, Can we tell whether a person will be an

introvert or an extravert by their sun-moon angle? or is it something else?

 

Geoffrey Dean gave a test to astrologers: charts that belonged to extreme

extraverts or extreme introverts. No astrologer did better than chance. I

think the ADB database probably has charts of these two extremes if you

want to study those charts. I have all of Dean's charts--somewhere. His

results were based on a standard psychological test. I forget which one.

 

>Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a person

according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it easier--and

more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

 

Probably not or astrologers would have discovered the keys by now.

 

>These are just things I'm working on. I want to find ways to make

astrology " usable " and viable in people's lives, and be able to show and

maybe even " prove " it to skeptics.

 

Ah, the goal of serious and dedicated astrologers including myself. And so

little success we've had! After a lifetime of work I know it's all in the

planets, but there is so much variety in how one or two planets can be

dominant that simply finding a way to write it all down so it's usable is

very difficult.

 

If even two astrologers could cooperate on a simple research project, that

would be a first and might produce something useful. We have the individual

researchers who run big batches of charts through computers, and a few

isolated researchers who realize after awhile that team effort is needed

just as in science laboratories. But astrologers seem dedicated to not

getting along together.

 

The ADB databank has charts for just about any subject you'd want to

research. Where do you want to start?

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

 

 

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Hi, Sari,

 

That was a great tip, thanks. I spent the morning on it with my chart, but the

only way it could work is if from the MC (as 12 Noon) you counted the hours

counterclockwise around the chart down to Midnight (the IC). That would give me

an 11 o'clock AM Mercury. I think my brain kicks in around around 7 or 8 or 9

AM. But that's close. Has anybody else tried this?

 

Best Regards,

Don

 

-

Sari Metsovuori

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:45 AM

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

Hi Don and others,

 

this is funny because last weekend I was at the annual summer convention of

the Astrological Association of Finland and we have an astrologer who relies

heavily on the biological daily and yearly cycles (he's naturally a die-hard

tropicalist ;o)). He says that you can find the most active time of day for

any of your planets by putting planets in meridian houses and equating MC

with noon (local mean time, I would think) and IC with midnight and looking

where your planets are.

 

So your Sun can be an afternoon Sun (and then you're naturally born in the

afternoon), your Jupiter can be a morning Jupiter and so on. Then Mercury

would be at it's best too according to where it stands in meridian houses.

My Mercury would be at it's best at 12.44 PM. I don't know, could be. I'm

definitely not one of those who write or talk in the evening or night!

 

Hindu astrologers say that Mercury has most strength in East, that might

simply mean that Mercury is strong in the morning. BTW, isn't it strange

that Saturn is said to be strong in West (which correlates with sunset) and

Saturday is Saturn's day? Saturn - the great well-known party animal??

 

Regards, Sari

 

-

" Don Ridgway " <scribe

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:32 PM

Thoughtful times?

 

> Hi, friends,

>

> This is a " generic " astrology question, that is, neither Tropical

> nor Sidereal, but then again it may not be.

>

> What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s) during

> the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could also

> find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

> abstain!)

>

> As we know, our charts revolve 360 deg. every day and at some time

> the Asc conjoins our Mercury, etc.

>

> Question: Does anybody have any experience with this theory? Do you

> know of any good daily aspect for " thinking " ?

>

> For instance, the idea would be: When is the best time for me to

> take a test today?

>

> Any suggestions are appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

> Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

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, " Sari Metsovuori "

<gerdapp wrote:

>

 

> that Saturn is said to be strong in West (which correlates with

sunset) and

> Saturday is Saturn's day? Saturn - the great well-known party animal??

>

.....

 

never heard that before....always thought saturn was a serious

personna..would love to know more about tbis side of him...

 

cheers

bliss

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I thought that " party animal " line was meant to be sarcastic as we generally

think of Saturn as being the planet of seriousness and dourness, but then

there's Saturnalia, a big Roman festival, which was harvest-based and may

(I'm not sure about this) included some orgiastic goings on. Saturn used to

have to do with some good stuff, notably harvest; now people just see the

dark side of it mostly.

 

 

 

Saturn is strong in 7th as it is the house of death in the Vedic system,

meaning not just the physical death of a human being, but decomposition,

chaos. These things connect with the concept of harvest, which marks the

time of death in the life cycles of crops.

 

 

 

 

 

Bettina

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of theblisswithin

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:19 AM

 

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

 

@ <%40>

, " Sari Metsovuori "

<gerdapp wrote:

>

 

> that Saturn is said to be strong in West (which correlates with

sunset) and

> Saturday is Saturn's day? Saturn - the great well-known party animal??

