Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 At 07:25 PM 2/24/08 -0500, Chris wrote: >Hi Therese, > >You mentioned Hillary. It's funny because I use the 8.00 am chart for >her and I am predicting that she will win -- the converse of your >position. Why do think she will lose if the 8.02 am chart is correct? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Chris The problem with astrology is that astrologers use all kinds of different techniques to try to make predictions. My view is based on the solar return and Ennead charts. I don't look at the usual tropical progressions or even P3s. (Though I knew Rick Houck expertly used them for accurate predictions...) I'm more comfortable with seeing the planets as they are in the sky at any moment, and the cyclic charts deal with real planets rather than symbolic movements like progressions. (This is just my preference...) I haven't seen anyone comment yet that using the 8:02 and 1:06 times--Hillary and Obama have ascendants very close together in the same sign of Sidereal Libra, both in Jupiter's mansion. This means that Venus represents each of them, and Mars, 7th lord, represents the opposing candidate. (Assuming for the moment that these are valid birth times.) The key for Hillary's success or lack of it seems to be that triple conjunction (Mars-PLuto-Saturn) at the zenith in her chart. Now her husband was the president of the United States, and 7th lord--Mars--is in the 10th house. This is one small indication that supports the A.M. chart. Does it also mean that her opponent will be stronger? But what about Hillary herself? If the A.M. chart is correct, she has an 'iffy' setup: last degree of Libra rising, Moon in the last degree of Aquarius, Saturn at the zenith closely squaring the ascendant and Mercury. We know that Saturn is a positive planet for a Libra ascendant, but dispositor Moon isn't strong. Hillary's chart has a number of positive and strong yogas that I won't go into, but Saturn plays a part in these. She has already reached the relatively high status of US Senator, and for 8 years she was the partner to the president of the United States. About a year ago I looked at Hillary's current solar return, and didn't like it, so I put the charts away. I use the western sidereal method of return charts and place the natal chart inside the solar return. I've set up a number of charts for both Hillary and Obama, but for Hillary I'll give the example of her SR coming up this year in October. This chart simply does not look good whereas Obama's SR in August of this year looks to be extremely powerful. In Hillary's 2008 SR, transiting Ketu is directly on the ascendant conjunct natal Mars-Pluto, which fall in Hillary's natal 10th. Ketu is never good if angular in the first in return charts. Transiting Mars is at the nadir conjoins Hillary's 8:02 am. ascendant lord, Venus. Transiting Uranus in the 8th conjoins natal Moon, natal 10th lord. Transiting Neptune in this chart is within a degree of opposing natal Saturn, Saturn representing a strong power area in Hillary's chart. Neptune is her 6th natal lord--enemies. Sidereal astrologers have said that Neptune has a dissolving influence in political affairs. Anyhow, that's a short capsule review of one of the charts I am continuing to study, and it gives my method of interpretation. (Of course, these charts also have to be re-located to Washington.) Since so many astrologers are using progressions, I leave their interpretation up to those who use them. Astrologers are home free this year since if they're wrong, they can use the excuse that we don't have verified times for either Obama or Hillary. Because of afflictions to Hillary's Mars this year, I wondered if there might be (health??) problems for Bill. I haven't had time to look at his SR charts, which should reflect the win or lose for his wife. I see that Sat Siri Khalsa has predicted that Hillary will win. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Hi Therese, Thanks for sharing your views. A few random points. I would look at 6th for enemies/opponents. 7th is for partners. Therese Hamilton wrote: > > At 07:25 PM 2/24/08 -0500, Chris wrote: > >Hi Therese, > > > >You mentioned Hillary. It's funny because I use the 8.00 am chart for > >her and I am predicting that she will win -- the converse of your > >position. Why do think she will lose if the 8.02 am chart is correct? > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Hi Chris > > The problem with astrology is that astrologers use all kinds of different > techniques to try to make predictions. My view is based on the solar > return > and Ennead charts. I don't look at the usual tropical progressions or even > P3s. (Though I knew Rick Houck expertly used them for accurate > predictions...) I'm more comfortable with seeing the planets as they > are in > the sky at any moment, and the cyclic charts deal with real planets rather > than symbolic movements like progressions. (This is just my preference...) > > I haven't seen anyone comment yet that using the 8:02 and 1:06 > times--Hillary and Obama have ascendants very close together in the same > sign of Sidereal Libra, both in Jupiter's mansion. This means that Venus > represents each of them, and Mars, 7th lord, represents the opposing > candidate. (Assuming for the moment that these are valid birth times.) > Right. It's a bit like the Bush-Gore question when they both had Cancer rising within a few degrees. > > > The key for Hillary's success or lack of it seems to be that triple > conjunction (Mars-PLuto-Saturn) at the zenith in her chart. Now her > husband > was the president of the United States, and 7th lord--Mars--is in the 10th > house. This is one small indication that supports the A.M. chart. Does it > also mean that her opponent will be stronger? > I would look at 6th for enemies/opponents. 