Guest guest Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 SIDEREAL SIGNS: SCORPIO GENERAL INTRODUCTION TO SIGNS (Second draft, much abridged from the original) by Therese Hamilton 16 August 2009 To study signs I believe we have to go back to the dawn of astrology in Mesopotamia and Hellenistic times. Three important concepts come from Mesopotamia: (1) A 12 sign zodiac of 30 degree signs with sign boundaries marked by various stars. (There is no record of a zodiac marked by Aldebaran/Antares.) (2) The exaltation (secret places) constellations (not signs) of the planets (3) The sign trigons where each trigon was considered a distinct entity of three signs linked to one of the four winds. Astrology today still has the same 12 sign zodiac, and the Greeks adopted the planetary " secret houses " and fit them to the zodiac signs. Sign trigons (triplicities) have always been recognized through the centuries. It can probably be said that a debt we owe to tropical astrology is the recognition of the distinct " energies " of the trigons (so-called fire, earth, air and water). Hellenistic astrology also added the category of diurnal (of the solar sect) and nocturnal (of the lunar sect) signs which today we call masculine and feminine signs. It doesn't matter what sign names we give to these tones or energies. The energy seems to belong to unique divisions of the ecliptic. These energies are harmonic in nature, and as yet we don't know what astronomical factor is the initiation point of harmonics. We can only observe that what seem to be harmonics exist. I've discussed these trigons in the sidereal zodiac on my web site http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm So will only discuss Scorpio here. Scorpio belongs to the emotionally expressive, outwardly focused sidereal Cancer trigon. In Hellenistic times this trigon was said to come under the rulership of nocturnal Mars and Venus. Lilly gave this trigon to Mars alone. Right off the bat we can see that Mars is not a suitable ruler for quieter, more inner directed tropical Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces, but would much better fit tropical " fire " signs. These " fiery " signs are in the ecliptic area of the sidereal nocturnal Cancer trigon, suitably ruled by Mars. So the first theoretical concept on which to build Scorpio characteristics is the unique energy of its trigon (which incorporates the diurnal/nocturnal divisions). In Scorpio we'd have the most blatant expression of the energy of this trigon since Scorpio's traditional lord is Mars. In Hellenistic times Mars was said to be more like itself in Scorpio, its own nocturnal sign rather than Aries, a diurnal sign belonging to the Sun-Jupiter trigon. So the second theoretical concept for Scorpio would be the characteristics of the Greek Ares/Roman Mars. Yes, relating signs to western deities does restrict their meanings, but astrology as we know it today is built on a solidly western foundation. This western foundation is also the basis of the Jyotish zodiac. In Hellenistic times each sign was said to be " the star of " one of the Greek deities. The God acted as sort of a protector of the sign. So here I'm giving a very much abridged list of concepts for Scorpio, espescially as related to the Greek Ares. CANCER TRIGON WITH SOME ARES/MARS: emotionally expressive, out-going energy; Likes exchange and repartee. May tend to instigate arguments and " rock the boat " for attention or just for the love of interaction with others. This love of energy exchange can be expressed in athletic competition. Scorpio likes didactic exchange. GREEK ARES/ROMAN MARS: Freedom loving, wants to go its own way. (Ares was something of a rebellious outcast among the Gods, and was not liked for this reason.) Tends to be ceaselessly active: Ares was happy in the thick of battle, not one to sit around thinking and reading. Direct and quick: possible " foot in mouth " disease (The God of war wasn't into empathy, preferred jumping into any battle at hand.) Others can feel a strong psychic energy from this sign (The fiery action-oriented energy of Ares/Mars.) Planets in this sign may coerce others through its strong energy. Acts first, thinks later (Mars action-energy) Thus can be heedless and insensitive. Scorpio can be linked to crime and bloodshed (Ares was not favored on Olympus because of his fierceness and love of battle.) Scorpio can be linked to athletics, again due to the rulership of Ares/Mars who was primarily a physically active god. Body part: external genitals (sexual area) Group Involvement: Ares/Mars typically operated in the midst of an army. An army is a group of people with a single goal, and Scorpio can relate to group endeavors of any kind. It can be an excellent sign for political endeavors and activism, for (in theory) it can relate to the mobilization of group energy. The group may be a classroom of students with Scorpio taking the teaching role, the local football or baseball team, an