>

......

 

never heard that before....always thought saturn was a serious

personna..would love to know more about tbis side of him...

 

cheers

bliss

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Don's post suggesting astrological studies of Myers-Briggs, etc.,

seems to me a powerfully constructive idea, in that personality tests

such as the Myers-Briggs should demonstrably correlate with some

factor or combination of factors in natal charts. It may boil down to

a histogram of planetary " strengths " , not unlike the Dasa Varga

system. The criteria for which points of strength are calculated

might need a lot of refinement, but this does make sense to me.

 

Now, Myers-Briggs is a statistically-based evaluation, based on a

continuum along four axes: Introversion-Extraversion, Intuitive-

Sensing, Feeling-Thinking, Perceiving-Judging (which is really

orientation toward openness or closure). This breaks down into 16

combinations, but that's a bit arbitrary, because middle positions

are also possible.

 

One could theoretically map this terrain in astrological language and

test out what works. The mapping might not be straightforward, say, a

" strong mercury " might show a certain signature pattern across all

four axes, and some weighted summation of planets might then generate

scores on each of the four axes. There are more complicated

personality tests, such as the Cattell " 16 PF " , yes, with 16 separate

category scores.

 

It's no minor piece of work to investigate this, but it's certain

that if the interpretations of natal charts are any good, patterns

rather than noise would emerge and the answers would provide feedback

to sharpen astrological tools. Say, that Jupiter and the Sun might

both, when " strong " , add points to the Extraversion scale. Equally

so, or is one planet's contribution greater in proportion? How many

" points " are given for each factor contributing to what counts as

" strength " ? Are some factors valueless? Maybe studies of this sort

have already been done somewhere?

 

Not a few people have disparaged Gauquelin's studies re the " Mars

Effect " because the approach is astrologically non-traditional. What

excites me though is that Gauquelin made a huge step in the direction

of objectively demonstrating that there is something interesting

happening in the way of planetary effects, even if understanding of

the mechanism behind them is far in the future. We're perhaps in an

age of Alchemy here, with foundations that may open unimagined

worlds, and that's exciting when one's minds is a bit open to

possibilities.

 

Julia

 

INFP " morning person " sidereal sun-moon conj Libra; Taurus asc.

 

> Another thing along this line is, Can we tell whether a person will

be an introvert or an extravert by their sun-moon angle? or is it

something else?

>

> Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a

person according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it

easier--and more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

>

> These are just things I'm working on. I want to find ways to make

astrology " usable " and viable in people's lives, and be able to show

and maybe even " prove " it to skeptics.

>

> Don

>

> -

> therese hamilton

>

> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:53 PM

> Re: Thoughtful times?

>

>

> At 08:32 PM 8/15/06 -0000, Don wrote:

> >Hi, friends,

> >...What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s)

during

> >the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could

also

> >find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

> >abstain!)...

>

> Hi Don,

>

> I have a lot of experience with this one! I think it might depend

on the

> time of day we were born, and when we feel the most awake. I was

born

> around 11:00 a.m., and by far my best time of the day is in the

morning. I

> always tried to schedule college classes in the morning. The 8th

house,

> around 2:00-3:00 to 4:00 p.m. is my very worst time of the day.

I'm rather

> zombie-like at that time and only plan physical chores then,

preferably

> outdoors so I can stay awake. It's a great time to go to the

dentist, as

> I'm too fuzzy headed to care. The (sidereal) Moon rules my 8th,

and in my

> chart the Moon is totaled.

>

> Horocopes that seem clear to me in the morning may look like

they're

> written in Ancient Arabic in the afternoon or evening. I'm

writing this at

> 2:51 p.m., and feel as if I'm working in a fog. Time to leave the

computer

> and go work in the garden!

>

> All you have to do to find your own answer is watch your hourly

cycles, and

> see when you feel the most alert and alive. I wouldn't be

surprisd if late

> night party people were born in the late evening or at night.

>

> Therese

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi Bettina and others,

 

yes, it was meant to be sarcastic. But seriously speaking, I think there's

more to Saturn than this usual " planet of seriousness, heavyness and

dourness " and dull, grey bureocracy etc., but I haven't yet figured out the

exact nature of it. I liked your notes of Saturnalia festival,

decomposition, chaos, harvest... death, corrosion... these are Saturnian

things indeed.