7th is for partners although I realize many astrologers read the 7th this way. I agree that the a.m chart gets a boost from this reading of powerful husband from the 7th. > > But what about Hillary herself? If the A.M. chart is correct, she has an > 'iffy' setup: last degree of Libra rising, Moon in the last degree of > Aquarius, Saturn at the zenith closely squaring the ascendant and Mercury. > We know that Saturn is a positive planet for a Libra ascendant, but > dispositor Moon isn't strong. Hillary's chart has a number of positive and > strong yogas that I won't go into, but Saturn plays a part in these. She > has already reached the relatively high status of US Senator, and for 8 > years she was the partner to the president of the United States. > I guess we choose to see the Moon differently. Moon is strong in my books because it sits on the 5th equal house cusp. > > About a year ago I looked at Hillary's current solar return, and didn't > like it, so I put the charts away. I use the western sidereal method of > return charts and place the natal chart inside the solar return. I've set > up a number of charts for both Hillary and Obama, but for Hillary I'll > give > the example of her SR coming up this year in October. This chart simply > does not look good whereas Obama's SR in August of this year looks to be > extremely powerful. > > In Hillary's 2008 SR, transiting Ketu is directly on the ascendant > conjunct > natal Mars-Pluto, which fall in Hillary's natal 10th. Ketu is never > good if > angular in the first in return charts. > Right -- it seems less than inspired. Although the 8.00 am chart makes more sense to me, I also like to make allowances for this birth time uncertainty by focusing more upon more day-specific chart factors. Same goes for Obama since his time isn't certain either. So while I think a competent astrologer should be able to decide which chart is correct, I also think that competent astrologers should be able to predict winners without knowing the birth time. It's harder to do, but I think a lot of what works in astrology is probably quite basic in terms of planets' natural significations, and planet to planet configurations. Transits and progressions and return charts all provide clues about what the likely outcome will be even if the birth time is unknown. Hillary has that P3 Venus station she's riding right now. It's opposite Pluto admittedly (not good) but trine Neptune (very good). That's overall a good pattern and should confer favour to her in my view. I also note that Bill Clinton had the exact same configuration in his P4 chart in January 1992 when he was gearing up for the primaries. These stations may last several months or rather they become effective within a 3-5 month window depending on other chart factors. Obama has a P4 Mars station in March (how appropriate!). Generally this is a negative indicator by virtue of Mars' natural significations. It could become positive if it were involved in some larger planetary pattern with soft angles and benefics but as far as I can see, it isn't. That's another clue that Obama is heading for tough times. > Transiting Mars is at the nadir conjoins Hillary's 8:02 am. ascendant > lord, > Venus. > > Transiting Uranus in the 8th conjoins natal Moon, natal 10th lord. > > Transiting Neptune in this chart is within a degree of opposing natal > Saturn, Saturn representing a strong power area in Hillary's chart. > Neptune > is her 6th natal lord--enemies. Sidereal astrologers have said that > Neptune > has a dissolving influence in political affairs. > You're probably right about Neptune here but it may represent events that arise after she wins. Just look at the next inauguration chart. The solar return is in effect until Oct 09. I think Uranus to her 8.00 a.m. Moon is a hugely energizing influence that is largely positive given her situation. Agree that the TOB issues means that astrologers won't have to worry about their mistakes (do they ever though?) Still, I think it will be a cop-out since we should be able to know outcomes of people born on different days even without known birth times. Chris > > Anyhow, that's a short capsule review of one of the charts I am continuing > to study, and it gives my method of interpretation. (Of course, these > charts also have to be re-located to Washington.) Since so many > astrologers > are using progressions, I leave their interpretation up to those who > use them. > > Astrologers are home free this year since if they're wrong, they can use > the excuse that we don't have verified times for either Obama or Hillary. > > Because of afflictions to Hillary's Mars this year, I wondered if there > might be (health??) problems for Bill. I haven't had time to look at > his SR > charts, which should reflect the win or lose for his wife. > > I see that Sat Siri Khalsa has predicted that Hillary will win. > > Therese > > > > ------ > > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release 2/24/08 12:19 PM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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