Relocation

[Guest guest]

Hello Again, Dave:

 

I'll happily wait until you get back home. Thanks in advance for your

help with this.

 

Until this point in time, I have not found a method that gives precise

and reliable information as to when one might expect to see 'promise'

delivered. I will be beyond thrilled if you have that figured out.

 

To date, I've had to rely on seeing things come to manifest to know what

has been accurate or not. For example, one year I sent my son to Athens

for his Tropical SR, telling him to be very sure to get to London in

time for his Sidereal SR. Well, he and his girl friend got all caught

up in Athens and never made it to London. About two months later, he

eMailed me and asked me to look at his charting to see if I could figure

out why he was getting hammered in his software business - he lost

almost US$ 250,000.00 through the loss of a few employee contracts. I

immediately asked him if he made it to London for his Sidereal SR

(remembering the chart configuration). At that time he told me of

getting hung up and that they stayed in Athens and continued to tour the

ancient sites. In my response to him I told him that Pluto was partile

his MC for his Sidereal SR in Athens, and that one of the signatures for

Pluto's location in an SR was: " Something dies here. " He has been

better about following instructions since then.

 

Warmly, John

=========================

David Monroe wrote:

>

>

> John, " floppy disk days " were so long ago. Back in the late 70's I was

> looking at the DR-70 but ended up with a Commodore PET (Personal

> Electronic Translator?) and some Matrix software. This was long before

> the Radio Shack TRS-80 and Apple and IBM PC. 5 1/2 " floppy disks, held

> 170 KB of data. Wow!

>

> Yes, Ciro is his name. A good book and interesting views. You'll have

> to wait until I return home before I can get information on Giest's

> book. He is probably a NCGR member if you have a member list. He did

> advertise, or was listed in the weekly e-mail in the section where

> member-written books are noted.

>

> So now, the next obvious bit of curiosity has to be approached. What

> do you do with Solar Returns relative to determining when their

> promise/indications will manifest? In the most basic sense, I use a

> form of PSSR chart --- but not the progressed Moon --- and a hit-list

> of MC-Ascendant angles for each day of the year, along with a set of

> different techniques than I've seen used. Sometimes I set up a chart

> to step-progress through the year so I can watch the angles move and

> the natal and transit planets move from day to day against the

> changing angles.

>

> I take the approach that the natal chart represents our potential and

> framework for growth and experience. The natal chart can't be

> experienced all at once. The S/R represents our annual theme or our

> current opportunity and focus. The daily angles chart represents the

> experiences that are brought before us. In these cyclic charts, some

> of the natal planets or parts of natal aspect patterns are sometimes

> angular (near the angles, not necessarily partile) or the transiting

> versions are angular and will activate part of the natal chart. On top

> of this I look for angles-at-angles --- for example, the natal

> Ascendant at the S/R MC might indicate you being a spokesperson for an

> organization, or having to articulate your personal goals and

> reputation, etc. I also use some other developed techniques and

> special mid-points as part of a connected-chart system (natal, S/R,

> and daily angles). Although simple in its concept, it is overly

> complex to describe adequately within a posting. What has amazed me

> continuously over the years as I've refined this approach is that it

> works so smoothly and consistently. For that I have to really thank

> Cyril Fagan. His Sidereal techniques gave me so much when I discovered

> them in the early 70's in American Astrology.

>

> Dave

>

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, " Dr. John D. Andre " <DrJDAndre

wrote: (snip) I have Ciro's book - just finished reading it. I love his strong

voice; he is fun to read. His simplicity of approach mirrors mine well.

 

REPLY:

When we consider the words of Ciro Discepolo we also have to consider one other

important fact: All of his experience is based on Tropical Solar Returns! If

we were to cast all of his charts in either the Sidereal or the

precession-corrected Tropical formats, all of his chart's planets would be in

different houses due to the difference in the timing of the return chart. Isn't

that a disturbing thought?

 

So, many different questions can be raised. Is his total sum of experience to

be disregarded? Are his delineations, given in his book, applicable only to the

Tropical Solar Returns? We need to review his writings carefully at a specific

level in order to determine the validity of his experience when applied to

Sidereal or p.c. Tropical Solar Returns. THIS WOULD BE A VALUABLE DISCUSSION TO

HOLD ON THIS LIST.