 

I find it extremely interesting that in the Vedic system Saturn is an airy

planet and Mercury is earthy, not the other way. I see here a sad Saturnian

wind over a desert bringing decay and finality with it... it's logical also

because both the Moolatrikona and exaltations signs of Saturn are airy signs

and with Mercury it's earth. Having been observing the sidereal Sun signs

recently (Sun signs because they're often intriguingly visible in people), I

would say sidereal Air (especially Aquarius)might well be the most mystical

element of all.

 

Another observation that I've made about the sidereal Sun signs is that

Therese would seem to be right in that it's actually the feminine signs that

are more " extrovert " (whatever we mean by that word). If we have a cycle,

any cycle, it can be divided in two parts: the feminine, in-breathing,

moist, growing half representing involution (a Rudhyarian term), cathering

experiences (also North Node of the Moon); and the masculine, out-breating,

dry, contracting half representing evolution, assimilating experiences,

giving things away (South Node of the Moon).

 

Regards, Sari

 

-

" Bettina Woolard " <chiria

 

Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:19 PM

RE: Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

>I thought that " party animal " line was meant to be sarcastic as we

>generally

> think of Saturn as being the planet of seriousness and dourness, but then

> there's Saturnalia, a big Roman festival, which was harvest-based and may

> (I'm not sure about this) included some orgiastic goings on. Saturn used

> to

> have to do with some good stuff, notably harvest; now people just see the

> dark side of it mostly.

>

>

>

> Saturn is strong in 7th as it is the house of death in the Vedic system,

> meaning not just the physical death of a human being, but decomposition,

> chaos. These things connect with the concept of harvest, which marks the

> time of death in the life cycles of crops.

>

>

>

>

>

> Bettina

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Hi, Julia,

 

I think your comments are really important and you share the same feelings

toward astrology and science I have.

 

I remember 15 years ago I was a computer programmer contractor and the company

(GTE) had everybody take the Myers-Briggs. This came up as part of another

company project and I had been sitting next who turned out to be the M-B's

representative for several days and we got along very well. As usual (the

inveterate astrologer) I had managed to get her birthdate and comparing our

charts there were sextiles and trines all over the place. (We were both

married--don't speculate about that!) But what got my attention in this case was

that our M-B classifications were identical. This piqued my interest in

personality tests vs astrology and at the time I wanted to do an astrological

study to correlate them--because the questions seemed to be simple definitions

of various astro aspects--positive or negative--but I seemed never to have the

time to explore it.

 

Now I have more time and it still interests me. Now you see people on internet

newsgroups and forums discussing their M-B scores and they seem to be similar

for the forum. Interesting.

 

Don't tell anybody but I recently took the eHarmony " personality test " to see

where it correlated astrologically. I wanted to see if it asked for your

birthdate--it did, mmm, do you think they used it? doubt it. It had a lot of

" real world " questions pertaining to compatibility and I put it in my " to-do "

file with the M-B for future research.

 

(As an aside, I answered every question totally honestly [perhaps more-so than

if I were taking it for real], even putting " Helena Blavatsky " down as my

favorite author. Nowhere on there did it ask if you were married. I was tickled

that I got many " interested " hits to communicate further with gals from Alaska

to Florida. I never communicated with any of them further, besides you had to

pay to do that.) BTW I came away thinking that if I were single that would be an

excellent way to have a chance of meeting some pretty compatible people, any

comments?

 

Best Regards,

Don

 

-

Julia Cybele

Saturday, August 19, 2006 12:28 AM

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

Don's post suggesting astrological studies of Myers-Briggs, etc.,

seems to me a powerfully constructive idea, in that personality tests

such as the Myers-Briggs should demonstrably correlate with some

factor or combination of factors in natal charts. It may boil down to

a histogram of planetary " strengths " , not unlike the Dasa Varga

system. The criteria for which points of strength are calculated

might need a lot of refinement, but this does make sense to me.

 

Now, Myers-Briggs is a statistically-based evaluation, based on a

continuum along four axes: Introversion-Extraversion, Intuitive-

Sensing, Feeling-Thinking, Perceiving-Judging (which is really

orientation toward openness or closure). This breaks down into 16

combinations, but that's a bit arbitrary, because middle positions

are also possible.

 

One could theoretically map this terrain in astrological language and

test out what works. The mapping might not be straightforward, say, a

" strong mercury " might show a certain signature pattern across all

four axes, and some weighted summation of planets might then generate

scores on each of the four axes. There are more complicated

personality tests, such as the Cattell " 16 PF " , yes, with 16 separate

category scores.