activist group fighting for civil rights, or even the family when it operates as a unified whole. (Incidently, this places group activity in the 8th house rather than the 11th.) The strongly Scorpio individual may find himself working with different groups of people for social, humane or religious causes. The above encompasses the main points of my beginning theory. The next step was to search ADB for charts with stelliums in Scorpio. There will be a second post on timed Scorpio horoscopes (A and AA Rodden ratings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I liked your discription of Scorpio, since that is my ascendant in Sidereal Astrology, which I learned about from Jyotish. The aggravating thing is when Saturn, moving retrograde, is with the ascendant, in Scorpio, it can be really aggravating. Talk about frustration! liberator_9 --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: Therese Hamilton <eastwest Sidereal Scorpio--Part 1 Monday, August 17, 2009, 2:52 PM SIDEREAL SIGNS: SCORPIO GENERAL INTRODUCTION TO SIGNS (Second draft, much abridged from the original) by Therese Hamilton 16 August 2009 To study signs I believe we have to go back to the dawn of astrology in Mesopotamia and Hellenistic times. Three important concepts come from Mesopotamia: (1) A 12 sign zodiac of 30 degree signs with sign boundaries marked by various stars. (There is no record of a zodiac marked by Aldebaran/Antares. ) (2) The exaltation (secret places) constellations (not signs) of the planets (3) The sign trigons where each trigon was considered a distinct entity of three signs linked to one of the four winds. Astrology today still has the same 12 sign zodiac, and the Greeks adopted the planetary " secret houses " and fit them to the zodiac signs. Sign trigons (triplicities) have always been recognized through the centuries. It can probably be said that a debt we owe to tropical astrology is the recognition of the distinct " energies " of the trigons (so-called fire, earth, air and water). Hellenistic astrology also added the category of diurnal (of the solar sect) and nocturnal (of the lunar sect) signs which today we call masculine and feminine signs. It doesn't matter what sign names we give to these tones or energies. The energy seems to belong to unique divisions of the ecliptic. These energies are harmonic in nature, and as yet we don't know what astronomical factor is the initiation point of harmonics. We can only observe that what seem to be harmonics exist. I've discussed these trigons in the sidereal zodiac on my web site http://www.snowcres t.net/sunrise/ LostZodiac. htm So will only discuss Scorpio here. Scorpio belongs to the emotionally expressive, outwardly focused sidereal Cancer trigon. In Hellenistic times this trigon was said to come under the rulership of nocturnal Mars and Venus. Lilly gave this trigon to Mars alone. Right off the bat we can see that Mars is not a suitable ruler for quieter, more inner directed tropical Cancer-Scorpio- Pisces, but would much better fit tropical " fire " signs. These " fiery " signs are in the ecliptic area of the sidereal nocturnal Cancer trigon, suitably ruled by Mars. So the first theoretical concept on which to build Scorpio characteristics is the unique energy of its trigon (which incorporates the diurnal/nocturnal divisions). In Scorpio we'd have the most blatant expression of the energy of this trigon since Scorpio's traditional lord is Mars. In Hellenistic times Mars was said to be more like itself in Scorpio, its own nocturnal sign rather than Aries, a diurnal sign belonging to the Sun-Jupiter trigon. So the second theoretical concept for Scorpio would be the characteristics of the Greek Ares/Roman Mars. Yes, relating signs to western deities does restrict their meanings, but astrology as we know it today is built on a solidly western foundation. This western foundation is also the basis of the Jyotish zodiac. In Hellenistic times each sign was said to be " the star of " one of the Greek deities. The God acted as sort of a protector of the sign. So here I'm giving a very much abridged list of concepts for Scorpio, espescially as related to the Greek Ares. CANCER TRIGON WITH SOME ARES/MARS: emotionally expressive, out-going energy; Likes exchange and repartee. May tend to instigate arguments and " rock the boat " for attention or just for the love of interaction with others. This love of energy exchange can be expressed in athletic competition. Scorpio likes didactic exchange. GREEK ARES/ROMAN MARS: Freedom loving, wants to go its own way. (Ares was something of a rebellious outcast among the Gods, and was not liked for this reason.) Tends to be ceaselessly active: Ares was happy in the thick of battle, not one to sit around thinking and reading. Direct and quick: possible " foot in mouth " disease (The God of war wasn't into empathy, preferred jumping into any battle at hand.) Others can feel a strong psychic energy from this sign (The fiery action-oriented