Temperament (Was Two Intresting Trigon Notes)

[Guest guest]

At 09:47 AM 3/7/09 +0200, Sari wrote:

>

>The temperament descriptions by Randy Rolfe I mentioned earlier have a

>surprisingly lot of similarities to the element descriptions of B. V. Raman

>offered in " How to Judge a Horoscope, vol. 1 " in the Fifth House chapter...

 

Hi Sari,

 

Thanks for posting this interesting comparison. I have to do a little more

reserach as to how Raman came up with his descriptions since they aren't in

India's ancient texts. We know that Alan Leo's books as well as Charles

Carter's books had made their way to India. As a matter of fact, my dated

version of Leo's ASTROLOGY FOR ALL was published in India (first edition

1925). So I'm thinking that perhaps Raman adapted some western ideas in his

book. India's elements are quite different as described in Ernst Wilhelm's

GRAHA SUTRAS.

 

From what I've read in the last two days, the association of temperament

with the elements is rather complex, and not everyone agrees as to how

they are matched. Greenbaum has a quote from Aristotle: " Now melancholy,

both the humor and the temperament produce air. " Of course, melancholy is

Saturnian, and India places artists under Saturn. (This is only one of many

interesting quotes in Greenbaum.) Aristotle caims that those outstanding in

philosophy, politics, poetry and the arts are melancholic. Greenbaum also

has diagrams correctly placing Aristotle's Elmements and Qualities. (Unlike

the usual tropical polarities.)

 

Sari, do you have Greenbaum's TEMPERAMENT: ASTROLOGY'S FORGOTTEN KEY? The

book is quite excellent with many example charts of children, and the

historical survey of qualities and elements is very thorough and

interesting. I think temperament must be the " New Kid on the Block " in

popular psychology for raising children. I checked Amazon for Rolfe's book,

and noted several other books on temperament, mostly written for parents to

they can understand their children. Rolfe wrote other books for parents as

well.

 

Then I checked my copy of Greenbaum's book and decided it was so superior

for astrology that I didn't need to buy another book on temperament. Not

that I agree with her use of the tropical zodiac, but that's easy to

adjust. The sidereal makes so much more sense when relating planets and

signs to temperament.

 

Since I'm not buying Rolfe, I printed out your post for reference. Thanks!

 

Best,

Therese

[Guest guest]

Therese wrote:

 

Thanks for posting this interesting comparison. I have to do a little more

reserach as to how Raman came up with his descriptions since they aren't in

India's ancient texts. We know that Alan Leo's books as well as Charles

Carter's books had made their way to India. As a matter of fact, my dated

version of Leo's ASTROLOGY FOR ALL was published in India (first edition

1925). So I'm thinking that perhaps Raman adapted some western ideas in his

book.

 

Sari:

 

The problem is that Raman's descriptions of elements differ from the modern

Western tropical ones. Especially his view on Earth is quite different from

what you can find in Western books. Both Raman's Earth and Rolfe's

Melancholic have sensitivity and changeability, Rolfe associates there also

sophisticated artistry that verges on snobbery. Modern tropical Earth has

nothing of that, being instead a somewhat " redneck " element. Raman's Air may

be influenced by the 20th century Western authors, it differs so much from

the traditional view on Air / sanguine.

 

Therese wrote:

 

Aristotle caims that those outstanding in philosophy, politics, poetry and

the arts are melancholic.

 

Sari:

 

This has been a common view through centuries, and it was in vogue

especially in Renaissance; I'm pointing to the above mentioned comment on

Earth / melancholic as an artistic, intellectual and sophisticated element.

But how does it fit with our contemporary view on tropical Earth - poorly.

 

Therese wrote:

 

Sari, do you have Greenbaum's TEMPERAMENT: ASTROLOGY'S FORGOTTEN KEY?

 

Sari:

 

Of course I have. If my memory serves me correctly, I bought it in late

2006. Greenbaum's book is excellent, but Rolfe's book has more lively

descriptions on the temperaments + that it's not influenced by tropical

astrology, so it has a more impartial feeling about it regarding the zodiac

issue.

 

Best, Sari