 

It's no minor piece of work to investigate this, but it's certain

that if the interpretations of natal charts are any good, patterns

rather than noise would emerge and the answers would provide feedback

to sharpen astrological tools. Say, that Jupiter and the Sun might

both, when " strong " , add points to the Extraversion scale. Equally

so, or is one planet's contribution greater in proportion? How many

" points " are given for each factor contributing to what counts as

" strength " ? Are some factors valueless? Maybe studies of this sort

have already been done somewhere?

 

Not a few people have disparaged Gauquelin's studies re the " Mars

Effect " because the approach is astrologically non-traditional. What

excites me though is that Gauquelin made a huge step in the direction

of objectively demonstrating that there is something interesting

happening in the way of planetary effects, even if understanding of

the mechanism behind them is far in the future. We're perhaps in an

age of Alchemy here, with foundations that may open unimagined

worlds, and that's exciting when one's minds is a bit open to

possibilities.

 

Julia

 

INFP " morning person " sidereal sun-moon conj Libra; Taurus asc.

 

> Another thing along this line is, Can we tell whether a person will

be an introvert or an extravert by their sun-moon angle? or is it

something else?

>

> Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a

person according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it

easier--and more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

>

> These are just things I'm working on. I want to find ways to make

astrology " usable " and viable in people's lives, and be able to show

and maybe even " prove " it to skeptics.

>

> Don

>

> -

> therese hamilton

>

> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:53 PM

> Re: Thoughtful times?

>

>

> At 08:32 PM 8/15/06 -0000, Don wrote:

> >Hi, friends,

> >...What I'm trying to ascertain is how to find the best time(s)

during

> >the day a person can think. (The corollary might be you could

also

> >find the worst time of day to do critical thinking, and should

> >abstain!)...

>

>

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, " Bettina Woolard "

<chiria wrote:

>

> I thought that " party animal " line was meant to be sarcastic as we

generally

> think of Saturn as being the planet of seriousness and dourness,

 

Thanks for pointing that out Bettiana. I guess my own saturn in

ascendant makes me rather serious. My apologies to the original poster.

 

Someone mentioned that vedically saturn is considered an airy planet

and mercury a grounded planet. Would love to know about these

confounds. How does vedic take differ on aquarious and capricorn

anyway. Maybe there are some clues there. One can see mercury being

grounded in virgo and yet airy in gemini at least...

 

BTW, what have the latest astronomical findings done lately, since I

dont have the time to follow them. Is Pluto still a planet or is it no

longer one being too small and having erratic orbits or something?

 

Cheers

Bliss

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At 06:08 AM 8/16/06 -0400, Don wrote:

>Therese,

>

>I have latest upgrade to ADB but except for some individual lookups have

never been able to figure out how it is supposed to work--it is not

intuitive for me--and though I got it for more or less research purposes

I've not made the jump.

 

Hi Don,

 

I'm late in replying to posts of the last few days. What I was trying to

say is that if you go to the Personality filter tab, the extraversion and

introversion categories are listed. You can call up each category and study

the charts for patterns. You probably have an astrological program that

links to ADB so you can click on 'chart,' and the chart comes up on the

screen? This is the most useful feature of ADB in my opinion. You can also

print out all the E-I charts if you want to so you can go through them in a

more leisurely way.

 

>It's beginning to sound like astrology can't " prove " itself! :)

 

Actually, I've found some rather easy-to-see patterns for agressive traits

and a few other categories. But there has been little interest because I

use the sidereal zodiac.

 

I don't believe the answer is in large batches of charts, but in finding

the ways different planets show their strengths. So a 'strong Moon' will

manifest in one way,

a strong but badly placed Mars' in another way, and so forth.

 

The Gauquelins demonstrated that 'it's all in the planets.' Now it's up to

us to find the various ways that planets express their different traits.

What makes Venus loving and gentle in one case and insanely jealous in

another?

 

>I chuckle also to myself that I must be the same way with astrology--I can

" see " it even though others can't or don't. :) Could it be that the theory

*is* sublime--it just can't be put to human practice?

 

It might be more accurate to say that it's beyond our human understanding

at this point in time. A spiritual master can see the astrological

underpinnings (see P. Yogananda's chapter on 'Outwitting the Stars' in

AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A YOGI). But we have only human sight, and cannot see much

of the picture.