 

COMMENT:

One of Ciro's claims is that the 12th, 1st and 6th houses are equally

destructive, detrimental, deadly and absolutely negative (see page 325 in his

book). One of the points of my research, which is clearly stated in my book, is

that the location of the natal Ascendant and the natal MC at/near the same

angles of the Solar Return, or the Daily Angles Chart, denotes a sea-change in

one's life, a time when the natal potential can be restated and changed, often

dramatically and more often than not for a different or a worse life situation.

It is only a good situational change about a quarter or a third of the time.

 

What have you observed along these lines? Or, taking another example, how does

your experience match or differ from Ciro's? If you wish, we can explore these

types of questions and perhaps others on the list will want to join in. Dave

[Guest guest]

At 03:29 AM 8/9/09 -0000, Dave Monroe wrote:

>

>When we consider the words of Ciro Discepolo we also have to consider one

other important fact: All of his experience is based on Tropical Solar

Returns! If we were to cast all of his charts in either the Sidereal or

the precession-corrected Tropical formats, all of his chart's planets would

be in different houses due to the difference in the timing of the return

chart. Isn't that a disturbing thought?

 

Hi Dave,

 

I'll just interject a short comment here, not wishing to interrupt your

conversation with John. Yes, the difference in timing is a disturbing

thought. The reason I haven't read Ciro Discepolo's book is because it's

all tropical. We can all make techniques work that we're fond of. I'm

afraid that the zodiac controversy will go on for some time to come.

 

You wrote:

" We need to review his writings carefully at a specific level in order to

determine the validity of his experience when applied to Sidereal or p.c.

Tropical Solar Returns. THIS WOULD BE A VALUABLE DISCUSSION TO HOLD ON

THIS LIST. "

 

Yes. Are you thinking of examples from the book? (I see no reason why the

first house should be destructive.)

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

, Therese Hamilton <eastwest

wrote: I'll just interject a short comment here, not wishing to interrupt your

conversation with John. Yes, the difference in timing is a disturbing thought.

The reason I haven't read Ciro Discepolo's book is because it's all tropical. We

can all make techniques work that we're fond of. I'm afraid that the zodiac

controversy will go on for some time to come.

>

> You wrote: " We need to review his writings carefully at a specific level in

order to determine the validity of his experience when applied to Sidereal or

p.c. Tropical Solar Returns. THIS WOULD BE A VALUABLE DISCUSSION TO HOLD ON

THIS LIST. "

>

> Yes. Are you thinking of examples from the book? (I see no reason why the

first house should be destructive.) Therese

>

REPLY:

I have found that when natal angles more-or-less realign with S/R angles or with

Progressed Daily Angles (as in the Sidereal PSSR charts) we can look forward to

re-experiencing our natal chart in very different ways. This is partly due to

the fact that transiting planets will be in different positions, some angular,

some not. These new (transiting) factors relate to us experiencing old (natal

aspect patterns) new twists on how the natal chart can be expressed. Some would

call this a growth or developmental opportunity. Others might see this as a

challenge or crises point. In any case, it often relates to us experiencing

" change " in some way. This is often not a comfortable experience. While I have

no statistics on this, it would be safe to characterize this situation as being

split into " thirds " in that it is sometimes good, sometimes different, and

sometimes not very good or comfortable at all.

 

In this sense, I would see Ciro's statement about the Asecendant being in the

first house and being negative as being partially valid. I cannot say the same

about the 12th and 6th house areas ---- this may be because I focus on the

angles and not on the houses (except for natal charts).

 

I have found that when natal angles come to solar return or daily angles chart

angles (in varying combinations) that these angular contacts have interpretive

meanings that can be combined with angular planets (natal or transiting) to

provide useful interpretations. These " angles to angles " interpretations seem

to have mostly escaped the attention of the Sidereal school in terms of the

postings and writings of Sidereal astrologers. Can you comment on this,

Therese?

 

The suggestion to comment on Ciro's book was intended to provide a basis of

discussion and contrast to what we, Sidereal astrologers, find in our practice.

I find that this list, when it is active, tends to gain the attention of highly

capable astrologers which results in interesting discussions. Dave