energy of Ares/Mars.) Planets in this sign may coerce others through its strong energy. Acts first, thinks later (Mars action-energy) Thus can be heedless and insensitive. Scorpio can be linked to crime and bloodshed (Ares was not favored on Olympus because of his fierceness and love of battle.) Scorpio can be linked to athletics, again due to the rulership of Ares/Mars who was primarily a physically active god. Body part: external genitals (sexual area) Group Involvement: Ares/Mars typically operated in the midst of an army. An army is a group of people with a single goal, and Scorpio can relate to group endeavors of any kind. It can be an excellent sign for political endeavors and activism, for (in theory) it can relate to the mobilization of group energy. The group may be a classroom of students with Scorpio taking the teaching role, the local football or baseball team, an activist group fighting for civil rights, or even the family when it operates as a unified whole. (Incidently, this places group activity in the 8th house rather than the 11th.) The strongly Scorpio individual may find himself working with different groups of people for social, humane or religious causes. The above encompasses the main points of my beginning theory. The next step was to search ADB for charts with stelliums in Scorpio. There will be a second post on timed Scorpio horoscopes (A and AA Rodden ratings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 At 11:24 AM 8/18/2009 -0700, liberator_9 wrote: >I liked your discription of Scorpio, since that is my ascendant in >Sidereal Astrology, which I learned about from Jyotish. The aggravating >thing is when Saturn, moving retrograde, is with the ascendant, in >Scorpio, it can be really aggravating. Talk about frustration! It makes sense that a restrictive planet like Saturn wouldn't be happy in an active Mars-ruled sign. But I'm not sure how important an ascendant sign is without considering the ruler and its aspects.Of course transits to the ascendant sign would be important. In Jyotish the ascendant is mainly used as a reference for the lord of the sign. (In Hellenistic astrology, it's called the domicile lord of the ascendant, and it works the same way.) I just collected all the Aquarius stelliums in ADB. They are totally different than Scorpio, which at least illustrates that signs really are different from each other. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Aspects to planets in the ascendant sigbn can be important, too, especially if the aspect is close by degree of longitude. This is probably because they are at kendras (angular houses). As it is, I have Mercury (which exchanges signs with Venus, and the Sun is hemmed in between them) opposing Saturn. It gave me severe communication difficulties. There is more to it than this, but for brevity's sake, and not wanting to make this whole thread to be about me, I'll leave at this. liberator_9 --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: Therese Hamilton <eastwest Re: Sidereal Scorpio--Part 1 Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 2:40 PM At 11:24 AM 8/18/2009 -0700, liberator_9 wrote: >I liked your discription of Scorpio, since that is my ascendant in >Sidereal Astrology, which I learned about from Jyotish. The aggravating >thing is when Saturn, moving retrograde, is with the ascendant, in >Scorpio, it can be really aggravating. Talk about frustration! ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - It makes sense that a restrictive planet like Saturn wouldn't be happy in an active Mars-ruled sign. But I'm not sure how important an ascendant sign is without considering the ruler and its aspects.Of course transits to the ascendant sign would be important. In Jyotish the ascendant is mainly used as a reference for the lord of the sign. (In Hellenistic astrology, it's called the domicile lord of the ascendant, and it works the same way.) I just collected all the Aquarius stelliums in ADB. They are totally different than Scorpio, which at least illustrates that signs really are different from each other. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 At 01:07 PM 8/18/2009 -0700, Stephen wrote: >Aspects to planets in the ascendant sign can be important, too, especially >if the aspect is close by degree of longitude. This is probably because >they are at kendras (angular houses). As it is, I have Mercury (which >exchanges signs with Venus, and the Sun is hemmed in between them) >opposing Saturn. It gave me severe communication difficulties. There is >more to it than this, but for brevity's sake, and not wanting to make this >whole thread to be about me, I'll leave at this. Stephen, astrology is all about individuals, isn't it?! Would you like to post your birth data or send it to me privately? I'm always interested in any birth chart where the person can give some life details. Thanks, Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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