 

>But, still, in this day and age of computers, etc., if astrology is ever

going to escape that " pseudo science " label it's going to have to be able

to relatively easily perform the basic tasks I outlined previously, as well

as another one I forgot to mention: Be relatively easily able to ascertain

the optimum vocation(s) for an individual.

 

We should at least be able to see the latter (vocations), and there are so

many charts in the vocational category in ADB that I don't understand why

astrologers aren't working on this. Again, it all seems to come down to

planetary patterns, which is what was used in Hellenistic astrology to

describe the vocations a person was suited for.

 

>I think we can calculate the optimum places for people through

astro*carto*graphy...

 

There is no way to prove this since a person can't be in two places at

once, so we cannot know what would have happened in another location. An

important transit will always occur when a person makes a major move from

one place to another. In retrospect I haven't found much support for

Astro*catto*graphy. For example the location where I met and married my

husband was no where near a Venus line.

 

>I mean, I was perfectly happy with doing it myself and " seeing " it myself

but this challenge by the skeptics to " scientifically prove " it by their

" scientific " standards and rules has got my goat.

 

We won't have much success until at least a few astrologers pool their

approaches to charts and cooperate in research projects. That way there is

someone to point out to another person that a particular technique or

appraoch is too broad or too complex--whatever, or they're missing XYZ

(like another zodiac, for instance).

 

Please excuse errors in this post or others I'm posting today. My eyes seem

to be blurry. Might be the atmosphere today.

 

Therese

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At 04:28 AM 8/19/06 -0000, Julia wrote:

>

>...Now, Myers-Briggs is a statistically-based evaluation, based on a

>continuum along four axes: Introversion-Extraversion, Intuitive-

>Sensing, Feeling-Thinking, Perceiving-Judging (which is really

>orientation toward openness or closure). This breaks down into 16

>combinations, but that's a bit arbitrary, because middle positions

>are also possible.

 

Julia, wouldn't this be much to complicated for astrological research? We

have trouble seeing simple patterns like aggression. But 16 combinations?

Now if we could work with only one or two pairs of opposites...? First, of

course, is that we fully understand the descriptions of each category. I

will have to find Geoffrey Dean's project and see which test he used.

 

>It's no minor piece of work to investigate this, but it's certain

>that if the interpretations of natal charts are any good, patterns

>rather than noise would emerge and the answers would provide feedback

>to sharpen astrological tools. Say, that Jupiter and the Sun might

>both, when " strong " , add points to the Extraversion scale. Equally

>so, or is one planet's contribution greater in proportion? How many

> " points " are given for each factor contributing to what counts as

> " strength " ? Are some factors valueless? Maybe studies of this sort

>have already been done somewhere?

 

If astrologers have tried this approach, their methods of determining

strength haven't worked. But I believe you have the basic idea of the best

way to approach personality research. We have some initial charts at our

fingertips for study in ADB. Then we can always move to psychological test

results.

 

>... We're perhaps in an

>age of Alchemy here, with foundations that may open unimagined

>worlds, and that's exciting when one's minds is a bit open to

>possibilities.

 

So why isn't the work being done by astrologers? Why don't astrologers tune

into the sense of excitement inherent in adventure and discovery?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

In reply to Don, who wrote:

 

>> Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a

>person according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it

>easier--and more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

 

Don, do you have the birth dates, times and scores for those who took this

test?

 

Therese

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Here's some astrological excitement. John Mark Karr, born Dec 11 1964. One arm

of his Grand Cross is tight triple conjunction of Mars, Uranus and Pluto. If you

run it through a small program, like Kepler's Cosmo, no birth time, it reads

just like all the comments about him on TV for the past two days. He could've

done it; he certainly wants to have done it.

 

 

-

therese hamilton

Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:38 PM

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

At 04:28 AM 8/19/06 -0000, Julia wrote:

>

>...Now, Myers-Briggs is a statistically-based evaluation, based on a

>continuum along four axes: Introversion-Extraversion, Intuitive-

>Sensing, Feeling-Thinking, Perceiving-Judging (which is really

>orientation toward openness or closure). This breaks down into 16

>combinations, but that's a bit arbitrary, because middle positions

>are also possible.

 

Julia, wouldn't this be much to complicated for astrological research? We

have trouble seeing simple patterns like aggression. But 16 combinations?

Now if we could work with only one or two pairs of opposites...? First, of

course, is that we fully understand the descriptions of each category. I

will have to find Geoffrey Dean's project and see which test he used.

 

>It's no minor piece of work to investigate this, but it's certain

>that if the interpretations of natal charts are any good, patterns

>rather than noise would emerge and the answers would provide feedback

>to sharpen astrological tools. Say, that Jupiter and the Sun might

>both, when " strong " , add points to the Extraversion scale. Equally

>so, or is one planet's contribution greater in proportion? How many

> " points " are given for each factor contributing to what counts as

> " strength " ? Are some factors valueless? Maybe studies of this sort

>have already been done somewhere?

 

If astrologers have tried this approach, their methods of determining

strength haven't worked. But I believe you have the basic idea of the best

way to approach personality research. We have some initial charts at our

fingertips for study in ADB. Then we can always move to psychological test

results.

 

>... We're perhaps in an

>age of Alchemy here, with foundations that may open unimagined

>worlds, and that's exciting when one's minds is a bit open to

>possibilities.

 

So why isn't the work being done by astrologers? Why don't astrologers tune

into the sense of excitement inherent in adventure and discovery?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

In reply to Don, who wrote:

 

>> Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a

>person according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it

>easier--and more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

 

Don, do you have the birth dates, times and scores for those who took this

test?

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Indeed, Therese, working with 16 separate personality factors would

be painfully complex. Many of Cattell's axes are rather technical,

e.g., " cyclothymia " .

 

In trying to examine Myers-Briggs patterns, one approach would be to

make a best-fit model of the planetary " personalities " and evaluate

the contribution of each planet's strengths against the four axes

mapped by Myers-Briggs ... Something like this:

 

Sun E S T J

Moon I N F P

Mars E N F J

Mercury I S T J

Jupiter E N T J

Venus E S F P

Saturn I S T P

 

This is just a possible idea, and perhaps not the most perfect

mapping, but working with something like this, then four axis scores

could be generated, say with Dasa Varga scores for each planet's

contribution figured something like this:

 

I -> E score= Sun-Moon+Mars-Mercury+Jupiter+Venus-Saturn

N -> S score= Sun-Moon-Mars+Mercury-Jupiter+Venus+Saturn

F -> T score= Sun-Moon-Mars+Mercury+Jupiter-Venus+Saturn

P -> J score= Sun-Moon+Mars+Mercury+Jupiter-Venus-Saturn

 

5 is the neutral value, as it is with the Dasa Varga scores for

individual planets, in which case the planet is classes as

" Simhasana " . Special class names exist for scores of 2 through 10,

being the number out of 10 selected divisional charts, in which the

planet is assessed as favorable or strong. With each of the four

composites above, scores below 5 will be on the I, N, F, or P

polarity, while scores above 5 will be E, S, T, or J, respectively.

Exactly 5 means " X " , in the neutral position.

 

If my Dasa Varga planets evaluate like this:

Sun=3 Moon=8 Mars=8 Mercury=3 Jupiter=6 Venus=6 Saturn=8

then I will show as an INFP, slightly introverted and strongly

intuitive, feeling, and perceiving: I= 4 and N=F=P= -2.

 

That happens to replicate my Myers-Briggs profile quite exactly, but

this model rests on several assumptions not likely to be sufficiently

correct for this to hold up generally:

(1) The correctness of the planetary profiles - here the INFP type is

assumed to represent a " lunar " archetype. Maybe that's not the best

fit.

(2) The correctness of the Dasa Varga method for assessing the

strength of each planet, i.e., a " 10 " Saturn maning that Saturn is at

its best possible expression in all areas, most " in character " . The

value of Dasa Varga as a tool is certainly debatable. There are many

other methods of rating the relative strengths of the planets.

 

Anyway, all this is just a theoretical model of how one might begin

correlating astrological data with modern personality assessments in

either validating an astrological-based analysis, or showing that

that particular method does not work. Consider this exercise as a

stimulus for better ideas on how to go about matching astrological

portraits to ostensibly " objective " assessments of personality.

 

This looks fairly complex, but software (e.g. Maitreya's Dream) gives

you the Dasa Varga info, which can do directly to formulas on an

Excel sheet. With enough data, you have feedback to improve the model

and perhaps make a significant discovery.

 

, therese hamilton

<eastwest wrote:

>

> At 04:28 AM 8/19/06 -0000, Julia wrote:

> >

> >...Now, Myers-Briggs is a statistically-based evaluation, based on

a

> >continuum along four axes: Introversion-Extraversion, Intuitive-

> >Sensing, Feeling-Thinking, Perceiving-Judging (which is really

> >orientation toward openness or closure). This breaks down into 16

> >combinations, but that's a bit arbitrary, because middle positions

> >are also possible.

>

> Julia, wouldn't this be much to complicated for astrological

research? We

> have trouble seeing simple patterns like aggression. But 16

combinations?

> Now if we could work with only one or two pairs of opposites...?

First, of

> course, is that we fully understand the descriptions of each

category. I

> will have to find Geoffrey Dean's project and see which test he

used.

>

> >It's no minor piece of work to investigate this, but it's certain

> >that if the interpretations of natal charts are any good, patterns

> >rather than noise would emerge and the answers would provide

feedback

> >to sharpen astrological tools. Say, that Jupiter and the Sun might

> >both, when " strong " , add points to the Extraversion scale. Equally

> >so, or is one planet's contribution greater in proportion? How

many

> > " points " are given for each factor contributing to what counts as

> > " strength " ? Are some factors valueless? Maybe studies of this

sort

> >have already been done somewhere?

>

> If astrologers have tried this approach, their methods of

determining

> strength haven't worked. But I believe you have the basic idea of

the best

> way to approach personality research. We have some initial charts

at our

> fingertips for study in ADB. Then we can always move to

psychological test

> results.

>

> >... We're perhaps in an

> >age of Alchemy here, with foundations that may open unimagined

> >worlds, and that's exciting when one's minds is a bit open to

> >possibilities.

>

> So why isn't the work being done by astrologers? Why don't

astrologers tune

> into the sense of excitement inherent in adventure and discovery?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> In reply to Don, who wrote:

>

> >> Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a

> >person according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it

> >easier--and more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

>

> Don, do you have the birth dates, times and scores for those who

took this

> test?

>

> Therese

>

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Hi, Julia,

 

I'm listening to your beautiful Carmen Galliambica as I write this. :^) But

since I can't find an agreed-upon date for the founding of Rome I can't figure

out your dob to help me with following your formula so let me just make these

comments.

 

I have Parashara's Light but have not used it, I would suppose it has the Dasa

Varga computation, right? And, does that incorporate house positions?

 

I had hoped we would not need exact times of day to do our astrological

Myers-Briggs, that is, use houses, because to me that brings in as many more

levels of complexity as there are houses, like " intuitive *in what area* of your

life? " --could one be intuitive physically, emotionally, intellectually,

spiritually? It's so hard to get exact times, so few people know their exact

time dob. Then as you know there's rectification...

 

Where I am going with this is, first of all, I wonder about the correctness of

the M-B as a personality test per se. I mean, does it measure the right

attributes? Is this the model we should strive to emulate?

 

But I do think it would be great if we could come up with an M-B astrological

correlation from just a birth date, that is my goal.

 

Here is the path I visualized for myself and I always thought it would

incorporated somewhat a " proof " of the efficacy of the Sidereal vs. Tropical

zodiacs.

 

First, assemble a number of charts of obvious agreed-upon extroverts and

introverts; sensing and intuitive; thinking and feeling, and judging and

percepting as per M-B--and go from there. You get the idea. (You also see these

catagories " overlap " somewhat in astrological theory.)

 

I would do each chart of our exemplars in both Tropical and Sidereal. I would

look at how they fell out according to the elements of planetary

signs/constellations, the classical " elements " earth, water, air, fire, with

earth/water as physical/feeling and air/fire as intellectual/spiritual. You

could almost make a case that each of the M-B categories correlated with each of

the elements. I would see which--if any--zodiac more correctly identified with

the categories we were measuring because you get mostly different signs/elements

for each. You see what I mean.

 

At any rate, I think the starting point would have to be a stack of charts of

people who clearly belonged in each of the M-B categories and then we worked our

astrological alchemy from there.

 

Best Regards,

Don

 

-

Julia Cybele

Sunday, August 20, 2006 4:11 AM

Re: Thoughtful times?

 

 

Indeed, Therese, working with 16 separate personality factors would

be painfully complex. Many of Cattell's axes are rather technical,

e.g., " cyclothymia " .

 

In trying to examine Myers-Briggs patterns, one approach would be to

make a best-fit model of the planetary " personalities " and evaluate

the contribution of each planet's strengths against the four axes

mapped by Myers-Briggs ... Something like this:

 

Sun E S T J

Moon I N F P

Mars E N F J

Mercury I S T J

Jupiter E N T J

Venus E S F P

Saturn I S T P

 

This is just a possible idea, and perhaps not the most perfect

mapping, but working with something like this, then four axis scores

could be generated, say with Dasa Varga scores for each planet's

contribution figured something like this:

 

I -> E score= Sun-Moon+Mars-Mercury+Jupiter+Venus-Saturn

N -> S score= Sun-Moon-Mars+Mercury-Jupiter+Venus+Saturn

F -> T score= Sun-Moon-Mars+Mercury+Jupiter-Venus+Saturn

P -> J score= Sun-Moon+Mars+Mercury+Jupiter-Venus-Saturn

 

5 is the neutral value, as it is with the Dasa Varga scores for

individual planets, in which case the planet is classes as

" Simhasana " . Special class names exist for scores of 2 through 10,

being the number out of 10 selected divisional charts, in which the

planet is assessed as favorable or strong. With each of the four

composites above, scores below 5 will be on the I, N, F, or P

polarity, while scores above 5 will be E, S, T, or J, respectively.

Exactly 5 means " X " , in the neutral position.

 

If my Dasa Varga planets evaluate like this:

Sun=3 Moon=8 Mars=8 Mercury=3 Jupiter=6 Venus=6 Saturn=8

then I will show as an INFP, slightly introverted and strongly

intuitive, feeling, and perceiving: I= 4 and N=F=P= -2.

 

That happens to replicate my Myers-Briggs profile quite exactly, but

this model rests on several assumptions not likely to be sufficiently

correct for this to hold up generally:

(1) The correctness of the planetary profiles - here the INFP type is

assumed to represent a " lunar " archetype. Maybe that's not the best

fit.

(2) The correctness of the Dasa Varga method for assessing the

strength of each planet, i.e., a " 10 " Saturn maning that Saturn is at

its best possible expression in all areas, most " in character " . The

value of Dasa Varga as a tool is certainly debatable. There are many

other methods of rating the relative strengths of the planets.

 

Anyway, all this is just a theoretical model of how one might begin

correlating astrological data with modern personality assessments in

either validating an astrological-based analysis, or showing that

that particular method does not work. Consider this exercise as a

stimulus for better ideas on how to go about matching astrological

portraits to ostensibly " objective " assessments of personality.

 

This looks fairly complex, but software (e.g. Maitreya's Dream) gives

you the Dasa Varga info, which can do directly to formulas on an

Excel sheet. With enough data, you have feedback to improve the model

and perhaps make a significant discovery.

 

, therese hamilton

<eastwest wrote:

>

> At 04:28 AM 8/19/06 -0000, Julia wrote:

> >

> >...Now, Myers-Briggs is a statistically-based evaluation, based on

a

> >continuum along four axes: Introversion-Extraversion, Intuitive-

> >Sensing, Feeling-Thinking, Perceiving-Judging (which is really

> >orientation toward openness or closure). This breaks down into 16

> >combinations, but that's a bit arbitrary, because middle positions

> >are also possible.

>

> Julia, wouldn't this be much to complicated for astrological

research? We

> have trouble seeing simple patterns like aggression. But 16

combinations?

> Now if we could work with only one or two pairs of opposites...?

First, of

> course, is that we fully understand the descriptions of each

category. I

> will have to find Geoffrey Dean's project and see which test he

used.

>

> >It's no minor piece of work to investigate this, but it's certain

> >that if the interpretations of natal charts are any good, patterns

> >rather than noise would emerge and the answers would provide

feedback

> >to sharpen astrological tools. Say, that Jupiter and the Sun might

> >both, when " strong " , add points to the Extraversion scale. Equally

> >so, or is one planet's contribution greater in proportion? How

many

> > " points " are given for each factor contributing to what counts as

> > " strength " ? Are some factors valueless? Maybe studies of this

sort

> >have already been done somewhere?

>

> If astrologers have tried this approach, their methods of

determining

> strength haven't worked. But I believe you have the basic idea of

the best

> way to approach personality research. We have some initial charts

at our

> fingertips for study in ADB. Then we can always move to

psychological test

> results.

>

> >... We're perhaps in an

> >age of Alchemy here, with foundations that may open unimagined

> >worlds, and that's exciting when one's minds is a bit open to

> >possibilities.

>

> So why isn't the work being done by astrologers? Why don't

astrologers tune

> into the sense of excitement inherent in adventure and discovery?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> In reply to Don, who wrote:

>

> >> Another astrological problem I'm working on is categorizing a

> >person according to their Meyer-Briggs rating--can astrology do it

> >easier--and more accurately--just by looking at certain aspects?

>

> Don, do you have the birth dates, times and scores for those who

took this

> test?

>

> Therese

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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